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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

America's New War: Target Terrorism

Aired September 28, 2001 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, "Target Terrorism": U.S. special operations forces have been on the ground in Afghanistan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Sometimes people will be able to see what we do on the television screens. Other times, the American people won't be able to see what we're doing. But make no mistake about it: We're in hot pursuit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: We'll go live to the White House and the Pentagon, and I'll speak live with retired General Donald Shepperd.

Pakistan is a vital ally in the anti-terror campaign, but can it stay the course? We'll go to Islamabad.

Will Americans stay the course? We'll look at the brand-new CNN/"TIME" poll, and I'll speak live with Senators Evan Bayh and Kay Bailey Hutchison.

A window into an unstable region: We'll visit an arms bazaar in Turkey. We'll go to a former Soviet air base in Afghanistan, which could become crucial to the U.S. And we'll take you aboard a guided missile destroyer, as the U.S. targets terrorism.

Good evening to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting tonight from Washington.

We'll get to my interviews with Senators Bayh and Hutchison shortly, but first here are the latest developments in America's new war against terrorism.

Authorities say they found copies of a letter giving instructions to the hijackers. Attorney General John Ashcroft says it's clear evidence linking all the suspects. Copies were found at the Pennsylvania crash site, in a bag at Boston and in a vehicle at Dulles Airport outside Washington used by the suspects.

Government sources tell CNN the attacks were conceived and funded in England, Germany and the United Arab Emirates. The sources also say some of the suspects had ties to the al Qaeda terror network. In London, extradition proceedings are under way for an Algerian pilot. U.S. investigators suspect Lofti Raissi helped train the hijackers to fly at an American flight school.

Two more men are under arrest, accused of fraudulently getting licenses to drive hazardous material trucks in the United States. They're the last of 20 Middle Eastern men the FBI was looking for.

And the Reverend Jesse Jackson is refusing an invitation from the Taliban to negotiate a peace deal. Jackson was also asked to help free eight Western aid workers charged with trying to convert Muslims to Christianity in Afghanistan.

CNN has confirmed U.S. special operations have been on the ground in Afghanistan in recent days.

For more on what they may be up to, let's go live to CNN military correspondent Jamie Mcintyre.

Jamie, what are you hearing?

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the Pentagon isn't talking about it at all, but nevertheless, two, at least two senior U.S. officials have confirmed to CNN that U.S. special forces have been in and out of Afghanistan. What they're doing, reconnaissance as the United States tries to tighten the noose around Osama bin Laden.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice-over): U.S. officials tell CNN small numbers of American and British specials forces have conducted reconnaissance forays into Afghanistan to pave the way for future military action aimed at Osama bin Laden and his top lieutenants. Neither the Pentagon nor the White House are confirming the reports.

BUSH: Sometimes people will be able to see what we do on the television screens. Other times, the American people won't be able to see what we're doing. But make no mistake about it, we're in hot pursuit.

MCINTYRE: Sources say elite U.S. and British commandos are not yet hunting bin Laden, who the U.S. believes is still in Afghanistan, perhaps mere Kandahar, headquarters of the Taliban. Instead, sources indicate they have been scouting the terrain, spotting landing zones and filling in intelligence gaps.

RET. MAJ. GEN. DONALD SHEPPERD, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: They get to know the country, they get to know the infrastructure, where the bridges are, the communications, the water, all of those types of things.

MCINTYRE: As this commercial satellite photograph of Kandahar indicates, clear skies have provided excellent conditions for spy planes and satellites, and Pentagon sources say the U.S. has very high quality overhead imagery as it prepares for commando raids. Sources also say the Pentagon has identified high-value targets that can be hit from the air.

GEN. HUGH SHELTON, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: We know what their centers of gravity are. Some of those can be attacked by the other elements of our government. Some can be attacked by us.

MCINTYRE: In the immediate aftermath of the September 11th attacks, sources also say Pentagon planners drew up a quick-strike option that would have sent cruise missiles into Afghanistan, but sources say it was quickly rejected as shooting from the hip.

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: We're not leaping into this. We're moving into it in a measured way.

MCINTYRE: Pentagon sources say a similar commando raid was considered before the August 1998 cruise missile strike on bin Laden's camps in Afghanistan, but at the time it was considered too risky.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: And sources say the Pentagon is also drawing up plans for a possible humanitarian air drop of food and medical supplies to Afghanistan in an effort to win the hearts and minds of the Afghan people -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Jamie, as you know, CNN policy is not to report the specifics of imminent military operations, but what can you tell us about limited operations? What's the value of these kinds of missions?

MCINTYRE: Well, the United States has always said the key to operating against Osama bin Laden is intelligence, and part of this is just the kind of surveys that would normally be done before any military operation.

You may recall that before the 1991 Persian Gulf War, that there were special forces, teams that actually went inside Iraq to scout positions and make sure that the maps they have match up, to take GPS coordinate readings, to check on current conditions, look for enemy troop locations, that type of thing. And that's exactly what's going on here. The United States wants to make sure that it has a solid base of intelligence, that all of its information is up to date before it makes any military moves in Afghanistan.

BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon, thank you very much.

The United States meanwhile got a boost from an important ally today while showing a change of heart toward a recent adversary. Let's go to live to CNN White House correspondent Kelly Wallace.

What's happening, Kelly, first of all, on the president's diplomatic front?

KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, we're seeing a number of diplomatic developments, more coalition building. We're also seeing what some countries are getting in return for their cooperation. We have learned President Bush offering $50 million in assistance to Pakistan: one source telling us this is because this country is helping in taking a stand against terrorism. Also $25 million earmarked today to deal with the tens of thousands of refugees fleeing Afghanistan, fearing a U.S.-led attack.

And then, of course, we saw the president earlier today announcing that he had signed into law a new free-trade agreement between the U.S. and Jordan. And the president meeting with King Abdullah of Jordan.

The president using this meeting to do a couple of things: No. 1, to salute Jordan for its cooperation. The Jordanian king pledging full, unequivocal support in this campaign against terrorism. The president also reiterating that this is a campaign against terrorism and not a campaign against Islam. And then he reiterated a message he has been sending almost every day, that there will be no negotiations with Afghanistan's ruling Taliban militia. Mr. Bush saying it's time for action, not words.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: There's no negotiations with the Taliban. They heard what I said. And now they can act. And it's not just Mr. bin laden that we expect to see and brought to justice. It's everybody associated with his organization that's in Afghanistan, and not only those directly associated with Mr. bin Laden, any terrorist that is housed and fed in Afghanistan needs to be handed over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: And when asked if this means there is no room for diplomacy, Ari Fleischer, the president's spokesman, saying that is correct.

Wolf, the president spending the weekend at the presidential retreat at Camp David. He will be strategizing with National Security Council staff by video-tele conference tomorrow -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Kelly, something very interesting happened in New York, as you know, at the United Nations. The U.N. lifted sanctions against Sudan without the United States not opposing that decision.

What's going on?

WALLACE: Exactly. The U.S. definitely could have blocked the lifting of those sanctions. Instead, it abstained from the vote. The sanctions are basically for the country's refusal to turn over suspects connected with the 1995 assassination attempt on the life of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak. Well, Secretary of State Colin Powell, asked about this late today, indicating that he said the country, the Sudan, has had a, quote, "change of attitude," and that the country has been helpful with the United States in its campaign against terrorism following the September 11 attacks.

Wolf, very interesting, because the Sudan is one of the countries on the list of nations that the U.S. accuses of sponsoring terrorism. And also, as you know, and as Jamie mentioned in his report, the U.S. launching military strikes against targets in the Sudan and in Afghanistan back in 1998, believing those targets linked to Osama bin Laden. So very interesting.

But another example of how this nation is reaching out to very non-traditional allies and what some of those countries are getting in return -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Kelly Wallace at the White House, what a difference three years make. Thank you very much.

Meanwhile, the U.S. government is warning Americans worldwide that the danger has not passed.

Let's go live to CNN State Department correspondent Andrea Koppel. She has news -- Andrea.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, for the second time in as many weeks, the State Department tonight is warning Americans around the world to be on alert. There have been stepped up threats from Osama bin Laden's network, from his followers. They say that they're threatening American citizens and U.S. interests overseas. The State Department saying it is deeply concerned about the security of Americans. There have been things like anti-American demonstrations outside various U.S. embassies. They also say that in countries, for instance, like Indonesia they haven't gotten adequate protection, they feel, for American citizens.

And so they want American citizens who are thinking of traveling to either log on to the State Department Web site to see what the latest is, or if they are already overseas, they need to call the U.S. embassy or consulate and check on the status.

That said, a senior State Department official I just spoke with said that there is no credible or specific threat. He said that this is not impending doom. There's nothing that happened today that is different, let's say, from what happened a week ago. But the department felt it was important to reiterate that these, Wolf, are very uncertain times.

BLITZER: Indeed they are. Andrea Koppel at the State Department, and once again, thank you very much.

Pakistan, which the United States views as a key partner in this new anti-terror campaign, has tried again to persuade Afghanistan's rulers to hand over Osama bin Laden. Earlier I spoke with CNN's Christiane Amanpour in Islamabad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Christiane, what do we know about this Pakistani delegation that's met once again with the Taliban leadership?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's headed by the head of Pakistan's intelligence service, who headed the previous delegation, and it also for the first time includes Moslem clerics from Pakistan. Now we are told by a senior Taliban official, who we reached by telephone, that this delegation apparently failed and that they don't expect anymore such missions, although the Pakistanis tell us that they are not closing the door. We haven't been briefed on the details of this mission. The delegation is going to be back here tonight, but we are awaiting a briefing from them.

Pakistani officials told us that they were going to try to again impress on the Taliban the very serious nature of the crisis they face and the very critical choices and decisions they had to make. In addition they were going to try, as a gesture of good will, to get the Taliban to at least release those eight international aid workers who are being held and in fact who are on trial in Kabul in Afghanistan for allegedly spreading Christianity.

BLITZER: So at this point, Christiane, just to be precise, the Taliban leadership is at least acknowledging that they have some communications with Osama bin Laden, because, as you know, last weekend they were saying he was missing, they didn't know where he was.

AMANPOUR: Well, they're not really acknowledging that. They have said that a courier delivered this edict from the clerics, which said basically that Osama bin Laden should be asked to leave the country. Now there's been a huge amount of confusion and conflicting statements coming out over the last week, 10 days from various Taliban officials, both here and in Afghanistan. But the bottom line again is that they say they have delivered the message by courier.

BLITZER: All right. Now, on this Friday, another series of demonstrations in Pakistan. What were they all about?

AMANPOUR: Well, essentially, it did not materialize as the opponents of this government here in Pakistan hoped it would. These demonstrations are held by the vocal minority here who mostly comprise the hard-line Islamic parties and who are against the president of Pakistan's decision to stand with the international coalition. They have called on two Fridays now for mass demonstrations, a huge general strike, and a big protest around the country. But this again has failed to materialize. Indeed today's protest, while strong and spirited and noisy and loud, were not nearly as big as last week's protests.

So this clearly is going to be seen by the Pakistani government as a success and as another test of public opinion at this juncture.

BLITZER: And finally, Christiane, the whole world is watching this emerging refugee crisis that's exploding from Afghanistan. How serious of a problem does it really appear to be?

AMANPOUR: Well, it appears to be very serious, because the issue is not just refugees seeking shelter. The issue is almost on the brink of starvation inside Afghanistan, according to U.N. officials, of potentially millions of people there. They say it could be one of the biggest disasters in terms of humanitarian terms in a long, long time.

Essentially, this very long drought is causing great hunger and potential pre-famine conditions the longer this lasts. They are appealing for all sorts of aid, millions of dollars they need, and they're again appealing for the Pakistani government to allow people in: something like 10,000 to 20,000 have come in, in the last two weeks. Pakistan not saying it will open its borders yet, but that it will give shelter and refuge to those who manage to come over illegally.

BLITZER: Christiane Amanpour in Islamabad, thank you very much.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And this interesting twist, a former Soviet air base may be put in use as a staging ground for U.S. military operations in Afghanistan. Right now it's a battleground for Taliban and anti- Taliban forces.

CNN's Chris Burns has been to the Bagram Air Base and has this report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We creep inside the air base with Northern Alliance fighters: too dangerous to drive that close to a front line that runs through it. Now a shattered remnant, it was once the center of Soviet military might in Afghanistan. Some experts say the Americans could now use it for operations against terrorist camps.

The base once backed as many as 100,000 Soviet troops, who tried but failed to subdue Western-backed anti-communist insurgents from 1979 to 1989.

Tom Carew was a British special forces agent working in Afghanistan at the time with rebels like the late Commander Massoud.

TOM CAREW, FORMER BRITISH SPECIAL FORCES: Bagram airport actually was the lifeline of the Soviet army. When Massoud closed the Salang Highway, they had to fly everything in and everything came into Bagram.

BURNS: Factional fighting after the Soviets left reduced the base and the last remaining MiG fighter jets to ruin. Alliance fighters hold the control tower and runway. They face off with Taliban forces dug in across the airstrip.

(on camera): Anyone wanting to use this base again would have to control the mountains around it. The Taliban hold both the mountains behind me and on the other side of the valley. In fact, the Taliban overran this base three times in the last five years.

(voice-over): The Northern Alliance commander here insists it would be different this time. His ragtag band of fighters, if backed by U.S. forces, could secure the entire base in 24 hours, he says.

"We are a little bit concerned about the south and southeast of the base, where the Taliban are." That includes the mountains above. Still, the Soviets ran the base despite Mujihadeen fighters holding the heights: factors that analysts and strategists will have to take into account if the U.S. were to seize the base, a base that now lies in the middle of a stalemated war.

Chris Burns, CNN, Bagram, Afghanistan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: They've already been inside Afghanistan. We'll look at the role U.S. special operations forces may play in any upcoming conflict there. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. As we've heard, a senior U.S. official confirms U.S. and British special operations forces have been on the ground in Afghanistan. Let's get some perspective on their role in this conflict. Joining me now, CNN military analyst, retired Air Force Major General Donald Shepperd.

General, what's your interpretation of this latest development?

SHEPPERD: My interpretation is it's no surprise, Wolf. This is standard military doctrine. Any time, in these days, that you have military operations, the special forces are there and they've already been there before hostilities start.

We have experts in these areas that maintain expertise and contacts, exercise with indigenous forces. This is no surprise to anyone in the military.

BLITZER: We heard mostly it's reconnaissance, intelligence gathering. Is that your assessment, too?

SHEPPERD: That's part of it. That's part of it. They're also listening, they're watching, they're establishing patterns and that type of thing.

Our special forces atrophied in the '60s and '70s. Then when Desert One came, the debacle at Desert One, we really got serious. In the last 10 years, we have gotten very, very good in joint operations throughout the special forces area.

BLITZER: Desert One was the ill-fated U.S. hostage rescue operation in the deserts of Iran in 1980. Obviously, that failed.

And since then, you say U.S. special operations forces have gotten much better.

SHEPPERD: They've gotten a lot better: a lot more practice, a lot better equipment. We're very serious about that. And we've got 20,000 to 30,000 of them, depending on how you count, from all the services. They're very good.

BLITZER: How good are the British special forces?

SHEPPERD: They're very good. They've been good a long time. They call us the Johnny Come Latelys, if you will. Our people reject that. They say that we've gotten good and we've surpassed everyone else. I don't know the truth, but they're all very good. It's a special skill. It requires a lot of practice.

BLITZER: In your assessment -- obviously none of us knows precisely what's happening on the ground right now -- but how dangerous of a mission is this for these forces who may be introduced into the region?

SHEPPERD: It's very dangerous. That's what these people do: They love it. They're the James Bonds and the ninjas of the military out there.

They operate all the way from one-man teams to small teams, and then they come together in larger operations as well.

But it's very, very dangerous. It's easy to get them in. You've got to be careful about getting them out. We don't send people on suicide missions.

BLITZER: You know, Edward Luttwak, who's a well-known military strategist here in Washington, he wrote in "The Los Angeles Times" this. And we'll put it up on the screen.

"Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda, a loose network rather than a conventional organization, presents no high-value targets. Its headquarters are bin Laden himself with his assistants wherever they happen to be as they move about. Its supply depots are village houses, its training camps are open fields or in foreign countries far away, such as U.S. flight schools."

What does that mean for special operations forces when you hear a description like that?

SHEPPERD: It's a scary description. Ed Luttwak is a good friend of mine and it's a little overstated.

If you're any kind of military force, you have to have communications, you have to have supplies, you have to mass your men at a point of attack. All those provide lucrative targets, and that's what special forces do along with satellites and that type of thing: is get that pattern down, find out where this stuff is, so when you launch military action, you can do it meaningfully with the right weapons.

BLITZER: The key is good intelligence right now.

SHEPPERD: Absolutely, absolutely.

BLITZER: And it's not just satellites and the electronic intercepts.

SHEPPERD: No. BLITZER: It's on the ground, what they call human intelligence.

SHEPPERD: It is, and we've had our human intelligence decimated over the last 30 years. And it takes a long time to rebuild it. We're trying to do that, and special forces is a part of that: going to the area, knowing it, getting native language speakers, establishing relationships with the militaries and the partisan groups in the area. That's what they do.

BLITZER: Major General Donald Shepperd, retired U.S. Air Force, thank you very much.

And coming up, the United States says it's making a long-term commitment to fight terrorism. We'll look back at another lengthy battle which tested American resolve.

And a check of the numbers: Is the average American satisfied with President Bush's response so far?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. While there's bipartisan support for a war against terrorism, are politicians and the public ready for a lengthy battle? CNN's senior political analyst Bill Schneider joins us now with a look at another protracted conflict.

What's going on?

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Wolf, will Americans support a costly long-term conflict with no definitive outcome in the foreseeable future? They have before.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER: The closest analogy to the war on terrorism may be the Cold War. In March 1947, President Truman declared that the U.S. was willing to assume the burden of leading the free world in the struggle against communism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAROLD TRUMAN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... the critical nature of the situations in Europe....

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHNEIDER: The enemy was an "ism," then communism, now terrorism. The world was divided, like now.

BUSH: Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists.

SCHNEIDER: Now it's the terrorist threat. Then it was the nuclear threat.

The closest parallel to the fear Americans have felt over the past three weeks was the Cuban missile crisis of 1962, when the country was on the brink of nuclear war.

The Cold War was bipartisan. It originated with Harry Truman and was sustained by Dwight Eisenhower, who repudiated his party's isolationist tradition.

It became controversial when actual shooting broke out: first in Korea and later in Vietnam. And Americans expressed a deep distaste for fighting wars with limited political objectives.

The Cold War taught the U.S. some valuable lessons, which are being applied now to America's new war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The question is, are you a member...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHNEIDER: In the early days of the Cold War, Americans were obsessed with the enemy within. This time, President Bush said...

BUSH: I ask you to uphold the values of America and remember why so many have come here.

SCHNEIDER: The early years of the Cold War were marked by the unsubtle and inflexible diplomacy of John Foster Dulles. The Bush administration seems to understand that the war on terrorism will be fought in a complex world of shifting allegiances.

RUMSFELD: We will evolving coalitions that will evolve and change over time.

SCHNEIDER: In the end communism collapsed, owing in no small measure to the relentlessness of U.S. opposition.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALD REAGAN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHNEIDER: For President Bush, the war on terrorism is his generation's call to arms.

BUSH: We have found our mission and our moment.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER: When the Cold War began, a lot of people doubted that Americans would have the stomach for a costly global struggle with no definitive outcome for the foreseeable future, but the country sacrificed and endured for 45 years.

BLITZER: Forty-five years, let's hope that -- 45 years, that's a long time. Let's hope this war doesn't take that long. Obviously, Bill, there's a new CNN-"TIME" magazine poll that's just out. What are Americans' expectations about this new war?

SCHNEIDER: They expect it to be long and difficult. They expect high casualties, and they expect the United States to win. That's what a majority of Americans, 56 percent told us. Fewer than a quarter expect a quick U.S. victory with few casualties, and only 10 percent believe the U.S. will have to withdraw without a victory.

The public is fully aware that this will not be another Gulf War, but they don't expect it to be another Vietnam War either.

BLITZER: Is the president, according to this latest poll, feeling any pressure to get it going, to begin military action?

SCHNEIDER: I'd put it this way: Americans are hawkish, but they are not trigger-happy. Three-quarters of Americans endorse what the president is doing, they say that his response has been just right. Only 17 percent say the president has not been strong enough, and that number has been dropping over the past two weeks. The American public is very patient. Only a quarter wants the U.S. to strike back in the next few weeks. Most Americans say they're willing to wait a month, two months, even longer.

BLITZER: Finally, Bill, how secure, how safe do Americans feel right now?

SCHNEIDER: They feel that there's going to be another terrorist attack, particularly if the United States takes military action. What kind of attack do Americans expect? Three-quarters expect a bomb carried in a car or a truck. Press reports have made Americans fearful of chemical or biological weapons. A quarter expect there could be a nuclear attack.

What's interesting is that fewer than one in five think there will be another airplane attack like the one on September 11. Most Americans expect a new attack if the United States retaliates, and even more say there will be another terrorist attack if the United States does not retaliate.

BLITZER: Bill Schneider, our senior political analyst, thank you once again for those numbers.

And up next, they both have ideas about how to fight back against terrorism. I'm speak live with Senators Evan Bayh and Kay Bailey Hutchison. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Here are the latest developments: Authorities in New York now estimate it could take up to a year and $7 billion to clear away the debris. Materials driven deep into the ground at the World Trade Center site are complicating the removal process.

A senior U.S. official tells CNN, U.S. and British special forces have conducted operations inside the borders of Afghanistan in the past few days. The White House remains mum, saying only the war against terrorism will be waged both publicly and privately.

President Bush has freed up $25 million to help refugees fleeing Afghanistan. He says it's in the national interest to meet the urgent need. The United Nations says 7.5 million people will likely be caught up in the refugee crisis.

The American people are predicting a long war against terrorism. Do they have the staying power to see it through? Joining me now, two influential United States senators -- Indiana Democrat Evan Bayh, he serves on the Intelligence Committee and chairs a banking panel on international finance, the post he wants to use to cut off funding for terror groups. He's in our Washington bureau. And as a ranking member of the Aviation Subcommittee, Texas Republican Kay Bailey Hutchison has called for tougher airport security and more air marshals. She's in our Dallas bureau.

Thanks to both of you for joining us, senators. And let me begin with you, Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison, how secure should Americans feel right now?

SEN. KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON (R), TEXAS: When they are flying, I think aviation security is just great leaps beyond where it was September 10 of 2001. We have air marshals in the air now, detailees from other services, law enforcement agencies, the screeners are doing a better job. I think that flying is very safe now.

BLITZER: Do you agree with that, Senator Bayh, that Americans can just simply go aboard planes and fly wherever they want without much concern?

SEN. EVAN BAYH (D-IN), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: I do, Wolf. I think it's very safe traveling domestically these days. I think we are focusing very intently on what we can do to make it even more secure. But I think your viewers should feel very comfortable going to airports, getting on planes and traveling to their destinations.

BLITZER: You know, the State Department only tonight, Senator Bayh, issued another worldwide travel alert. You don't have the same feelings about traveling internationally, do you?

BAYH: Well, Americans abroad at this particular moment need to be on guard. I think there is an unusually heightened risk during this particular period, but I wouldn't apply that to the domestic situation whatsoever. And I'm not sure internationally it applies to air travel so much as it does just being an American abroad these days, when there are people out to hurt anyone, including innocent civilians just traveling abroad.

BLITZER: You agree with that assessment, Senator Hutchison?

HUTCHISON: Well, I think certainly, the State Department has said that an American abroad should be very, very careful. You know these people have targeted Americans specifically. So I would certainly be on my guard if I were overseas.

BLITZER: Senator Hutchison, why did it take the terrible terror attacks of September 11 for the U.S. government, in effect, the president to come up with this concept of a homeland defense secretary?

HUTCHISON: Well, I think we all knew that there were terrorist attacks that were at random, but I don't think anyone envisioned the comprehensiveness of this operation and the numbers of casualties that we have seen. And I also, Wolf, think that we can't be the general that fights the last war. We are beefing up aviation security, we must do that so people will go back to flying. But now I think we have to look at other terrorist threats in our country. And I think that is why you need the homeland security agency to look at the other ways that terrorists could harm Americans.

BLITZER: Senator Bayh, you are on the Intelligence Committee, how concerned should the administration be about this coalition it's putting together, if the U.S. were to expand its attacks, let's say, beyond Afghanistan?

BAYH: Well, we are looking at a continuum of action, Wolf. I think the coalition they have assembled will hold together very well in terms of going after bin Laden and his network. If we seek to replace the regime in Afghanistan so that they will no longer harbor terrorists, then obviously Pakistan may have some trouble with that. And if you go beyond that, to focus on Iraq, for example, than some of the other Arab states may begin to have some problems.

But, you know, we need to do what's in our interest, to promote American security, to promote the world security, and take this one step at a time. And I think we will bring most of the coalition along with us, as long as we have a reasonable case to make.

BLITZER: As you know, Senator Hutchison, today the United Nations lifted sanctions against Sudan, a nation that U.S. bombed only three years ago after the East Africa terrorist attacks over there. The United Nations passed this lifting of sanctions, and the U.S. went along with it.

I want you to listen to what the State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said today about this decision.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD BOUCHER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: Over the last year we have had a dialogue about terrorism with the government of Sudan. We feel like we have made concrete progress in that dialogue. And in the last few weeks since the attacks in New York and Washington, we have had some serious discussions with the government of Sudan about ways to combat terrorism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: As you know, Sudan is still on the list of countries that the State Department says officially supports and harbors terrorism. Are you comfortable with this decision?

HUTCHISON: Wolf, I wouldn't second-guess any decision that our country is making now with regard to sanctions, because a lot of countries are doing different things, they may be doing things behind the scenes. If we are getting cooperation in the fight against terrorism, it may come from very unusual sources, but I think we have to go with those sources, which we have not done before.

And that is one of the reasons that our intelligence capabilities have fallen so far short. I think we've got to wipe all the rules away, and say who is with us now and work with the people who do want to help wipe out terrorism in their own countries, as well as in ours.

BLITZER: Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison and Senator Evan Bayh, thanks to both of you for joining us. We appreciate it very much.

BAYH: Thank you, Wolf.

HUTCHISON: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you.

And up next, for the U.S. military, routine training exercises are taking on more urgency. Coming up, we'll take you aboard the USS Higgins, as the crew prepares for battle.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. All branches of the U.S. military are getting battle ready as America targets terrorism. Sailors from the U.S. Navy are conducting training aboard the USS Higgins, off San Diego. And that is where we find CNN national correspondent Frank Buckley. Frank, what's going on over there?

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, we are finally coming back into San Diego Bay, after witnessing throughout the day the predeployment training of the USS Higgins, here off the coast of San Diego. We have been able to look inside and be inside the combat information center and watch as various training drills were being conducted.

But to give you a sense of how real the training is, and how real the situation that the military faces is, we can show you right here, just on the wing here of the bridge, that we have a sailor who is manning a .60-caliber weapon here.

And just off the side here, if we could just look off the side of the ship, you can see as we are entering and about to pass under the Coronado Bridge, you might be able to see that small boat there. That is an armed group of U.S. Navy sailors who have been very aggressively going about in front of the ship here as we enter the bay and making sure that there is no traffic, any pleasure craft or commercial traffic, approaching this U.S. naval warship. The new regulations in effect here now that no pleasure craft are to approach within 500 yards of a U.S. naval warship since the terror attacks back East.

We are going to take you inside right now into the pilot house, into the bridge, and we would like to introduce to you the CO of this vessel, Commander Bill Ault. Thank you very much, sir, for spending so much time with us today. Again, we have witnessed now as we're coming back into the bay that there are aggressive measure being taken to make sure that you protect this vessel. Tell us how that has come into effect since the terror attacks.

CMDR. BILL AULT, COMMANDING OFFICER: Well, the biggest thing that has happened is the Coast Guard has established a 500-yard exclusion zone around all naval vessels. And we use our boats and Coast Guard vessels and also other Navy security boats to make sure that is adhered to.

I will say that the civilian boating community has been extremely cooperative, and we certainly appreciate that. And we take all prudent measures under this situation to protect the ship.

BUCKLEY: This is a guided missile destroyer, much like the USS Cole. And we have seen that the USS Cole was attacked in October of 2000, 17 U.S. sailors lost their lives. How has that affected your training, and how you handle these kinds of situation, where you come in close contact with other craft?

AULT: Well, certainly, one of the biggest challenges when you are conducting training is putting a purpose behind it, and certainly the attack on the Cole has done just that, and especially in the protection arena, where, you know, my sailors understand exactly what can happen to a ship if we let our guard down. So, just stay focused us quite a bit, to make sure our training is hitting the mark.

BUCKLEY: We see on your hat it says, "the USS Higgins." The namesake of this ship, Colonel William Rich Higgins, the Marine Corps colonel, who was kidnapped, believed kidnapped by Hezbollah in Lebanon and killed in the late 1980s. He is the namesake of this ship. How does that affect your approach and those -- morale and your mission here on the ship?

AULT: Well, certainly, through a close association with Colonel Higgins' widow Robin, his spirit is really kept alive on the ship. She visited us just September 8, and maintains close contact with us, and we certainly appreciate that, having the ship named after a contemporary and someone whose story we are all familiar with. And certainly, doing his memory proud is something that every sailor on board carries with him.

BUCKLEY: We know that when you do predeployment trainings, that they are always taken seriously, but given the current world situation, does that give you more focus? How does that change your approach to training?

AULT: Well, it doesn't change our approach, but you hit it with the focus; our focus has certainly been narrowed as far as taking care of the task at hand and understanding that all this training is going to pay off for us, when the time comes for us to carry out the national tasking, and I think every sailor has redoubled his or her efforts to make sure that they are ready to do their duty when the time comes.

BUCKLEY: Commander Bill Ault of the USS Higgins, thank you again, sir, for letting us stay on board throughout the day.

Coming back into San Diego Bay now, Wolf. These sailors will be back with their friends and family in time for dinner here on the West Coast -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you very much, Frank Buckley, and thank Commander Ault for us as well. Appreciate it very much.

Up next, an international arms fair takes on new significance in the wake of September 11. We will look at who is buying what at this giant weapons bazaar. Stay with us.

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BLITZER: Welcome back. Curfews remain in effect in parts of India, where violent protests erupted following a crackdown on an Islamic student group allegedly linked to al Qaeda. More than 200 people, including some of the group's leaders, have been arrested. At least four people were killed in clashes with police in the northeastern city of Lucknow.

Business is booming at an international arms fair at Ankara, Turkey. CNN's Jane Arraf explains the market for weapons in Turkey.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The business of war, one of the few global industries that seems to be picking up. Here in Turkey, many of the biggest international arms dealers, countries and companies, are at one of the world's major arms fairs to show their stuff. One of the potential buyers on the market: Pakistan, back after a long absence due to U.S. sanctions, recently lifted to encourage and reward Pakistan's cooperation against terrorism.

LT. GEN. ABDUL QAYYUM, PAKISTAN: Now that these sanctions are over, I think we will have an access to the Western European market, to buy spare and raw materials and this will help boost our defense capability.

ARRAF: Those spare parts are for U.S. weapons, sold to Pakistan in friendlier days. It's a common problem as the United States mulls transferring military technology to countries it needs to fight terrorism. The U.S. now faces the prospect that some of the weapons it sold in the past, such as Stinger missiles now in Afghanistan, could now be used against it.

JOHN DALY, U.S. DEFENSE ANALYST: I think this is going to be a subject of great debate, for the simple reason that the Stinger metaphor would apply. The United States and its supplying of the most advanced technology has got to be as certain as it can be that the countries to which it is supplied are not subject to the type of violent social upheavals that convulsed around in 1979.

ARRAF: Lately, the U.S. share of the global arms market has dipped, but other countries are stepping in to fill the breach. DALY: Countries that have deep pockets obviously prefer American equipment, but the F-22, which is due to come on line shortly, cost $88 million a copy, and this is beyond all, except the very richest, perhaps, Arab Gulf states and a few other nations.

ARRAF: Russia, for instance, advertises much cheaper weapons. And fewer hassles about merging its arms with homemade parts, or reselling to third parties. It's proposing, for instance, that Turkey modernize its U.S.-made attack helicopters with its own technology.

SERGUEI MIKHEEV, PRESIDENT, KAMOV COMPANY (through translator): Without any doubt, our government does not give us any restrictions to transfer to Turkey any license on production of the helicopter.

ARRAF: But that doesn't mean that the Russians will sell to anyone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not for terrorists, not for terrorists, never.

ARRAF: But large and small, Russian dealers say their weapons are simply a better deal for cash-conscious clients.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The rocket missile unit, it will be about $1 billion, OK? But we can do the same thing by this one, which is smaller and much cheaper.

ARRAF: Arms dealers here say this new tension will mean more demand for a different type of weapon, more targeted and more intelligent, to fight a new kind of enemy.

Jane Arraf, CNN, Ankara.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And I'll be back in just a moment with a look at latest developments, as America targets terrorism.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Let's recap some of the latest developments we're following tonight: U.S. officials tell CNN American and British special forces are already conducting reconnaissance operations inside Afghanistan to pave the way for possible future action.

Taliban leaders in Afghanistan have refused another request by Pakistan to hand over suspected terror mastermind Osama bin Laden. Taliban officials tell CNN negotiations have hit, quote, "the end of the road."

And investigators say they've found copies of a letter among the suspects' belongings, giving final instructions and encouragement for the attacks.

That's all the time we have tonight. Please join me Sunday for a special three-hour "LATE EDITION." Among my guests, the Attorney General John Ashcroft. That's Sunday, beginning at noon Eastern. And Sunday night, we'll have a special WOLF BLITZER REPORTS live, that's a full hour, beginning at 8:00 p.m. Eastern.

Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN" begins right now.

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