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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Judge Refuses to Stay McVeigh Execution; Democrats Take Control of the Senate

Aired June 06, 2001 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Tonight, request denied. The judge in the Oklahoma City bombing case refuses to stay the execution of Timothy McVeigh. With McVeigh due to die on Monday, his lawyers will appeal.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are extremely disappointed in the court's ruling today.

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BLITZER: But Attorney General John Ashcroft says justice has been served.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's an appropriate ruling for which I am grateful.

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BLITZER: We'll go live to the federal court in Denver. We'll also get reaction from Oklahoma City.

And I'll speak live with former McVeigh prosecutor Patrick Ryan, and Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz.

It may have looked like business as usual, but the U.S. Senate reopened today with new leaders and a new agenda. We'll go live to Capitol Hill.

And on this anniversary of D-Day, President Bush pays tribute to a small town which paid a heavy price for freedom.

Good evening. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting tonight from Washington.

A federal judge today refused to delay Timothy McVeigh's execution, scheduled for Monday morning. Attorney General John Ashcroft praised the decision. But with the clock ticking, McVeigh's disappointed attorneys are planning their appeal to a higher court. The legal battle lines have been drawn, and that's our top story. CNN correspondent Susan Candiotti is covering the story. She's outside the federal appeals court in Denver and she joins us now live. Susan?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Wolf, this is the very building where the execution stay was denied, and at this hour, Timothy McVeigh, the worst mass murderer in American history, has only four and a half days to live.

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CANDIOTTI (voice-over): The defense wanted more time to look into whether others may have helped Tim McVeigh bomb the Oklahoma City federal building. But trial judge Richard Matsch ruled: "it will not change the fact that Timothy McVeigh was the instrument of death and destruction."

CANDIOTTI: He refused to delay his execution.

SEAN CONNELLY, PROSECUTOR: Judge Matsch's ruling was a powerful and eloquent statement, not only about the law associated with this case, but about the tremendous harm and devastation caused by Timothy McVeigh.

Judge Matsch found, for anybody who sat through the evidence and heard the evidence at trial, there can be no doubt that Timothy McVeigh exploded a Ryder truck bomb outside the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building on April 19th, 1995, killing 168 men, women and children, and maiming and injuring scores more.

CANDIOTTI: Defense lawyers made no claim of innocence. Instead, they said the FBI mix-up in turning over all its documents was a fraud on the court. Not so, said the judge, there was no scheme, no improper intent. He said others could and should deal with the FBI for those mistakes.

ROBERT NIGH, MCVEIGH ATTORNEY: Of course, we are extremely disappointed in the court's ruling today. We will file on Mr. McVeigh's behalf an appeal to the United States Court of Appeals for the 10th Circuit and it is to that issue that we must turn our immediate attention.

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CANDIOTTI: McVeigh now well aware that he is once again in a countdown toward death, has given the go-ahead for more appeals. If he loses, he faces execution on Monday, an execution he has previously called state-assisted suicide -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Susan, as you know, the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals almost always sides with Judge Match. He is highly respected. Is it likely this time they will support his decision?

CANDIOTTI: There is no indication, one way or another, of course, how the 10th Circuit Court will rule, but we can tell you this. Judge Matsch after all was handpicked by this very same court to try the Oklahoma City bombing case, and as you indicated, he has not been reversed yet.

BLITZER: Susan Candiotti in Denver, thank you very much.

Originally scheduled for May 16th, McVeigh's execution was postponed by Attorney General John Ashcroft when the FBI revealed it had mishandled 4500 pages of documents. Ashcroft today welcomed Judge Matsch's decision.

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JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Today, I believe the ruling of the court in Denver, Colorado, makes unmistakably clear we not only have a guilty defendant, but that the fairness and the innocence of the system is sufficient and is complete, and that it merits the trust and the confidence of the American people.

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BLITZER: Ashcroft is praising bombing survivors and relatives of victims for what he calls their patience, endurance and understanding. To find out how they are reacting to the day's developments, let's go live to Oklahoma City and CNN national correspondent Gary Tuchman.

What's the reaction there, Gary?

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, utter surprise. That is the prevailing emotion among the family members of the victims and the survivors who we talked with today outside the Oklahoma City Bombing Memorial. They fully expected Judge Richard Matsch to issue a stay. Listen to what these two family members had to say. One of these men lost his daughter, the other lost his wife.

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PAUL HOWELL, FATHER OF BOMBING VICTIM: I know that he is very, very thorough about everything that he does, so, you know, when he made his comment today, of no stay of execution, it kind of shocked me, because, number one, I didn't figure it would come for another couple of days, and, knowing that he is about as fair as he could possibly be, I figured maybe he would give us another stay, so I was pretty shocked.

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LYLE COUSINS, LOST WIFE IN BOMBING: Relief, I guess, more than anything. Knowing that events in my life can't be manipulated by him because of all the sudden at a time that I don't want to think about the bombing, or, you know, what we have been through, all of a sudden deal have to deal with a new story about Tim McVeigh or something he's done or said.

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TUCHMAN: Paul Howell, that first man you heard is one of the 10 Oklahomans picked to watch the execution in person in Terre Haute. Another 300 or so will be watching it on closed-circuit television in Oklahoma City, including Priscilla Salyers, one of the survivors, who was seriously wounded in the explosion.

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PRISCILLA SALYERS, BOMBING SURVIVOR: I'm in sorrow and there's a little bit depression, because it is going to take me back to memories of my friends that died. There were two in the office with me. And they died that morning. And I will be revisiting those memories. I'm not looking forward to the execution, but I'm looking forward to getting behind us.

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TUCHMAN: Oklahomans have been through a lot in the last six years and two months. Now they are preparing in earnest for an execution which could happen 4 1/2 days from now.

Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: Thank you very much.

In other news, here on Capitol Hill, you can't tell the players without a scorecard. Lots of changes in the line-up, as Democrats took control of the Senate today. Joining me now, CNN Congressional correspondent Jonathan Karl -- Jon.

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it's the first time in U.S. history the control of the U.S. Senate has changed for any reason other than an election, but it started with an old- fashioned display of Senate collegiality.

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KARL (voice-over): A shift of power without precedent in U.S. history.

SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: This indeed is a humbling moment for me. I'm honored to serve as majority leader, but I also recognize that the majority is slim.

KARL: At Daschle's first press conference as majority leader, he promised to reach out to Republicans, but also took pride in the title, partisan Democrat.

DASCHLE: I think being a partisan Democrat is what most people would expect you to be in the best sense of the word and that I have an agenda, a philosophy, that I hope I can articulate reasonably, effectively.

KARL: Republican Leader Trent Lott went into his new role as minority leader, warning Daschle that leading a Senate majority is a heavy burden, comparable he said to the weight of the world on Atlas's shoulders.

SEN. TRENT LOTT (R-MS), MINORITY LEADER: This job will be tough. We're all going to try and make it bearable and easier for you. And of course I'm hoping someday the weight will come back where it was fated to be.

KARL: Jim Jeffords, the man who single-handedly put the Democrats in power, has been eagerly embraced with his new Democratic colleagues, but he was not on hand as Daschle was first recognized as majority. And on the very first vote under Democratic control, Jeffords showed he can be a thorn in the side of Democrats just as he frequently was of Republicans.

Mr. Jeffords was the only senator on the Democratic side to vote against an education amendment offered by Paul Wellstone on student testing.

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KARL: Also today, West Virginia's Robert Byrd returned to the Senate ceremonial top post, president pro tem, a position he held last time Democrats were in control of the Senate, and also a position that puts him third in line for the presidency, behind only the vice president and the speaker of the House.

Wolf, that job of course had been held by Strom Thurmond.

BLITZER: Jon, isn't it your sense now there will be all-out war between the partisans on both sides? Or will the moderates on both sides prevail?

KARL: You heard actually Trent Lott talk about war, and also, you have heard other conservatives say the moderates hand are actually weakened now, because there's one less moderate in the Republican Party and the Republicans don't need to keep together that fragile majority coalition. But today, all the talk of war was put aside, and in fact, there is a real feeling from the Democratic side that they now have responsibility that comes with power, and Democrats at least for sometime will be toning down some partisan rhetoric. So maybe a little calm before the storm.

BLITZER: OK, Jonathan Karl on Capitol Hill, thank you very much.

Up next, with time running out for Timothy McVeigh, I'll discuss today's ruling with his former prosecutor, Patrick Ryan, and with Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz.

Also, a small Virginia town which paid dearly in defense of liberty, 57 years ago today. D-Day remembered.

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BLITZER: Welcome back.

While saying he was shocked by the government's failure to turn over all FBI documents during the Oklahoma City bombing trial, U.S. District Judge Richard Matsch today refused to stay the execution of Timothy McVeigh. McVeigh's lawyers will appeal, but the government says justice has been done.

Joining me now from Oklahoma City, Patrick Ryan -- he prosecuted McVeigh -- and from New York, Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz.

Alan Dershowitz, I take it you were surprised by Judge Matsch's decision.

ALAN DERSHOWITZ, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: I was surprised. I mean, I've followed capital cases for many years, and in the usual course of events, a case like this, a stay would be granted, because after all McVeigh withdrew his appeal from his habeas corpus and he did it without having available full information. And in the normal course of events, a judge would allow that appeal to go forward, would allow the usual routine appeals and certiorari to go forward.

It's very rare that a person is executed as quickly as this after a conviction. It may sound like a long time to a lot of people, but routinely, executions take longer than this, and routinely, a full opportunity to present appeals is presented. So I was surprised.

But this is an appeal -- this is a -- this is a decision by Judge Matsch that will be influential, because he's a very respected trial court judge.

BLITZER: Patrick Ryan, were you surprised as well by his decision?

PATRICK RYAN, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: I don't think I would have been surprised had he granted a short stay and given the defense some additional time. But I'm certainly not surprised that he's proceeding on with the execution.

BLITZER: What's wrong, Patrick Ryan, what's wrong with giving the defense attorneys another 30 days or even 60 days just to close up perhaps any loose end that might be available, given the finality of the death sentence?

RYAN: Well, I don't think there would have been anything wrong with it, but I think Judge Matsch felt that it was not necessary. After all, it's been four years since his conviction. He's had these additional documents for 30 days now. His counsel -- and he has several of them -- have had ample opportunity to review them.

As I understand it, they admitted in open court to Judge Matsch today that this -- these documents did not provide Timothy McVeigh a defense as the bomber of the Oklahoma City Murrah Building.

DERSHOWITZ: There's one...

BLITZER: Alan...

DERSHOWITZ: Go ahead.

BLITZER: Yeah, Alan Dershowitz, I want to bring you back in, but the fact of the matter is Judge Matsch said he personally reviewed those documents, and he didn't see anything in there that warrants reopening this or even delaying the execution.

DERSHOWITZ: What he didn't see of course is the evidence that would support his conclusion, a conclusion he stated: That is, that the withholding of the information was not willful, that it was merely negligent.

Remember that the United States Supreme Court has given the government 30 days from a few days ago in the Nichols case to provide some additional information. I doubt that the United States Supreme Court will allow the execution to go forward while it is waiting to hear from the government on a closely related case.

Look, this is not about sympathy for McVeigh. McVeigh deserves nothing. He deserves to die a slow, painful death. But the issue is process. The issue is whether we will regret, ultimately, that we may have acted too quickly and there may be evidence that will come to light after the execution that we wish his defense team would have had a chance to review before the execution.

BLITZER: Patrick Ryan, there are some who say that if he is executed Monday morning, as he's scheduled to be executed, he will have served some purpose for his own lunatic "winge" out -- fringe out there that wants to make him a martyr. I want you to listen to what "The Los Angeles Times" wrote in an editorial this week. It said this: "The lunatic fringe is eager to make McVeigh a martyr. The government, by assuring that the terrorist receives every one of his constitutional rights, will help to undermine the repulsive notion that McVeigh is something more than a mass murderer."

So if the Supreme Court or the U.S. Court of Appeals should cite some technicality, wouldn't that in the end probably be better for the whole purposes of this case?

RYAN: Well, I think you need to put this in perspective. I mean, Timothy McVeigh was given a $15 million defense. He had 17 lawyers provided by the taxpayers of this country. This man has received a fair trial, and Richard Matsch knows better than anyone the scope of the documents that have been turned over to the defense prior to these additional documents, and he can put them in the perspective that they should be in. And when you look at the perspective, there is nothing in these documents that in any way indicates that Timothy McVeigh did not build, did not deliver, and did not blow up the Murrah Building and kill 168 people.

He's had a fair trial.

DERSHOWITZ: But remember that a prosecutor has already acknowledged that had he had this information available, he would have not tried to discredit -- because he's an ethical prosecutor -- would not have tried to discredit a witness in the case, So the evidence that was withheld may have had some impact. It's subtle and it's very hard to discern in retrospect, but I think everybody would be better off if we simply allowed the process to run through. I'm not talking about years and years. I'm talking about a sense of satisfaction and closure that everyone of McVeigh's rights has been satisfied before he's finally executed.

BLITZER: Patrick Ryan, what's your sense what will happen in the Court of Appeals and eventually if it gets to the Supreme Court?

RYAN: Well, I would be very surprised if the 10th Circuit in any way affected the judgment of Judge Matsch. The 10th Circuit appointed Judge Matsch to this case. They have generally been supportive of his opinions, because he has taken every step to provide a fair trial to Timothy McVeigh.

I don't think anyone, including professor Dershowitz, would in any way suggest that Timothy McVeigh did not receive a fair trial at the hands of Judge Matsch. I don't think...

DERSHOWITZ: Oh, I would suggest that. No, I would suggest that. I'll tell you why I would suggest that. I think...

BLITZER: Very briefly.

DERSHOWITZ: I think his trial counsel was ineffective, and I think that's a very significant issue, perhaps an issue that will never be raised. But I do not think that he had a fair trial, because I think he was ineffectively represented.

BLITZER: Alan Dershowitz, Patrick Ryan, unfortunately, we are all out of time. I'm sure this debate will continue. Thank you very much for sharing your expertise with us.

RYAN: Pleased to be here.

BLITZER: And up next -- thank you. Up next, a lifelong smoker, an incurable cancer. A jury deals a giant blow to a tobacco giant. And a small town paid a terrible price for helping to protect our freedom: D-Day remembered.

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BLITZER: Welcome back. In other news tonight, another big setback for big tobacco. In California a jury today ordered Philip Morris to pay more than $3 billion to a lifelong smoker who blamed the cigarette giant for his incurable lung cancer. Jurors found Philip Morris guilty on all six counts including fraud and negligence. Attorneys for the cigarette maker say they will appeal.

After much consideration, the Bush Administration is planning to resume security talks with North Korea. President Bush today ordered his security team to take up low-level talks with the communist nation on a number of issues, including its nuclear activities and missile programs. If North Korea is receptive to opening talks, Mr. Bush said the U.S. would consider easing sanctions.

Today is the 57th anniversary of D-day, history's largest amphibious assault that led to the liberation of Europe during World War II. In commemoration, a national memorial was dedicated today in a Virginia town that suffered the highest per capita American death toll. CNN's Bruce Morton was there.

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BRUCE MORTON, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Bedford, Virginia after years and tears, a dedication. The president of the United States laid a wreath and spoke about what the world gained and lost on D-Day.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Free societies in Europe can be traced to the first footprints on the first beach on June 6, 1944. What was lost on D-day we can never measure. And never forget.

JOHN MARSH, FORMER SECRETARY OF THE ARMY: Memories are best kept by those who loved the greatest and by those who lost the most.

MORTON: That resonated in Bedford, where 35 soldiers in Able Company in the 116th infantry regiment hit Omaha Beach. And 21 of the 35 died. But this was a day for celebrating memories, for honoring heroes, not for grief. And the old men who were on the beaches that day were proud.

JOHN SURNIAK, D-DAY VETERAN: I would like to see all these young people come and see the place so they would realize what we went through.

WILLIE HARRIS, D-DAY VETERAN: Well, I think that it's a little late but it's one of the grandest things that happened in the future Army of the United States.

PRESTON FITZBERGER, D-DAY VETERAN: I have been looking forward to see this completed. And it's a great pleasure, privilege to come here and see it.

MORTON: They had a good crowd and a good mix. The old men remembering, the young learning, about a war and a world they may have known little about. At the end, the Navy band played Aaron Copeland's "Fanfare for the Common Man" and the crowd applauded these very uncommon men.

BUSH: Whatever it is about America that has given us such citizens, it is the greatest quality we have and may it never leave us.

MORTON: Bruce Morton, CNN, Bedford, Virginia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And up next, a safer way to fix heart problems. Ahead on "The Leading Edge," details of a new surgical technique designed to reduce the risk for heart patients.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Tonight on "The Leading Edge," physicians are praising a newly approved surgical technique that could greatly reduce the risk of stroke in heart patients. The system relies on metal connectors instead of stitches to join blood vessels. Using stitches often requires stopping the heart or using clamps.

Imagine the international space station as a high-tech industrial laboratory. Top space officials from around the world are trying to stir interest among industrialists to use the station for experiments. Among the ideas, developing a more durable type of steel and producing a more accurate atomic clock.

Please stay with CNN throughout the night. Judy Lewis is Larry King's guest at the top of the hour. She says she's Clark Gable's daughter. Up next, Greta Van Susteren. She's standing by to tell us what she has -- Greta.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST, CNN'S "THE POINT": Wolf, former governor Ann Richards joins us to talk about politics and now the White House, Governor Bush, now President Bush. Plus, A woman who lost two grand children in the Oklahoma City bombing says she's disappointed there'll be no stay. She'll tell us why -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thanks, Greta, sounds good. Tomorrow night, we'll have the latest on the countdown to Timothy McVeigh's execution. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN" begins right now.

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