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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

How Is Hillary Clinton Doing as a Senator?

Aired September 06, 2001 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Tonight, how's Hillary doing? As an activist first lady, she was a lightning rod, attracting harsh criticism. As a freshman senator, she has tried to avoid attention, but now, Hillary Rodham Clinton is stepping out. She's lashed out at President Bush, attacking his economic record.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: If he were a movie, he could be called, you know "Honey, I Shrunk the Surplus."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: What's Hillary Clinton's game plan? I'll ask Marcia Kramer of New York's WCBS-TV, who recently sat down with the senator for a rare interview. And we'll have a debate. Former Clinton White House aide Paul Begala, a big Hillary fan, squares off against Barbara Olson, author of "Hell to Pay," a scathing critique of Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Good evening. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting tonight from Capitol Hill.

She was no ordinary freshman senator when she was sworn in on January 3. Hillary Rodham Clinton was then still the nation's first lady. No U.S. first lady had ever made that trek from one end of Pennsylvania Avenue to the other. For months, she tried quietly to blend in among her 99 colleagues, taking a low public posture. But that was then, and this is now. And that's our focus tonight, how's Hillary doing?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

H. CLINTON: So today, we're calling on the President to give us a plan.

BLITZER: The junior senator from New York has gone on the war path. Her target: President Bush's tax cuts and budget proposals.

H. CLINTON: Now his staff has said that he will focus like a laser beam on the economy, but so far, the laser beam from the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue has only succeeded in vaporizing the surplus. RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think it's intriguing and worth watching how the Democrats are using her on the budget. She is a link to the Clinton era, one of whose proudest achieves was the elimination of the budget deficit and the creation of the surpluses.

BLITZER: Eight months after taking office, Hillary Clinton is increasingly speaking out and becoming a thorn in the side of the Bush administration. She led the fight against the confirmation of Mary Sheila Gall to head the consumer product safety commission.

H. CLINTON: It should not be too much to ask that the person who chairs it will actually protect consumers.

BLITZER: Gall was rejected along a strict party line in committee. That resulted in the always critical "New York Post" branding her, quote, "the new Senator No." Already she stands head and shoulders above her colleagues as the most doctrinaire foe of George W. Bush's administration.

H. CLINTON: And I'm just not going to comment on that.

BLITZER: After deliberately trying to avoid the spotlight during her early months in the senate, in part of because of her husband's controversial last minute presidential pardons and gifts, she's now starting to loosen up. She's begun granting media interviews, appearing last month with the other women senators on CNN's "LARRY KING LIVE."

H. CLINTON: I have to put in a special plug for my Republican colleagues, because they have been terrific to me personally and I think to all of us.

BLITZER: Later, she did a televised sit down interview with Marcia Kramer of WCBS in New York City.

H. CLINTON: Because I just think this administration is off on the wrong foot.

BLITZER: So who is the real Senator Clinton and where is she heading?

BROWNSTEIN: All of the ingredients are there for her to have a successful Senate career. The question will be, does she have it in her or does she want to stick around and pursue that? Or is she going to try something else such as running for president?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: One of the signs that Hillary Clinton is now feeling more comfortable in her role is the fact that she recently granted her first in depth television interview as a senator. She sat down with veteran political reporter Marcia Kramer of WCBS-TV, who joins me now live from New York.

Marcia, thanks for joining us. And tell us what the sense ask up in New York state right now. How is Senator Clinton doing? MARCIA KRAMER, WCBS REPORTER: Well, I have to tell you something. I was very impressed with the interview that I did with her for one very interesting reason. For the first time since I've seen her in essence going back to the whole campaign, she actually seems like she's comfortable doing what she's doing.

And I think that the thing that resonated most with me was when she said: "You know, being first lady wasn't a real job. This is a real job." And she's really getting into it. And I think that's what the people here in New York are starting to see. I mean, she is really trying to act as a senator from New York trying to do things for the people of New York. And of course, there's also the national political scene, too, but she's really assiduously working her district.

BLITZER: One of the questions I noticed in the interview that you had with her you. You asked her how she's balancing the fact that she is Bill Clinton's wife and that she is now a United States senator. I want to run a brief little excerpt from your interview. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

H. CLINTON: I'm both, actually still. Sometimes I think outside the Senate, people still respond to me because of Bill having been president. But increasingly, even on the outside people are you know yelling, "Senator, Senator."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Is she trying to emerge from Bill Clinton's shadow?

KRAMER: Well, I have to tell you that I really think that she is. I think she's also trying to emerge as a person who cares about things in New York.

You know, one of the things that would point to that is her evolving positions on the Middle East. In the beginning, you know, you could all remember her trip to Jordan and to Israel where she ended up kissing Suha Arafat. Well, those days have changed. And now Mrs. Clinton is very politically correct about Israel.

And it shows also an evolving feelings about the Middle East, which is very a passionate issue in New York. In fact, in my interview, she talked to me about how she thought it would be good for Israel to build a wall between itself and the Palestinians because as she said and I quote, "Walls made good neighbors."

So I think that she's winning points back here for those positions as well. But I also think that, you know, it's a difficult thing. Look she was first lady. She is Bill Clinton's wife.

But I said to her, "Are you Bill Clinton's wife or are you Hillary Rodham Clinton?" And she says, "I've always been Hillary Rodham Clinton. I've always been myself. And I think as she gets more comfortable being in the Senate, you're going to see more and more of Hillary coming out because that's who she is. And she doesn't have to hide behind anybody anymore.

BLITZER: You know I noticed in the August issue of "Vanity Fair," you probably saw the article that Gail Sheehy wrote about Mrs. Clinton. I'll read a brief excerpt. She said this.

"Indeed, she makes a point of seeking out some of the most rabid conservatives and telling them funny stories, fluttering her hands at Pete Domenici's jokes, letting Orrin Hatch lay a hand on the small of her back, stroking the arm of imagine this, Trent Lott. From my perch in the Senate gallery, it looks as if she's doing a Bill."

I noticed that your interview with Mrs. Clinton, you asked her if she's flirting with some of the men in the U.S. Senate.

KRAMER: Well, actually she blushed when I asked her that question. And she said that she tries to tell jokes, but she's not really good at doing it. So she's a very appreciate listener.

Look, I think that what she's trying to do is go into the senate, not be threatening, get along and become a good senator. You know what she said to me? She said, "You know, the people of New York took a great leap of faith in making me their senator."

And I think that she's taking that very seriously. And she wants to prove herself as a senator before she -- look, does she have other aspirations? Who knows. Probably yes, but I think right for now, I think she wants to prove herself as a senator in New York.

And I think she's starting to feel really comfortable doing that. I think that just the way you see -- I mean, if you saw the whole interview, you see a relaxed Hillary, not the person that you saw during the political campaign, somebody who's enjoying exactly what she's doing.

I mean, look, she's a policy wonk. She loves this stuff. And she's in her element. And I think that's really starting to show in the Hillary we see here and possibly in the Hillary you're seeing in Washington.

BLITZER: All right, Marcia Kramer of WCBS-TV in New York. Thanks so much for joining us.

KRAMER: Thank you.

BLITZER: Thank you. And how is Hillary doing? I'll ask former Clinton White House adviser Paul Begala, a long Hillary supporter, and author Barbara Olson, one of Hillary's harshest critics.

Also, could those feed the shark dives only be whetting their appetites. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. We continue our focus now, how's Hillary doing? It depends, of course, who you ask. I'm joined now by Barbara Olson, a former federal prosecutor and congressional investigator, who applied those skills to a sharply critical book about Hillary Clinton, entitled "Hell to Pay."

Also in our Washington bureau, Paul Begala, who helped manage Bill Clinton's presidential bid, and later served as a key White House adviser. It goes without saying, he's a big admirer of Senator Clinton.

Thanks to both of you for joining us.

First of all, to you Barbara, this strategy now of Mrs. Clinton apparently coming out, going on the offensive against President Bush and his budget proposals. Is this a good strategy at this relatively early point in her senate career?

BARBARA OLSON, AUTHOR, "HELL TO PAY": Well, you know it's quintessential Hillary Clinton. I mean, we get a lot of criticism. It's really a party position that she's showing of hate and criticism, but I don't see a lot of solutions.

And it's interesting, if you go back in May, Hillary was interviewed by "The Poughkeepsie Journal." And she was not quite so critical of the new -- the surplus and giving some of it back.

And in fact, what Hillary was saying is that we ought to give some of it back, that we ought to sort have a stimulus to the economy. And so now, we have Hillary who's against it. She's clearly becoming the spokesperson for the party. We knew she would. We knew she'd come to the forefront.

But you have to look at what she's doing that's on the positive slide. Where are her solutions? She's very good at criticizing, but I don't think she's taking the Democratic party into a very positive area.

BLITZER: What about that, Paul Begala?

PAUL BEGALA, FORMER CLINTON WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: Well, truth be told, actually, if I could offer one criticism of Hillary Clinton as a Democrat is that she supported too many of Bush's nominees. She actually supported 97 percent of Bush's nominees.

Now that didn't include Ted Olson, the famous conservative attorney, who's now America's solicitor general, and happens to be married to another brilliant attorney who's on your show. But she supported 97 percent of the people Bush put up.

And in truth, among freshman senators, Hillary has authored or co-authored more legislation than any other freshman. She's a very solutions oriented person. She's been reaching across the aisle.

You know, she's co-authored legislation with Orrin Hatch, one of the great liberals of our time or John Ensign, who's a conservative Republican from Nevada. Kay Bailey Hutchison, who's a conservative Republican from my home state of Texas. So she's very much found her niche in the Senate, working toward solutions that are good for New York.

BLITZER: Barbara, I was going to say, you criticized Hillary Clinton long before she voted against confirmation of your husband as solicitor general?

OLSON: Well, I think that may have had something to do with it, but it's wonderful the way Paul uses the nice percentages because Hillary is voted against more Bush nominees than any other senator. She's on record there.

So 97 percent that are votes are there for people who receive unanimous Senate votes, but Hillary Clinton. That included other Justice Department officials. And I like about her legislation that Ms. Begala just talked about. Because of course, Hillary is for some new laws that we prevent presidents from doing what Bill Clinton did.

In fact, she's supporting a bill. She's one of the sponsors to make people register when they're trying do get presidents do favors and make presidents admit the money they get for their libraries. And of course, she's doing the equal rights amendment for women, a lot of her old base things that I had think will bring people along. But it's taking the Democratic party to the ultra left where she is. And perhaps Paul, too.

BEGALA: Only Barbara would sit there and tell us that equal rights for women is ultra left.

OLSON: Well, that amendment certainly was.

BEGALA: That's a mainstream position and actually our constitution would be far better with it. But what Hillary has done, so astonishing. Let me step back to your previous guest Marcia Kramer.

In case folks who are not from New York are watching, and I know there are a lot. I worked for Bill Clinton, as you mentioned, in the campaign. Marcia Kramer covered us in the New York primary.

She's one of the toughest political reporters in the business. She is the one who got my friend Bill Clinton to stumble and say, "I didn't inhale." So she's nobody cream puff, in case you think that this was just some kind of a patsy interview.

Hillary when toe to toe with Marcia, and by all accounts, did a terrific job. And as Marcia even said, she looks very relaxed, comfortable. I hope it's not sexist for me to say that she looked great. I mean, she's a total babe as well. So she's doing very well in the Senate right now. She's really found her niche and she's hitting her stride. And I'm really proud of her.

BLITZER: I was just going to say, Paul, but she's totally avoided, with the exception of appearing on "LARRY KING LIVE" with 11 or 12 other women senators, she's so far totally avoided virtually all the national television news media.

BEGALA: A very wise strategy. I've got nothing against the national media. Believe me, I do it all the time, as you know. But she's a senator from New York. And as she said to Marcia Kramer, they took a leap of faith with her.

She is new to the state. She needs to spend a lot more time, you know, frankly, in Poughkeepsie than in the CNN studios or the studios of the other major networks. So she's doing the right thing by catering.

Every day, every week, she is home in New York and she's doing interviews with the New York media. And that's where her attention lies. And that's where it ought to lie. If she were doing national interviews, then I dare say my friend Barbara would be saying that she was running for president. So good for her that she's being a New York senator first.

BLITZER: Barbara, I want to play for you an excerpt from what Mrs. Clinton said yesterday when she lashed out against President Bush's budget proposals. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

H. CLINTON: It is his budget. It is his tax cut. And it is therefore his responsibility as the president to give us a plan as to what we should do now that circumstances have so dramatically changed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: As we heard from our political analyst Ron Brownstein of "The L.A. Times," it seems the Democrats have a strategy to put her out front on this issue, to sort of remind Americans that the economy was pretty strong during the eight years of the Clinton administrations.

OLSON: Well, in the new CBO numbers, we have a $150 billion surplus. That's pretty strong. But the view is that they want to have more spending. And Hillary's a good person to put out there. She's all for spending, all for government money. She always has been.

That was her position when Clinton was Governor in Arkansas. It's been her position when she was first lady. T he difference in opinion is Hillary thinks a $150 billion surplus means that we ought to have more taxes to people. And it's a basic misunderstanding of what a surplus is.

We overpaid. It ought to go back to people. We ought to get the economy boosted by the money going back. The government should not have a party of huge surpluses. The government should run on budget. And the Democrats want to scare people by screaming Social Security and Medicare. And who better than Hillary Rodham Clinton?

BLITZER: The old fashion scare tactics of the Democrats, Paul Begala. You used to help formulate some of those tactics, didn't you?

BEGALA: Well, it's actually old-fashioned values and it's as old-fashioned as the bible. We're taught to honor thy father and they mother. And in political terms today, that means save Social Security.

Our president, the only one we have in a Supreme Court decision that Ted Olson argued, and I thought was really unfortunate, but he is the president appointed by the court, promised us again and again and again that he wouldn't raid the Social Security surplus.

Now he has. You know, all the hot movies this summer are sequels. It's "American Pie 2," and "Rush Hour 2." Now we have "read my lips 2." It's only natural that Hillary would speak out against it.

By the way, she was one of five senators yesterday who held a press conference, speaking about that. Because she's Hillary Clinton, of course, the media pick up on that. And that's just fine. I think it's good that she is standing up for senior citizens in her state who are seeing their Social Security trust fund being raided by George W. Bush, despite the fact he promised us he wouldn't do it.

OLSON: Well, the facts are different, Paul. And you know that. There's no raiding of the Social Security surplus. That's clearly the tactic. The Democrats have decided the way that they're going to win is to scare people again. Al Gore tried it.

BEGALA: And he won re-election.

[laughter].

OLSON: It didn't work. And so they're going to scare people. They're going to tell old people that Republicans are going to take their checks away. It's not true. It's not going to happen.

We do have a surplus. And you know what? There's not going to be more entitlement spending, which is really what the Democrats don't like, that Bush is going to say, "We're going to spend money, but at a reasonable pace." And we're going to let people have a little bit of their overpayment back.

BLITZER: All right, Paul Begala, quickly I want to ask you, there was a poll we did at CNN last month, which asked likely Democratic voters who they would support for the nomination in 2004 if Al Gore decides not to run. Look at these numbers. Hillary Clinton, 33 percent; Joe Lieberman, 15 percent; Dick Gephardt 15 percent, Bill Bradley, 13 percent.

She's still got had a strong base within the Democratic party.

BEGALA: Look, I think she'd be a great president. I think she'd be a great candidate. I would love to see that day. But I have to say, as someone who knows her and loves her, that she's not going to run. She's just not. And she is dead set on being the best senator she can be for New York.

She's got a six year, no cut contract from the people in New York. She understands, that again, as she said to Marcia, that this was a leap of faith. And she approaches this with, I think, a great deal of humility and a lot of honest, hard work. That's why she's a spending all her time tending to local needs and to New York needs. So I think it's very flattering. I'm sure she's flattered, but not particularly interested in that poll.

BLITZER: Barbara, we only have 10 seconds left. Do you think she's going to run in 2004?

OLSON: I think that as Bill Clinton said he wasn't going to for president, that she could be convinced. I agree with Paul. She works harder than anyone else. And don't forget, someone's got to be the vice president candidate. And Hillary would make a great vice president candidate also.

BLITZER: All right, Barbara Olson and Paul Begala, thanks for joining us to both of you.

BEGALA: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: Appreciate it very much.

Up next, Vicente Fox goes to Congress. I'll tell you how the Mexican president is trying to reach across a border divide. And a strange sight in the sky this morning. I'll tell you what the experts say it was.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. In other top stories, Mexican president Vicente Fox called for a swift immigration reform in an address to the U.S. Congress today. He said the U.S. and Mexico need to build greater trust as the basis for a new partnership. President Bush today called proposals to grant legal status to Mexicans now working in the United States, "an incredibly complex issue."

In the wake of recent shark attacks, Florida gaming officials want to ban scuba divers and snorkelers from feeding sharks. A public hearing and final a vote are scheduled for November.

This network is welcoming a new face to our CNN family. Veteran journalist Paula Zahn is joining us. She'll play a key role in new a morning show we're developing that will be based in New York City. Before joining CNN, Zahn worked at Fox News channel and anchored a morning show at CBS. I've known her for many years. Welcome aboard, Paula.

Tonight on the "Leading Edge," debris from a disintegrating Russian rocket created a spectacular show in the sky above the East coast this morning. The rocket body reentered the atmosphere over the Atlantic Ocean about 100 miles off Delaware. Experts say it probably burned up before any pieces could reach the ground.

The U.S. Justice Department says it won't seek to break up Microsoft because of antitrust violations. It's not clear what penalties the company might face, but Justice officials say they don't plan to interfere with the October 25 rollout of Microsoft's Windows XP system. Up next, I'll open our mailbag. Lots of reaction to our report last night on the Gary Condit's return to Congress. And lots of mixed views about our coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Time now to open our mailbag. Many of you reacted to our focus last night on Gary Condit's return to Congress.

Jerry from Bethlehem, Pennsylvania writes this. "Watching the Condit affair leaves me with a feeling that the U.S. Congress has become a pathetic institution."

Maura from Bay Village, Ohio writes about my interview with David Gergen and Leon Panetta and my description of them as gentlemen. "My comment, good to see you lined up with your own kind. Good to see gentlemen, period."

But Bill from Monterey, California has a very different view. "No more Condit. Your coverage of this matter is overkill. You look stupid and mean-spirited." Thanks, Bill, next time you have to tell us how you really feel.

Remember, I want to hear from you. Please e-mail me at Wolf@cnn.com. And you can read my daily online column and sign up for my e-mail previewing our nightly programs by going to my Web site, www.cnn.com/wolf.

Please stay with CNN throughout the night. Actress Anne Heche is Larry King's guest at the top of the hour. Up next, Greta Van Susteren. She's standing by to tell us what she has -- Greta.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST, CNN'S "THE POINT": Wolf, a U.S. senator under investigation. Subpoenas fly. Bookstores. Sound familiar? As well as an AP reporter had his phone records subpoenaed. Plus, a transsexual had a big problem trying to fly overseas to Britain. She joins us from London and she'll tell you what the problem was.

Wolf?

BLITZER: OK, can't wait to hear it. Thanks, Greta. Tomorrow night, we'll focus on the now HBO World War II series "Band of Brothers." Among my guests, author Stephen Ambrose. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer on Capitol Hill. "THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN" begins right now.

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