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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
America Strikes Back: Another Case of Anthrax Discovered; Word of U.S. Troops on the Ground in Afghanistan
Aired October 19, 2001 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Today on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: "America Strikes Back."
Another case of anthrax at a media company. This time, the "New York Post." As investigators follow the footsteps of a New Jersey mail carrier, are they closing in on the source?
With the anthrax in several of the cases said to come from the same batch, bioterrorism experts tell CNN the powder's professional quality suggests a sophisticated plot.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't have knowledge of a direct link of the anthrax incidents to the enemy, but I wouldn't put it past them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: As Vice President Cheney makes a rare public appearance, there's word that some U.S. troops have shown up on the ground in Afghanistan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have no alternative but to meet the enemy where he dwells.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: We'll get a military analysis, and we'll go live to our correspondents in New York, New Jersey and the Pentagon, as "America Strikes Back."
Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting today from Washington, where officials say they're making some headway in their broadening anthrax investigations. We'll have extensive coverage this hour, including a live interview with a man who believes he can make the mail safe from anthrax.
But first, we're following a breaking story. Let's get the latest developments. Here's CNN's Donna Kelley in Atlanta -- Donna.
DONNA KELLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf, thanks very much, and good afternoon to you.
We're just getting information out Philadelphia that police found a suitcase inside a locker at a Greyhound bus station in Philadelphia, and it had C-4 explosives in it. According to a sergeant with the police department, there was enough there, he says, to take out the terminal. But they have removed it, they have taken it to the police headquarters, and they do plan to blow it up. They found it with military detonation cord, but no blasting cap. One official described the explosives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... what we have recovered was 1/3 of a pound of C-4, which is high explosives, and approximately 1,000 feet of military detonation cord. This is all military grade.
QUESTION: Where would they get that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Military.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The question is who put it there. Now, the assumption is, they probably put there it for a two-day period, meant to come back, obviously did not get back in time, if they were coming back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLEY: And apparently there was no letter or threat inside the bag. They think that this bag has been in -- when a cleaning person found it, in this locker since the beginning of October. Bus service was halted for a couple of hours. They did some evacuations around the area of some buildings and closed a couple of streets, within this area around that area.
But there was a third of a pound of C-4 explosives, as you heard, about the size of a bar of soap. So once again, seems to be under control at this point, and the investigation carries on.
Other latest developments for you, the government's Homeland Security chief says that the FBI has identified a mailbox in New Jersey where anthrax was mailed to NBC and to Senator Tom Daschle. Earlier, agents combed a postal route in Ewing Township, which is served by a letter-carrier who has a confirmed anthrax infection. The route consists mostly of homes, but also has apartments and several businesses.
Also in New Jersey, late this afternoon, officials confirmed an anthrax infection at the postal distribution center in the city of Hamilton. The mail from Ewing Township, where the infected carrier works, feeds to the center in Hamilton, where this second infection now has been confirmed. Earlier today, workers at the center were encouraged to begin a program of antibiotics to ward against anthrax infection.
A fourth case of anthrax was reported today in New York at another media outlet. The "New York Post" announced that they have a 32-year-old editorial assistant who tested positive last evening for the skin form of anthrax. A spokesperson for the paper said that part of the worker's job is to open letters to the editor.
In a briefing today with reporters, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said the United States military is directly supporting anti- Taliban rebels. Rumsfeld said that the United States is giving the rebels food, ammunition and money. The Associated Press quotes a rebel commander as saying that U.S. personnel have been holding talks with opposition leaders in northern Afghanistan.
In a departure from what happened last week, the United States did not suspend attacks on the Muslim holy day. Blasts were heard late at night in the Taliban stronghold of Kandahar. And also today, a senior Pentagon official confirmed to CNN that a limited number of elite ground forces are operating now on Afghan soil.
We'll have more on that story in just a moment. First, though, back to you, Wolf, for more the latest on the anthrax story.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Donna.
And as Donna just reported, the government's homeland security chief announced today the FBI has identified a box in New Jersey from which anthrax was mailed. Within the past hour, the special agent in charge of the case refused to confirm that information, and said her investigation continues.
Either way, it appears the federal government has a major break today in the effort to find who is responsible for the anthrax mailings. CNN's Brian Palmer brings us the latest now from Hamilton Township, in New Jersey -- Brian.
BRIAN PALMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Wolf. I'll get to the investigation in a minute, but first, a correction. I have been trying not to add to this -- this cloud of confusion about the reporting. In the last hour I reported that there were two anthrax- related incidents in the Trenton area there.
There are actually three, the newest being a confirmed case in a mail -- a mail sorter, 35 years old, from Levittown, Pennsylvania. Confirmed case of cutaneous anthrax. That is in addition to the confirmed case of a female letter carrier from the west Trenton facility. The third case is a suspected -- what's being called a possible case of cutaneous anthrax. The two -- the confirmed female letter carrier and the possible case, these people are at home, they're being treated.
Now, to the investigation. The director for homeland security, Tom Ridge, today shed a very bright light on what's going on in this investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LINDA VIZI, FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Now that we do have one postal worker who has positively been identified, it provides the FBI with a source for continued specific investigation. We are now able to concentrate on this individual's roots and her daily activities with the post office, in order to try to find out the source of the anthrax.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PALMER: Now, that was the special agent who spoke earlier this afternoon. Tom Ridge basically said that the site where these anthrax-tainted letters were mailed was identified. The special agent would not explicitly confirm that, but the investigation does continue -- Wolf?
BLITZER: Brian, and how are the regular mail carriers over there reacting to all of this?
PALMER: Well, the mail is being delivered. We spoke to a spokesperson for the postal service this morning. She said their handling about 60 percent of the normal volume. The other 40 percent is being directed to other facilities.
Now, there are some concerns among some of the postal workers about possible exposures to anthrax, so the New Jersey Department of Health has recommended that workers at both facilities go to their local hospitals take a seven day precautionary course of Cipro -- Wolf?
BLITZER: And just to clarify once again, Brian, there are now three postal workers who have been confirmed, the exposure, to the cutaneous, or skin form, of anthrax -- is that correct?
PALMER: OK, three -- three confirmed exposures, two confirmed diagnoses with anthrax. So we're sort of mixing words here. But if we can just very clearly say, three anthrax-related incidents, two diagnoses with the disease, one possible diagnosis, but most likely has been exposed, does have the disease, but the Department of Health is not saying definitively what that status is.
BLITZER: OK, Brian Palmer in New Jersey, thanks for that clarification.
And let's move on now to anthrax, finding its way into a fourth media outlet in New York City. First there was NBC, then ABC and CBS yesterday. Now the "New York Post." CNN's Michael Okwu is in New York with that part of the story -- Michael.
MICHAEL OKWU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, good afternoon to you. This time it is a woman again, and it is cutaneous anthrax that she has tested positive for. The woman is an assistant to editorial page editor of the "New York Post." Among her many duties, is handling the mail for this particular editor, although at this point, authorities cannot say what the source of the anthrax was. "Post" officials say that the 32-year-old woman noticed a blister on one of her fingers on September 22. She later had that blister tested, with a biopsy which came back negative. But a blood test came back positive for cutaneous anthrax.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LACHLAN MURDOCH, CHAIRMAN, "NEW YORK POST": We're very happy to be able to say that our staff member no longer has anthrax. She was treated and she has made a full recovery. She is now back at work, and has been incredibly brave and courageous through this whole affair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OKWU: Now, three other employees of the "New York Post" who were experiencing flu-like symptoms were also tested, but we can tell you that those tests came back negative -- Wolf?
BLITZER: Michael Okwu in New York, thank you very much.
And as you'll recall, anthrax first turned up in Florida, then in New York City. And up to this point, most experts in biological weapons believe the source to be homegrown extremists. But as CNN's David Ensor reports, the experts now fear it's worse than they though.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As they announced that the anthrax found in Florida, at NBC New York and in a Washington Senate office were indistinguishable from each other, administration officials also sought to reduce concern about the incidents.
TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY DIRECTOR: The tests to date also have shown it's a word that is put quotes around, term of art, new language -- the tests have shown that these strains have not been, quote/unquote, "weaponized."
ENSOR: But Richard Spertzel, who knows as much about anthrax as almost any American, having worked on biological weapons years ago and having helped to destroy Iraq's weapons after the Gulf War, has a different view, based just on what's publicly known.
He says the news that many people in two offices were found to have anthrax exposure, apparently from just one letter to Senator Daschle. That one fact alone suggests the senders knew what they were doing.
RICHARD SPERTZEL, BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS EXPERT: The fact that so many of the individuals at least have evidence of exposure, direct exposure with material in their nostrils, only from the opening of the letter, that's what you would expect of weapons grade material.
ENSOR: Elissa Harris handled biological weapons issues for the Clinton White House. She, too, is shocked by the apparent quality of the deadly powder in the Daschle office.
ELISSA HARRIS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE OFFICIAL: There are a number of, what are called tricks of the trade, that would make a quantity of anthrax spores able to aerosolize, to go into air and to remain aloft, to remain alive, viable, through the period in which those spores are inhaled. And that information is not widely available, and would most likely be held by people that had knowledge of how to make anthrax for biological weapons purposes.
ENSOR: The Daschle office anthrax became airborne so easily that Spertzel says just getting it into the envelope was a dangerous operation, requiring great skill.
SPERTZEL: That is so readily airborne ,that it would take special precautions to put it into the envelope, without affecting the safety of the individuals. And by safety, I mean killing them.
ENSOR: Both say the timing of the attacks, so soon after September 11th, suggests they were likely coordinated by the same people. After all, there was much to do to prepare for the anthrax attacks.
HARRIS: It takes time to produce it, and then you have to put it in mail. So if you work the timeline back, it corresponds, in rough terms, with the sort of middle part of September.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: In a further effort to allay concern, given the fact that, although they're saying it's not weaponized anthrax, one man did die of it in Florida, the Surgeon General Dr. David Satcher said that it is possible to receive inhaled anthrax, even if it hasn't been weaponized, even if it isn't down to one to five microns, which is the generally accepted weaponized size.
This may sound a semantical discussion, Wolf, but behind it is obviously an effort to figure out what skill level did the people have who made this anthrax. And if that can be figured out, it may be a lot easier to figure out who did it.
BLITZER: And what are they suspicious of right now? Which direction is it leading towards -- homegrown U.S. extremists, or international terrorists?
ENSOR: I'd really have to say that both are possibilities at this point. And you're hearing, to and fro, even in the report I just gave -- on the one hand, the U.S. trying to allay concerns, saying it isn't -- quote -- "weaponized," unquote. On the other hand, experts saying, look, 28 or so people got it into their noses, at least exposed to it. That suggests a rather sophisticated maker of anthrax.
BLITZER: David Ensor, thanks for joining us.
And we are following a breaking story in Philadelphia, where today a bus station, a Greyhound bus station, police found a suitcase packed with explosives. John Timoney, the police commissioner in Philadelphia, is joining us now by the telephone.
Commissioner Timoney, tell us what the latest information you have on this incident at the Greyhound bus station.
COMM. JOHN TIMONEY, PHILADELPHIA POLICE: Yeah, we recovered a suitcase that was left in -- was put in 929 at about 2:43 in the morning. It was not claimed, it was taken out of the locker on the 3rd of October, and put in a storage room, where it usually stays for two or three weeks, then they give the old cloths the homeless.
Well, today when they checked it, they found it contained a reel of about a thousand-feet detcord, which is a high explosive, clearly, Army detcord -- and about a third of the stick, or block, of C-4, again, another high explosive. And there was no detonator caps, which is the third ingredient that would have been needed.
In any event, they have both been tested and found to be high caliber, military caliber. And the investigation begins: who put it there, why did they not come back, were they picked ahead of time, or did they come back and saw that it had been removed and were afraid to come forward, obviously, and claim their bomb, or bomb-making materials.
We think we have some good forensic evidence. And there was some videotape, which was confiscated. It's of poor quality, but we're trying to enhance it right now.
BLITZER: When you say you have some good forensic evidence potentially, out there -- fingerprints? Identification markers on the suitcase?
TIMONEY: Well, a few things. Fingerprints, it looks like some fibers, we may be able to get some DNA. And hopefully we get that, in conjunction, if we can get this video, with the help of the Secret Service, to get it enhanced. Hopefully we'll come up with something.
BLITZER: Has the FBI or federal law enforcement been brought into this investigation?
TIMONEY: Yeah, everybody. The FBI, ATF, the terrorist task force, of which we're a member -- are obviously all on the scene.
BLITZER: And, basically the next step right now is, the suitcase and the evidence has been handed over to whom? Who is looking at all of that?
TIMONEY: Right now, our folks, the ATF and the Philadelphia detectives are handling the case right now, in conjunction with the FBI. But it's the ATF and the Philadelphia detectives.
BLITZER: And basically, what you're saying -- there was no real danger, since the ingredients to make a bomb were not necessarily in place, is that right?
TIMONEY: Yes. To ignite that, you need one other element, which is a blasting cap, or some kind of a super charger to get it going. But it had the potential, obviously, of creating quite a bit of damage.
BLITZER: Very briefly, how much damage could that potential have been?
TIMONEY: It could have taken that building down, the terminal itself. So there was potential, but again, without the blasting caps -- and so my sense is, whoever put it there was meant not to blow up the station, but meant to just store it there for a short period of time and pick it up. And for some reason, never showed up, or showed up too late.
BLITZER: The Philadelphia police commissioner, John Timoney, thanks for joining us and giving us that update.
TIMONEY: Thanks, Wolf.
BLITZER: We appreciate it.
And for weeks, U.S. officials have talked about the eventual deployment of American special forces in Afghanistan. According to a senior U.S. official, that's now taking place, but in a limited way. Their presence marks a turning point, though, in the U.S.-led war against terrorism.
CNN military affairs correspondent Jamie McIntyre is covering all of this for us at the Pentagon. Jamie, give us the latest.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, it does appear, Wolf, that according to U.S. officials that there are U.S. special forces on the ground in Afghanistan. But I'm not sure we have actually reached that turning point yet, where those troops are being used in direct combat operations.
According to a senior Pentagon official, some troops in the north are engaged on a liaison mission with the anti-Taliban forces, the Northern Alliance, in order to better coordinate with them, get them direct aid and get better intelligence on the ground. In addition, another U.S. official, not in the Pentagon, indicated that there are also troops operating in the south.
It's something that the Pentagon is not going to comment on until there has been a significant event, or they can talk about exactly what these troops are doing. But it does appear that the bulk of the special operations force is remaining, right now, in the wings, so to speak, on the aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk, where they are poised in case they are needed for combat operations.
Meanwhile, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, who flew out to Whiteman Air Force base, home of the B-2 bombers, today, told reporters en route, again, that the outcome in this war is not certain, and victory will not necessarily be swift.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: It's going to take time, and the people on the ground there are very tough. They have been fighting each other, and others, for a long time. They are survivors. They know the terrain. They know how to move around in that terrain. And it is going to be a lot easier, in my view, to try to persuade a number of them to oppose the Taliban and to oppose Al Qaeda, and to help defeat them, than it is to in fact defeat them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: More cockpit video show the concentration of firepower on Taliban forces, of barracks destroyed near Kandahar, near Jalalabad. We see a surface-to-surface missile site here, being destroyed along with a tank, that was protecting it. Unlike last Friday, there was no bombing -- let-up in the bombing for the Muslim sabbath. That is something that the Pentagon says that it is not necessarily committed to do -- Wolf?
BLITZER: Jamie, very briefly, you say a surface-to-surface missile -- would that be a scud missile?
MCINTYRE: Well, that was a question answered at the Pentagon. They didn't identify precisely what kind of missile, but a scud is a surface-to-surface missile.
BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre, thank you very much.
And for some reaction to these latest developments, I spoke earlier with CNN's Nic Robertson in the Pakistani capital of Islamabad, and Matthew Chance in the Afghan territory controlled by forces of the Northern Alliance.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Matthew, how are they reacting in the Northern Alliance forces, to reports that the U.S. now has special operations forces on the ground inside Afghanistan?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, to be honest, they haven't reacted at all. As yet, we've been trying to contact Northern Alliance officials throughout the course of today. We haven't any reaction from them yet. No indication about what role Northern Alliance forces may or may not be playing in some kind of coordinated military effort, along with these forces of the United States that have been deployed, supposedly, in the south of Afghanistan.
In the past, though, Northern Alliance officials have said that their forces would be willing to share intelligence gathering capabilities in exchange for some kind of military backing to achieve their objectives, from the United States -- Wolf?
BLITZER: Nic, you're in Islamabad. What are they saying over there, the Pakistanis, about these reports?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So far the Pakistanis, again, here, haven't really had time to react to this. Certainly their view is that the strikes on Afghanistan should be short. There is a concern here that the air campaign could go on too long, so anything that could truncate the air campaign and bring about a change of the political leadership inside Afghanistan, if that is the end game plan of whatever makeup that leadership could be, will be favored by Pakistan.
They are afraid of large numbers of refugees, they're afraid of an outcry and a reaction against continued bombardment. There is a sense here -- we've seen it not only from hard line Islamic radicals, but also from the professional classes, that they're beginning to feel the bombing campaign is going on too long -- indications, they're hearing, of civilians being injured, or be it collateral damage. But it is raising concerns. The Pakistani government very pleased to see whatever can bring this to a speedy conclusion -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Nic Robertson in Islamabad, thank you very much. Matthew Chance in Northern Afghanistan, thanks to both of you, once again.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And what might those U.S. special operations forces be doing on the ground in Afghanistan? We'll get some perspective from a retired U.S. Army general, who himself was a former special operations force. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. The pregnant widow of a passenger who fought back against hijackers on September 11th is making a symbolic gesture against fear.
Lisa Beamer retraced her husband's steps by boarding the same flight he took. United flight 81 took off from Newark to San Francisco this morning. The airline renamed the route after flight 93 crashed in Pennsylvania more than a month ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LISA BEAMER, WIDOW OF FLIGHT 93 VICTIM: I've decided to fly commercially today because I want to support our president and his efforts to encourage Americans not to be held captive by terrorism. Our nation's commercial airplanes are a vital part of our economic stability, and I wanted to lend my voice in their support. It is my desire to memorialize the heroic acts of my husband and the other passengers of flight 93, as a way to help America rebound, physically, financially and emotionally, from the events of September 11th.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: The airline industry is doing its part to help ease passengers' fears. Everything from additional armed patrols at airports to high-tech detectors are being used to beef up security. CNN's Gary Strieker looks at some new and old security machines from around the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) GARY STRIEKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In security clampdowns at U.S. airports, authorities are checking I.D.s, searching baggage and confiscated anything that might be used as weapons. And behind the scenes, a compelling search for new technology to make commercial air travel more secure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's no doubt. There's a sense of urgency that wasn't there before.
STRIEKER: At this conference in Atlanta, delegates from governments and airlines around the world see new aviation security technology.
Others are here to sell it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a biometrics product. It's used for access control points.
STRIEKER: Computers with powerful software can be used for positive identification, based on facial features, eyes or fingerprints.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I were a terrorist, I would be stopped from accessing either that flight, or in the first place, from purchasing a ticket.
STRIEKER: Some new devices specialize in detecting explosives in baggage, like this CAT scan that automatically identifies explosive material.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're taking a cross-sectional view 360 degrees all the way through that bag, as if you're slicing though a loaf of bread.
STRIEKER: But there's a problem with ultra-sensitive technology: false alarms. A San Francisco airport terminal was evacuated this week when a bag triggered an explosive detection alarm. The bag contained a child's toy, some magazines and parts from a video recorder.
Suppliers of some detection systems, like this one using a molecular-based technique, promise few false alarms.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the first system that really has an extremely low alarm rate.
STRIEKER: Much of this technology is expensive, costing millions. But there are cheaper, more basic systems that are not so new. Like this X-ray machine with a giant screen, used exclusively by Israel's El Al airline for many years, now on the market for others around the world to buy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The faster instruments, I think, are not as accurate as this one.
STRIEKER: But analysts say the U.S. airline industry should avoid rushing into any new technology.
CHRIS YATES, JANE'S AIRPORT REVIEW: What it needs to do now is to stand back from that knee-jerk reaction and take a long, cold, hard look at the problems that are faced by U.S. airports, and then bring technology to bear to address that.
STRIEKER: Authorities and airlines are now considering some security technology they've ignored until now, including this system for blast-hardened luggage containers -- a last defense, if detection systems fail.
A container explosion like this caused the tragedy of Pan Am flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988. If the bomb had exploded inside one of these containers, the plane and its passengers might have survived. They've been on the market for several years, approved by the Federal Aviation Administration, but not one U.S. air carrier has bought them.
Gary Strieker, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And let's get some perspective on the introduction of U.S. special operations forces on the ground in Afghanistan. Joining us now is CNN military analyst, retired U.S. Army General David Grange.
General Grange, thanks for joining us.
What does it say this confirmation that we have that at least some limited numbers of special operations forces are now on the ground inside Afghanistan?
GENERAL DAVID GRANGE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: There may be special operations forces. There may be also other types military forces on the ground. But obviously coordinating for weapons ammunition, food and information with the Northern Alliance or United Front for future operations.
BLITZER: What other kind of forces besides special operations forces are you suggesting could be on the ground?
GRANGE: It may be some intelligence outfits. There could be other ones, information -- like public affairs outfits that support the psychological warfare units and the civil affairs units.
BLITZER: So when people are hearing for the first time today that there might be some U.S. troops on the ground, would you sense based on your experience that this would be mostly an intelligence- gathering operation? Certainly not ready for combat, would they be?
GRANGE: Well, a few things. They may be coordinating to provide information from the current situation on a terrain, the alliance or even the enemy situation back to the allied command for future operations. They are also -- which is very important -- establishing trust with boots on the ground that you can not get at 10,000 feet. So by doing this they show a commitment of our soldiers, our people, Americans on the ground to go the distance for this campaign.
BLITZER: You also point out that the psychological operations are significant, trying to win the hearts and minds of the Afghan people. We have a map of Afghanistan. And I'm going to go to our telestrator, General Grange, and take a look at what we're hearing.
Right now they're saying -- if we take a look at what the reports are suggesting -- if we look in the southern part of Afghanistan, around here, perhaps near Kandahar is where these U.S. troops, these special operations forces may be operating. Is there any particular reason why they may be moving in the southern part of Afghanistan as opposed to the northern part? This area up here is the area where the northern part -- where the Northern Alliance is in control. The opposition to the Taliban.
GRANGE: I would have expected them to be in the north, just as you indicated. If they happen to be in the south, I would think that's a tougher area. If they could get in, that's probably to coordinate with some of the splinter groups that may be breaking away from the Taliban in support of the Northern Alliance.
BLITZER: If we get back to the map around Kandahar, this is the area where the stronghold for the Taliban have often been suggested around here. If you look at the map, the reports are also suggesting there may be not three bases inside Pakistan -- over here nearby -- from which U.S. troops could be operating. Those would obviously be a lot more significant than all the way down south in the area near the Indian Ocean. Isn't that right?
GRANGE: That's correct. Obviously they're within launch range to do some kind of coordination. It may just be humanitarian supplies, but it can also be for combat search and rescue in case we lose an aircraft in the area during the combat operations.
BLITZER: There are some other areas -- if we go back to the map one more time -- up here in the north in Uzbekistan, where there could be some U.S. bases, facilities as well. General, there have been disasters involving U.S. special operations forces in the past in Mogadishu in Somalia. Desert One, the ill-fated effort to capture the American hostages in Iran almost 20 years ago. What lessons from some of the mistakes have been learned that can be avoided this time around?
GRANGE: First of all, if you're going to put special operators or any soldiers, sailors, Marines or airmen on the ground, we have to support them 100 percent. We have to go the distance with them. If we have a short setback for a while, we have to pick it up and move out and complete the mission. We can't let that persuade us not to accomplish the goal of defeating terrorism or in this case defeating the Taliban Al Qaeda in Afghanistan.
Most of these units are very good. The soldiers are trained exceptionally well. They are volunteers. They have gone to several very austere courses to learn the tricks of the trade. We have to trust them on the ground and let them do their job to accomplish the mission for us. BLITZER: Let me switch gears very quickly, General Grange. You heard the breaking news story we've been reporting this hour about the explosives found at the greyhound bus station in Philadelphia, including what's described as C-4, the explosive about the size of a bar of soap. I know that in your earlier days when you were in active duty military service you dealt with C-4. What does that say to you? C-4 about the size of a bar of soap?
GRANGE: That means it's about half the size of what the piece of C-4 normally comes in. It comes in a 1 1/4 pound block, as I recall. It's more powerful than dynamite. It's very easily molded to a target. It's usually used for cutting. It's used on raids to destroy targets. It's very safe to move. You can move it safely in a pack on a soldier's back or you can move it safely in a suitcase on a bus.
BLITZER: And obviously that little piece of a bar of soap can do a lot of damage, though, is that right?
GRANGE: Absolutely. It would definitely destroy that bus.
BLITZER: General Grange, thanks for joining us. For your insight on a variety of issues, we appreciate it.
GRANGE: Thank you.
BLITZER: Thank you. We'll update you on the latest developments in America's war on terrorism. And can the same technology that kills bacteria in your food be used to destroy anthrax? We'll talk about that with someone who knows about a new device. And the vice president back in the spotlight, talking about America's fight against evil.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. In just a moment I'll talk with the chairman of the House subcommittee on national security, Christopher Shays. But first here's Donna Kelley in Atlanta with a check of the latest developments. Donna.
KELLEY: Hi, Wolf. Thanks very much and good afternoon to you. A key turning point has happened in the U.S.-led attacks in Afghanistan. We check that for you as officials say that U.S. special forces are now on the ground in Afghanistan operating in small numbers. Pentagon officials say that these troops are experts at developing intelligence and training forces, like those of the Afghan opposition, the Northern Alliance. The officials say that the U.S. forces are not engaging in direct combat activity.
U.S. warplanes continue bombing raids over Afghanistan today. The airstrikes focused on Taliban targets in the capital of Kabul and the southern city of Kandahar. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld today said that the U.S. is providing food, ammunition and money to Northern Alliance forces battling the Taliban for control of the country.
The United Nations says some ten thousand Afghans have fled the bombing and crossed into Pakistan during the past six days. A spokesman said that today alone 3,500 had crossed one border area by midday. One refugee is quoted as saying that they are leaving their homes in order to save their children.
Strains of anthrax bacteria found in New York, Washington and Florida are "indistinguishable." That's the world today from Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge. Also, two New Jersey postal workers have tested positive for anthrax, as well as an employee of the "New York Post" newspaper.
A suitcase packed with C-4 explosives plastic is found today at a greyhound bus station in Philadelphia. A bomb squad removed the device, plans to blow it up. A police spokesman said the suitcase contained enough explosives to take out the terminal. Those are the latest developments for you. And back to you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Donna. This week, new cases of anthrax and growing fears about the threat of bioterrorism. Joining me now to talk about that, Congressman Christopher Shays, Republican from Connecticut. He's held more hearings on this subject than anyone else on Capitol Hill. Congressman shays, thank you so much. Did the House leadership do the right thing by recessing a little bit earlier because of the anthrax scare on Capitol Hill?
REP. CHRISTOPHER SHAYS (R), CONNECTICUT: Probably not. And there were some members who disagreed with the decision. It was a decision that was based on what the medical people told the Speaker and the minority leader to do. And the one good thing you can say about it was it was bipartisan and it was done out of concern for the employees that work at the offices and interns that open the mail.
BLITZER: Why not, Congressman Shays, err on the side of caution when you're dealing with something as deadly as anthrax?
SHAYS: The Speaker made that determination based on that, and I respect him tremendously for making it. It's just that a lot of us have a question with how it looks and how you and the press have played it up. Frankly.
BLITZER: The point is, no one has been more concerned about bioterrorism on Capitol Hill than you have been. You fully appreciate the potential deadly bacteria this is.
SHAYS: It is deadly. What concerned us on Wednesday morning was that we were told it was in the ventilation system and that says it's an altered form of anthrax. In other words, whether we call it weaponized or not, somebody was playing around with it and they made it if more effective. It no longer stuck together. It floated. It didn't settle to the ground. That was the concern, and that was the basis for the decision. It's just some of us thought that maybe we could close each building as we inspected it and leave the other ones open.
BLITZER: You may have heard David Ensor, our national security correspondent's report earlier. He had some experts pointing out that even to put that anthrax, that powder, that finely milled powder into an envelope requires an enormous amount of skill in and of -- by itself.
SHAYS: I agree with him. And that's why when I hear people trying to decide whether it's weaponized, maybe it's not as advanced as they could make it. It still could be pretty deadly. This is one part of a story. You're going to see other biological potential attacks. You're going to see other -- you're going to see chemical attacks. This is one part of a story that's very real and very big.
BLITZER: What is the government, the Congress and the executive branch -- what do they have to do immediately, within days, to prepare for that nightmare scenario that you're talking about?
SHAYS: I think we also just have to prepare the public. We need to be honest with the public. It's not a question of if, it's a question of when, where, and of what magnitude. In most cases, the magnitude will be small. They want to gum up the works. They want to put sand in our gears. But I don't want us to be focused on this and then not recognize that you can have a bomb in a public place that can cause tremendous damage and then continue to cause fear.
Then having said that, we lose 40,000 people a year in automobile accidents. We have to get on with our lives. We just have to know that the world is different. The Cold War is over and the world is a far more dangerous place.
BLITZER: If you are taking a look at the immediate period ahead, anthrax obviously is right up there. What might be next after anthrax?
SHAYS: We have Tommy Thompson coming in to our hearing on Tuesday. We want to know what vaccines are being developed and how quickly can we get them on-line. There is no immunity from a terrorist attack but there are cures for illnesses when they hit us. We want to make sure that we can deal with the consequences of any attack, whatever kind of attack it is.
BLITZER: Congressman Christopher Shays. Always good to speak with you. Thank you very much.
SHAYS: Thank you.
BLITZER: Appreciate it. Next week, the Senate is expected to consider a measure to boost the nation's defenses against bioterrorism. And among the things that may be considered are high- tech means of combating the threat. Joining me now, a man whose company is promoting a way to render doses of anthrax harmless. He is Gene Ray, CEO of Titan Corporation. Mr. Ray, thank you very much. Tell us first of all what your equipment can do.
GENE RAY, CEO, TITAN CORPORATION: What the equipment can do -- what the equipment is doing now is killing bacteria. Bacteria like E.coli and listeria in food. All kinds of bacteria that is on medical equipment. All medical products, before they go to the doctor or the hospital for us, after they are packaged must be sterilized. Since 1993 -- over eight years -- we have been using this technology to do that. It will kill anthrax bacteria just the same as it kills the other bacteria.
BLITZER: Have you already tested it to make sure it can kill anthrax specifically?
RAY: Yes, we have. We have tested it with working for a government customer with a machine like ours, a government U.V. machine. We have tested it. And yes, it does.
BLITZER: We're showing our viewers some animation of how it would do it. What would basically be the principal? You would put this equipment in a post office, in a distribution center, and would it go through each letter and parcel?
RAY: Yes. Each letter would be. Let me explain real quickly what the technology is, because it's really quite simple. It uses regular commercial electricity. It takes the electrons in the electricity, accelerates them to high speeds. They come out as a beam of energy. You pass the envelopes and the mail underneath the beam. The beam penetrates completely through, killing whatever bacteria is in there.
BLITZER: What's the negative? What's the downside as far as the mail or the letters whatever's inside parcels? If someone is sending cookies out, for example, what happens to that?
RAY: The main thing that you can't send through is electronics. It will destroy computers. It will destroy any kind of electronics. So you cannot ship electronics and have it go through the machine. And also you would not want to send food and things like that. Otherwise, CDs are not damaged. Things like that are just fine.
BLITZER: Has anyone in the government expressed an interest in starting up some of this for postal services?
RAY: We are in discussions with a number of government entities concerning this.
BLITZER: How expensive would this be to go nationwide and protect the nation's mail with your equipment?
RAY: These are estimates of course. The best estimates are roughly a penny or so per piece of mail.
BLITZER: And it could be ready?
RAY: It's working today, on so far a small scale. You could start today. It would take a number of these around the country to do all the mail.
BLITZER: Gene Ray, thanks for joining us.
RAY: Thank you, sir.
BLITZER: President Bush today said all civilized nations must stand together to defeat terrorists wherever they may be. Mr. Bush discussed the war against terrorism with Chinese President Jiang Zemin on the eve of an economic summit in Shanghai. Mr. Bush thanked the Chinese leader for taking part in the international coalition fighting terrorism. He said the Chinese are sharing intelligence on terrorist activities and helping to cut off financing to their organizations. Mr. Bush stressed that ultimately there is only one way to protect countries against terrorism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I also will remind you that the purest way to make sure America is protected -- and other governments and countries are protected -- is to win the war. Find them, patiently hunt them down and bring them to justice. That's exactly what our great land is going to to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: For his part, the Chinese leader urged the U.S. military to take every possible step to avoid hitting Afghan civilians.
While the president is in China, the vice president is more visible here at home; visiting New York's ground zero yesterday and spending last night at one of the city's high-profile political events.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): New York's annual Al Smith Dinner is usually an opportunity to let some of the hot air out of politics. Rewind just one year ago.
AL GORE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This dinner represents a hallowed and important tradition, which I actually did invent.
BLITZER: The heat of the 2000 presidential campaign. Al Gore and George W. Bush poked fun at themselves and each other.
BUSH: My opponent keeps saying I give too much tax relief to the top one percent. But he hasn't heard my latest proposal. The bottom 99 percent will do well when they get to split Dick Cheney's stock options.
BLITZER: Fast forward to this year's Al Smith Dinner.
RICHARD CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's nice for a change to be at a disclosed location.
BLITZER: Vice President Dick Cheney applauded New York for going forth with the white tie event despite the black cloud left by the events of September 11th, noting that things will never be the same again.
CHENEY: These weeks have brought some changes into people's lives and a good deal of uncertainty for all of us. Americans reasonably wonder, how long will it last? The answer is that many of these changes we've made are permanent, at least in the lifetime of most of us.
BLITZER: Cheney provided an even more sobering reality check about the location of this battlefield.
CHENEY: And for the first time in our history, we will probably suffer more causalities here at home in America, than will our troops overseas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: What a difference a year makes. Joining me now Bill Schneider, our CNN senior political analyst. It's stark, the Al Smith Dinner last year, the Al Smith Dinner this year. What a difference it makes.
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: A difference in the country. Last year we were engaged in a political campaign. It was all about politics and a competition for who can be more clever. This year, in a sense, the vice president was there to bring the country, the political parties together.
BLITZER: With President Bush in Shanghai, China, Vice President Cheney is stepping up, becoming much more visible than he was during the first month since the September 11 attack.
SCHNEIDER: That's right. Neither he nor the president was in Washington last night. I think he's seen as the serious face of this administration. And he ended his remarks, I noted, with a very chilling statement. He said there will be no peaceful coexistence, no negotiations, no summits. The struggle can only end with their complete and permanent destruction. There's nothing funny about that.
BLITZER: There is a determination. They both seem to have changed dramatically, both George W. Bush and Dick Cheney, since September.
SCHNEIDER: That's right. I think his presidency has been reborn. It's found a new mission. He intends to devote the rest of his administration to that mission. And he says it will not be short and it won't be easy. That is what his presidency is now all about.
BLITZER: Is it fair to call both of them a wartime president and a wartime vice president?
SCHNEIDER: That's clearly the way they see themselves. The country is at war, a war on terrorism with no discernible outcome. A very long and difficult struggle. That's the way he's defining himself. And he says to his Cabinet at every opportunity, nothing is more important than this policy and this challenge.
BLITZER: Bill Schneider, our senior political analyst. Thank you very much.
War and wedlock. How September 11th changed love lives. Get in on your on-line chat questions for psychologist Judy Kuriansky at CNN.com/community.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. I'm happy to report weddings are on the rise and so are inquiries into dating services. The terrorist attacks on the U.S. are changing the way Americans prioritize their relationships. CNN's Donna Kelley is in Atlanta with a look.
KELLEY: How about that, Wolf. A change of heart. That's what many couples in America are saying about how they feel in the wake of the September 11 attacks. Love just seems to be in the air. Joining me from New York is psychologist and radio talk show host Judy Kuriansky, affectionately known as Dr. Judy. Hi, Dr. Judy.
DR. JUDY KURIANSKY, PSYCHOLOGIST AND RADIO SHOW HOST: Hi, Donna. Nice to talk with you.
KELLEY: Go ahead. I'm sorry.
KURIANSKY: Wolf was mentioning weddings and dating services and there will be births, I predict, in nine months. And there is a lot of bonding together. But there also is a lot strife, and as a psychologist that's what I've been hearing a lot.
I want people to be aware that if their relationships are in trouble now, they need to be alert that it's related to their tension.
KELLEY: Stress and tension, you bet. We want to go right to a live chat question. Let's take a peek. "Are people getting married because they don't want to go through the rough times alone?"
KURIANSKY: That's very true. They are panicking because they think, if this is the end of the world let's bond and have some love. There's also a trend towards people having more sex at this time, because they figure what could be more affirming of life. When it comes to mourning or even for someone dying, people think about living and feeling good about themselves. Marriages can happen.
Be aware, too, that what I see -- and I've been out at my site cameraplanet.com. We've been going out to the street, and I've been doing mini-sessions with people. What women have been doing is that they have been asking their men, "What would you do if I were in the World Trade Center towers? What would you do if I got an anthrax letter?" What the men need to know is that the women are asking in that situation, I want you to tell me you love me. And the men need to know that. Because men and women react differently to stress.
KELLEY: Let's go on to the next one, real quickly. We have a ton of questions and so do I for you.
KURIANSKY: OK.
KELLEY: On to the next one. "Is there a connection between the rise in marriages and people coming to terms with their own mortality?" KURIANSKY: This is very true. This is a good time, actually, for you to think, "who loves me?" That old little question that people used to say, who'd come to my funeral? It sounds a little morbid. But it is a time to reassess who loves you and then to reach out and tell them you that love them and ask them to tell you that they love you, too. That is a good way to use this in terms of your own mortality.
KELLEY: We'll go on to the next live chat. "When everything settle down and we return to our new sense of normalcy, will the divorce rate go up?" And you were just starting to touch on that. Marriage, divorce, babies -- what happened?
KURIANSKY: Yes, indeed. This is a time when people -- it's not even waiting till things settle down. Now is the time when things are escalating that people are starting to think about divorce. I have heard this. There are women who have said to me, I want to talk about, every day I want to call him on his cell phone and say, "This is what's happening in the news. I'm watching CNN and this happened and this happened." And he says, "I'm busy," or "we'll talk about it later."
Women need to talk about their feelings. I've had women say to me, I'm thinking I want to get a divorce. Look at this man. He's not even helping me through this. Because men want to do something to solve the problem and women want to talk. Now is the time. Not even just later, when you should pay attention. Don't think about divorce now. It's different styles of coping.
KELLEY: I imagine that you would tell folks to really try to think clearly. People are saying life is short, it's fragile, it's precious, and it's a wake-up call for a lot of folks. But I think you would encourage them to think this through a little bit. If you love somebody tell them, but make sure you're thinking clearly.
KURIANSKY: Absolutely. When it comes to stress and to the strife, then think it clearly. If it's coming to the good parts and you're thinking, oh, well, let's really make our love solid now. That's a good thing. That gives some people excuses, really, at times to say, "OK, you know what? I wasn't ready to make a commitment. But now I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow." That's OK. Because all it's done is helped you get over those fears that you've had internally about intimacy and commitment.
KELLEY: Really great to have you with us. Thank you, Dr. Judy. Dr. Judy Kuriansky, who is a psychologist. It's nice to have you join us and help us sort through a lot of these feelings that people are going through since September 11. Wolf?
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Donna. We just have a breaking news story that we can report. We have confirmed here at CNN that a letter sent to the "New York Times" Rio de Janeiro bureau has tested positive, at least has tested positive for spores consistent with anthrax. The letter was not opened. It was put in a plastic bag. It is being tested right now. We will have more on this story as the evening continues. That's all the time we have for now, but I'll be back with more coverage in one hour. I'll talk with the former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and a chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. CNN's coverage of America's new war continues next with "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE."
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