Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

America Targets Terrorism

Aired October 24, 2001 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: "America Targets Terrorism," the postal service, and an already jittery American public are rocked by a growing number of suspected anthrax cases.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This great land came under attack. And it's still under attack as we speak.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: We'll get home front updates from our medical and White House correspondents.

While U.S. warplanes pound Taliban front lines, there are growing reports of civilian casualties, and growing concerns about what the Taliban could have in mind for their own people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REAR ADM. JOHN STUFFLEBEEM, JOINT STAFF DEP. OPERATIONS DIR: They may intend to poison one or more types of food sources and blame it on the Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: If the Taliban and al Qaeda are the ones using anthrax against Americans, should the U.S. use nuclear weapons? we'll have a debate, and we'll go to northern Afghanistan, Pakistan and the Pentagon, as America targets terrorism.

Good evening to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting tonight from Washington. We'll get to our debate on whether the U.S. should use tactical nuclear weapons in Afghanistan in just a few moments, but first, the latest in the anthrax investigation which expand here in Washington D.C.

For the very latest let's turn our medical correspondent Rea Blakey. She is covering the story -- Rea.

REA BLAKEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Wolf. Once again the treatment parameter has been expanded today to include anyone that visited the Brentwood Mail Facility here and went to the dock area. That was not previously covered under the treatment parameter, but anybody who did visit the dock area is recommended, in fact, instructed to go to D.C. General Hospital to receive their dosage of Cipro treatment for possible anthrax inhalation.

Meanwhile the postmaster general, John Potter is recommending anyone who handles mail wash their hands afterwards and D.C.'s Mayor, Anthony Williams says there are no suspicious cases at this time even though he admits there are at least 20 cases that are regarded as low suspicion. Meanwhile some Brentwood postal employees and at least one union representative remain hospitalized.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MAYOR ANTHONY WILLIAMS (D), DISTRICT OF COLOMBIA: There are 11 cases of clinical illness warranting the further precautionary investigation.

BLAKEY (voice-over): Public health officials claim the growing numbers were actually a good sign, that area doctors were alert to possible early signs of disease. All total in Washington: two have died from inhalation anthrax. Two more remain hospitalized in serious condition with the disease. Another six part of those 11 cases being watched, are in area hospitals with symptoms and tests pending.

Health officials continue spreading their message why it took so long to realize anthrax in sealed letters could pose a risk to postal workers. TOMMY THOMPSON, HHS SECRETARY: I want to make sure I underscore this: It is evolving science. Remember, we have never had cases of anthrax attacks in the manner before. It is a new challenge that we are all facing as a country.

BLAKEY: But it did little to soothe the growing bitterness among postal workers who feel they were not protected properly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right now you are telling us the mail must go rain, sea, hell, or snow. They said nothing about anthrax.

BLAKEY: The postal service said while there is no guarantee the nation's mail is safe, the chance of anthrax contamination is so small it doesn't justify the shutting down service.

JOHN POTTER, POSTMASTER GENERAL: Life is filled with risk. You could die crossing a street, you can die driving a car. And that's not minimize what is going on here, because we did lose two of our own, but it is to suggest that, you know, you just don't the shut the postal service down. If you think about it, how would you ever start it up?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLAKEY: Meanwhile, this facility remains closed though some mail was delivered from this location today. It actually came routed through other postal facilities in the city and came to this facility. It only stayed outside, did not go inside the building and then went down toward the Capitol Hill/White House area -- Wolf. BLITZER: Rea Blakey, thank you very much. Words of warning for a group of postal workers in New Jersey. Health authorities say all employees at the Hamilton post office should see their doctors about getting antibiotics for possible anthrax exposure. That warning includes bulk mail handlers at the facility.

In Florida Ernesto Blanco is out of the hospital and back home. He is the American Media employee who was diagnosed with inhalation anthrax. His stepdaughter says he is doing great. Another of the company's workers died of inhalation anthrax.

Good news, so far, at the White House a day after the announcement that anthrax was found at an off-site mail facility. Meantime, the administration has moved to increase stocks of a crucial antibiotic. Let's go live to CNN senior White House correspondent John King for details -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the White House celebrating news that none of the workers at that remote site that handles the White House mail have apparently, at least so far, tested positive for exposure to anthrax and celebrating a deal tonight that will dramatically increase the government's supply of Cipro, that anthrax antibiotic.

All this on a day when the president said because of these anthrax letters in his view, the United States is still under attack, still suspicions but no hard evidence, pointing to Osama bin Laden or any international terrorist group.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have thousands of FBI agents scouring information, asking questions, following up leads. All aimed to raise the risk of someone who would harm our citizens.

KING (voice-over): The government currently has enough Cipro on hand to treat two million people for anthrax. The new deal with drug maker Bayer is aimed at buying enough to treat 10 million more. 100 million tablets for $95 million, meaning 95 cents a tablet, down from the $1.77 the government paid previously.

Two hundred more government workers were tested for anthrax exposure after trace amounts were found Tuesday at a remote site that screens all mail sent to the White House. None of the first 120 to get preliminary results tested positive.

And sources tell CNN a new round of tests inside the White House complex turned up no evidence of anthrax. Still, workers at the remote White House site and some other government mail rooms are getting Cipro as a precaution, all part of an evolving response the administration hopes will quiet criticism it was slow to understand the scope of the threat.

TOMMY THOMPSON, HHS SECRETARY: Remember, we have never had cases of anthrax attacks in the manner before. It is a new challenge that we're facing as a country and we need to do more.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: In the short term the postal service is giving workers gloves and masks and it is also rushing to buy those scanners that kill anthrax by irradiating the mail. Still, the postmaster general said earlier today, he could not guarantee the safety of the mail. The White House was a little bit nervous about that statement rushing to say later in the day that Americans should feel overwhelmingly safe. They should feel free to open their mail, just be a little cautious -- Wolf.

BLITZER: John, as you know there are many members of Congress who want to strengthen the homeland the security office. Governor Tom Ridge, the former governor of Pennsylvania is the new director. Any movement on that front?

KING: Some of those members of Congress called down here for meetings today with Governor Ridge and with the president and many emerged saying they would hold off at least for now. Many don't believe Governor Ridge has the authority, say, to referee a fight if there is one between the FBI and the CIA, to force a government department like the Health and Human Services Department to spend money on something other than it proposes.

They don't think he has the authority. They wanted legislation to give it to him. The president appealed today saying look, we are in a crisis right now. Let's do it my way for now, revisit this issue in a few months. The members who emerged from that meeting earlier today said they were willing to do that, put off that legislation for now and see how all this works in the weeks and months ahead.

BLITZER: John King, we will see how it all works out. Thank you very much.

For more on the role evolving science is playing in the fight against anthrax, see my daily column at CNN.com/wolf.

In Afghanistan, a fresh round of attacks today, as the U.S. pounded key targets around Kandahar and Kabul. CNN's Matthew Chance has more on these strikes from northern Afghanistan.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks Wolf. U.S.-led airstrike continuing for a fourth consecutive day on those Taliban front-line positions north of the Afghan capital Kabul. Earlier we were positioned in a very forward location looking across the Shomali plains across the front lines that divide the forces of the Taliban and those of the opposition Northern Alliance and witnessed a fresh round of U.S.-led attacks.

At least three U.S.-led coalition war planes streaked across the sky overhead delivering their payloads to what we assume to be Taliban front-line positions. Of course we can't get to those positions to check what was hit. But certainly that is line of control just the north of Kabul that is occupied and controlled by the Taliban militia now.

All along, the forces of the Northern Alliance have been expressing their frustration saying they wanted more of these strikes against Taliban front-line positions and as I say this, the fourth consecutive day. Still no sign of any Northern Alliance advance out of their defensive trenches to push deeper into Taliban controlled territory and to take the Afghan capital -- Wolf, back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Matthew Chance, thank you very much.

In the wake of the U.S. airstrikes, there are unverified reports of civilian casualties in Afghanistan. There are also reports of unrest in Pakistan. CNN's Sheila MacVicar is live in Islamabad with details -- Sheila.

SHEILA MACVICAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: : Wolf, earlier tonight CNN staff in Afghanistan, in the Afghan city of Kandahar reported that they were witnessing what they termed a "sustained bombing," 25, 30 minutes. They said they could see flames shooting up. The bombing was taking place northeast of the city of Kandahar and that led them to believe that perhaps it was a fuel dump there that was being targeted. That was earlier this evening.

Now, at a news conference here in Islamabad, the U.N.'s humanitarian staff earlier today talked about their concerns of the aftermath of a U.S. bombing raid just outside of the Afghan city of Herat. The U.N. says that they are hearing, and they said their information is not perfect, communications are very difficult, but they are hearing what appears to be an American cluster bomb landed in a civilian village about three kilometers outside that city.

The cluster bomb munitions have been scattered throughout town -- these bomblets -- and that has left U.N. staff very concerned. Dan Kelly of the U.N. mine action clearance group explained why these bomblets are so dangerous.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN KELLY, MANAGER, MINE ACTION PROGRAM: The villagers have a lot to be afraid of because these bomblets, if they did not explode, are very dangerous and can explode if the villagers so much as even touch them. (END VIDEO CLIP)

MACVICAR: The U.N. is trying to get these bomblets cleared up. They are urgently asking the Pentagon to provide them with information so mine action teams in Afghanistan can de-arm them -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Sheila MacVicar in Islamabad, thank you very much.

The Pentagon has gone on the offensive in the war of words with the Taliban. Let's go live to CNN military affairs correspondent Jamie McIntyre over at Pentagon -- Jamie. JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the Pentagon has kicked its propaganda war against the Taliban into high gear accusing them today of everything from putting western journalists in the line of fire to plotting to poison humanitarian relief supplies.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): Even as it continues to bomb military targets, such as these warehouses near Kabul, the Pentagon has opened a second offensive against the Taliban, on the PR front. Top Pentagon officials charge the Taliban are planning to poison American relief food and provide it to Afghan refugees.

STUFFLEBEEM: We are confident in the information that we have that they may intend to poison one or more types of food sources and blame it on the Americans. We are releasing this information preemptively so that they will know if the food comes from Americans, it will not be tainted.

MCINTYRE: The Pentagon offered no proof of the food-poisoning plot, nor could it provide evidence to back up another charge: That western journalists taken into Afghanistan by the Taliban October 12th to view war casualties, were organized into a nighttime convoy in Taliban vehicles.

A Pentagon briefing slide called that a possible deliberate attempt to expose journalists to airstrikes, thereby creating the potential for what one Pentagon official called a strategic incident. While saying the Taliban are not as crafty as the Iraqis or Serbs, the Pentagon claims they are getting better at what's called denial and deception, hiding military assets and creating diversions.

STUFFLEBEEM: The Taliban are moving into neighborhoods, staying in people's houses, putting their troops into university dormitories or using religious mosques to hide their vehicles.

MCINTYRE: To show the care the U.S. is taking not to strike religious or cultural sites, the Pentagon released two sets of pictures: One showing how a historic ancient fort was spared by pinpoint bombing of a Taliban barracks near Kabul, and a second set showing how a helicopter had been moved near a mosque to protect it. The helicopter was hit, the mosque was not.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

The Pentagon reiterated its promise not to reduce Afghan cities to rubble just to get the Taliban. Instead officials said the U.S. military would use clever ways to go after them. But that promise came with a warning: that urban combat is the most difficult and risky type of warfare.

But as Admiral Stufflebeem put it today, we don't have the luxury of not going after terrorists. We have to do this -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Jamie, what about Mullah Omar, who is the leader of the Taliban. I noticed at the Pentagon briefing today, they seem pretty surprised how he is holding on to power.

MCINTYRE: They did say they were surprised at the dogged way the Taliban was holding on to power in the face of this continuing assault by U.S. aircraft, but Pentagon officials also say they never thought victory here would be quick and easy. They think that the Taliban simply wants to hunker down and get to the point where the winter sets in and the Muslim holy month of Ramadan comes, but the Pentagon says neither one of those things will stop the U.S. from continuing its campaign if it has not achieved its goals -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre, thank you very much.

If the anthrax attacks are eventually linked to Osama bin Laden, does an unthinkable response become thinkable? Two members of Congress debate the use of Nuclear weapons against Osama bin Laden next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. The bioterrorism genie is out of the bottle. And there's now a call to break another taboo: If Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda group is found to be responsible, should the U.S. use tactical nuclear weapons in Afghanistan?

That suggestion comes from Indiana Congressman Steve Buyer, who joins me now along with Florida Congressman Robert Wexler, who holds a different view.

I should point out, Congressman Buyer, the picture we showed before the break was of a strategic nuclear bomb as existed in Hiroshima, Nagasaki. What you are talking about are tactical nuclear weapons, small ones, to do what?

REP. STEVE BUYER (R), INDIANA: First let's start with U.S. policy. For decades we have held that if any nation or subnational organization were to use a nuclear device, or chemical agent or a biological toxin against U.S. forces or the American people, then "all options are on the table for our commander in chief." That is code word for any mix of response between nuclear, chemical or biological.

So you prefaced it correctly. If in fact there is a link, then U.S. policy has been triggered for the first time and we have to define the parameters of how far we are willing to go when the president says victory through all means necessary, it's important for the nation to have a discussion and that is what I tried to do today.

BLITZER: So, you clearly would support it if necessary to go and find...

BUYER: Only for this. I don't think anyone would support what you showed on television to use a strategic nuclear that comes from a submarine platform, from the B-1 Bomber, or from a missile silo. I don't know of anybody.

A tactical precision limited nuclear device could be inserted into a cave, if necessary, to collapse the catacombs. If it can be done with a conventional munition then do it with that. But we need to define what parameter is necessary if in fact U.S. policy is triggered, Wolf.

BLITZER: Congressman Wexler, if that will save the lives of U.S. troops, to use that kind of tactical nuclear weapon, why not use it?

REP. ROBERT WEXLER (D), FLORIDA: First of all, the question of whether Osama bin Laden is guilty of the anthrax for me is irrelevant. He is already culpable enough to warrant the most severe punishment possible. He did the World Trade Center, he did our embassies, he did other horrible things.

The issue is what is the most successful type of weapon to achieve our objective. Secretary Powell came before the International Relations Committee today and outlined a very ambitious, aggressive military approach, one that included a new kind of bomb: A bunker busting bomb, which actually goes 100 feet into the earth or through concrete, a two and a half ton kind of weapon that goes into the kind of caves that my colleague is talking about.

And it goes in with a degree of accuracy -- by laser -- where we can actually go through concrete rooms and find the room we want to blow up without all the negative ramifications, potential ramifications, of a nuclear attack.

BLITZER: But what if that 5,000 pound bomb which was used at the end of the Gulf war as well, doesn't do the job?

WEXLER: Well, as my colleague said, everything should be on the table. The president should have every option available, but we have the option now, the bunker busting bombs to achieve the purpose.

BLITZER: Let's ask Congressman Buyer can that 5,000 pound bunker busting bomb do the job?

BUYER: We don't know. We don't have the intelligence at this point to say what, in fact, we are up against. What I am saying that even when Mr. Wexler agrees that all options are on the table, even General Wes Clark agrees that if, in fact, you have a hardened bunker that is so deep and catacombed and if in fact our intelligence shows us that it's a stockpiled of either chemical or biological toxins, don't send Special Forces in there. Collapse the catacombs, you can seal radiation and entomb them for 1,000 years.

But if that is not necessary, don't do it. But what is important here in the discussion Wolf, and I Mr. Wexler would agree, is if U.S. policy is triggered, we as a country need talk about it. You can't have the scenario whereby President Truman did it to save lives, but he surprised everyone. We didn't even know we had it.

WEXLER: The discussion is very appropriate, and we ought to analyze which weapon can be use to achieve our purpose our objective, which is to knock out the Taliban, knockout Osama bin Laden, and to date what seems to be the most appropriate, are these bunker bombs that will get into the caves.

But also part of the debate and I think that is great, is to analyze the negative ramifications of nuclear weapons.

BLITZER: Let's pick up that point: Wouldn't the Arab world, the Muslim world Japan, Europe, be outraged if the U.S. used even these smaller, tactical nuclear weapons?

BUYER: That is part of the proper placement of this discussion. Because you also have the issue escalation. You have the issue of, this is a pretty volatile place of the world. You have Pakistan and India, these infant nuclear powers. My point is if had held a policy as a nation for decades that transcends administrations and it's been triggered, how do we define the perimeters of our engagement in an unconventional war?

Are we only limited to fight it through conventional means? It's important to have that discussion.

BLITZER: Well, that deters -- a lot of people believe, Mr. Wexler, that during the Gulf War that Saddam Hussein was deterred from using poison gas, weapons of mass destruction, chemical, biological warfare which he supposedly had weaponized, because the then first Bush Administration made a specific point of saying, if you use that all bets are off including the nuclear bet.

WEXLER: That's right. And with respect to Iraq, that strategy seems to have worked and I applaud the strategy. We have a different kind of enemy now. We have the kind of enemy that is suicidal. The fact that we will threaten them with death won't make a bit of difference for them. They will applaud it, they will say, OK, you do it, annihilate all the human race.

But what is going to happen in India and Pakistan if we go nuclear? Musharraf holds on by a thread. What is going to happen to the environment and the health consequences?

BLITZER: Fair points.

BUYER: I know, but that is -- we are talking about something that is very limited. That is why I am pleased that sort of clarified what you showed here at the top of the discussion. I agree with Mr. Wexler. The enemy we face is not subject to the traditional calculus of deterrence. And you are correct, the letter President Bush sent to Saddam Hussein got his attention.

I was a soldier in the Gulf War. I knew what it was like to stand on the front lines, I took my anthrax shots. The voice of a soldier is this: If there is a bullet with your name on it, you accept it as you fate, but you fall upon your knees and pray to God that your enemy will not gas you or use a biological toxin that will give you a lingering death.

So I think of those special forces operations, those guys that are on the field that we are asking to fulfill our mission.

BLITZER: OK, we have to leave it there. Just for the record, the Bush Administration is not ruling out flatly the use of tactical nuclear weapons. They are sort of leaving it deliberately ambiguous. On that note, two congressmen, Congressman Buyer, Congressman Wexler, thanks for joining us.

BLITZER: And for our viewers in North America, "CROSSFIRE" comes your way at the bottom of the hour. Bill Press joins us now live with a preview -- Bill.

BILL PRESS CO-HOST, "CROSSFIRE": OK, Wolf. The threat is in the mail, not just in Washington, but all over the country. That's what the postmaster general told the American people this morning. Are we doing enough to protect postal workers who deliver the mail and all the rest of us who receive it? We'll find out by putting the mayor of Washington and the deputy postmaster general in the CROSSFIRE in just a couple of minutes -- Wolf.

BLITZER: We will be watching. Thank you very much, Bill.

When we return, the U.S. strikes a bargain to buy millions of doses of a drug that is most effective in the treatment for anthrax. That along with the day's other major developments in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Here's a look at some of the day's latest developments: The Appropriations Committee in the House of Representatives unanimously approved a $318 billion defense bill. It's money President Bush wanted for the military, and it does include an agreement to consider billions more for homeland defense.

As the nation's postal system deals with anthrax contamination in several locations, the postmaster general says there's no need to shut down mail delivery in the U.S.

The U.S. government has a deal with the drug maker Bayer for anthrax antibiotic Cipro at 95 cents a pill. That's down from $1.77 a pill. The agreement includes the government buying 100 million tablets for $95 million.

There is a severe weather development in the Midwest this evening. Meteorologist Jacqui Jeras joins us live from the CNN weather center -- Jacqui.

JACQUI JERAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, severe weather has been breaking outs across the corn belt since about 1:00 this afternoon. We have a very intense line of severe weather here crossing Indiana, into parts of Michigan heading into Ohio. It did spawn a tornado about 4:00 this afternoon in La Porte, Indiana which is just off to the west of South Bend.

There you can see some damage from a trailer park there. This is a very serious situation. I want to take you back to the maps here and show you all the warnings that are in effect right now. There you can see them all the way lined up with the squall line. And we do have tornado watches in effect from Michigan extending all the way down into Mississippi.

So we have been going through this for the last several hours. We have a number of hours to go before this over and done with. Very moist unstable air associated with the system, Very cold arctic air punching in behind it. There you can see the snow fall in North Dakota, Grand Fork record snow more than ten inches already -- Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: Thank you very much, Jacqui. That is all the time we have tonight. Please join me again tomorrow twice at both 5:00 and 7:00 p.m. Eastern, as America Targets terrorism.

Until then, thanks very much for watching. I am Wolf Blitzer in Washington. CROSSFIRE begins right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com