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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Jeffords' Decision to Defect From GOP Shaking Up Washington

Aired May 25, 2001 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Tonight, it's addition by subtraction on Capitol Hill. Democrats calculate their advantage, as Republicans worry about the new math. In his first television interview since James Jeffords declared independence, I'll speak with the next Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle.

Millions of Americans hit the road for the holiday weekend, with gasoline at a premium.

New horrific images of a wedding hall collapse in Jerusalem. We'll have the latest on rescue efforts.

And actor Robert Blake attends the funeral of his slain wife. Under a cloud, Blake himself delivers a eulogy.

Good evening. I'm Wolf Blitzer, reporting tonight from Washington.

The enormous impact of Vermont Senator James Jeffords' decision to leave the Republican Party is beginning to be felt through the corridors of power here in the nation's capital. There's a new balance of power, and that will affect President Bush's agenda on everything from energy to a patients' bill of rights to prescription drug benefits for seniors to national missile defense to judicial nominees.

Everyone is scrambling to understand what happens next, and that's our top story. Joining us now from Capitol Hill is our congressional correspondent Jonathan Karl, who only last Friday first broke the story of a possible Jeffords' defection from the Republican Party. Jon, tell us what happened today.

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Democrats, in the wake of that stunning announcement by Jim Jeffords are preparing for a transition of power that means more pressure and more responsibility for their leader Tom Daschle.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL (voice-over): As Tom Daschle prepares to take power, the first order of business is to provide what one adviser called a "calming reassurance" that he will work with Republicans and do more than just block the president's agenda. SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MINORITY LEADER: We obviously are not going to simply be a rubber stamp. We are going to be -- trying to put a balance to whatever it is we have to take up. But I do think that we want to show real fairness.

KARL: Daschle climbed the Democratic ranks as a soft-spoken consensus builder, acceptable to his party's frequently feuding factions. But more recently, as the leader of an embattled Democratic minority facing a Republican president, Daschle turned up the rhetoric.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, APRIL 26, 2001)

DASCHLE: One hundred days ago, people wondered what is compassionate conservatism. Now, we know. It is compassion for conservatives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CRAIG THOMAS (R), WYOMING: Senator Daschle has spent most of his time sort of obstructing what the president wanted to do. Now he is going to find himself doing a more difficult task, and that is to move something forward. It is much easier to be a problem in moving it than it is to move it.

KARL: There is a practical reason for Daschle to change his tone, not only will his be one of the narrowest Senate majorities in history, but he also must deal with a Republican House and a Republican president, making it impossible for him to get anything done without at least some Republican support.

RON KLAIN, FORMER DASCHLE AIDE: He will strike the right balance between compromising when that's the right thing do, and standing up to President Bush when that needs to be done as well.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KARL: As a majority leader, Daschle and his Democratic committee chairmen will certainly have more power to thwart the president's agenda, but Daschle will also be under pressure from his moderates, the Democratic moderates in the Senate, who, at least on occasion, want to work with that Republican president -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Jon, how is it possible that Republican leaders in the Senate and over at the White House missed this, missed this defection by Senator Jeffords?

KARL: Well, you know, it is true that Democrats tried to keep the lid on this. They have been negotiating for several weeks with Jeffords about his possible defection, and as a matter of fact, when CNN first broadcast, first reported that Jeffords was on the verge of making that decision, Tom Daschle, who said he was watching CNN at the time, said that he thought that their hopes were over, because he thought that once that was reported, once that news was out, that the White House would be taking Jeffords down to Camp David, and they would be doing an all-out push to keep him in the Republican Party. But in fact, CNN reported it, the White House apparently didn't seem to notice, and also it was talked about even on the Sunday shows in the wake of that reporting, so it is really hard to explain after that Friday, they didn't know about it. Before that Friday, it's clear that Democrats were trying to keep a lid on this.

BLITZER: And Jon, in the midst of all of this, there is news tonight on the tax front on Capitol Hill. Tell us what's happening late into the evening.

KARL: Well there sure is. CNN has learned that the negotiators, House and Senate negotiators, are almost at a deal on the tax cut, and it will include, Wolf, we are told, a $300 rebate check sent out to individual taxpayers this year, a $600 check to couples that are filing jointly. So that is the latest news. We're expecting a final deal on that some time within the next couple of hours.

BLITZER: All right. Jonathan Karl on Capitol Hill, thank you very much.

A short while ago, in his first television interview since the defection, I spoke with Senator Daschle about the move that's turning the Senate upside down.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (on camera): Senator Daschle, thanks for joining us. You know the Republicans are already saying that you are going to do, as the Democratic leader in Senate, everything you can to obstruct the remaining parts of President Bush's agenda. Can you tell us flat-out you are not going to do that?

DASCHLE: Absolutely, Wolf. That is not our intention. I called the president yesterday to say that I wanted to work directly with him, I wanted to work in a bipartisan way. I think it's important for us to reach out, try to work together. He has an agenda. We have an agenda. Together, we can make both work.

BLITZER: All right. Let's go through some specifics, and tell us if you are going to work with the president on one of his great priorities coming down the road, now that the tax cuts and education seem to be done deals for him, national missile defense.

DASCHLE: Well, we want to work with him. I don't know that it is -- and we will give him every bit of an opportunity to try to make his case. If we differ, that is going to be another matter. But we will work with him to allow him the opportunity to bring something, at least into the committee, and we'll see what happens. I happen to believe that the deployment of national missile defense is not a good idea.

BLITZER: Any chance it's going to pass?

DASCHLE: Well, I guess we'll have to see just what it is.

BLITZER: Well, we'll have to see what the whole package is. Energy, the president has got a major new energy initiative. Most of it requires congressional legislation: offshore drilling, less emphasis perhaps on conservation than you would want. Are you going to work with him on that?

DASCHLE: You know, if he uses what I would call the education model, that is the model we are using right now to pass the education bill, I have no doubt that there is real opportunity for bipartisan compromise. It has to have several components: production, alternative energy, conservation, transmission infrastructure, those kinds of things have to be included. But we can find the right balance, and I'm encouraged by what I think could be a real opportunity here.

BLITZER: But the plan that he put forward, the Dick Cheney task force recommendations, that is not going to pass, as far as you are concerned, as is?

DASCHLE: It can serve as a very good beginning, but we've got a lot of work to do before I think it will pass to our liking.

BLITZER: One of the top advisers to the president, Mary Matalin, was on my program last night, and she says that you are going to have to work with the president on a lot of these issues. I want you to listen to what Mary Matalin said last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY MATALIN, ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT BUSH: The reason Bush came to town and ran in the first place, and has often said it was not to mark time, but to get things done. And he is getting things done in record time. And if the Democrats obstruct that forward progress, it is theirs to answer for, not the president's.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So, you realize that there is going to be a shift in burden now that you are going from the minority to the majority. You are going to have to, I guess change your attitude toward some of the issues the president is putting forward.

DASCHLE: Well, I don't know if it requires changing an attitude. It certainly is a change in roles, and we are going to try to live up to our obligations and the expectations of -- regarding that role.

I think it is important for us to try to find ways to work together. He will have a greater responsibility to show that he can work with Democrats. That is the only way he is going to be able to get anything done in the Senate, is to work with us. If we work together, there is a lot we can get done.

BLITZER: If -- but if you don't deliver right now, as the majority leader in the Senate, the burden to a certain degree will be on you, that you failed to deliver what you wanted to deliver for your constituents?

DASCHLE: Well, I think it's important that everyone realizes, this is really divided government, this is a government that can either grind to a standstill or work in a bipartisan way, and move legislation along. We are going to have an agenda. We're going to try to move it through the Senate. We hope the administration will work with us, just as we will work with them in moving their parts of the agenda through.

BLITZER: How worried are you about Democrats possibly switching parties? Right now, there has been a lot of speculation, as you know, about Zell Miller in Georgia.

DASCHLE: Well, I'm not worried. I have had a number of conversations with Zell Miller and others who obviously were rumored to be considering it. Zell has made a very strong and unequivocal statement. Others have, too. So I don't think there is any question. What you see in the Democratic caucus is what you are going to get for a long time to come.

BLITZER: So, you are telling us right now you are not worried that any of the Democrats possibly could become Republicans?

DASCHLE: Correct.

BLITZER: The CNN-"TIME" magazine poll that is just out offers -- asked this question: "What do you think about switching parties after an election?" -- as Jim Jeffords has now done. Acceptable, 33 percent, unacceptable 61 percent. The majority of Americans don't like the fact that Jim Jeffords apparently made this decision.

DASCHLE: Well, I think you'll have to ask the people of Vermont, not the people of the rest of the country, and I think the people of Vermont are a little bit unusual, in the sense that they have such an overwhelming number of independents. I'm told that over 50 percent of all registered voters in Vermont are today independent. Jim Jeffords is now officially an independent. I would think that would be in keeping with the majority of his voters.

BLITZER: One of the perks of being in the majority is that you get to chair committees. Is it your understanding that it is all a done deal now, that the ranking Democrats on all the committees will just move up and become the chairmen, or is there going to be some around on some of those committees?

DASCHLE: That's a good question, and I don't think I can answer that today. I think it depends on what views people have with regard to where they want to put their priorities.

I think because this is all somewhat of a new matter for many people to consider, it may be a little while before that all shakes out.

BLITZER: There are some behind-the-scenes fighting apparently already going on. Patrick Leahy has said to CNN that he wants to be, he expects to be the next chairman of the Judiciary Committee -- he's the ranking Democrat -- though Joe Biden is now telling us through a spokesman he too is thinking about becoming the chairman. He has seniority over Patrick Leahy. Who's going to be the chairman of the Judiciary Committee?

DASCHLE: Well, Wolf, that's not a matter I have anything to say about. That's clearly a matter of seniority. Senator Biden obviously has the first choice, and if he chooses to accept that responsibility, then Senator Leahy would be chairman of Agriculture and Senator Harkin would be without a chairmanship. So it has a -- a chain reaction, and I don't know at this point whether either senator had made up their mind.

BLITZER: We only have a few seconds left, but take us behind the scenes. When did you first realize that you had a chance of grabbing Jim Jeffords?

DASCHLE: I would say a couple of months ago. We began the discussions at that point. Jim had indicated at that point that he was less than satisfied and was considering making this move, and we've had many conversations since.

BLITZER: And you were surprised the Republicans didn't get an inkling of those talks?

DASCHLE: I was surprised. I was surprised, because, obviously, given the level of his dissatisfaction, you would have thought they would have picked up on it and maybe done something more constructive with it. But it's easy to look back. It's much harder to look forward. And it's anybody's guess. I'm sure that there are many things that are second-guessed about me. So I'm not one to make that judgment.

BLITZER: Does this put you in a place to become a Democratic candidate for president in 2004?

DASCHLE: That's a long way off and it's not something I can answer today. I've got a job to do. I'm going to do it with all the energy I have, and hopefully do it successfully.

BLITZER: Thank you very much, senator, and soon to be Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle.

DASCHLE: My pleasure, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: From celebration to nightmare in an instant. Rescue efforts and arrests after the collapse of an Israeli wedding hall.

And actor Robert Blake finally speaks, at the funeral of his slain wife. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. This update now on a tragic story we first reported last night. Israeli police today detained the owners of a Jerusalem wedding hall along with contractors and engineers involved in a recent renovation. Yesterday's sudden collapse of the building left at least two dozen people dead and hundreds injured. Others are still missing.

We have this report from CNN's Ben Wedeman. It contains pictures that are very disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a moment of joy for newlyweds Keren and Assi Sror, whose families came together to celebrate a marriage. Captured on amateur video, that moment of joy was transformed in an instant into a nightmare.

(SCREAMING)

The floor of the packed hall gave way under the weight of hundreds of revelers. In the aftermath, rescue workers dug frantically for survivors as more bodies emerged from the rubble.

These rescue workers are veterans of bombings and disasters, both at home and abroad. They pitched in to find survivors of the devastating earthquakes in Turkey, Greece and India, and in Nairobi, Kenya following the bombing of the United States embassy in 1998.

Their frantic work here is made worse by the danger of falling debris.

SGT. OVADIA OVADIA, ARMY RESCUE UNIT: I think the feeling between -- among the people who were working there was one of urgency and people working at a frantic rate, you know, with always in the background the hope that somebody is still alive and a life could be rescued.

WEDEMAN: Israel's chief rabbi has ruled that those involved in the recovery effort will be exempted from observing the Jewish sabbath's ban on work.

(on camera): Officials point to substandard construction and overcrowding as two possible causes for the catastrophe.

(voice-over): Just hours after the disaster, the first funerals, sorrow on a day that should have been one of celebration.

Ben Wedeman, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Both the bride and groom survived the collapse, but did suffer injuries and are hospitalized.

Once again, the collapse of the wedding hall had nothing to do with the fighting between the Israelis and the Palestinians, though that does continues. In the West Bank, a car carrying members of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement exploded, killing one and injuring three others. Earlier, more than 40 Israelis were injured in twin suicide bombings, one at a bus station, the other at an Israeli army post. Islamic militants claimed responsibility for both attacks.

And in other news, with her killing still unsolved, Bonny Bakley was laid to rest today. At the service, actor Robert Blake spoke publicly for the first time since his wife's death. With details now, here's CNN national correspondent Frank Buckley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Robert Blake arrived at the funeral for his late wife, keeping whatever emotions he was experiencing inside. It was a small group, about 20 people, who came to bury Bonny Lee Bakley. The news media outnumbering the mourners, and provided with a Blake-approved pool camera and pool reporter to witness the event. Blake briefly speaking at the graveside service about the woman who bore their daughter, Rosie.

ROBERT BLAKE, ACTOR: It's because of Bonny that Rosie was born. It was her will, her conviction, not mine, her dedication that brought Rosie into this world. And for that, I thank God and I thank Bonny, and I stand here before God and I make this pledge: that as long as he gives me breath I'll do everything I can to make our daughter, Rosie's life the best I can.

BUCKLEY: Bonny Lee Bakley was shot to death on May 4th after Bakley and Blake dined together at a Los Angeles restaurant. While investigators have not publicly identified Blake as a suspect, his own attorneys say police are focusing on the actor. They've served search warrants on his home and interviewed Blake.

Blake's attorney, Harland Braun, has suggested, however, that Bakley had a checkered past and could have angered men who he said sent her money in the mail. That has angered members of Bakley's family.

CARY GOLDSTEIN, BAKLEY FAMILY ATTORNEY: The subliminal message meaning that she had it coming to her. This was a human being. They've attempted to dehumanize Lee Bonny.

BUCKLEY: No members of Bakley's family attended the services, which lasted only a few minutes.

(on camera): No mention was made of how Bakley died. Police investigators are still looking into that. A spokesman for the LAPD saying no one has been ruled out as a possible suspect.

Frank Buckley, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: As the holiday getaway begins, we'll tell you about a gasoline giveaway and we'll show you ways to save at the pump. Plus, once you've filled, you'll find that finding your way has gotten a lot easier with some new technology.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: As the holiday getaway begins, we'll tell you about a gasoline giveaway, and we'll show you ways to save at the pump. Plus, once you've filled up, you'll find that finding your way has gotten a lot easier with some new technology.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Tonight on "The Leading Edge" many Americans are loading up their cars and hitting the road this holiday weekend. First stop: The gas station, where the cost of filling up has many consumers fed up. CNN's Bryan Palmer takes a look at some conventional and not so conventional ways to save a buck at the pump.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN PALMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As gas prices across the country creep toward the $2 a gallon mark, and in some places right past it...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's nothing I can do, it's obviously out of my control, so I have to, you know, pay the prices.

PALMER: Businesses are coming up with creative ways to take some pressure off consumers, while also promoting themselves.

A nationally syndicated radio program teamed with filling stations to sell gas for a dollar a gallon as part of a one-day promotion. New Yorkers couldn't get enough.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gas for a dollar, you can't beat it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think they should do it everyday.

MIKE SHANNON, KISS-FM: This is just our way of giving back. It's the beginning of the busy summer travel season.

PALMER: Drivers in Atlanta lined up at the pump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are going to go with the regular.

PALMER: One hotel group will give out $5 prepaid gas cards to guests who stay two nights, and pay with a particular credit card.

LAURA BAJKOWSKI, CHOICE HOTELS: We are giving away $2 million worth of gas this summer, so that's a lot of gas.

PALMER: Some Detroit-area auto dealers gave $300 in gas cards to people who bought or leased a new Chrysler minivan. It's good for customers, they say, and good for business.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do think it does help sell cars, and we'll have to see how it goes.

PALMER: Most of these promotions won't save individual consumers much money at the pump. Getting real savings takes a little work. PETER BEUTEL, ENERGY ANALYST: Some of the easiest things that a consumer can do is change their air filter, maintain the proper air pressure in their tires.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to be looking again at smaller cars. We need to be thinking very much about car pooling. We need to think again in terms of conservation, like we were 20 years ago.

PALMER: Energy experts say such steps can help. But progress in lowering gas prices over the long haul starts at the top, with policy- makers in Washington.

Brian Palmer, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And if you're hitting the road this holiday weekend, there's better technology to get you where you are going. Global positioning systems allow you to plot your trip on your computer and download to it a handheld device. Useful for cross-country and city travel.

Up next, I'll open our mailbag. There was an extraordinary range of reaction to Senator James Jeffords' decision to leave the Republican Party. I'll share some of it with you. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Time now to open our mailbag. The power shift in the Senate generated lots of reaction. Patrick from New Port Richey, Florida, writes this, "Mark my words, Jeffords will be the next president of the United States. The guts it took for that man to stand behind his convictions, no matter what you think of his politics is what has been lacking in Washington for a very long time."

Alan from New York writes, "Senator Jeffords has given Bush a much needed wake-up call. Bush is out of step with mainstream America."

But Jean-Louis from West Palm Beach has a different view. "Senator Jeffords not only betrayed his party, but also betrayed the Republican voters who elected him into office."

Remember, I want to hear from you. Please e-mail me at wolf@cnn.com. And you can read my daily online column and sign up for my e-mail previewing our nightly programs by going to our WOLF BLITZER REPORTS Web site, cnn.com/wolf.

Please stay with CNN throughout the night. Greta Van Susteren is up next. She with a former congresswoman, talks about her 1961 abortion. Thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN" begins right now.

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