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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Poll Shows Drop in Support for President Bush; Vice President Cheney Returns to Work; Bush Administration Calls for Spending Restraint

Aired July 02, 2001 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight: Uncertain times at the White House? Our new poll shows an erosion of the president's popularity as the White House admits to an erosion of the budget surplus.

Fitted with a defibrillator, the vice president is back at work.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We were thinking about doing some jumping jacks before you came in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: But is the country worried about Dick Cheney's health?

Washington police say the search for missing intern Chandra Levy is still a missing-persons investigation, so why are they starting to search local landfills?

And on the heels of the Andrea Yates case, it's apparently happened again: What makes a parent kill a child? I'll ask criminal defense attorney Robert Shapiro and forensic psychiatrist Saul Faerstein.

Good evening. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting tonight from Washington.

As promised, Vice President Dick Cheney came back to work bright and early this morning, despite his weekend heart procedure. He found a double dose of potential headaches: new poll numbers showing President Bush's job approval ratings continue to drop, and new budget projections showing the earlier, rosy budget surplus numbers might not materialize -- and that's our top story.

Most Americans still feel George W. Bush is doing a good job, but the latest CNN-"USA Today"-Gallup poll shows his approval rating has slipped to a new low. Fifty-two percent of those questioned now approve of the way Mr. Bush is handling his job while 34 percent disapprove. The president's approval rating has been in a steady slide for months, down from 63 percent in March. It's safe to say the administration is concerned. For more, let's go live to CNN senior White House correspondent John King. John, how concerned are they over there?

JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're concerned, Wolf, but they're also rushing to try to put this in a perspective, citing poll numbers from the Bill Clinton or the Ronald Reagan presidency, where each of those men was also at a low like this, in the low 50s, low to mid-50s. Both, of course, coasted to easy reelection after their first terms.

But the White House understanding it has a little bit of a problem on its hand. The big question here: what is the next issue for president? He did pretty well selling the tax cut. He's been caught off guard, the Democrats took control of the Senate, they made the Patients' Bill of Rights their priority. Here at the White House, the strategy that aides focusing on: What do we want to focus on late summer into the fall?

No consensus just yet. One issue they may try to get around and ahead of the Democrats on, prescription drug benefits for seniors.

BLITZER: John, one of the other concerns that the White House has are the drop in the projected budget surplus numbers. We're now hearing that the earlier projected number of $275 billion for the current fiscal year could go down to $200 billion. That could be significant. Are they worried about that?

KING: Could indeed be significant, the Democrats taking advantage of the timing of these new numbers, saying: "Isn't it funny -- the projected surplus goes down just as those tax rebate checks begin to go out in the mail." The Democrats saying this has something to do with a tax cut they say is too big.

The White House says that's not the case. This is simply the fact that the economy slowed down so tax revenues slowed down. But the administration, now in a fight with the Democrats over where will that money come from. Will the administration dip into Medicare money to pay the government's other bills?

The administration says no, trying to turn the tables back on Congress, and this will be the big debate when Congress returns from the July 4th recess. The president now must keep spending growth at about 4 percent or else he's going to be in a fight with Congress over who's dipping into the Social Security or the Medicare surplus funds.

BLITZER: And, John, as you know, the vice president came back to work as promised this morning. He and the president were in the Oval Office later in the day. They had this brief exchange before reporters. Listen to what they had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Very good. A little tender in the shoulder. It will pass.

QUESTION: Are you taking any pain pills or anything?

CHENEY: No.

BUSH: We were thinking about doing some jumping jacks before you came in, but...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: They were joking about the defibrillator that was implanted in the vice president's upper chest. What's going on behind the scenes?

KING: The strategy here at the White House, the vice president, when he announced he was going into the hospital and again today, two days after he's out of the hospital -- matter-of-factly. Routine procedure. "I'm doing just fine."

They understand there will be a lot of questions asked about the vice president's health: Is he up to the job, is he vigorous enough? They're trying to say he most certainly is. His doctors will keep monitoring him. The vice president, though, in very good spirits. Full day here at the White House today.

BLITZER: OK, John King at the White House. Thank you very much.

Meanwhile, President Bush today gained some popularity in Florida, at least presumably. The administration announced it's greatly reducing the scope of proposed oil drilling leases in the Gulf of Mexico, and will now keep drilling rigs at least 100 miles from Florida's beaches.

The president had initially backed a Clinton-era plan to open a much wider area for drilling, but his brother, Florida Governor Jeb Bush, suggests their personal relationship led the president to change his mind.

Today's move on oil drilling comes just as a consumer group says gasoline prices are up about 20 cents a gallon over the past two years because of what they say is market manipulation and concentration by the nation's refiners. The Consumer Federation wants the administration and Congress to find ways to increase competition and refinery and storage capacity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK COOPER, CONSUMER FEDERATION OF AMERICA: It's good news, bad news. The good news is the prices didn't keep going through the roof. The bad news is we've already paid perhaps 11, $12 billion more than we should have. The roller coaster is part of the problem. Plus then there's the concern that the prices will stabilize at higher levels than they have been in the past. We call that the ratchet effect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Still, the Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham says U.S. drivers are now paying less for gasoline than they did a year ago.

Turning now to another story we've been following: the search for Chandra Levy. The former government intern has been missing now for two months, and police here in Washington say their investigation will soon move in a new direction.

Let's go live to CNN national correspondent Bob Franken. One of those new directions, Bob, we're told is they're going to be looking in some of the landfills here in the Washington, D.C. area. What's going on?

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all what they've said and told us is that they're going to take what they call their cadaver dogs -- dogs that are specially trained to find bodies -- and check out the landfills and some of the dumps in the area to see what they can find out about Chandra Levy.

Now, these are the same dogs that early in the investigation were used to search some of the waterfront areas, were used to search some of the areas where Chandra Levy might have run. She was an exercise -- somebody who exercised an awful lot. They had no success.

Police emphasized, Wolf, this does not mean that they have any more suspicion of foul play. They insist, and of course, they've been questioned repeatedly -- they insist that what they're actually just doing is trying to make sure that they cover every possibility, and this is just another one that they wanted to cover.

Now, another thing that they have disclosed is that they now have evidence that Chandra Levy was in her apartment in Washington May 1st. That's a day later than the April 30th that they had believed before. They based that on the fact that Chandra Levy apparently used her laptop computer to send an e-mail. That is what they believe. So they now believe that she was in her apartment May 1st. They say that there's nothing hugely significant about that.

Lastly, the police, through the FBI who are participants in this investigation, are still trying to interview the wife of Congressman Gary Condit. Congressman Condit, of course, has had the relationship with Chandra Levy discussed over and over again. Condit's office has repeatedly denied it was a romantic relationship. Now the FBI wants to talk to Mrs. Condit. There have been some intricate negotiations going on. That interview would be done in California.

BLITZER: Bob Franken in Washington, thank you very much.

It's been less than two weeks since Andrea Yates was charged with killing her five children in Houston. Now another community is rocked by a parent killing his children. Police shot and killed a father in Syracuse, New York, on Saturday. They say the man stabbed three of his sons, killing two and leaving the third in serious condition.

According to CNN's Jason Carroll, police still don't know why he did it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Relatives of the Tran family came by to read letters and look at flowers neighbors had left for the three little boys. They were too upset to talk. A spokeswoman did it for them.

JUDY HOWLEY, SPOKESWOMAN: Both families are grieving greatly over the tragedy of the weekend, and they ask that your support and care and concern for them be shown by letting them grieve as a family.

CARROLL: What happened to the children here on Kirkpatrick Street is so unsettling, police and neighbors are still having a tough time coming to terms with it.

THAERON ROBINSON, NEIGHBOR: I never would have expected anything of this magnitude to happen right next door.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's taken a terrible, terrible toll on all of the officers that were here.

CARROLL: Police were called to the house late Saturday after neighbors heard screams and called 911. The children's mother had come home from a wedding. The door was locked. She looked through a window and saw one of her children lying on the floor. She told police their father, Cuong Tran, yelled through the door that he was killing her children. Neighbors heard and saw it.

WILLIAM BROOKS, NEIGHBOR: First time I walked up, I saw the guy pacing back and forth in the kitchen, to be exact, with a bloody baby in his hands. And came out, told the guy we got to do something.

CARROLL: Police forced their way in and say they found Tran had stabbed his three children. Danny, age 6 and Randy, 5, were dead. Andy, age 7, was barely alive. Officers say they shot and killed Tran after he came at them with a knife.

(on camera): His motive for the stabbing may have died with him. The boys' mother has been too distraught to help detectives and the police investigation has been having trouble because of a language barrier. The family is of Vietnamese descent. The couple were unmarried, but they had lived together for eight years.

(voice-over): CARROLL: Andy is in critical condition at University Hospital. His family keeps watch over him, while his neighbors continue to offer prayers.

Jason Carroll, CNN, Syracuse, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: The killings in Syracuse and Texas raise the troubling question of why parents kill. I'll ask a forensic scientist and a criminal defense attorney when we come back.

Also, the Pentagon releases dramatic pictures of a fatal training exercise bombing in Kuwait.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. A mother in Houston is charged with murder in the deaths of her children. Her family blames her action on severe postpartum depression. A father in Syracuse is shot dead. Police say he stabbed his three children, two of them fatally.

Why to parents kill? Is mental illness a defense? Joining me now from Los Angeles are noted criminal defense attorney Robert Shapiro, the builder of the O.J. Simpson legal team, and forensic psychiatrist Saul Faerstein, he also worked on the Simpson case and many others of a very high-profile nature.

Thanks to both of you for joining us.

Dr. Faerstein, let me begin with you with a general question. You've looked at this, you've studied it. What makes a parent, either a mother or a father, in this particular case in Syracuse, kill a child or their children?

DR. SAUL FAERSTEIN, FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST: Well, there are different reasons a parent could do this. The case in Syracuse seems different than the case in Texas. The case in Texas seems to be a woman who suffered from postpartum psychosis, a very serious mental disorder in which this actually, a loss of touch with reality. I believe that she had a long history of mental illness, significant mental illness, for which she was treated with very powerful drugs.

I think that she finally reached a point where she might have been out of touch of reality and out of touch with her controls. The case in Syracuse seems a little different, because as its reported by the media, I think the husband and wife were having a dispute and the husband was very angry at the woman for leaving the house that evening, and when she returned, he was seen actually holding the child up in the window, as he was killing the child. A very bizarre act, but it seemed directed at the wife.

BLITZER: Robert Shapiro, on Friday night, I interviewed one of Andrea Yates' brothers, Andrew Kennedy, and he had met with Andrea Yates. Listen to what he said about what he saw when we were together in the past few days. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We saw her getting despondent and she had been had robot looks for a long time. But she was treated as best we knew how.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Is that a basis for an insanity defense, not guilty on the base of insanity -- what you've heard so far?

ROBERT SHAPIRO, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think it is. First, more compelling, is whether or not this woman, Mrs. Yates, will be able to stand trial. Whether or not she is competent to understand the proceedings that are about to begin. When you see her, in the television footage that I've seen, she looks comatose, her husband has described her activities, her brothers have now described it, and it does not seem that this is a person who is in touch with reality.

BLITZER: Dr. Faerstein, by definition to most of us, anyone who kills a child has to be crazy, yet, there are nine woman across the country right now on death row for killing either one or more of their children. Is there any other way to explain a mother or a father killing a child other than they're crazy?

FAERSTEIN: Well, crazy of course could cover a lot of bases. I think certainly it's incomprehensible for a woman to kill her child, you have to overcome so many natural instincts. It's just such a bizarre and monstrous crime, that there needs to be some explanation. And mental illness is usually some explanation for the act.

BLITZER: In picking up on that point, Robert Shapiro, our latest CNN-"USA Today"-Gallup Poll, actually just a Gallup Poll, asked a nationwide sampling of country, should there be a death penalty if Andrea Yates is found guilty of murder? Look at these numbers: 44 percent of those who responded said yes. 43 percent said no.

And I think if you would do a similar poll in Texas where the death penalty is obviously much more prevalent than it is in the country nationwide, the numbers would be higher. Isn't that a high hurdle for her defense attorney to have to overcome? This willing, this desire to do something about a woman who allegedly killed her five children?

SHAPIRO: It is not only a high hurdle, many times it's insurmountable. Although we can recognize certain types of illness, from medical professionals, nobody really seems to be able to focus in on mental illness. If it's cancer, if it's diabetes, people will accept those types of medical diagnosis.

But when it's diseases of the mind, when you're dealing with postpartum depression, or potentially postpartum psychosis, people believe that individuals should be responsible for their own activities, and should be able to control themselves, regardless of whether or not they're mentally incapacitated.

BLITZER: When I interviewed one of the brothers the other day, he said something to me that he repeated in the "Dallas Morning News" on Saturday. Andrew Kennedy, one of Andrea Yates' brothers, he said this:

"She said, I think the devil's in me."

Dr. Faerstein, that may be a simplistic way of saying something that may have a deeper psychological meaning. You can understand what the point he is trying to make, based on your many interviews of people who go through this severe depression.

FAERSTEIN: I think he's telling us that she had significant mental illness. I think that's well documented that she had a psychotic condition before. She was treated with Haldol, which is a medication used to treat psychosis, that she'd been out of touch with reality. She had two prior suicide attempts and the brother called her robotic and catatonic for some time, even before the killing of the children.

So I think there is clear evidence that the woman had severe mental disorder. Whether the jury will feel sympathy for her is an important element in whether or not she can be acquitted by reason of insanity.

BLITZER: All right, gentlemen, unfortunately, we have to leave it there. Robert Shapiro and Saul Faerstein, thanks so much for joining us tonight.

SHAPIRO: Thank you.

FAERSTEIN: Thank you.

BLITZER: Up next, a member of the U.S. Air Force may be the target of a sex crime investigation. The latest in the investigation in Okinawa near the largest U.S. Air Base in Asia when we come back.

And, you'll hear the dramatic cockpit tape detailing the military accident in Kuwait.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: A live picture of the moon rising over the nation's capitol.

Welcome back. In other news tonight: in about eight hours, Slobodan Milosevic will represent himself before a U.N. War Crimes Tribunal in The Hague. One of the lawyers working with the former Yugoslav president says because Milosevic does not recognize the tribunal, he will not have lawyers represent him there. Milosevic is accused of crimes against humanity carried our by the Yugoslav army in Kosovo.

US Airways and United Airlines apparently will not be uniting. The two say they're discussing the termination of their planned merger. Sources say United's parent, UAL corporation, has become convinced the $4.3 billion deal would not necessarily win regulatory approval. Antitrust watchdogs are said to fear that the combined airlines would dominate the market in Washington and several other cities.

Big trouble for a U.S. Air Force sergeant in Okinawa, Japan. Japanese police have received an arrest warrant for Timothy Woodland, whom they accuse of raping a woman against the side of a car in a trendy tourist spot. Police say they have solid witness testimony and strong physical evidence. Woodland says he's innocent.

Tonight on the "Leading Edge": a new look at how human error can still cause tragedy in military dominated by high-tech weaponry. The Pentagon has just released a cockpit videotape from the accident in which a Navy pilot mistakenly bombed a U.S. troop position during a training exercise in Kuwait. His plane was loaded with high-tech equipment, but sometimes that's not enough to prevent an accident.

CNN military affairs correspondent Jamie McIntyre has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The just-released video shows what F-18 Pilot Navy Commander David Zimmerman saw on his cockpit display and heard on his radio as he mistakenly dropped three 500-pound bombs on U.S. troops during a live- fire exercise.

GROUND CONTROLLER (HAVOC): Hey, this is Havoc two-zero. Need immediate Medivac at O-P Ten. Bombs was dropped on our position. Midevac at O-P Ten immediately!

MCINTYRE: Six people were killed in the March 12th friendly fire accident at the Udairi range in Kuwait. The victims included four U.S. Army soldiers, an Air Force air controller and a New Zealander. Commander Zimmerman received most of the blame for the accident, because investigators concluded he released his bombs a split-second before an Air Force controller on the ground cleared him.

(on camera): Zimmerman was found guilty last May of dereliction of duty and relieved of command. The ground controller, staff sergeant Timothy Crusing, who essentially called in the strike on his own position, was given a nonpunitive reprimand, because although his call may have been in error, it occurred a second or two after the pilot had already dropped his bombs.

Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Up next, I'll open our mailbag. At least one of you thinks I'm pathetic and sick, but someone else says I'm sensitive and caring. I'll explain. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Time now to open our mailbag. Many of you reacted to my interview Friday night with Andrea Yates' two brothers on the drowning of her five children. This from Alfred in San Rafael, California: "You were pathetic. In their hour of grief, what do you expect to get from these people? You, like so many other newsman, are sick, sick, sick."

But this from Elizabeth in New York: "I have been very upset over the Andrea Yates story and therefore I was most grateful for the very tactful and sensitive way you interviewed her brothers. I was afraid I'd hear the stock-in-trade: 'how do you feel?' and, 'if you could say something to (the children, Andrea, etc.) what would you say?' I was touched by your sensitivity, yet you asked important questions."

Remember, I want to hear from you. Please e-mail me at wolf@cnn.com. And you can read my daily on-line column and sign up for my e-mail previewing our nightly programs by going to my Web site: cnn.com/wolf.

That's all the time we have tonight. Thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN" begins right now.

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