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On the Story
Questions Swirl over Goss Exit at CIA; On the Border & in D.C. Talking Immigration; Web Site Locates Low Gas Prices
Aired May 07, 2006 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Fredrick Whitfield at the CNN Center in Atlanta. Checking our top stories right now.
New signs of sectarian violence in Iraq. Police say 43 bodies have been found in Baghdad in the past 24 hours, all had gunshot wounds to the head, and at least 14 people were killed today in car bombings in Baghdad and Karbala. The deadliest blast targeted a military convoy at an Iraqi army base.
Australian rescuers are using hand tools to chip away at rock as they try to reach two trapped gold miners. The men have been entombed in a steel cage underground for 13 days now. At last word, the rescuers were about a yard away from the miners.
The bird flu's arrival in the U.S. may be just months away, so says the nation's health and human services secretary. Michael Leavitt tells CNN it would not be a crisis unless the bird flu evolves into a contagious human virus. Then, he says, local communities would have to take the lead in dealing with outbreaks because the federal government is, quote, "under-prepared."
A deadly construction accident is being investigated near Miami. Three workers were killed and another injured when a support frame at the high-rise site where they were working collapsed. The men fell into quick-drying concrete.
And everything is coming up roses for Babaro, the hands-down winner of this year's Kentucky Derby. The undefeated thoroughbred kicked off an early stumble and finished a full six-and-a-half lengths ahead of the pack. Bluegrass Cat placed and Steppenwolfer showed.
Those are the headlines. I'm Fredricka Whitfield in Atlanta. More top stories in 30 minutes. ON THE STORY begins right now.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN. And we are ON THE STORY from the campus of the George Washington University in the heart of the nation's capital. Our correspondents bring you the stories behind the stories they're covering.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VELSHI (voice-over): Suzanne Malveaux is ON THE STORY of President Bush and the latest change in his team.
Candy Crowley finds the beginnings of the 2008 campaign trail. And what was Rudy Giuliani doing in Iowa? Kelli Arena was ON THE STORY inside the courtroom as a jury spared the life of al Qaeda's Zacarias Moussaoui.
Rusty Dornin saw darkness fall along the Mexican border, and that nightly hide and seek of U.S. agents and illegal immigrants.
Juan Carlos Lopez talks about the immigration protests that brought hundreds of thousands into American streets.
And Abbi Tatton finds online reaction to higher oil prices and shows how one guy helped millions find a bargain.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELSHI: Welcome. I'm Ali Velshi. With me here, Suzanne Malveaux, Candy Crowley, and Kelli Arena. Now our correspondents will be taking questions from our studio audience, which is drawn from visitors, college students, and people from across Washington and across the country.
Now first up, the White House, the administration battling through another week, including the surprise departure of CIA Director Porter Goss. Suzanne Malveaux has been on that beat.
Suzanne, never really a dull moment for you, but this one comes out of the blue.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: This was amazing. It wasn't a surprise to those in the intelligence community, but what it was is really a kind of a behind-the-scenes turf battle.
You had Porter Goss, the CIA director, on one side. You had his boss, the director of national intelligence, on the other. And this -- you know, a change had happened about a year ago where they basically put the CIA, which was the lead intelligence agency, made it a service agency, and there were 16 other agencies that would also -- basically equal to the CIA.
It came to a head about a couple of weeks ago when Porter Goss was losing his agents, his boss trying to take them away from him. A lot of turf battle fighting here. Ultimately, Negroponte went to the White House, said, look, I think he is going to have to go. The White House agreed.
They said to him, look, you know, if you don't like how things are getting done, you'll have to go. And that's what he said, I agree, and then he resigned.
VELSHI: And a lot of times it's not the kind of thing a lot of people pay that much attention to. It's sort of upper level, as you said, a turf war. But in this time, in the environment we're in, this is of concern to a lot of people.
Your name and what is your question?
QUESTION: Hi. Carrie-Anne Lee (ph) from Jamaica. What do you think will be, if any, the political implications of the CIA director's sudden resignation?
MALVEAUX: Well, certainly the White House is trying to minimize this. And they're saying that as early as Monday that the president has even perhaps selected somebody to take his place. The big worry here, as you know, is that the president is under fire for faulty intelligence with Iraq, faulty intelligence with 9/11. And he's trying to make this case that, hey, Iran is building this nuclear weapon. So they cannot miss a beat. They can't afford to wait anymore than a couple of days to replace him.
VELSHI: Kelli, you've been on another part of this story, obviously, the intelligence and the terrorism story. Your sense of it?
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: My sense of it is that operations in the field continue and that one man does not make an agency. Obviously, the intelligence community has been drastically restructured since September 11th. And as Suzanne said, this is a situation that will be dealt with very quickly.
VELSHI: Candy, you follow political fall-out all the time. I can't make sense of it because Suzanne is here regularly with us on ON THE STORY talking about the mishap of the week or the crisis of the week at the White House. What's the political fall-out once you step back from this?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's never a good thing when you give Democrats and Republicans a chance to say, well, oh, it's such a mess over at the CIA. Oh, my gosh, this is terrible. And that's what this does.
I mean, all of the reaction that you saw from Democrats, oh, this is -- you know, boy, somebody's got to get over there and fix that. So this obviously reflects on the president in his strength, and that's never a good thing.
VELSHI: A week is seven days for most of us. But at the White House, it must be about 19 days for all that goes on. This was the latter half of the week story. The other big story at the White House this week, three years since President Bush appeared under a big "Mission Accomplished" banner and declared an end of major combat operations in Iraq. And Suzanne Malveaux was on that story then and now.
Let's have a look at her "Reporter's Notebook."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.
MALVEAUX: This speech has come to symbolize the failure inside of Iraq, and it haunts this president, it haunts this administration every anniversary.
Administration officials continue to say that that "Mission Accomplished" moment was really a snapshot in really a long-term effort to bring democratic reform to that country.
Many people looking at him, saying that, look, you have got two years left. You're going to be a lame duck. The president is really trying to shift and change the momentum here. You see that in staff shake-up, the White House shake-up. You also see it in him moving forward, trying to project this more optimistic, message about Iraq.
BUSH: We believe this is a turning point for the Iraqi citizens and it's a new chapter in our partnership.
MALVEAUX: There are good stories and there is good news. One of them, of course, being the fact that the Iraqis chose their government, their leaders for this new democratically elected government. The big question, of course, is whether or not it is going to be successful. And we still don't know.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELSHI: Suzanne, how do you do your job and not take a story like that, which honestly, to the American public, must -- you know, people are going to roll their eyes and say, how did they do that? Why did they decide to do that? But you actually have to do business at the White House. And you can't really walk in and say, you guys are nuts, and just another reminder. You can't do that, you can't say what a lot of people either do or don't want to say. And we've seen increasingly polarized and extreme views when the president or cabinet secretaries go out in public. How do you go in there and just treat it like another day?
MALVEAUX: You know, it's understandable what the White House is doing. You know, we don't think they're nuts in what they do because they have a message and they are trying to convince Americans. And it's a tough, tough sell, as we know, because we see all the polls that show about, you know, 30 percent approval rating. And most Americans do not believe in this mission.
So what they do is they put forward the positive, the good news. I think that the challenge as a journalist is not to ignore that as well because it's harder to see the good pictures. We can see the violence that unfolds every day. It is a dismal situation, but there are some good pictures, there are some good stories. And I think that's the challenge, too, is that you can't ignore them. At the same time, you can't be spun, I guess.
VELSHI: Your name and where you're from?
QUESTION: Hi, I'm Erica (ph) from Philadelphia. On the topic of faulty intelligence, I was just wondering, the dispute that happened recently between an ex-CIA analyst and Donald Rumsfeld concerning his remarks on Iraq, particularly he denied that he said that there was bullet proof evidence against Saddam Hussein for being involved in the terrorist attacks. So how is the White House going to back up Donald Rumsfeld on these errors?
MALVEAUX: What the White House is saying, is, listen, we've actually taken responsibility for the fact that, yes, there was faulty intelligence. What Rumsfeld had said before even Rumsfeld himself saying, well, that's not necessarily, if you look at the context and the bigger picture, what we claimed at the time.
We claimed at the time that we believed there were weapons of mass destruction. I do think the White House is going to continue to struggle to make the case, and it's something that they have to continue to answer to. One of the strategies that they're doing is that they're putting the president out and they're putting Secretary Rumsfeld out, which is really unique, to answer the public's concerns and their questions.
VELSHI: And really, even if people don't like it, you heard President Bush. He said he's the decider. We have got the best political team on television. And that's where we are going. A member of the Kennedy clan, Congressman Patrick Kennedy heads back to rehab for help with addiction and depression.
And Candy Crowley is already picking up the trail of campaign 2008. Rudy Giuliani in Iowa. She's back ON THE STORY right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. PATRICK KENNEDY (D), RHODE ISLAND: I am deeply concerned about my reaction to the medication and my lack of knowledge of the accident that evening. But I do know enough that I know that I need help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: CNN is ON THE STORY at the George Washington University. On Friday, Congressman Patrick Kennedy, Democrat of Rhode Island, headed off for the Mayo Clinic for help with addictions and depression. This followed a crash the day before on Capitol Hill after erratic driving. Candy Crowley has got that story.
Candy, unbelievable course of events. This went from nothing to something to something much bigger. What's your take on this?
CROWLEY: Well, you know, it's funny, because I started out this day -- just to give you an idea of how a day can go at CNN, I started out this day doing a Patrick Kennedy story, more sort of a broader look at the Kennedys and how these things just sort of trail them and why we're so fascinated with the Kennedys.
It went on to two other stories before I finally got to the one I was doing. But when I was focusing on that story, the only thing I could see when I was looking at him was, if his name were not Kennedy, this would not have been on the front page of The Washington Post, and we would not be talking about it.
If his name were not Kennedy, he might be in the slammer. So, it is this, you know, fame and fortune and money and all of that kind of stuff is such -- has been such a double-edged sword, always is, but for that family in particular. You know, I mean, they've had just wonderful benefits of life in America, and yet, you know, the flip side of that is that you are right there under the microscope.
ARENA: But because he was not given a breathalyzer, because they didn't do what they were supposed to do, do you think that part of the story will keep it alive?
CROWLEY: I do. Because there is already -- you see that the police are sort of arguing amongst themselves about who let him -- who said, OK, no, never mind, back off, to the guys on the scene, put him in a car and drive him home.
So I think that's the staying power of this story. I think Patrick Kennedy pretty much -- except for whatever his relationship is going to be with his constituents in Rhode Island, the story I think now becomes a legal law enforcement story.
VELSHI: And ultimately that's -- the story of his relationship with his constituents and anyone's relationship with their constituents in politics is what you specialize in. And you are and have been for some time on the 2008 presidential campaign, the early signs of it, at least. Candy found Rudy Giuliani in Iowa.
Here's Candy's "Reporter's Notebook."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY: It is never too early to file on a 2008 story.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome to Iowa.
CROWLEY: Everyplace you go with Rudy Giuliani, there are cameras there, there are people there wanting to meet him. This is one of the heroes, if not the hero of 9/11. That's how they remember him. In Iowa, the question, of course, that we wanted to have answered when we came here is, does he see politics in his life beyond 2006, beyond 9/11, say, to 2008?
At this point in a campaign, it's fairly easy to get a hold of these people. They want people to know that they're out there. They want voters to be looking. After a while when the circus comes to town and it's a lot closer to presidential election time, it's very difficult to get any kind of meaningful time with the candidate or even talk to the people around him. So this is a perfect opportunity to be on the ground floor of what could end up being a campaign, and at least, for one person, will end up being a president.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELSHI: Rudy Giuliani, to most people, particularly their memories of him, are an energetic, type-A politician. And I don't mean that in any bad way. He's thought of that way. How does a guy go on and around the country in what looks like a presidential campaign and yet somehow not act like they're campaigning? What do you read from him? Is he on? Is he not on? CROWLEY: Well, he in fact says -- what's so surprising is that he confirmed the obvious, which is that he's thinking about running for president. That may not sound like much, but we're in the season when they go, oh, I'm just out here in Iowa because...
VELSHI: Because I love Iowa.
CROWLEY: ... I love Iowa in the summer or I want to help, you know, these candidates. So he said, oh, well, I'm here to help candidates. And that's what I'm focused on, but obviously I'm here trying to figure out whether or not I should run for president in 2008. So I was sort of surprised that he was...
VELSHI: What's the aura? Does he feel like he's running? Does he look like he's running?
CROWLEY: So mellow. I mean, this is not the Rudy Giuliani I saw in New York. This is -- and I said to him, what's with this? Because he's laughing with us and joking with us. And he's, you know, talking. He said, I've been this way for a while.
And, look, he's making bank. He's got a security consulting firm. He allegedly makes $100,000 per motivational speech. And he's married to a woman he appears very much in love with. So life is good. And...
MALVEAUX: How did they receive him there in Iowa?
CROWLEY: I'm sorry?
MALVEAUX: How did they receive him in Iowa?
(CROSSTALK)
CROWLEY: Oh, he's a hero, leader, leader, leader. I mean, that's how they see him, which is a big step, you know, forward. I don't -- you know, you'd have to sort of get into their heads. And I said to him, do you really want this?
And he said, you know, 9/11 and prostate cancer, which he had, he said, they change you. And so when people come to you and say, you know, you ought to think about it, I find it really humbling, Rudy Giuliani we're talking about, and I -- so I'm thinking about it.
VELSHI: All right. Let's take it to the voters. Your name and where you're from?
QUESTION: Hi, my name is Adam (ph) from Salt Lake City, Utah. What qualities do you see in the Mayor Giuliani that you've seen in past presidential candidates that you've covered?
CROWLEY: Well, I think it's -- you have to have a lot of things for presidential candidate. You have to have a story. OK? Rudy Giuliani has a story. It's called 9/11. You have to have some kind of juice. You know, when you walk into a place, they've got to know you're there. You know? George Bush has juice. Bill Clinton had juice. Rudy Giuliani has it because of who he is. And you have to have a platform. Now, Rudy Giuliani's problem is going to be that on social issues he's not with the Republican Party.
He is pro-gay rights, he is pro-choice on abortion. So there are a number -- he's for gun licensing. I mean, he is from New York. I mean, this is a New York Republican basically.
So he's got to get past the primary season which is conservatives on social issues. That's his biggest challenge. And he may ultimately think, the time's not right.
VELSHI: Sir, your name and where you are from?
QUESTION: Good evening, my name is John (ph). I'm from Los Angeles. But I'm now an intel analyst here in D.C. Question, Rudy Giuliani, strike one for him was he can't win the blue state of New York; and, two, second strike was, rather than starting out overtly, a political move in Iowa, why didn't he do something smarter like George Bush did a few weeks ago and perhaps raise more political money and clout by visiting California, starting out low-key, you know, raising awareness, bigger state where he has a chance, Republican governor?
CROWLEY: First of all, because there's a long way to go between now and then. Second of all, he has been to all of those places. The reason we went, the reason this was so unusual is that this was the first time he's been to Iowa in two years, since he campaigned for the president in 2004.
And on Sunday night -- this was Monday when we were out there with him, Sunday night he did a fundraiser for Arnold Schwarzenegger. And in fact, he brought up Arnold Schwarzenegger and said, when I asked him about, well, jeez, you're pro-gay rights, you're pro this, you're pro that, and these people you're campaigning for are not, and he said, I think this is a big enough party for Arnold Schwarzenegger and for me. So he very much has California in mind because you guys have a lot of money out there for a fundraising.
VELSHI: A confessed al Qaeda operative heard a jury spare his life this week. Kelli Arena is back on that story in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: CNN is ON THE STORY. The only person charged in the U.S. with a connection to the 9/11 terror attacks escaped the death penalty this week. After years of legal maneuvering, millions of dollars and a complicated trial, prosecutors couldn't get the sentence they wanted. Kelli Arena was ON THE STORY every step of the way.
Listen to part of her first report after the verdict.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Tell our viewers what it was like inside the courtroom. ARENA: Well, very quiet, but there were no gasps, no tears. Some family members were in that courtroom when the verdict was read, and they did not react. And interestingly, neither did Zacarias Moussaoui. He just sat there staring straight ahead. The jury as stone-faced the as they have ever been while the results of their hard work were read to the entire courtroom.
When Moussaoui left the courtroom, though, he did his usual, you know, making a remark. And he said, "America, you lost. Raskin and Novak," the names of two of the prosecutors, "you lost, I won." And then he clapped his hands on his way out of the courtroom.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELSHI: What a story, Kelli. You've been on it for a really long time.
ARENA: Four-and-a-half years.
VELSHI: Yes. And, you know, but here's the thing. You've been very effective at conveying what happened. But you see the shot of Moussaoui and everything about those comments that he makes really represent this guy's -- you know, he doesn't like Americans, and certainly wanted to admit that he had done some things against Americans. And yet the thing you can't report easily on because it's this kind of story and because everybody has a connection to it, is that this guy has strangely some charisma to him.
ARENA: He does. He does. He -- everybody has a past, and he had friends in his previous life, friends who came from France to testify for him knowing what he had done.
VELSHI: Not as a terrorist.
ARENA: Right. You know, knowing what he had done. He had a prison guard who testified and said, oh, yes, we have conversations every day. And -- you know, and they said, well, does he try to convert you? And he goes, oh, every single day, you know, and, you know, just sort of laughed about it. But didn't talk about Moussaoui as if, you know, he were this horrible, you know, disgusting terrorist but like he was another inmate that he had had actually formed a relationship with.
And in a sick way, Moussaoui was actually funny. He has a sense of humor. Now a lot of what he said was evil, but he did, you know, in his exchange with prosecutors and with -- you know, when he answered questions, he was quick on his feet, and he was funny. And you found yourself having to bite your tongue sometimes...
VELSHI: Because you don't want...
ARENA: ... because you don't want to laugh with -- you know, I mean, a terrorist.
MALVEAUX: So what do you think it was? What do you think the jurors saw in him? I saw some of them, they came out and they said, well, he is just a wannabe al Qaeda. He wasn't -- he didn't play a major role in this. What do you think it was that allowed them to spare his life?
ARENA: I think it was exactly that. I think that it was that he -- they felt that he played a very minor role on September 11th. And there was a question on the verdict form that said, can you hold him responsible for the 3,000 deaths? And they said, no. So that was it.
Hi.
QUESTION: Hi, Hakim Amara (ph) from Algiers, Algeria. My question is quite straight. Do you think that Moussaoui is a perfect alibi or a victim of circumstances in George Bush's crusade?
ARENA: Well, I can tell you that there are a lot of 9/11 family members who believe that he was the wrong man put on trial to symbolize the September 11th attacks. After all, the United States has in its custody people like the mastermind of the attacks, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Ramzi bin al-Shibh, who was the money man, and some others who they felt should have been in that courtroom and facing justice.
There is no evidence to support that Moussaoui played a role on September 11th. His mother says he's a scapegoat for all the emotion and for Americans wanting justice. Look, he's an admitted terrorist. He got money from al Qaeda. He was trying to learn how to fly a plane. He says that he will kill Americans anywhere, any time. I would not want to be alone in a room with this guy and say, go for it. I mean...
VELSHI: But do you believe that this guy has the wherewithal?
ARENA: Right. Well, I mean, you know, look, I mean, one of the 9/11 pilots was allegedly a really horrible pilot, Hani Hanjour. He managed to strike the Pentagon. So, I mean, I don't think you have to have, you know, special talents to do harm to people.
VELSHI: What do you -- one of the -- I think part of where this question comes from is that there were a number of people who felt there has been a lot of time and money invested in this trial.
ARENA: Oh, sure. I mean, look, the government could have gotten what they got in the first place, which was he pled guilty and said, OK, I'll do life in prison. So...
VELSHI: Was life in prison dodging the death penalty, or was that, as some of the victims' families said, a greater punishment than the death sentence?
ARENA: Well, you know, that depends. I mean, it all depends on also whether or not you believe that he came here to be a martyr. I mean, the judge told him, you came here to die in a big bang of glory, and instead, you're going to die with a whimper, you know, in jail for the rest of your life, in a tiny cell 24/7.
I think it's all in how you look at them. Some people would think that any chance at redemption or, you know, eventually getting to a place where you can show remorse is better than being put to death. But, you know.
VELSHI: Your name and where you're from?
QUESTION: My name is Faith Kondawa (ph) from Zambia. I wanted to find out if the current American immigration laws are helping in the fight against terrorism.
ARENA: Well, you know, who knows? You know, you can't prove a negative. There has not been an attack on U.S. soil since September 11th. Is that because laws have kept certain people out? Is that just because they haven't gotten their act together? Don't know.
VELSHI: Good topic and one that we will continue to talk about. One political issue on the streets and in the headlines this week is something that our audience member just asked about, immigration. We're going to talk to our CNN Espanol reporter later in this hour.
But up next, Rusty Dornin on that immigration story in the Arizona desert with the Border Patrol.
And we're ON THE STORY from Washington, Arizona, Atlanta, and elsewhere. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIKE CHINOY, CNN SENIOR ASIA CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Crates of CDs and mp3 players, Walkmans, stereo systems, all with labels from the Japanese electronics firm, NEC, all of them fakes. A new kind of crime, one investigators have dubbed "brand-jacking," lax regulation and poor cooperation across borders may well continue to give ambitious criminals plenty of scope for stealing brands.
KEVIN FLOWER, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): Five times a day their voices fill the dusty Cairo air. The Egyptian government formalized a plan to standardize and synchronize the call to prayer by one single call beamed wirelessly to Cairo's 4,000-plus mosques.
SATINDER BINDRA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A 4-year-old with a seemingly insatiable appetite to just keep running in a grueling marathon of 43 miles in soaring heat. An exhausted and dehydrated Budya (ph) failed to finish, but he did run about 40 miles in seven hours and two minutes, a record for his age.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: Hello, I'm Fredricka Whitfield at the CNN Center in Atlanta. ON THE STORY continues in a moment. But first, "Now in the News," an all-too-familiar scene in Iraq, the mangled remains of a suicide car bomb attack, this one in the holy Shiite city of Karbala, killed at least five people, wounding 18 others. And in Baghdad, more car bombs, more carnage. Two separate attacks killed a total of nine people, including several Iraqi soldiers. Twenty people were wounded. In the West Bank, resistance versus force. Israeli police wielding batons stormed a Palestinian-owned building in Hebron, evicting dozen of Jewish squatters. Some fought back and were dragged away. In the first meeting of his cabinet, new Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert vowed to push ahead with the government's plan to remove tens of thousands of Jewish settlers from the West Bank.
In Washington, it may be rough going for President Bush's choice to replace Porter Goss as CIA director. Mr. Bush is expected to nominate Air Force General Michael Hayden tomorrow. At least two Republican lawmakers are expressing concern over having a military general head the spy agency.
The leader of a polygamist sect is the newest addition to the FBI's 10 most wanted list. Warren Jeffs is head of a break-away Mormon group. He's wanted on charges of sexual conduct with a minor. He's also accused of arranging marriages between underage girls and older men.
Those are the headlines. I'm Fredricka Whitfield, more top stories in 30 minutes. Now back to more of ON THE STORY.
VELSHI: CNN is ON THE STORY here on the campus of the George Washington University. CNN never sleeps. Just ask Rusty Dornin. She was up in the middle of the night along Arizona-Mexico border watching high-tech hide and seek that never stops.
Here's an excerpt from her "Reporter's Notebook."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just past midnight, Border Patrol agent Russell Church (ph) examines the dirt road less than a mile from the border near Sassaby (ph), Arizona, checking for telltale footprints on top of the Border Patrol's tire tracks.
He's part of a tactical operations unit called VORTAC, sort of the Special Forces of the Border Patrol. It's often pitch-black out here, and with their night eyes, perfect for the agents, who tonight are using experimental infrared displays.
From their SUVs, they see images that look like day light from a plane looking down at the dark desert. Those small black dots are people scattering in the dark. Later that morning, miles away, two of the VORTAC agents flushed out 24 illegal immigrants they had been tracking overnight.
Those who escaped? In broad daylight, they will struggle to evade capture by other Border Patrol units, continuing north, hoping to find some place in the United States where they can disappear.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELSHI: And Rusty Dornin joins us. Now, Rusty, good to have you here. Thanks for being with us. I'm going to kick it up to Candy Crowley, she has got a question for you.
CROWLEY: Rusty, it's my experience that law enforcement never lets you into their world unless they have got something they want to put out there. How did you get in with them to let you do this?
DORNIN: Well, Candy, actually I had spent time with this particular unit in New Orleans. This tactical operations unit for the Border Patrol, they do a lot of law enforcement actually around the world. And we spent two days with them -- I did an overnight patrol with them in New Orleans, and then we did also following up on 911 calls.
So I ended up calling them and saying, look, there's a lot going on in the border right now. Are you guys doing anything special? And he said, yes. We've got guys living out there for seven weeks at a time, living in trailers, camping literally in the desert and working these 24-hour shifts.
And I said, look, we'd like to come along, we'd like to spend a night with somebody and see what that's all about. So they let us in.
VELSHI: Rusty, what surprised you about this? Because this is such a big story in America. We talk about it all the time. What's the new thing? When you got out there, what did you not expect?
DORNIN: Well, I just -- you know, it's so vast, that desert out there. And they had 36 square miles, and we still -- we, you know, saw three different groups through those infrared -- through all of these high-tech devices. And yet we couldn't get to them because they do have a lot of respect for they call the Mexican guides that are taking these people over the border, that they're able to take the people and hide them in the underbrush despite the fact they have got spy planes with infrared and night scopes and all of this stuff. There are people who get through there. And I think I was surprised at that, that the number of people that can actually get through despite the fact we have got all this high-tech equipment.
MALVEAUX: And, Rusty, noticed in your piece there was someone actually had a gun. Do they explain, is that just to intimidate the immigrants who are crossing the border? Do they ever shoot people or do they actually feel intimidated in some way? Why are they armed?
DORNIN: I actually asked them. They are a tactical operations unit that is always armed. They go out -- they're more like an Army unit than most of the Border Patrol agents that I've seen. And I asked them, do you -- when you find a group, do you pull a gun on them? Is that how you stop them?
And, he said, no, no. We -- once we shout out that we're here and that they know there are agents here, he said, they usually always comply. We rarely ever have to draw our weapons when we do find these people. So they go out just for a matter of safety armed.
VELSHI: This isn't insurgents in Iraq. This is -- there's no match between the Border Patrol and the folks getting caught, as it were. DORNIN: But they did say that some of these guides are armed, and they do have to watch out for that. That the men bringing these groups through do have weapons themselves.
ARENA: And, Rusty, there probably are many women, children, families coming across the border, too. Emotionally, does that have any impact on the people who are working the border?
DORNIN: You know, I asked them, how do you feel about this? Are you -- is this just your job? Do you feel sad about it? And a couple of the guys said, you know, a lot of these people are just looking for a better life. They do have families, and there are kids and there are women and that sort of thing.
And he said, but this is our job, and they can't come over here illegally. So there certainly was some empathy in some ways expressed by some of the men, but this is what they have to do. And usually after they catch them, they're immediately put on a bus and taken right back across the border. And of course, they don't know if they're going to show up again a few nights later.
VELSHI: Rusty, good to talk to you. Thank you so much, Rusty Dornin.
And while the nightly drama plays out in Arizona, what was the impact of those immigration demonstrations across the country this week? Juan Carlos Lopez is back on that story.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: We are ON THE STORY. Hundreds of thousands of protestors skipped school, closed businesses and took to the streets this week in a renewed call for immigrants rights. CNN Espanol's Juan Carlos Lopez was at a rally in Washington reporting for both CNN's English and Spanish networks.
Have a look at his notebook.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JUAN CARLOS LOPEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What they are saying is, they want to be heard. They don't see it as a challenge. They don't see it as a provocation of people who don't agree with them.
Hundreds of people came to Malcolm X Park in D.C. (SPEAKING SPANISH)
Senior producer Willie Lora (ph) has spoken to people. I have spoken to people. We knew where the organizers were going to be. We made calls and we found out which shops were going to close, arranged to have all the logistics set up for today, and we started at one place and ended up in another following the story. That was the way it was designed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I should ignore my background because you don't... UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do you feel the need to say it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don't like it? Because this is identifying me.
LOPEZ: Now the question is, will this happen -- will this whole process, these marches and this boycott work?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELSHI: Juan Carlos Lopez joins us now. Good to see you, Juan Carlos. I'm going to go to the audience because as you saw from covering this story, this is something that ignites emotions across the board.
Sir, your name and where you're from?
QUESTION: My name is Robert (ph) and I'm from Washington, D.C. Go Nationals. My question is, very few people who support immigration guest worker programs use the term "illegal alien." How do you see those persons in network news and others who use the term "illegal alien"?
VELSHI: An excellent question -- Juan Carlos.
LOPEZ: Well, we have decided as a network, at CNN Espanol, we use "illegal immigrant." That's the term we have been using. A lot of people don't feel comfortable with being referred to as an illegal alien. So we refer to them as illegal immigrants. But I really don't have a take on -- I don't see a big difference. I don't think it changes the story.
I think what people want and what people told me that day is they just want their side of the story heard. And that was what they were doing at Malcolm X and many other cities in the U.S.
VELSHI: Another question from the audience. Your name and where you're from, ma'am?
QUESTION: I'm Sharon Rosa (ph) from Guatemala City. And I'm wondering what impact the immigration rallies have had on U.S. relations with Latin American countries.
LOPEZ: I don't think we can quantify that right now. What I have spoken with people about and what I have seen is that they show a very interesting picture about the United States as a country abroad. This is a country where people can protest in peace. You have illegal immigrants trying to influence the political process and they're coming out in major cities, they're protesting peacefully, and they're being allowed to do so.
So I think it shows a lot about the maturity of the American democracy and the space that people have in this country to express what they feel.
CROWLEY: Juan Carlos, it's Candy. You know, one of the things that I found talking to people on the Hill today and talking to people outside the Beltway, as they say, is that there was a certain sense that Monday's rally may have backfired.
While you were out there, did you get any sense that people understood that they were walking sort of a fine line here, that some Americans saw it and were turned off by it?
LOPEZ: No. I don't think they've gotten to that point. I think people are still trying to figure which way they're going to go in. There is no one leader, there is no one group. There are many groups rallying for different causes. Some people at that rally at Malcolm X were asking for amnesty.
Other people in the same group were saying, no. You know, don't talk about amnesty, that's a forbidden word. We don't want to hear that word mentioned. And then I spoke to Senator Mel Martinez this week and he said, you know, it's time for the marches to stop. They've done what they could. It's time for Congress to do its job.
But then I heard Minority Leader Reid saying that they were powerful and they were having an effect and they were sending a message of the need for reform. So people are seeing and following the story. And I don't think -- Candy, to answer your question, I don't think they're aware of it. They were just saying, we want people to see what we do and we want some respect.
VELSHI: Juan Carlos Lopez, thank you so much for joining us.
Well, from immigration to another big story of the recent weeks, gas prices. We're going to ask our audience here how much they shop around for gas bargains.
And Abbi Tatton is ON THE STORY online with a man who has made that bargain-hunting as easy as a few clicks on your computer.
We are coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: You are ON THE STORY. Tell us what topics you want us to cover. E-mail us at onthestory@cnn.com.
Well, gas prices are above three bucks and rising. Well, how many of you shop around for gas prices and hunt for bargains? Let me ask the audience. Give me a show of hands, those of you who will go out of your way to get a cheaper gallon of gas. How many of you are like me? You'll get your gas wherever you happen to be?
All right. Most of you are like me, but gas prices have kicked up activity online. Our Internet reporter Abbi Tatton is keeping watch -- Abbi.
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Ali, more and more people are going online to try to find the cheapest gas prices they can. One Web site out there with a huge following is gasbuddy.com. This is a site that relies on hundreds of thousands of volunteers all across the United States who go online and submit gas prices in their neighborhood. You can then go on the site and compare all the prices. We're joined by the co-founder of gasbuddy.com, that's Jason Toews.
Hi there, so I talked to one of your volunteers in Indiana who tells me that every morning at 4:00 a.m. he gets up and collects these gas prices and then submits them to you. Who are these dedicated people you have?
JASON TOEWS, WWW.GASBUDDY.COM: Well, there's lots of dedicated people on the Web site. We have around 900,000 registered members. And some people haven't missed a day in four or five years of posting gas prices on the Web site. So it's kind of really take over. It's really a grassroots effort.
TATTON: And so these people, they are largely anonymous. They go by these pseudonyms "Toad Man (ph)," "Smiley Lady (ph)," "Fill'er Up (ph)," are some of the ones I've just looked at. Why should we trust their information that they're submitting to you?
TOEWS: Well, we get a lot of the same people logging onto the Web site to report prices every day. And we get to know who they are and that they post reliable information. We'll actually ban people if they're found to be posting inaccurate information. And we closely monitor the new members on the Web site, and we scrutinize their prices much more closely than the longtime members.
VELSHI: All right. Tell me how effective this is. How does this work? How do you -- where did you get these people from? And how do people know to come to you? How do you keep it going?
TOEWS: Well, it's basically just a grassroots effort. And people are getting tired of high gas prices. So then they log on to the Internet, they look for a new way to save money on gas. And, of course, by logging on to our Web site, by sharing tips on where the cheapest gas is, you can actually save quite a bit of money on gas because gas prices vary by 30 to 50 cents per gallon in one metro area all across the country.
VELSHI: Yes, and we have seen that. How -- what have you measured as being the price of gas that really stimulates people to do this? I mean, at some point people are going to say, you know what, I'm not going to shop. As gas prices go down, they might go down to $2.90, but people feel like, what a bargain. What's the number? When do people get really annoyed?
TOEWS: Well, you know, I think we've become desensitized to high gas prices because we've had high gas prices for over a year. And, you know, really, different people have different points where they say, jeez, I really need to start changing my driving habits. To some people, that might be $2 a gallon, some people maybe $2.50, some maybe $3, some maybe $4 or $5 per gallon. It really depends on the person.
VELSHI: Four or five bucks a gallon, Abbi.
TATTON: Yes. It's unbelievable. And Jason was telling me earlier that this is one of the highest traffic times, the most high was actually right after Katrina.
Jason Toews, from Gasbuddy, thanks so much for joining us -- Ali.
TOEWS: Thank you.
VELSHI: Abbi, thanks so much.
Coming up, what our correspondents here expect that they're going to be watching ON THE STORY next week. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: ... ON THE STORY at cnn.com. Our Web site tells you about the panel, the topics and how to get tickets to join our audience.
Well, this week we've gone from the Moussaoui trial to the Arizona desert to politicking in Iowa. Let's take a look ahead at what we're expecting next week ON THE STORY.
Suzanne, could you possibly guess?
MALVEAUX: Well, we'll get a new CIA director, we'll find out formally who that is. And also it will be the first week for the new press secretary. So that should be fun.
VELSHI: All right -- Candy.
CROWLEY: Among other things, John McCain, a week from tomorrow, will be at Liberty College, Jerry Falwell's haunt, giving the graduation speech. We want to see what he has to say to a former -- Falwell is a former adversary and we want to see how the audience reacts to it.
VELSHI: And, Kelli.
ARENA: Life after Moussaoui.
VELSHI: I was going to say, you're probably going to sleep.
(LAUGHTER)
ARENA: I am. I'm just going to start checking in with sources I haven't checked in with in a while.
VELSHI: All right. And I am going to be looking at this number, 11,722, it's the all-time record high on the Dow. And we're about 150 points away from it. It could happen this week.
ARENA: Go 401(k), go 401(k).
VELSHI: Exactly. Thanks to my colleagues and our audience here at the George Washington University.
And thank you for watching ON THE STORY. We're back each week, Saturday night and Sunday afternoon. Straight ahead, a check on what is making news right now.
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