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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Target: Terrorism

Aired September 30, 2001 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Tonight on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, target: terrorism.

Afghanistan's Taliban say they know where Osama bin Laden is, and they may be willing to talk. I'll speak with U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft, who says that's not good enough,

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN ASHCROFT, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: This is a time for them to say, yes, we'll deliver him to you, and yes, we'll deliver his network.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The anti-Taliban forces say they also know where bin Laden is, and they're willing to go after him.

If that doesn't work, what other options are available to the U.S.? We'll hear from our correspondents at the White House and the Pentagon, in northern Afghanistan and in Islamabad.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERVEZ MUSHARRAF, PRESIDENT OF PAKISTAN: I would not like Pakistani troops to be crossing the borders into Afghanistan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Pakistan's President Musharraf tells CNN's Christiane Amanpour how he is prepared to help.

Can Israel and the Palestinians help by putting a lid on their own conflict? I'll speak with Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres.

And we'll sit in on classes with those who study war and learn why this war is different, as America targets terrorism.

Good evening to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer, reporting tonight from Washington.

Let's begin with the latest developments in America's new war on terrorism. U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft is sending out a strong warning. He tells me terrorist activity against the United States may increase once this country responds to the events of September 11. We'll have more of my interview with the attorney general later in this program.

And this is a live picture of the World Trade Center ruins. Tomorrow morning, New York City will start issuing $1 billion worth of notes, intended to help the city rebuild following the terrorist attacks.

And finally, more victims of the attack on the Pentagon were named today, bringing the number of those positively identified to 84. The death toll here still stands at 189.

Turning now to the search for Osama bin Laden. A week ago, they claimed to have lost track of him, now Afghanistan's Taliban say they know where the alleged terrorist is, but they're not telling. The Taliban ambassador to Pakistan spoke earlier today with CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABDUL SALAM ZAEEF, TALIBAN AMBASSADOR TO PAKISTAN (through translator): He says wherever he is, he's under the control of Islamic Emirates of Afghanistan, and because of his safety only the security people who are responsible for his safety know his whereabouts, and no one else. But he is wherever he is, under the control of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The Taliban say they want to negotiate with the United States, and the Bush administration has a strong response. CNN White House correspondent Kelly Wallace joins us live with all the latest details -- Kelly.

WALLACE: Well, hi there, Wolf. The White House responding quickly and firmly, saying it will absolutely not be negotiating with the Taliban and that the administration will not be turning over evidence to the regime either. The message from the Bush White House is that the Taliban know fully well what President Bush's demands are, and that those demands are non-negotiable.

Now, as for President Bush, he arrived back at the White House early Sunday afternoon. He refused to answer any reporters questions as he arrived back with the first lady from Camp David, but his top national security advisers certainly answered many questions as they fanned out on the Sunday talk shows. The president's Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld saying he questions anything the Taliban say, because he says that they just said just a few days ago that they didn't even know where suspected terrorist Osama bin Laden happened to be. Further, the secretary saying he is very skeptical that the Taliban would ever even turn over bin Laden if in fact they knew where he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I doubt that they will do anything about it. They have been rather adamant that they don't intend to do anything about it, and have not done anything about it thus far. The question is to whether or not they have bin Laden -- we keep talking about Osama bin Laden as though he is the problem. It is a very broad network.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: And the secretary making clear that the administration's demands including turning over bin Laden, also any associates or terrorists linked with al Qaeda network, and for Afghanistan to shut down and close all terrorist training camps in the country. And when the secretary was asked earlier today if the Taliban would pay a price if it did not adhere to those demands, the secretary saying, quote: "I would think that ought to be self-evident at this point" -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Kelly, there is a force in northern Afghanistan fighting the Taliban, the so-called Northern Alliance. How reliable of a potential ally do officials in the White House regard this force?

WALLACE: Well, Wolf, most of this is going on behind the scenes. There are definitely contacts between U.S. officials and Northern Alliance, certainly the administration looking to get any intelligence information that group or any groups might have, since one of the biggest hurdles there White House has been facing is getting good intelligence on exactly where bin Laden and his associates might be.

Also, we have heard the administration -- while it won't say publicly that one of its goals here is toppling the Taliban regime, we have seen in an internal memo obtained by CNN on Saturday that the administration plans to assist any groups that want to overthrow the Taliban. As we know, the Northern Alliance is one just group.

So, certainly there is some communication there, but a lot of this is going on behind the scenes. Wolf, as you know, the administration very concerned about angering Pakistan. Pakistan has been very cooperative with the U.S. in these efforts, but the Pakistanis have good relations, or some relations, with the Taliban and consider the Northern Alliance rebels hostile. So, it's a delicate balancing act for the White House, Wolf.

BLITZER: A difficult walk for all concerned. Kelly Wallace at the White House, thank you very much.

And those anti-Taliban forces have been stepping up their fight against the Taliban regime, and have their own ideas on how to go after Osama bin Laden.

I spoke earlier with CNN's Chris Burns, who is with them in northern Afghanistan.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Chris, what are you hearing from the Northern Alliance, the United Front forces up there about the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden? CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the United Front, the Northern Alliance has been claiming all along that they knew where Osama bin Laden is. They say he is somewhere in southern Afghanistan, and they have been saying that they could be helping the United States track him down. In my conversation with the Foreign Minister Abdullah Abdullah of the Northern Alliance, yesterday he said also that it is not only bin Laden that we need track down, but also his lieutenants, who he says are just as dangerous as bin Laden is, and getting rid of the terrorists is not the only thing.

He says that they have to also get rid of the Taliban, because the Taliban, he says, are sponsoring all of this. They need to be removed, of course, to pave the way for Northern Alliance to come to power, Wolf.

BLITZER: But correct me if I'm wrong, the Northern Alliance has been saying for some time they know generally where they believe Osama bin Laden is, but they don't have precise information, do they?

BURNS: Well, they claim to have it. They don't want to be public about it, but they claim to know where he is, and they say that he is for several days now they have been saying that he is under the protection of the Taliban. So, to them it comes as no surprise that that's where he is.

BLITZER: Now, there seems to be some suggestions out there that the Northern Alliance, the forces where you are are massing, they are building up for some sort of a new offensive. Are there indications of that from your vantage point?

BURNS: Well, this is what the Northern Alliance is saying, and they are saying that it is in response to a buildup of Taliban forces, which they say include some non-Afghani fighters, perhaps other Arabs from other countries, and this is in the area where there is Baghram air base, that's the former Soviet air base that some experts say could serve as a staging point for U.S. operations if that fighting did advance. At the moment, the Northern Alliance holds most of the base. If that fighting did advance and if the Taliban did advance, that could pose a threat to any project to set up some kind of a U.S. staging point there.

Might also mention also that the battle right now is also a diplomatic one, where the Northern Alliance is -- there is lot of arm- twisting going around, where the Northern Alliance is trying to show itself as the leading contender to run a government in Kabul. However, there are, of course, others, and the United Nations is arm- twisting, trying to persuade some moderate Talibans to join some kind of a coalition. Of course, there is also talk about the king, the former king serving as a figurehead, as a rallying point for other members of Afghan group to rally around to form some kind of a governing coalition. That's the diplomatic battle that's going on at the same time, Wolf.

BLITZER: And Chris, very briefly, have you noticed a shift in the morale among the Northern Alliance forces since the September 11 attacks here in the United States? BURNS: Well, absolutely. There was of course a blown when Commander Massoud, their charismatic military leader, was assassinated two days before the September 11 attacks in the United States. That being seen as a way to cause disarray among the troops. But it does -- they seem buoyed by this sort of thirst for revenge after Mr. Massoud was killed, and at the same time there's hope that the United States will come and support them in their effort to topple the Taliban. However, at the same time, there is a tinge of disappointment that the United States has not yet really provided, in any considerable way, support, especially in terms of material support for their fight.

BLITZER: Chris Burns from Northern Afghanistan. Once again, thank you very much.

The president of Pakistan says he is not holding out much hope that the Taliban will hand over Osama bin Laden or any other suspected terrorists. General Pervez Musharraf spoke with CNN chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour in Pakistan earlier today.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: General Musharraf said that he had not yet received an operational plan from the United States. I began by asking him whether he would allow U.S. troops military, equipment, and support here on Pakistani soil.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEN. PERVEZ MUSHARRAF, PAKISTANI PRESIDENT: Certainly we have been asked for intelligence and information sharing. We have also been asked for utilization of our airspace and logistic support. And we have said that we will certainly cooperate in all these three areas. Since we haven't gone into the details I wouldn't like to go into the modalities of tactical details.

AMANPOUR: But as last resort, if it becomes absolutely necessary, works you allow U.S. forces based here?

MUSHARRAF: As I said, certainly we need to consider and we have said we will cooperate in these three areas, logistics support and use of airspace. We need to get into the details of modalities as they come along.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Pakistani sources tell CNN that as a last resort, if they were asked, the Pakistanis would eventually allow U.S. troops on Pakistani soil. Then I asked President Musharraf whether he was personally convinced yet that Osama bin Laden and the al Qaeda network was responsible for that terrorist attack on the United States.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MUSHARRAF: There is no evidence that has been shared with us as yet. So therefore, all that I know is from the television. So I don't have any details myself. AMANPOUR: And are awaiting, are you expecting a full sharing of the evidence from the United States?

MUSHARRAF: Well, yes. We have indications that parts of the evidence which can be -- which do not have any confidentiality maybe, could be shared with us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: Musharraf went on to say that any hopes of the Taliban would hand over Osama bin Laden were, quote, "dim." He admitted that two missions from Pakistan to the Taliban had filed to moderate the Taliban's outlook on this and he said that he believed he had the strong support of almost all Pakistanis in his decision to stand with the United States.

On another issue, we watched the Taliban ambassador to Pakistan listening to a radio address tonight by the Taliban so-called supreme leader, Mullah Omar, in which he told the Afghan people that they would never accept a so-called puppet government installed by the United States. He was referring to talks under way to see whether the ex-king of Afghanistan, Mohammed Zahir Shah, would come to lead any interim government eventually in Afghanistan.

He went on to say that the United States should look at the reasons why there are terrorist attacks, and he said that unless the U.S. changes its policy, a killing of Americans would continue. He also said that while American weapons could kill certain people in Afghanistan it would never stop Americans being killed.

And then he closed out the radio addresses by saying if America is going to strike, come on and do so now. But he said he believed it was all saber rattling and told the Afghan people that nothing significant was going to happen. Back to you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Christiane Amanpour in Islamabad and thank you very much and please stay with CNN for much more. Christiane's entire interview with the Pakistani president will air later tonight. That begins at 10:00 p.m. Eastern.

And this weekend President Bush reiterated that the war on terrorism i by no means conventional with no clearly drawn battlefields and no enemy forces. CNN national security correspondent David Ensor joins me now with more on what the U.S. may be facing in the hunt for terrorists and one accused leader, Osama bin Laden -- David.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, with renewed indications that the Taliban is not prepared to turn over Osama bin Laden and his lieutenants in the al Qaeda terrorist group, the U.S. officials may now have to face a hard reality.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): In order to get those responsible for the September 11 attacks, the United States may have to take on thousands of Taliban forces protecting them. It is a challenge administration officials would prefer to avoid.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are not about nation building here, we are about ridding the world of terrorists and making sure that no nation is a place where terrorists feel they can get comfort and aid.

ENSOR: With a military challenge possibly growing in scope, the Bush Administration is discussing what military bases and assets it can use in neighboring countries, in Uzbekistan and Tajikistan to the north, and to the east, in Pakistan, whose leader insists he has not been asked for military bases.

In fact, U.S. officials confirm, military to military discussions have been underway in Pakistan, but due to Musharraf's worries about opposition within Pakistan to assisting the U.S. military, a delicate diplomatic maneuver, at least for now, is giving him plausible deniability.

The United States has not officially asked for bases, but has instead discussed what bases it could have if it asked. The same diplomatic dance is apparently underway with Saudi Arabia,

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have not been asked for using of the bases in Saudi Arabia, and therefore this is hypothetical for me to answer it one way or another.

ENSOR: In case it does come to a regime change in Afghanistan, a number of U.S. delegations have met in Rome with the 86-year-old former king, Mohammed Zahir Shah, seen by many as a man around whom a new Afghan coalition government could gather. Zahir Shah says he doesn't want to be king anymore, but despite Taliban threats to kill him if he returns to Afghanistan, his grandson says the former monarch does want to help his people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His majesty would like to, as a symbolic figure, as a father figure, unite all the various different groups of Afghanistan to take Afghanistan out of this calamity.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR: Bush Administration officials are keeping their eyes firmly on their first objective, bringing bin Laden and al Qaeda to justice, but an expanded U.S. involvement in Afghanistan and its region's future appears likely for years to come if the danger of more terrorism on American soil is to be reduced -- Wolf.

BLITZER: David, what do we make of all these fragmented reports that U.S. and British special operation forces may already have been on the ground in Afghanistan?

ENSOR: Well, they all started as you remember with the report which I think is credible from having checked it out, that there were SAS British operations units on the ground outside Kabul coming under fire in the early days after the attacks. Beyond that, the people I talked to in the government obviously don't want to get into the details of this kind of thing. It's very sensitive. Lives are at stake potentially. But if you talk to them at some length it becomes clear, a tremendous amount is going on that we are not hearing about. And maybe that if just as well. Maybe that is the way they want it. Some of it we will hear later. Some of it we may never hear.

BLITZER: Some day we may hear the whole story in the history books. What about the week ahead as far as the diplomacy of the Bush Administration in trying to forge this anti-terrorism coalition?

ENSOR: They were heartened by the last vote the United Nations which clearly stated that all the governments had voted for it and there were no opponents, will now go ahead with a series of steps, cutting off the finances, cutting off visas, arresting quite a few people. So there's now going to be a lot of energy in the Stated Department calling up particularly Muslim governments and governments in the region and saying to them, you made that commitment at U.N., now follow through. We will be watching.

BLITZER: David Ensor, thank you very much. And this just in from our White House correspondent Kelly Wallace. She says President Bush is planning to name a retired U.S. Army general to a new administration post described as the deputy national security adviser focusing on combating terrorism.

That U.S. retired Army officer is Army General Wayne Downing, a former chief of U.S. Special Operations Command. He was also the author of a scathing task force report that investigated the June 1996 terrorist attack on the Khobar military towers barracks in Saudi Arabia, which killed 19 members of the U.S. Air Force. Once again President Bush planning to name retired Army General Wane Downing to a new post, Deputy National Security Adviser to focus on counterterrorism.

And up next, he's playing a key role in the U.S. anti terror campaign. I'll speak with Attorney General John Ashcroft. And later, will Middle East violence harm U.S. efforts to form an anti terror coalition? I'll speak with the Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. The United States remains firm in its demands that the Taliban rulers of Afghanistan turn over Osama bin Laden and his associates. Earlier today, the U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft talked with me about the U.S. demands.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: General Ashcroft, thanks for joining us. Let's begin with the news of the day, which is that the Taliban now says they know the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden. What's your reaction to that?

ASHCROFT: Well, first of all, the president has made it very clear those who harbor terrorists, those who sponsor them, those who give them aid are considered to be a part of the attack against the United States of America. Very frankly, we are in a very serious situation. We believe there are substantial risks of terrorism still in the United States of America. And as we as a nation respond to what's happened to us, those risks may in fact go up, so that we still have a serious situation.

If they're harboring Osama bin Laden, that's the wrong thing to do. I believe the United States, as we respond, we'll respond effectively.

But I think our risks go up, and that's what's given me such a sense of urgency about the legislation, which we need to pass to give us the tools to curtail terrorism. We need to be able to intercept, interrupt, interdict, stop, delay, prevent additional terrorist acts in America.

BLITZER: Well, as the person who's in charge of this U.S. investigation -- you're leading the investigation -- if the Taliban says they know of his whereabouts, he's under their authority, are you demanding that he immediately be handed over to the United States?

ASHCROFT: Well, obviously, that's been a request, a demand for a long time. We have asked that they assist us in bringing to justice this individual who has orchestrated this al Qaeda network. You know, he's not the only responsibility or obligation we have in terms of our self-defense and our ability to respond. But certainly it's a responsibility on their part to deliver him and his lieutenants, and to help in the dismantling of this terrorist network.

BLITZER: So it's not just Osama bin Laden. You want all of his associates handed over directly to the United States?

ASHCROFT: You know, it's very clear that this is a network, the roots of which are in Afghanistan, no question about that in my mind. But we've seen its manifestations recently in Europe, as we have traced back from this act of war against the United States. We know of its manifestation in the United States most painfully.

We're very confident that Osama bin Laden-, al Qaeda-, terrorist- tied organizations are operating in dozens and dozens and dozens of countries around the world. Responsible nations are participating with us in an effort to curtail the additional threat.

Here at home, we have to do more than talk. Talk won't stop terrorism. We need tools to reduce the risk of terrorism.

BLITZER: And we'll get to that in a moment.

But I just want to nail down -- the Taliban says, give us some evidence. They want some evidence from the U.S. implicating Osama bin Laden and his lieutenants, and then they'll talk with you about handing him, presumably over to some third party or maybe even to the United States.

ASHCROFT: You know, Osama bin Laden is one of the -- is the top person on the 10 most-wanted list of the FBI, not just for this event but for his previous involvement in the embassy bombings in Africa, Dar es Salaam and Nairobi. And he's under indictment.

Here is a clear situation where his catalogue of activities against the United States is so substantial, and his...

BLITZER: Well, why not simply provide that catalogue directly to the Taliban, through some third party if necessary, so they might have the political cover to hand him over?

ASHCROFT: They obviously have an awareness of his indictment in the United States, of those individuals with whom he's been involved having been to trial in the United States or in the process of criminal justice activities.

This is not a situation where the Taliban sits in ignorance and says, we've got him but we think he's innocent. This is a time for them to say, yes, we'll deliver him to you, and yes, we'll deliver his network, and we'll make it available, and we'll expose it. Because this network of terrorism is a threat. It's a current threat to the United States as well as the rest of the world.

BLITZER: And if they don't comply?

ASHCROFT: Well, obviously, the United States is going to respond. And the president has made it very clear that he expects not only to go after the networks and the leaders of the networks, but those who harbor and aid and provide a base of operations.

Now, that is very clear that the roots of this assault against the United States and much of the terrorism that has plagued a good bit of the world, including our assets in Africa and the like, is in Afghanistan.

BLITZER: So, just to wrap it up, if the Taliban does not comply, they could face the wrath, the military wrath potentially, of the United States?

ASHCROFT: Well, I'm not going to talk about specific responses of the United States. As you well know, this is a comprehensive effort. The president has indicated that all the options are on the table. We're going to take action not only against those individuals and be responsive to those networks and individuals, but to those who harbor, aid and provide shelter for them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Attorney General John Ashcroft, speaking with me earlier today.

And just who is Osama bin Laden, and how does he operate? Just ahead, we'll hear what CNN terrorism analyst Peter Bergen has to say about the military capabilities of bin Laden and those of his opponents. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Let's check the latest developments in America's new war. Taliban officials say they know the whereabouts of suspected terrorist leader Osama bin Laden and they're indicating they're willing to negotiate with the United States. The Bush administration is raising doubts about the claim and rejecting the offer.

If Afghanistan's Taliban rulers are driven from power, Afghanistan's exiled king says he will return to his country, if requested, to lead an interim government. Some U.S. congressmen met today with the former monarch at his villa in Rome.

And Pakistan's president tells CNN that hope is very dim for the Taliban to hand over Osama bin Laden and other suspected terrorists.

Right now, we're going to take a closer look at Osama bin Laden, who is he, how he operates. Joining me, CNN terrorism analyst Peter Bergen, who has interviewed bin Laden -- I guess in 1997 was your interview with him.

First of all, this claim from the Taliban leadership that they know the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden, that he's under their control, how credible is that?

PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: I think it's pretty credible, because actually they made the same sort of claim some time after the U.S. embassy bombings, saying, at one point he disappeared, they said, and then they said, after that, well, he is under our control, we have got an armed guard around him, we know where he is. So, it sort of -- it fits those previous statements on the issue, so I mean, I think it speaks for itself they know where he is.

BLITZER: Why would they admit this, given the enormous amount of pressure they're under already from the United States, from Pakistan, from almost the entire world, the U.N., why would they knowledge they know where he is and they control him?

BERGEN: Good question. I think that they are -- well, one thing is I guess everybody knew that they did know where he was. I mean, I don't think it's a surprise that they know where he is, and obviously he is an ally of theirs. It's rather mystifying why they would want to say, yes, we do know where he is, but we are not going to give him up. Unless it's -- well, perhaps, it's a way of very clearly saying that there's no hope of them turning him over.

BLITZER: They do say they are willing to talk to the United States, they are willing to negotiate, if you will. They want hard evidence from the U.S., implicating, showing that Osama bin Laden was in fact responsible for the September 11 attacks.

BERGEN: Well, as Attorney General Ashcroft said on your show earlier, it's not just the World Trade Center attacks, it's also the U.S. embassy bombing attacks, and they have made the same kind of statements about the U.S. embassies bombing attacks, and in the sense that when the United States government said they wanted bin Laden for that, they said we need hard evidence. The United States handed over the indictment against bin Laden, and that, as far as they're concerned, is not hard evidence. And let me explain what hard evidence might constitute for them. It would be rather different than what a court in Manhattan might find. The whole basis of the Taliban movement is Shariat, Islamic law. So, when they use the word "legal" they mean something rather different that what it would be understood in the United States. Their idea of a legal proceeding is a clerical court, which is rather different from what would be in this country.

So, there is a big distance between what the United States would regard as legal evidence and what the Taliban would.

BLITZER: There are some that are suggesting the Taliban are simply stalling, that they think that by starting, if you will, some negotiation with the United States they might be able to squeeze some benefits out of the U.S. I guess, that's sort of makes somewhat sense, even though the Bush administration says no negotiations whatsoever.

BERGEN: Well, we have seen some conflicting signals out of the Taliban that might reflect some disagreements within the movement about what to do with bin Laden. At one point, you know, they said we would like to ask him to voluntarily hand himself over. Now saying there's no hope of us handing him over.

So, I think these perhaps mixed signals reflect some divisions within the Taliban itself about what to do with bin Laden, who after all is creating a lot of problems for them. You would have thought -- they have been looking for international recognition for a long time, they have the biggest card they could possibly play in terms of getting some kind of international recognition by handing him over, and it's sort of interesting that they haven't used that card.

BLITZER: And it's not just Osama bin Laden, it's his associates, his lieutenants, his supporters inside Afghanistan. You have met with Osama bin Laden, you have studied him, you are completing a book right now on the subject. How many people are we talking about in Afghanistan approximately -- Osama bin Laden and his al Qaeda organization?

BERGEN: Well, one thing, Wolf, when the -- the Taliban has been fighting against the Northern Alliance for several years, and in that fight 400 fighters of bin Laden's, it's called the zero-five-five brigade, have been fighting alongside the Talibans. So you have got a group of at least, say, 400 people who are engaged in conventional warfare, and then you have a group around him of his bodyguards and perhaps the inner core of al Qaeda, so you are looking at a group of several hundred at minimum.

BLITZER: Why is it so difficult for Western intelligence services and other intelligence services to penetrate al Qaeda?

BERGEN: This is a group of people that have been together for a long time. And if you are a CIA agent, you are going to stick out a million miles, or an agent of any other kind. It's not only that...

BLITZER: Well, couldn't the CIA recruit an Afghan, someone from the region that speaks Pashto or one of the languages, the dialects of Afghanistan to go in there and pose as a true believer, if you will?

BERGEN: Well, that's obviously high on their list, but it's a bit late now probably. I think it's just tough, because these people have had a shared history. You have had to be kind of vetted -- certainly, to become a member of al Qaeda, you would have had to go through training, you would have to perhaps fight in the Afghan war against the Soviets. And I think they are very suspicious of outsiders in -- when their group was based in the Sudan, we know that they executed informants within the group, so it's not an easy group to penetrate.

BLITZER: And finally, very briefly, the Northern Alliance, the so-called United Front, the anti-Taliban forces which control a small portion of Afghanistan, how credible, how realistic are they in their struggle against the Taliban?

BERGEN: Well, they are credible and their leader, Ahmed Shah Massoud, who was assassinated recently, was probably the best guerrilla leader in Afghanistan. They have a group of about 15,000 men, perhaps up to 30,000 men. They are credible, but they haven't been able to dislodge the Taliban by themselves up to this point. They have been fighting against the Taliban for five years now.

BLITZER: Peter Bergen, once again, thank you very much.

And they've been fighting for years, the Israelis and the Palestinians. How might their conflict affect America's war on terrorism? Coming up, Israel's Foreign Minister Shimon Peres addresses that issue and more. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Live picture of the still smoldering ruins at the World Trade Center in New York.

Welcome back. In the Middle East, violence has continued despite last week's meeting between Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres and Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. Concerned about the impact on its efforts to build a worldwide anti-terror coalition, the Bush administration has been pressing both sides to resume their peace process.

A short while ago, I spoke with the Israeli foreign minister.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Foreign Minister Peres, thank you very much for joining us. And let's get right to the issue at hand: U.S. officials have told me they are hoping that perhaps out of the disaster, the terror attack of September 11, one positive developments could be the restart of the Israeli-Palestinian peace process. You just met with the Palestinian Authority President Yasser Arafat. Is there a likelihood that these negotiations will resume in a serious, substantive way?

SHIMON PERES, ISRAELI FOREIGN MINISTER: There is a possibility. It's not a certainty. I think Arafat himself understands that he has to make a choice, so do we...

(AUDIO AND VIDEO GAP)

BLITZER: Welcome back. The Bush administration keeps reminding us the new fight against terrorism is very different from wars of the past. And that means a new kind of training is needed for those who may someday find themselves on the front lines. Here is CNN's Kathy Slobogin.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATHY SLOBOGIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The pictures are familiar: American troops deployed, aircraft carriers moving into place. But this war is different, with an enemy you can't see, where victory is hard to define, and the battlefield is everywhere.

VICE ADMIRAL PAUL GAFFNEY, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL DEFENSE UNIVERSITY: We are looking at the world as a globe with many interacting parts, not just looking at one particular enemy who plays almost exactly by the same rules as we do.

SLOBOGIN: Vice Admiral Paul Gaffney runs the National Defense University in Washington where the nation educates top officers in the Army, Navy and the Air Force.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The policy makers are saying, we got to think differently, right? You hear that all the time, this is a different kind of war.

SLOBOGIN: In classes like this one, students are being challenged to discard old assumptions in the face of a new threat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, we didn't think of how our planes could be used against us as missiles. It really didn't occur to us really to that degree.

SLOBOGIN: At one time, this class would have been all military officers.

GAFFNEY: It's not like that anymore. It's many, many people that are involved in strategic planning, strategic decision making getting approvals. The press is critically important. American industry is important. Congress is important.

SLOBOGIN: Now a third of the students are civilians. They come here not only from places like the State Department and Congress, but from around the world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoever thought we'd talk about being bedfellows with Syria.

GAFFNEY: When we talk about the Middle East or sub-Saharian Africa or Southeast Asia, there will be somebody in the room that may have actually been in combat in that area, may actually know a national leader personally. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I were going to leave with the most important message, it would be wars don't solve all problems in international relations.

SLOBOGIN: Dr. Jim Keagle teaches grand strategy. He says recent years have seen a revolution in military education, where military force is now seen as just one option in a larger arsenal of responses, like diplomatic pressure or economic sanctions.

DR. JIM KEAGLE, NATIONAL DEFENSE UNIVERSITY: What we really do stress is that the military, the traditional understanding of the military instrument of power, the going to war, sending tanks and airplanes and ships into battle, that's only one element of national power. We teach that there is an array of instruments of power -- the informational, the military, the economic and the political.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right now, I'm flying at about 4,600 knots over Kosovo.

SLOBOGIN: The lightning speed in global reach of information technology has also fueled a revolution in military education, pushing commanders to become what they call here informationally dominant on the battlefield.

KEAGLE: The relationship between the headquarters and the field has changed fundamentally. If you went back to the war of 1812, for instance, one of the things that many of us remember from our time in school, is that one of the key battles was fought after the peace treaty was signed, because communication was much slower. Now, communication seems to be almost instantaneous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He could be anywhere right now, beaming images from anywhere to anywhere else.

SLOBOGIN: Here, officers are getting a lesson in wearable computers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here is this keyboard right here, see how small that is?

SLOBOGIN: With hands free, a commando could be alone in Afghanistan and theoretically communities in real time with Washington, or access satellite maps which tell him where the enemy is or what's over the next hill.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just like wearing a regular pair of glasses.

SLOBOGIN: Here, a computers could be hooked up to a screen embedded in a pair of glasses.

KEAGLE: The knowledge that that gives to the individual soldier or sailor or air person and his commander on the field fundamentally changes the way warfare is conducted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is called the virtual command center.

SLOBOGIN: To help soldiers learn to respond rapidly to the flood of information, the university has a virtual classroom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can go right into our battlefield area.

SLOBOGIN: Computers can quickly gauge the blast effect of different explosives, the impact on infrastructures or the contamination effect of a biological or chemical attack.

The aim here is to avoid a historical truism, that countries tend to fight today's war like the last one. Keagle says the Gulf War, with its reliance on overwhelming air power, it's few casualties and it's made for TV appearance is the wrong model.

KEAGLE: Can we expect the same adversary with the same capabilities and same patterns of behavior to exist? The answer to that question is no. That's not going to repeat itself.

SLOBOGIN (on camera): As America gears up for a new kind of war, it will need a new kind of warrior. As the experts here put it, that means a warrior who realizes military force is only one weapon and may not always be the best one.

Kathy Slobogin, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: I will be back with the look at the latest developments in "America's New War" right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Once again, let's take a look at some of the developments on this Sunday. Saudi Arabia's ambassador to the United States, Prince Bandar, said, "let there be no doubt this country stands with the United States in the war against terrorism," and that support will include political, financial and intelligence gathering, not just military support.

The White House chief of staff says President Bush wants to reopen Reagan National Airport in Washington. Security concerns will dictate how soon that happens.

And President Bush is now back in Washington. He is scheduled to meet tomorrow with FEMA workers, the Federal Emergency Management Agency. They have assisted with the recovery efforts in New York and Virginia at the Pentagon.

That's all the time we have tonight. Tomorrow night, please join me again at our new time, 7:00 p.m. Eastern, for a full hour of coverage, as America targets terrorism. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

A special Sunday night edition of LARRY KING LIVE begins right now.

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