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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
The U.S./China Standoff: Day 10
Aired April 10, 2001 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Tonight, a CNN special report: "The U.S./China Standoff." The Bush administration says it's done all it can.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's time for our people to come home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Holding onto the crew of the Navy surveillance plane, China's holding out for a formal apology. Saying the U.S. should comply, the Reverend Jessie Jackson offers his help.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. JESSE JACKSON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: I've done this before. I kind of know how to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: We'll go live to our correspondents at the White House and in Beijing and we'll learn more from the Pentagon about he collision that led to this standoff.
Also, have the 24 crew members become hostages? Many Americans now think so. I'll speak with one of them, Senator Robert Torricelli.
Good evening. Welcome to our special report, "The U.S./China Standoff: Day 10." I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting tonight from Washington.
Sometimes in diplomacy, what doesn't happen can send a powerful signal. On this day, there were no formal diplomatic discussions between the United States and China. Also on this day, someone with a long track record in bringing U.S. detainees home offered his services. From the White House, a polite thanks, but no thanks response, as the standoff continues.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): President Bush appears to be preparing Americans for the long haul. BUSH: Diplomacy sometimes takes a little longer than people would like.
BLITZER: The Reverend Jesse Jackson is offering to go to China to help resolve what Mr. Bush is now calling a stalemate.
JACKSON: If I were to get in, I'm convinced that we could bring our troops back home and with honor and build a bridge between both governments.
BLITZER: Jackson's done it before: Winning the release of three U.S. soldiers in Belgrade in 1999, of 47 civilians in Baghdad in 1990, and of Navy pilot Robert Goodman in Damascus in 1984.
But the Bush administration says it's best to leave the negotiations to diplomats, even if there were no high-level meetings on Tuesday. There was one meeting, this one between American diplomats and the detained crew. U.S. officials say they assume these meetings are being bugged. But the diplomats report the crew is being treated well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't say enough about the conditions that they're in. They are extremely good conditions and their spirits remain high, but they're ready to come home and we're ready to take them home.
BLITZER: Chinese President Jiang Zemin says he trusts the two can end the standoff, but still wants an apology.
JIANG ZEMIN, CHINESE PRESIDENT (through translator): Given the important roles of our countries I think we should find an adequate solution to this problem. Other authorities who stayed in the country are trying to find a solution. I trust in their ability to resolve it adequately.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: The Bush administration says it's done all it can for now but it's keeping Jesse Jackson and his mediation offer at arm's length. Let's go live to CNN White House correspondent Major Garrett.
Major, what are they saying at the White House about the fact that there's been no high-level diplomatic meetings over the past day or so?
MAJOR GARRETT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, White House officials are not particularly discouraged at that. What they believe is happening within China is there's a serious debate going on between the political bureaucracy and the military bureaucracy about how to respond to the latest U.S. offer, in the form of a letter, to resolve this entire matter. The White House considers that a potentially good sign. But the White House also doesn't want to get trapped in displaying any outward optimism. They went through that cycle last week. Right now they're keeping their cards close to the chest.
BLITZER: The Chinese ambassador, Major, here in Washington today a wrote a letter to every member of the U.S. House and Senate, saying it would not be a wise idea to get involved in the decision that the Olympic Committee has to make about the 2008 Summer Olympics which China, of course, badly wants. It seems to suggest a sort of raw nerve on the Chinese part that there may be some leverage on that.
GARRETT: Well, let's stick with that card metaphor one more time, Wolf. The Chinese have tried throughout this standoff to indicate to the United States that by holding the 24 U.S. service personnel, they hold the cards. Clearly the letter shows they do not, and the White House is well aware, that first of all, if you want to lobby Congress effectively on any issue between the United States and China, the first thing you should do as the Chinese government is release the service personnel. And the second thing you should not do is try to lecture them about how they should decide the Olympics issue. The White House sees that as a sign that the Chinese are not only sensitive to this issue, but may feel the need at some point in the future to bargain.
BLITZER: Major Garrett at the White House, thank you very much. And saying that the United States' statements of regret are not good enough, China is still insisting on a full apology. Let's go live to Beijing and our bureau chief Rebecca MacKinnon.
Rebecca, first of all, the latest sense that you're getting in Beijing about this standoff, is there any movement at all as far as you can tell?
REBECCA MACKINNON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's definitely in slow motion at the moment. There was very little diplomatic movement here in Beijing Tuesday, our time. It's now Wednesday. The only thing that happened -- there were no meetings between the U.S. ambassador and between the foreign ministry -- the only thing that happened was that the letter from U.S. President Bush to the wife of Chinese fighter pilot Wang Wei was delivered to the foreign ministry, but the foreign ministry wouldn't even confirm that it was passed on to her.
Meanwhile, however, there is an interesting development in the Chinese media this Wednesday morning. The media is reporting remarks made by Secretary of State Colin Powell on Sunday that he is sorry that the U.S. Surveillance plane entered into Chinese airspace. This could be considered to be a sign that the government is preparing public opinion in some way for movement on the crisis -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Rebecca, based on that, what you're seeing in the news media, the official news media of China, as well as the latest statements from president Jiang Zemin, would it appear that there's a softening, if you can tell, of the Chinese government's position?
MACKINNON: It's hard to tell exactly, Wolf. As you did point out, President Jiang Zemin did repeat his demand for an apology but expressing his desire to come to a solution. I think it is true, Chinese authorities don't want this to drag on too long. At the same time they -- it appears that they feel they can't resolve it too quickly either. Most observers here do believe that until there is some closure to the search for Chinese fighter pilot Wang Wei, it's going to be difficult to move forward on releasing the U.S. crew. That search is still ongoing according to the Chinese media.
They claim they're still hoping for a miracle. But until that is resolved one way or another, people consider it unlikely that more than -- more regular visits between the U.S. diplomats and the crew and small increments of progress could be made -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Rebecca MacKinnon in Beijing where it's already Wednesday morning. Thank you very much.
There's new information meanwhile, from the Pentagon about the moments before the midair collision. We get more from CNN military affairs correspondent Jamie McIntyre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pentagon sources say the accident happened after two close calls, in which a Chinese fighter jet twice came within three to five feet of the EP-3 surveillance plane. Then on the third pass, sources say, the Chinese jet approached the U.S. plane from a 45-degree angle, cut it too close, and was hit by the EP-3's number one engine on the left wing, sending the EP-3 into an 8,000-foot dive before the American pilot could regain control.
The Pentagon account comes from brief conversations with the detained U.S. air crew, along with other intelligence sources. According to the account given by the surviving Chinese pilot, the Chinese planes were flying straight and level, and the U.S. plane did a sudden unexpected turn.
WANG WEI, CHINESE FIGHTER PILOT (through translator): It was directly caused by the collision of the U.S. plane veering at a wide angle toward our plane, making it impossible for our plane to avoid it.
MCINTYRE: While not ruling out the EP-3 could have begun a slow turn, U.S. officials doubt it, especially since sources say the U.S. plane was on autopilot, until the moment of the collision.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Many models of aircraft have autopilots, particularly those that are on long legs of a flight plan where no particular maneuvering is required.
A new commercial satellite photograph taken Tuesday morning in China shows the plane is still flanked by seven trucks which experts believe the Chinese are planning to haul away high tech equipment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fact that we do see these trucks about 24-36 hours ago suggests that the Chinese are starting to look very closely at what's inside this aircraft,
MCINTYRE (on camera): An earlier photograph was earlier distorted and seemed to indicate the Chinese might be dismantling the plane. But sources say classified U.S. intelligence photographs clearly show the plane's exterior is in tact and not being taken apart, at least not yet. Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Up next: Are the 24 crewmembers hostages? Many Americans and a growing number of lawmakers now think so. I'll speak with one of them, Senator Robert Torricelli.
And later, who will witness the execution of Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh, and how?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Are they detainees or hostages? And is the United States doing enough to get them back? Should the United States apologize or start taking some actions of its own ?
Joining me now from our Washington bureau Senator Robert Torricelli of New Jersey, a Democratic member of the Foreign Relations Committee. Senator, thanks for joining us. And I want to get right to what you told "The New York Times" this morning. You were quoted as saying this, let me read it to you and put it up on our screen: "Soon, it will become questionable whether it's an appropriate to have both an ambassador and hostages in the same country." Has the time now come to withdraw the U.S. ambassador from China?
SEN. ROBERT TORRICELLI (D), NEW JERSEY: I think, Wolf, that President Bush has had enormous deference to the Chinese and exhibited extraordinary patience, but we're now in a new phase in the problem. And indeed, in the next few days, if indeed there's not some movement from the Chinese, I think it becomes -- we're approaching it becoming inappropriate to have an ambassador and pretend that relation are normal with the Chinese.
BLITZER: Well, what do you say to those who argue that Ambassador Joseph Prueher is the best-qualified to represent the United States. He has diplomatic contacts, he's a former -- he's a retired admiral, commander of the Pacific fleet. What do you say that if you remove him, it will be counterproductive to the entire U.S. effort?
TORRICELLI: Well, I don't doubt that he's very capable of being involved in this problem, but apparently he doesn't have audience that is willing to listen to him. And whatever communication that need to be taking place have to be done from some distance.
I would argue that having him in Beijing on the pretense that relations are normal between the countries is also counterproductive. It's probably being misunderstood by the Chinese who believe that we're prepared to tolerate this kind of conduct.
BLITZER: As you know, the Reverend Jesse Jackson offered today his services, and insisting also, wouldn't be a bad idea for the United States to do what the Chinese government wants, simply to apologize. Listen to what Reverend Jackson said earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. JESSE JACKSON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: If we were to apologize, we lose nothing politically, diplomatically, militarily, economically -- we have nothing to lose and our soldiers to regain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Raises two questions, Senator Torricelli. A, what about his argument that the U.S. has nothing to lose by simply apologizing?
TORRICELLI: Indeed, I think we have a great deal to lose. When great powers use words in legal an diplomatic and military circumstances, there are real consequences. How we allow this matter to get settled, whether we'll compromise our principles and the law for the expediency of their release will be watched by other nation.
We're a global power. Our military forces are on all seas, in the air over all continents. If we allow ourselves to be dealt with with impunity, and we'll compromise our principles and use words loosely, we'll revisit this moment again with other countries.
BLITZER: He's offering up his services. As you know, he does have a track record in bringing American detainees home. Would it be a good idea for Jesse Jackson to go to Beijing right now and try to bring those 24 crew members back to the United States?
TORRICELLI: Well, I think Reverend Jackson's intentions are good, but I do not believe that it would be helpful. This is not some misunderstanding with the Chinese. They know, as we know, there's no question about who was legally right and wrong in these instances.
The Chinese are looking for their own pilot in international waters. Therefore, they're acknowledging they know this took place where we were entitled to be. This plane put out an SOS and attempted to inform the Chinese it was landing in their airport. We were not in the wrong. We don't have anything to be apologize for, there's nothing to be explained. The Chinese know the situation.
BLITZER: As you know, Senator Torricelli, every member of the Senate and the House of Representatives received the identical letter. This letter, a copy of which I have, from the Chinese ambassador here in Washington, saying that members of Congress shouldn't support the resolution which would question China's ability to host the 2008 summer Olympics. Are you prepared at this point to stand off, not to support such a resolution, even if this stalemate continues?
TORRICELLI: Well, Wolf, indeed, I believe this is not a question of whether there are going to be consequences for Chinese-American relations. If this matter ends tomorrow, we've learned some unfortunate things about China and its respect for the law. There are going to be consequences whether anyone of us wants it or not.
The hosting of Olympics, our trade relationship, our diplomatic relationship are only a part of what is going to be reviewed, not only by every member of Congress, by every American. BLITZER: Well, one of the immediate considerations you're going to have to consider in the coming months, or early June -- perhaps as early as then -- extending -- renewing what used to be called "most favored nation" trade status with China, permanent normal trade relations, which was approved last year, but hasn't gone into effect because China still is not a member of the World Trade Organization. You supported PNTR, permanent normal trade relations. Are you rethinking that stance right now?
TORRICELLI: Well, Wolf, let me combine your two questions. Just as I think the international community needs to ask whether or not we want the Olympics to be held in a country that holds people against their will and violates international law -- that's not spirit of the Olympics.
Similarly, I would argue that if China has so little respect for international law that it will hold these American servicemen, members of Congress need to ask whether we can trust Chinese to respect international law, our own laws and their laws, in trade agreement. Indeed, they may not be the partner we thought they were.
BLITZER: What about the upcoming decision the Bush administration must make on selling a new class of destroyers with Aegis-class radars to Taiwan, which would obviously deeply anger the Chinese government?
TORRICELLI: I think that's the most difficult thing to understand in this crisis. The Chinese are making the case for Taiwan. The Taiwanese have argued they needed defense because China has not yet evolved into a respectable member of the international community that regards international treaties and laws as they should be regarded. China is making that case, and I believe now it will be very difficult for George Bush to explain to the United States Congress that he's not proceeding with these arm sales, after this contempt the Chinese have shown for law.
BLITZER: Senator Robert Torricelli of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, thanks for joining us tonight.
TORRICELLI: Thanks for having me.
BLITZER: Thank you.
And after the break, Attorney General John Ashcroft moves closer to deciding whether to grant televised access to the execution of Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh.
And protests escalate in Cincinnati over a fatal weekend police shooting. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. We have a developing story in Cincinnati, Ohio that we're monitoring. We want to tell you about that. Officers in riot gear are trying to break up demonstrators protesting the fatal shooting of an unarmed man over the weekend by police. Joining us now by phone is Lieutenant Ray Ruberg of the Cincinnati Police Department.
Lieutenant, tell us what's happening right now.
LT. RAY RUBERG, CINCINNATI POLICE DEPARTMENT: We have riotous conditions down here in the Cincinnati area. A community called (UNINTELLIGIBLE). We have arson going on; we have vandalism. Windows being broke. Individuals driving their vehicles, their cars being broken by individuals in this disorderly crowd. It's progressing throughout the entire community.
BLITZER: Is there any word of injuries? And how many people are participating, as best as you could tell?
I'd say there -- it's been sporadic. I'd say at least a hundred and sometimes more. The crowd picks up as it moves. There has been injuries, numerous injuries throughout this evening. This incident started around 3:00 p.m. today. We've had a number of injuries. Some have been taken to the hospital.
BLITZER: And we're showing some pictures on our screen from what happened earlier today. How many police are now involved in trying to deal with the problem?
We've got civil disturbance operational procedure that's put in place and few hundred officers on scene down here. We have recall capability if additional are needed.
BLITZER: Lieutenant Ray Ruberg of the Cincinnati Police Department, thank you so much for joining us; we'll continue to monitor the situation in Cincinnati.
In other news tonight, a decision is expected this week on whether the execution of convicted bomber Timothy McVeigh will be shown on closed-circuit television. Attorney General John Ashcroft met today with families and survivors of the Oklahoma city bombing to consider whether to grant their request to watch McVeigh's execution next month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I'm here today to here from the families; I will spend a significant amount of time with them. I'll do my best to respect their needs and their wishes in ways that are consistent with the fulfillment of my responsibilities to carry out justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Justice officials say Ashcroft is leaning towards granting the request. The bulls back on Wall Street. Dow jumped 257 points today to close above 2000 for the first time in almost a month.
The Nasdaq composite surged 106, to end at 1,852. Much of the rally was led by a rebound in technology stocks.
And a familiar face is returning to CNN. Starting May 14, Lou Dobbs will return as anchor and managing anchor of "MONEYLINE" News Hour. Dobbs was a founder of CNN's financial news division, and anchor for 19 years. In addition to his duties in "MONEYLINE," he'll contribute to the transformation later this year of the CNNfn network to CNNfn Money.
Up next, I'll open our mailbag. We've been flooded with e-mail on the standoff with China. Some of you want Americans to take a closer look at those "made in China" labels. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Time now to open our mailbag. Lots of reaction to the U.S./China standoff. Sharleen from New Hampshire e- mails us with this:
"Why doesn't the U.S. just apologize to China? We were, after all, spying on them. If we hadn't been there, that poor pilot would still be alive. If the situation were reversed, you can bet the outcry for an apology, and even more, from China would be reverberating through Congress and the public alike."
But Chris from California writes:
"The niceties of diplomacy have failed to win the release of the detainees. Perhaps it is time for the American public to express its regret by taking direct action. As for me, I have put a yellow ribbon on my front door, and will refuse to purchase any product made in China for one month for each day beyond today that our crew spends on Hainan."
Remember, you can e-mail me: at wolf@cnn; I just might read your comments on the air. And you can read my daily on-line column previewing our nightly programs by going to our WOLF BLITZER REPORTS web site: cnn.com/wolf.
Please stay with CNN throughout the night. Former U.S. ambassador to China James Sasser and former national security adviser Samuel Berger are among Larry King's guests at the top of the hour.
Up next, Greta Van Susteren. She's standing by in Austin, Texas, to tell us what she has -- Greta?
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST, CNN'S "THE POINT": Well, Wolf, tonight I'll take the viewers to Oklahoma City. We'll talk to Governor Keating of the state of Oklahoma and find out why members of the community want to watch the execution of Timothy McVeigh. That's on May 16th -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks, Greta. Sounds good.
Tomorrow night, we'll have the latest on the U.S./China standoff. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "THE POINT" with Greta Van Susteren begins right now.
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