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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

The Anthrax Investigation Continues

Aired October 22, 2001 - 17:25   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting from Washington, where the deadly form of anthrax has now turned up, here in the nation's capital. Two postal workers are known to have it, and two more are believed to have died from it. Thousands more are now being tested and treated for it.

CNN's Rea Blakey reports on the deadly new turn in the anthrax scare in the nation's capital.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

IVAN WALKS, D.C. CHIEF HEALTH OFFICER: We have two postal workers who work in the Brentwood mail facility that have expired.

REA BLAKEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Stunning news, to the hundreds of Brentwood postal workers who lined up at D.C. General Hospital for precautionary treatment and testing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was really shocking. It's very shocking.

BLAKEY: Public health officials strongly suspect anthrax.

DR. DAVID SATCHER, SURGEON GENERAL: It does seem highly probably that those two deaths were related to inhalation anthrax, based on my discussion with colleagues at CDC.

BLAKEY: At least two other postal workers from the Brentwood facility are hospitalized -- troubling news for employees like Melvin Thweatt, who can't understand what he calls the delay in testing postal workers.

MELVIN THWEATT, POSTAL WORKER: They knew it came through the building. Before they go to the Capitol, they have to come to our building anyway. And they're better safe than sorry. They should have closed it there and then said all clear.

BLAKEY: He says workers concerns about the anthrax-laden letter that passed through Brentwood and went to Senator Tom Daschle's office were ignored by post office management.

THWEATT: No one said nothing. Keep working, keep working.

BLAKEY: Postal service spokesperson Debbie Willhite explains that the Centers for Disease Control had advised there was no immediate need for employee testing. All that changed when a postal worker reported flu-like symptoms and was hospitalized Friday.

DEBORAH WILLHITE, U.S. POSTAL SERVICE: The initial thought was that there would be no way that anthrax would not -- would present itself, out of a sealed envelope.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLAKEY: The U.S. postmaster general says now is not the time to start playing a blame game. We are told that in fact, the people who have frequented the Brentwood post office, those who were either employed there or members of the media, who were in the back portion of that post office, not the front portion, where the public is served, should in fact report to D.C. General Hospital to be tested and treated, prophylactically. They'll be given Cipro, a 10-day supply. And if, in fact, they test positive, Wolf, they will be called and further treatment will continue.

BLITZER: Rea, yesterday we were told 2,200 postal employees from that Brentwood facility, here in the District of Columbia, would be tested and treated, as well as another 200 employees at the postal facility near Baltimore-Washington International Airport. Are those numbers consistent, or are they going up right now?

BLAKEY: That 200 figure from Baltimore-Washington sounds a little high to me. We had been told there were about 100 people who should be tested.

As you heard from the news conference, the real focus at this point, is Brentwood office. And I might add, Wolf, that we've had members of the media come out and say there's a great deal of confusion as to whether or not they are allowed to be tested. Some of the public health officials here, somewhat confused about whether or not people who actually were inside the post office after the 11th of October should, in fact, be tested.

And members of the media, obviously, concerned about their possible exposure, want to be tested and want to be treated prophylactically. So there still seems to be some confusion as to specifically who is in the high-risk category and who is not. But public health officials are definitely trying to work it out.

BLITZER: And some confusion, Rea, as well, about customers who may have gone to that postal facility, isn't there?

BLAKEY: At this point, the postmaster general is indicating that people who are members of the public who have not crossed back into the employee area, people who may have been served in the front, do not need to be treated prophylactically.

There's a concern about having too many people on antibiotics perhaps unnecessarily. But, as you might imagine, Wolf, anybody who has a concern certainly has a valid and warranted one at this time.

BLITZER: Rea Blakey, here in Washington, D.C. Thank you very much. And you can get more on what the postal service is doing to make its workplace safe in my daily on-line column. That's at CNN.com/wolf.

A new poll just out shows fewer than 10 percent of Americans have considered or gotten anthrax antibiotics. Two-thirds of those surveyed by CNN-"USA Today"-Gallup say they are not worried about anthrax exposures. But Americans appear split about the nation's reaction to the anthrax threat. Forty-seven percent say people are overreacting, but 60 percent say the media are overreacting, to the anthrax threat.

Before we turn to our expert on bioterrorism, there's something we'd like to emphasize one more time. It is this: Throughout the last week, many here in Washington felt reassured that the anthrax exposures were all of the type that does not kill people. With the confirmation now of inhaled anthrax, that sense of reassurance is, of course, gone.

With that in mind, we turn to Javed Ali, our CNN bioterrorism analyst. Javed, how concerned should the public be out there, and specifically postal workers?

JAVED ALI, CNN BIOTERRORISM CONSULTANT: I don't think the general public should be that concerned because again, the method of delivery appears to be the mail. So with that the primary delivery method that you have to generate a large number of these organisms into the air -- we're still not sure how that is being done -- in order to contract the most lethal form of the disease.

BLITZER: I guess there is a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking going on, a lot of hindsight. People are saying -- postal workers at that Brentwood facility saying, "Why didn't they engage in the testing, the treatment last week when they did it at the Hart Senate Office Building early last week after that letter was discovered with anthrax sent to Senator Daschle." Why didn't they immediately go to that facility, since all mail to Capitol Hill comes from to facility?

ALI: Can't really answer that question. I'm not sure exactly what the decision-making process was for that. But the thing people have to understand is that somehow, for the people who are contracting the pulmonary form of this disease, whether it's the mechanical processes of sorting the mail or some kind of human intervention of people actually picking up these letters and shaking them or moving them around, the particles that are either inside those letters or on the outside of those letters are getting into the air and forming those infectious doses.

BLITZER: We heard the Postmaster General say they are now looking, speaking to vendors about getting equipment that would be able to kill the bacteria, the anthrax bacteria, the way bacteria is killed in food and other products. That seems like it could take a long time, though.

ALI: It probably will take a long time. There's no silver bullet solution for this problem right now, unfortunately.

BLITZER: There are almost 800,000 postal employees out there. Should they be wearing gloves as a matter of routine precaution? ALI: I'm not sure what the new guidelines will be for the postal service, but I'm sure they are going to look at every possible measure they can take to protect their employees.

BLITZER: Javed Ali, thank for joining us.

Find out more about anthrax through the ages and go in-depth about this anthrax investigation at CNN.com. AOL keyword: CNN. We are going to take a quick break. When we come back, the latest on the military front in this war on terrorism. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. The anthrax toll continues to grow here in Washington eve as the military strikes over Afghanistan escalate. We will have complete coverage coming up, but first let's go to Joie Chen in Atlanta for a quick check of the developments.

JOIE CHEN, ANCHOR: We want to bring our viewers up to date. The bioterror scare has deepened today in Washington. This afternoon officials said that two suspicious deaths of Washington-area postal workers were probably due to anthrax.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY DIRECTOR: We are still undergoing final tests to determine absolutely if these two deaths were related to anthrax exposure. The cause of death to date is unclear. But I will tell you what is very clear: it is very clear that their symptoms are suspicious and their deaths are likely due to anthrax.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHEN: Earlier, postal workers were taken to clinics for tests. Health officials in Washington say the second employee has the inhaled version of anthrax, which is potentially deadly. The first case was identified over the weekend. Concerns have also arisen about nine other people in the Washington area. We'll get the latest on this in just a moment.

Also in Washington, the Capitol was open today, but House and Senate office buildings still are being tested for anthrax and were therefore closed. Several sites on Capitol Hill have tested positive, including Congressional mailrooms and parts of the Hart Senate Office Building, where a letter containing anthrax was opened last week.

Fighter jets meantime drop bombs today on Taliban positions near Kabul. Targets were the Taliban front-lines facing rebels of the so- called Northern Alliance. Reporters in area say it appears to be effort to help rebels capture the Afghan capital.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld criticized unnamed people in the Pentagon today for tipping reporters to Friday's commando raid. Rumsfeld said the anonymous people put soldiers' lives at risk and violated federal criminal law. He said the tippers' identities are not known. In New York, more bodies were found today at the site of the fallen Trade Center towers. Recovery workers offered prayers for the dead and covered the bodies with American flags. A number of bodies recovered from the site yesterday, including those of several firefighters. We'll turn now to Wolf with more on the latest up in Washington.

BLITZER: Thank you very much, Joie. Now to the military in effort in Afghanistan. In the wake of Friday's commando raid, there are other signs that military plans are accelerating. Also today, clear sign of annoyance from Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld at some loose lips. CNN's Military Affairs Correspondent Jamie McIntyre is at the Pentagon with latest from there -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the anti-Taliban forces in the north are beginning to see some of the results they have been waiting for as U.S. fighter jets and bombers concentrate on Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters dug in on the frontlines. Some of emphasis of the campaign is now on what is called tank- plinking, and several of the cockpit videos released by the Pentagon today show a number of tanks in various locations around Afghanistan being hit by laser-guided weapons.

But still, the Pentagon admits, so far the outnumbered Northern Alliance has been unable to capture the strategic northern city of Mazar-e Sharif or advance on the Taliban-held capital of Kabul.

CNN has learned a few new details about Friday's commando raid. You recall the Pentagon showed pictures of the paratroopers dropping in on an airfield. That turns out to have been in a dry lake about 60 miles southwest of Kandahar.

Meanwhile, CNN has learned that other special forces used helicopters from the aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk to get to their location, a command center for Mohammed Omar.

That whole operation was suppose to be shrouded in the utmost secrecy, and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld expressed some consternation -- some anger, really -- at the fact that newspaper reports in the morning -- like this one, for instance -- signaled that the ground war was about to begin. He did however say that his anger was directed more at the leakers than at the press.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I think that the release by a person in the government that had access to classified information to the effect that the United States of America was planning and was about to engage in a special operation in Afghanistan, clearly was A, a violation of federal criminal law and second, it was a something that was totally in disregard for the lives of people involved in that operation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCINTYRE: Now the last other piece of the strategy that Rumsfeld said hasn't yet fallen in place in regard to Afghanistan is the efforts of the State Department to get together a coalition government. But the U.S. said it was still proceeding with its military aims. Wolf.

BLITZER: Jamie, the Taliban said today they shot down a U.S. helicopter, They also said the U.S. bombed a hospital in Afghanistan. What is the Pentagon saying about that?

MCINTYRE: Well, in regard to the helicopter, despite the fact that the Taliban showed pictures of what appear to be landing gear from an American CH-47 helicopter, the Pentagon couldn't explain that. But they said no way was any helicopter shot down over Afghanistan.

When it comes to the hospital, they are pretty sure that they had nothing to do with that, but they don't want to say no until they have gone back and checked everything. But there is no evidence at this point that they were responsible for any bombing of a hospital. They say they will have the definitive word on that tomorrow.

BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon, thank you very much. And the new state of attacks on Taliban troops near Kabul is a welcome sight to the Taliban's enemies. CNN's Chris Burns is with the troops of the Northern Alliance in Northern Afghanistan.

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A second day of U.S.-led airstrikes along the front line between here and Kabul. We watched U.S. war jets swoop low the Shomali plain and swoop low over that front line. They are dropping their bombs on Taliban positions. The Northern Alliance says that those positions included troop concentrations as well as artillery positions. Clouds of smoke rose at the same time that we heard anti-aircraft fire from the Taliban side. However, it doesn't appear that it touched any of the U.S. war jets.

At the same time, we also watched Commander Baba Jan on the Northern Alliance side smiling. He been complaining in recent days that these airstrikes had been avoiding his front-line. And now he says those airstrikes could be helping him eventually reach towards Kabul. As night fell, we heard more machine gun, mortar and artillery fire. We picked up some of that with night scope, and that continued through the evening.

Chris Burns, CNN, in Northern Afghanistan.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: After more than two weeks of punishing airstrikes, the Taliban are fighting back with words, accusing the U.S. of targeting innocent civilians, committing genocide, and they claim over 1,000 Afghan civilians have been killed since the airstrikes began. The Taliban also claim to have shot down a U.S. helicopter, and produced four wheels and some sheet metal as proof of their claim. The rest of the wreckage, they say, is in a land mine and not safe to get to.

Also tonight, the Pakistan President Musharraf has appeared on national television to assure his nation of the advantages of being part of the international coalition against terror. He also said that U.S. forces which are now based in Pakistan would not be permanently based here.

BLITZER: U.S. military action in Afghanistan still has overwhelming support. 88 percent of those surveyed in the newest CNN- "USA Today"-Gallup poll approve. When asked about the most important goal of military strikes, "destroying terrorist operations" tops "removing the Taliban" and "capturing or killing Osama bin laden."

You'll hear from Pakistan's President General Musharraf tonight on "LARRY KING LIVE." That's at 9:00 p.m. Eastern, 6:00 Pacific. When we come back, we will go live to the White House, hear what Governor Tom Ridge, the Homeland Security director had to say a little while ago. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. We are following a developing story. Two confirmed cases of anthrax inhalation involving postal workers, as well as two suspected deaths of postal workers here in Washington. CNN's White House Correspondent Kelly Wallace is at White House where there was just a long briefing over there.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, you know this is just the two-week mark for Tom Ridge in his new post as director of the Office of Homeland Security, and he is now the lead coordinator between federal, state and local officials dealing with this growing concern about anthrax. You heard Governor Ridge in that briefing talking about the deaths of those two postal workers, believing the likely cause would be anthrax when the final test came in.

But then Governor Ridge and some other federal officials taking some tough questions, because postal workers throughout the day been asking, number one, since the anthrax-contaminated letter that was sent to Senator Daschle's office would have originated at the Brentwood facility -- they want to know, number one, why wasn't that facility closed sooner and why weren't the postal workers tested sooner, since Capitol Hill staffers were tested as recently as last week?

The governor saying that federal officials were dealing with the science as they knew it. He also said they were working as quickly as they could.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RIDGE: Immediately they put everybody in the hospitals and everybody else on alert to see if anybody presented themselves with symptoms. So I think they moved back, followed the chain as quickly as they possibly can. Obviously we are going to do everything we can, every time we can to expedite that, but I think they moved quickly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Wolf, the Centers for Disease Control representative at that briefing saying it's also dangerous for too many people to be on antibiotics, particularly if you are not exposed to anthrax. And number two, that they had no evidence up until this point that any mail carriers could be at risk. Clearly some lessons learned.

The message, though, federal officials working as quickly as they could and that they followed the science and took the steps necessary. Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: Thank you very much. Kelly Wallace at the White House.

Aside from the human and emotional impact of anthrax, the physical and financial aspects will be with us for months, if not years. CNN's mark Potter is in Boca Raton, Florida, outside a tabloid publishing headquarters closed earlier this month when anthrax spores were discovered there. Mark?

MARK POTTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, we're actually at the City Hall in Boca Raton, where we just had a news conference. And we learned that the FBI has completed its evidence gathering at the American media building in Boca. The Environmental Protection Agency will now begin its cleanup, which could easily take a month.

The first step is to test the facility to see how widespread the anthrax contamination is. The FBI only tested about 10 percent of the building.

And after those tests are completed, in about a week, the actual cleanup begins. The procedure for that has not yet been determined, but it could involve something as simple as the use of diluted bleach. An EPA coordinator said a complete decontamination can be done without damaging the building.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRED STROUD, EPA PROJECT COORDINATOR: We think we can decontaminate where it's safe to go back in. The spores are easily killed by bleach. This is based on experiments that the military has done at USAMRIID and Fort Detrick. They are the ones that came up with the recommendation for the disinfectant solution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POTTER: The sound behind that interview a very heavy rain that we had here a little while ago. The federal government is paying for this cleanup with emergency money from the EPA Superfund, although this is not considered a Superfund cleanup site. About $500,000 has been set aside so far.

50 people are assigned to this cleanup, including some specialists from the National Guard and the Coast Guard. The procedure here is they will test the building, they will clean it, and then they will retest it to make sure all is clear.

The EPA says it will be able to make this building safe, but officials from AMI say they have no intention of going back in this building. They, Wolf, are looking for a new one. Back to you.

BLITZER: Thank you very much. Mark Potter in Florida. Do you feel the need for even more facts on the current war against terror? Joie Chen will be joining us with a guest who can plug you into information that most people don't know about. That story coming up. But first, these stories making today's news wire.

A Florida judge has rejected O.J. Simpson's bid for a mistrial in his current road rage trial. Simpson has been charged with felony auto burglary and misdemeanor battery in an incident last December.

In Switzerland, the government has announced a $2.6 billion package to keep the national airline from going out of business. The president of Swissair says he's happy with the plan, which includes money from banks, industry and the government.

It's been more than a year since we have seen this. A Concorde jet completing a transatlantic flight. This British Airways Concorde flew from London to New York today with company employees, and later headed back home. Passenger service suspended after last year's crash will resume next month.

An even longer trip is scheduled to end tomorrow. If all goes as planned, the unmanned Odyssey spacecraft will enter orbit around Mars. The 286 million-mile trip to Mars took six months.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. CNN's Congressional Correspondent Jonathan Karl is on Capitol Hill with some new information about when those House and Senate office buildings might be open again. Jon?

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, sorry. A little audio problem here. Wolf, the situation we have is that the leaders of the House and Senate are working now on a joint statement that will announce their plans as far as the Capitol.

I'm told by multiple sources, House and Senate, that what they are planning on doing is opening the entire Capitol building itself tomorrow, but as of now the decision has been made to keep the office buildings -- those House and Senate office buildings -- closed because they do not have definitive test results back. They are still awaiting more test results.

Now, that said, I also want to tell you that Dick Gephardt, the Democratic leader in the House, came out a few minutes ago from a meeting with the Speaker of the House and said that the House would be open. The House is part of the Capitol building. But Gephardt saying that they were still awaiting results on their office buildings. That is true. That is what we know.

They are working on the statement with public health officials that have led the way up here on Capitol Hill throughout this entire problem. Have just broken up from a meeting. They had a conference call that included all the various leaders in the House and the Senate, and they are working on that joint statement.

Again, that joint statement, we hear, will be that the Capitol building itself will be open. But right now they are still awaiting tests, and until they get those tests back they will not announce the opening of the office buildings. They expect those office buildings to be closed tomorrow.

That said, there are also arrangements being made, Wolf, in both the House and the Senate side, to get alternative locations that should be ready tomorrow for all the staff and all the committees that have office space in those House and Senate office buildings to meet somewhere else.

As you well know, Wolf, most of the work that gets done up here on the Capitol building, the committee hearings, the staff work all happen in those House and Senate office buildings. With those closed, the Capitol cannot get much done up here. They are working.

They say they should have arrangements for at least some of the staff that are placed, some of the committees that are placed in those office buildings to have alternative locations to work tomorrow. That's significant, because there are -- believe it or not -- 12 committee hearings scheduled tomorrow, Wolf, all in those buildings that we are now told will be closed tomorrow.

BLITZER: Jonathan Karl. An abundance of caution and concern on Capitol Hill. Thank you very much. The war against terrorism is the first major conflict of the Internet age. Joie Chen rejoins with us once again with a very plugged-in guest. Joie.

CHEN: A lot of us have turned into news junkies by what happened on September 11, and since that time. One confessed news junkie is Josh Quittner, managing editor of "On" magazine. You may also have seen his articles about technology in "TIME" magazine. His latest column for "TIME": what he has been doing with his time, mainly surfing the web for more information.

Josh, I want go through some of the sites that you have pointed out as being of particular interest to. One of them, "the view as seen by the Pentagon" is the DOD -- the Department of Defense's site. Isn't that really just a mouthpiece for the Pentagon?

JOHN QUITTNER, MANAGING EDITOR, "ON MAGAZINE:" It's a mouthpiece for the Pentagon, I suppose, but the big buzzword when people started to publish on-line was disintermediation, which is just a fancy way of saying get rid of the middleman. What's great about the Pentagon site is it's all the raw information from the Pentagon.

CHEN: From the horse's mouth.

QUITTNER: Exactly. If you wanted to see transcripts of press releases, you can quickly zip through there and get the good stuff without having to sit through the rest of it.

CHEN: Here is another quick one. STRATFOR.com. We have seen these folks a lot on CNN. They are guests with us frequently on CNN. But don't you have be a subscriber to get the good stuff off their site?

QUITTNER: You have to be a subscriber to get the really deep, intense stuff, but to cruise through the thing, there is plenty of great information that is free that's available to anybody that clicks by. There are terrific position papers on the Middle East and what's going on there.

CHEN: You spent a lot of time at this site. It is DEBKA.com. If we take a look at their full screen, here, their motto is: "We start where the media stops." That's right at the top of their page. A lot of this stuff is kind of -- how shall we say it -- on the edge, there.

QUITTNER: Right. A little bit dicey. I would take this particular site with a gigantic grain of salt. However, for real news junkies it's definitely a major stop along the information highway. There is all sorts of stuff there that is probably nothing more than rumor, but it's still very interesting to read nonetheless.

CHEN: One of the things I see on their site today: "Chinese combatants with Taliban reported killed in Afghanistan." I mean, I haven't heard that someone else so I can't say that it's absolutely not true.

QUITTNER: No, I know. But a lot of this stuff sometimes has the ring of truth and it's just interesting to scan it.

CHEN: How would you compare it to anything else we might more commonly see in the United States?

QUITTNER: To me DEBKA is like The Drudge Report was during the Clinton scandal. It's a place that everybody who is interested in this stuff sort goes by and reads, but takes with a giant grain of salt.

CHEN: Not me as a reporter but me as a normal person, as a viewer, am I missing something if I don't check sites like this?

QUITTNER: Everyone has to make their own decisions. Everyone has to find their own level of comfort with information. I can't get enough information. I find virtually everything I read endlessly fascinating and I would happy to do nothing but read about this staff all the time.

CHEN: Fortunately you get paid to do that, Josh.

QUITTNER: Exactly.

CHEN: Josh Quittner. He is managing editor of "On Magazine." You can see him write in "Time Magazine." If you want to see this particular column that Josh has written about sites that he has been looking at, Wolf, it is at time.com. That's our sister on the web, time.com. You will see it there.

You will find Josh Quittner's latest column on what he is doing with his time. It is certainly full of lot of additional information on that, Wolf. One that I particularly liked is globalsecurity.org. Folks who wants to take a look at some of the stuff we are looking at here on CNN.

BLITZER: Thank you, Joie. Tell Josh I read all of his stuff, whether in "Time" or on time.com. I will be back with one hour more coverage including an interview with Washington, D.C. Mayor Anthony Williams. For Joie Chen, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. CNN's coverage of America's new war continues next with "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE."

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