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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Targeted for Death: Israel's Policy of Assassination

Aired August 30, 2001 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Tonight, targeted for death. Two Israeli missiles hit a West Bank apartment this week, killing the leader of a radical Palestinian group, the latest of dozens of Palestinians singled out for killing.

Israel says it's acting in self-defense, preempting terror attacks. Palestinians say the killings are nothing less than assassinations. The U.S., which has provided Israel with some of the weapons used in this campaign, has criticized the killings. Should it do more? We'll take a close look at this issue, with a special report from CNN national security correspondent David Ensor. And I'll speak live with two leading voices on U.S. national security: former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, who played a key role in early Arab-Israeli peace efforts; and former Defense Secretary William Cohen.

Good evening. I'm Wolf Blitzer, reporting tonight from Capitol Hill.

On February 18, 1976, then-President Gerald Ford signed an executive order specifically prohibiting the U.S. government from engaging in political assassinations. That order has remained in effect ever since, although some have accused the U.S. of attempting to assassinate Saddam Hussein, Muammar Qadhafi, Osama bin Laden, among others.

Now Israel, a close U.S. ally, is engaged in a controversial policy of targeting Palestinians suspected of planning acts of terror. Often, U.S.-supplied weapons are used. That raises major political, military and moral questions for the Bush administration and for Congress. CNN national security correspondent David Ensor has some background on our focus tonight, "Targeted for Death."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Israeli missiles Monday hit the office of Mustafa Zubari, a leader of a radical Palestinian group, it was the latest in a series of targeted killings of men Israel says were plotting terrorism against Israelis. Justifiable self-defense, say Israel's friends.

MICHAEL EISENSTADT, WASHINGTON INSTITUTE: We have people on the Palestinian side who are involved in the killing of innocent civilians, women and children. And as a result, I don't think there is any government in the world in the situation that Israel is in that would do anything less.

RICHARD BOUCHER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: We have made clear our opposition to targeted killings.

ENSOR: At the State Department, there are frequent criticisms of the targeted killings and objections, even from Secretary of State Powell, against Israel using heavy U.S.-supplied weapons, such as F- 16s, in the attacks.

And yet, the Bush administration's view may be mixed. "In some cases, I suppose, by their lights, it is justified," Vice President Cheney told an interviewer. "I think there's some justification in their trying to protect themselves by preempting."

EISENSTADT: I think to a large extent this represents the message that is probably being passed privately to the Israeli government, and the statements that we hear on a day-to-day basis, you know, by the State Department spokesmen represents our public diplomatic position.

ENSOR: Whatever Washington says, in the Arab world there are few who doubt that what they call the Israeli policy of assassinations has America's blessing. That, say some experts, along with the deteriorating Middle East situation, is starting to hurt U.S. national interests, such as Arab help against terrorism.

BRIAN JENKINS, RAND: To the extent that it is perceived that we are backing Israeli actions, it makes it more difficult for them to cooperate with us in combating terrorism in general.

ENSOR: Then, there is economics. Saudi Arabia awarded big gas contracts this summer. The assumption was American companies would get the lion's share. The Saudis decided otherwise.

JEAN ABINADER, ARAB AMERICAN CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: They won't say in public, but we have been advised that the reason was because the Saudis want to show the Americans that Saudi Arabia is not their preserve. And they didn't feel the United States was really supportive of the sensitivities the Saudis have toward what America's policy is in the Middle East and how it's hurting the Palestinians.

ENSOR (on camera): Privately, U.S. officials say they get the worst of both worlds on this issue. Even if they criticize Israel, many Arabs blame the U.S. for what Israel does, and Israeli officials complain about the criticism. Could the U.S. make Israel stop if it wanted to? A senior State Department official says no, not without endangering the overall relationship with an important ally.

David Ensor, CNN, the State Department.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Acts of self-defense or assassinations? What should the U.S. role be in this controversy? Joining me now from Kent, Connecticut: former Secretary of State and National Security Adviser Henry Kissinger. He won the Nobel Peace Prize for his role in the Vietnam Accord, and he invented shuttle diplomacy while mediating the Arab-Israeli conflict in the 1970s. And from our Washington bureau: former Defense Secretary William Cohen, who served on both the Armed Services and Intelligence Committees during his many years in the U.S. Senate. He's now a contributor to CNN's LOU DOBBS "MONEYLINE."

Gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us. And Dr. Kissinger, let me begin with you. The State Department says these are targeted killings, the Palestinians call them assassinations. The Israelis insist these are acts of self-defense. What do you call them?

HENRY KISSINGER, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I think they are targeted -- I would call them targeted killings. But I don't think one can really deal with it by giving it a label. Israel is in a very desperate situation, in the sense that they are militarily very superior, but the conditions for a middle class society, which they are, of where children cannot be sent to school in the morning without worrying what will happen to them as a result of suicide bombers, creates a very desperate frame of mind.

The United States cannot adopt this as a principle of policy, but we have to understand that is a very, very difficult situation.

BLITZER: Secretary Cohen, are these acts of legitimate self- defense or violations of what is called U.S. Arms Control Export Act, which requires Israel to use U.S. weaponry only in self-defense?

WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: We have a somewhat unique situation here, Wolf. This is a country which is not officially at war, and yet is not a peace either. And so, you then get into a definitional problem in terms of -- under the United Nations Charter, Article 51, any nation is able to act in self-defense if attacked. And then, you have the whole issue of anticipatory self- defense, and the question becomes: Is this anticipatory in defending Israeli security, or does it beyond that?

I think -- I agree with Dr. Kissinger, we ought not get bogged down in labeling this, but rather look at the situation. Violence begets more violence, and you have a terrorist bomb that blows up in a residential or commercial area killing 20 or 21 people, is that more moral or less moral than what the Israelis are now doing? I think what we have to do is to say to both sides, stop. The Mitchell report must be adopted. Get back to bargaining again, talking, establishing a peace process.

I doubt very much whether we will see a peace, so to speak, in the Middle East for some time to come, in terms of a final solution or final negotiations, but we do need to establish a peace process, and in this role the United States must clearly become more actively and affirmatively involved.

BLITZER: All right, Secretary Cohen, we are going to get to that in a moment. But let me bring Dr. Kissinger back. And among the criticism -- there is a lot of criticism leveled against this Israeli policy. Vincent Cannistraro, a former chief of counter-terrorism over at the CIA wrote in today's "Washington Post" this. And let me read it to you, and we'll put it up on the screen. He said: "As a counter- terrorist technique, assassination is not only immoral but ineffective in accomplishing its stated goal, the deterrence of terrorism."

Is this policy, is this Israeli tactic being successful in deterring terrorism?

KISSINGER: I have no personal judgment on how successful it is or whether this is the most effective way of fighting terrorism, but we have to keep in mind that when there is an act of terrorism against Israel, when Israel uses conventional arms, they are told to exercise restraint. When they put up economic blockades, they are told they are harassing the population. And they cannot just sit there and let themselves be strangled gradually.

I agree with Secretary Cohen that there has to be a return to negotiations, but before there can be negotiations, there has to be an end of violence.

BLITZER: Well, let me ask Secretary Cohen the question about this tactic being successful in deterring future act of terrorism. You have studied this issue over many, many years. Will this deter the Palestinians?

COHEN: I think it's unlikely to deter them in the long run. It's likely to beget more acts of terrorism.

I say that with some qualifications, because the United States, of course, did respond on two occasions, once when Muammar Qadhafi authorized bombing of the Berlin discotheque, killing some Americans, and which President Ronald Reagan authorized an attack on Libya, on the barracks, killing of Qadhafi's adopted daughter, among other people, and our own administration, the Clinton administration, when we authorized the attack upon the terrorist camps in Afghanistan. Did they disrupt some of the terrorist's activities? Probably. In the long run will they be successful in preventing more act of terrorism? I doubt it. I think what we have to do is to have generally international cooperation and agreement that terrorism is a scourge that must be eliminated, but this type of a policy in the long run is unlikely to be very productive.

BLITZER: Secretary Cohen, on that last point. Let me just press you. Did the Clinton Administration -- and you were the Defense Secretary -- attempt to kill Osama bin Laden in retaliation for the twin embassy bombings in East Africa? When the U.S. bombed those positions in Afghanistan?

Cohen: What we had was intelligence that Osama bin Laden and his colleagues were planning more attacks upon U.S. facilities, embassies and installations. We had specific information about a gathering and training operation that was taking place, and we decided to send a very strong message that we were not going to sit back and accept acts of terrorism directed against Americans with impunity, that this could not be carried out. And so we sent a very strong message, I think, to Osama bin Laden and to all the others who may have been at that camp.

BLITZER: Gentlemen, we are going to take a quick break. We're going to continue our discussion "Targeted for Death." And I'll ask former Secretaries Kissinger and Cohen about that U.S. policy of banning political assassinations. Also, accused of killing six members of his own family, he became one of the FBI's most wanted. Now, the manhunt is over. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Targeted for death. Israel says its campaign against Palestinian militants is a defense against terrorism. Palestinians call it a campaign of assassination. We continue our discussion now and I'm joined by the former Defense Secretary William Cohen in our Washington bureau. And from Kent, Connecticut, the former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger.

Dr. Kissinger, among the critics of this Israeli policy, as we heard before, is Brian Jenkins. one of the preeminent experts of counterterrorism. He says, the ambiguous -- in effect, the tacit support that the Bush administration is giving the Israeli government could make U.S. targets around the world very vulnerable. Listen to what Brian Jenkins says.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN JENKINS, RAND CORPORATION: The fact that there is ambiguity about the U.S. position is clearly perceived in the Arab world as tacit ,if not explicit, approval.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: How concerned should Americans be around the world that the U.S. government's effective support for Israel could make Americans a target for retaliation?

KISSINGER: I think, if we let our policy be influenced by the fear of assassination of Americans, we are going to be blackmailed forever. The United States cannot approve assassinations or attacks on individuals. The question is to what extent the United States should push its disapproval in a situation when an ally is -- when it's a question of life and death for ally.

I believe we should bring pressure on both sides to stop military action and to begin negotiation, and we should use our maximum influence in that direction. But we have to understand the ground rules can not be that one side is free to use all kinds of violence, and that then the United States stops the other one. We should make clear that in principle assassination is not a policy that we approve. And it is not a policy that the United States carries out. But in this particular case, I think the administration has hit about the right tone.

BLITZER: All right. Let me ask Secretary Cohen. You worked with Ed Walker closely. He was the Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs during the Clinton administration. He is now the president of the Middle East Institute. A retired foreign service officer, spent 34 years in the U.S. Foreign Service. He wrote a piece in the "Washington Post" recently.

Let me read to you what, among other things, he said about this Israeli policy. He said this: "The question must certainly be asked why our vice president thinks that assassination may be understandable in some cases for Israel while it is not understandable in any case for an Arab country. To leave the White House position in doubt is a disservice to every American diplomat who has in the past and will in the future deliver the principled message to his or her hosts that trial, conviction and death by intelligence are unacceptable."

There is a moral factor here, isn't there?

COHEN: I agree with what Ed is saying in that respect. I think to the extent there is ambiguity and there seems to be some conflict between statements coming from the State Department and those from the White House. This has to be clarified and any ambiguity removed that we are opposed to this policy. And so I agree with the basic thrust of it.

But again, coming back to morality. I think we make a mistake in trying to assess moral equivalency in terms of whether one act of violence -- the targeted killings or the assassinations -- are more immoral than taking a terrorist bomb and blowing up 21 or 25 innocent civilians. We ought not to get caught in that kind of a debate. What we have to do is come back to what Dr. Kissinger was saying earlier.

We have to stop the violence on both sides, get the parties back together, and the United States must see it to that the Israelis also stop the settlements that have been expanding, that they provide some hope for the Palestinians in terms of economic viability as well as some measure of dignity to their lives. And until that happens, we're going to see a continued spiral down into what I would call Dante's levels of the inferno.

BLITZER: Secretary Kissinger, we only have a few seconds left. Ever since you were Secretary of State in 1976, there has been an executive order banning political assassinations by the U.S. government. Are there any circumstances that you can envisage where that executive order should be lifted, where the U.S. should specifically target for assassination some other leader?

KISSINGER: I could only imagine that in circumstances -- really extraordinary circumstances. And I can't describe what the circumstances might be. It is the absolutely correct policy for the United States not to engage in assassination as act of governmental policy.

BLITZER: And yes or no, Secretary Cohen, do you agree?

COHEN: I agree with that.

BLITZER: I want to thank both of you for joining us on a complex, difficult subject . Secretary Cohen, Secretary Kissinger, thank you very much.

The manhunt is over. Ahead, police describe the moment they confronted accused killer Nikolay Soltys. And tires made out of plastic? We'll show you how new designs may mean safer tires for your car. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. In other top stories, the 10-day national manhunt for Nikolay Soltys is over. The Ukrainian immigrant accused of killing six family members was captured today in the backyard of his mother's home near Sacramento.

Investigators say Soltys' brother turned him in. He was found hiding under a desk in the yard, and did not resist arrest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DET. CHRIS JOACHIM, ARRESTING OFFICER: We entered the gate. It was a very confined area. We were able to grab him. He thrust hands in the air as soon as I entered the gate. I saw he wasn't armed, I secured my weapon, was able to grab him, extricate him from that little small area and Sergeant Brown was able to handcuff him along with the assistance of several of our partners right outside the gate area. And we brought the family back to the scene who positively identified him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: CNN will have much more on the Soltys' capture at the bottom of the hour on "THE POINT: WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN."

More legal trouble for former Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic. At the Hague today, the chief prosecutor of the U.N. War Crimes Tribunal says she plans to add genocide charges against him. Milosevic, who's already facing charges of crimes against humanity, remained defiant, denouncing the court and insisting his detention is illegal.

On the leading edge, Goodyear and Amerityre are moving ahead with plans to develop car tires that don't need to be inflated. These blowout-proof tires would eliminate the dangers of tread separation or puncture. So far, the companies don't have a timetable for when the tires might go on sale.

Researchers say dangerously high doses of aspirin can lower blood sugar levels and make cells more receptive to insulin. This research could help develop new drugs for type two diabetics. Doctors say this does not mean diabetics should increase dosages of aspirin on their own.

Up next, I'll open our mailbag. Lots of reaction to my discussion last night on character and politics. Should adultery automatically disqualify a politician? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Time now to open our mailbag. Lots of reaction to my interview on character and politics last night with conservative social critic William Bennett.

J.R. from Ohio writes this: "Bill Bennett hit a home run. The sooner the public stops being duped from the glamorous fakes like JFK and Slick Willie, the better."

Christie from Nebraska: "In my opinion, an act of adultery does not mean that a politician should withdraw from public service. The politician's constituents should have the opportunity to make that decision."

Remember, I want to hear from you. Please e-mail me at wolf@CNN.com. And you can read my daily online column and sign up for my e-mail previewing our nightly programs by going to my web site, CNN.com/wolf.

Please stay with CNN throughout the night. At the top of the hour on "LARRY KING LIVE, " Mike Dayton, a top aide to Congressman Gary Condit and four other Condit staff members.

Up next, Greta Van Susteren. She's standing by to tell us what she has -- Greta.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST, CNN'S "THE POINT": Wolf, imagine staying in prison for 15 years for a rape you didn't commit. One of my guests will tell what it was like since mid-May. Plus, if you had a chance to ask questions of Gary Condit's staff, what would you ask? I am going to ask my guests -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thanks, Greta. Sounds good. Tomorrow night, the CIA goes Hollywood. Is that good or bad? Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer on Capitol Hill. "THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN" begins right now.

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