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Bush's Crawford Holiday Is Quiet As Fewer Anti-War Demonstrators Turn Out; Preliminary Data on Black Friday Looks Good For Retailers; Bloggers, Journalists Compliment Each Other As Information; Tom DeLay's Legal Problems Continue; Why Some People Don't Just Complain About News Coverage. They Start Blogging

Aired November 26, 2005 -   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ON THE STORY is coming up in just a moment. First a look at what's happening now in the news. Four American soldiers in Afghanistan are being reprimanded for an incident last month when U.S. troops burned the decomposing bodies of enemy fighters. The Army says it was a bad judgment, but not a violation of the rules of war.
Two inmates who escaped from the county jail in Yakima, Washington have been captured. Two others remain on the loose.

Protests today outside President Bush's ranch in Crawford, Texas, including anti-Iraq war protester Cindy Sheehan. A handful of pro-Bush supporters staged a counter protest nearby. They accuse Sheehan of misrepresenting military families. Coming up, ON THE STORY. CNN correspondents give you the insider's view of the week's top stories, candid conversation and never before seen video. Don't miss this essential look at the big stories affecting your life.

Also later, CNN 25, they said what? We'll take a look back at the 25 most controversial influential and surprising statements of the past quarter century. That's what's happening now in the news. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. Now, ON THE STORY.

ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR, ON THE STORY: This is CNN and we are ON THE STORY. From the campus of the George Washington University in the heart of the nation's capital, our correspondents bring you the stories behind the stories they're covering.

Barbara Starr is on the Iraq story, what the generals are saying about the war and public support.

Joe Johns looks at the debate in Congress, aftershocks of the call to bring the troops home.

Elaine Quijano is on the story with the president, how Iraq dominates his agenda.

Sibila Vargas is on the story of holiday movies, what's the magic, the monster hit, the thriller in our future?

Internet reporter Abbie Tatton looks at WHY SOME PEOPLE DON'T JUST COMPLAIN ABOUT NEWS COVERAGE. THEY START BLOGGING.

Welcome. I'm Ali Velshi and I'm on the story of what we saw when holiday shoppers hit the stores after Thanksgiving. With me here are Barbara Starr and Joe Johns and all our correspondents will be taking questions from the studio audience drawn from visitors, college students, people across Washington and across the nation.

Now straight to the political battle over the war, the legal problems of Republican leader Tom Delay and the looming confirmation hearings for Supreme Court nominee Samuel Alito. Congressional correspondent Joe Johns has to weigh it all up. Have a look at his reporter's notebook.

JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What you usually do is you look at a situation, you say, what moves the ball the farthest down the road? So the Murtha story was the development.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a flawed policy wrapped in illusion.

JOHNS: Somebody with that gravitas you haven't heard say something like that before. That's a big story. A former aide of Tom Delay who was indicted now decides he's going to go ahead and plead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Scanlon appeared in court today, entered a plea of guilty.

JOHNS: Down in Austin, Texas, you have Tom Delay himself appearing in court on some motions. He's got a motion to dismiss the case.

TOM DELAY: I have committed no wrongdoing.

JOHNS: The ads are out. They're pretty nasty and as expected, there should be a pretty good fight over Alito and this will be the fight that a lot of people didn't get with Harriet Miers, that a lot of people didn't get with John Roberts. Should be an interesting December.

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Joe, can you look at every story that you're covering on Capitol Hill right now and it really seems like the mean season. I mean, it's just, it's un - we've seen Murtha. We see yelling on the floor of the House. What's going on?

JOHNS: Well, I think what's going on is people know there's an election coming up next year and they're going after each other. It happens every year. It's worse now than it has been. I mean I've been on Capitol Hill for a long time, seen a lot and it's pretty bad.

STARR: But is some of this now fueled by the war and the feeling that the war is going to be the political issue?

JOHNS: Sure, John Murtha sort of set the stage for it. This is a Democrat from Pennsylvania, very well regarded on Capitol Hill and off Capitol Hill, even at the Pentagon. There are people who say he's thought of sort as a four star general who says, time to bring the troops home. They're suffering. We need to get them out of Iraq. So the interesting thing though and people haven't talked about it much is that there weren't a lot of democrats who went racing to follow John Murtha down that path at least immediately.

VELSHI: But he certainly got things going and let's find out what our audience thinks about that. Your name, where you're from and your question.

QUESTION: My name is Sangita (ph). I'm from Silver Spring, Maryland and my question is, given the conservative climate of Congress these days, what do you think is - how effective can pro- choice advocates be in stopping Sam Alito's nomination to the Supreme Court?

JOHNS: That's hard to say. The truth is, a lot of people say that if he's a reasonable person and he wins over the senators, particularly on the Judiciary Committee, pretty smooth sailing. On the other hand, as I said, this is the fight a lot of people have expected for a long time and in all likelihood, it's going to build. The people on the left are going to say, here's a guy that we just can't let on the court. The fact of the matter though is, at the end of the day, if he's well qualified and he seems reasonable and he's at least got explanations for things in his record that came before, many people suggest a nominee like that has a good chance of going through. A lot of times with a court nominee, it's other stuff in the background that shoots down the nomination, if that person is well qualified. It has to be something else, something more than just his record. So we'll see. The vetting process goes on.

VELSHI: Good question because it's almost dizzying how many things the two of you have to cover in this one week. Remember, there's a Supreme Court nomination process under way and yet we've had so many different stories. Sir, your name, where you're from and your question.

QUESTION: Hi. My name's Drew from Houston, Texas. First Delay, now Murtha. Is this the ripple effect against the Republicans?

JOHNS: What do you mean, Delay the investigation into Delay and now what's happened with Murtha, sort of what you're asking is, is this sort of a backlash in other words.

QUESTION: That's right.

JOHNS: You know, a lot of people say this is what you see in the seasons of change in politics. You have a president who's in his second term. The Republicans have been in power for a long time. It was expected that a day would come when they would sort of be under siege from all sides. So perhaps it's a pendulum swing, but there are also a lot of issues out there that frankly need to be resolved, a lot of issues under investigation and so you just have to sort of take it at its merits.

VELSHI: And your name and where you're from.

QUESTION: I'm Jacqueline from Boston and my question piggybacks (INAUDIBLE). With the recent indictment of Scooter Libby and the impending court date for Tom Delay and the decrease of support for the war in Iraq, how do you think the Republicans are going to defend themselves going into 2006?

JOHNS: That's a good question and it all depends on where they are when they get to November of next year. There are a lot of people who say, if you make changes, if you straighten out your problems, if you do go through a court case or you get far enough down the road where there's even an explanation or Scooter Libby somehow makes this thing goes away. It all depends really on where you are. It doesn't necessarily - you know, this is a snapshot. It's just like a poll. Where we are right now could be a lot different down the road. It's hard to say. When you look at it today, a lot of Republicans on Capitol Hill say they're going to have a real problem, but they say we could always change things.

VELSHI: Joe, you know, we often think, those of us who don't live in Washington, always think that Washington can be very insular and you and Barbara cover very specific things and yet they are - there are so many different topics that you have to be on top of, how do you take that snapshot and understand that it's one point in time? How do you now leave at the end of the day and say, this is the worst day for this administration or for this Congress? How do you know where it fits into the grand scheme of things?

JOHNS: Well, the truth of it is, you don't. I mean that's the truth. It's hard to say always what's a really important story.

STARR: But it is interesting for both you and me. I think the snapshot is right now, the only story is the war in Iraq. Nobody's talking Social Security. Nobody's talking health care reform. Alito is sort of out there in the midst.

VELSHI: But typically that would be the biggest story. In a regular world, the appointment of Supreme Court...

STARR: It would be the huge story, but no one's paying a lot of attention. So I guess the question is, by November, can the president make the election about anything other than Iraq? We don't know now what news will happen.

JOHNS: And you know, you well know that there are people talking about a timetable for pulling out. There are people talking about laying down a groundwork for change during these next elections. And then that's going to be the key I think. I mean the key is whether people see real change on the issue of Iraq. We've also had Katrina. We've had a very bad season for these Republicans. If they can try to fix some of the things that happened down in the south...

STARR: (INAUDIBLE)

JOHNS: Right, yeah. But things could change.

VELSHI: And November is a long way away. You can bet that on Barbara's beat, the generals at the Pentagon are keeping a close eye on this political debate over the war and the polls. What do they see and what do they say? Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr is back on that story in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: We are on the story here at the George Washington University. Now you can walk from here across the Potomac River to the Pentagon. Barbara Starr spends her time there on the story of the war and the military decision makers. Have a look at Barbara's notebook.

STARR: What is perhaps most interesting is the number of top commanders, senior Army generals now publicly expressing their concerns about the public debate over the war.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The debate (INAUDIBLE) is disturbing, but after all, we are a democracy and that is what democracy is about is people will have differences of opinion. The (INAUDIBLE) is actually becoming much more nuanced. There has been progress in Iraq, very difficult to judge exactly where the progress has been made and really how capable those Iraqi security forces are going to be next year.

While we continue to see these daily violent attacks in Iraq, this week one of them occurred right in front of the TV camera. There was a ceremony in Tikrit. Top U.S. and Iraqi commanders had gathered and there was a mortar attack. Fortunately, no one was injured, but what we saw was a typical day in Iraq. Everyone went to duck and cover and get away from the danger.

VELSHI: Duck and cover, interesting story. Let's go right to our audience. Sir, your name, where you're from and your question.

QUESTION: My name is Art. I'm from Claremont (ph), California. The administration continues to ask us to stay the course in Iraq to see the mission through to completion. My question is, what exactly is the mission and how will we know when it's completed?

STARR: You know, that's a terrific question because that's what it really gets to right now and I think it gets to the question of what the American people are asking. The answer of course is that you only know when it's over. The stated mission in Iraq for the military is right now is to train the Iraqi security forces to take over and be able to handle their own country's security needs, to put in a political, stable, democratically elected Iraqi government, probably the first one in such a large country in the Middle East.

But how do you know when an insurgency is really over? How many weeks, how many months have to go by of peace before you can say, OK, now everything's fine. Everything's ready. Most people believe it will be years, but will U.S. forces have to stay at least in these numbers, 150, 000 right now or so for years? It's a question that nobody can answer and all the military commanders we talked to say, that is why they can't have a timetable. You cannot put an artificial timetable on it, because who knows. You'll only know once it happens.

JOHNS: Barbara, one of the things that John Murtha said to me when he made his big announcement was that he started changing his mind when he went over to Iraq this past summer and talked with the commanders and I got the idea reading between the lines that what he was saying is that the commanders are suggesting to some people perhaps privately, that the war is unwinable from their view. Do you think the commanders are saying that?

STARR: Most commanders I think now three years later define winning a little bit different than they did going in. Now as our questioner points out, you have an insurgency. You have this violence go on. You're not going to defeat the insurgency. No insurgency has been defeated by American military power. That's not what makes insurgents give up. It will be defeated by economic and political progress and many years of working away at it. So commanders are looking at it I think much more introspectively, much more skeptically and looking at what their end game is, how long can they really stay? How long can the military in a volunteer force, sustain all of this for how many years and at what point is their best military advice, we've done as much as we can. They don't believe they're there yet. But somewhere out on the horizon, that day will come.

VELSHI: Sir, your name and your question and where you're from.

QUESTION: I'm James. I'm also from Claremont, California. And my question is, you think that Congressman Murtha had the approval of Pentagon brass to make his call for a speedy withdrawal?

STARR: Based on the reaction I saw in the hallways, no. I don't think he did. Congressman Murtha as many people in this audience already know, is a highly decorated combat officer. He is one of the most respected and he is very, very well known to the military.

It's our understanding behind the scenes. He was given, he had been to Iraq and then he was given a briefing by the Pentagon brass about the current situation in Iraq. And it's worth knowing that they bring in congressmen and senators very often and routinely tell them behind the scenes what's going on so they can go out there and make informed public statements. But what happened is, once they briefed Congressman Murtha, he came to his own judgments and his own opinions.

VELSHI: Sir, your name and where you're from.

QUESTION: My name's Eric from Houston, Texas. My question was, with respect to the general's concern with the falling support, with falling support in Iraq, is this causing bad morale for the troops? Are they aware of this?

STARR: You know, that is a terrific question. Our correspondents in Iraq have been asking this now for several weeks and the answer is not yet, but the generals are concerned because they want to know before it happens. But as many people probably understand, pardon me, that when a soldier's out in the field, a Marine's out in the field, fighting on the front line, they're not fighting for national policy. They're not fighting for democracy in the Middle East. They're a 20- year old kid and they're fighting to keep their buddy on their left and their buddy on their right alive and keep them, all three of them alive until they can all finish their tour of duty and come home. For the individual guy on the front combat line, that's what this war is all about and that's what their concerns are. But there are much deeper, broader concerns on this higher level.

VELSHI: You know, our colleague Aneesh Raman is embedded with some troops right now in Iraq over Thanksgiving and asking that question and he says that they're aware that the debate is going on here at home and a lot of them felt it's not unhealthy. It's a good thing that in this system the debate is going on. But absolutely what you said. They're still there as far as they're concerned to do their job. They come home. They come back to the base and if they make it back safely that's a good day for them.

STARR: Absolutely.

VELSHI: We're going to be talking more about the war. Later on, we're going to go to Crawford, Texas to talk to Elaine Quijano who covers the president. Now up next, you might be looking for a break from all of this and you might want that break on the big screen. Sibila Vargas is back on that story right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: CNN is on the story. Hollywood hopes we will take the occasional break from the world's troubles and escape to our local movie theater. CNN's entertainment correspondent has a tough job. She is our look out on the film beat. Here's Sibila's notebook.

SIBILA VARGAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know what's really great about this time of the year? Not only do you have the holiday movies coming out. It's also Oscar time.

We're keeping our eye again on "Syriana," a political thriller that's already getting an Oscar buzz, "King Kong." Everyone is expecting this to be a gargantuan hit. There's so many ways that we keep up with all movies that are being released. We look at the daily "Variety." We look at the "Hollywood Reporter." We look at all the trade magazines. There is nothing greater to me than sitting down with popcorn and soda and just escaping and just being transported to another world. At the same time, it is work. I mean we have to be on top of every film that comes out because you never know which film is going to make news.

VELSHI: And Sibila is live with us from Los Angeles right now. We have a question from the audience. Your name sir, where you're from and your question.

QUESTION: I'm Greg from Oakville, Virginia and I'd like to know if (INAUDIBLE) will maintain its Christian undertones or if those will be replaced with a more PC feel good message like believe in yourself or something like that.

VARGAS: Well, I got a chance to see it myself. I went to the screening and as a correspondent, we get to do that. That was the big question with Disney. Is this going to be Christian enough? I mean CS Lewis (ph) was a Christian writer. There are so many Christian undertones in this film so they have - we still won't know until it actually comes out how audiences are going to respond to it. Of course, there's the (INAUDIBLE) which is sort of a Christ-like character that resurrects and the kids, the Pavenci (ph) kids are called the sons of Adam and Eve. So of course people are going to get that, but whether it's going to be Christian enough or whether if it's too Christian, that it's going to get audiences to not come to the theaters, we do not know that yet. But from what I saw, I think a lot of people will gravitate towards this film.

VELSHI: Sibila, we have another question from our audience. Sir, your name and where you're from.

QUESTION: Hi. I'm Carl from New York City. When you report on entertainment, how do you manage to keep your, not become wrapped up in the market buzz and report on that instead?

VARGAS: Well luckily we work for CNN, so I think we're always looking for stories that are going to impact groups of people, large groups, small groups. We're not just looking for like box offices giants. We're looking for stories that really mean something. "Syriana" is a story that we're going to keep our eyes on right now, because it's got a political undertones. I mean it's a political thriller and it deals with the corruption and it trades on the global oil industry and we're of course very interested in that. So stories of relevance are stories that we try to look for. "Nardia" (ph) was another example. I mean again, Disney marketing this film to the Christians, to the Christian groups, which of course we learned that that there's a lot of money there. I mean look at the "Passion of the Christ" and how well that film did. Those are the stories that we're going to look after, not just movies that do very well in the box office, but movies that are relevant. And that's the great thing about my job and working at CNN. Had to get a little plug in for us, like we need that.

JOHNS: Sibila, I saw you mentioned "King Kong" there just a minute ago. That seems like a movie that just keeps getting remade over and over again and they're just sort of confident that they're going to make a lot of money on that I guess.

VARGAS: Yeah. It keeps on getting remade. This will be the third remake of this film, but the 1933 version was a hit of epic proportions. It did so incredibly well. It is probably considered one of the most successful films to date. Peter Jackson, the difference between this film, that Peter Jackson has wanted to do this film since 1996. He really wants to stay true to the original. There was a 1976 version starring Jessica Lange. That was the Dino de la Rentis (ph) version which did not stay true to the original and it didn't do very well at the box office and people criticized it for so many reasons.

But this film Peter Jackson has been feverishly trying to make. He finally got to make it with incredible Oscar - I mean we've got Adrian Brody, who is an Oscar winner already. Now Naomi Watts, an Oscar nominee and we've got Jack Black on the cast. So I think this is going to be big and Peter Jackson, "Lord of the Rings," I mean, you know, he's already established himself. He's a great film maker. I think this one is going to be a gargantuan film and gargantuan at the box office.

VELSHI: If one had to choose over again what kind of reporter they'd be, I bet you the three of us here would definitely choose to be you. So just in case anybody in our audience isn't fully convinced, tell us about the part of your job that is the hard work. VARGAS: The hard work? OK, ask the question again. No, I mean, you again, we have to stay on top of every single movie that comes out. You know, you've got to be somewhat of an expert and think about this. This is a $9 billion a year industry, the movie business so I mean we're not only just talking about movies, but we also have to do music and we have to be on top of that. I did the (INAUDIBLE) the other day. I don't listen to everything that's on the radio, but I have to - like at least for that day, become and expert and make sure that I know about hip hop, rock and pop and the whole thing. So, but I love my job. This is what I love to do and I understand how you guys might be just a little envious.

VELSHI: You're absolutely right Sibila. For now we'll just live vicariously through you. Sibila Vargas is our entertainment reporter in Los Angeles. From show biz to President Bush vacationing at his Texas ranch, our Elaine Quijano is back on that story in a moment. We are on the story from Texas to Washington to Los Angeles, but also elsewhere. Take a look.

JEFF KOINANGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ellen Johnson surely becomes not only the first woman president of Africa's oldest Republic. She's also the first female elected president in all of Africa. The man who forced Ellen Johnson (INAUDIBLE) into a run off, George Weah is refusing to concede defeat and is pledging to challenge the election results in court.

JAIME FLORCRUZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Empty supermarket shelves in Hardin City as residents horde water and food. Fear that the city's water supply could be contaminated. Lab tests have confirmed that the toxic chemical benzene has leaked into the Sunwa (ph) River, Hardin's (ph) main source of water supply.

RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): They came dressed in orange, the uniform of their democratic revolution, thousands of Ukrainians, turning out to celebrate its first anniversary and to hear from the man who disfigured face became its symbol.

Nearly two-thirds of Ushika's (ph) supporters say the revolution brought them freedom.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN NEWS ANCHOR, ON THE STORY: Hello, I'm Fredricka Whitefield. Here is what's happening "Now in the News". Two inmates from the county jail in Yakama, Washington, remain on the loose. Two others are back in custody. Tonight the inmates escaped last night after breaking a window and sliding down a makeshift rope made of sheets.

It's been a busy holiday weekend for the world's largest retailer; Wal-Mart expects to post a more than 4 percent gain in that period. That includes after-Thanksgiving frenzy.

It was the first test of a major Palestinian milestone. More than 1,500 people used a newly opened border crossing between Gaza and Egypt today, with no Israeli security check. It is the first time in nearly 40 years the Palestinian have controlled a border.

And later, CNN 25, they said what? We'll take a look back at the 25 most controversial, influential and surprising statements of the past quarter century.

That's a look at what's happening now in the news. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. Now back to more of ON THE STORY.

ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR, ON THE STORY: We are ON THE STORY. On the campus of the George Washington University in the heart of the nation's capital. President Bush is spending his Thanksgiving holiday at the ranch. CNN's Elaine Quijano picked up that assignment. Let's look at her "Notebook".

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Unlike other visits when the president is perhaps hosting a head of state, there aren't really any public events scheduled during these holiday breaks. So, we're very limited and it is likely that we won't see the president much at all until he actually leaves.

The president was in town it is only later in the week that we see Cindy Sheehan come down. So that certainly has affected, perhaps, the number of people who have turned out. What we're seeing now is a smaller protest than what we saw in August.

It's not uncommon, of course, for there to be demonstrators wherever President Bush goes. The difference now, obviously, this is a slower news time and these protestors, as they did back in August are hoping to grab the headlines once again. There is still private property the protestors are still able to go and gather there. So that's initially what has -- the main focus for these demonstrators. They have maintained a presence. They are near the president's ranch, but they are not able to essentially line the road as they did back in August.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELSHI: And Elaine Quijano joins us now, from Texas.

Elaine, thank you. It is so good to have you with us. Barbara?

BARBARA STARR, PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Elaine, I wanted to jump in and ask the first question here, because it has got to be frustrating. You're there, you're covering President Bush. But as I think you mentioned in your reporter's notebook, you're not seeing President Bush. He staying out of sight?

QUIJANO: Well, that's true. And you know, it's not unusual, as I mentioned, during the holidays when the president goes on these trips here to Crawford, that unless there is some kind of public event on his schedule, sometimes he'll go to church nearby at Fort Hood, but other than that you really don't get a lot of access to him.

But at the same time we should mention that White House officials do make themselves available, so even though you don't have that convenience of being able to pop into somebody's office, like you would in Washington. Or pick up the phone and know they are definitely going to be there. They do make themselves available, because they know, obviously any time there is -- let's say, an attack on the president's policy, it is important to come out quickly and we've certainly seen that. Talking about Iraq, that's the big issue right now.

VELSHI: Elaine, we have a question from our audience.

Ma'am, your name and where you're from.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm Imppa (ph), from Houston, Texas. And my question is, any concerns over the negative effects of anti-war activists like Cindy Sheehan to our soldiers and their families?

QUIJANO: Certainly, that has been a point that has been raised. We should tell you that Cindy Sheehan is very presence here in Crawford has drawn counter demonstrators. Just a handful, but people who have come out and they have wanted to show that they are in support of President Bush and his policies.

And they raise that very point, they say, look, what Cindy Sheehan went through is very difficult. She lost her son, Casey in the Iraq war and we understand that this has been a difficult ordeal for her. At the same time, though, they say, think of the troops overseas when they hear about dissent, when they hear about a debate going on that their moral is affected.

That is the belief of some of the counter-demonstrators who have turned out, like I say, only a handful of them who have actually shown up here. But that sentiment certainly echoed across the country by people who support what the president is trying to in Iraq.

VELSHI: And your name, and where you're from?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm Barbara and I'm from Stevensville, Michigan. Along those same lines, I was wondering if you could compare the level of support that Cindy Sheehan and her group appears to have this weekend, as compared to their last protest in Crawford?

QUIJANO: Well, what I can tell you is about the numbers. We're definitely seeing a very big difference. Back in August, at one point, in the height of the protest in August when Cindy Sheehan had already been here -- it should be noted -- for not just days, but really for weeks. There was one point there were thousands of demonstrators who turned out from across the country and decided they wanted to make a stand here in Crawford.

Not so during this holiday weekend. What we have seen instead, is perhaps a few dozen, perhaps 40, 50, 60 people show up and turn out on the days when Cindy Sheehan has had activities. But again, it is important to note, that you're looking at a different dynamic here. On the one hand, they haven't really been here for very long. The president has only been here for a few days versus in August, he was here for several weeks. At the same time, what's interesting to note, there is no big PR firm like there was in August, that was helping to organize the massive number of people to come here. A tremendous undertaking, now, it is a much more sort of grass roots effort.

VELSHI: Are you expecting that you'll hear something from the president or the administration with respect to these protests?

QUIJANO: Well, perhaps not with respect to these protests, specifically. But we should mention on Wednesday, he's going to be making a big speech in Annapolis and he'll be talking about the war on terror and continuing to defend his Iraq policy, Ali.

VELSHI: Elaine Quijano, good to see you in Crawford, Texas.

President Bush wasn't headed to the mall on his Thanksgiving break, but 10s of millions the rest of us went shopping. What are we buying? What are we spending our money on? I'm back on that story, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOE JOHNS, CNN ANCHOR, ON THE STORY: We're ON THE STORY. Many Americans this holiday week were out spending money. For many businesses this is make or break time. Keeping watch on the economy, our business expert, Ali Velshi. Here's "Ali's Notebook".

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VELSHI (on camera): It is easy to convince people that these are good stories to do because it relates to almost everybody who is watching us. I don't know who doesn't shop.

(Voice over): The consumer is interested in the personal story. It's about me telling you what you want and what you want is to know whether you can get a better price on what you want to buy. Americans are specialists at shopping.

(On camera): Winter is here and so the Christmas shopping season, the holiday shopping season.

(Voice over): Black Friday, the day after Thanksgiving, is typically known as the busiest shopping day of the year. It's called Black Friday because it was the day, traditionally, where retailers went into the black. We track very carefully how they do on this particular weekend, to get a sense of how they're going to do for the rest of the year.

Normally, when we look at business trends we look at surveys and government reports and things like that. In retail -- you look at Wal-Mart, mainly. Wal-Mart sees 130 million consumers a week. So they're trends really tell you a lot more than most stores.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELSHI: Some of those 130 million consumers it sees a week were getting a little rough with each other this time. The sales are getting people pretty excited and sometimes people get a little carried away with themselves.

Sir, your question, where you are from?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, I'm Sean. I'm from Aventura (ph), Florida. My question is how do you distinguish between marketing and reporting. The Xbox 360 is just one of many new products on the market today. How is it that it gets all this coverage, which equates to free advertising?

VELSHI: That is a great, great question. And in the reporting of business that is a question we face everyday. We want to talk about a new trend or a new thing. It's someone's company, someone is getting air time with us.

Let me tell you, the Xbox 360, doesn't need my help. This thing has been selling out of control since it was released earlier in the week. But that is something that our producers and -- we all look at together. Every time we make a decision to do a story, is this just free marketing? Is there a way to balance the story so that you are telling the viewer what it is without just being an ad. We don't want to do that. We don't want to be ads, we want to try and inform people as much as possible.

Sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I'm Tom from Stevensville, Michigan.

Your thoughts on General Motors? They announced massive layoffs this week, 30,000 people. That helped shrink the company based on their market share. They still have significant fixed costs with retiree health care, etc cetera. Your thoughts on whether they're doing enough and what might be next for them?

VELSHI: General Motors is an American icon. This company, for over 70 years, has been the world's biggest automaker. It was the first company in the world to make more than $1 billion. When General Motors lays off 30,000 people, that is massive.

And you're absolutely right. That doesn't solve General Motors problems. It is in so much hot water that a lot of people thought that the company was going to go bankrupt. It had to do this just to stave off those rumors. But you're absolutely right, it has a lot of problems. A lot of people don't buy American cars anymore. Japanese cars are sold much more -- they're just -- they sell more of them in the United States than they do American cars. And next year, Toyota is going to become the world's biggest carmaker.

That's like Wal-Mart. When I say 130 million people a week go through Wal-Mart, GM is part of the pulse of this economy and 30,000 people get laid off, that's serious.

STARR: So when you see those blips in the economy, and plus most of the year we've heard about problems in creating new jobs. We've heard about the ups and downs in the stock market. What's the real -- and, gas prices. What's the outlook for the holiday shopping season?

VELSHI: Well, the holiday shopping season, interestingly enough, is looking OK from the beginning. Because the American consumer is the most resilient creature on the face of the earth. The American consumer will shop through anything. And I mean, literally anything, destruction, 9/11, war, despair, possible recession, high gas prices. Nothing stops the American consumer.

But when people keep losing their jobs, other people get scared that they might loose their jobs. And then you start thinking about saving a little bit. That's what the retailers are worried about, with high gas costs, a cold weather snap, high heating costs, the retailers want to make sure that you keep shopping, so they're dropping prices. This is a price war.

JOHNS: You know, the conventional wisdom has always been that Black Friday is the big day, the big shopping day, but I've been hearing something about, like a day or two before Christmas being the biggest shopping day. Are trends changing?

VELSHI: Well, they absolutely are. What it is, is Black Friday is actually Black Friday and Saturday. The Friday and Saturday after Thanksgiving, together, as a whole, out paces other days. But it is really the Saturday before Christmas. Things are changing because we know the prices are going down. And it is a "chicken & the egg" between the consumer and the retailer. The other thing is the Internet. You can shop right to the last minute. Yeah, things are changing. Don't worry if you weren't out there buying things.

(LAUGHTER)

If you want to find out what is booming, well, like I said, it's the Internet. When we come back, we are ON THE STORY, online with Internet Reporter Abbi Tatton. She's going to be talking about how the bloggers are trying to fill in the blanks that they claim that we and other news organizations fail to fill.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: We are ON THE STORY, online with Internet Reporter Abbi Tatton.

Abby, we got a share of criticism about the stories we choose to cover and those that we don't. What are you seeing and hearing this week on the Internet?

ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Well, this week and every week, Ali, seeing and hearing many, many voices and stories and accounts. There are, by one estimate, around 20 million blogs out there. Even if that is wildly exaggerated, there are millions of millions of people with opportunities to go online to tell their own stories, their own reporting, their own accounts of what is going on in their lives.

Now, that's a lot to sift through, but it is available out there for you to read. Some diverse voices that are out there, "Raising Yusef", this is a Palestinian mother living in Gaza. French bloggers during the Paris riots gave us an insight into what was happening that we may not get somewhere else.

Now, joining us to talk about these global conversations that are going on, are two bloggers that know a lot about this. Rebecca Mackinnon is a former television reporter; she is now the co-founder of a site, GlobalVoices. She is joining us via her web cam from Cambridge, Massachusetts. And also Joi Ito, a Tokyo-based blogger, usually, he's now joining us also via web cam from his Vancouver hotel room.

Rebecca, if I could just start with you. Tell us what Globalvoices is and what can someone get from your site that they may not get from somewhere like CNN?

REBECCA MACKINNON, CO-FOUNDER, GLOBALVOICES: Well, GlobalVoicesOnline is a what we call a meta-blog. And what it means to do is to be your guide curator, really, to the most interesting conversations happening on the blogs outside the United States and Western Europe, because while I think many Americans are mainly familiar with American bloggers, actually all around the world people are going online and talking and wanting to be heard and there is -- there are a lot of people, particularly in the Middle East and Africa who are frustrated that the international media portrays their country or portrays them in ways they don't agree with.

And so they're going online and they're blogging, many of them in English, talking about their perspective on what's happening in their country and they're perspective on the world. So we have an international team of bloggers who are tracking these conversations and linking to them every day and helping you find the most interesting stuff out there.

TATTON: Joi, if I can turn to you, you are one of these people who is talking online, but you've also written for example for "The New York Times", in an op-ed there. What do you do differently when you are blogging on your site from when you are, for example, writing an article or an op-ed for a newspaper?

JOI ITO, JOIITO.COM: Well, a blog is really is, as Rebecca was saying, a conversation. And so when I write something I know that it is the beginning of a long conversation. So, I'll usually write -- before I even completely finish researching an article. Whereas if you are writing something like an op-ed, you do want to finish checking all of your facts and you're kind of stuck where you are.

The other problem is that op-eds in newspapers get very little feedback from the audience. I think Tom Compton (ph) wrote on my blog that "The International Herald Tribune" only gets about 30 letters to the editor a day, while on my blog I get more than that on comments on each of my posts.

So, you really -- on the one hand you really have to involve the audience. The audience becomes part of the news. And a lot of times you'll have people (INAUDIBLE) sources actually, commenting on your blog. So a blog post is not just post, it is all of the comments together, plus all of the conversations stretch out across the blog.

VELSHI: I'm going to bring you feedback right now, from our audience.

Your name and where you're from?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm Eliot. I'm from Minneapolis, Minnesota. And I'm curious to what degree does a news organization like CNN consult with blogs? And is there a formal process for deciding which stories to focus on?

TATTON: I'm going to throw that right to you bloggers. I mean, CNN obviously, right now is talking to the bloggers.

Rebecca, we can start with you.

MACKINNON: That's right. I think blogs are a tremendous source for stories and ideas and conversation. And I think that there is a wonderful relationship to be developed between blogs and news organizations like CNN and many others. And a lot of news organizations are starting to experiment.

s Crawford Holiday Is Quiet As Fewer Anti-War Demonstrators Turn Out. Preliminary Data on Black Friday Looks Good For Retailers. Bloggers, Journalists Compliment Each Other As Information Turns to "Conversation Because, you know, what's happening is, for instance, you can have a very first-hand account, for instance, on GlobalVoices, some Egyptian bloggers posted first-hand accounts of some violence that happened in an election. And so when they post that stuff and the journalist can see that, and they might get new information that they might not necessarily have had.

TATTON: Joi, how do you see this relationship?

ITO: I mean, I can turn it around a little bit. I see it as a great source of stories for blogs. And CNN can kick off a story, but then what happens is the bloggers continue and dig deeper. For instance, the (INAUDIBLE) protest in China, started a blog post and Chinese and Koreans and we all got in. And by the end of it we decided we were going to try to write a joint history together. And we started a project.

And so I think a lot of what the mainstream media does for us is they can send people or topics (ph) that we sometimes don't have access to, but then once a story gets synchronized on the blogs you get a bunch of people mobilized to cause action.

And I would urge mainstream media, a lot of people are doing it, but to see how their articles or their stories are get followed up on blogs. That is also quite interesting.

TATTON: Joi Ito, Rebecca Mackinnon, that's very much for joining us -- Ali.

VELSHI: Abbi thanks so much for joining us. Just ahead we're going to be looking for ON THE STORY. We're going to tell you what we're going to be doing in the next few days. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) VELSHI: OK, let's take a quick look ahead ON THE STORY.

Barbara, what do you have planned?

STARR: Saddam Hussein goes back on trail Monday in a courtroom in Baghdad.

VELSHI: And that is going to keep you busy. How about you, Joe?

JOHNS: Well, Michael Brown, the former FEMA director -- remember him? He's now going to be a consultant on emergency preparedness.

VELSHI: OK?

(LAUGHTER)

VELSHI: That will keep you busy.

JOHNS: What about you?

VELSHI: From here on, 'til Christmas it is a lot of stuff about shopping. And of course, all sorts of business news stories that we never know what they're going to be. We look forward to seeing you both. And thanks to all of you in our audience.

To out colleagues and the audience here at the George Washington University, we offer them our thanks and we thank you for watching ON THE STORY. We are back, each week, Saturday night and Sunday afternoon.

Straight ahead, a check on what's making news right now.

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