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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Declassified CIA Files Reveal Post-War Collaboration Between U.S. Intelligence Agencies and Nazis

Aired April 27, 2001 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Tonight: some top Nazi war criminals vanished after World War II. Where? Others became paid agents of U.S. intelligence. Why? And what did a German doctor say about the mental health of Adolf Hitler, before the war? Eighteen thousand pages of CIA files are declassified. We'll have a report.

With a go-ahead from a U.S. judge, the Navy resumes bombing and shelling on Puerto Rico's Vieques Island, while protesters try to stop the exercises. We'll have a live report.

And I'll discuss Ronald Reagan's legacy with his closest aid and long time family friend Michael Deaver.

Good evening. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting tonight from Washington.

It's been more than half a century since the end of World War II, but we're still learning shocking details about the Holocaust and its aftermath. Today the Central Intelligence Agency released thousands of previously classified documents on Adolf Hitler and his top lieutenants, and on the post-war U.S. role in protecting some of them.

The documents show they were put to work by the U.S. intelligence community during the early years of the Cold War with the Soviet Union, despite their known record of war crimes. CNN national security correspondent David Ensor has been reviewing the documents and has our top story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The documents reveal more about former Nazi intelligence officers like Wilhelm Hoetl and Klaus Barbie, known as the "Butcher of Lyons," who were hired after the war by U.S. and other Western intelligence agencies to help against the Soviet KGB. They show, say historians and officials, how little the U.S. apparently got for hiring ex-Nazis and how immoral it was to have hired them.

RICHARD BREITMAN, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY: It was a horrendous mistake, morally, politically and also in very pragmatic intelligence terms.

ELI ROSENBAUM, JUSTICE DEPARTMENT: The real winners of the Cold War were Nazi criminals. Many of whom were able to escape justice because East and West became so rapidly focused after the war on challenging each other.

ENSOR (on camera): A 1953 document stats that Hoetl, who had been hired by the U.S. to set up a spy ring against the Soviets, should be dropped, because by that time U.S. officials realized that, quote, "This well-known fabricator is very adept at lying and evasion and we deem it very unlikely that a straight story will be obtained from him."

(voice-over): The files also reveal new information about the role of Allen Dulles, the then U.S. intelligence chief in Berne, Switzerland, later CIA chief. Dulles argued against prosecuting Nazi intelligence officers with whom he had negotiated the early surrender of some German forces in Northern Italy saying it would send the wrong signal to potential future agents.

TIMOTHY NAFTALI, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: A group of German intelligence officers who understood that they were vulnerable to war crimes prosecution at the end of the war decided to recreate themselves as messengers of peace.

ENSOR: The newly released files also shed light on the mysterious disappearance in 1945 of the Gestapo chief Heinrich Mueller, who orchestrated the Holocaust for Hitler. They show that the CIA concluded after a study that Mueller had almost certainly not fallen into Soviet hands, was never employed by the CIA or any other Western agency, and most likely died at his own hand in 1945.

And then there is one intriguing file on Adolf Hitler himself, the prescient views of a Berlin surgeon in early 1937 based on close observation of Hitler. He had formed the opinion that the Nazi leader was a border case between genius and insanity who could easily swing toward the latter. Professor Ferdinand Sauerbruch said, "If so, then Hitler would become the craziest criminal the world ever saw."

David Ensor, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: The chief prosecutor for the international war crimes tribunal is calling on the United States to arrest the two main war crimes suspects still at large in the former Yugoslavia. Carla Del Ponte says now is the time to bring in Bosnian Serb wartime leaders Radovan Karadzic and General Ratko Mladic. She says it's also time for Yugoslav authorities to turn over former President Slobodan Milosevic to the tribunal. He was arrested last month in Belgrade.

Del Ponte spoke with CNN's Christiane Amanpour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Could he face charges of genocide?

CARLA DEL PONTE, CHIEF WAR CRIMES PROSECUTOR: Yes. Yes. AMANPOUR: You plan to indict him on charges of genocide?

PONTE: Yes. Yes, but if I will keep the count of genocide in the indictment, I would be sure that I have enough evidence, because I will not take a risk that he will be acquitted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The U.S. Navy has gone back to its bombing and shelling at practice range on Puerto Rico's island of Vieques. A federal judge turned down a request by the Puerto Rican government to halt the bombardments.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): The U.S. Navy got the go-ahead in court on Thursday, and quickly resumed its training exercises. Puerto Rican protests resumed as well. Nearly 200 people gathered near the bombing range to denounce the training missions.

Some protesters broke through security lines. A couple of dozen were detained. They contend these missions create noise pollution that harms their health. But the Navy, using 500-pound dummy bombs that it says will not explode, insists that's not true. The issue captured attention when a stray bomb killed a civilian security guard in 1999. The Navy has been using this range for 60 years and says Vieques has the perfect topography for preparing its men and women for combat.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: For more on the bombing, and the efforts to stop it, let's go live to Vieques, and CNN's John Zarrella.

John, tell us what's happening right now.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, right now, for the most part the protesters are still here. They've taken a break for a couple of hours and it had dwindled the crowd to perhaps about 50. But just a few minutes ago there were at least 100-150 protesters marching here behind me. You can see the security troops, the security police -- Puerto Rican security police -- still here. They have been here since early this morning and will probably be here all night.

There are probably about 150 protesters here again now. You can't see them. They are off to my right side. We will try to get you a shot -- a little bit of a shot -- of them. And they say they will continue the acts of civil disobedience. There are protesters who are believed to be out on the Camp Garcia site tonight. More of them are saying they will try to infiltrate during the overnight hours, perhaps and making their way back on tonight so that they can, they say, disrupt the war games, the military exercises that are expected to resume tomorrow, and last for several more days -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And John, any sense how long these protests will continue? Presumably for the duration of exercises?

ZARRELLA: Presumably, in some form or another, at least, could be three days, could be up to a week they say they will be here protesting. And this issue has really become a nationalistic issue. This island, Vieques, has become a rallying point for many Puerto Rican people. We talked to some people who came over from San Juan, lots of people who are coming over from the big island, as they call it, to join in solidarity with the people of Vieques saying they want the Navy out after 60 years. It's time for the Navy to stop polluting their island, as they say, and to get out.

It's a nationalistic issue now. One where the Puerto Ricans say this is symbolic of the fact that they really don't control their own destiny without the United States stepping in all the time, putting its own 2 cents worth in -- Wolf.

BLITZER: John Zarrella in Vieques in Puerto Rico, thank you very much for joining us.

Up next: He was Ronald Reagan's closest aide, and he's been a close friend of the Reagan family. I'll speak live with Michael Deaver about his 30 years with President Reagan, and the Reagan legacy.

And later: A traffic jam in orbit? With the shuttle Endeavor still docked at the space station, a Russian craft, carrying a billionaire space tourist, will soon be on its way.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. He worked with Governor Ronald Reagan and President Ronald Reagan. Nancy Reagan has called him "indispensable." He shared the good times and the tough times, and he's now written a new book on Ronald Reagan, his friend; Ronald Reagan, the world leader; and the Reagan mystique. It's titled "A Different Drummer."

I'm joined now by Michael Deaver. Mr. Deaver, thanks for joining us.

MICHAEL DEAVER, FORMER REAGAN AIDE: You bet.

BLITZER: You were there for the first 100 days of the Ronald Reagan presidency. Compare it briefly to the first 100 days of the George W. Bush presidency.

DEAVER: Well, obviously, the times were different. We had double-digit inflation, double-digit interest rates, serious economic problems. We still had Soviet missiles pointed at us, so it was a totally different time. But I think there are some comparisons that are apt. They were both very focused. They both knew what their agenda was going to be. They put together a pretty good team, and they stayed very focused.

BLITZER: Many people say, though, that George W. Bush is trying to in certain ways emulate Ronald Reagan, but a lot of people say it's unfair given Ronald Reagan's tremendous communication skills. We have an example of that. I want to play this probably the most memorable soundbite from the Reagan presidency. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALD REAGAN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will never forget them, nor the last time we saw them, this morning, as they prepared for their journey and waved goodbye and slipped the surly bonds of Earth to touch the face of God.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Is it fair to hold George W. Bush up to that standard?

DEAVER: No, I think there are very few people that are ever going to reach the standard that Reagan set for being able to connect the way he did with the American people, and people around the world for that matter.

BLITZER: It's a tough act to follow for anybody. One of the things you do make in the book a comparison of President Ronald Reagan -- a lot of his supporters won't be happy with this -- with President Bill Clinton. In fact, you write in the book this, you say: "They do have things in common. Both are tireless campaigners. Both genuinely loved people, and Clinton, like Reagan, feeds off a live audience."

DEAVER: No question. But there's some other big differences that we all know about too.

BLITZER: The differences that eventually came during the Monica Lewinsky scandal?

DEAVER: Well -- obviously that, but I also think that Reagan had much more of a committed agenda to get some very big things done. I don't think that at the end of eight years, there is that much that Clinton can say he got done. It was, in my opinion, a wasted opportunity.

BLITZER: But in terms of politicians, they had a lot of similarities.

DEAVER: In terms of being able to connect with the people, they had a lot of similarities.

BLITZER: Does President Bush have that talent to connect with people out there?

DEAVER: Well, he has a talent to connect with people. Whether he has that ability that Reagan had, I'm not sure. We may see it. He may grow into that.

BLITZER: One of the other things you write in the book, you suggest that after the assassination attempt, you believe that President Reagan made a complete, full recovery in all aspects, whereas Edmund Morris, his biographer, has a different opinion, saying basically he was never the same after that assassination attempt. DEAVER: Well, Edmund is just wrong as far as I am concerned. And I say that in the book. And I was there every day after the assassination for four more years, so I didn't see anything except Reagan -- two things happened to Reagan after the assassination. He got stronger physically, and he became more committed to his own instincts, following his own instincts rather than relying on others.

BLITZER: But he was also very much dependent on Nancy Reagan, obviously the love of his life, his wife. One of the things you do write in the book, you say this: "Reagan made no secret that he never would have succeeded politically without her. He would be especially lost without her help on staff problems." A lot of members of the White House staff were not exactly happy with Nancy Reagan's role during those years, as you well know.

DEAVER: Well, some people were not happy with Nancy's role, perhaps. Some of those people weren't there anymore either. But the truth of the matter is that Nancy was watching out for Ronald Reagan from the very first, and I think if he were able to, he'd say, I wouldn't have never been president or governor without her. It was a team, there is no question about it.

BLITZER: Because she always encouraged him?

DEAVER: Because she always wanted to make it possible for him to do what she knew he wanted to do.

BLITZER: Did he depend on her, though, on specific substantive domestic or foreign policy issues?

DEAVER: No, of course not. She was not -- I mean, she never appeared at a cabinet meeting. She was not somebody who, when he came home at night, said, honey, you know, you got to do more on prescription drugs. That was not what she saw her role. Her role was to make life as comfortable for him, and to make the culture and the climate around him possible so that he could do what she knew he could do.

BLITZER: Tell us what -- I know you're still in touch, obviously, with Nancy Reagan and with President Reagan. You write in the book that the last time you saw him, you felt he really didn't remember who you were.

DEAVER: No, I don't think he did. But you know, this is a terrible disease, and it's -- he is in some world of his own now, and it's really much more terrible on the people around him, particularly Nancy, who's, you know, the care-giver, who is there 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And you know, I think this is probably is her finest hour.

BLITZER: You also suggested in the book that when he went public with the Alzheimer's, it was a remarkable moment, but it was typical Ronald Reagan.

DEAVER: Absolutely. Nancy told me that he said, you know, we've always talked about these things, your cancer and mine, and the other problems we've had physically. I think we ought to talk about this too. And she agreed. He went in and wrote the note, came back and showed it to her, and that was it.

BLITZER: Physically, the last you heard, how's he doing right now? He had a fall, obviously.

DEAVER: He's 90-plus. He broke his hip. He's got Alzheimer's. But he's comfortable, and is up a part of the day. Nancy is there to keep him comfortable. But it's, you know, it's not a happy time.

BLITZER: A great read. "A Different Drummer," that's the name of the book. Michael Deaver, thanks for joining us. Thank you.

And after the break, friends and family say farewell to a missionary and her daughter shot down over Peru.

And later: could a mission to bring Dennis Tito to the international space station be delayed? We'll explain.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. In other news tonight: a memorial is under way in Michigan for a missionary and her seven-month-old daughter who were killed in a shooting attack in Peru. Hundreds of mourners are gathered to say goodbye to Roni and Charity Bowers. They were killed last week when the Peruvian air force fired at their plane, suspecting it was smuggling drugs. An American delegation is heading to Peru this weekend to investigate the incident.

A bus carrying dozens of middle school band members crashed in Canada today, killing four children. The students were traveling from Newton, Massachusetts, to Halifax, where they were to perform for another middle school. Investigators say the bus driver lost control and overturned on an exit ramp, while most of the passengers were asleep. Thirty-seven people were injured.

Stocks rallied on Wall Street today, following indications the economy picked up in the first quarter. The nation's gross domestic product, the broadest measure of economic activity, rose a stronger- than-expected 2 percent. Today's report capped a record 10 years of economic expansion. The boost was largely fueled by increased consumer spending.

President Bush's 19-year-old daughter Jenna was cited by the Austin, Texas police early this morning for alcohol possession while underage. She is a first-year student at the University of Texas, and was one of four people cited during a sweep of bars. She was not arrested. The White House, in keeping with its past practice of not discussing matters involving the president's two daughters, declined to comment.

Tonight on the "Leading Edge": computer trouble aboard the international space station forced NASA today to add an extra day to the shuttle Endeavor mission. NASA wants to extend its stay a second day, and has asked Russia to delay tomorrow's launch of the Soyuz spacecraft carrying wealthy American Dennis Tito. Russia so far has refused.

For more, here's CNN Moscow bureau chief Jill Dougherty.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): Dennis Tito, soon to be the first space tourist, says he's ready for a change of scenery.

DENNIS TITO, SPACE TOURIST: I've been on this planet for 60 years, and now I have a chance to get off the planet and circle it once every 90 minutes.

DOUGHERTY: After surviving nine months of physical training with the Russian space program, including a Siberian wilderness course and nine hours of classes, this California multimillionaire says he's ready for six days on the international space station. Tito paid Russia a reported $20 million for a chance to fly.

TITO: And I think private citizens from all walks of life will be able to take the experience, the spiritual experience of space, the emotional experience of space, and relate it back to the common person.

DOUGHERTY: Tito's ticket is almost paid for.

TITO: There's a schedule of payments, and I can tell you that the last payment gets made the day I land.

DOUGHERTY: In one piece. Jill Dougherty, CNN, Moscow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Up next, I'll open our mailbag. Lots of reaction still to my interview with former senator and Vietnam war veteran Bob Kerrey. And some of you think he's a hero; others say he's playing politics. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Time now to open our mailbag. Lots of reaction to former Senator Bob Kerrey's disclosure of killing civilians in Vietnam 32 years ago. Craig from Columbia, South Carolina, writes: "I feel Senator Kerrey is being punished by the media. He had the courage to go to Vietnam, and he had the courage to come forward. As far as I am concerned, his credibility is intact."

Grant from Atlanta writes: "It took great courage for him to reveal this inner demon that has been haunting him for decades. I believe he is an excellent role model for all Americans, whether in uniform or not."

But Marylou from Riverdale, New York, has a different view: "It is post time and the 2004 presidential race is on. Kerrey is planning to run, and is now forced to run ahead of the press with his strategic confessional." Remember, you can e-mail me at wolf@cnn.com. I just might read your comments on the air. And you can read my daily online column and sign up for my daily e-mail previewing our nightly programs by going to our WOLF BLITZER REPORTS Web site: cnn.com/wolf.

Please stay with CNN throughout the night. Vice President Dick Cheney is Larry King's guest at the top of the hour. Up next, Greta Van Susteren.

She's standing by to tell us what she has -- Greta.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST, CNN'S "THE POINT": Wolf, tonight we have Maureen Orth who is a special correspondent for "Vanity Fair" magazine. She's got an extensive, fascinating interview that is going to be in the June edition of "Vanity Fair" on Denise Rich and her family.

Plus, we're going to talk about the controversy about Senator Bob Kerrey. We have lots of opinions on it, and two people who are very passionate about it, will join us -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thanks, Greta. Sounds very good. I'll see you Sunday on "LATE EDITION." Among my guests: President Bush's top political adviser Karl Rove, plus James Carville and Katherine Harris. That's Sunday, noon Eastern. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I am Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN" begins right now.

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