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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Government Responds to Timothy McVeigh's Request for a Stay of Execution

Aired June 04, 2001 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, Timothy McVeigh has asked for a stay of his execution, set for one week from today. But the government says there's no reason to give the Oklahoma City bomber more time. We'll go live to the federal court in Denver.

The Supreme Court overturns another death penalty, that of a Texas inmate said to have the mental capacity of a 7-year-old. We'll look at that ruling and the day's other decisions.

A court will determine the future of a rural Idaho mother, and her children, who were involved in a standoff with police. We'll get an update.

And he's a man who lives his life in the spotlight. He's gone public with his private war on cancer. I'll speak live with New York's always-outspoken mayor, Rudy Giuliani.

Good evening. I'm Wolf Blitzer, reporting tonight from Washington.

Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh is scheduled to be executed one week from today. He and his lawyers are aggressively fighting that death sentence. Among other things, they're citing the 4,500 pages of documents the FBI failed to provide McVeigh's attorneys before the trial.

But today, the prosecutors filed papers in court insisting nothing in those documents could change McVeigh's guilty verdict, and that's our top story.

CNN's Susan Candiotti is standing by outside the federal courthouse in Denver.

Susan, the government today made its case. What was its main argument?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, with Timothy McVeigh just two days away from a legal battle royale to try to save his life, the Justice Department is making these key points. No. 1, they're challenging jurisdiction. They're saying that if the defense wanted to file this case, it rightfully belonged before the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals, and the reason the government suggested that the defense didn't do that is because it says it knows that it would lose, because they say that the defense itself admits that it lacks clear and convincing evidence that would change McVeigh's conviction.

Also in view of the massive document turnover, they also say that McVeigh is, quote, "undeniably guilty," and in the Justice Department's words, quote, "There is no case in which the death sentence could be more appropriate."

Now, in view of the fact that the government has belatedly turned over more than 4,400 pages of documents, the Justice Department brings out that only slightly more than 20 pages are being cited as being in any way helpful to the defense. Also, they argue the following: that the argument that the defense could make that a jury would somehow be swayed by defense suggestions that other people might have been involved doesn't hold water, because, they say, McVeigh has made recent admissions that he acted largely alone. And finally, the government shoots down a claim by the defense that the government has committed fraud by withholding evidence from the defense. The government says it did not and the government says that the defense is wrongfully citing a 1944 civil case that has nothing do with this case, the government says, because in that civil matter the allegation was that evidence was manufactured. And the Justice Department says, we have not manufactured anything in this case, we have turned over everything to the defense.

Back to you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Susan Candiotti in Denver, thank you very much.

And while Timothy McVeigh has cited the mishandled FBI evidence as a reason to stay his execution, accomplice Terry Nichols argues that the withholding of files supports his request for a new trial.

The Supreme Court today ordered the federal government to respond to that assertion within 30 days, raising the possibility that the justices could reopen the case. Nichols is serving a life term for involuntary manslaughter and conspiracy in the Oklahoma City bombing.

If McVeigh does win a delay, the next federal prisoner facing execution is Juan Raul Garza, who's scheduled to die June 19th. A civil rights coalition is asking President Bush to halt all federal executions until a study can determine the degree to which racial and ethnic bias may play a role in the sentencing promised.

The coalition points out that minorities make out the majority of federal death-row inmates.

Juan Raul Garza is Hispanic. His story is coming up at the bottom of the hour on "THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN."

The Supreme Court is again ordering Texas to reconsider the death penalty given to a murderer who's mentally retarded.

CNN senior Washington correspondent Charles Bierbauer reports that while the case hinged on jury instructions, it raises broader constitutional concerns about cruel and unusual punishment.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JOHNNY PENRY, CONVICTED MURDERER: I don't think that they'll -- that execute me is going to solve anything.

CHARLES BIERBAUER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Johnny Penry once came within three hours of execution for the 1979 rape and murder of Pamela Carpenter. The Supreme Court has lifted his death penalty, at least for now.

The court criticized the way juries in Texas were told to consider Penry's low IQ and abuse by his mother as mitigating circumstances. Texas law asked the jury three questions: Was the murder deliberate, an unreasonable response to provocation? Was Penry still a threat to society?

Jurors were told to answer no to at least one question if they wanted to use the mitigating circumstances to give Penry a life sentence.

ELLEN MOSELEY-MAY, VICTIM'S NIECE: He stated that I knew if I went over there, I'd have to kill her, because I didn't want to get caught.

BIERBAUER: Justice O'Connor, writing for the 6-3 majority, said the instructions "made the jury charge contradictory and placed law- abiding jurors in an impossible situation, because the jury could change one or more truthful yes answers to an untruthful no answer in order to avoid the death sentence for Penry."

It's the second time the Supreme Court has spared Penry. In 1989 it granted a new trial, but said it could not then consider executing the mentally retarded as a cruel and unusual punishment, violating the Eighth Amendment to the Constitution.

The justices will consider that this fall in the case of North Carolina death row Ernest McCarver, perhaps to Penry's benefit.

ROBERT SMITH, ATTORNEY FOR JOHNNY PENRY: If it is ready to decide that the execution of the mentally retarded is always unconstitutional, then I think that that should save my client's life.

BIERBAUER: A new sentencing in Texas could do the same.

PENRY: And I beg (UNINTELLIGIBLE) mercy that -- that they will put me in a mental institution for the rest of my life.

BIERBAUER (on camera): Penry's fate could also be changed by a Texas bill banning the execution of the mentally retarded as a cruel and unusual punishment. The state legislature has passed it, but Governor Perry has not yet decided whether to sign it into law.

Charles Bierbauer, CNN, the Supreme Court.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: The court today also ruled unanimously that victims of workplace discrimination may collect unlimited cash awards to make up for what they would have earned if they had been treated fairly and remained on the job. That's a victory for a woman who faced sexual harassment at a DuPont plant in Tennessee. Lower courts said her compensation was limited by law to $300,000 instead of the $800,000 she had sought.

In other news tonight, CNN has learned that at least two maverick Republicans are expected to meet with the president this week. Tomorrow, Senator Jim Jeffords will go to the White House as part of a bipartisan group discussing pending education bills. That's just one day before Jeffords officially leaves the Republican Party.

And also this week, Republican Senator John McCain is expected to attend a private dinner with the president at the White House.

Another maverick Republican has a reputation as a battler. I'll discuss his battle with cancer and politics in a rare national interview with New York's mayor, Rudy Giuliani. And gun battles in Gaza amid promises of a cease-fire. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

More than 700 communities yesterday marked National Cancer Survivor's Day, the head of one of the world's largest communities was diagnosed with prostate cancer last year, and is fighting it with the same combative style he brought to his jobs as a federal prosecutor and as mayor of New York City.

Joining me now from New York, is the mayor, Rudy Giuliani. Mr. Mayor, thanks for joining us. I want to get right to the issue of prostate cancer, that is why I invited you on this program. How are you doing first of all right now in this battle against prostate cancer?

MAYOR RUDY GIULIANI (R), NEW YORK: I'm doing all right. I have gone through a year of treatment. And my case, I did hormone therapy, seed implantation, and, external radiation. And I'm doing fine. I mean, the most difficult thing in dealing with any form of cancer is, you know, just coming to the awareness that you have it, and then figuring out the right kind of treatment, and then keeping an optimistic attitude.

But it takes a little while. I just spoke to someone today who was just diagnosed with prostate cancer and gave them sort of a benefit of my experience with it, like so many people did with me.

BLITZER: You know, this year, they estimate 198,000 men are going to be diagnosed with prostate cancer, of course those words are very fearful -- I'm sure they were to you -- very fearful to all these other men who are going to be diagnosed with that form of cancer this year. When you have to make that decision, surgery versus radiation, what are the pros and cons? Very briefly, why did you pick radiation?

GIULIANI: I picked radiation, because I thought all three forms of therapy: the hormone therapy, the seed implantation, which actually, a lot of people don't understand -- is a form of internal radiation, you put -- seeds are put inside your prostate and it essentially burns out the cancer, and burns out the inside of the prostate, and then I did external radiation from the outside. It seemed to me that in my case, it gave me best possible chance.

But, you know I talked to a lot of people who are diagnosed with prostate cancer. And, just talked to man today who I think is going to opt for surgery. So there are a lot of options and you have to go through them, you've got to go through them with your doctor, and you have to realize that with the PSA test which everybody should take certainly by the age of 50, I think by 45 years old, so you get a baseline, you are going to find out about prostate cancer earlier.

So,although it's frightening, scary, and everything else, the benefit is, you wouldn't have found out about this 10, 15, 20 years ago, until it was too late. I think a lot of the same things can be said about breast cancer, and other forms of cancer. Early detection really can save a lot of lives.

BLITZER: And in the tests that you have had, I'm sure you have had some tests since the radiation, treatment, the therapy, that you have undergone, what -- I assume the results have been OK so far, right?

GIULIANI: So far, they are very good, and you know, you tend to pay more attention to those things now than you did before. And you keep urging people, take the PSA test, take the PSA test, take the other relevant tests for breast cancer, other forms of cancer.

If you find out about it early, you've got much better chance of surviving completely and overcoming it.

BLITZER: And, so far, right now, everything is pretty clean.

GIULIANI: So far, everything is clean. I'm feeling pretty good. I'm still -- you still deal with some of the after effects of the hormone therapy and the radiation. That takes a little while to get out of your body completely but, given all the possible things that could have happened, I'm a very, very lucky and very fortunate man.

BLITZER: Yesterday, I interviewed Michael Milken, who himself is a prostate cancer survivor -- he had the radiation therapy in 1993. He is very outspoken, very active in the research effort, raising money for prostate cancer. I want you to listen to what he said, about some of the options out there, beyond surgery and radiation, what else has to be done.

Listen to Michael Milken.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL MILKEN, CANCER ACTIVIST: There are some men with very low-grade prostate cancer, confined, who are just undergoing nutrition and stress therapy today with some very interesting results.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: Let's talk about those two alternative methods: nutrition, first of all. I take it, you have had a change in your diet, since you have come up with the prostate cancer.

GIULIANI: Michael Milken has been very, very helpful in personally assisting me, as well as, you know, thousands of other men, in trying to figure out how to focus your diet. Essentially, what you are talking about is a low-fat diet, something in which you try to introduce soy into your diet.

It is largely the same thing as you would do for cardiovascular problems with just a little bit more emphasis on soy and other things that are, you know, that really are recommended if you are dealing with prostate cancer.

And then, trying to reduce the amount of stress that you undergo, that's something Mike talks about quite a bit, which, as mayor of New York City, sometimes I can't quite accomplish the way I think you probably should. But both of those things are very important. A diet -- a nutritional plan, and trying to organize your life so that you take some of the unnecessary stress off.

BLITZER: And on that issue of stress, I want to get back to that, but we have to take a quick break, Mr. Mayor, we are going to return and continue this conversation with Rudy Giuliani. We are also going to talk about politics, what he thinks about tomorrow's big switch in the U.S. Senate. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

We are continuing our conversation with New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani.

Mr. Mayor, as we all know, you have been under enormous amount of stress, lately, and you are trying to reduce that stress level. Michael Milken saying you must reduce it.

How are you coping with all of this public stress that you have been under?

GIULIANI: As best you can. You do the best you can. I mean, you can't -- you can't control every element of your life, and, I would urge people who have to deal with prostate cancer, breast cancer, and other forms of cancer, in addition to diet, to try to put themselves in maybe a less stressful situation than I'm in, but I can't control all the events that surround me. And I, you know, I try to do the best that I can in spite of it.

BLITZER: There's an enormous amount of news media, obvious, coverage of all this that must contribute to the stress that you're under. How do you -- how do you think the news media is treating you right now?

GIULIANI: Well, you're always the worst judge of how the news media treats you, and I mean, the reality is that's also something that I can't control. So I sort of -- I sort of just do the best that I can as mayor of New York City, and I think I do my public responsibilities as well as I possibly can, and I think the city is in great shape. So I think from the point of view of the public, things are moving along really well.

So as far as my personal life is concerned and all of the stress that that causes and the problems that that caused, that's for me to deal with personally. And I would hope that the media would focus on the public aspects of it. I think that's what most of the public really cares about, not -- you know, not what's going on in my personal life. I think people, you know, deal with their own personal lives, and a lot of the emphasis and the focus on the personal lives of public people is really just a form of voyeurism.

So I try to -- try to segment it as best I can.

BLITZER: But you can understand why there is all this media interest and -- and speculation about everything that's going on there?

GIULIANI: I've been the mayor for -- for 7 1/2 years. I've been in public life, gosh, I don't know how long. But I mean, the reality is that you just get used to it after a while. And if you don't, then, you know, then that's not the place for you, which is what I advise people who are thinking about running for public office.

You've got to be able -- you have to be able to deal with the heat that goes with being in public office.

BLITZER: And one of the reputations you have, of course, is a maverick Republican. Jim Jeffords, another maverick Republican, is leaving the Republican Party to become an independent. Can you understand why he thinks he doesn't really have a place as a moderate Republican within the GOP?

GIULIANI: No. I'm a moderate Republican, and yeah, I'm a maverick in the sense that I -- I feel I have to be independent enough to fight for my constituents and say the things that I believe are important for the people of New York City. But I found a home and a comfortable one in the Republican Party as a moderate.

I'm pro-choice. I think I'm moderate to liberal on a lot of social issues, you know, within the context of the Republican Party. But I'm a fiscal conservative. I'm very, very strong supporter of the president's tax cut, because I know how much money it's going to bring to the people of the city of New York. The tax cut is going to benefit the people of my city.

And I agree very, very much on the approach of the Republican Party to foreign policy and giving more freedom to people. I think choice is the answer to American education. I think the Republican Party is the vehicle for really bringing choice to parents all over America, to reform our public education system.

So sure, all of us Republicans don't agree, but when we were arguing for the big tent within the Republican Party, we were arguing for, you know, room for moderates like me and Governor Pataki, and so many of us. And there is room for us. Christie Whitman. I mean, there's plenty of room for moderates in the Republican Party.

BLITZER: There's another moderate Republican named John McCain, someone you're close to, someone you supported, but a lot of his closest friends say he's been dissed, if you will, by the president, the Republican leadership, Trent Lott. Do you understand why he's angry?

GIULIANI: Actually, I'm a very good friend of John McCain's, and he is truly a hero of mine, someone I really have a tremendous amount of personal affection for. But I supported George W. Bush, and I think that President Bush is doing an excellent job. And I think President Bush has made room for moderates in the Republican Party.

Just go back to the Republican convention of almost a year ago now, there was a tremendous amount of reaching out that was done to minorities, to others, to groups that may have felt the Republican Party wasn't including them in the past. And if you look at the way he's put his Cabinet together and the way he's reached out, I think President Bush has gone a long way to making room for moderates. More than that, to making us a very, very important part of the Republican Party.

And you know, Senator Jeffords, John, others, we all have different issues on which we agree and disagree, but there's plenty of room for us within the Republican Party, and I think that's a lot better for the country. And I truly believe that's the way John feels, because I've talked to him many, many times about it, that, you know, ultimately, the Republican Party has more of the answers to where America is, you know, in the beginning of the 21st century than the Democratic Party.

BLITZER: On that note, Mr. Mayor, I want to thank you for joining us. Good luck in your battle against prostate cancer.

GIULIANI: And thank you for focusing on it. It's going to be enormously helpful to people, not just with prostate cancer, but all forms of cancer, men and women. And thank you for putting so much focus on it. It's very helpful.

BLITZER: Thank very much, Mr. Mayor.

And in other news tonight, top members of the Bush administration are considering their next move to keeping peace talks alive in the Middle East. Officials held talks in Washington today as a firefight in Gaza threatened a fragile cease-fire. At least 18 Palestinians were injured. It was the first major incident since Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat called a truce on Saturday.

The mother at the center of a delicate child standoff in Idaho is refusing to go free. JoAnn McGuckin was released from jail today, but has refused to leave until the charges against her are dropped. McGuckin was arrested last week on charges of child endangerment. A hearing is set for tomorrow to determine whether her children, now in protective custody, will be returned to here -- to her.

More trouble for Ford. The nation's top-selling pick-up truck, the Ford F-150, was given a poor rating in a new high-speed crash test. The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety says its performance was, in its words, "as bad as it gets." The Dodge Ram also fared poorly. The Toyota Tundra, tested as best, earned a good rating.

In Nepal, angry demonstrators clashed with police today, demanding an explanation into the killing of the royal family. Several royals, including the king and queen, were killed Friday by the crown prince before he turned a gun on himself. But the government now describes the shootings as accidental. Many people believe the massacre may have been part of a conspiracy.

Today, the king's brother today was crowned as the new king.

Bringing order to crowded air corridors air corridors. Air traffic control from space, on "The Leading Edge," next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Tonight on "The Leading Edge," the airline industry is shifting toward a high-tech satellite-based system to reduce airline delays. The FAA is set to unveil its new plan tomorrow. It relies heavily on global positioning satellites that will enable pilots to see other planes in the air and on the ground.

NASA is trying to figure out what went wrong during its test of a revolutionary aircraft this weekend. A rocket booster carrying the X- 43 veered off course over the Pacific Ocean, forcing officials to destroy it. Once launched, the aircraft, which runs off oxygen, was supposed to shatter speed records.

That's all the time we have tonight. Thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN" begins right now.

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