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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Military Options

Aired September 23, 2001 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Tonight on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, military options. As the U.S. deploys forces around the world, where's Osama bin Laden? We'll go live to the Pentagon. And I'll speak with the president's National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: The best defense is going to be a good offense, to go after these terrorists where they live.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: But that's not easily done in Afghanistan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: The most rugged terrain in the world that you can imagine, and of course an enemy that is ferocious, ferocious.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: I'll speak with a hero from another war, Senator John McCain.

Does the U.S. have an ally in the anti-Taliban Northern Alliance? We'll go live to CNN's Chris Burns in northern Afghanistan, and to CNN national security correspondent David Ensor who looks at the advantages and risks of such a partnership, as America weighs its military options.

BLITZER: Good evening. I'm Wolf Blitzer, reporting tonight from Washington.

We'll get to my interviews with Condoleezza Rice and John McCain shortly, but first let's check the latest developments.

Politicians joined hands with celebrities and other New Yorkers this afternoon at Yankee Stadium. Thousands gathered for a prayer service hosted by James Earl Jones and Oprah Winfrey.

The Federal Aviation Administration is grounding all crop dusting planes for at least one day, citing concerns about a possible chemical weapons attack. CNN has confirmed a search of a suspected terrorist hideout turned up a manual on operating crop dusters.

And the latest poll numbers on President Bush show an approval rating that's never been seen before -- 90 percent of Americans surveyed in the CNN -"USA Today"-Gallup poll say they approve of the way he's doing his job.

United States has been mobilizing significant forces and positioning them around the world, but the likeliest target is an elusive one. Afghanistan's ruling Taliban insist they don't know the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden or members of its al Qaeda group.

Let's go live to the Pentagon and CNN national correspondent Bob Franken. Bob, first of all, tell us about the latest deployments.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the deployments are coming in increments. We hear about a refueling wing. We hear about logistical forces that have been sent out. The defense secretary is making it clear, and he was on one of the talk shows to say, making clear that this is worldwide in scope. Of course, the focus has been on the region around Afghanistan, but what he says over and over is that the forces are being positioned pretty much everywhere on the globe.

So when the military options have to be decided that forces are in place so they can in fact demobilize the most efficient way. So it is not just the Persian Gulf, the Arabian Sea, et cetera, but everywhere. The United States is fanning out its military forces.

BLITZER: And Bob, as you know the -- there's some more tough talk coming from the Pentagon today toward the Taliban. Tell us about that.

FRANKEN: Well, the Taliban is now saying it has no idea where Osama bin Laden is, and the defense secretary came out and talked to reporters and he said while the United States doesn't know they do.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: No. I'm not confident that we will find him and use this fire power. Let's think of it this way. First of all, the fact is that the Taliban do know where the al Qaeda organization is, and the fact that they're saying they don't is simply not credible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRANKEN: And Wolf, of course there's so much maneuvering going on, so much that the United States has got to try and sift through so much, it has to decide whether it believes or not. Clearly, the defense secretary is saying he does not believe the Taliban leadership right now.

BLITZER: Any -- while I have you, Bob, any progress at all in terms of the reconstruction, the recovery effort outside the Pentagon over there? FRANKEN: Well, it goes on. As you know, this has been turned over now to the FBI, which assumes an investigation, but at the same time they continue to sift through trying to find the remains of the people who are missing, and officials tell us they probably never will find all of the people who are unaccounted for.

BLITZER: Bob Franken at the Pentagon. Thank you very much.

The anti-Taliban Northern Alliance, which controls a small part of Afghanistan says it's quite confident that Osama bin Laden is still in the country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABDULLAH ABDULLAH, NORTHERN ALLIANCE FOREIGN MINISTER: He is in southern part of Afghanistan, and most probably he is in Urosgan (ph) province. He has made lots of hiding places throughout the years in that province. I believe that he, alongside Mullah Omar, the leader of the Taliban, are both hiding in Urosgan (ph) province, which is a southern province of Afghanistan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The Northern Alliance says it has gone back on the offensive after the recent assassination of its leader. Let's go live now to CNN's Chris Burns. He joins us in northern Afghanistan.

First of all, Chris, tell us about the fighting that's going on right now.

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, that fighting is going on as we speak. For the last couple of hours, a barrage of tank fire going on from the Northern Alliance or the united front as it's formally known, they've been pounding away at Taliban positions for the last couple of days, and it sounds like they've resumed that pounding -- very fierce, almost one every 30 seconds that we have heard.

And so, they're very much concentrating on that front that is just north of Kabul. It's about 25 miles, 40 kilometers north of Kabul. Also fighting going on in five other provinces, three northern provinces, one in the east, one in the west. The Northern Alliance or the United Front claims to have taken several villages and towns, also to have taken 200 Taliban fighters prisoner and killed 60 others.

These are of course things that we can't confirm independently, but the Taliban at least is admitting that there is fighting going on in the north. The point being made is that these shots we're even hearing as we speak, the United Front wants to be heard around the world, especially in Washington. They want to be seen as a credible ally to Washington, not only in facing off with the Taliban, but also in tracking down Osama bin Laden.

That foreign minister, Abdullah Abdullah you just showed from the soundbite -- we spoke with him yesterday, and he says that he has had contacts -- there have been contacts with the United States, also with the Russians, a Russian military delegation he met with yesterday in neighboring Tajikistan.

This all indicates that there is some very strong support, or some strong contacts anyway with that Northern Alliance and the Northern Alliance and the international community. In fact, a source close to the United Front says that the Russians are selling at cut- rate prices selling ammunition, and perhaps some of that ammunition we're hearing being fired right now, Wolf.

BLITZER: Chris, is there any indication at all out there that the U.S. is providing any assistance to the Northern Alliance right now?

BURNS: Well, there was a report about a drone, an unmanned spy plane that was -- that the Taliban claims they shot down in an area of the fighting a couple of days ago. According to military sources, it does seem like it was a plane that was flying for the CIA. But it is unclear exactly how much information -- military information is being exchanged there.

But we do know that there is information that is being exchanged between Washington and the Northern Alliance. So, one could assume there could be some kind of military advice of some kind, also from the Russians -- ammunition, as I said, Wolf.

BLITZER: And as you know, Ahmed Shah Massoud, the leader of the Northern Alliance, was assassinated -- what -- two or three days before the World Trade Center bombing. How unified is the Northern Alliance right now?

BURNS: Well, that was seen of course as being a way to split and send in -- send the United Front and the Northern Alliance into disarray. Apparently, that has not happened. What you see across the countryside here in northern Afghanistan are black flags and pictures of Massoud. It seems to have been a rallying cry. And the so-called Lion of Pansher (ph) who faced off the Russians during the invasion of Afghanistan 20 years ago seems to -- the murder of the Lion of Pansher (ph) seems to have awakened a lot of other lions, those being his fighters in the field -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Chris Burns in northern Afghanistan. Stay safe over there. Thanks so much for joining us.

Meanwhile, intelligence experts from the United States and other countries have kept a close eye on Afghanistan's opposition movement for many years. The question now: Can the Northern Alliance be an effective ally for the United States? CNN national security correspondent David Ensor explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Afghanistan, the plot is thickening fast. There are spies and special forces personnel from a number of nations, knowledgeable sources say, in the northeast part of Afghanistan, which is under the control of the anti-Taliban Northern Alliance. One example: British officials told the "London Sunday Times" that one of their special military units was outside the capital Kabul when it was fired upon Friday by Taliban forces. The Northern Alliance has been fighting the Taliban for years. In the fight against Osama bin Laden, al Qaeda and their Taliban hosts, the Northern Alliance argues it is the best ally the U.S. could have.

HARON AMIN, NORTHERN ALLIANCE SPOKESMAN: We have the various resources such as languages, the ability to communicate, knowing the geography, knowing the terrain. We've fought battles in all of the -- most of the terrains in Afghanistan.

ENSOR: But while Defense Secretary Rumsfeld spoke last week of the potential for cooperating militarily with the Northern Alliance, administration officials on the Sunday talk shows put the emphasis instead on convincing the Taliban to turn over bin Laden.

BLITZER: Just to nail down the Northern Alliance, will the U.S. fund and provide military equipment to work with these groups to remove the Taliban from power?

RICE: Well, we're working with a number of possible options, a number of possible assets around the world, and clearly we are focused on how best to use those assets to get the Taliban to do what it needs to do.

ENSOR: Over the years the northern alliance has had military help from Russia and India, among others.

(on camera): But despite the obvious common interests, administration officials are wary of taking them on as overt U.S. allies. Washington hesitates to get too much involved in Afghanistan's murky politics.

(voice-over): After all, following the Russian's withdrawal from Afghanistan in the late '80s, anti-Taliban leaders did share power in Kabul for a few years. It did not go well.

ANATOLE LIEVEN, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT: The key reason for that mess was that complete and total failure to cooperate among themselves, and their constant tendency to in-fighting. Now maybe that's changed, but maybe it hasn't.

ENSOR: The military commander of the Northern Alliance, Ahmed Shah Massoud, was murdered by two Arabs posing as journalists just two days before the attacks on New York and Washington. U.S. officials suspect bin Laden's group in the killing.

At a memorial service in Virginia, Afghan exiles said if the U.S. would help, many Afghans would unify to overthrow the Taliban. And that could mean bin Laden and his lieutenants would have nowhere left to hide.

David Ensor, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER: And when we return, one of President Bush's closest aids talks about U.S. options. We'll hear from the National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice. And later, some observations from Senator John McCain about how the U.S. might combat such an elusive enemy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. President Bush and his aids continue to plan the war against terrorism. Earlier today, I spoke with the president's National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Dr. Rice, thank you once again for joining us. I know you've been very busy these last few weeks.

But how concerned should Americans be right now about additional terrorist attacks against them?

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, there's no doubt that Americans need to be vigilant. They need to be patient about the security measures that are there at airports, at borders.

We are in a very active campaign now. The FBI has thousands of agents out hunting down the perpetrators of this crime. We're getting very good cooperation from intelligence services and from law enforcement networks abroad.

The best offense here -- the best defense is going to be a good offense, to go after these terrorists where they live.

But, yes, we need to be vigilant. But as the president has said, what we don't want terrorists to do is change who we are. And so we are going to be very cognizant and aware of civil liberties.

RICE: We're going to be very cognizant and aware that just because people look a particular way, they should not be the subject of harassment either by the government or by their neighbors. It's important that we remain who we are. But it is a time to be vigilant.

BLITZER: When you say the best defense is a strong offense, does that mean that the president is ready to revise the executive order that's been in place for a couple decades, barring the U.S. from engaging in assassination of foreign leaders?

RICE: The United States is looking at all of the laws that we have on the books, all of the executive orders that we have. But I believe that the president believes that with the package that General Ashcroft is putting forward in the Congress, we will have what we need to do.

BLITZER: Law enforcement sources, intelligence sources have told me that their working assumption is that there are other Osama bin Laden operatives from the al Qaeda organization still at large in the United States right now. Is that a fair assumption? RICE: I think it is best to assume that there are certainly other operatives at large. We know now that this network has been borrowing in to the United States for several years, at least a couple of years. And so it would not be surprising if not everything has been routed out in the first 10 days.

BLITZER: As you know, the president issued a series of demands on the Taliban and Osama bin Laden, in effect, Thursday night in his address to Congress. The Taliban has rejected basically by saying, show us the proof, give us evidence that Osama bin Laden was behind this; in effect, rejecting the president's demand. What's next?

RICE: Well, the Taliban should recognize that this has a long history. This is September 11, but it is prior to September 11 also. We know that Osama bin Laden and his network, his al Qaeda network were behind the bombing of American embassies. Osama bin Laden was indicted for that. We know that they are associated with the bombing of the Cole.

So, to say give us evidence, at this point, is not helpful. And the president is not going to be deterred in acting in America's self- defense because the Taliban -- which by the way is not a government that seems to care very much about evidence when it summarily executes its own people -- the president is not going to be deterred in doing what he needs to do to defend the United States.

And this, Wolf, is self-defense. If you have any doubt about the degree to which this is self-defense, just look at those pictures from September 11.

BLITZER: Now, today, Taliban officials are saying Osama bin Laden is now missing in Afghanistan. What do you say about that?

RICE: I would say that the Taliban is not trustworthy in this regard, and I don't see that we believe there's any evidence of that.

BLITZER: Do you believe they know exactly where he is and they're protecting him?

RICE: Well, I think it's probably time that they demonstrate what they know about Osama bin Laden.

BLITZER: Well, assuming the Taliban does not change, what is the United States do next in Afghanistan?

RICE: Well, in fact, this campaign has already begun. The president, as is well known, will sign an executive order about financial networks and really squeezing the life's blood out of his organization. It will ultimately not be able to function if it cannot have access to money.

BLITZER: You're talking about the al Qaeda organization.

RICE: The al Qaeda organization, yes.

The president is also mobilizing international intelligence and law enforcement efforts around the world. There are people in this cell being rounded up in various parts of the world, not just in the United States. So the campaign has begun.

But as to the Taliban, the president made very clear the other night that he will act, but he will act at a time and place of his choosing. He will act when it is most effective and in the way that is most effective.

BLITZER: Will that include, assuming the Taliban defies the United States, with a move into Afghanistan to overthrow that regime?

RICE: The president is going to do what is most effective. And he has a number of options. There are a number of assets that we can use in getting to the Taliban and making it clear to the Taliban that they have a choice here. But the president is going to do this at a time of his choosing and not one minute before that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: President's National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice earlier today.

And is the United States getting entangled in another Vietnam- like conflict? I'll ask Arizona Senator and former POW John McCain when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. The tragic events of September 11 led to President Bush declaring what he called the war against terrorism. But the question many are now asking is this: What type of war will it become? I sat down earlier today with Arizona Senator John McCain.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: There are a lot of Americans out there who are concerned that the U.S. may be getting sucked into another Vietnam- like conflict, except this time in Afghanistan. Given your background, your experience, is that a serious concern?

MCCAIN: No. I think that there can be failures, because this is a very, very difficult -- probably the most difficult kinds of military operations that you could ever imagine. But I cannot imagine a Vietnam War scenario, because there's no way we're going to send a half a million men there, and we're going to be very judicious as to how we use force.

Look, I think that there may be people on the ground, but that would be for short periods of time, and that will be to carry out a specific mission.

Now, that mission may fail. And that's what the president, I think, was trying to tell us. There may be failures and casualties, but there's no scenario where we would have a half a million Americans, a return to the draft, the kind of scenario we had in the Vietnam War. BLITZER: What happens if the Taliban continues to defy President Bush's demands, refuses to hand over Osama bin Laden?

MCCAIN: Then I think we develop, which I know they're planning on now, special operations, using our highly trained and specialized special ops -- special forces, Delta Force, SEALs, those kinds of people that you can insert in on the ground for a short period of time, and then pull them out.

But, again, I would urge everyone who's watching to look at a map of the area. And that'll give you some idea of the challenge we face. Surrounded generally by countries that are not our friends. A thousand miles from the water, which means our aircraft carriers are going to have to go the longest kinds of missions for our planes off of carriers. The most rugged terrain in the world that you can imagine. And, of course, an enemy that is ferocious, ferocious: defeated the Russians and defeated the British a couple hundred years ago.

So the challenges are enormous, but we have the technical, military capabilities and the issue is, as the president said in his inspirational speech, we have to be patient.

BLITZER: After Vietnam, a lot of military officers said they want a very defined mission.

MCCAIN: Yes.

BLITZER: Is there a defined mission right now?

MCCAIN: I think there is in this respect: that we have to eradicate the threat to the United States of America from terrorist attacks.

Now we may never be able to totally eradicate it, but I am convinced that we will be able to reduce it to a minimal kind of challenge. And one way is to get them out on the run.

They have been able to do a lot of these things -- media reports as many as 11,000 were trained in camps in Afghanistan. That's because they had sanctuary, they had safe harbor. When you don't have safe harbor, and you get on the run, it's a lot harder to carry out these kinds of operations.

And we're going to go after the money, we're going to go after a lot of the things that they've been able to get away with in the past.

But yes, it's doable, and the goal is to reduce, if not completely eliminate, the threat to Americans' lives.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Senator John McCain earlier today, and when we come back, I'll recap the latest developments. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Before we leave you, here's a quick recap of the latest developments of America's new war. Thousands of people of all faiths gathered for a prayer service at New York's Yankee Stadium today. At one point, Mayor Rudy Giuliani told the crowd "our skyline will rise again."

A group that's been fighting the Taliban says it's confident Osama bin Laden is still in Afghanistan. The Northern Alliance says bin Laden is probably in the southern part of the country.

And Secretary of State Colin Powell says the world will soon see compelling evidence that bin Laden's al Qaeda organization is responsible for the terrorist attacks.

That's all the time we have tonight. Please stay with CNN throughout the evening for continuing coverage of America's new war. Tomorrow night, join me one hour earlier at our new starting time, 7:00 p.m. Eastern, for a full hour, as we focus on America's military options.

Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN" begins right now.

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