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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Jim Jeffords Bolts From GOP, Will Give Democrats Control of Senate

Aired May 24, 2001 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight: a special report, shake-up in the Senate. Vermont's James Jeffords makes it official: He's leaving the Republican Party to become an independent.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JAMES JEFFORDS (R), VERMONT: I have changed my party label but I have not changed my beliefs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Jeffords says it is the Republican Party that has changed, growing more conservative and inflexible.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: But respectfully, I couldn't disagree more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Did someone drop the ball at the White House? I'll ask top adviser Mary Matalin.

And, what now?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MINORITY LEADER: The historic 50-50 Senate now becomes history itself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: I'll speak live with Republican Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison and Democrat John Edwards.

And, we'll go live to our correspondents Candy Crowley in Vermont, John King at the White House, and Jonathan Karl on Capitol Hill.

Good evening. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting tonight from Capitol Hill. With the exception of three brief weeks in January, the Democrats have not been in control of the Senate for more than six years. Now, that's about to change.

Today, Republican Senator James Jeffords of Vermont announced he's leaving the GOP to become an independent. He says he'll support Democrat Tom Daschle to become the Senate majority leader. Democrats also will control Senate committees. White House officials are assessing what that means for the president's agenda. Tonight, on our special report, we will have complete coverage of what's potentially shaping up as a political earthquake.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFFORDS: I find myself in disagreement with my party. I understand that many people are more conservative than I am. And they form the Republican Party. Given the changing nature of the national party, it has become a struggle for our leaders to deal with me, and for me to deal with them.

BLITZER (voice-over): It's a major setback for President Bush, who loses his Senate majority after just four months in office.

BUSH: I respect Senator Jeffords. But I respectfully -- but respectfully, I couldn't disagree more.

BLITZER: Democrats could barely disguise excitement.

DASCHLE: We can't dictate to them, nor can they dictate to us.

BLITZER: Republicans looked for a silver lining.

SEN. TRENT LOTT (R-MS), MAJORITY LEADER: We have the president that we are going to be working with, and we will use his megaphone, the American people.

BLITZER: This shake-up tips the scales on the Senate's most influential committees. Vermont Democrat Patrick Leahy is expected to become chairman of Judiciary Committee, replacing Utah's Orrin Hatch. At stake, President Bush's judicial nominations. Michigan's Carl Levin would replace Virginia's John Warner as chairman of the Armed Services Committee. In the balance, missile defense.

Delaware's Joe Biden is expected to become chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee replacing North Carolina's Jesse Helms. U.S. ties to the United Nations could change.

Jeffords' party affiliation will officially change when Congress sends the president's tax cut plan to his desk.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: For perspective on why James Jeffords jumped ship, the factors that led to his tough decision, let's go live to Burlington, Vermont and CNN's senior political correspondent Candy Crowley.

Candy, why was Senator Jeffords so upset at the Republican Party?

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Look, he was treated badly. It was very clear from the clip you used and from the entire news conference that he said, quite simply, it is difficult for them to deal with me and it's difficult for me to deal with them. He was well out of his comfort zone. It was not just a matter of policy, although that is what he talked about today. It was also a matter of the treatment, and so he just felt that those two things together meant that he needed to leave.

BLITZER: Candy, from what you can tell in Vermont how are his constituents reacting to this decision?

CROWLEY: Well, it is interesting, Wolf. I was watching the local news, earlier where they had a poll that they had taken before the announcement but when everybody knew what was happening, saying what would you like Senator Jeffords to do? And most people said they would like him to stay a Republican.

Having said that -- and who can explain that? -- this is a largely liberal Democratic state that loves the title "independent." And everyone suspects that this won't make a bit of difference. It's a very small state, so a lot of people know Jim Jeffords, so if this is the decision that he has made, it is something they are willing to go along with because in a small state do you get to get out and about and get known.

He has been their senator for three terms now -- just starting his third term -- he's been congressman for much longer than that, so the fact is they are willing to trust him on this. And he really does -- this is more his getting in line with the voters in Vermont than anything else. It is here that it will be most well received.

BLITZER: Candy Crowley in Vermont. Thank you very much.

Besides pointing to a laundry list of policy differences, Senator Jeffords says the Republican Party is becoming more conservative and more inflexible since the election of President Bush. Within the past hour, I spoke with longtime GOP activist Mary Matalin, recently of CNN's "CROSSFIRE." Today she's a top assistant to President Bush and counselor to the vice president.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Mary Matalin, thanks for joining us. I know this has been a hectic day for you. The blame game in Washington has already begun. I'm sure you have heard some of the recriminations, some of the accusations that have been hurled: one of them being that your boss, Dick Cheney, the vice president of the United States, the president of the Senate, blew it in his dealings with Jim Jeffords.

MARY MATALIN, ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT: Wolf, we are not playing the blame game around here. We're putting this in the perspective of the day, which is, today was passed with 62 votes, the biggest tax increase --tax cut, rather -- in two decades, and the most sweeping education reform since 1965.

This is about results. Dick Cheney was on the Hill, almost around the clock during the negotiations, and had many meetings with Senator Jeffords, and Senator Jeffords made this decision by himself or in concert with his new party. But there is there is no blame game going on around here.

BLITZER: Were you caught flat-footed? Was this a total surprise that Jim Jeffords was going to leave the GOP?

MATALIN: Well, it was no surprise that he had a different idea about the tax cut, which he ultimately voted for, but this White House was focused on -- this president -- was focused on getting that tax cut in place, which has happened in record time, and getting the education reform bill passed, getting the whole budget resolution done and the other events of the day.

So I don't know that being caught flat-footed was what anybody was thinking about.

BLITZER: You heard the extraordinary criticism today from the Republican Senator from Arizona, John McCain, issued a release, blaming in effect the Republican Party. Here is a little excerpt from that, "Tolerance of dissent is the hallmark of a mature party, and it is well past time for the Republican Party to grow up." Is that criticism fair?

MATALIN: This president has met with more Congresspeople than any president in history. He has them down here all the time. Dick Cheney is on the Hill all the time. This is a big party. There is clearly lots of views in the party, but the reality is 00 and let's think about what America is seeing -- the first tax cut in two decades, a significant tax cut.

That is what the president ran on. That's what 62 senators supported and the House supported. I mean, that is the focus: education reform, tax cuts. The next focus will be securing retirement and lowering energy bills for families. We are focused on results.

BLITZER: Those are important results, but there is also the important fact that the Democrats are now going to control the Senate. And that is going to force the White House, the president perhaps, to rethink some of his agenda. Will he?

MATALIN: Look, Wolf, this agenda is not the president's agenda like you pulled it out of the sky. This is America's agenda. Families want lower energy prices. Families want lower taxes. Families want better education for their kids. Families want a more secure retirement.

The reason Bush came to town and ran in first place, and has often said, was not to mark time, but to get things done. And he's getting things done in record time. And if the Democrats obstruct that forward progress, it is theirs to answer for, not the president's.

BLITZER: Will you dealing differently with other moderate Republicans now, like Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island, for example? MATALIN: I think as you, in particular, chronicled through the tax debate and the budget debate, there could not have been more meetings with Jim Jeffords. There could not be more meetings with Lincoln Chafee or the other so-called "moderates." Everybody was met with, of all stripes across the party and both parties for that matter. And I will say again, this historic tax legislation was passed with 12 Democrats, a quarter of the Democratic caucus.

BLITZER: Mary Matalin, thanks for joining us.

MATALIN: Thanks, Wolf.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And as the president vows to move ahead with his agenda, he'll be moving into uncharted waters. Let's turn now to our senior White House correspondent, John King. John, we heard from Mary Matalin, the official response from the White House. What are you hearing behind the scenes, how are they accepting this decision by Senator Jeffords?

JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they are quite devastated by it in the sense that they know how much it will complicate their agenda. On the other hand, they're rejecting any notion that they are to blame here at the White House. A lot of fingers being pointed at political staff here. Karl Rove runs the president's political operation, a lot of Senate Republicans pointing fingers at him.

Nick Calio, the president's top liaison on Capitol Hill, other Republicans blaming him. They say this administration has played hard ball with Senator Jeffords and other moderates as well. As you heard Mary say, the administration rejects that. They think this has lot more to do with internal Senate Republican politics and that Senator Jeffords is just blaming the president because you get bigger headlines.

They say he has feuded with Majority Leader Trent Lott, soon to be Minority Leader Lott, and more importantly with one of his subcommittee chairmen on the education issue, Senator Judd Greg of New Hampshire. So here at the White House they believe this is much more a Senate feud, and much more about Senator Jeffords future political interests, perhaps for running for governor.

They will take the heat. They say they need to focus on the future, though.

BLITZER: John, today the Senate confirmed Theodore Olson to be the next solicitor-general. But how worried do you think the people at the White House are now that other controversial nominees with the Democratic majority in the Senate, how worried are they that they could face some serious problems?

KING: They are worried, but they say the president is prepared to fight for his nominees and they believe he could benefit, rally conservative base if he has to do so. On that front, there was a 10- minute conversation today between the president, and soon to be Majority Leader Tom Daschle.

Both men promised to work together at the White House here, though they know there will be agreement on some issues. They are expecting some fights, one or two, over nominees, probably judicial nominees in the near future.

BLITZER: John King at the White House. Thank you very much.

And as Democrats look forward to taking over the Senate, and Republicans wonder what went wrong, let's go to the other side of Capitol Hill and CNN congressional correspondent Jonathan Karl.

John, how angry are some of those Republicans at Trent Lott, the Republican leader in the Senate?

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Oh, there is deep discontent with not only Trent Lott, but with the rest of the Republican leadership and with the White House, as to how the White House dealt with this. There was a meeting with the full contingent of Republican senators, earlier today. It dragged on for more than two hours as senator after senator got up to say it is time to reassess strategy.

It is not just Jeffords. Remember, this Republican majority was once a 7 seat commanding Republican majority, but over the last two elections and with this latest move, is now about to become a minority here in the Senate. So there is lots of talk of how, of what's been happening.

John King mentioned Judd Gregg. Well it's said, especially among moderates that one of the things that got Jim Jeffords so upset is that Lott essentially made Judd Gregg the point man on education. And of course, education, well that is the committee that Jeffords chaired. So they saw that as a real slight.

BLITZER: Finally, John, you heard me report earlier that the expectation that Senator Joseph Biden, the ranking Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee would become the chairman succeeding Jesse Helms. But what are you hearing? You're hearing something differently tonight?

KARL: Well, there may be a real power struggle up here within the Democratic caucus as they hand out committee chairmanships. Joe Biden is in line for that Foreign Relations Committee, but he is also the senior Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, and he is telling people that he would like to take back the Judiciary Chairmanship, and that would put Leahy out of a job.

He is in line right now, if Biden is not to be Judiciary Chairman, but Biden wants that. That opens up a whole new can of worms for the Democrats. Leahy might want to become Agriculture chairman. Right now that is Tom Harkin in line for that. Tom Harkin is up for reelection. So look for some wars up here among the Democrats as they hand out those committee chairmanships.

BLITZER: Presumably, John, Senator Patrick Leahy would not be happy. We will be following that story as well. Thank you so much for joining us.

And as stunned Republicans watch power slip from their grasp, eager Democrats wait to take over the reins. I'll discuss the Senate shake-up with Democrat John Edwards and Republican Kay Bailey Hutchison. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. One man, one decision, and a lot of changes in store for the Senate. Joining me now to discuss the shake- up are two members of that very exclusive club: Kay Bailey Hutchison, an influential Republican from Texas, and John Edwards, an up-and- coming Democrat from North Carolina.

Senators, thanks for joining us. Senator Hutchison, you are a leader in the Republican -- among the Republicans in the Senate. The accusation is you ignored the moderates like Senator Jeffords and now you've lost the majority.

SEN. KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON (R), TEXAS: Well, I think that Senator Lott and many people in the caucus have certainly reached out to Senator Jeffords, and we really didn't know there was this kind of problem. I mean, we have had disagreements. I mean that is the nature of being in the Senate. But, we didn't know that he was feeling the depth that he clearly was and his best friends in the moderate group didn't know it either. And nevertheless, it is a loss and we wish it hadn't happened

BLITZER: You heard the criticism from Senator John McCain. He told the Republican Party basically to shape up. Chris Shays, a moderate Republican from Connecticut in the House, he said this in today's "Washington Post," he said, "Jim Jeffords is a good man and he has been under a barrage of attacks by his own colleagues," meaning conservatives in the Senate.

HUTCHISON: I have never heard anyone attack Senator Jeffords, and I think we all know that his state is different from maybe my state, or even Senator Edwards's state. And people have to represent their state in the best way they can. So I don't think that is true. But I do think that we need to look at ourselves, learn from this, and try to do better.

BLITZER: Some Republicans, Senator Edwards, are already looking for some advantages in this new Democratic majority in the Senate. Bill Kristol, the editor of "The Weekly Standard," wrote this only today. He said, "If the political and economic and foreign policy worlds are going to be a mess over the next year and a half, then Bush could use a Democratic Senate to his advantage," meaning if there are problems he could blame the obstructionist Democrats, presumably like you.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D), NORTH CAROLINA: Well, I think we have a responsibility here, Wolf. I think the people who really benefit from this change are the people of America, particularly mainstream America, because I think what's likely to happen, is we'll have a more balanced agenda on the floor of United States Senate, an agenda that's more reflective of the views of mainstream America.

And we, taking over responsibility for leadership, have to show that we deserve that responsibility by reaching out to our Republican colleagues, and reach out to the White House.

BLITZER: But you know the criticism, the accusation is that you are going to try to block all the rest of the President Bush's agenda. He has got the tax cut through, he will get education through. But other than that, he is finished as far as his legislative agenda is concerned.

EDWARDS: I think what we are going to see now is fair and open debate. Both sides get to present their issues, both sides get to present their legislative positions, and then we'll have an open debate on the floor of Senate and let the Senate and the American people decide who is right on these issues.

BLITZER: Senator Hutchison, what lesson have you learned from this for the White House, and for the Republican leadership, in the Senate in dealing with other moderates like Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island who aren't necessarily all that thrilled the way they have been treated?

HUTCHISON: You know, I think we all have to first understand that we are not going to have exactly what we want. Many of the conservatives don't think that this tax cut bill is what they wanted. Many of the moderates are not happy with it either. That is the nature of a legislative process. But I do think we can do better in communication, in listening to people, making sure that we have all the input before we make the final decisions on what the agenda is. I think we have learned something and we are going to try to be better for it.

BLITZER: Among Democrats, there are some moderate Democrats as well. Zell Miller of Georgia: He says he is not leaving the Democratic Party, but you know he's voted with the Republicans on many key issues.

EDWARDS: Wolf, it is absolutely critical that we as Democrats reach out, open our arms, and embrace all members of our party, including people like Zell Miller, and more moderate members of the party. I mean, that is a critical part of our responsibility, particularly as we take on this leadership role in the Senate.

BLITZER: When did you first realize, Senator Hutchison, you were about go into the minority in the Senate. When did that dawn on you?

HUTCHISON: Tuesday. And it was a surprise. There is no doubt about it. It was a huge leap for Senator Jeffords to make that call, and I think that he must have felt very strongly to do something like that. And now we are going to have to learn from it, do better, and go out in 2002 and talk to the people about what we are trying to do. And most importantly, listen to the people.

BLITZER: Any additional surprises, though, in line, Senator Edwards, as far as you can tell? EDWARDS: No. What I expect to happen is the remaining Republicans will stay with their caucus, the remaining Democrats will stay with their caucus, and I think we're going to -- this is going to be a very positive thing for America, Wolf, because you are going to have a free and open debate on the floor of Senate, with both sides presenting their views. I think that's a good thing in our democracy.

BLITZER: Senator Edwards, Senator Hutchison, thanks for joining us.

HUTCHISON: Thank you, Wolf.

EDWARDS: Thank you.

BLITZER: Thank you.

And up next: convoys of ambulances race to Jerusalem from all over Israel as a wedding reception hall collapses with hundreds of people inside. We'll have a live report. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. In other news tonight: rescuers in Jerusalem are desperately searching for survivors, following the collapse of a four-story wedding reception hall. Israeli police say 15 people have been killed and perhaps 250 have been injured. Hundreds of people are feared trapped in the rubble. Police say the collapse appears to be a structural failure. For more, let's go live to CNN's Sheila MacVicar. She's in Jerusalem -- Sheila.

SHEILA MACVICAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, behind me is wreckage of the wedding reception hall. If you look very closely, you can perhaps see the top story, the fourth floor, or what remains of it. Now, city officials and police here say there was a wedding party there, they think maybe 700 people, they are not entirely sure. They were dancing, when suddenly the structure collapsed.

Now, city officials, security officials, have been in the building. They have had their forensic people inside. They say that there is no question in their minds that this is a result of structural failure and nothing more, shoddy workmanship.

But below me, down below there, you can see how far down people have fallen, four floors, three floors, two floors, one, pancaking together. Working in the bottom now, they have (UNINTELLIGIBLE) rely teams, of workers, working by hand. City officials say the building is now so unsafe, they cannot bring in any kind of heavy equipment to lift out the rubble. People are digging through those cement slabs, digging through the iron tie-rods with their hands, trying to find those that are still trapped beneath.

We know that several hundred people have been taken away to hospitals. Wire services were reporting not too long ago that there were 15 they believe dead. City officials say they simply do not know how high the casualty toll will go here. But not too long ago, they have been calling for ambulances and for people to donate blood -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Sheila MacVicar in Jerusalem. Stay with CNN for updates on this tragic story.

Tonight on "The Leading Edge": a new meaning to fast food. Several McDonald's restaurants are testing new technology that allows customers to use an electronic wand instead of cash to pay for meals. A microchip inside the wand deducts the purchase from the customer's account.

And researchers are casting doubt on a long-held belief that placebo drugs help many patients. Scientists had believed patients using dummy treatments can get better if they believe they work. In new studies, Danish scientists say patients given placebos fared about the same as those given no treatment.

I'll be right back with a programming note. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Please stay with CNN throughout the night. Senator Joe Lieberman is among Larry King's guests at the top of the hour. Up next, Greta Van Susteren. She's standing by to tell us what she has -- Greta.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST, CNN'S "THE POINT": Wolf, while all eyes were on Vermont in the stunning news of the power shift in the U.S. Senate, there is also other big news. We have a new U.S. solicitor general. Ken Starr will join me to talk about that; that is a job that he used to hold. Plus, two U.S. senators talk about the big news on Capitol Hill -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thanks, Greta. We'll be watching.

Tomorrow night, I'll have a special interview with the next majority leader in the U.S. Senate, Tom Daschle. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer on Capitol Hill. "THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN" begins right now.

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