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On the Story

Implications of London Terrorist Attacks Examined. Supreme Court Nominee Confirmation Process Moves Forward. Condoleeza Rice Visits Sudan. The Search for Peace in Iraq.

Aired July 23, 2005 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening. I'm Carol Lin at the CNN center in Atlanta with the stories making news right now.
At least 83 people were killed in a series of bombings at Egypt's Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh. Suicide bombers attacked a resort hotel at the popular night spot and a third bomb exploded near a beach. More than 200 people were injured.

London police have identified the man they shot and killed yesterday as a 27-year old Brazilian. They now say he was not connected to this week?s attempted transit bombings. The police say they regret the shooting.

The countdown for next week's planned launch of the space shuttle began today. Discovery?s lift off is set for 10:39 Tuesday morning. The seven-member crew is at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida making final flight preparations. July 13th's launch was delayed when a fuel sensor went off.

Lance Armstrong has increased his lead in the Tour de France. He is more than four-and-a-half minutes ahead of his nearest competitor. He seems all but assured of a seventh consecutive victory when the race ends tomorrow.

That's what's happening right now in the news. I'm Carol Lin. Now to ON THE STORY.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR, ON THE STORY: This is CNN and we are ON THE STORY. From the campus of George Washington University, the center of the nation's capital, our correspondents have the story behind the stories they're covering. Christiane Amanpour is on the story in London. New terrorists, new anxiety.

Kelli Arena is on the story of the investigation, England, southern Asia, the United States.

Suzanne Malveaux is on the story of President Bush's surprise this week, this nominee for the Supreme Court.

Ed Henry marches (ph) the story of Capitol Hill, the Senate confirmation battle ahead.

Andrea Koppel is on the road on the story of famine and death in Darfur.

And Baghdad producer Kianne Sadeq is on the story of life in Baghdad, families finding peace in the midst of war.

Welcome. I'm Kyra Phillips. Now straight to this week's London terror attacks and a look inside Christiane Amanpour's notebook.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When I first heard that there had been an incident on the London tube and on a bus again, I thought, how could this be possible? London had been warned that there would be potentially more attacks, but twice in two weeks.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICEMAN: We know that we have four explosions, four attempted explosions and it's still pretty unclear as to what's happened.

AMANPOUR: A lot of us glean a lot about what we can from all the 24 hour networks, the radios, the British radio and television system, small, eyewitness reports coming in from various different sources as we try to sift through what's going on.

As a civilian, I would say that you know, twice in two weeks, it's going to shatter peoples' confidence and nerves.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) I get a bus everyday. I take a bus to work today and I was going to take a bus home. I'm (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's quite a shock (INAUDIBLE) can happen on your doorstep is quite scary.

AMANPOUR: We wondered, I wondered, what had been going on for the last two weeks with this heightened police presence, with the surveillance at its maximum, with attention on the subways and on the bus system at its maximum, how could these perpetrators have slipped through that net?

PHILLIPS: Christiane now joins us live from London. Christiane, we have a number of questions for you from the audience. We're going to start with Rachel. Go ahead.

QUESTION: Hi, I'm Rachel Kramer from Palmer, Alaska. How have the recent terrorist attacks on London changed the British view of the war on terrorism?

AMANPOUR: Well, you know, it's not really the war on terrorism that they're really thinking about. Basically the police here and the intelligence services are getting a lot of cooperation from other intelligence services around the world, particularly America, other European nations. I think though it's beginning to ask questions about the war in Iraq. And there have been a lot of questions to Prime Minister Blair now and he's increasingly on the defensive about the war on Iraq because there's been a very influential study coming out that has said that the Iraq war and Britain's support of it has put this country more at risk. The prime minister doesn't accept that premise, but two thirds of the British people think that they are more at risk because of the Iraq war, even people who support the war. Of course many don't here. But even those who do believe that it's simply a truism, simply obvious that that is making them more vulnerable to attack. PHILLIPS: Christiane, just following up on that question though, is the British public ready for some changes in the law like we saw here in the United States with the Patriot Act?

AMANPOUR: You know, I don't think the British public will be as ready as apparently the American public have been in some of the very severe laws that have been enacted after 9/11 and there isn't that kind of talk of that happening here. But there are changes planned and there are things like deportations that the prime minister is looking into, that also having strike some kind of balance that many governments have to in terms of trying to protect civil liberties, while at the same time trying to protect people's safety. And I'll tell you, the shooting this week in Stockwell on the tube station has raised a lot of questions because the police are not saying that that person who was shot was a bomber on the subways this week. And so there's a lot of questions about how that happened, how a man was shot to death on the subway.

PHILLIPS: Christiane, another question from the audience. Tell us your name and your question.

QUESTION: Hi. My name is (INAUDIBLE) and I'm from (INAUDIBLE) Louisiana. How have the U.S./British relations been affected as a result of the terrorist attacks?

AMANPOUR: Well, it's not really a question of U.S./British relations. That's not been a subject of conversation here because that's a given. The U.S./British relations are strong. Government to government, they work very closely. The intelligence services as I said are working closely on these matters and as you know, Prime Minister Blair and President Bush have a close relationship and the president has spoken out each time there's been these bombings here in London, first on July 7th and then again this week. And that's not really been an issue.

ED HENRY, CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Christiane, can you talk a little bit about how the prime minister has dealt with it. 9/11 obviously was a defining moment for the U.S. president. How has the prime minister reacted? While the attacks have not reached the magnitude of 9/11, how has he reacted with all of this and how has he handled it?

AMANPOUR: Well, it's interesting, because you know, the prime minister was sort of on his back foot after the recent election. He won by a much smaller majority and there was a lot of talk about maybe he wouldn't even serve out his historic third term. But the last couple of weeks were a big high for the prime minister. There was live 8 and the G-8, which was a big success for the prime minister. There was the Olympic bid. There was a big success. So he was really coming up again in sort of stature and finding his strike again. Then, when the first round of bombings struck on July 7th, he sort of filled the role very well. He addressed the nation. He had that mix of defiance, but also concern, resolve. It was sort of Churchillian moment for the people of England, because they really stood up and had resolve, but also for the prime minister. But the second round has sort of put him on the defensive again, because people have started asking much more this time about Iraq. They've tried to press him on doesn't he think that his support for Iraq, the bad news that is coming out of Iraq all the time, the fact that 8,000 Iraqi civilians were killed over the last 10 months. These kinds of questions that are now being asked much more of the prime minister and he's been put on the defensive slightly.

PHILLIPS: Christiane, the mayor of New York City, Mayor Bloomberg said that this attack was going to result in really a greater sense of security for the rail systems (ph) to the United States, checking bags, random type of checking and there are a lot of people who are concerned that it would be a violation of civil liberties, that perhaps that it would even lead to racial profiling. Is there a sense of sensitivity in the community there in London that perhaps that's what would happen there as well?

AMANPOUR: Well, there is a sensitivity. Remember though London has been used to these kinds of heightened police activities because of all the decades of the IRA bombings. However, this is causing some worry. Many people say they understand why that might be necessary. Others of course, mostly in the Moslem community, are worried, because especially with the shooting of the man on the Stockwell tube station, that prompted a flood of concerned calls from the Moslem community asking their leaders, is there now a shoot to kill policy against people who look Moslem or who look as if they're from India or Pakistan or the Arab world or wherever the main suspects are from. So that is causing some concern for sure and I think the police are going to have to answer a lot of questions about that.

PHILLIPS: Christiane Amanpour, on the story in London. Stay with us Christiane. We've got a lot more ahead. The terror investigation stretches from London around the world with leads here in the United States as well. CNN justice correspondent Kelli Arena is back on the story right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: CNN's on the story here in Washington. Our Kelli Arena is on the story of the terrorism investigation in the aftermath of the latest wave of terror bombings in London. Check out Kelli's reporter's notebook.

KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I've got threads (ph) leading from New York to South Africa, to London, to (INAUDIBLE) it's trying to keep, first of all keeping everywhere (ph) in the loop and that's what I'm trying to do right now because we have an awful lot of people who are working the story from various parts of the world.

(INAUDIBLE) come up all the time and investigators follow certain threads and sometimes those lead somewhere and sometimes they don't.

Sources close to the investigation say that British authorities believe that Aswat may have provided some type of support to the bombers who carried out the July 7th attacks. Source development is a very tricky thing. It's about trust. It's about people being able to trust me with the information and me being able to trust that they're giving me good guidance and good info. Terrorism unfortunately is a story that's not going away and London seems to be it right now. You know, there's an adrenaline rush. There's nothing that I like more than getting it first, getting it right. Maybe, I like that first, getting it right, getting it first.

PHILLIPS: Kelli Arena joins us now here in Washington and of course Kelli, you talked about building your sources and putting it altogether. But you do have a secret weapon. Tell everybody here, you may work the sources, but who is it that helps you keep it all in order?

ARENA: Kevin Bond (ph). He's my producer.

AMANPOUR: Kelli, it's Christiane in London. I was wondering whether the American intelligence and American police investigators have the same kind of CCTV capability as London. I think we've been amazed here that so quickly, photos of the bombers on July 7th and the would be bombers of this week have been shown on television and their images there for the police to go and hunt down.

ARENA: Well, I can tell you they wish they did. It has been a very useful tool in London and able to quickly identify and to do the (INAUDIBLE) not the prevention, but the prosecutorial after work that happens after an attack. There are some cameras as you know, Christiane, we have some at traffic intersections, obviously in workplaces and in public shopping malls, but not to the extent at all that they have in London. There has been some discussion about that, but it doesn't seem to be any real momentum toward that end.

PHILLIPS: Kelli, we've got another question from the audience. Go ahead. Stand up. Tell us your name and your question for Kelli.

QUESTION: Hi. I'm David. I'm from Syracuse, New York. And I was just wondering, how significant do you think it is that the recent London bombings were carried out by British citizens?

ARENA: That is very significant and many of the experts that we have spoken to said you really have to (INAUDIBLE) this is different, because this is home grown terrorism. These, the young men that were involved in that first bombing were by all accounts, very assimilated into the society. They were very westernized. They (INAUDIBLE) no one that had anything to do with them (INAUDIBLE) teachers, neighbors, family, had an idea that they would (INAUDIBLE) could even think of such an act. It is something that the FBI director, the attorney general here has said that is a very real concern, that al Qaeda or related groups might try to recruit people who are U.S. citizens, who wouldn't run into the same restrictions, travel restrictions, paperwork restrictions that foreigners run into. So very real concern, very dramatic difference.

PHILLIPS: Thanks Kelli. We're going to leave the terrorism beat now. Our thanks to Christiane Amanpour in London. We're going to see you back on the story in the coming weeks Christiane. And here in Washington this week, the big political story and a presidential surprise as he names his choice for the Supreme Court. Suzanne Malveaux is back on that story in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: We're ON THE STORY here in the campus of the George Washington University, just a few blocks from the White House where President Bush named Judge John Roberts to the Supreme Court and where Suzanne Malveaux spent a long, long day on Tuesday. Let's take a look at her reporter's notebook.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I got a tip fairly early on from somebody who's inside the White House who simply said, just put on your best suit. It's going to be a really long day. We have this press conference and the President was very coy.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm trying to figure out what else I can say that I didn't say yesterday that sounds profound to you without actually answering your question.

MALVEAUX: We all knew at that point it was probably going to happen. We saw Scott McClellan come out into the briefing room, said the briefing had been canceled, eventually that the president (ph) was going to be making this announcement at 9:00. I was on the phone, doing my red phone as you know, alerting the network, taking notes and then of course we had (INAUDIBLE) So at that point, once we knew there was going to be an announcement, all of the pressure was essentially find out who is was. My source had essentially said it's either going to be Priscilla Owen or John Roberts. Heading up to the briefing, when as soon as I got to the briefing, my cell phone was vibrating. I picked it up. I got confirmation from my source I'd been talking to all day that in fact John Roberts was the pick.

BUSH: I look forward to the Senate voting to confirm Judge John Roberts as the 109th justice of the Supreme Court of the United States.

PHILLIPS: OK, now I remember when we were planning for our show in the afternoon and all of us received Suzanne?' e-mail and it was exactly where your best suit. And we all just started laughing. We thought this is great.

MALVEAUX: Well, you know, it's funny because it's a source that's inside of the White House and we have this kind of code I guess if you will and if there's something significant that's going to happen, he always says it's suit and tie day. And it's not as sexy as the flower pots over here, move it to the other side, but that's what we used.

PHILLIPS: I guess the eagle has landed. (INAUDIBLE)

MALVEAUX: That's usually what gives me a pretty good sense, but you know, I mean that day started the day like many of us in my pajamas at home, making calls. We were exchanging e-mails I know. Ed, you were getting some tips early on, the night before I was getting buzz from one of my sources again that it was going to happen fairly soon and the president was being, as you know, very coy about it. For a couple of days, he did not acknowledge even made fun of us that oh, you guys think you know what's going on and I might not be that close. But then everything really did start to come together.

PHILLIPS: Weren't you both hearing things from the state dinner the night before also?

HENRY: Yes, Suzanne got the tip there.

MALVEAUX: I actually was (INAUDIBLE) a source who went to the state dinner. There was a state dinner the president had at the White House and Justice Clarence Thomas was in attendance with his wife and there was a source there who said oh yeah, you know, I heard Bush tell Justice Thomas, don't you wish you knew who I picked, that kind of thing and it was (INAUDIBLE) they said he was very proud of himself, very happy, they had a real sense that he had already selected someone that night.

PHILLIPS: We've got a question from the audience. Tell us your name and the question for Suzanne.

QUESTION: Adrian Thompson from (INAUDIBLE) Michigan. The recent announcement, many journalists have been trying to dig into his past to find a story. How do you go about finding a unique slant for your (INAUDIBLE).

MALVEAUX: Well, I think what we're all doing at this point and Ed is much a part of this as I am and said, we're all looking very extensively at his record. We also too maybe have to realize that there are Democrats, Republicans, the White House, everybody who's very much involved, very entrenched in the process. We've been digging up his records for the last year or so. So there's a whole operation of people that have been ready to go basically to either support him or to disparage him in some way. So it's actually not a difficult thing, got a lot of information about him.

PHILLIPS: A lot of people were saying and we were talking about this early on, the whole Karl Rove controversy and wondering why the president was being so secretive about this and then the irony was?

HENRY: They kept the secret about the name, that it was John Roberts so well and for weeks we've been talking about the CIA leak story and Karl Rove and whether he was involved and the White House has been on the defensive and then here's a story where this White House can keep a secret when it wants to and it clearly did in this case. I mean I had very senior Republicans on the hill, top senators, who had the president's ear and within up to about an hour before the president told the whole nation the name, they did not know the name. And reporters wouldn't believe it. We were chasing him down hallways. Chairman Specter of the Judiciary Committee, come on, you have to know. You have to know.

When he finally learned actually, Arlen Specter, he got a call in the cloakroom saying that it was going to be Amy Card (ph) from the White House chief of staff was calling him. He'd pick up the phone and it was a strange voice looking for Specter's wife and he said, no. this is Arlen Specter and it turned out it was the president pretending he was Amy Card and joking with Specter and then he finally gave him the name in the secrecy of the Republican cloakroom. And that's where the Senate Judiciary chairman, who you're going to see on TV, who's running the show, he found out about an hour before the rest of the nation did.

So this White House did a fascinating, really good job of stage managing this and rolling it out. And then of course, when John Roberts was finally after all the secrecy introduced to the nation, I mean the flags were out and he was ready and I think that they rolled it out at the White House and on the hill very well.

PHILLIPS: Why do you think they wanted to do that? Americans sort of thought, why is he trying to throw us off?

MALVEAUX: Well, there certainly was a point where the White House was concerned that we weren't getting ahead of them, that essentially that we were going to scoop the president in his own news. They didn't want that to happen. And we realized?

PHILLIPS: (INAUDIBLE) sort list (INAUDIBLE)

MALVEAUX: That's right and as a matter of fact, I mean, one person I was talking to, a Supreme Court source and a congressional source, they were saying the same thing pretty early on. They were trying to read the tea leaves, but one thing that happened is that it was much easier to cross off the names of people on the list as opposed to say definitively, this is going to be the pick. So every hour on the phone with somebody who said hey, you know, I'm in communications with the White House officials in these discussions. It's not this person. It's not that person. It's not that person. And then eventually we got down to the two names and then to the one name. So?

PHILLIPS: Did you actually have your little spread sheet, that basically -- because all these little (INAUDIBLE)

MALVEAUX: (INAUDIBLE) looks like the napkins on your desk.

PHILLIPS: Right, my little?

MALVEAUX: One of my producers, Terry Friedman (ph) was at something totally unrelated on Jose Cadillo (ph) and saw Judge Ludwig (ph) and his family was in the front row of the courthouse and they were all (INAUDIBLE) the kids were there. His wife was there. Everybody was dressed up and Terry's like (INAUDIBLE) maybe they're on their way to the White House. Maybe he's the nominee and so yes, but he had called in and said, you know, hey guys, you need to know this. The judge and his whole family, they're all dressed up. Maybe this is a signal.

HENRY: Another tea leaf we got was the night before the actual announcement. My producer, Laura Bernadini (ph) was at a softball game with Arlen Specter's office. He was working on a profile on Senator Specter and all of a sudden, he didn't show up. We're wondering what's going on and it turned out he had been secretly called over to the White House on Monday night. That was first word we got that this story was about to break. And so here's Arlen Specter trying to go to the softball, initially told the White House, no, I've got this commitment to play softball on the national mall with my staff and the White House said no, the president wants you. You better be here and he came over and that's when he first got the tip off that something was imminent. But the tea leave reading on this and it came down to a softball game, than for us to figure out something really was going on.

PHILLIPS: And he didn't want to leave the softball game.

HENRY: No. He actually went to the game after he met with the president for a long time about the nomination.

PHILLIPS: (INAUDIBLE) was everybody asking him, come on, give us the scoop?

HENRY: We were and I think the bottom line though is that even Arlen Specter (INAUDIBLE) this secrecy even though he went to the White House on Monday night. He didn't get a name. He just got a tip from the president that something is coming. I'm close. I want you to know about it. But Arlen Specter still didn't find out until Tuesday night, not Monday night.

PHILLIPS: All right. As you can see, the White House is just part of the equation. The battle over Judge Roberts moves quickly to Capitol Hill. Ed Henry's going to talk some more. He's back on that part of the story right after this and a quick check on what's making headlines right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. I'm Carol Lin. More of ON THE STORY in just a moment, but first a look at what's happening right now in the news.

London police say the man they shot and killed yesterday was a 27-year-old Brazilian citizen, but their investigation shows he was not connected to this week's attempted transit bombings. The police say they regret the shooting.

And the search continues in Sharm el-Sheik, Egypt, both for bodies and for clues into the three deadly explosions at the Egyptian resort. At least 83 people died in the blasts.

And Nevada authorities have issued an Amber Alert for a missing 8-year-old girl. Lydia Bethany-Rose Rupp was taken from her home in Fernley, Nevada at around noon on Friday. The suspect's name is Fernando Aguerro. They may be traveling toward Reno or San Diego in a blue or a silver blue Kia Rio with no license plates.

Bill Clinton apologized today for not doing enough to stop Rwandan genocide while he was president. Bill Clinton laid a wreath at the Genocide Memorial, and he expressed regret for what he called his personal failure for not acting to stop the 1994 killing of 800,000 people.

That's what's happening right now in the news. I'm Carol Lin. Now back to ON THE STORY.

PHILLIPS: CNN's ON THE STORY of this summer's big political battle over President Bush's choice to join the Supreme Court. Congressional correspondent Ed Henry watched as Judge John Roberts made the rounds on CAPITOL HILL. Here's Ed's notebook.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Every time a senator popped up in the hallway, you'd see this crush of reporters, crush of cameras, run up, trying to get him.

We've spent the last few weeks talking about the story of the White House, the CIA leak case, all about a leak, and in this case, the White House can keep a secret. They can actually keep this under wraps.

It's been less than 24 hours, but John Roberts has already racked up key endorsements from pivotal senators. It may not be a cakewalk, but it's close.

They were telling me privately it was a home run. They wouldn't say that on camera, but the point is, there is this quiet confidence Republican senators had. This guy is going to be a home run. He's going to get through easily.

SEN. BILL FRIST (R-TN), MAJORITY LEADER: He's the best of the best, a legal mind in America.

HENRY: They feel like the president just knocked this out of the park, and even top Democrats are falling all over themselves with praise, suggesting there's not going to be a filibuster.

I spoke to Arlen Specter, the Senate Judiciary chairman. He's been nine of these confirmation battles for the Supreme Court. He says the one thing that dominates them all is a surprise. There is always a surprise, and it often becomes rock'em, sock'em, something you're not expecting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Two great lines from you. Cakewalk what? What was that?

HENRY: It's not a cakewalk, but it's close.

PHILLIPS: And a rock'em, sock'em.

HENRY: Rock'em, sock'em. I have to give credit to Senator Specter. He talked about the Bork hearings, the Clarence Thomas hearings. Everybody right now is saying, this is a slam dunk, this guy is going to get through easily, and Arlen Specter points out, a lot of these hearings, something comes out of nowhere and changes the whole dynamic. So don't count your chickens just yet.

PHILLIPS: It's interesting. OK. We've got a question in the audience. Tell us your name and your question for Ed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, my name is Jonathan (ph), I'm from Agora Hills, California. And Ed, I'd like to know a little bit about the dynamics within the bipartisan gang of 14 senators on Capitol Hill. Do you think they will be able to prevent a filibuster of nominee?

HENRY: I think that they are going to help. And in fact, the gang of 14, these are these moderates who prevented a nuclear showdown about a month ago on lower court judges, and I think what they did already was sort of change the atmosphere. I mean literally, the Senate majority leader's finger was on the nuclear trigger. He was about to change the Senate rules in a dramatic way to end the use of filibusters on judicial nominations. That was averted by this gang of moderates, as they call themselves, and in fact, I think they've changed it, it's a little less poisonous, and I think in fact it led the president to consult more.

I think Suzanne saw this, where the president has been criticized previously on other issues of not reaching out to Capitol Hill enough. People on Capitol Hill are almost avoiding the president's calls at this point. I mean, they're getting voice mails from the president, multiple calls, calls from the White House chief of staff. I mean, the consultation -- even Robert Byrd, one of the president's fiercest critics, a Democrat, said that he's been thrilled with the amount of consultation from the president on this nomination, leading up to it and now, and I think that has to do in part with the gang of 14.

And one other quick thing is that they've created a lot of jealousy. A Republican, Chuck Hagel, senator, said a couple of days ago that they're basically getting all the attention, and when a reporter asked him about, well, they're now saying that they're not going to -- there's not going to be a filibuster, he said, oh, the nation's secure now.

I think the other senators are getting a little bit annoyed that the gang of 14 is sort of dominating the debate a bit. In fact, Arlen Specter, when I asked him about the gang of 14, said, you remember that old ad, EF Hutton, you know, "when EF Hutton talks, people listen?"

PHILLIPS: People listen.

HENRY: And Specter said with kind of a wry smile, "whenever the gang of 14 talks, EF Hutton and I listen." And I think some of the other 86 senators are a little bit tired of all the attention they've gotten.

PHILLIPS: Another question from the audience. Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, I'm Drew (ph). I'm from Fairbanks, Alaska. If Supreme Court justice nominee John Roberts publicly opposes Roe v. Wade, how do you think that will affect the Senate's vote on his appointment?

HENRY: Well, interesting, one moderate Republican, Susan Collins of Maine, already told us this week that she feels secure in the fact that John Roberts in 2003, when he was up for a lower court nomination, said that he believes Roe v. Wade is settled law. And what that means, basically, is he would not be an activist trying to overturn Roe v. Wade.

But you're going to hear a lot of Democrats at these confirmation hearings that will start after Labor Day, trying to press him, because when you're on a lower court, basically, you're not really making the laws. You don't have as much power as you do on the Supreme Court, as one of only nine Supreme Court justices. And you're going to see Democrats pressing him hard, saying, you said that in '03 that you wouldn't overturn Roe v. Wade, but now that you're going to be on the court, are you going to try to push to overturn it? Now that the president is sort of tilting the balance of the high court.

I think the bottom line is, that John Roberts is going to try to avoid that question, or say as little as possible.

PHILLIPS: There is a controversy over what he said in the past and what he said recently, the last confirmation hearing that he sort of ducked the question of I'm going to state -- the decision has been made, I'm going to stick with that.

HENRY: In fact, look for this. There will be Democrats criticizing him on abortion, but you're going to see even more conservative Republicans going after him because of what Kyra mentioned. Sam Brownback is one of the people, a Republican senator, potentially running for president, reaches out to social conservatives a lot. He's been making some noise that he's concerned that John Roberts has been too vague on where he is on abortion, not too -- not conservative enough. And I think the fear among conservatives is that he's going to be another David Souter, who got to the high court by the first President Bush, and then got more and more left on the Supreme Court.

PHILLIPS: Ed Henry, thank you.

From politics back home to life and death struggles in Africa. Our Andrea Koppel is back ON THE STORY of her clash with secret police in Sudan, and her travels with Secretary of State Rice to a Darfur refugee camp.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: CNN reporters travel the world. A remarkable week for Andrea Koppel this week in Africa. She clashed with security guards in Sudan, she saw the plight of refugees in the troubled region of Darfur, and accompanied Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on her travels. Let's open Andrea's notebook.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): American reporters and members of Secretary of State Rice's own entourage clash with Sudan's secret police. They wanted to keep us out of a meeting between Rice and Sudan's president. We wanted to get in. (on camera): We've been trying to get in for the last half an hour, and for some reason, (INAUDIBLE).

(voice-over): Finally, after trying to ask President Omar al- Bashir a question about ongoing violence in Darfur, an American journalist was manhandled off camera.

(on camera): Now we have to leave.

(voice-over): In an unusual move, Rice vented, telling us she was furious.

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: It was outrageous.

KOPPEL (on camera): It is now quarter of 10:00, and we're already sweaty, and we haven't even gotten to the Abu Shouk refugee camp.

These women just told me that they know of at least 70 cases of women in (INAUDIBLE) who have been raped.

With all due respect, Madam Secretary, a year ago, your predecessor, Colin Powell, stood here and was promised that the violence in Sudan...

RICE: I said to the Sudanese government that they had a credibility problem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: I spoke to Andrea Koppel earlier from our bureau in Jerusalem. I asked her about those tense moments in Sudan.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: Well, the problem was, Kyra, we wanted to get in to see the president with Secretary Rice. No reporters, no American reporters had ever been allowed in when the secretary of state met President al-Bashir. And the problem was, I later found out that there were a bunch of secret police -- I initially thought they were just regular guards -- but they were secret police, and they were clearly under orders not to let us in.

Now, what I've since discovered, talking to other colleagues who spend a lot of time on the African continent is that it's not new. This is commonplace, for reporters to be roughed up. What was different this time was the fact that some of Secretary Rice's staff were also pushed around.

PHILLIPS: She was not happy about this, was she?

KOPPEL: She was furious. I had that handheld camera, and I think you could see her face. She was absolutely livid about this, and it was going -- it looked like it was going to escalate into quite a significant diplomatic incident. She demanded the apology, and during the hour-long flight that it took us to get from the capital to Darfur, she got a call from the Sudanese foreign minister apologizing.

PHILLIPS: What was it like to spend time with Condoleezza Rice, just aside from the professional part, but personally? What was it like spending time with her, and what did you learn about her? Obviously, you saw a lot more through her character and how she reacted when the reporters got roughed around.

KOPPEL: What I saw about Secretary Rice and what really struck me during this trip is that here you have the first African-American woman secretary of state, who for the first time is making a trip as secretary of state to the African continent. And especially in the refugee camp, where you had a number of women who said they had been raped, and Secretary Rice met with them. And there were all sorts of women around there, and I asked them, I said, "what do you think about the fact that you have an African-American secretary of state, who's visiting you?" And they said, "she's our sister." And you could feel the emotion.

Secretary Rice is normally a somewhat reserved woman. She's extremely poised. Everything is calibrated. I began to see her letting down her guard somewhat, and really saw her -- she was clearly touched by the children and by the women that she had spoken with, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Wow. Now, what about for you, Andrea, going through the refugee camps and meeting with the people? We've done so many stories on Sudan, but what was it like for you personally, just to be there and spend a lot of time with these folks?

KOPPEL: Well, I think the fact is, I didn't get to spend a lot of time with these folks, and you know, when you travel with the secretary of state or with the president and you're getting on buses and you're getting on planes and you've got photo opportunities, and you're rushing and you're running, you have to digest information very quickly, and oftentimes you're in a bubble and it's hard to break through.

It's been since I left the camp that it really struck me that I never got to go into any of the refugee homes. And what they had created there in Darfur for Secretary Rice -- and my understanding is it was the same thing for Secretary Powell a year ago -- was really a sort of a Potemkin refugee village. I mean, the refugee camp itself around there is the real thing, but we were ushered into an area that was surrounded by sort of like bamboo or some kind of fencing, and we were inside there, and you had some of the children who were in the kindergarten who were singing, and you had women who were making bread and who were making noodles outside, and you had others who were learning. But this was clearly one section of the camp.

I didn't get to speak with a lot of these women and men and children the way I would have liked to, especially because I don't speak Arabic, so I had to find someone who could do some translating for me, and you know, it was really touch-and-go.

So, Kyra, it was a really interesting experience that I got to see it, but quite frankly, I wish I had had more time there. (END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Elizabeth (ph), go ahead and stand up. You've got a question.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, hi, I'm Elizabeth (ph) from Bethesda, Maryland, and I wanted to know what was your reaction as a journalist during this Darfur incident?

MALVEAUX: You know what, hearing Andrea's story, it's very, very familiar, and it's not surprising, really, because it reminds me, I was just in the Middle East with the first lady and her trip, and we had some very tense, very scary moments in Jerusalem, when you had a lot of people, a lot of crowds, you had Israeli security that were trying to protect her, and at the same time, very aggressive, very aggressive. One of the Israeli soldiers drawn his gun on a little boy who was running towards the first lady.

When you're out of the bubble, or when you're in another country, sometimes what happens is they don't have as much control as they would like to in those kinds of situations, and that's what we found out with the first lady.

And you go overseas and you realize, you're just so thankful that there is a free press in this country, because you realize, so many situations are set up very choreographed, and many of these countries, their government officials do not allow you to get close to their leaders, do not allow you to ask those kinds of questions, and typically will bar you from an event. And it often is the U.S. officials that are trying to make that work, so you actually have access, you actually are able to ask a question.

PHILLIPS: Suzanne, thank you.

Well, from the Middle East to war and peace in Baghdad, the search for normal life amidst danger. Our CNN producer Kianne Sadeq is back on that story.

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PHILLIPS: We're ON THE STORY here in Washington, on the streets of Baghdad. Our producer there, Kianne Sadeq, was on the story of Iraqis trying to find peace and hope for their families in the midst of war. Take a look inside her notebook.

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KIANNE SADEQ, CNN PRODUCER (voice-over): Just outside this tunnel of blast walls, we reached a Baghdad heaven.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello.

SADEQ: The Alwiyah Club is a recreational club in Baghdad. They just go to this club on a daily basis to just have a good time.

We walked into a wedding and asked them to let us shoot their wedding. People were just being themselves. And when we spoke to the mother, she said to me, this is something they needed to do, for their children.

SANAA BAHRI, BRIDE'S MOTHER (through translator): We want the coming days to be happiness and joy. Enough war. Enough blood. Enough pain. We're tired. We're really tired. So, we bring pleasure to our children by these joyous events so that they look forward to the future with hope.

SADEQ: People have seen beautiful Baghdad turn into a war zone. They wanted to see Iraq be the beautiful Iraq that they love.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: And Kianne, we have a question for you straight from the audience. Tell us your name and your question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I'm Will Hawkins (ph) from Charlottesville, Virginia. And I was wondering what you considered to be your best technological asset when you're tracking down a breaking news story.

SADEQ: Our best asset is our camera, in terms of technology. You know, any kind of camera you have that will give you a picture of what's going on is your key, as a journalist in Iraq.

PHILLIPS: You know what, Kianne, what's amazing about you, though, is that you speak so many languages. This is your culture. You've been able to go inside Iraq and get the stories that we don't normally see. Tell us how you gained the trust of the Iraqis in a time where they don't always want to talk to Americans or soldiers or other reporters.

SADEQ: It's difficult. It's difficult, because the people in Iraq are always so scared or you know, so -- trying -- so reserved. They just want their own privacy, or they feel like if they stick to the -- you know, stick to each other and don't talk to outsiders, that no one will bother them. So we have to, you know, we have to barge into their homes, and we have to, you know, make them talk to us. And oftentimes, you know, we'll end up spending a day or two with them. And it ends up with hugs and kisses, because they actually, you know, open up to you and realize that you're -- you care about them and you want to know what, you know, you want to know their story, you want to know about them and be their friend.

PHILLIPS: Well, a lot has to do with how you are, also.

Got another question for you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, my name is Daniel (ph), I'm from Boston, Massachusetts. My question is, do you feel that reporters in Iraq get so caught up in the day-to-day violence that they have trouble reporting on the wider stories in the region?

SADEQ: It's -- yes, definitely. We are often trying to, you know, get away from the wire stories, but we're so busy with it. And so you have to, you know, make that time and schedule that day when you're not going to deal with today's violence -- someone else in the office will -- you're going to go out on a story. And that's, if you want to, and that's, you know it's your choice. But you have to schedule it and you have to put and effort and say, today, I'm going out, I'm going to talk to the people, I am going to do a story, and have someone else deal with the daily news, because that's so much and never ends anyway.

PHILLIPS: Tell us your name and your question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm Scott McFarland (ph) from Olney, Illinois. From your personal experience, do you feel Baghdad is becoming safer now, or it's becoming more of a haven for terrorists as it's gone along?

SADEQ: Of course, it's still a very dangerous place, Baghdad, and there's still lots of fear, different types of violence, different types of violence from every side, and so it's a very dangerous place, even for us. We have to put -- you know, we have to be very cautious in what we decide to do, but not only for us. Because we have our security, but for the Iraqis, who need to go to supermarkets, who need to go to restaurants, who need to breathe fresh air. It's still very dangerous, and they still have to assess where they can go and they can't go.

PHILLIPS: Kianne, thank you. We're back ON THE STORY right after this.

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PHILLIPS: Well, thanks to my colleagues and our audience here at the George Washington University, and thank you for watching ON THE STORY. We'll be back each week Saturday night, Sunday morning. Straight ahead, a check on what's making news right now.

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