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On the Story
Correspondents Discuss Stories Behind the Stories
Aired February 18, 2006 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ON THE STORY is coming up in just a moment, but first a look at what's happening right now in the news. A ferocious winter storm is roaring through the northeast this evening, 160,000 homes are without power and the temperatures are plummeting.
Today, Hamas took control of the Palestinian parliament. Tomorrow Israel plans to consider sanctions against the Palestinians. Israeli officials are looking at barring Palestinian workers and sealing off Gaza once again and stopping any Gaza development projects Israel is working on.
These people probably won't be the next power ball multi- millionaire, but they're still buying tickets. The jackpot is a record $365 million. The drawing is tonight at 11:00 Eastern.
Coming up next ON THE STORY, a look at the fallout over Vice President' Dick Cheney's hunting accident and the way it was handled. That's coming up at 7:00 p.m. Eastern and at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, "CNN Presents, Saving My Town," the fight for Bay St. Louis. CNN's Katherine Koch looks at her Mississippi town's efforts to rebuild after Katrina.
I'm Carol Lin. Now ON THE STORY.
JOE JOHNS, CNN ANCHOR, ON THE STORY: This is CNN and we are on the story. From the campus of the George Washington University in the heart of the nation's capital, our correspondents have the stories behind the stories they're covering. Suzanne Malveaux is on the story of Vice President Cheney wounding a buddy in a hunting accident and firing up a media and political whirlwind.
Internet reporter Jacki Schechner looks at how coverage of the Cheney story drew fire online.
Jamie McIntyre gives a behind the scenes look at his travels to North Africa with Defense Secretary Rumsfeld. Kathleen Koch talks about her "CNN Presents special, "Saving My Town." Katrina erased buildings, but not the spirit of her friends and neighbors.
Ted Rowlands is on the story of how the bad guys may be tuning into TV crime shows to get away with murder.
And Alessio Vinci is our Olympic champion, from the competition to the ceremony, to the parties of Torino.
Welcome. I'm Joe Johns. With me here, Suzanne Malveaux, Jamie McIntyre and Kathleen Koch. Our correspondents will be taking questions from the studio audience drawn from visitors, college students and people across Washington. First, Vice President Dick Cheney accidentally shot a hunting buddy. The friend went to the hospital and Cheney went quiet until he became the target of almost every journalist in town, his political foes, even some of his allies. Suzanne Malveaux was at the White House. Here's her reporter's notebook.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This really wasn't about being scooped by the local media. This was about trying to get information about the vice president of the United States involved in a shooting in a timely manner to the public. That's where the frustrating was. It was really unbelievable, because it was completely charged in the briefing room. Everyone was energized, but the bottom line, everyone was trying to get the details of this story and it was a very difficult story to do. In the evening, the story really was, material for the comedians, and even I was lampooned.
Are you saying she's lying?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You ought to check with her.
MALVEAUX: Are you sure you're saying that's not correct?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Luckily (INAUDIBLE) the line of questioning was shut down when Vice President Dick Cheney shot that woman in the face.
MALVEAUX: I had e-mails, phone calls about it, more about being on the "Daily Show" than covering any other story on CNN in a long time. Clearly, during the day, it was serious. But it was what people were looking for was just simple information, some clear story line about what had happened.
JOHNS: Suzanne Malveaux joins us now. That's pretty good. A guest appearance on another network. Was this, though, in all seriousness, was it journalistic jealousy, the reporters just mad because the local guys got the story first?
MALVEAUX: You know, it's funny, because I actually got more calls and e-mail about my appearance on the "Daily Show" than any other story I've done in a really long time. A lot of people thought it was very funny. But no, I don't think it was local jealousy over a local news outlet. There really was, there was a lot of confusion in the early days, especially the first Sunday when the shooting -- we found out the shooting had happened. I was on the phone with Cheney's spokeswoman some 15 minutes after AP wire, the story broke. And there were just all kinds of conflicting information here and the bottom line is is that, he's at least the second most powerful person in the country. This is the vice president. We cover the president. We cover the vice president and he was involved in a shooting. It's legitimate to try to get that information out as quickly as possible to the public.
JOHNS: I have a question from the audience now. What's your name? What's your question?
QUESTION: Ted Shipp from Alexandria, Virginia. Had the vice president and his office been more forthcoming in the immediate aftermath about the details of the shooting, do you think it would still be the story it is right now?
MALVEAUX: Absolutely not because I think if they had an opportunity to clear up the facts initially and if they had done so in a timely way, it might have been a story that was, say, two days or even if we were still talking about it today, it would not have really had the kind of legs that developed over the week, and a lot of that was because there was frustration inside the White House. They were pushing for Cheney's office and Cheney to come forward and the Republicans jumped on it as well.
JOHNS: There's a person standing next to you. What is your name?
QUESTION: I'm Marissa Reeves from Great Falls, Montana. Do you feel that the shooting humanizes Vice President Cheney by showing his human failings or does it portray him as incompetent or insensitive?
MALVEAUX: Wow, that's a tough question. I think what it shows, especially when we saw him do the interview is that just how he was very shaken by the whole thing and you did see an emotional side to Cheney, which you normally don't see. I think the part of incompetence, clearly, there was a lot of frustration how this was handled in terms of the media and even people inside of the White House who I talked to that were very upset about what was going on, really angry that they didn't have a chance to explain this initially and just in all fairness, there was a plan, initially to put this forward right away. Karl Rove, the deputy chief of staff was drafting a statement that Saturday evening. Cheney said that he wanted to tend to his friend and that he was going to talk to the sheriff's department the next morning. So they scrapped that plan.
The next day he was also going to make a statement at the hospital. That didn't happen. The news broke late in the day. And then you had that delay for two days where there really was a news vacuum and you saw those kind -- fireworks that went on in the briefing. And it wasn't until after his friend had suffered a mild heart attack that they initially had that first statement even acknowledging that the shooting had happened
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Suzanne, I was wondering if, behind the scenes and I know you talk to a lot of people behind the scenes at the White House, has it come up at all since this shooting, as to whether or not it's a really good idea for our vice president, our president, the leaders of our country to be involved in hobbies as dangerous as this? Obviously, in this case, the vice president shot someone, but say it had gone the other way around. I mean accidents can happen; they did happen. Is this safe?
MALVEAUX: He's -- you know, Cheney does what he wants to do. (INAUDIBLE) Obviously, they track --
JOHNS: He can be speeding for that matter. There's a lot of dangerous things you can do.
MALVEAUX: Well, they track every single move that he makes. Obviously, they have their medical team. And you know, they are there watching every move and it's a dangerous sport, but he's done it for three decades.
JOHNS: ... jump in. What's your name?
QUESTION: Amy Salzman (ph) from Lennox (ph), Iowa. I was wondering, do you think that Cheney's handling of the accident has seriously undermined his power in the Bush White House?
MALVEAUX: I think that what's it's done is that the question about whether or not he's become a political liability has reemerged. And I know that that's something that Republicans have talked about, even the former press secretaries of Ronald Reagan and the first President Bush came forward and said this is a distraction. This was not handled well. I think that's the kind of discussion that's going on. It also demonstrates just how much power he does have, the fact that despite people who are advising him to do otherwise, he handled it in the way that he thought was appropriate
JAMIE McINTRYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: But of course neither he nor Bush are up for re-election. So my wife said to me yesterday, she said, imagine if it had been the other way around. Imagine if his friend had shot Cheney. I think we would have gotten the news right away.
JOHNS: Safe to say, all the fireworks in the briefing room, a lot of people wonder is that theater? Is it the real thing? How can they get so mad over something like that?
MALVEAUX: It was frustrating. I think it was really frustrating that you could not really get a clear story line about this and that we were counting on, someone, the ranch owner to kind of figure out and, some of the difficult questions here and there was conflicting information coming from the ranch owner and other people. So, part of it, I think is very genuine, part of it is a little bit of the theatrics and - but that's from an individual basis. Some people are into the theatrics and others, it's a serious situation.
JOHNS: We're going to stay with this for a minute. Coming up, we want to see what our audience thinks about the coverage of the Cheney shooting story. Also we'll go to Internet reporter Jacki Schechner for what's happening on the story online.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOHNS: You are on the story. Which correspondents do you want to see? Which topics do you want to hear? E-mail us at onthestory@cnn.com. We're going to ask our audience here whether they feel coverage of the Cheney shooting was appropriate. But first, we're going to go on the story online and our Internet reporter Jacki Schechner. Jacki, what do you see?
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Joe, plenty of people thought we went overboard in our Cheney coverage and they wrote about it online on the Internet and via blog, one of those was Alan Stewart Carl. He blogs at maverickviews.blog.com. He also contributes to a centrist group blog known as donklefans(ph).com. He's actually joining us today via webcam from San Antonio, Texas. Alan, thanks for being here. First off, where did we go wrong?
ALAN STEWART CARL, MAVERICKVIEWS.BLOGSPOT.COM: I think the beginning it was OK to cover it the way it was, but it kept going on and on day after day. My problem with it, I kept asking what national interest was at stake here? The vice president himself was not injured. The running of the country was not endangered in any way, so what was the need to push the story the lead story day after day.
SCHECHNER: Now, you're talking about national interest. You're in Texas. How is this playing out locally versus what you're seeing in the national media or on cable networks like CNN?
CARL: Not a lot of people down here have been particularly interested in the story. They've been following it, but not to the degree in which it's being reported on national media. The local media hasn't been pushing it, obviously they've been covering it, but it hasn't been the lead story down here.
JOHNS: Suzanne Malveaux, what do you think? What's your view from the White House?
MALVEAUX: I guess I have a question here. I mean, what was the -- I know there was a lot of discussion in the blogs over the whole issue of drinking. Do you know why that got started? Why was there such an obsession over the drinking factor?
CARL: I think people were looking for Cheney to be guilty in some way not just an accident. I think there's a lot of people out there who don't particularly like Dick Cheney and they would like to think that he's incompetent or dangerous and I think the drinking angle was the way to play into that.
JOHNS: Now let's see how the audience here views this story. And the question I want to ask you and I'd like to get a show of hands, how many of you think the coverage of the Cheney story was appropriate? Just raise your hand. And on the other side of it, how many of you think there was too much coverage of the Cheney story. Clearly, more of you think there was too much coverage. Let's start with you sir. What's your name?
QUESTION: My name's Justin Edwards.
JOHNS: Stand up. So tell me, where do you come from that view? Why? Why do you think there was too much coverage?
QUESTION: There's so many bigger issues that we could be focused on, both international and domestic, more important than the vice president accidentally shooting one of his friends.
JOHNS: And on the other side, there was a person right here. What's your name?
QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)
JOHNS: And you're on the other side of this. You think the coverage was about right?
QUESTION: I think so, because it is an important issue and we ought to know as a nation what the vice president is up to.
JOHNS: Thank you so much. Jacki, back to you. Now, you see, at least, this is an unscientific survey certainly, but here in this audience, more people think the coverage was a bit too much.
SCHECHNER: I want to turn it back to Alan. I have been reading a lot this week and this has actually been a very partisan discussion and he considers himself an independent, doesn't have a dog in the fight so to speak. Alan, what have you been reading and how does that differ with what you personally bring to the table?
CARL: I think the reaction was pretty partisan. I think a lot of people coming from the left side really wanted to portray Dick Cheney in a bad light and use this as a way to voice their general perceptions of him, that he is incompetent, that he is not careful, that he is dangerous. Those on the right of course, generally could spin the White House no matter what and that includes Dick Cheney and so they try to spin it back on people on the left and said, oh, look how crazy they are. Now for me and the rest of us in the center, I think most of us looked at the story and said, OK, that is certainly a story, that's dramatic, but it doesn't really need the level of coverage it has, because it doesn't really fall into national interest. And as an independent, I really don't have the desire to make Dick Cheney look bad in any way, and in fact, I don't always defend him, but in this case, I ended up defending him, because I thought that he was being unfairly criticized and people were using this story to attack him unfairly.
SCHECHNER: Alan, thank you so much for sharing what you blog online with us now via web cam. We really appreciate it. Joe, we'll send it back to you.
JOHNS: Jacki, Alan Stewart Carl, thank much. We'll see you again next week.
We're going to turn now from quail hunting to other sports, the winter Olympics. Our Alessio Vinci is back on the story from Torino in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We were barred from filming inside the stadium, so we installed our equipment on a tram stop, our satellite, the phones, that allowed us to go live, our cameras, just outside the main venue. We could see the lights. We could hear the music. We could feel the pulse but we could not see what was happening inside.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOHNS: CNN is on the story. From here in Washington to the winter Olympics, our Alessio Vinci has been keeping watch for us in Torino. Here's his reporter's notebook.
VINCI: The hardest part of telling the story of course is that CNN does not have access to the actual footage of the competition. So the sports reporters that are here with me in Torino, Mark McKay (ph) and Larry Smith, coverage the stories by using stills and lots of graphics. It forces you to think outside the box and constantly find people, places that are just as compelling as the main story of the day.
For example, when Ted Ligety (ph) won the first ski gold medal for the U.S., we couldn't show the race, but we managed to get inside the bar where the U.S. ski team was celebrating the victory. Next thing you know, he shows up, makes a speech to a cheering crowd and I even got the chance to interview him and spend a few moments in a more relaxed environment. For us, that's the story too. So the (INAUDIBLE) was, when the Olympic flame finally burst to light and the fireworks went off just as I was doing a live report. And the feeling was at least for me who was there, that I was right in the middle of things.
JOHNS: Alessio Vinci joins us now from Torino. Kathleen Koch, first question goes to you.
KOCH: Alessio, what I'd like to know about is how difficult is it, the logistics of covering an event of this size. You have venues scattered over many miles. How do you get around? Are you relying on buses. I mean obviously, the bus, as we learned with the figure skater, weird this week, the buses can be very unreliable.
VINCI: That's correct. The venues, the competition venues are scattered between here and the city of Torino which you can reach easily, obviously by a bus ride or even a taxi ride or up in the mountains which are about two hours away from here. Most reporters rely on buses provided by the organizing committee and reporters will be using those bus have been complaining about long drives and sometimes bus drivers who are not from Torino, not from the region, getting lost. We actually use our own car and that makes it a lot easier, especially because we managed to get some passes through some contacts that we had here that allows us to drive all the way up to the venues with our own car and carrying all the equipment we do, it's a lot easier for us. But many colleagues have complained about long bus rides and that's a bit of a logistical problem for them.
McINTYRE: Alessio, it's Jamie. What do the athletes do when they're not competing? What do you see them doing when you're seeing them behind the scenes. I know you can't get to all these different events at once. So what are the athletes doing in their spare time?
VINCI: Well, first of all, most of the athletes who are away from Torino are the Olympic villages outside of the mountains. Those who actually win a medal, after the races, they have to come all the way down to Torino where the awards ceremony, the medals ceremony takes place. And for them it's actually a pretty long drive as well. What they do is obviously, they relax. They spend time with their trainers. They have the so-called Olympic family with them, which are teammates, of course, friends and people who are with them. And on a few occasions, we also saw them, some who won medals for example, partying in bars was their teammates. So it's a little bit of a way for them to get away from the day to day training, but of course, we never see them before the races. We tend to see them always after the races and those who won are usually made available to us.
JOHNS: Question from the audience, what's your name?
QUESTION: My name is Carolyn Curly (ph). I'm from Wakill (ph), New York. My question is, with all the accidents occurring at the Olympics, is there a concern for athlete safety?
VINCI: Well, if you talk about security in terms of possible terrorist attacks, yes, there is a lot of security. The area where the athletes train or stay or sleep is completely sealed and off limits not only to journalists, but also to any person who is trying to approach it. In terms of their physical safety, of course, if they get injured during a race or training, there are the highest standards of medical care here. Recently, one of the U.S. skiers fell during training. She was immediately helicoptered to a hospital here in Torino, so certainly from that point of view, they're very well kept. Of course they have also their own personal doctors with them.
JOHNS: Another question from --
QUESTION: Amanda from The Catholic University. I was wondering if there are any athletes you're looking forward to meeting at the Olympics in Torino?
VINCI: Well, one of the biggest heroes, at least I had was Alberto Tomba (ph) who was a one-time ski champion and won several gold medals during previous Olympics and actually, I was lucky enough to meet him here on my first day on assignment covering stories about sponsors, because he's now basically an ambassador for one of the sponsors here in Torino. Another person I would like to meet is Bode (ph) Miller, simply because he has been so much spoken about before these Olympics, that I would like to see him in person and be able to talk to him just as I did for example with Ted Legity when he won his ski first medal. So these are the two athletes that you probably can relate to that I would like to meet if I could again.
KOCH: And Alessio, is there any one moment that stands out in your mind that you're always going to take with you?
VINCI: You know, I think for the time being, I mean, the opening ceremony, I guess that was the biggest moment for us, simply because, even if we were, sort of outside of the event, because of the fact that we can't really access these events because we do not have the rights. At the moment when the torch lit and when the fireworks started, I mean it really felt that we were right in the middle of it and it was quite amazing, because it's sort of -- after having covered this city for a few weeks before the Olympic games started, you know and hearing the people complaining about the construction works and all the hardship they had to go through because of the preparations, to see the torch lighting up and the fireworks starting, it really felt like, OK, this is the beginning, this is the start. Let's see how the city is going, is doing, and that, to me, was sort of like this is the beginning and I really was looking forward to see how, not just the city itself, but also the citizens were going to fair during these two weeks.
JOHNS: Alessio Vinci, thanks for that. We'll be watching for your reports.
From Olympic tests of skill, how about this test of stamina. Jamie McIntyre's trip across North Africa with Defense Secretary Don Rumsfeld. Let's go inside and take a look. We'll show you kind of what we do when we're traveling with the secretary of defense. Jamie is back on that story in a moment. We're on the story from Washington, Italy and Los Angeles this week and also elsewhere. Take a look.
JEFF KOINANGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The h5n1 virus is spreading. Health workers arrived in fully outfitted at a farm in northern Nigeria where the bird flu virus has contaminated the entire chicken flock. They are then carted into pits like this and tossed in with the hope that no one would be desperate enough to climb down and drag out the contaminated chickens for personal consumption.
STAN GRANT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The protest here showed that what began as anger at Denmark over a cartoon of the prophet Mohammed considered blasphemous, is now much more. It has become a rallying cry for anti-western sentiment. Pakistani officials are warning more protests will be met with an iron fist.
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Next year, Japan's baby boomers will start to retire and all male cooking classes like this have become so popular, you can only win a place by lottery. Unfortunately, that's not the only thing rising in popularity after retirement. So is divorce. Divorce is expected to surge in 2007 when a new law allows a wife to get half her husband's pension.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: More of ON THE STORY in just a moment.
But first, a look at what's happening right now in the news.
These people probably won't be the next Powerball multi-million dollar winner, but they're still buying tickets. The jackpot is a record $365 million. The drawing is tonight at 11:00 Eastern.
Heavy rains and deep mud, the threat of a typhoon, all are making it harder to search for mudslide victims on Leyte Island in the Philippines. More than 50 bodies have been found but more than 900 people are still missing.
Today, Hamas took control of the Palestinian parliament. Tomorrow, Israel plans to consider sanctions against the Palestinians. Israeli officials are looking at barring Palestinian workers, sealing off Gaza and stopping any Gaza development projects Israel is working on. At 8:00 Eastern, "CNN PRESENTS: SAVING MY TOWN."
CNN's Kathleen Koch looks at Katrina's effects on her Mississippi hometown.
That's what's happening right now in the news.
I'm Carol Lin.
Now back to ON THE STORY.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We are ON THE STORY at the George Washington University in the nation's capital.
Our Jamie McIntyre and the secretary of defense, Donald Rumsfeld, were on the move to Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco. The goal? To convince friendly Muslim nations to work with the United States -- a tall order for a short trip.
Jamie takes us behind-the-scenes in his Reporter's Notebook.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're in Morocco, coming to the end of our trip, and we're going to go back to our home away from home, a giant 747, which is actually outfitted as an airborne command post.
OK, the Secretary went up the front stairs. We've got to hustle up the back stairs now and get back in the plane.
This is where the press sits, right here.
We're airborne now, flying back to Washington and I'm just thinking back on the trip and some of the notable things that happened.
Well, first of all, of course, there's the fact that we accidentally dropped the camera in Morocco and broke it. It can probably be fixed, but we had to shoot the rest of that story on home video with my little home video camera.
Then, of course, there was several motorcade incidents. We had a rear-end accident in Morocco.
Then, of course, there was the infamous chandelier incident in which our broom (ph) microphone hit one of the ornate chandeliers in Algeria.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I keep seeing the chandelier. It's still moving up there? It just went boom and bumped into it. But everything's all right. OK.
OK.
(END VIDEO TAPE) MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld just loved MAN:. riding us about that the whole trip.
JOHNS: The chandelier incident. That's pretty amazing.
MCINTYRE: He kept looking at our poor cameraman and saying, "Do you have anything you want apologize for? Do you want to say anything? Our poor cameraman.
JOHNS: Well, you know, a lot of us have been on these trips and my question for you, maybe you can sort of describe what's on the record, what's off the record when you're traveling on the plane with the defense secretary?
MCINTYRE: Well, it's kind of a touchy situation because, you know, technically they say all the conversations on the plane are off the record, which means not for reporting unless they're really good. No, they're not for reporting at all.
But then the question is what about all of the other stuff that goes along that you just observe? Because you see a lot. You're traveling with the Secretary, his party. They've got classified material, sometimes, laying out in places. And, you know, you're supposed to be, you know, polite and use your judgment about what you reveal and what you don't reveal.
But just that little part that you saw in there just shows you the conditions that we're traveling under, the sort of the way things operate and, you know, they're noticing that these days with blogs and everything else, not just the big story gets reported, but a lot of these behind-the-scenes details, as well.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: So the fact that the chandeliers made such a big splash here, was there any news out of this?
Do you actually learn anything more about Rumsfeld or...
MCINTYRE: Well, there was -- there was some news out of it. I mean the United States was trying to reinforce with these three nations -- Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia -- that their voice was welcome, a voice of moderation.
But, you know, frankly, Rumsfeld keeps us running at a sort of breakneck pace. It's amazing, because, you know, I'm getting tired out and so I'm kind of like sleeping in between stops and he's 73 years old. He's not losing any energy at all.
JOHNS: Let's get a question from the audience.
What's your name?
CHRISTIAN KETHLER: Hi.
I'm Christian Kethler (ph) from Claremont (ph), Oklahoma. And I'm curious about how Donald Rumsfeld was received by the audience or the crowd?
How did they react to his appearance?
MCINTYRE: What do you mean, the crowds in the places where he appeared or with the reporters on the plane?
KETHLER: Well, like the public crowds.
Did he ever go outside? Did he see large crowds or anything like that?
MCINTYRE: Well, not that we saw. You know, when the defense secretary travels, he's kind of in a bubble. He's got security around him. He's got a very tight schedule. He did go to a place, he spent some time visiting the Carthage Museum in Tunisia. He went to some other places. And he spent some time socializing with the news media. He had a little off the record reception for us one night.
He's a very engaging guy, but on this kind of a trip, which has a tight schedule, he's not out mixing with a lot of the common people.
JOHNS: What's your name?
BRIAN SCRAFFORD: I'm Brian Scrafford (ph) from Centerville (ph), Virginia.
As you were traveling with Secretary Rumsfeld, did you feel as though you were able to obtain uncensored information or only the information that the government wanted you to report on?
MCINTYRE: Oh, they're always trying to just give us the information that they want us to report on. And they're -- sometimes if they don't like the way we reported a story or emphasized -- what part of the story we've emphasized, a lot of times some of the officials who work on Rumsfeld's staff will come back and engage you in some friendly dialogue about what angle you took on the trip.
But there's a -- there's an interesting dynamic that's much different from when you're covering a story at the Pentagon because you're actually traveling with these people, you're seeing them sleeping on the plane. You know, sometimes they're drooling on themselves. People are snoring. You see them in a much more intimate and familiar situation.
And there's kind of a little more leeway. Everybody cuts everybody a little slack because you are traveling together under a tight schedule and often you're tired.
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jamie, you just sort of touched on that.
Talk about just the grueling sort of schedule that you keep when you go on one of these trips. I imagine it's very much like traveling overseas with the president. MCINTYRE: Well, first of all, you start with a jet lag deficit because you fly overnight. You get there in the morning. You lose six hours and then you go right to work. And it just sort of compounds through the trip, because, as I said, Rumsfeld doesn't stop. They've got something scheduled all the time. And invariably, right at the end of the day, after you put your story to bed and you're hoping to go out to dinner, they'll come to you and they say look, we've arranged for a very important background for you with three different officials. You know, it's 7:00 at night and your day just doesn't -- doesn't end.
JOHNS: From globe trotting with Jamie to how Kathleen Koch manages to keep the Mississippi hometown in the spotlight. Still reeling from Hurricane Katrina.
Kathleen's back on that story after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOHNS: CNN is ON THE STORY.
Remember after Hurricane Katrina, our Kathleen Koch made a promise to residents of Bay St. Louis that she wouldn't let them be forgotten. She's returned six times since Hurricane Katrina flattened her hometown.
Her "CNN PRESENTS" documentary, "SAVING MY TOWN," airs this weekend.
Let's look at her Reporter's Notebook.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
KOCH: It's like a war zone. Saigon, maybe. How can this be the place I used to live?
This is a personal story. I have a vested interest in this town coming back. And so I am not going to be quite that separate, you know, objective observer. And I am there, also, in this to try to see if we can help bring the town back, but to be an advocate, to go and find out why things aren't happening.
What's your name?
HARVARD SOMES: Harvard Somes (ph).
KOCH: Somes?
SOMES: Uh-huh.
KOCH: Anthony Somes?
SOMES: My first cousin.
KOCH: How's Anthony? People open up to me there because people know me. They're more willing to open up to you when you're from there. We realized that we're just really just scraping the surface. But, you know, it'll be a little slice of life. It will give people a sense of what everyone is suffering there and what they're struggling with. And it will make them, you know, hopefully, help them understand that there is this town called Bay St. Louis that is very special with really unique people who are struggling, but who are so optimistic and so really upbeat and so determined to come back.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
JOHNS: That documentary up next here on CNN.
Kathleen Koch joins us now.
A question for you from the audience.
What's your name?
REBECCA: Hi.
I'm Rebecca.
I'm from New Orleans.
And I was wondering if you feel the media is covering the side effects of the hurricane devastation, such as depression and even the resulting suicides well, or even at all?
KOCH: You know, I think that's a really good point. When -- the first week that I was back in Washington after being on the Gulf Coast covering the hurricane, I did a story in Washington about that, about the mental health impacts of the storm. We had a lot of evacuees who came up here to D.C. A lot of them went to Prince Georges County. And we talked to mental health professionals about that.
And in -- so we're covering it. And we mention that, too, in the documentary, that people in my hometown are suffering, as well. And we point out the fact that, you know, when you're -- if you were already having some difficulty coping, something like this is -- is very likely to push you over the edge.
But I think it's not covered enough and I hope that in the days, weeks and months to come, people will pay more attention to that.
MCINTYRE: Kathleen, we're so used to -- as reporters -- trying to be dispassionate and separate ourselves from the story.
Clearly, you're really connected to this story. And you could hear the emotion in your voice.
Does it make it harder for you to do this documentary, being so emotionally connected to it?
KOCH: It did, in some ways, because every time you would go and do an interview, every time you would go back and you would hear these stories, some from people who I did grow up with who I knew really well and then some from other people in town who I was just meeting for the first time, it would just -- just tug at your heartstrings so much and you would get so frustrated as you saw how hard they were struggling and how little progress was being made.
And yet you couldn't just be that reporter. These weren't just strangers to u. These were friends. And so it was tough. It was tough.
JOHNS: What's your name?
KELLY: Hi.
I'm Kelly (ph) from Catholic University.
Do you feel trapped between reporting on Hurricane Katrina and actually living it through your friends and neighbors?
KOCH: That's an interesting question.
Well, I feel like it's not over, for me. But then, in that respect, I think I can really understand how people in the region feel.
And Suzanne has numerous family members there who have lost everything.
And so in a way I am trapped. But I'm trapped with them, so I'm not alone. And so I feel it's a comfortable place to be. But it does make it difficult as I keep reporting on the story, because I'm in there with them. And daily I get calls and e-mails for people looking for help, pleas for attention to cover the story more, to turn -- you know, focus on this or that.
And, you know, you just -- you're one person and you do your best and you, you know, you try to cover it all.
MALVEAUX: You and I talked about this, too, as well.
Is there a moment where there are just some things that are too difficult that you do not want to reveal on camera?
How do you actually separate that, because I know that that's hard to actually allow yourself to have that level of emotion.
KOCH: Yes. It's -- it's tough. In the first week that I went back, that was one thing that they captured on camera, was some of my emotion that in my earlier reports I chose not -- not to put in, because I am a, you know, a serious journalist. I report at the Pentagon. I report at the White House. I want people to take me seriously.
But in this documentary, our editors, you know, they looked at the video and they said this was real. You were in the moment. You were in the town. You were walking through the rubble of, you know, your school. You were standing on the slab that used to be your house. You know, it would be strange if you didn't cry, if you didn't show emotion. So we want to put that in there.
But it's something that I wrestle with because, you know, we -- you don't normally show that and share that.
JOHNS: It looks like it's going to be a terrific piece.
MALVEAUX: Yes, very powerful.
JOHNS: And that documentary, "SAVING MY TOWN," is up straight ahead in the next hour, right after ON THE STORY.
From Katrina to the justice beat, ever watch those crime scene investigation cop shows? It turns out the bad guys are watching, too, maybe getting some high tech tips on how to outsmart the law.
CNN's Ted Rowlands is back on that story after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOHNS: CNN is on the story.
Our Ted Rowlands filed a story about how some cops are worried that TV shows, those focusing on crime scene investigations, "CSI," are giving away secrets to the bad guys.
Let's click back to Ted's report.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "CSI," COURTESY CBS)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What am I smelling?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bleach?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In this episode of "CSI," the killer uses bleach to cover up a double murder.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "CSI," COURTESY CBS)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's no footprints. There's no handprints.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROWLANDS: In Austintown, Ohio, a real life killer does the same thing, uses bleach to clean up after murdering a 43-year-old woman and her 70-year-old mother. It turns out, according to court documents, the alleged Ohio killer liked to watch "CSI," possibly learning that bleach gets rid of DNA by watching TV.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "CSI," COURTESY CBS) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The killer poured bleach down all the drains.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Talk about sucking all the life out of DNA.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAPT. RAY PEAVY, LOS ANGELES COUNTY SHERIFF'S HOMICIDE BUREAU: It's showing the crooks how not to get caught.
ROWLANDS: Captain Ray Peavy runs one of the homicide units in Los Angeles County. He says "CSI" and other shows make it more difficult to nab criminals because, after watching these shows and seeing the incredible science investigators are using, criminals are cleaning up.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
JOHNS: Ted Rowlands joins us now from Los Angeles.
We have a question from Steve.
Where are you from?
STEVE: I'm from Raynham, Massachusetts.
JOHNS: And your question?
STEVE: Yes, I was wondering if you think it's realistic to expect that these shows would actually change or maybe tone down their programming as a result of these complaints?
ROWLANDS: No, definitely not.
We talked to the producers of "CSI," went over and visited with them. And they think, on some level, it's ridiculous to think that their show and shows like their show should be held responsible for educating criminals.
One side of the story, though, that they do acknowledge that may be happening is that juries are starting to -- jurors are coming for service and they're expecting more. And they say that on that end, it's not their responsibility, but it's prosecutors' responsibility to update the way they're presenting cases and it's up to law enforcement to update the way that they're investigating.
JOHNS: You know, it's interesting, this is the kind of question that could also be posed to journalists because we, as well, disclose certain information about investigations.
That's the kind of thing that we'd be talking about censorship, right?
Your view?
ROWLANDS: Yes, clearly it's not going the happen. I mean if the information is out there, if these techniques are working and some of this stuff is really cool -- in fact, we went and -- we went to real "CSI" laboratory here in Los Angeles and they're doing basically the same things you see on TV. It takes them a lot longer, but the science is there. So it's not as if it won't be broadcast and it won't be on news programs and it's not going to be used in these -- in these dramas. It is out there and it's just a matter of, I think, law enforcement in some municipalities picking it up and using some of this.
The down side is, is, though, these criminals seem to be cleaning up a little bit more and jurors are expecting a little more.
JOHNS: A question from Victoria.
Where are you from?
VICTORIA: Cornell University.
JOHNS: Your question?
VICTORIA: Do you think that law enforcement officers or officials are watching these shows, too, and maybe getting an idea of how to change the way they do their jobs?
ROWLANDS: No. I think that they're disgusted with a lot of the shows. I mean I think they watch them. In fact, the sheriff's deputy that we talked to said that his wife watches it all the time but he doesn't have time for it kind of thing. Because, I think, a lot of this show -- the show producers say -- it's drama.
They use a kernel of truth, they use a bit of the science, but then they dramatize it to make it appealing. And then they solve the crime every time within an hour. And that's not the way it works. So I think there's a lot of disgust within the law enforcement community.
One of the benefits, though, of this, from the "CSI" folks, the real life ones, they say now when they go to a municipality or they go to a city council looking for money, they get a check right away because people know what they're doing. And it helps them not only with funding, but they're getting great applicants. There's a lot of young people that are now going into the sciences, young women, too,
They say that's a huge upside to this "CSI" effect.
MCINTYRE: You know, Ted, being an old guy, this reminds me of the old "Perry Mason Show" where somebody confessed on every show. That's how it usually works. And so the jury is here.
Are they looking basically to see an airtight, scientific case that conclusively proves every case or they're not buying it?
ROWLANDS: Exactly. They're looking for scientific evidence and they wonder why didn't the investigator do this. They do this on "CSI." And even, you know, a lot of prosecutors will put that into a jury questionnaire now. They'll say do you understand that there's a difference and we don't have that kind of funding or the time. You know, if you're on a jury for a robbery case, well they're not going to do DNA samples. They're going to get -- use an eyewitness.
But they are finding that juries are expecting more and prosecutors are having to combat that.
JOHNS: Ted Rowlands in Los Angeles.
Thanks so much for that.
We're back with what we expect ON THE STORY for the coming week.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOHNS: Keep yourself ON THE STORY at cnn.com. Our Web site tells you about the panel, the topics and how to get tickets to join our audience.
Let's take a quick look ahead ON THE STORY.
What are you all looking at next week?
Suzanne?
MALVEAUX: A hard sigh (ph).
JOHNS: You've always got news.
MALVEAUX: A little bit of news.
Bush is going to be traveling. He's going to be pitching his energy policy. He'll be in Michigan, Colorado and Wisconsin.
But the big story is going to be we're going to India and Pakistan. And I'm leaving on Friday. And he is going to be taking a trip about seven days or so. So that should be very exciting.
MCINTYRE: Well, I've got to say, I don't have a big plan yet. I'm counting on stuff happening and then covering it.
I'll tell you what I'm not doing. I'm not covering Mardi Gras.
JOHNS: Boring breaking news.
MCINTYRE: How about you?
JOHNS: Right.
KOCH: And Mardi Gras is what I'm going to be going down to the Mississippi Gulf Coast to cover starting on Wednesday, where people believe if you can come to party, then you can also stay and do a little bit of work -- gut some houses, clear some slabs, clean up some debris.
My family did it for a week at Thanksgiving. Every American should come and do the same.
JOHNS: I'll be back on the accountability beat and probably looking into the congressional lobbying investigation.
Thanks to my colleagues and our audience here at the George Washington University.
And thank you for watching ON THE STORY.
We'll be back each Saturday night, Sunday afternoon.
A reminder that Kathleen Koch's "CNN PRESENTS: SAVING MY TOWN" is straight ahead.
First, a check on what's making news right now.
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