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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Target Terrorism: British Prime Minister Tells Taliban 'Surrender the Terrorists or Surrender Power'
Aired October 02, 2001 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: This is a battle with only one outcome - our victory and not theirs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Warning of military action, Britain's Tony Blair says there can be no compromise with those behind the September 11th attacks or those who protect them.
After seeing the evidence against Osama Bin Laden and his network, NATO gives the U.S. its backing. I'll speak with NATO Secretary General George Robertson.
We'll put Osama bin Laden on the couch. What makes him tick? I'll ask psychological profiler Dr. Gerald Post.
As President Bush reopens Reagan National Airport, who should inspect your bags? Bill Press and Tucker Carlson will have our "CROSSFIRE" debate. We'll also hear from our correspondents in Washington and around the world.
And we'll go to California's Camp Pendleton, where Marines prepare for what may be the next threat -- a chemical attack -- as America targets terrorism.
Good evening to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting tonight from Washington.
I'll speak to the head of NATO shortly, but first here are the latest developments as America targets terrorism.
A German intelligence official tells CNN his country intercepted a call on September 11th in which two followers of Osama Bin Laden applauded the attack. A task force on airplane security is recommending stronger cockpit doors with deadbolts. It's also calling for more security training for crew members.
And security remains tight at the U.S. embassy in Rome as the State Department warns that American interests in Italy might be targeted by terrorists in the next month. U.S. citizens in Italy are being urged to use extra caution. The United States is showing its allies evidence linking Osama Bin Laden and his Al Qaeda network to the New York and Pentagon attacks. British Prime Minister Tony Blair today delivered a call for action against those responsible for what he described as the slaughter of the innocent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLAIR: If they could have murdered not 7,000, but 70,000, does anyone doubt they would have done so and rejoiced in it?
So there is no compromise possible with such people. There's no meeting of minds, no point of understanding with such terror. Just a choice: defeat it or be defeated by it. And defeat it we must.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLAIR: Any action taken will be against the terrorist network of bin Laden. As for the Taliban, they can surrender the terrorists or face the consequences.
And again, in any action, the aim will be to eliminate their military hardware, cut off their finances, disrupt their supplies, target their troops, not civilians. We will put a trap around the regime, and I say to the Taliban surrender the terrorists or surrender power. That is your choice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: With Britain and the other NATO nations lining up behind the United States, let's go live to CNN European political editor Robert Oakley. He's in Brussels.
Robert, first of all, why did the prime minister deliver this strong speech today?
ROBERT OAKLEY, CNN EUROPEAN POLITICAL EDITOR: Well, I think he's working obviously in close conjunction with the White House, Wolf. And really, he's got to show a little bit of independence, because sometimes some of the European leaders are a little suspicious that Mr. Blair is too much in the sway of the White House. He's gone out rather ahead of George Bush in terms of saying that they're going to get rid of the Taliban regime if they don't hand over bin Laden and the other terrorists. He's saying the regime will go.
Interestingly, he also went on to develop a thought which I think was well-received in European capitals, and that was to say that when the military action is over, the allies, those involved, won't walk away from Afghanistan, but will attempt to create a better society for those who suffered under the Taliban: a society with more honor, more justice, and a better economic society for those who faced starvation through the endless wars of recent years in Afghanistan -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Robert, he's delivering a very forceful address. Is that reflective of the overall mood in Europe or is there opposition to what he's saying that you can discern?
OAKLEY: Well, I think Tony Blair is, if you like, at the head of the war-like party in Europe. He is one who's not shrunk from using the term war as President Bush has done. A number of other European leaders have done so. Tony Blair is somebody who seems to thrive in these kinds of crises. He's willing to take a top line on this.
He, I think, feels a complete moral repugnance for the degree of terrorism that we've seen. The degree of suffering by the innocent here. I think he's genuinely affronted by it and he's prepared to take top action and reaction to it.
And remember that we saw a fairly tough war leader in Tony Blair back at the time of the Kosovo conflict when he had differences with the Clinton administration about the use of ground troops and he proved a forceful figure then -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Robert Oakley in Brussels. Thank you very much.
And earlier I spoke with NATO Secretary-General George Robertson and asked him why the United States won't show its evidence to the Taliban.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEORGE ROBERTSON, NATO SECRETARY-GENERAL: The information that we got today was clear and compelling. It came from the United States government, and of course, it would be up to the United States government to share it with whoever it believed it could trust. Whether it can trust sensitive information along the lines of that, that it shared with its allies today with the likes of the Taliban is a judgment that they have to make.
But I can tell you that the 19 NATO ambassadors who listened today found it absolutely compelling and crystal-clear that all of the roads of the investigation clearly lead to Osama bin Laden, the Al Qaeda network, and the protection that is being given by the Taliban to that network and that individual.
BLITZER: Was there any other evidence provided that linked others, beyond Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda, other governments, other states to this September 11th attack?
ROBERTSON: Well, I'm not able to answer that question for you because the briefing we received today was at a secret level with classifications secret. So I'm not in any position to share that with you. But I can tell you what the impression was that was given. And although there may well be other actors, both state actors and non- state actors involved, the investigation so far, which is after all only in its 20th day, has clearly led to a conclusion that it came from outside the United States of America. And all the indications point conclusively to Osama bin Laden and the Al Qaeda network.
BLITZER: As you know, the British prime minister, Tony Blair, spoke out today about the need to go after the Taliban regime if necessary if they don't hand over Osama bin Laden. But he also made another point. I want you to listen to this brief excerpt from his speech. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLAIR: We'll take action, too, at every level, national and international -- in the U.N., the G-8, the European Union, in NATO, in every regional grouping in the world -- to strike at international terrorism wherever it exists.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: He mentioned NATO, as you clearly heard. What are the 19 NATO allies militarily going to do as an organization?
ROBERTSON: Well, the 19 NATO allies stand ready to listen to the United States of America, which is the country that has been attacked, to hear what they have to say and what they want, either collectively from NATO or individually from these countries. And today's reaffirmation of Article V's invocation is very clear and I think a signal that these countries stand by the United States of America.
NATO is still the most important military alliance on this planet today. It has its own structure, but clearly it is up to the United States of America to take the lead, whether using NATO -- which has been offered to it -- using coalitions of the willing, broader coalitions that might be geographically appropriate, or by acting alone. That is their sovereign decision to make.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: The NATO secretary-general, George Robertson, earlier today. And the comments from the prime minister, Tony Blair, suggesting the United States and Britain do see eye to eye when it comes to a campaign against terrorism.
Let's go live to CNN White House correspondent John King. John, what are they saying at the White House about the prime minister's speech?
JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, they are embracing the prime minister's speech. But today was another reminder that while the United States and Britain have a special relationship, they are unquestionably close allies in this, the president and the prime minister have different roles. Both men are leaders trying to prepare their nations for the likelihood of military responses, but the president also is trying to build an international coalition. And that is much more complicated.
That is why, if you ask the question of the day, is the Taliban out of time, you get a slightly different answer.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... that the Taliban must turn over Al Qaeda organization living within Afghanistan and must destroy the terrorist camps. And they, they must do so, otherwise there will be a consequence. KING (voice-over): On the other side of the Atlantic a little more than an hour later: same issue, more specific answer.
BLAIR: And I say to the Taliban, surrender the terrorists or surrender power. That is your choice.
KING: That put the prime minister out ahead of Washington. The White House has repeatedly stopped short of a public declaration that a regime change in Afghanistan would be an explicit goal of military strikes. But there were no complaints from the White House.
ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I don't think anybody should expect two leaders to give speeches that are carbon copies in every iota in every sentence in every word. But the two have said virtually the exact same message. We are united. We stand strong together.
KING: Yet there was some concern in the West Wing in the hours before Mr. Blair spoke. At the 8:30 am senior White House staff meeting, sources tell CNN chief economic adviser Larry Lindsey asked about reports that Mr. Blair would go well beyond the official U.S. line. Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley acknowledged the prime minister would be, quote, "leaning into it." But he quickly assured his colleagues that National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice had seen the speech text and is, quote, "not upset."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Not upset, because Blair did not, as some advance reports suggested, lay out a specific timetable and say those military strikes were imminent. Not upset here at the White House, Wolf, because they understand that as the president and the prime minister work hand in hand, Mr. Bush has to lead that international coalition. That makes it more difficult for him to say some things as directly as the British leader did earlier today -- Wolf.
BLITZER: John, you heard the NATO secretary-general say it's up to the United States to decide whether to share any of the evidence against Osama bin Laden directly with the Taliban. What are they saying here in Washington at the administration level about sharing information with the Taliban?
KING: They say simply that they will not, Wolf. The administration saying that the Taliban request for that information is a delaying tactic. They say there will be no negotiations, no sharing or exchange. If you are an ally of the United States in this effort, you will be briefed on the evidence. If you are against the United States -- and the administration says the Taliban squarely is, because in its view it continues to harbor Osama bin Laden -- you do not get the evidence.
The administration serving notice again they would not respond to that request and they view it simply as a delaying tactic. The president making clear without setting a deadline that time is running short -- Wolf. BLITZER: John King at the White House. Thank you very much. Meanwhile, there was a major development in this entire situation. Today, President Bush deciding to dispatch Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to the Middle East.
CNN national correspondent Bob Franken is live at the Pentagon with details of the trip -- Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And Wolf, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Oman and Uzbekistan, all countries that are terribly significant when it comes to the military operation and all the administration decided in need of personal visits.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: We have a lot of activity in the region of the Defense Department, and I have not been able to be there yet this year. Normally ministers of defense visit countries where there is that type of activity, and I unfortunately have not been able to thus far. And it just seems that I should. And it is something that as we all know, there are a lot of things others can do, but there are some things that the secretary of defense has to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANKEN: And specifically, Wolf, what the secretary of defense can do is he can talk very, very specifically, speaking from the highest levels of the U.S. government, about the needs that the other countries have to go along with as far as the U.S. is concerned.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUMSFELD: It seemed to me that given their geography and their situation that having a face-to-face meeting with the leadership there would be a useful thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANKEN: The secretary was talking about Uzbekistan, a very unusual case. It's a former Soviet republic. It is just north of Afghanistan, has importance as a staging area. But there are some complications: The government is asking for things from the United States which have to be negotiated and that's what Rumsfeld will do.
He says this is going to be a relatively brief trip, Wolf: He's going to be back in the United States he hopes by this weekend.
BLITZER: Specifically, Bob, as far as Uzbekistan is concerned, as you pointed out a country that once was a Republic of the former Soviet Union, what specifically do they want from Uzbekistan, which borders Afghanistan of course to the north?
FRANKEN: Well, they want that access. They want the ability to at least be able to stage raids from that close to Afghanistan. There are plans of course to use the other countries as staging areas. They have the USS Kitty Hawk that's going to be in the region, which will in effect serve as its own staging area. They didn't bring the planes along so they are hoping to in fact place lots of troops on there for possible action.
But Uzbekistan is right next to Afghanistan to the North and it could be very useful when they have to make lightning strikes.
BLITZER: And so far the Uzbeks have been making very, very encouraging comments. Bob Franken at the Pentagon once again. Thank you very much.
And hoping to secure the flanks of its anti-terror coalition, the Bush administration is pushing Israel and the Palestinians to end their conflict. Let's go live to CNN State Department correspondent Andrea Koppel for details -- Andrea.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, well, certainly the Bush administration maintains that it has always, since it came into office in January, been pushing for speedy end to this crisis between the Israelis and the Palestinians. But it will also admit that this latest September 11th attack has stepped up the pressure, especially because it needs the support of the Arab world. And it also needs to prove that the U.S. is actively involved.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL: CNN has learned Secretary of State Powell is putting the finishing touches on a speech in which for the first time the Bush administration will clearly support the creation of a Palestinian state.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: As the president said this morning, there has always been a vision in our thinking, as well as in previous administrations' thinking, that there would be a Palestinian state.
KOPPEL: This message was to be delivered last month at the United Nations, but the September 11th attacks not only changed the venue, but also complicated exactly what Powell would say. Support for U.S.-led coalition hanging in the balance, Secretary Powell is walking a tightrope as he considers next steps in the Middle East.
In meetings with Arab leaders, diplomats say, the Bush administration has been told Arab support for the war on terrorism is linked to progress on the Israeli-Palestinian crisis. As the U.S. gears up for possible military action in Afghanistan, securing the help of countries in the Middle East and around the world has become a delicate diplomatic dance.
CNN has learned the State Department is delaying publication of its annual report on religious freedom, which is expected to criticize potential key coalition partners, including China, Sudan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Iran, and Saudi Arabia. The Bush administration has also begun to provide evidence it says directly links Osama bin Laden and his Al Qaeda terrorist network to the September 11th attacks as well as to last year's bombing of the USS Cole in Yemen and the 1998 bombings of U.S. embassies in East Africa. (END VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL: And Wolf, today at NATO headquarters in Brussels, a top State Department official briefed NATO allies and Russia on the U.S. case, and an administration source tells us that among the evidence provided was the phone records as well as bank statements showing various transfers. But the real test, as you know, as to just how successful this diplomatic campaign has been will come in the days ahead as Secretary Rumsfeld sets off for Central Asia and for South Asia, as well as the Middle East, looking to see now whether or not those countries will be willing to back up their public support with military help. And they'll find out what else they want in return.
BLITZER: And briefly, Andrea, the defense secretary of the United States going on this delicate diplomatic visit to the region. Some would say why isn't the chief diplomat of the United States, the secretary of state, Colin Powell, making this trip.
KOPPEL: Well, I asked that question to officials here at the State Department and they say because this is really a military mission: Secretary Rumsfeld looking to see exactly what those various countries are prepared to provide the U.S. and what the U.S. is allowed to do on their soil. In addition, they say Secretary Rumsfeld is a very experienced diplomat himself, who will be able to handle things on the ground -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Andrea Koppel at the State Department. Thank you very much.
And for an update on the situation in Afghanistan, CNN's Nic Robertson joins us now live from Quetta. That's along the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan.
Nic, you've been doing some reporting on what's going on inside Afghanistan. What are you hearing?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, today there was a demonstration at Kandahar. About 2, 2 1/2 thousand people came out onto the streets. We understand through our sources there the demonstration lasted about 2 1/2 hours. And although it wasn't supported by the government, there were no government speakers, it was very much in favor of the Taliban government. The local people coming out and making speeches were speaking against Pakistan, against the president, and also speaking against the exiled king, saying that he had no relevance in society anymore.
They burned effigies of the king. They also burned effigies of President Bush.
Also, we understand that the government, the Taliban, is trying to relax their pressure a little bit on the people. Their very hardline vice and virtue ministry, who control the police who enforce the strict Islamic law, and the defense ministry, we understand, relieving tensions, trying to win the hearts and minds of people by getting rid of some of the checkpoints that are on the roads. We also understand that in eastern Afghanistan that some people are beginning to question the Taliban's leadership and question exactly if they're doing the right thing about Osama bin Laden by not handing him over -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Nic, are there reports -- serious reports of defections from within the ranks of the Taliban?
ROBERTSON: Wolf, that is very difficult to assess from here at this time. Certainly, from what we're being told inside Kandahar itself, that the Taliban still have a lot of support. However, it does have to be said that demonstration only 2 to 2 1/2 thousand people: that in a very big city, that in the center of the Taliban's stronghold.
In previous times before September 11th, when there have been demonstrations there against the opposition, the Taliban's opposition, the Northern Alliance, it's drawn far bigger crowds than this. Now we are told that some people are afraid to come out on the streets because they fear an attack, but also other people perhaps not behind the Taliban leadership.
And we do hear again from some of the eastern provinces and from Kabul itself that there are people who will speak out now against the Taliban. They haven't talked out before.
Also, here in Pakistan earlier today, the Taliban's ambassador to Pakistan making the pleas with the -- to the West, in fact, essentially asking for evidence on Osama bin Laden's guilt and then saying that they would be prepared to negotiate. But within hours of that, there was another very hard-line statement on the Taliban national radio, Radio Sharia, where Mullah Omar was denouncing the West, denouncing the king, in fact saying anybody that supported the king was a traitor and could be punished by death. So sort of two conflicting messages, but no indications that there are serious cracks yet that would break the Taliban leadership -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Nic Robertson along the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan in Quetta. Once again, thank you very much.
And just ahead, our "CROSSFIRE" debate: Are you satisfied with security at airports? Should the U.S. federal government take over? Bill Press and Tucker Carlson coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Washington's Reagan National Airport will reopen Thursday for the first time since September 11th. President Bush made the announcement at the airport today, saying there's no greater symbol that America is back in business. Service will be phased in over several weeks as enhanced security measures are put into place.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: We got struck hard on September 11. All of us know that. But you can't strike the American spirit. It's strong. It's vibrant. It's united, and by opening this airport we're making yet another statement to the terrorists: You can't win.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Meanwhile, a bipartisan group of senators today announced a plan to make security checkpoint personnel at the country's 130 largest airports employees of the federal government. The plan, which the White House opposes, would be funded by a ticket surcharge of up to $2.50.
Is the federal takeover of airport security the answer to lingering safety concerns here in the United Sates? That's the subject of tonight's "CROSSFIRE."
Here's Bill Press.
BILL PRESS, CO-HOST, CNN'S "CROSSFIRE": Should the government take over security at our airports around the country? Joining us as guests to debate this topic tonight, Republican Congressman Bob Barr from the state of Georgia and Democratic Congressman Jim Moran from the state of Virginia, whose district, of course, includes the airport we're talking about -- Reagan Washington National Airport -- Tucker.
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST, CNN'S "CROSSFIRE": Congressman Moran, good evening. It's not clear that there was a failure in any American airport that led to the terrorist attacks on the 11th of last month. And yet it's become increasingly probable and likely that a number of federal agencies were at fault making mistakes: the FBI, the INS, the CIA. So now you want to federalize the airports?
REP. JIM MORAN (D), VIRGINIA: I really do, because of the thousands of people that are hired by private security firms, the vast majority are underpaid, undertrained and ineffective. We've done a number of studies. These studies have shown that we're now letting about 20 percent of the checks are allowing things that could be used as threats, that hijackers could use.
These screeners are getting minimum wage. The people that are working in the fast food restaurants in the airports are getting paid more than the screeners. Many of them are not U.S. citizens. They just find the company. It's a British company that provides 40 percent of all the screeners, because they have hired felons and other people that were untrained to work at the airports. They were fined $1.3 million...
CARLSON: Nobody disputes that airport security needs to be repatterned. The question is how do we make it so. So your idea is if you want to make it more efficient, federalize it. If you want a heart transplant, you go to a VA hospital.
MORAN: Because the security companies themselves are telling us that it is so competitive. The airlines are not compensating them adequately in order to get the bid. They have to bid so low that they can't possibly pay people more than the minimum wage. And that's why we need to federalize it so that we can expect people to exercise some judgment.
Right now, you can't expect a minimum wage person to exercise some judgment as to whether somebody is suspicious, to assume responsibility for things that they're checking. I think we need to make this a more professional responsibility, and you can do that if we federalize it, not if we keep it the way it is.
PRESS: Congressman Barr, of course airport security doesn't stand alone. It's part of the system. If you look at the system, if you look at the construction of planes, if you look at the safety of planes, if you look at the operation of airplanes, if you look at the control of airplanes, all of those are handled by federal agencies, federal employees. Doesn't it make sense to make the whole system, adding security to that system, entirely operated by federal employees so that we know what we're doing?
REP. BOB BARR (R), GEORGIA: Bill, what is magical about federal employees? Why is it that simply because you can take two people just the same out there -- and you and Mr. Moran think that if you say with a magic wand, presto, you're a federal employee, they're all of a sudden better than the other person? I don't buy that.
The premises that my dear friend and colleague has stated are correct, the premises that you stated are correct, but your solution is wrong. You ought to be listening in this instance to Tucker. There are better ways of doing it.
Yes, if we put people in there who are poorly trained, poorly paid, poorly educated, of course we're going to have problems. But that doesn't mean that the only way to solve that is to create more federal employees, more federal government. What you can do is you can professionalize it by having the FAA do its job, and that is to force the airlines to do what they were supposed to have done all along, and that is have good security.
PRESS: Well, the premise, of course, is that federal employees are going to give them the kind of training they need. Look, Congressman Moran is right. These guys today, the people at these checkpoints today, are making 6.25 an hour. I mean, for them, going to flip burgers at McDonald's is an upgrade. It's a step up in life.
BARR: Yes, but why does that mean that the way you solve that is to create more of a federal presence?
PRESS: If you let me finish my question.
BARR: Absolutely.
PRESS: Isn't it true, then, that you're never going to get the professional skills you need with these kind of employees?
BARR: That is true, but it's not, either you have these kind of employees or you have the federal government. There are many things in between that we ought to and can and should be doing that will cost the taxpayers far less than your big government solution. You set higher standards and you -- again, where I left off my last comment -- you force the FAA to do the job that it should have been doing all along, and that is to force the airlines to do their job. And if they don't, you fine them and you fine them heavily. and you start closing down airports. That will get their attention.
MORAN: You give the FAA a lot more responsibility, they're going to have to hire more employees, they're going to have to have more regulations. And the reality, there's very little you can do to hold somebody accountable if they're making 6.25 an hour with no benefits.
BARR: Right. You pay them more, Jim. And what you can do, you could add a nominal fee, 2.50, to every ticket. And you pay that.
(CROSSTALK)
BARR: That would pay for it.
CARLSON: Now, Congressman Barr, speaking of simple and inexpensive solutions to security problems, how about facial scanning, which would allow the FAA, or whoever is in charge of security, to verify that a person is who he says he is. It's not a violation of anyone's privacy. You don't have a right to pretend you're someone else, of course. This seems like an obvious solution, yet you apparently are against it -- why?
BARR: Well, so you determine that Abdul is Abdul. What higher degree of security does that give you, Tucker?
CARLSON: Well, I mean, it all depends. It depends if Abdul is on a list of people who are suspected terrorists, it's important to know.
(CROSSTALK)
BARR: If Abdul was on a list of suspected terrorists, what in the heck is he doing wandering around the country? Why didn't the government put him in jail and deport him a long ago?
CARLSON: That's one of many questions, but answer mine, which is, why not use the simple technology to determine people are who they say they are?
BARR: If in fact you could come up with a system that identifies just those people, and you have a guarantee that the information similar to the NIC system would not be retained, would not be used for some other purpose, then that might be one tool that could be used. The problem with all of these other scenarios where they're using cameras is it's not so limited.
PRESS: Congressman Moran, I want to ask you about one of the limitations on flights, once Reagan National is reopened a couple days from now -- is that there are going to be armed marshals on every single flight. Now, you agreed to that. It's the only airport in the world -- well, at least in this country, I'm not talking about Israel -- it's the only airport in our country that has that requirement. Why only National, and why on every flight? MORAN: Because you are 30 seconds away from the White House, the U.S. Capitol. And I think we need to make National Airport a national model of safety. This should be the safest airport in the world. We need to do every El Al airlines is doing, everything we know to ensure the traveling public that not only are they safe, but that our nation's capital is safe. And so I think we ought to have air marshals, we ought to bolt the doors so that you can't get into the cockpit. We ought to have double screenings of the passengers. No curbside checking, all of that kind of stuff.
We need to convince the public it's safe to travel by air and we need to protect the nation's capital.
PRESS: Congressman, you know as well as I do...
MORAN: It's also the only way I could get National Airport open.
PRESS: All right, that's what I was going to get to. Isn't that the fact that that's the price you had to pay, even though it doesn't make any sense?
MORAN: Yeah, and the security people...
(LAUGHTER)
PRESS: All right, thank you for your honesty and your candor.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Congressman Barr, in just the one minute we have left -- the answer to this might take a lot longer, but try to boil it down -- who is responsible for the terrifying breaches in airline security that we saw last month? Have you gotten to the bottom of this?
BARR: The FAA is. It is FAA's responsibility to ensure airline safety, where, in some areas, they do a very, very good job. They do a very good job in ensuring the integrity of our air-traffic control systems, especially given the tools that they have.
But in the area of air transport security, which is the responsibility of the FAA, they have delegated it, they have not enforced their own regulations, and they are ultimately responsible.
PRESS: Quickly, Congressman Moran, your last word.
MORAN: What gets me, Bob, is there's an inconsistency here. You are the first one to cut back the role of government, and then when something goes wrong you blame it on government. For FAA to assume all these responsibilities, they're going to need more people, more programs.
BARR: No, they are not. They can simply do their job that they should have all along.
MORAN: It's not so simple. They're all working hard.
BARR: No, it isn't that simple, but that's part of it.
MORAN: For us to hold them accountable to it, Bob.
CARLSON: We'll invite you both back for our FAA show. Congressman Barr, Congressman Moran, thank you both very much.
And now back to Wolf Blitzer in Washington -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Tucker.
He was forced into exile almost 30 years ago. Could Afghanistan's former monarch be a once and future king?
And he's drawn up psychological profiles of terrorists. I'll ask Dr. Jerrold Post to go inside the mind of Osama bin Laden. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. We want to update you on some of the latest developments we're following. New York City is launching a $40 million ad campaign aimed at boosting tourism in the wake of the attacks.
The U.S. Federal Reserve is trying to boost the American economy with another interest rate cut. The federal funds rate is now at 2.5 percent, its lowest level since 1962.
And American Airlines says it will put reinforcement bars on all its cockpit doors within 30 days. Two of the planes hijacked September 11th belonged to American.
Afghanistan's king was toppled some three decades ago, but has been in touch with anti-Taliban forces about a possible role in the country's future. Earlier I spoke with CNN's Chris Burns, who is with the opposition forces in northern Afghanistan.
Chris, a lot of speculation about the exiled king of Afghanistan. What are you seeing there, from your perspective, on this issue?
CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's true that the Northern Alliance, where we are right now, in Northern Alliance country, they have been fairly critical about the king, but it seems like they have come around to supporting him. We traveled to what's left of the royal palace and talked to some people around there to see what they think about it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BURNS (voice-over): The shattered palace of Habibullah Khan, Afghanistan's first 20th century king. North of capital of Kabul, it was a retreat with gardens, fountains and imported marble. The king sought to modernize Afghanistan, bringing electricity to the palace and the village around it.
No more. The palace is a shell of what it was, the royal family driven into exile 28 years ago, in a coup by a cousin.
(on camera): This palace is a symbol of what Afghanistan is today, and what the king would face should he return: a country laid to waste and in ruin by decades of war, a country desperate to rebuild, if only peace would return.
(voice-over): King Mohammad Zahir Shah, now 86 and living in Rome, has agreed with the Northern Alliance and other anti-Taliban factions to form a two-year interim government to replace the Taliban regime. An ethnic Pashtun, like the Taliban, the king also has the respect of many non-Pashtuns.
This Tajik refugee in Kabul, asked when he would return to the capital, says, "when the king comes."
Haji Gauha tended king's horses many years ago.
"He was very good king," he says. "He was just and fair. He loved people."
A Northern Alliance soldier was a child when the king was deposed, but he still remembers...
"Life was normal then," he says. "Everybody was comfortable. There wasn't a war."
But words of caution from a villager about a king-led interim government. "It is only good on the condition people aren't destroyed," he says, "That the rights of the Afghan people aren't trampled on."
A people and a palace already trampled on by war. "MY heart bleeds because our homeland has been destroyed," he says. "We don't have a home. Half of us have fled the country. Who is left here? Everybody is left because of the Taliban."
That approach, "anybody but the Taliban," could be the primary reason a king-led interim government could work, and prevent more inter-ethnic fighting than would bounce the rubble of a shattered nation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURNS: So mainly positive words for the king, but the real test will be if and when he gets to Kabul -- Wolf?
BLITZER: And switching gears for a moment, Chris, what are you hearing about a new United Nations aid package that supposedly is getting into Afghanistan and into Kabul, even?
BURNS: Well, that's right. In fact, the first shipment of U.N. aid since the crisis began, arrived in Kabul. They began unloading it and distributing it to the population there. Some 1/5 of the population of one million are dependent on humanitarian aid, and that number is growing. In other parts of Afghanistan, there is food and supplies. They are starting to arrive or being shipped. The United Nations or the World Food Program says that some 400,000 people face imminent starvation unless more help comes. And of course, winter is some about one month away. They also say that 1,500 tons of wheat are being shipped in. UNICEF, the United Nations Children Fund, is sending in 6,000 blankets and shelter materials, also, of course, anticipating the onset of winter -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Chris Burns in northern Afghanistan, thank you very much.
As we reported earlier, the British Prime Minister Tony Blair delivered a very tough speech today, warning the Taliban to hand over Osama bin Laden. Only moments ago, while out to dinner, President Bush reacted to that speech.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Taliban needs to read what I said to the United States Congress, and they ought to take it seriously. There is no negotiation about what I said. I said what I mean. And they need to rout Al Qaeda out of their country so we can bring him to justice. And they need to destroy the terrorist camps. I haven't changed my opinion. They need to know I'm serious about it, and the prime minister was echoing exactly what I said in my speech to the Congress.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you all very much.
BUSH: I'd like steak medium rare, please.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: President Bush out to dinner, with Washington's Mayor Anthony Williams, just a little while ago.
And what could prompt anyone to order or carry out the deliberate slaughter of thousands of innocent people? I'm joined now by Doctor Jerrold Post of George Washington University. He's a psychiatrist, he's devoted his entire career to political psychology. He spent more than two decades at the CIA. He profiled world leaders, as well as terrorists, and he's been studying what makes Osama bin Laden tick.
Thanks for joining us very much.
DR. JERROLD POST, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: My pleasure.
BLITZER: What motivates, specifically, Osama bin Laden?
POST: I believe you have to go back to Afghanistan, where he really found himself as a leader. He found his aesthetic lifestyle, using the family fortune to support the Afghan freedom fighters. They began to adulate him, and he was seen almost as a messianic leader.
And when, with significant American aid, the Soviets, in their own Vietnam, left the country, he was a man without an enemy, in some ways, which is very bad for a warrior king with his warriors ready to follow him. And quite adroitly, he switched gears and went -- when he went back to Saudi Arabia, found the American forces on Saudi Arabian holy land. Now America became the new enemy.
BLITZER: And how does he manage to motivate his followers with almost this kind of blind loyalty, that they would be willing to commit suicide in the process of trying to kill the enemy?
POST: They have taken their own individuality and subordinated itself to the group, the group cause. They're true believers. Almost every phrase he gives is wrapped in the Koran -- this really quite distorted, extremely radical version of the Koran -- and he, and in his fatwa, for example, he says "God commands you, that if you wish to be rewarded," in paradise, that is, "to kill all Americans," a most remarkable command.
But they in effect see themselves as not only doing something not immoral, but doing something that is a sacred obligation.
BLITZER: Is it sacred to him, too? Would he be willing to commit suicide in exchange for this, in going forward with his own battle?
POST: I believe he is totally committed to his cause. Having said that, I think it is also the case that he is a rather -- has a rather enlarged psychology, quite grandiose, at that time, insofar as he almost identifies himself with Allah.
BLITZER: So what -- you've studied it for a long time. You established, at the CIA, the whole center for the study, political psychology. You've done profiles of these kinds of individuals. I remember 10 years ago we had these discussions about Saddam Hussein right here on CNN.
What's going through his mind, Osama bin Laden's mind, right now?
POST: Osama bin Laden now must be on a high note of triumph. He's had success after success after success, with the bombing of the embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, the destruction -- he caused major damage to the USS Cole. And now this heroic triumph, from his point of view.
There must be long lines of recruits snaking around the block, ready to join up and follow his cause.
BLITZER: So are you suggesting he is more dangerous now than ever?
POST: Yes. I think he is really expanding in his grandiosity in some ways. And this is not merely a dedicated, pious man. He is quite grand, indeed.
BLITZER: Well, as you know, he comes from a very wealthy Saudi background. What initially made him come to this conclusion, that he was going to lead, form this network to go out and attack the West?
POST: Well, I think -- back again to Afghanistan, he really found himself in seeking this jihad, initially, against the godless Soviets, and then against the secularizing West. And at that point, was really when they formed Al Qaeda, just after the Soviets left. And they then were supporting movements all over the world, where Muslims were being, in his point of view, victimized, killed, savaged, and they were going to help the fighting Muslims around the world.
BLITZER: But was there anything specific in his personal background, with his parents, or his siblings, that would have suggested led him to this kind of mission?
POST: No, I don't believe so. He was one of what -- either the 23rd of 25 children, or the 40th of 54, not entirely clear. But this was his way of gaining significance, but it's a pretty extreme way of gaining significance.
BLITZER: As you know, there is a $25 million bounty on his head. You would think that that would make it a little easier to penetrate his network, although we're told that the intelligence agencies from around the world have had a difficult time getting into that network.
POST: In some ways, I wish the reward were only one dollar. I think it's very unfortunate to personalize this, because it ends up increasing his stature, just as Saddam Hussein was the madman of the Middle East, before. The issue for us, really, is not Osama bin Laden. It is radical Islam, and how can we inhibit an alienated youth from moving into the ranks of this really distorted version of Islam.
BLITZER: And I know you've studied these suicide bombers, whether the hijackers or others. They believe -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- that once they die, they will be in paradise enjoying life in the hereafter.
POST: Yes, indeed. The letter from Atta, the ringleader...
BLITZER: Mohamed Atta.
POST: Mohamed Atta, which was really kind of like the team captain or coach trying to keep people calm. Said, remember, be serene. You're about to meet Allah, you're about to meet those nymphets you've heard about and live a glorious life in paradise. This whole letter is just filled with Islamic phrases. These are committed, radical Muslims who believe this quite distorted version of Islam is the way to the truth.
BLITZER: Dr. Jerrold Post, thanks for joining.
POST: My pleasure.
BLITZER: Appreciate it.
And up ahead, the Marines at Camp Pendleton are training for a new kind of warfare. CNN's Frank Buckley will show us how the U.S. Marine Corps is preparing for chemical, biological and even nuclear war. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Welcome back. Marines at Camp Pendleton in California are training for a new kind of warfare. They're learning the counter tactics for nuclear, chemical and biological attacks. CNN national correspondent Frank Buckley is there and he joins us now with more -- Frank.
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, we are in the NBC warehouse for second battalion fourth Marines at Camp Pendleton. This is where the gear is kept for nuclear, biological and chemical agents, to protect Marines from those things.
Joining me here is Lance Corporal Michael Lynch (ph). He is going to show us that on the command "gas, gas, gas," he is supposed to be able to get out his gas mask, place it upon his face within nine seconds, and have his face fully encapsulated within 15 seconds. He is in a full mock gear here, and this is designed to protect from all agents of both nuclear fallout, biological agents and chemical agents. Within 15 seconds he has that hood down, and it is fully protecting him from all of those agents.
As we thank him very much for showing us this through the demonstration, we'll show that earlier today we were up in the area 62 gas chamber area here at Camp Pendleton, where the members of Fox Company Second Battalion Fourth Marines marched up into the area. They marched up for their annual training with C.S. gas in the gas chamber.
And joining me to help explain what we saw there is Chief Warrant Officer Mike Impastato. Earlier we were up there at the area 62, at the gas chamber. What were the Marines undergoing up there?
CWO MIKE IMPASTATO, U.S. MARINE CORPS: They were doing their annual mass confidence exercise. They're going to a control chamber event to ensure that they know how to operate, and their mask is operating correctly.
BUCKLEY: Tell us how relevant that is in the current environment, in which Marines possibly could be deploying, along with soldiers from other branches, into potentially hostile action?
IMPASTATO: Well, whenever we get to do NBC training, it's a good thing. It just instills confidence in the Marines to let them know that the gear that we give them actually works, and at any time, if they should need it, it will work properly.
BUCKLEY: And you actually asked them to expose their skin, and they have to show and breath in that environment and actually drink water in that environment. Is that right?
IMPASTATO: Well, we don't ask them to breathe in the environment. What we do is tell them to break the seal of the mask so it could simulate them accidentally breaking the seal in a contaminated environment, to show us that they know how to clear any contamination that may occur inside the mask out, and that they can drink inside the mask. Because in a contaminated environment in real world operations, they may be in it for extended periods of time, and they might need a little bit of water while they're in there.
BUCKLEY: U.S. Marines that are potentially deploying also have other equipment here. And if you could quickly run through some of the things that are here to help Marines detect any NBC agents.
IMPASTATO: Right. This is some of our radiation equipment. It's used to detect radiation, in case we come in contact with some sort of operation like that. This is a marking kit, so in case we do come in contact with contamination, be it biological, chemical or radiological, we'll be able to mark it off and prevent anybody else from wandering into it.
BUCKLEY: Let me ask about this over here. You were showing me this earlier.
IMPASTATO: That's the M256 vapor detection kit. It's a chemical detector. It actually goes out and is able to detect blister, nerve agents, blood agents, and let us know if there is any contamination in a specific area.
BUCKLEY: OK, Chief Warrant Officer, thanks very much for the informative tour there of Area 62 and some of the items that are in place to help the Marines, if and when they deploy -- Wolf?
BLITZER: Frank Buckley at Camp Pendleton, California. Thanks very much. And NBC, we want to repeat for our viewers out there, not the TV network, "nuclear, Biological, Chemical warfare." And I'll be right back with the latest developments as "America Targets Terrorism."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Recapping the latest developments in America's war on terrorism, U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is headed to the Middle East. He's to visit Saudi Arabia, Oman, Egypt and Uzbekistan. Rumsfeld said he's not been to that region as defense secretary, and given what's happening, he thought it would be a good time to go.
The Bush administration may use the Voice of America to reach out to the Afghan people. The administration will use radio and TV broadcasts to assure Afghans they are not the target of a possible attack.
And a symbol of survival exactly three weeks after the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center. A seriously burned victim, 27- year-old Manu Dhingra, left the hospital today. The security trader says it feels great to have second chance at life.
That's all the time we have tonight. Stay with CNN throughout the evening. First lady Laura Bush joins Larry King one hour from now. Please join me again tomorrow at 7:00 p.m. Eastern for a full hour of coverage, as America targets terrorism.
Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN" begins right now.
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