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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
America Strikes Back: Anthrax Threat Widens
Aired October 17, 2001 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Today on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS "America Strikes Back."
The anthrax threat widens, as people test positive for exposure in the office of the Senate majority leader. The House of Representatives faces an environmental shutdown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DENNIS HASTERT (R-IL), HOUSE SPEAKER: We think it's prudent also to take some time and go through and make sure that this building and our office buildings are environmentally safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Anthrax spores are also found in the Manhattan offices of New York Governor George Pataki.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. GEORGE PATAKI (R), NEW YORK: We don't know the source.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: We'll go live to our correspondents in New York and on Capitol Hill. And I'll speak live with bioterrorism analyst Javed Ali.
As anti-Taliban forces step up their campaign on the ground, are civilians being caught up in U.S. air strikes? We'll go to the Pentagon, Pakistan and northern Afghanistan, as "America Strikes Back."
Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer, reporting from Washington, where the number of anthrax exposures increases, and where unprecedented security precautions are taking place.
We'll have in-depth coverage coming up, but first let's get a check of the latest developments. Here's Joie Chen at the CNN Center in Atlanta -- Joie.
JOIE CHEN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, we want to bring our viewers up to date on the very latest developments. President Bush is now about to leave for China for an annual Asia-Pacific summit. Air Force One is poised to depart Travis Air Force base in Sacramento, California, for the long flight to Shanghai.
Mr. Bush says it is important to make this trip to promote international trade during the current economic down-turn. CNN has learned that Air Force One will be escorted into Chinese airspace by U.S. fighter jets, though they do have China's permission.
New York Governor George Pataki closed his Manhattan office today after a test pointed to the possible presence of anthrax there. Pataki said no one in the office had been exposed, but he said that he and his staff are now taking antibiotics as a precaution.
In Washington, hundreds of Senate workers stood in line today to undergo tests for anthrax exposure. Now comes word that workers in a second Senate office, that of Wisconsin's Russ Feingold, have tested positive. We'll have more on this in just a moment.
The president's Health and Human Services chief says the Bush administration is taking aggressive steps against the anthrax threat. Tommy Thompson also announced that two existing drugs have been approved for treating exposure to anthrax. They are doxycycline and penicillin, both of which come in generic forms.
Releasing new attack tape today, the Pentagon said more than 2,000 U.S. bombs and missiles have fallen on Afghanistan since the start of the air campaign. Taliban sources tell CNN that a recent attack near Kandahar destroyed a bus, killing 15 to 20 civilians. But there is no way to tell if the Taliban's claim is true. The air attacks do continue around the clock.
One other quick note, donations pegged to relief efforts have topped now a billion dollars since they began pouring in, in the wake of September 11th. The Red Cross collected nearly half the money, and the "Tribute to Heroes Telethon" is believed to have helped raise about $150 million.
Now we go back to Washington for the latest on the anthrax scare. Wolf standing by there -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Joie.
And three Senate staffers in the office of Democrat Russell Feingold have been exposed to anthrax. Senator Feingold's office is next to that of Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, where a letter containing anthrax arrived last Friday. Daschle announced today that the number of people exposed in his office is 31, including several Capitol Police officers.
Speaking this afternoon, the majority leader sought to reassure, saying everyone involved will be OK. But for a second day in a row, a government fighting a war is being hampered on its own turf.
CNN's Jonathan Karl is standing by on Capitol Hill. He joins me now live.
Jon, first of all I want to alert our viewers that we're standing by for a news conference. Senator Daschle, Senator Bill Frist, of Tennessee, himself, is a medical doctor, the deputy surgeon general -- of course, when that news conference begins, we will take that live.
But let's take a look, Jon, for our viewers, in a layout of Capitol Hill. I want to put it up on our screen right now. I guess we don't have it on our screen right now. Here it is. This is Capitol Hill. This is the part -- and I'm going to use our telestrator to show our viewers the main Capitol that everyone is familiar with.
Of course, the anthrax that was delivered was in the Senate office building there one over here called the hart Senate office building, this one over here, it's called the Hart Senate Office Building. Some traces of anthrax, Jon, were also detected in the mailroom here in the Dirksen Senate Office Building.
Over on this side of Capitol Hill, these are the House office buildings. The main part of the Capitol, over here, once again, no traces of anthrax. In the House, no traces of anthrax.
But, Jon, tell us why, first of all, they decided in the House of Representatives to suspend work for at least the next few days.
JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the House of Representatives was responding directly to what was happening over here in the United States Senate. As a matter of fact, the four leaders of the House and Senate leadership up here -- Hastert and Gephardt over on the House side, Daschle and Lott on the Senate side -- had breakfast, you'll remember this morning, with the president, and discussed the situation here.
At that point, 7:00 this morning, they thought that this threat was actually much worse than it is. And the Senate leaders told the House leaders that they were inclined to close down. They said that no decision could be made, they needed to find out more information, they needed to meet with the rest of the members of the Senate. But they were thinking about closing down.
So the Speaker of the House went forward and decided that it would be prudent, it would make sense to close down the House of Representatives, so that they could go through, have an environmental screening, a screening in each of those House office buildings that you showed. And that while that was going on, simply close down, come back for business on Tuesday. And that's exactly what happened.
But over here on the Senate side, they learned a little bit more information this morning. They found that the threat seemed to be somewhat contained. They have only found, as you pointed out, signs of anthrax in two locations -- one, in Daschle's office, and the other in that mailroom in Dirksen.
They have a total now of 34 people that have tested positive, preliminarily, simply for exposure. As you said, most of those Daschle staffers who worked in that office: 25 of them Daschle staffers, six of those were police officers who went in on first call, when this was first reported on Monday, and now three in Senator Feingold's office. But Senator Feingold's office, it should be noted, is right behind Senator Daschle's office. So the threat seems to be contained. These senators here felt that it was important to send a message that this was not going to stop the work of the people, as they say, the work of the Senate. Here's what Daschle had to say about that earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: We will not let this stop the work of the Senate. There will be a vote this afternoon. We will be in session and have a vote, or votes, tomorrow. And I am absolutely determined to ensure that the Senate continues to do its work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KARL: But, Wolf, it's not going to be easy for the Senate to do its work because, although Daschle is keeping the Capitol open, the Senate side of the Capitol Building, as you showed in your chart, he is going to shut down, at the close of business today, all three of those Senate office buildings, so that they, too, can be thoroughly screened for further signs of anthrax.
But again, the preliminary tests they have so far showed very localized -- only in Daschle's office and only in that mailroom.
BLITZER: Tell us also -- I want to put that map of Capitol Hill back up on the screen, want to show our viewers, once again, precisely where the anthrax was located, if we go back to the map on the telestrator. This is the -- I don't have it.
KARL: There it is.
BLITZER: Here it is, right here. Let's go back to it. It's not on my telestrator. If they could put it up on my telestrator -- here it is.
This is the Hart Senate Office Building, where Senator Daschle has an office, where some of the anthrax was found. And right next to it is the Dirksen Senate Office Building, in the mailroom. But Senator Daschle's main office is here on Senate side of Capitol Hill, this side over here. This is the House side. No anthrax was found in what most tourists would visit, this main part of Capitol Hill over here.
And, as far as we know, no anthrax was found in any of the House office buildings on the other side of Capitol Hill. Is that right?
KARL: Well, that's exactly right. And as a matter of fact, Daschle spends almost all of his time in that Capitol building. So he was nowhere near his office at the time of this letter being opened. So Daschle himself, although he took the preliminary, the precautionary step of taking of those nose swab tests to see if he had been exposed -- there was really never a risk of Daschle himself being infected. And there have been absolutely no signs of anthrax in the actual Capitol Building, which is why they have decided that as they close down the Senate office buildings, they will keep open the Capitol, itself.
There was also some confusion and conflicting reports, and hopefully some of this can be cleared up at this press conference we're waiting for, as to whether or not any of the anthrax spores got into the ventilation system in that Hart Office Building. And right now we're told there are no signs yet, no conclusive signs that there was any anthrax in that ventilation system.
BLITZER: All right, Jon, stand by. I want to inform our viewers of some breaking news, a new development that CNN has just learned. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta has just matched the strain of anthrax that was discovered in Boca Raton at AMI, American Media, the publishers of the supermarket tabloids, to the strain of anthrax that was discovered in the letter delivered to NBC News -- mailed to the anchorman Tom Brokaw.
Once again, the CDC just announcing that the strain of anthrax matches -- same anthrax sent to Boca Raton, as well as to New York City, to NBC News. We'll have more on this, what it may mean, throughout this program.
But right now, Senator Daschle is beginning his news conference. Let's go to Capitol Hill.
SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: Good afternoon, everyone.
As we said this afternoon, from time to time we would be giving you periodic updates, and that's our purpose in coming before you again this afternoon, before the end of the day.
There isn't a whole lot of new information to share, but we did feel that a number of clarifications may be helpful, and we're going to do that.
I would also, for purposes of emphasis especially, remind you and those who may not know that we are in business this afternoon, we're going to be in business tomorrow. We just passed the interior appropriations conference report. And we will hopefully pass the military construction appropriations bill tomorrow.
There are a number of nominations that will be addressed tomorrow. The Judiciary Committee will be reporting out a number of judges, and I know that a series of committee meetings are going to be taking place in various locations, primarily in the Library of Congress, but also here in the Capitol Building itself.
So business activity is, of course, under way. And as I noted earlier, we are vacating the three office buildings in the complex in order to complete our work on sweeping the buildings in our search for additional foreign matter -- foreign material. That will be completed no later than the end of the weekend, and we'll be ready to go back to work on Monday.
Before I call on our colleague who has been so extremely helpful in this, Senator Frist, let me call on my partner, Trent Lott.
SEN. TRENT LOTT (R-MS), MINORITY LEADER: Well, thank you, Senator Daschle. And I appreciate the way that you have continued to work to address the problems associated with the mail that came into your office and the way you've held up under a lot of pressure.
I think we're doing the right thing by continuing to meet with our colleagues and with the media to explain what we're doing, and make sure the American people understand that we're continuing to do our work. There are a lot of meetings going on on a lot of important issues, including terrorism legislation. Good progress was made on that this afternoon.
But also, we want to make sure that we are able to answer your questions, rather than just on the run; to clarify some of the misperceptions or conceptions that have been out there in the media's mind and maybe in the American peoples' mind.
We have good experts here that we believe can answer them. We, of course, also have Dr. Bill Frist, our in-house resident doctor, who is very helpful to us in understanding the some time difficult to understand medical lingo.
So I hope that this will answer some of the questions that Senator Daschle and I have been receiving from you during the afternoon.
Tom, with that, I'll turn it back to you.
DASCHLE: Dr. Frist?
SEN. BILL FRIST (R), TENNESSEE: Thank you, Tom.
Let me just very, very briefly say the big picture -- paint the big picture, and that is things are very much under control; that everybody's going to be OK; that it's been very impressive to me to, sort of, watch the responsiveness both in terms of surveillance, the pulling together under Senator Daschle's leadership, what it really takes, and that is pulling together, in many ways, for the first time society's ever have to address, and that is the very best of the public health system, and that's what we're going to concentrate on over the next few minutes.
We have to look at it as a crime, anthrax through the mail with intent that is to be very destructive. And that involves public health, working hand in hand with law enforcement, with the FBI, with the Capitol Police. And having been involved as an observer in this, as we go through, I just want to share with all of you how impressed I have been in terms of that working hand in hand.
What we want to do now -- we just had a press conference, as you know, about five hours ago -- what we want to do now, in an attempt to keep people posted, is to focus on those two entities, that is the intelligence, public health, terrorism activity, all of that, put that aside, focus on the public health. And our public health system is such is that we need to respond -- and it really doesn't matter where this bacteria came from, where this anthrax came from, the system is the same. We've got people we need to respond to, there are questions to be answered about a disease that nobody in this room, nobody listening, has ever seen in the United States -- very few cases. Most physicians have not seen this. And so, you're seeing this play out before your eyes.
And therefore, we want to concentrate on the public health aspect. The surveillance to be able to answer the questions -- where we are today as of 5:15 in our nation's capital, what the implications are to people who have been exposed, who has been tested, what those numbers are. And that's the real purpose today.
With that, we're going to have one principal speaking and that is Dr. Ken Moritsugu, who is deputy surgeon general of the United States of America, and is the principal liaison with Health and Human Services and the team that Senator Daschle has put together to address this issue.
We'll also -- without recognizing everybody, and Ken can do that -- you should know, though, over the course of today, the command center here, and that's exactly what it is, pulling together law enforcement and public health, includes a broad range of people, experts in the field, including the CDC -- Dr. Rema Khabbez, deputy director of the Division of Viral Disease, National Center for Infectious Disease, has been with us all day. Larry Siegel (ph), who is, to my left, senior deputy director for medical affairs from the District of Columbia, because it's not just the Capitol that we focus on, because all of us live in the area around here. Roger Gibbs (ph), who's with us, who is really overseeing the surveillance and the sampling across the Capitol as part of this team, program manager from DARPA, which all of you know is Defense Advanced Research Project Agency, and a number of other people that we can mention.
But I think the most useful thing is to turn it to Ken and have him summarize as of where we are today.
Let me just say that you don't have all the answers at any one point in time. It's evolving. We have a seminal event which testing has to be done. How wide do you test? You make an initial decision based on the data that unfolds over time, you reassess six hours later as to whether or not to extend that perimeter, make different recommendations about treatment and about testing. And based on the information that comes tomorrow morning or the next day, it'll be changing, so get used to that.
All the cultures aren't in yet, so get used to that. You'll hear things about false negatives, false positives, don't worry about the details of the science. All of this has been worked out through our public health infrastructure, through our system. They're experts at it. We've got the best epidemiologists in the United States of America focusing on this issue.
I say all that to be reassuring, but also because you are the media and people who are listening want answers right now, but we don't have all the answers. We'll get the answers. We'll get to the root of it, both in terms of intelligence, and also the public health.
But I thank Ken. Let me turn to you. The focus of this meeting is on public health -- Ken.
DR. KENNETH MORITSUGU, DEPUTY SURGEON GENERAL: As many of you are aware, for the last couple of days there have been teams of investigators assisting here in evaluating the recent exposure.
At this time, nasal swab analysis indicates that the exposure has been confined to a very specific area of the Hart Building. We've broadened out our analysis after the initial nasal swab, and as we have broadened out our analysis, we have found that there have been no other positive samples to date.
Thirty-one people have shown the presence of spores: five law enforcement, three in Senator Feingold's office and the balance in Senator Daschle's office.
Because of that scientific evidence, the Centers for Disease Control epidemiologists advise that there is no further need for further testing after today. Only those individuals who worked in or visited the fifth or the sixth floor, southeast wing of the Senate Hart Building on Monday should receive the entire 60-day course of antibiotics.
With regard to the environment, at this time there has been no evidence of spores in the ventilation system. We continue to evaluate both the medical as well as the environmental status. And, as was mentioned before, we will bring you that information as it becomes available.
Thank you very much.
DASCHLE: I do think we want to mention the mailroom.
MORITSUGU: Yes, sir.
With regard to the mailroom, among the various tests that were done, there was a single test which appeared to be positive. And because of that, the mailroom also has been placed off-limits. We continue to assess that aspect of the building.
DASCHLE: I'd be happy -- we have our bank of experts who are here to answer questions to the best of their ability.
QUESTION: What about Speaker Hastert's office?
QUESTION: Dr. Frist, this is a question that we talked about earlier in the hall, that the size of the spores is the critical question here. What can you tell us about that?
FRIST: Today, as we walked the halls, the big issue among most of you -- I guess, America because the threshold's been raised, is this whole question of weaponization of anthrax -- of virulence of anthrax. And the issue was raised yesterday. It took on a life of its own over the course of the night and then today, and I know at a certain hearing certain statements have been made.
We've had General Parker who you heard from today, and in the briefings of the leadership by General Parker, who has actually looked under the microscope, today the following can be said: that he saw no other vegetative growth, that these particles -- and he used the words "garden variety," all of which I believe are very reassuring. There is a question of uniformity of the spores themselves, and that has not been settled. We have not been briefed, and people will continue to investigate on the sort of intelligence, FBI arm.
The specimens themselves have gone through the testing at Fort Detrick through General Parker's expertise, using standard immuno- fluorescent testing, looking under the microscope, through polymerase chain reaction, through ELISA tests, enzyme-linked immunosorbin (ph) assays -- all of which has given certain information, but at this juncture that it has been sent off to other laboratories in the country for further analysis. And you will not hear statements from the FBI or from any of us beyond that.
The questions are, how uniform? We can't answer that. Particle size? Around the one to two to three micron level, you know it's easier to what is called aerosolize the particles, but we have no evidence that this is necessarily across-the-board of that small size.
The good news and the good news you heard today is that this bug, this bacteria that has a shell or a spore around it, is sensitive to every single antibiotic for which it was tested -- that's penicillin, tetracycline, doxycycline, the fluorquinolones, Cipro. And that's good news. That means this thing is eminently treatable. And as we look at the public health side -- this arm over here that I'm talking about -- it's very reassuring because it doesn't have to be Cipro. It can be penicillin -- this range of antibiotics.
Now, weaponization doesn't mean anything to a physician. To a medical scientist it doesn't mean anything. It's, sort of, taken on a life in terms of weaponization.
We can't answer the question, but things like purity will be looked at. Uniformity will be looked at. What agents it's mixed with will be looked at. What agents are used in growing this will be looked at. And whether or not resistance to antibiotics will be looked at. The presence of plasmas will be looked at. It will be looked at; we do not have that information as of today.
DASCHLE: Dr. Frist has given us a very thorough answer. Let me, in much more layman terms, say two things. First, in all the briefings in which I have been in attendance, not once has anyone used the term "weapons grade." Secondly, in all of the meetings in which I have been in attendance, every reference to this bacteria has been just as Dr. Frist said: It is treatable.
I think those are the two most important things I hope you all will hear. We've not been briefed on any weapons-grade reference. And secondly, it is treatable.
QUESTION: You were the one who sounded the alarm that it was a very serious strain yesterday, and, in fact, the House people are saying you're the one that got Hastert all freaked out so he's had to send everybody home.
(LAUGHTER)
DASCHLE: I do that to people; what can I say?
QUESTION: "Do you feel like it's less severe than you thought yesterday?" that's my question. Is it less serious than you thought yesterday?
DASCHLE: I'm not the expert on any one of these issues. Obviously, you've got Dr. First and this whole bank of highly qualified people.
What I heard yesterday was especially the aerosolization of the product was one that I think caused people to be more concerned.
Because it is so -- what...
BLITZER: What are we going to do with the audio?
Obviously, we're having some technical problems over here. Senator Tom Daschle briefing reporters, together with Senator Bill Frist of Tennessee, himself a medical doctor, Senator Trent Lott, the minority leader of the Senate, telling reporters, telling all of us who have been watching that so far they've only confirmed a hundred percent that there was some anthrax in the Hart Senate Office Building, in the office of the Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, and some next door in Senator Feingold's office.
In the Dirksen senate Office Building, in the mailroom, one initial test showed some positive spores in the mailroom, next door to the Hart Office Building. Senator Frist and Senator Daschle, as well as the deputy surgeon general of the United States, insisting that the anthrax that was discovered is, in their words, treatable. Senator Frist saying everything is under control, everyone will be OK. In his words, a garden variety type of anthrax was discovered.
Now, 31 people so far have tested positive for anthrax exposure: five law enforcement Capitol Hill Police officers, three staffers who work for Senator Feingold and 23 staffers who work for Senator Daschle. No evidence of spores in the ventilation system in those Senate office buildings, according to the deputy surgeon general.
And one additional point that they kept referring to, that all of the anthrax is susceptible to the antibiotics, not only the cipro, which has been so widely publicized in recent days, but penicillin and other antibiotics, as well.
Let's -- I guess if Jonathan Karl is there -- is Jonathan Karl there? Not there. Let's go to Dr. Victor Cohen of the Maimonedes Medical Center in New York, who himself is an expert on infectious diseases. First of all, what you heard right now, Dr. Cohen, at this news conference, what does it all say to you?
DR. VICTOR COHEN, PHARMACOLOGIST: Well, it basically tells me that it's being contained, that it's not in the ventilation system, which is very positive. It may be associated with the letters, and the management of the letters, that may have been associated with some form of aerosolization.
And in addition, the nasal swabs, realize that it takes 8,000 to 50,000 spores to truly cause the symptoms. And the fact is, is that we have been able to identify it quickly, and now the antibiotic therapy can initiate and basically be treating these patients. And therefore it's very safe at this point, and very positive news.
BLITZER: OK, Dr. Cohen. Please stand by, I want to bring you back. But I think we fixed our audio problems at a news conference. Let's go back, listen to the deputy surgeon general.
MORITSUGU: We are talking, probably about a couple hundred people, yes.
QUESTION: If those tests come back negative, tomorrow or next day -- do you still expect those people to (OFF-MIKE)?
MORITSUGU: Yes, we do. In an abundance of caution, we believe, looking at it from an epidemiological standpoint, that it is the prudent direction.
QUESTION: And can I ask a question here? We've got a lot of examples of agencies involved, and it would be very good to know what role everybody is playing in the response. And then, how you're going to clean up the offices that will be contaminated. If one particular agency will be -- if there is any, sort of, skills needed for that, if one particular agency is going to take care of that.
MORITSUGU: I can begin to address that, if I could. And that is that the response that is occurring here in this situation is truly a multiple departmental response.
The Department of Health and Human Services is very much involved here in providing whatever assistance we can provide. The District of Columbia Health Department is also here. The Department of Defense has provided additional resources and analysis, as well. And this is only to identify a small number of agencies that are working here in collaboration and in partnership.
FRIST: Let me very quickly. Roger Gibbs (ph) has been at this for about 30 years.
This is what he does everyday. He's program manager from DARPA. Before all of this even hit, he was in both the mailroom and around doing this. And Roger, why don't you take the question which basically is overall surveillance, what's being done? And then secondly, how's decontamination carried out? And then after it's carried out, do you have to worry about anything?
GIBBS (ph): Let me address that real quick. I think we touched on this earlier today and said that the FBI was called in initially after the Capitol Police had verified from the samples in the room. We've now transitioned beyond that. We don't need the Capitol Police taking additional samples. The FBI has released it as a crime scene.
So, now we're in the clean-up phase. DOD is going to coordinate those efforts for the additional sampling and the clean-up. We will have the Environmental Protection Agency, the same folks who've been working out in Florida, helping us with the decontamination. We're going to have the NIOSH portion of CDC providing the surveillance for us, both air samples and surface samples. That's the way we've divided this effort at this stage.
QUESTION: Can I ask a question of Senator Frist? From a layman's perspective, how did 25 or 31 people get exposed? You've ruled out so far -- or you haven't ruled out, but there's no evidence of exposure in the ventilation system. Clearly 31 people didn't handle the letter. So can somebody help us with how the exposure happened please?
FRIST: Again, real basic, anthrax bacteria spore around it. Three different kinds of disease; it's not different bacteria. It can either go in the air, in which case it can deposit in the nose or go down in the lungs. It can be through a cut on the skin. Or it can be ingested in food of some sort. Those are the three ways.
The nasal swabs, the 31 tests that you heard about today, to date -- and again, there may be more. Again, this was the first day. We'll have results back the next day and the next day, and don't be alarmed, just almost expect, maybe a few more -- that simply is an environmental test. You don't have the disease. These 31 people are not infected.
They don't have disease. They're not sick. It doesn't mean they'll get the disease.
What it means is in the environment, number one, aerosolization air, that there were spores deposited in the nose. Therefore, they're going to be treated because they were in an environment where those spores were for 60 days.
What was the question beyond that?
QUESTION: How did it happen?
FRIST: So it has to be in the air in some way. Is there any disagreement to that? It has to be in the air in some way.
The aerosolization of anthrax, as Senator Daschle mentioned, is something that a lot of people focus on. You have to get these particles down from a bunch of microns of size, a bunch of microns down to one or two microns in order to get from -- it will stay in the air for a period of time and in the nose, and then on down into the lungs.
So somewhere or another it's in the air. Does anybody disagree? Of these 31 people that we've seen.
QUESTION: You have a two-floor suite, fifth and sixth floor. Were the 31 people some of them on one floor and some of them on the other floor?
DASCHLE: I would also add to that from what I understand, I think there was some transfer of this from one person to the other on people's clothing. In other words, it was affixed to the clothing of one member of the staff. I know that after this all occurred, there were some hugs that you'd expect, and people were hugging each other, and I think maybe in that effort there could have been the transfer from one person to the next as well. That also, I'm told, can occur.
Do you want to add to that?
MORITSUGU: I'd like to the senator's response there. One, it's our understanding that there is an open stairwell in the senator's suite. And also, under the normal course of air movement in and our of doors, it's possible for the organism, the spores to move around in a building.
And that's the reason why, in doing the analysis -- the epidemiological analysis, we identified the fifth and sixth floors, based upon the mapping of where these individuals, the 31 who showed a positive nasal swab, were located.
BLITZER: Dr. Ken Moritsugu, the deputy surgeon general of the United States, together with Senator Daschle, Senator Lott, Senator Frist -- briefing reporters, briefing all of us on the latest anthrax exposures in the U.S. Senate.
The point they're making is that the situation, in their words, is under control. The anthrax is eminently treatable. The are these 31 positive exposures that have come through, and those individuals will be getting 60 days of the cipro, the antibiotic, which should do the job.
We're going to continue our coverage, speak to Dr. Kenneth Cohen, an expert on infectious diseases, get some perspective. And the rest of the day's developments, when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. With all the fears over anthrax and biological terrorism, should we be stocking up on antibiotics? For some perspective on that issue, we're joined once again by Victor Cohen, the chief of emergency pharmacology at Maimonedes Medical Center in Brooklyn, New York.
Dr. Cohen, what about whole issue of stocking up for the potential of bioterrorism? Should people rush out to their drug stores and get cipro, penicillin, other antibiotics?
COHEN: Absolutely not. We don't recommend it. And in addition, there is an enormous number of agents available for this incident. We have enough cipro, we have enough doxycycline. The government has push pack systems that are capable of bringing down 50,000 tons worth of cipro, doxycycline and amoxicillin.
And there are other alternatives, even if these are not available, or if a species resistant to these. So at this point, the question -- the real risk is, is the risk of side effects. And when this agent is overused, is the risk of resistance, where other organisms may not react or not be susceptible to cipro or some of the other agents able to be used for anthrax.
BLITZER: Dr. Cohen, what about those 31 individuals on Capitol Hill who have tested positive in their nasal swabs for the exposure to anthrax? They're now going to be on cipro for 60 days. Will they be able to go about their jobs, their day-to-day activities during those 60 days?
COHEN: Absolutely. Cipro is usually used for urinary tract infections for about 14 days, and it's quite safe. So the study shows cipro can be utilized for that long, and it is safe. Side effects that can occur are nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, possibly headache, as well. And there sometimes, if you don't drink enough water, you can have crystals form in your urine.
But usually, if you follow the correct directions, in terms of using cipro, you'll be fine. If you can't take cipro, because maybe you have an allergic reaction to it, you can take doxycylcine, and doxycycline is very effective. It's as effective as cipro, and it's actually cheaper. So therefore, you can also use doxycycline for the 60 days.
And if all else fails, you can use penicillin, so long as you're not allergic to penicillin as well.
BLITZER: We notice that yesterday, when those 1,000 people were given those preliminary tests, the nasal swabs, they were given three- day supplies of cipro, and told to take these for three days.
What happens if they just take them for three days and then they stop? Any negative side effects, as a result of that?
COHEN: No, there isn't. The whole plan is, if you test positive, you should continue the therapy for the 60 days, for the full course, because that's how it's been studied. And we have found that you will have long term survival with using the 60-day therapy.
It hasn't been studied for three days, and that's why we don't recommend it for only three-day therapy, unless you test negative. If you're negative, once you test negative, it's OK to, inevitably, discontinue therapy.
BLITZER: So you shouldn't finish out the full run of the prescription. Is that what you're saying? COHEN: Exactly. Unless -- again, unless symptoms do -- or you feel symptoms abruptly onset coming. And then you would have to return to your physician, at that point.
BLITZER: And what would be the major symptom that our viewers would be interested in knowing? What should they be looking for?
COHEN: Well, a cough is the classic symptom. You can also have fever, malaise, and weakness, are the classic symptoms, very similar to the flu. Except you won't probably have as much of the nasal feeling of the flu. But you will you have cough as the classic symptom.
Cutaneously, you will have an oval or blister-like lesion that will form over the next two days into a -- from a red to a vesicular, sort of what you see in chicken pox, but only one, and then it will blacken, sort of like an eschar, what we call a black eschar. And then basically, that forms into a scab, and that scab usually is self- limited unless you have -- unless there is a risk for injecting yourself with it, sort of subcutaneous injection, and it getting into your bloodstream. And that's where it could cause this -- a similar reaction or a disseminated reaction into your body.
BLITZER: Dr. Cohen, thanks for your useful advice. We appreciate it very much.
And for those of our viewers who want to learn more about all of this, you can go to my Web site, cnn.com/wolf. Read my daily online column there as well.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. President Bush is on his way to China to attend an economic summit in Shanghai. He left just a short while ago from California. Before his departure, the president spoke to Air Force men and women at Travis Air Force Base.
CNN senior White House correspondent John King traveling with the president. He'll be leaving in a little while.
John, first of all, give us reaction from the White House to these latest developments, the increased anthrax exposures here in Washington.
JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the president was informed last night of word that so many of those staffers in Senator Tom Daschle's office were exposed to anthrax. The president keeping track of developments here as he traveled to California today, Wolf.
Of course, the anthrax square one reason many question whether the president should take this trip at all. Another, the ongoing military campaign overseas. But Mr. Bush making the case here at his stop in California before heading on to China that this was a critical trip.
While in Shanghai, he will meet with the leaders of China and Russia. He will speak to the leaders of Japan and South Korea, all critical countries, he says, in, No. 1, the financial crackdown on terrorism: freezing and seizing the assets of terrorist groups.
Mr. Bush making clear in his speech here in California he views this trip as critical to not only strengthening but perhaps expanding the global coalition to fight terrorism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: The main thing that will be on my mind is to continue to rally the world against terrorists: to remind people that it happened to us, sure, but it could happen to them as well; to remind them that evil knows no borders, no boundaries; and remind them that we must take a stand, that those of us who have been given the responsibility of high office must not shirk from our duty, that now is the time to claim freedom for future generations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: In an earlier speech to business leaders in Sacramento, Mr. Bush said the trip also critical as he tries to work out new trade agreements around the world, new efforts to give the global economy a boost. But in that speech, Mr. Bush used his most explicit language yet in making clear one major goal of the U.S. military strikes is to help the Northern Alliance and other opposition forces within Afghanistan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: We're paving the way for friendly troops to defeat the Taliban and root out the al Qaeda parasites that the Taliban hosts and protects. We're enforcing the doctrine that says this: If you harbor the terrorists, you are guilty of terror, and like the terrorists, you will be held responsible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Fighter jets flying over above us here. It might be difficult to hear me, Wolf. The president also in a roundtable with Asian editors, making clear again this will be a long campaign. He said, quote, "You mark my words: People are going to get tired of the war on terrorism, and by the way, it may take more than two years." But in that interview and in his remarks here today, the president once again saying even if the American public grows tired, he will press on with that war, once again using the words "I will not waver" -- Wolf.
BLITZER: John -- John, we heard you just fine despite those planes flying over your head. But explain to our viewers what the president meant when he said that the U.S. will support, will work with friendly forces. Was that a specific endorsement of the Northern Alliance, the anti-Taliban force in Northern Afghanistan, and how does that fit into what Secretary of State Powell said this week, that the U.S. might be willing to find a role for so-called "moderate" Taliban representatives in a new government in Afghanistan? KING: Well, the administration makes clear it is not just supporting the Northern Alliance, but some of those military strikes, especially just outside of the capital of Kabul and elsewhere in northern Afghanistan, clearly have helped strategically the Northern Alliance campaign in the north. There are some other militias in the south and elsewhere that the administration says can also move on Taliban forces perhaps.
So the administration not explicitly endorsing the Northern Alliance, but certainly helping it. And as you noted, it is a sensitive matter. Pakistan, for one, does not want the Northern Alliance to be the predominate party in any new government in Afghanistan.
So Secretary Powell saying all would be welcome, there should be some form of a coalition, opening the door even to some moderate members of the Taliban.
This right now a theory, if you will: The-military campaign goes on. But the Bush administration asking the former king of Afghanistan as well as the United Nations to take a much more active role and to move more quickly now as the strikes continue to try to form some kind of a coalition that could -- emphasis on could -- replace the Taliban.
BLITZER: John King in California, getting ready to board a press charter flight to fly to Shanghai, catch up with the president in China.
Thanks once again for joining us. Have a safe trip yourself.
And up next, making the workplace secure: an expert takes your online chat questions at cnn.com/community.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
Fears of terrorism can cause major disruptions for companies, of course. Let's go live to Joie Chen in Atlanta for some perspective on this -- Joie.
CHEN: Wolf, we have an interactive chat under way at cnn.com/community right now on the specific issue, the subject of security in the workplace. With us now to answer your questions on that issue is Bruce Blythe. He's the CEO of Crisis Management International.
Bruce, we appreciate you being with us.
Let's get right to questions that we're getting from our Web chat audience right now. If we can bring up the first question for Bruce. I don't see it there, but oh, here we go.
La Mirada, Califoria asks: "What is the most practical, simplest safety step we can take in the workplace?" BRUCE BLYTHE, CRISIS MANAGEMENT INTERNATIONAL: Well, our company, Crisis Management International, specializes in the human side of crisis. And we've helped over 200 companies in New York and Washington, D.C. and all across the country. So we are familiar with the things that corporate leaders are doing now.
CHEN: But what do you tell workers? I mean, how do you tell them? What do you tell them to do: the best thing we can do to protect ourselves as workers?
BLYTHE: Well, I think the first thing is that there's a couple of issues. One is that there's the real issue that is going on, and that is that there is some exposure to terrorism now. The other thing is that there is a perceived threat out there right now that people are having. And I think corporate leaders at this point in time need to communicate to their employees, with information and education, about what they are doing, and if, in fact, there is exposure, what do they need to recognize and what do they need to do if they feel like they are exposed.
CHEN: All right, I've got another question here from the Web chat audience, from Sacramento, California, where the president has been this afternoon: "How many companies know whether their central incoming air duct is protected from outsiders?"
BLYTHE: I'm sorry. I didn't hear the question.
CHEN: "How many companies know whether their central incoming air duct is protected from outsiders?" I guess it speaks to the kind of fears people have. Are companies under an obligation to know, you know, here are the sources, here are the places where something bad could be introduced into our air system, for example?
BLYTHE: Well, what I hear you saying is that, that outsiders -- what we can do to keep outsiders from coming in and to help protect ourselves from that?
CHEN: Sure, yeah.
BLYTHE: Well, one of the things is that certainly corporate leaders need to take physical security measures. For example, they need to harden their buildings to make sure that bombs cannot be placed in dumpsters, in boxes, that sort of thing, to control their areas of ingress and egress, to make sure that people aren't coming in that shouldn't be in, and to tell employees, to give them a sense of control, to let them know not to piggy back, not to let other people in. It's the polite thing to do, but in these cases, let's don't let the people in that we don't know into our workplace.
CHEN: We can't be that loose. I just need to get a quick question to you, and it really does pertain to all of us in any workplace. But I am wondering what your perspective is on this: How confident are we about these security guards in workplaces?
Right, I mean, this is a question from Atlanta, Georgia. It seems to me that every company now seems to have security all over the place. I'm not sure how much of that security is really qualified at this point? And what limit do (UNINTELLIGIBLE)? Does every store, does every office need to have a guard in it? Should it be armed?
BLYTHE: Well, I think again we're dealing with perception here as well as reality. The overwhelming probability is that any given employee (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is not going to be affected by terrorism, in reality. The perception, though, is that people are afraid, and many times security guards are set up there to help with the perception that our workplace is safer and also to let people know if there's somebody suspicious coming around, that sort of thing.
But I think employees can be certainly eyes and ears for each other. This helps them have a better sense of control. But as much as security guards are important, they have their place -- I think there's also, it's important that employees know that they need to know where they can tell somebody, if they need to have a threat notification system, for example, on what to do if, in fact, they see somebody suspicious or suspicious package, and what to do if they feel threatened.
CHEN: Bruce Blythe, Crisis Management International is his company. We appreciate your being with us and giving us answers for our Web chat audience. And Wolf, those folks at cnn.com/community are still talking about this important issue.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Joie, and it was important.
Joining us you now for more on this entire anthrax investigation, CNN bioterrorism analyst Javed Ali.
Javed, we've been reporting, as you have heard on this program, that the preliminary test results are in from the CDC, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, showing that the strain of anthrax discovered in the letter mailed to Tom Brokaw at NBC News, the same kind of anthrax that was delivered to the American Media, the supermarket tabloid publication building in Boca Raton, Florida. What does that say to you?
JAVED ALI, CNN BIOTERRORISM ANALYST: It suggests -- and this is just an inference -- but it's a suggestion that the source from New York and the source from Florida are the same. So whether the group or the individuals, whomever sponsored these incidents, it could possibly tie back to just one possible source instead of multiple sources.
BLITZER: And so -- and we don't know obviously at this point where those sources are. But you heard the news conference, Senator Daschle and his colleagues -- they had the deputy surgeon general -- 31 individuals so far are exposed. But they also made a point of saying this was a garden-style variety of anthrax. Yesterday, we heard "weaponized, professional." What does that mean?
ALI: There may have been -- or appears to be some confusion with respect to identifying precisely what type of, you know, what was the quality of this material. And I think some of that confusion may have been generated because we have more information today than we had yesterday.
With respect to the garden-style issue, I think what that refers to is the fact that this is a naturally occurring strain: I'm not sure what that strain is, but naturally occurring strain, whether that strain is naturally occurring to the United States or another part of the world.
BLITZER: Well, yesterday, you heard the widely reported suspicion, because it was supposedly a very precise strain, that it was in effect weaponized and could only have been made by a state sponsor of terrorism.
ALI: I wouldn't -- I wouldn't at this point draw that conclusion at this point, because we just don't have enough information as to what was the property of the material, how is the sort of organism generated in this powder, what were other sort of technical issues with respect to, you know, consistency, concentration, things of that nature.
BLITZER: So even though 31 people have been exposed, they seem to be ratcheting down the threat concern. That would be my impression.
ALI: Right, and I think that is a good thing at this point, that's a positive development.
BLITZER: OK, Javed Ali, our CNN bioterrorism analyst. Thanks for joining us.
ALI: Thank you.
BLITZER: And that's all the time we have, but I'll be back in one hour with much more coverage of the anthrax investigations. I'll also get perspective from the former CIA director, James Woolsey. Until then, thanks very much for watching.
For Joie Chen, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. CNN's coverage of "America's New War" continues next with Lou Dobbs.
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