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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

The Human Cloning Debate: Science, Morality and Politics Clash

Aired August 07, 2001 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, the human cloning debate. Science and morality clash as researchers announce plans to make genetic copies of people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. PANOS ZAVOS, THE ANDROLOGY INSTITUTE: I think it's a matter of determination and I think we are determined to get there.

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BLITZER: It's hot, in the 90's, coast to coast, the heat index heats triple digits at the president's Texas ranch while New York's mayor tells how to beat the heat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR RUDY GIULIANI, NEW YORK: Take as much of your clothes off as you're legally allowed to do.

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BLITZER: And with the Chandra Levy investigation stalled, Washington's police chief criticizes Congressman Gary Condit for not coming forward sooner. Following all the recent Condit-bashing, I'll speak with some of his supporters, live from Condit country.

Good evening, I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting tonight from a sweltering Washington, D.C. More on the nation's brutally hot weather shortly. I'll also talk live with some people whom we haven't heard much from lately, supporters of Congressman Gary Condit.

But we begin with an extraordinary debate that broke out today at the National Academy of Sciences here in Washington, whether to go forward with plans to clone human beings, and that's our top story.

It's the stuff of science fiction stories, and some argue horror stories, but advocates of human cloning say the future is now. Joining me now with some perspective on the debate, CNN medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen.

Elizabeth, tell us what happened today.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it was really an incredible day at the National Academy of Sciences. I have been to a lot of scientific conferences, I've never seen one that -- where the debate was this bitter.

The two groups that want to clone human beings presented the details. Other people at the meeting were horrified.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(CROSSTALK)

COHEN (voice-over): In the usually stayed halls of the National Academy of Sciences, bitter angry debate.

(CROSSTALK)

COHEN: On the one side, those who say they're ready to start cloning human beings.

BRIGITTE BOISSELIER, CLONAID: ... and this will be done. And I hope it's done properly in a very safely way. I'm doing it...

COHEN: Another group, an international team of fertility specialists, says that in a month or two they'll have embryos ready to insert in up to 200 women to start a pregnancy. They say by the end of next year, they expect the babies will be born. Each baby would be the clone of his or her mother or father.

Panos Zavos, an infertility specialist and a former professor at the University of Kentucky, who heads up that team, says the infertile couples come from various countries.

ZAVOS: Because they want a child. Very simple. I think that we're talking about a very severe problem that they have, infertility. They want to have children, biological children, of their own.

COHEN: Zavos says he'll use the same technology that produced Dolly, the cloned sheep, four years ago. The person to be clones donates a single cell, say a skin cell. Scientists then take the DNA from that cell and insert it into a human egg, which has its DNA removed. Then, a jolt of electricity causes the cell to divide, just like a normal embryo does.

COHEN: Other scientists at the meeting pummeled representatives of the two groups that want to clone human beings. They said that animal cloning experiments have been disastrous, most of the babies have ended up deformed. In fact, the creator of Dolly the sheep said that cloning humans would be barbaric.

IAN WILMUT, ROSLIN INSTITUTE: It would include late abortions, the birth of dead children and, perhaps worse of all, the birth of children that survive but which have an abnormality.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COHEN: Now, while these two groups say they have the technological wherewithal to go ahead with the cloning, quite soon, within the next few months, some people doubt them and say that they really aren't as ready as they sound.

BLITZER: Elizabeth, some critics are already asking why the National Academy of Sciences, which advises the U.S. government, gave such a forum to some scientists, doctors, whom many would regard on the fringe of this entire issue?

COHEN: You know, it's interesting because Congress did the same thing. Everyone who testified here today also testified to Congress in March, and I think it's really so that they can -- so that other scientists could have a chance to question them, because you don't meet up with these people, usually. They're kind of doing their private work in these very secret labs and they wanted to give a chance to the critics to address them face to face and say, first of all, are you really ready to do this? And second of all, how could you do this? They think it's so unsafe.

BLITZER: Elizabeth Cohen, thanks again for joining us.

And this note, tonight CNN is devoting a full hour to the topic of cloning. Join us at 10:00 p.m. Eastern for a special report: "Human Cloning: Science Or Sacrilege?" Followed at 10:30 p.m. by a roundtable discussion on "GREENFIELD AT LARGE."

In other news, a blanket of hot, humid temperatures covers much of the nation. Here in Washington, a heat advisory is now in effect as the high hit 97 degrees and right now it's still 91 with a heat index that makes it feel 94 degrees. It's even hotter in New York. Here's a live picture. It's officially a heat wave there with temperatures over 90 for a third day in a row. Today's high, 98 degrees. The heat index, 103 degrees.

And that sent younger New Yorkers into the streets to find some relief from all this heat, using fire hydrants to cool off. New York mayor Rudy Giuliani came out with some important advise to deal with the heat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GIULIANI: First of all, get a pair of sunglasses. It helps with the glare and it protect your eyes. Second, wear light colors and take them off. Take as much of your clothes off as you're legally allowed to do. I emphasize the last part of that. Legally allowed to do.

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BLITZER: And it's also hot in Texas, but the vacationing President Bush said it was fine with him, especially compared to the political heat in Washington. He golfed while it hit 97 degrees with a heat index of 103.

It hit 95 degrees in Minneapolis today, knocking out power to thousands of people in the Twin Cities. The heat index soared to 105.

CNN meteorologist Jill Brown joins us now with the latest on what's causing the heat, and how long it will last. Jill? JILL BROWN, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, Wolf, we actually have some good news out there, so hang tight if you can. This has not only been uncomfortably, miserably hot, it's been dangerously hot. We've had a number of deaths, so we urge you to take the precautions you have to. Spent some time in the air conditioning. Sometimes going to work can be good because you typically have air conditioning at work.

The jet stream has pretty much been holding that cold air hostage north of the border, but we think that's about to change. The heat and humidity that's been making it feel so hot recently is going to be squashed a little bit farther to the south.

(WEATHER FORECAST)

BLITZER: Jill Brown, thank you very much. And now the latest on the shark attack. This story is one that involves courage and controversy. It took place Saturday at a beach resort in Freeport, Bahamas. On a 10th anniversary vacation with his wife, Wall Street banker Krishna Thompson was swimming alone when he was attacked. His leg nearly torn off, he managed to fight off the shark, swim to shore and scrawl his room number in the sand before passing out.

Today, Ave Maria Thompson said lifeguards did not help her husband as he struggled.

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AVE MARIA THOMPSON, WIFE OF SHARK ATTACK VICTIM: He was screaming for help, and nobody came. Nobody came. He had to swim. They were all scared, they were looking at him and they were scared to get in the water. What kind of lifeguards are those? I could do that! I could sit on a chair -- I could sit on a chair.

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BLITZER: The resort says lifeguards did pull Thompson out of the water and applied a tourniquet, helped by a passing doctor. Thompson had part of his leg amputated in a Miami hospital and is now recovering.

Turning now to the Chandra Levy case, D.C. police make it clear their investigation isn't getting very far. Could Congressman Gary Condit have done more to help? Let's go live to CNN national correspondent Bob Franken. Once again, he's in our Washington bureau. Bob.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And Wolf, it'll be 100 days tomorrow since Chandra Levy disappeared and the central focus, of all the news coverage at least, has been Congressman Gary Condit. He did four interviews with the police. It was in interview number three, according to police sources, that he finally admitted to investigators that he had had a romantic, intimate relationship with Chandra Levy. And today the police chief, Charles Ramsey, joined those who have complained that Condit could have helped the investigation, could have made things a lot easier.

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CHIEF CHARLES RAMSEY, D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE: There is information that we wish we had gotten early on in the investigation from the congressman. We've gotten a lot of information since that point in time. We're going through that information now.

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FRANKEN: Now, the police chief is among those who has been questioning exactly what did happen to Chandra Levy. There's always been the question whether it has been a matter of foul play or if she in fact disappeared herself.

Today, the police chief spoke of it as an outside possibility that she is missing on her own. Those are exact words. Now, the assistant police chief, Terrance Gainer, spoke with CNN. He had a slightly more optimistic point of view.

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TERRANCE GAINER, D.C. ASSISTANT POLICE CHIEF: The fact that we have not discovered a body; the fact that there has been no street talk about what may have happened, again, can cut both ways. I think what we have to do is kind of stick to the facts, keep our options open on any one of those things we think may have happened, and see what the results will be.

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FRANKEN: And Wolf, it's always important to restate that Congressman Condit, according to the police, is not a suspect in the disappearance. Wolf.

BLITZER: Bob, have the police actually given up on a lie detector, an officially organized lie detector test, that would be taken by Congressman Condit?

FRANKEN: Well, they probably wouldn't say given up, but the real answer is yes. Of course, as we remember, the congressman's attorney, Abbe Lowell, arranged for Condit to take a lie detector test from someone he was paying to give the test. The police have said all along that test was inadequate, but they have no real way to order or force Condit to take their own lie detector test.

BLITZER: Bob Franken in Washington, once again, thank you very much. And Gary Condit's taken a lot of heat for his conduct in the Chandra Levy investigation. Now, his supporters get their term. We'll go live to so-called Condit country.

And Roger Clinton goes from the stage to the courtroom. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Police say he's not a central figure in the Chandra Levy case, but he's been the center of attention. His private life has become a public scandal. Some of his colleagues even want him to resign.

But Gary Condit, who last year won his seventh term in Congress with 67 percent of the vote, still has some strong support back home. And some of his fans rallied last night in what they still call Condit country.

One of those fans, Gary Condit's father.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. ADRIAN CONDIT: And I want you to know this evening that no amount of news media rhetoric, implications, or accusations, sources known or unknown, will ever divide the Condit family.

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BLITZER: They helped organize last night's rally and they're sticking with Gary Condit. Joining me now from Modesto, California, two supporters of the congressman, Yvonne Allen and Javier Rangel. Thank you to both of you for joining us and, Yvonne, I want to begin with you. Tell us why you still support Gary Condit.

YVONNE ALLEN, CONDIT SUPPORTER: Gary has been a wonderful representative in the valley. I have been an advocate for women's rights and we started one of the first shelters in California for battered women and he was one of the only elected representatives who would give us the time of day, basically, back in the 70's, when domestic violence was never discussed.

BLITZER: Javier, tell us why you still support Gary Condit.

JAVIER RANGEL, CONDIT SUPPORTER: Well, I think one of the things that's important to realize is that a lot of people in this district really feel like Gary is kind of a family member. We've all been touched by the good work that he's done and with any family member, you know, if they make mistakes, if they have transgressions, we don't agree with those transgressions and those mistakes, but we look at it with a forgiving attitude. And we, as supporters of Gary Condit, are giving him the benefit of the doubt until we feel comfortable to feel otherwise.

And so far, we feel that he's cooperated completely. He's gone beyond what any normal person would do in terms of giving up his civil rights. So, myself and a group -- go ahead.

BLITZER: No. I was going to bring back Yvonne and, Yvonne, as you know, a lot of critics of Gary Condit say that the Levy family, Dr. Robert Levy and Susan Levy, their daughter Chandra, still missing, they say he lied to them directly and as a result they're angry at this congressman. How can you justify the fact that when their daughter showed up missing, he lied to them about the romantic relationship that he later confessed to?

ALLEN: You know, a lot of people want to keep hidden some of the things that we don't want the public to know in terms of our personal life, but once all of this broke, he came forward, he's been cooperative. He's met with the police four times. I think he's done more than what he needed to do.

BLITZER: But you heard, Yvonne, the police chief here in Washington, Charles Ramsey, saying today he wishes Congressman Condit would have come clean during that first meeting with the police as opposed to the third meeting, which was weeks, weeks into the investigation.

ALLEN: Well, that's history now, isn't it? I think he has been forthcoming with the information. He's answered all questions. He's taken a lie detector test, which he didn't have to do. He's had them search his apartment, which he didn't have to do. He's been very cooperative.

BLITZER: Javier, does it trouble you, all these reports that we now have, not only an affair with Chandra Levy but the flight attendant, Anne Marie Smith, another woman who worked as an aide to Congressman Condit; does that trouble you and other supporters of the congressman? That he's had apparently all of these extra-marital affairs?

RANGEL: Yes, absolutely. It's troubling to everybody. But at the same time, we're going to suspend judgment until we see fit to think otherwise. What everybody seems to not understand is that it's really not the media that decides what action needs to be taken by Gary Condit. It's himself, his family and the 18th congressional district.

We're the ones that decide, and we want the opportunity to let everything come out and suspend judgment, give him the benefit of the doubt, as we are here, and see what happens. But we are not ready at this point to try, convict him, and persecute him and prosecute him all in the public media. So, we're suspending judgment, and at this point, Gary has a lot of support, more than I think the media is willing to accept.

BLITZER: As you know, Yvonne, the congressman is coming under increasing criticism from his colleagues in the House of Representatives and some Senators, Dianne Feinstein, for example, of California, but a Republican congressman, Scott McInnis of Colorado was on this program about two weeks ago. I want you to listen to what he said about Congressman Condit's behavior. Listen to this.

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REP. SCOTT MCINNIS (R), COLORADO: The activity that is taking place is reprehensible. We have to assure this nation that this is an institution of honor and that our interns are not back here for the lovemaking purposes of U.S. congressmen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Yvonne, you said you support women's rights. Are you troubled by what Congressman McInnis said?

ALLEN: You know, he made a political statement, basically. I think we have to consider the source. Women are old enough, if they are adult women, they are old enough to make their own choices. That's what the feminist movement was all about, women making their own choices, and being responsible for their own actions.

BLITZER: Javier, do you want to hear directly from Congressman Condit? You know, he's been widely criticized in the district out there in California for remaining silent all of these many months. Wouldn't you like him to explain his side of the story publicly to the constituents out there?

RANGEL: Absolutely. And I think that will happen in time. But just because he, to this point, has refused to make himself available for public comment to the media, that doesn't mean he's guilty. That doesn't mean that we're going to give up on him.

I think people realize that the position that he was in was a no win position. He really, if he had gone before the media, that would have been an open door and what I think he's trying to do is stick to the facts. Stick to being accountable to those to which he needs to be accountable, which is the police, which is his family, which is his constituency, and God, ultimately.

BLITZER: Unfortunately, we have to leave it right there. Javier Rangel and Yvonne Allen, thanks to both of you for joining us and presenting your side of the story. We appreciate it very much.

And a pilot in Florida has to find a place for an emergency landing. Coming up, we'll show you where that plane touched down and what happened to the people inside.

And a Clinton makes a deal to stay out of jail. Details on the deal and the charges Roger Clinton was facing. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

In other news, today the United States bombed an Iraqi rocket launcher. The Pentagon says the rocket launcher fired at U.S. planes patrolling the northern no-fly zone and in response a U.S. F-16 dropped two 500 pound laser guided bombs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES: The missions that took place were fully in accordance with established allied war plans and, as I said, Saddam Hussein is a menace. He's still a menace, and we need to keep him in check, and will.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The strike was the first against Iraqi air defenses since July 17th.

A dramatic crash landing today in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. The pilot of a small plane touched down in a busy intersection, clipping at least one vehicle in the process. Amazingly, no serious injuries, although two people onboard the plane were slightly hurt.

Microsoft is asking the Supreme Court to throw out a district judge's ruling that it violated anti-trust laws. Earlier, an appeals court found the judge to have shown bias. No Microsoft -- Microsoft is now arguing all his findings should be tossed aside. The software giant is also asking the high court to delay having the case assigned back to a lower court for further consideration.

No jail time for Roger Clinton. Instead, the half-brother of former president Bill Clinton pleaded guilty to a non-alcohol related charge of reckless driving. Roger Clinton had faced three initial charges, two counts of drunken driving and one for disturbing the peace. Those were dismissed. A judge sentenced Clinton to 24-months probation and a fine.

Up next, I'll open our mail bag. Many of you remain passionately outraged by Congressman Gary Condit's behavior. I'll share some of your e-mail. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Time now to open our mail bag. We've received lots of e-mail about the pro-Condit rally last night in California.

Joann from Scottsdale, Arizona writes this: "Watching the speakers at the pro-Condit rally is a laugh. This guy is a complete pig and predator, a coward who cares only for what promotes his self interest."

But this from Ray in Arizona: "Why do you think it is necessary to attack Gary Condit with greater ferocity than you did Bill Clinton"?

We also received lots of mail about President Bush's working vacation in Texas. Alma rights this: "I wonder if Mr. Bush advocates that other members of the American work force have a month's vacation for each six-months work"?

And Lisa from San Diego: "My French brother-in-law told my husband and me that our president is taking a month long vacation. I thought he was joking, but no, it's true. It must be nice for him. I get two weeks."

I only get two weeks myself.

Remember, I want to hear from you. Please e-mail me at Wolf@cnn.com.

And you can read my daily on-line column and sign-up for my e- mail previewing our nightly programs by going to my Web site, cnn.com/wolf.

Please stay with CNN throughout the night. A tribute to Liberace on LARRY KING LIVE at the top of the hour. Up next, Greta Van Susteren. She's standing by in Chicago tonight to tell us what she has. Greta.

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