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On the Story

CNN Correspondents Discuss Stories Behind the Stories

Aired July 30, 2005 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You're going to see ON THE STORY in just a moment, but first a look at what's happening right now in the news. NASA decided this afternoon to extend the Discovery mission by a day. Earlier, astronauts Steve Robinson and Soichi Noguchi tested a caulk repair kit. The repair kit was developed after damage to the tiles on the shuttle Columbia caused it to break apart in 2003.
Police in Italy fanned out today against possible terrorist attacks after Friday's arrest in Rome of a British man wanted in London. The man is one of four suspects or least a suspected terrorist, all now in custody from the failed attacks of July 21st. Italian officials held an extradition hearing today, but issued no decision.

In Aruba, the search of a pond is over. Authorities say there was no body and there were no clues. Alabama teen Natalee Holloway is still missing. The pond is close to a private club where suspects were seen the night Holloway disappeared.

And U.S. troops are getting an eviction notice. The government of Uzbekistan is telling the U.S. to leave a key military base known as K2. U.S. officials say given the tensions and deteriorating relations with the Uzbek government, they are not surprised. They are reassigning troops to bases in Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan.

That's what's happening right now in the news. I'm Carol Lin. Now, it's ON THE STORY.

JOE JOHNS, CNN ANCHOR, ON THE STORY: This is CNN and we are ON THE STORY. From the campus of the George Washington University in the center of the nation's capital, our correspondents have the stories behind the stories they're covering. Nic Robertson is on the story in Britain. The terrorist manhunt searches, arrests. John Zarrella is on the story of the shuttle, back in space, back with questions over safety and future flights. Dana Bash is on the story of the president's week, pushing his program and his man for the courts. Ed Henry looks at the rush by Congress toward its August recess, what gets left behind. Jamie McIntyre is on the story of new talk this week of pulling U.S. forces out of Iraq. And Deborah Feyerik is on the story of a religious camp that claims it can change gay teenagers.

Welcome. I'm Joe Johns. Our correspondents will be taking questions from the studio audience drawn from visitors, college students, the people across Washington. Now straight to London, the terror story and a look inside Nic Robertson's notebook.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: CNN has an office in London, called me up and I'm still asleep (INAUDIBLE). He said, we got this information. There are raids going on in Birmingham. Can you get some information about it? Can you do a beeper? And we got in a car, raced off to Birmingham.

Six days on the run ending here. The huge breakthrough came in a massive early morning raid, capturing Yasin Hassan Omar.

This is sort of a roller coaster ride, what happens when we get there, the whole team, the producers working together effectively with the camera crews and everyone sort of on the scene, running the cables from the satellite truck, gathering information. We retraced the (INAUDIBLE) of one of those suspect bombers.

The police think when he tried to let off his bomb, he (INAUDIBLE) back window of the train, then climbed down behind these houses. He came from the backyard through an open door on the back of this house, out the front door, onto this street and then took off up the street. Was he carrying anything?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. (INAUDIBLE)

ROBERTSON: Well lo and behold the next day police showed a photograph of that same suspect and he had changed his shirt so by getting out there, following the pieces of information that we have, joining the dots ourselves were able to even if you will get ahead of the news. But when you're sort of up close and you're on the front line and you're standing there with the police tape on another raid or another incident, you're right there on the (INAUDIBLE) of a story.

JOHNS: Nic Robertson, a tremendously fast breaking story. How are you keeping up with it all?

ROBERTSON: Really listening to the - (INAUDIBLE) the statements from the press, listening to reports, statements rather from the police, listening to people who call us up in our newsroom and say that there's something happening here. There's something happening in my town, double checking that source and then moving on it fast. That's what we've been doing all week. When we hear something, double check it and move, just go and be ready.

JOHNS: We have a question from the audience. What's your name? What's your question?

QUESTION: My name is Sarah. I'm from Tufts University and I wonder, at what point does the public grow complacent about terrorism and will it ever lose its effect?

ROBERTSON: Well, I don't think people in London will be complacent for a while. They'll certainly be on the look out. I think though as people's lives move on, perhaps people now go away on their summer vacations, then they come back. They get into the routine of lives in the full and they may begin to forget everything that happened in the summer and I think that's the time and perhaps if there were no more bombs or attempted bombings or whatever, you know, maybe by Christmas, people really would have it out of their minds. And that's really what the police here really try to battle with when they tell people, you have to be on the lookout. The police are still warning, thee could be more attacks, more terror cells out there. But really, what's happened in the last few weeks has really brought it home to people and they really didn't expect to hear, although people had thought, maybe, maybe, now they really know it can happen. So I think it will be a long time before they get really complacent.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Nic, I think we've all been amazed at how fast you've been on the story. What kind of obstacles are you facing from the British authorities? It seems like you get pretty good access as you said. Sometimes you even seem to be head of them.

ROBERTSON: Well, I find this sort of interesting because the police here really don't give out an awful lot of information. Really they give out the information that will help them catch the people, catch the suspects that they're after. There's a huge amount of information they don't tell us. There's a lot of speculation in the media and really the way that we're getting the information is to go out and talk to the neighbors and what did the neighbors know. The neighbors can confirm that man X or man Y lived at that house. Well, the police won't say it, but the neighbors have seen the photographs. So you can do it that way. You can build a picture that way. People who perhaps these men went to school with or whatever earlier in their life. So you can build a lot by doing that, but really the day to day stuff is really listening to sources around the country.

JOHNS: Nic, another question from the audience. What's your name? What's your question?

QUESTION: Hi. I'm Kim from San Diego. I wondered, what's the most challenging aspect of reporting live on such emotional stories?

ROBERTSON: I think one of the most challenging aspects is really knowing the facts, is arriving on the breaking scene and knowing the facts and finding out what people have seen. You get confusing and conflicting accounts. Somebody might have seen it from one direction, somebody from another. Are they talking about the same issue? And then when it's a big breaking situation, you might have other reporters in other places and you're just hearing them in your earpiece, in your IFP (ph) and you're trying to figure out well are they on another angle of what I'm reporting or are they reporting on another part of the story that's breaking somewhere else? So just concentrating on what you know and what you can 100 percent confirm from the people around you, perhaps from the police, perhaps from eye witnesses and holding onto those solid facts and before you sort of get out into speculation about what may be going on. I think that's the real challenge, getting those hard facts.

ED HENRY, CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Nic, what has it been like going into some of these neighborhoods to dig out the story? We've all been in a situation before where some citizens don't like to talk to the press. They're not used to talking to them. This is such a high- impact story, a scary story. Are they trying to contribute, to try to help you get the suspects or are they sort of nervous about it given the fear of terrorism out there? ROBERTSON: I think it's become easier through the last few weeks to be honest. When we went up to Leeds for the raids there, people in that community and it may just have been the community, they were really shocked about what had happened to them and I think it was a huge disappointment that people, young boys in their community could have gone out and done this. And they really didn't know how to talk about it. They didn't want to implicate themselves and their community by explaining things. They were quite withdrawn. But as we've gone to other places, Birmingham, you've found people who want to come out and talk, who want to come out and explain things and in London, where the story sort of gravitated later in the week, what we've seen there is that people really want to come out and talk and really explain what they might have seen. And it's sort of - as things have gone, I've found it's become easier and people do want to tell you and do want to explain and in a way, they feel that they're sort of helping everyone else's understanding.

DANA BASH, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And Nic, from our perspective, watching this happen at warp speed, it's quite amazing to see a terrorist attack and to see these arrests come so fast afterwards. In talking to your sources, do you get the sense there that this is something that maybe they just sort of lucked out on or is this the kind of thing that they've really been - the authorities have been following for some time and they had sort of built up their case if you will already?

ROBERTSON: I think really what has happened is the bombers who failed last week, because they didn't expect to fail, they left behind a huge number of clues. The bombs, they fled from the scene, closed circuit cameras caught them and this gave the police a huge amount of information. There was apparently documents left in the backpacks that gave indications of where they lived and those closed circuit cameras, the police were immediately able to broadcast those pictures. There's a great communications network in this country. They put a hotline. They had an e-mail site that people could e-mail the police information so they could draw on a huge number of resources. I think that's one of the reasons why they've been fast, but it is still incredible that they were able to catch all four men in such a short space of time. And not on that, one of them at least fled to Italy. So to be able to catch up with him as well is quite incredible, although you might ask, how did he get out of the country if he was one of the four most wanted men. But I guess that's a question we'll begin to get to over the coming days.

JOHNS: Nic Robertson, thanks so much for that. We will be watching reports in the coming days. From terrorism to space, the shuttle is back in orbit, but so are questions about safety. John Zarrella is on the story after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHNS: We're on the story. The space shuttle roared back into orbit this week, but right behind it came the questions and about safety, not just about this mission, but those ahead. CNN's John Zarrella is on the story at the Johnson Space Center in Houston. Here's his reporter's notebook. JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And lift off on space shuttle Discovery, beginning America's new journey to the moon, Mars, and beyond.

I was driving into the office and the phone rings and it's my producer Rich Phillips (ph) on my cell phone. He says hey, you got to go to Houston.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were wrong and we missed something and we have to go figure out what it was and go fix it.

ZARRELLA: I think that this mission is different from the standpoint that there is more pressure on the space program with this mission than there ever way before. You got a press briefing. NASA officials were to some degree beaming that there was very little evidence of any damage found. The shuttle Discovery looks like it's in really good shape. So for the first time in a couple of days, NASA has something to smile about.

Since 1983, I have been involved in the coverage of I guess about every space shuttle mission that there has been. This time more than any other time that they're probably very, very concerned about the future of the space shuttle.

JOHNS: John, as you said, you've seen so many of these, what was the mood there when it became clear that there might be a problem?

ZARRELLA: You know, I think that the folks at NASA have been through this so many times. You know, the highly publicized of course coming out of the Challenger accident, coming out of Columbia now and even other problems, hydrogen leaks over the years. They're used to it. The mood was we got to work through this. We'll get by and we'll move on and that again, they're resilient. They're used to it. They've got the scars to prove it. It's happened quite a few times to them.

JOHNS: I have a question from the audience. What's your name? What's your question?

QUESTION: Hi, Tom from New Jersey. If the space shuttle program was scrapped, what does NASA have planned for the future regarding space exploration?

ZARRELLA: Well, it presents some critical issues, because the bottom line is that the shuttle's supposed to be phased out by 2010 and another shuttle type vehicle possibly a derivative of the shuttle added on from that point on so they can continue on servicing the space, the international space station, which is a critical issue. But the reality is that of course the president wants to go back to the moon and then onto to Mars which would require a whole different type of a vehicle that is just now being thought about. So it's pretty unclear and unsettling I think at this point as to what might happen after 2010 when the shuttle is phased out or potentially even before that if they feel or figure out that some of these issues with the external tank and the insulation falling off is something they can't solve. BASH: John, the fact that the shuttle is up in space right now and while the shuttle is up, they now said it's essentially the fleet is going to be grounded. Is that something that struck you as odd that a big part of this is PR and they want to really make people feel good about it, that they're sort of countering that kind of image?

ZARRELLA: Yes, you know, they had to do that. They had to come out and say when they did, they couldn't have waited until after the mission was over and then say oh, by the way, we had this issue of foam flying off the external tank. They have been very candid since the Columbia accident, extremely different attitude and atmosphere that after Challenger for example, when things were very much kept close to the vest. Very little information was passed other than what had to be. So I think this is all part of the new NASA, that they came forward. They admitted they had made a mistake. And it's a very difficult thing to do and it's a tough mistake over 2 1/2 years grounded to admit you had made.

JOHNS: Another question from the audience. What's your name? What's your question?

QUESTION: I'm Jeff from (INAUDIBLE) Texas. Given NASA's dominance in U.S. space exploration, what role do you see for the private sector in space tourism?

ZARRELLA: You know, it's funny, I think that there's a lot of people out there that are looking at potential for the private sector, but the private sector's going to have to have money, low earth orbit, taking people up into low earth orbit is certainly possible. But anything that has to do with deep space exploration, whether it's the moon or Mars, is not going to be handled by the private sector, certainly not in my lifetime. I don't know how old you are. Maybe in yours, not in my lifetime, that's for darn sure. And I would question whether in my lifetime the U.S. space agency would even make it to the moon and certainly on Mars, is going to be a tough one.

MCINTYRE: John, what's it like out there where you are? I mean here you are surrounded by people who live and breath this stuff, some of the very people who have worked on the moon you might run into at dinner. What's the buzz there? What do they think about all this?

ZARRELLA: What do you mean might run into at dinner? Let's see it was Thursday night, funny you should mention that. Thursday night I ran into Buzz Aldrin, of course, the second man who walked on the moon, Neil Armstrong having been the first and he was at the - came into the hotel dining room and I was sitting there eating and we started chatting and he's here because he's - Buzz is one of those who believes that the private sector has a role and can be helping to promote tourism in space and putting people in space. But you know, the fact is that here at this space center, the same as at the Kennedy Space Center, these people that work in these offices around me are just like you and just like me. They're good people. They work hard here and the atmosphere really is, we'll get through this because we got through so many of these in the past, the same way the atmosphere is out at the jet propulsion laboratory in Pasadena when they lost the Mars polar lander (ph) a few years back. They knew they'd get through that and get by it and they always do. That's just the resilience of these people.

JOHNS: John Zarrella, thanks so much for that. We will be watching your reports. Take care.

As the shuttle story continues from space to politics, of the presidential variety. Dana Bash is back on the story after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHNS: Here on the campus of the George Washington University, we're just a few blocks from the White House. For the president, the last week of July was a chance to push his plan and his men. Let's take a look at the notebook of White House correspondent Dana Bash.

BASH: We haven't seen the president very much at all this week, but a quiet public schedule definitely belies the frantic work going behind the scenes here at the White House.

The president's team is also continuing to carry out their meticulously choreographed role out plan of their nominee, John Roberts, to the Supreme Court.

Isn't it appropriate for him to answer some questions while he's at the hearing about his personal views on particular cases?

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: A judge should look at the fact and then look at the law and look at the constitution.

BASH: The president (INAUDIBLE) newspaper article even before John Roberts was nominated saying that the Democrat strategy was to ask for as many documents as possible. Well, nothing like a good old fashioned document dump to keep us busy and that's exactly what Democrats say here is that the White House is giving them a (INAUDIBLE), six boxes of documents 20 years old.

This week was very much like a race to the finish line. The president is not going to be in town for about a month and his top agenda item, Social Security, has been stalled and still is. So he is really looking to go home with some legislative victories.

JOHNS: We've a question from the audience. What's your name? What's your question?

QUESTION: Hi. I'm (INAUDIBLE). I go to California State University Fresno. Is the passing of CAFTA and the energy bill, coupled with the seemingly inevitable nomination and acceptance of Judge John Roberts a sign the president's agenda is back on track?

BASH: That's exactly what we heard over and over again at the White House at the end of the week. It's actually exactly what they wanted to talk about at the end of the week. I was talking to a senior aide on Thursday night, really is getting ready for what they hope was to finally be able to say, we have legislative achievement. They've been getting - hearing that maybe he's a lame duck. He's not getting his top agenda item through, which is Social Security, so they're really getting ready for it and then they got slammed by their own majority leader, a Republican leader in the Senate, publicly in a very meticulously choreographed way, breaking ranks with the president on a very emotional issue, stem cell research.

JOHNS: How surprised were they when this happened? Did it come out of left field?

BASH: Absolutely. Well, what happened was, on Thursday night, Senator Frist called President Bush in the residence, in the White House residence and gave him a heads up about this. They were talking about a whole bunch of issues. But then what happened was, in the morning, this story was in the "New York Times." Senator Frist was on morning TV and again the White House staff, the president's aides were getting ready to really tout his accomplishments and tout Senator Frist's accomplishments frankly and they saw this and they knew that their message had been absolutely gone. And I can tell you that they were not happy at all. I talked to one senior official who said, essentially that the Republican leader is politically tone deaf. That is not something you usually hear from this Republican White House about other Republicans, especially somebody who, as Ed knows very well, has been one of the president's top allies.

MCINTYRE: So is this Frist the majority leader or Frist the future presidential candidate?

BASH: Well, that might be a better question for Ed.

HENRY: I think it's a little bit of both, but the politics are really dicey here, because on one hand, Senator Frist may be showing he's his own man. There have been a lot of accusations that he's been too close to the president, too close to Karl Rove and that they're actually pulling the strings in the Senate. So maybe this is a way to show he's independent. Maybe this is a way to reach across to swing voters. We think that stem cell research according to the polls is pretty good in their eyes. But on the other side of the ledger, conservatives who dominate the Republican presidential primaries and they will again in 2008 are not happy at all and they're saying this is not in their eyes the true pro life position. So I'm not sure the politics are easy to figure out just yet and I'm not sure if Bill Frist even has figured out. I think though that in his gut he has always felt this way about stem cell research, but kept it quiet for the last four years because he didn't want to embarrass the president. But now as you say, Dana and Joe, I think now he wants to be his own man and he is going to start moving towards 2008 and break away from this White House.

JOHNS: And he's out of here next year anyway.

HENRY: Right, good point. I mean he is a lame duck Senate majority leader. He has already said he's not running for reelection I 2006.

BASH: I was going to say and this is actually something that when you're talking to the president's aides, that they very quietly say, they're getting ready for and that is for people who, Republicans who are interested in the White House to start coming out more and more and essentially knocking the president off message. You know, the White House was trying to make the case at the end of the week that they're not a lame duck. The president is getting major issues done like energy reform, which he's been trying for four years, like this free trade agreement and that's what they're trying to talk about. But then you have other people with other agendas that aren't the president's agenda. And they're not used to that at the White House. In talking to the president's aides, that's very clear.

JOHNS: So just how do we get real independence for Bill Frist form the White House? Does this do it for him do you think?

BASH: Well, I don't know. I mean that's a big - that's a big open question. He still is the Republican leader and he still has the task of pushing the president's agenda through and the bottom line is, as Ed very much knows, they do agree on most issues.

HENRY: (INAUDIBLE)

BASH: Yes. There's no question about that.

HENRY: But I think the broader issue that Dana was pointing out before is that think about where the president started right after the last election and talking about spending political capital on big ideas - Social Security reform, massive reform, structural tax reform, ripping up the entire tax code and changing it. Instead we're not hearing much about those two issues anymore and instead, this White House is now touting relatively minor victories like the Central American Free Trade Agreement. I think in a few months, things have really turned in a very interesting way.

JOHNS: All right Ed. We're going to come back to that in just a minute. President Bush made his trip from the White House to the Capitol this week. We're going to do the same with congressional correspondent Ed Henry. He's back on the story, plus a check of what's making headlines right now after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there. I'm Carol Lin. More of ON THE STORY in just a moment, but first, a look at what's happening right now in the news.

Italian officials held an extradition hearing today for one of four men suspected of those failed July 21st bombing attempts in London. No decision was issued. Italian police were on alert for possible terrorist attacks today after the British man's arrest on Friday.

And the shuttle astronauts will be spending one more day in space. NASA made that decision this afternoon. Earlier, two of the astronauts tested a tile repair kit. It was developed after damage to tiles on the Shuttle Columbia caused the craft to break apart upon reentry in 2003.

In Egypt, plain clothed police arrested opposition demonstrators in Cairo. The incidents followed the announcement by President Hosni Mubarak that he will run for reelection in September. President Mubarak has been in power for 24 years.

President Bush has gotten a clean bill of health. He underwent his annual physical in Bethesda, Maryland today. Doctors say the 59- year-old president remains in excellent health for a man of his age.

That's what's happening right now in the news. I'm Carol Lin. Now, back to ON THE STORY.

JOHNS: CNN' ON THE STORY with our audience at the George Washington University. Congressional correspondent Ed Henry was at his post this week as our elected representatives tried to finish up for the summer. Let's take a look at this notebook.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HENRY (on camera): At the end of July, members of Congress get just as antsy as anybody does across the country, getting ready for August vacation. They basically have just a few days to get all kinds of legislation done. It's just this mad dash, a scramble to get as much done.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The yeas are 217; the nays are 215. The bill is passed.

HENRY: The energy bill, the highway bill. We've got the Roberts nomination kicking around, obviously still, and there's just one thing after another piling up.

And you add to that mix in a little of this mad dash, the president all of a sudden comes up to the Hill, decides to have a closed-door meetings with Republicans to try to rally the troops. And it's always fascinating to watch, at the end of the week like this one, there's so much tension, and once the air goes out of the balloon, you literally see members of Congress racing to National Airport here in the Washington area to try to jump on planes, whether they're going back home to Mississippi, or they're going to London on vacation. Republican Senator Sam Brownback, for example, told me he's going to Iowa, not once but at least twice. I suspect we'll see him there, and a lot of other Democrats and Republicans, looking ahead to 2008.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: Little fancy editing there. We have a question from the studio.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, my name is Naomi Andrews (ph). I'm from Epping, New Hampshire. In your opinion, will John Bolton become U.N. ambassador as a recess appointment? And what will that mean for the U.N. reform bid that is currently in progress?

HENRY: I think it's...

JOHNS: Tough question.

HENRY: Yeah, tough question. We don't give our opinions, but we'll try to give you a flavor for what we're hearing in our notebooks. I think Dana has information as well, which is basically we're expecting that John Bolton will get what's called a recess appointment. While Congress is away, the president has the power to install various people -- either judges, or various cabinet-level officials, and we're expecting he's doing to do this with John Bolton.

But to answer your question directly about whether or not he can reform the U.N., the expectations the president feels that while John Bolton may not be, you know, the nicest guy, he's a guy who's hard- charging, that's the kind of guy they want to shake up the U.N. But there is some concern among Republicans on the Hill that if he gets a recess appointment and not a vote in the Senate and the full force of the United States Senate, he won't be able to get as much reform, Dana, because they realize that he'll seem like almost a lame duck himself.

MCINTYRE: So when you say they're expecting to get a recess appointment, does that mean that's what people are telling you or...

HENRY: Yes, people are saying, you know, a wink and a nod, expect this.

BASH: Right, I mean, exactly, and at the White House, the way they phrase it is, we expect something as early as next week. So they're very careful not to sort of put a fine point on it, make it definitive, but they're...

HENRY: And the president is frustrated, because he's been trying to get Bolton in place, and he feels like the Democrats have been stalling and blocking, and this is a way for him to get around it.

JOHNS: Question from the audience. What's your name? What's your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My name is Nick (ph). I'm from North Carolina. I was wondering, does the August recess provide the president with any political leverage with regard to a Supreme Court confirmation battle?

HENRY: Well, I think what's interesting is we were all expecting to have to cancel our vacations in August, because we thought there was going to be this messy battle. And instead, I think it still -- we saw some speed bumps this week, where the Democrats started raising some questions and picking some fights with the Republicans, and back and forth, but by and large, at the end of the week, it still looks like John Roberts is pretty much sailing along.

So I think what you'll see in August -- it will be relatively quiet, barring some unexpected development -- and what they'll do is use that time wisely on both sides of the aisle to do the real thorough background checks. The FBI background check and the Senate Judiciary Committee background check, and we expect the hearings, the real theater, will break out right after Labor Day. But I think in August, it will be pretty quiet.

JOHNS: And do we think there's going to be real theater? I mean, he sounds like a -- well, not a dull guy, but he sounds like a guy who doesn't have anything really interesting that reporters would sort of chew on and go after?

HENRY: He might not be that interesting, but you put Ted Kennedy, Orrin Hatch, Joe Biden, who's thinking about running for president, and kind of a little bit long-winded in how he gives his speeches, and I think you're going to see some fireworks. And I mean that as a compliment, Senator.

But I think that, you know, you're going to see a lot of fireworks. We've seen that, whether it was the Thomas hearings or the Bork hearings over the years, especially when you add into the mix people like Joe Biden, who's the senior Democrat on the committee. I raise him because he's thinking about running for president. And how he handles himself, how he battles John Roberts is going to be watched very closely. And on the Republican side, Sam Brownback as well is on the committee. He wants to run for president. Does he push Roberts hard and find out whether he's conservative enough to Brownback on abortion and issues like that? I think there's going to be theater.

MCINTYRE: And you're hoping for that because it will make your job more...

HENRY: It will make it a lot more interesting.

BASH: But you know what's really interesting about that, is that the White House has been on such a war footing for so long that even though there really isn't that much in terms of controversy, it still feels like the campaign again, because even when Ted Kennedy says, well, maybe some of his writings from 20-plus years ago show that he had some issues with civil rights -- you get a phone call from somebody at the White House, you get e-mails with talking points, saying, well, that's not really why, and you know, you get a push on, well, maybe we want -- maybe you should interview his third-grade teacher to explain why Ted Kennedy is actually wrong.

HENRY: Both sides are digging into a battle. Whether there's going to be a battle or not, whether he's that controversial, both sides want a fight.

JOHNS: They have a lot of energy there. They do indeed.

One issue that hangs over all others in the debate over national priorities, the war in Iraq, in fact. Jamie McIntyre is back ON THE STORY after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHNS: CNN's ON THE STORY, here on the campus of the George Washington University. This week, the top U.S. general in Iraq, General George Casey, gave fresh hints about when U.S. forces could come home. Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre is on that story. Check out his notebook.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MCINTYRE (on camera): Because of the time difference, when I got to work, there was already a lot of fuss about George Casey's remarks about significant troop reductions in Iraq next spring.

GEN. GEORGE CASEY, COMMANDER, MULTI-NATIONAL FORCE: I do believe we'll still be able to take some fairly substantial reductions after these elections in the spring and summer of next year.

MCINTYRE: Some people seemed to think that it contradicted what President Bush said just last month about not setting any deadline or timetable for U.S. withdrawal.

My first job is to figure out if Casey was really saying something new, and what additional reporting we could bring to help put the story in its proper context. So I'm pushing my sources for some details on what Casey really means by troop reductions. And I'm told that, by my sources, both in the building and in Iraq, that we're talking about roughly 25 percent of troop reduction, maybe 25,000, 35,000 troops. Now, that's reporting that you didn't see anywhere else.

I hope that what people got from our reporting is that this talk of troops reductions is not a plan, it's not a timetable, it's not a deadline. It's a hope.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: And Jamie McIntyre is here with us right now. Before we start asking you questions up here, though, let's go to the audience. What's your name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi. I'm Rob Manger (ph). I presently live in Russia, and a great panel discussion. I'd like to ask you, does the Iraqi public support the troops withdrawal?

MCINTYRE: I think they see it as key. I mean, one of the reasons why they want to send this message, that the troops are going to be leaving, is that they want the Iraqi people to know it, they want the insurgents to know it, and of course, they want the American public to know it. The whole question is exactly how you announce that.

I mean, it's clear that the U.S. strategy is to leave Iraq. That's not a big secret. And to leave as soon as they can. But there's this whole question of what President Bush said about not sending the wrong message, so.

JOHNS: Yes, and so I think we have another question. Hi, what's your name?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, I'm Jessica (ph) from Brandeis University. How likely is it that we'll actually begin to disengage our troops next March, and what steps are being taken to ensure that that happens?

MCINTYRE: Well, it's really hard to handicap it. I mean, one of the reasons you don't see the Pentagon -- one of the reasons you don't see them saying a lot about when the troops are going to leave is that it's based, as I said, it's a hope. It's based on a hopeful scenario, some would say it's even wishful thinking. And they've been dashed so many times before that Secretary Rumsfeld has almost raised to a high art this question of not even revealing what he thinks might possibly happen, because he doesn't want to be held to it.

Now, that said, they have a plan. They're hopeful that if things work out over the next eight months or so, they really will be at a place to make some reductions. If it's still, even if they take those 35,000 troops out, still be 100,000 left.

BASH: Secretary Rumsfeld has raised it to a high art, and President Bush, obviously, has the same exact line, very, very careful, especially recently when you have members of Congress, even Republicans, people in his own party, saying, bring the troops home, not to say that. So it was sort of the fact that -- I think the White House was a little bit frustrated that they didn't get that second half, the conditional part of it that you reported.

MCINTYRE: Well, you know, we, every time we played Casey's comments on the air, we played the whole thing, and you know, he -- he might feel a little (INAUDIBLE) by the whole thing, because there was a big fuss about it, and he said virtually exactly what he said on CNN in an interview with Wolf Blitzer four months ago, that basically if things are better, we expect to be able to have some significant reductions. He didn't say anything different. But you know, things have happened since then. There have been a couple of reports out saying that the Iraqi army isn't as up to speed as it should be. The Iraqi police infiltrated by criminals and others. So it's harder to look for the basis for that hopeful scenario, and I think that's what's got people...

HENRY: And General Casey mentioned the elections next spring in Iraq, but also, there is an election next November in the United States, and as Dana mentioned, there are some Republicans on the Hill that are getting restless, and that's going to put some more pressure on this process as well, because the president is not on the ballot next year, but Republicans in the House and Senate are.

MCINTYRE: Yeah, (INAUDIBLE) one of those things that will be gearing up. It's interesting, though, as I said, I went back to see what Casey said before on CNN, and when I found the quote, I actually sent it to Larry DiRita, the Pentagon spokesman, said, look, here's what Casey said before, and the funny thing is, later in the day, one of the -- one of DiRita's aides came by and said, look, we just wanted to let you know, here's what Casey said before -- and I looked at the thing, it was the same e-mail I sent to DiRita.

JOHNS: All right. Got it. Another question from the audience.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Kirsten Davis (ph), Baltimore College. I was wondering how removing troops could actually jeopardize the troops that remain?

MCINTYRE: Well, the criticism all along has been, there are not enough troops. I mean, they've got a whole big vast area in the west, where they need to maintain control. They don't have enough troops to do that. Everybody agrees with that. The solution that everybody agrees on is they need more Iraqi troops.

And while it's true, when you bring U.S. troops out, that makes it harder, but what they -- one of the things we reported this week, based on sources, was that the plan they have to do this is not take the troops out of the areas where there's a lot of fighting, but there's vast areas of Iraq where things aren't so bad. I mean, you take the troops out of there, concentrate the troops that are left in the really bad spot -- at least that's the plan. But you don't hear anybody talking about it, because they don't want to be held to it.

JOHNS: One thing that seems really true is, even just putting this little bit of information out there, they still sort of raise expectations, don't they?

MCINTYRE: Absolutely. If March comes of next year, and there are not significant troop reductions, you can believe we're all going to be doing stories about what happened to the hopeful scenario of being able to pull troops out.

JOHNS: And it's really bad timing, too, because as Ed mentioned, we have the midterms. So that doesn't bode necessarily real well politically for this administration if they don't start moving people out.

MCINTYRE: They've got to keep -- the question there is they need to get the Iraqis to approve the constitution and not -- you know, they can ask for a six-month delay. If they do that, that can kill this whole withdrawal plan and...

HENRY: And the training of the Iraqi troops has been such a difficult process. We've seen all different reports giving varying accounts of exactly how quickly these Iraqi troops can...

MCINTYRE: It's getting better. I mean, nobody doubts that it's getting better. It's just got a long way to go, and you need to have these troops to be able to operate on their own without any U.S. help. They got a lot of troops that can work with the U.S., but they need them to be able to work by themselves.

JOHNS: Jamie McIntyre, thanks so much.

Here's a social issue that confronts the military and the rest of society: Homosexuality. Deborah Feyerick reports on the religious camp that claims it can change gay and lesbian teens, and turn them away from homosexuality. Deborah's back ON THE STORY after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHNS: CNN's ON THE STORY of changing minds. Correspondent Deborah Feyerick visited a religious camp in Memphis. Organizers claim the camp can help gay and lesbian teens change their sexuality. Here's Deb's reporter's notebook.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): The hardest thing about this kind of story is, is that it's virtually impossible, when you're dealing with these kinds of emotionally charged issues, to make either side happy. And we were able to accomplish that. We got enough positive feedback that both sides thought this piece was fair.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When they express things that have gone on internally, and they find other people who've shared those thoughts or feelings, it actually releases the shame.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It increases their feeling of shame. It increases their feeling of failure. It makes them feel worse about themselves when they're done.

FEYERICK: I do think I got a good picture of Love in Action.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't cause it, I don't cure it, I don't create it. There is no way I can cure gays. There isn't a cure for homosexuality.

FEYERICK: I think what was surprising also is that when you talk about those kinds of programs, it was just so clear how much conflict is going on in these people, that they're trying to reconcile their religion and their sexuality. They really wanted to tell their story, and I was surprised at just how honest they were.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: Deb, we have a question from the audience. What's your name? What's your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Julie (ph) from North Carolina State University. Do you feel that the teens genuinely wanted to be at this camp and wanted to change their lifestyle?

FEYERICK: No, and that was the big issue for a number of teens who initially went. Their parents forced them to go. They didn't have a choice when they got there. But there's just this really big conflict, because so many of them grow up in these religious homes, religion is a big part of their lives, and then all of sudden, they begin to explore their sexuality, and it just doesn't fit with what they've learned, with their parents' beliefs. And so it is a very big struggle.

However, once they do get to this program, it's really very nurturing environment. Almost nurturing in a sense that they feel so safe here, that they can explore their issues, that they stay a little bit longer, to see whether in fact it's going to work or it's not going to work for them.

JOHNS: Another question. What's your name?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm Dawn Miller (ph) from Brandeis University.

JOHNS: And your question.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was wondering how programs like these get off the ground, and shouldn't they be subject to some form of regulation, since they claim to be therapeutic?

FEYERICK: And that's an excellent question, and that's why this program is right now under investigation by the Department of Health there in Tennessee, and also by the Mental Health Department, and even Children's Services went in to take a look at them.

They claim to treat addictions, like alcoholism and drugs, but primarily the addiction they call of homosexuality. And their belief is not so much that you can cure this, not so much that you can fix this, but you can suppress it, you can deny it sufficiently, so that it doesn't become an issue, and that's what they're trying to sort of emphasize.

And when you listen to these teens talk, especially this one that we interviewed for the piece, there is so much conflict, and even just a lack of resolution, because this young boy we spoke to, Ben Marshall, he's trying, he's really trying hard, and he, I felt when we interviewed him, he was going to come out and say, you know, I'm cured, I have -- I don't lust after men. He said just the opposite. He said, you know, my lust isn't as great as it was, and you know, maybe I'll be able to develop a lust towards women; I'm starting to feel that now. And if all that fails, then I'll just be celibate. So it's -- it's not a fix, it's something you accept to do or not do.

JOHNS: What's your name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Matt (ph) from Oklahoma City University School of Law. I'm curious, what's been the reaction from gay advocacy groups, concerning the operation and results of these camps?

FEYERICK: Gay advocacy groups are so against these programs. And we got a lot of e-mail, as a matter of fact, about these particular programs. We did a two-part series on this. We got a lot of e-mail, because they say that conversion therapy simply does not work. As a matter of fact, the American Psychiatric Association says it doesn't work. The American Mental Health Association also says that it doesn't work. And so, they were very upset that we even went to this camp to interview these people, and present their story. This is their story. It is a small story. Teenagers are forced by their parents in some cases to go; some of them do accept and go willingly. But it's not easy, and so it's certainly this what they call conversion therapy not accepted on the whole.

MCINTYRE: Deb, this has got to be a really difficult story to cover, in the sense that are you really sure that everybody you talk to is really telling you what they really think, and will they still think that in a couple of months? Now, how do you deal with that? And how does that compare to what you see versus what, say, the science tells us?

FEYERICK: The science says that this kind of therapy simply doesn't work. That's what the science says. When I spoke to another graduate of the program, Love in Action, he said it was interesting, because when he went to this camp, and he was -- he's very religious, still very religious, he said, you know, there is nothing in the scriptures that says, well, this is unacceptable, effectively. And he went there and he actually embraced his homosexuality. It's this young man, Ben Marshall, who you saw in the picture, he's the one who's struggling with it now, and to hear him talk, to hear how he's trying to find a path that he could be comfortable with, the jury seems to be out that what he's learning now may be working, but it's -- he's young. He's 18 years old. And there's going to be a lot of work, a ways that he's got to go.

JOHNS: Deborah, thanks so much for that.

We're back with what our panel is expecting ON THE STORY next week, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHNS: A quick look ahead ON THE STORY. What are you all looking forward to happen on the beat this week? Dana.

BASH: Well, we all talked earlier about the potential, probability for a recess appointment for John Bolton to the U.N., but the president is going for his month-long vacation, actually as part of a working vacation, to his ranch in Crawford, Texas, so we're going to hear about clearing brush and a lot about 100-plus-degree bike rides.

(CROSSTALK)

HENRY: You saw my notebook. Those members of Congress running out in super speed time, because they're going on recess. I want to do the same, so I'm going to pass the ball to Jamie and have him work. He'll work hard this week.

MCINTYRE: A key Rumsfeld aide told me exactly what Defense Secretary Rumsfeld is doing next week, but it was off the record.

JOHNS: I hate it when that happens. Hate that.

Thanks to my colleagues and our audience here at the George Washington University, and thanks to you for watching ON THE STORY. We'll be back each week, Saturday night, Sunday morning.

Straight ahead, a check on what's making news right now.

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