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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

The U.S.-China Standoff: Day Nine

Aired April 09, 2001 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight, a CNN special report: "The U.S.-China standoff." The crew of the U.S. Navy surveillance plane is in high spirits, but still in detention. The diplomatic wheels are turning slowly, and President Bush says that carries a risk.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The longer it goes, there is a point at which our relations with China could become damaged.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: As the two sides try to work out a solution, we'll go live to our correspondents at the White House and in Beijing.

And I'll discuss the U.S.-China relationship with someone who helped create it: former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger.

Good evening. Welcome to our special report: "The U.S.-China Standoff: Day Nine." I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting tonight from Washington.

All of the optimism we heard Friday from U.S. officials that the two sides were on the verge of an agreement, perhaps even over the weekend, turned out to be false. It's now week two for the 24 Americans being held in China, with no breakthrough in sight. So the standoff continues.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Weighing his words carefully, President Bush warned of serious consequences unless the crew is released.

BUSH: Every day that goes by increases the potential that our relations with China could be damaged. And our hope is that this matter gets resolved quickly.

BLITZER: Mr. Bush conceded diplomacy takes time, pointing out that U.S. and Chinese officials are hard at work behind the scenes. But a new satellite photo shows the EP-3 aircraft still on the ground at Lingshui Air Base on Hainan Island with seven trucks parked next to it, indicating to some in the Pentagon that the Chinese are removing sensitive equipment.

American diplomats were granted a fourth meeting with all 24 crew members, unlike the last meeting, when only eight were present. The U.S. says until all are released, it wants regular visits.

Unlike some on Capitol Hill, the president is not calling them hostages, clearly wary of escalating tensions. Trying to reach out, Mr. Bush has sent a letter to the wife of the missing Chinese pilot to express his regret for her loss. But that doesn't appear to be enough.

CHEN CHI, HAINAN PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT: So Hainan people demand the U.S. stop the spying activities, and apologize to the Chinese people for this incident.

BLITZER: The negotiations appear to hinge on semantics.

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Diplomacy always is a search for words and agreements to resolve peacefully difficult, contentious matters.

BLITZER: For now, the White House says it's taking one step at a time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: For the Bush administration, patience may be wearing thin as diplomats try to find that right word or nuance which can help break the deadlock.

CNN White House correspondent, Major Garrett. has a few new developments regarding those diplomatic maneuverings. He joins us now life from the White House. Major, what's going on?

MAJOR GARRETT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Wolf. U.S. officials tell CNN that the Chinese government has rejected a third draft of a letter written by the United States. That letter would be designed to resolve all differences an end the stand-off. U.S. officials tell CNN that a fourth draft of that letter is being put together now, and will soon be delivered to those Chinese officials.

Also that that letter from the president offering his personal regret and condolences to the Chinese fighter pilot's wife has in fact been delivered. U.S. officials hope that extraordinary gesture might undercut some of the harsh rhetoric in China, and also improve the atmosphere for a conclusion to this stand-off.

BLITZER: Major, when you -- when we hear the president talking about damage to the long-term U.S.-China relationship, what are you hearing at the White House? What specific damage is he referring to?

GARRETT: Well, the U.S.-China relationship exists on many fronts, Wolf, and privately, White House officials say: "Look, the longer this goes on, the harder it will be for this administration to tell its friends in Congress and those in the other party in Congress, to back off. There are serious issues that Congress has a voice in, namely: arm sales to Taiwan, China's free trade status. There are members in Congress who have always supported that, who already have said they're not in favor of that any longer. The Administration believes that if this continues much longer, those voices in Congress will force it to change its footing in its relations with China -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Major Garrett, thank you very much.

And as the U.S. adds expressions of sorrow to expressions of regret, China is still insisting on a formal apology.

Joining us now live: CNN Beijing Bureau Chief Rebecca MacKinnon.

Rebecca, what is the impression that you're getting there in Beijing among Chinese officials about President Bush? Is the impression that they're testing him at this early stage in his new administration?

REBECCA MACKINNON, CNN BEIJING BUREAU CHIEF: Well, this is something of a test. People are not characterizing it as a test per se, but the feeling here certainly is that they have not yet found the Bush administration's limit. The feeling is that he has moved, to certain extent, from his initial statements immediately after the U.S. plane landed on Hainan. At that time, President Bush made some very strongly worded statements, demanding the immediate release of the crew and plane, saying nothing about the pilot who was lost on the Chinese side.

And now, a week later, there are expresses of regret, statements that Chinese officials here feel are much more respectful in tone than they had been. But China is still holding out for an apology, and the feeling here on this side is that China has nothing to lose from stalling a little while longer to see if the Bush administration might move a bit further in the direction China wants it to go -- Wolf.

BLITZER: When you say they think they have nothing to lose, what about the potential damage that President Bush is talking about, Secretary of State Colin Powell is talking about, damage to the longstanding interests of the United States and China, the longer this goes on?

MACKINNON: Well, they are certainly aware of those comments. But there is no very specific, "If you do not release the crew by x date we will do y." They're not hearing that. They're hearing general statements.

China, too, has also made very similar statements just in the past few weeks, when talking about the potential U.S. sale of high- tech weaponry to Taiwan. The Chinese officials were saying similar things. If you sell high-tech weaponry to Taiwan, then it will damage the relationship. So this is language that the Chinese side has also used in the past.

And I wouldn't say it's not being taken seriously, I think it is. I think that there's definite concern that if this goes on too long, there could be a damage to the relationship. But at the same time, they're not seeing a hard and fast deadline. They haven't yet seen the limits that they can push to, and so there's a little bit of testing going on here.

BLITZER: Rebecca MacKinnon in Beijing. Thank you very much.

And there are new details tonight on the positioning of the U.S. and Chinese planes at the time of the mid-air collision. For that, we go live to the Pentagon and CNN military affairs correspondent, Jamie McIntyre.

Jamie what have you learned?

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, we still don't have the complete picture, but we're beginning to get a little more of an idea of what was going on, at least from the American crew's perspective. One senior Pentagon official has told us that the crew members have indicated to -- in those meetings they've had with U.S. officials, that the U.S. plane was on autopilot, flying a preprogrammed course in a very conservative manner, while the Chinese fighter jets were performing dangerous aerial maneuvers around the plane.

Now, U.S. officials still won't say whether or not the plane, the U.S. plane, might have made a turn, as was alleged by the Chinese fighter pilot. The surviving pilot last week said the accident was caused when the U.S. plane suddenly swerved into Chinese fighters.

But Pentagon officials point out that even if the plane was flying on autopilot and did begin a course correction, a banking move, it would have been a very slow and deliberate turn, and it would have been the fault of the Chinese fighters, their responsibility to get out of the way of the big, slow prop plane.

So Pentagon officials still withholding complete judgement, though, until they get a chance to totally debrief the crew -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon. Thank you very much.

Up next, he was there at the start of the U.S.-China relationship. I'll discuss that -- the current U.S.-China standoff with the former Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger.

And later, the slow pace of negotiations may seem even slower for relatives waiting anxiously for the detained crew to come home.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. In 1971, he made a secret trip to Beijing, the start of direct U.S. contact with the Chinese leadership. The next year, he took part in President Nixon's historic visit to China. He later went back as secretary of State.

A short while ago, I discussed the U.S.-China standoff with one of the architects of the relationship, Henry Kissinger.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER (on camera): Dr. Kissinger, thank you so much for joining us.

I want to get right to your expertise, understanding diplomacy, understanding the Chinese, the U.S. government as well as you do. Is it time for President Bush to ratchet up the pressure on China to release those 24 Americans?

HENRY KISSINGER, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I don't think so. I think Bush has offered the maximum that can be offered. And if he offered any more -- if he offered any more, there would be such a backlash in the United States that it would even backfire on the Chinese.

On the other hand, ratcheting up the pressure means that the Chinese would have to yield publicly. I think that the Chinese leaders understand -- what I hope they understand that this, that the administration has gone the extra mile, and that if this crisis goes on very much longer, there will be a public reaction and a congressional reaction here that will be very difficult to control. But I don't think...

BLITZER: Would it be ...

KISSINGER: I don't think the president ought to say this. I think there ought to be another 48 to 72 hours of quiet diplomacy.

BLITZER: Would it be useful for some sort of a secret back channel, or a special envoy to be used in this kind of a situation to convey a message between both capitals?

KISSINGER: I think that modern communications being what they are, and the frequent letters that have gone back and forth from the secretary of State, and two letters now -- and the statement from the president and the letter from the president to the widow of that flyer, I think the Chinese leaders ought to understand what our position is.

There are modifications of phraseology that may be possible, but I don't believe that the basic structure of the proposal, which as I understand it, is an expression of regret that has already been made, and a fact-finding commission that will try to determine whether the plane was in international territory or not, and which of the pilots was apparently at fault, that that is the maximum that can be offered.

If that commission should find evidence that sustains the Chinese version of events, then the issue of apology could be looked at again. But first, the prisoners would have to be released.

BLITZER: You used the word "prisoners." Is that deliberate on your part?

KISSINGER: I mean, prisoners -- no, no, that's a bad word. The crew would have to be released.

BLITZER: What about the criticism that the president now finds himself from members of his own party, Republicans, conservatives?

Let me read an excerpt from a new issue of "The Weekly Standard" in which the editors write this: "As the Chinese understand better than American leaders, President Bush has revealed weakness, and he revealed fear of the political, strategic and economic consequences of meeting a Chinese challenge": very strong words coming from Republicans, from conservatives saying the president has already, in their words, humiliated with the United States.

KISSINGER: I don't agree with this. The president is trying to end -- get the crew released. He's expressed a normal reaction of sorrow at the death of a pilot and of the destruction of a Chinese plane.

I think up to now, if it is now ended on this place, the president's handling of it has been statesmanlike and careful. And it's easy to get a crisis started. It's much harder to conclude it. And if we wound up with hostages in Chinese territory over a long period of time, we would have a very serious problem.

However, the time is not unlimited before the voices that you just quoted would become the dominant voices.

BLITZER: Do you believe That President Jiang Zemin fully understands the consequences for U.S.-Chinese relations if this situation drags on?

KISSINGER: It's a strange situation. I was in China two weeks ago and I talked to all the political leaders of consequence. And I have never seen these leaders as eager to establish cooperative relations with the United States since the 1970s as they were there.

At the same time, the military personnel took a more intransigent line, and what seems to me to be happening here is the PLA under whose control the crewmen are, and in the territory where the incident occurred, are digging in their heels. And my impression is that some of these disputes are internal Chinese disputes, which make it difficult to come to a conclusion for them.

BLITZER: So are you suggesting...

KISSINGER: But I think the time has come to come to a conclusion.

BLITZER: Do you -- are you suggesting that President Jiang Zemin may not be fully in control of all the elements that are at that Lingshui Air Base on Hainan Island?

KISSINGER: Well, no, I think he's probably in control of elements. He may not -- the Chinese decision-making process is no longer that authoritarian, that various segments of it cannot express an opinion. And with Jiang Zemin being in South America and other leaders being in China, there may be a certain time lag in -- in making -- in making decisions.

BLITZER: Dr. Kissinger, we have to leave it there unfortunately. Thank you so much for joining us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: After the break, we'll go live to Whidbey Island for more on how the family members of the detained crew members are coping as the days continue to pass without resolution. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Relatives have been able to exchange messages with the detained crew members of the U.S. plane, but are anxiously awaiting their return to Whidbey Island Naval Air Station in Washington state, the home of the EP-3 squadron.

CNN national correspondent Martin Savidge reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Amidst the rugged beauty of Whidbey island, 50 miles north of Seattle, optimism for a quick solution, like the yellow ribbons, is beginning to fade.

With the drama half a world a way, now in its second week, the people of nearby Oak Harbor have begun mixing their commitment to duty with their devotion to faith. At the Oak Harbor United Methodist church, they now ring the church bell daily at noon, 24 times.

PASTOR DAVID LURA, OAK HARBOR UNITED METHODIST: Seeing your airman Curtis Town.

SAVIDGE: And read each name of the crew, now long over due.

LURA: And so, we decided to add the ringing of our bell, but to light a candle, to sit and pray for even but a few minutes and to do that daily, I think is as much as good a way of supporting those beyond our reach as anything else that we can do to let them and their families know that we're thinking of them and praying for them, and are concerned for their well-being.

SAVIDGE: The mostly young crew member families keep their own vigil in private, but the townspeople want them to know they don't wait alone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think they need our prayers, and we just put them in the hand of God, and hope the situation will be resolved pretty soon.

SAVIDGE: Signs remembering the detainees are all over. Yellow ribbon is hard to buy, but support for the families is plentiful.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think we're still, you know, just praying that they'll get home soon, and you know, just day by day. One day at a time.

SAVIDGE: As bald eagles and navy A-6's continue to share the air over Whidbey, the people of Oak Harbor continue to wait for their men and women to return, a long practiced art in this and any Navy town.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE: And the concern now is for what lies ahead in the future. They are making plans here in Oak Harbor for celebration for when the crew eventually does return. Those plans include a parade. Wolf, they'd like to hold that parade next week.

BLITZER: Marty Savidge, Whidbey Island Naval Air Station, thank you very much.

Just ahead: Democrats take aim at President Bush's newly unveiled budget plan. A look at the numbers and what they could mean for you.

And the upper Midwest is racing to protect itself from rising flood waters. We'll explain when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. In other news tonight: President Bush's first budget plan has arrived on Capitol Hill. The 2,500-page book is the first detailed look at the president's $1.96 trillion budget, including proposed spending cuts to make room for his large tax cut. The president's plan is receiving plenty of reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Washington is known for its pork. This budget funds our needs without the fat. It also represents a new way of doing business in Washington and a new way of thinking. Budget puts the taxpayers first.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: This makes no sense. This is a budget that is being paid for by reducing our commitment in areas of education and in health.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: While spending for some education programs actually increases, the president proposal reduces funds for certain school modernization and small health projects.

In western Minnesota and eastern North Dakota, residents are bracing for more rain that will add to already rising flood waters. Melting snow and heavy rains have washed out roads and led to voluntary evacuations along the Red river. With the river not expected to crest until Wednesday, the situation is only expected to get worse. The same area was devastated by a major flood in 1997.

Runoff from melting snow forced a freight train off the tracks in eastern Vermont today, sending one engine into the Connecticut river. No one was injured, but as much as 2,200 gallons of diesel fuel spilled into the water.

Overseas, an investigation is now under way into the deadly British helicopter crash in southern Kosovo. The helicopter, carrying seven British peacekeepers, went down in mountainous terrain during a routine flight today. At least one person was killed. British troops have been among those sent to reinforce the border, because of a recent uprising in Macedonia.

That's all the time we have tonight. Remember, you can e-mail me your comments and read my daily on-line column by going to our WOLF BLITZER REPORTS Web page at cnn.com/wolf.

And please stay with CNN throughout the night. Maury Povich and Connie Chung are Larry King's guests at the top of the hour. Up next, Greta Van Susteren. She's standing by in Austin, Texas, to tell us what she has -- Greta.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST, CNN'S "THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN": Wolf, tonight we're going to talk about women in prison, and two women join me who know what prison is like, Jean Harris and Susan McDougal, they'll tell you all about it -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thanks, Greta. Sounds good. Tomorrow night, we'll have the latest on the standoff with China. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN" begins right now.

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