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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
The Anthrax Investigation: Anthrax Sent Through U.S. Mail Is From the Same Strain
Aired October 25, 2001 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Today on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: "America Strikes Back."
The anthrax sent through the U.S. mail is from the same strain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: It's made in the United States. It's made in Iraq, and made in Russia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: But there were some differences in the anthrax sent to Senator Daschle's office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY DIRECTOR: The spores are smaller. Therefore, they are more dangerous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Was that sample treated with additives to make it even more deadly?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: The American people face a serious, immediate and ongoing threat from terrorism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: The attorney general announces an anti-terror crackdown, as Congress wraps up powerful new legislation. We'll look at homeland security, and the sacrifices you may have to make.
Can the U.S. win the war against terror without getting its hands on Osama bin Laden? We'll look at the military picture, as "America Strikes Back".
Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting from Washington.
New word today just how dangerous that anthrax is that's terrorizing Capitol Hill. The country's homeland security chief says it's highly concentrated, and that raises the question: Who had the know-how to make it? We hope to help sort through the scenarios this hour.
But first, let's get a quick check of the latest developments from Joie Chen in Atlanta -- Joie.
JOIE CHEN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, good afternoon. The Bush administration confirmed today that the anthrax mailed to Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle had been refined to make it more dangerous. Tom Ridge, the new homeland security chief, said the anthrax spores were deliberately concentrated, pure and inhalable. Daschle announced today an entire wing of the Hart Senate office building is to be sealed off indefinitely.
The State Department announced today that one of its mail room employees is being treated for inhalation anthrax. The employee works in a postal processing center at Sterling, Virginia. The Sterling facility handles correspondence that passes through Washington's Brentwood mail center, birthplace of two people who died of inhalation anthrax.
In New York, a second employee of NBC now is being treated for the skin form of anthrax. The employee handled the letter addressed to NBC's Tom Brokaw, that caused first case of anthrax at the network.
By a near unanimous vote, the U.S. Senate has given final passage to expanded police powers in the war on terror. The head of the Senate judiciary committee says the law will strike an appropriate balance between security and civil liberties.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), VERMONT: We wanted something that would work. We didn't want a bill to simply say we passed a bill, because that accomplishes nothing for anybody. We wanted a bill that said we're going to be a safer nation, we're going to be a more secure nation, and we're going to be a nation protecting its liberties. We've done that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHEN: And on another front today, the Pentagon insisted its war in Afghanistan is going according to plan, as the air campaign continued. Some were suggesting the effort to break up terror networks in Afghanistan is bogging down. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld would not say that Osama bin Laden is any closer to being caught.
Those are the latest developments. We'll bring you any further developments as events warrant. Now let's go back to Wolf in Washington.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Joie.
And top officials of the Bush administration stated today that America is under an ongoing terror attack. Attorney General John Ashcroft said terrorists living within the United States are plotting, planning and waiting to kill American citizens.
And Homeland Security Chief Tom Ridge said anthrax is clearly being used as weapon. At least two new cases of anthrax are being reported today, including an inhalation case at the U.S. State Department. For that breaking story, we return to our State Department correspondent, CNN's Andrea Koppel.
Andrea, give us the details.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf an unidentified man, according to the State Department, has contracted anthrax. The man is a State Department contract employee, who doesn't work in the building where I am right now, which is the main State Department building, the Harry S. Truman building. But rather, works over at a mail handling facility in Sterling, Virginia.
This facility handles most of the mail that comes to the State Department. The man is one of 135 employees who work at that facility. And he apparently complained of flu-like symptoms yesterday, went into the hospital, where he remains today, believed to be suffering from inhalation anthrax -- as we have come to know in recent weeks, the more serious type of anthrax.
Other employees at that facility, as well as other State Department employees who work at mail handling facilities for this building, are all being tested for anthrax, and are all on Cipro, that antibiotic that deals with trying to treat anthrax.
What we do know about the Sterling, Virginia facility is that it handles a lot of the mail that comes from the Brentwood facility, which is where two mail room employees, have since died from anthrax. But having said that, the State Department here, at least in this building, is not testing State Department employees. It has stopped all mail facilities, though, both from the facility out in Sterling, Virginia, as well as five other facilities, Wolf, that handle State Department mail.
BLITZER: Andrea Koppel at the State Department, thank you very much,
And also today, we've learned an important distinction about one of the anthrax samples, the one that was mailed to the Senate majority leader, Tom Daschle. For that part of the story, we turn to our CNN national correspondent, Susan Candiotti -- Susan.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Wolf.
Today, officials are acknowledging for the first time what Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle and other government sources had been telling CNN: the anthrax contained in a letter to Senator Daschle is, indeed, more sophisticated and more powerful than other samples.
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RIDGE: It is highly concentrated. It is pure, and the spores are smaller. Therefore, they're more dangerous, because they can be more easily absorbed in a person's respiratory system.
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CANDIOTTI: Compare that, says Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge, to the anthrax contained in the letter to the "New York Post." Preliminary tests show the quality is different. Military researchers call it "coarser."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAJ. GEN. JOHN PARKER, MEDICAL RESEARCH COMMAND: It appeared that the "New York Post" sample was clumpy and rugged, and the Daschle sample was fine and floaty.
One of my scientists actually described the "New York Post" sample as looking like Purina dog chow. You know, clumpy, like a pellet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CANDIOTTI: The spores in that letter and in the "New York Post" sample are described as very light, and take the slightest amount of wind, or even clapping of hands to escape and spread in a room.
Last week, authorities described the strains examined in New York, Washington and Florida as common, garden variety -- all similar. Well, that's true, as far as the family of anthrax involved, called the Ames strain.
Back then, the government did not say the spores were any different, despite descriptions to the contrary by Senator Daschle and other government sources. They called the spores highly sophisticated, very pure. Quote -- "good stuff." Today Ridge said he was unaware of the source of the law enforcement briefing Daschle received.
Researchers do not have enough samples from the Florida sample and letter to NBC's Tom Brokaw to make a valid comparison to the Washington spores. Military researcher Major General Parker insists he cannot yet say whether chemicals were added to the spores to make them even lighter in air and more easily dispersible.
More tests are needed to determine that, Wolf, and those tests are ongoing.
BLITZER: Is there any early suspicion -- the letter that got to the Sterling facility that services the State Department, there's now an individual in grave condition, we're told -- "guarded" condition, excuse me.
Is there any suspicion that letter that could have come from presumably the Brentwood facility? Or, it could have come from another source, another letter altogether. At this point, nobody knows for sure, do they? CANDIOTTI: They don't. They don't know how many letters that are infected with anthrax, as it were, out there. Certainly, the facility used by the State Department does receive mail in part from Brentwood and from other facilities as well. So, everything is up in air right now.
BLITZER: So at this point, we don't know if it's one letter, could be several letters.
CANDIOTTI: Could be more than one.
BLITZER: Which makes the unknown very concerning. Thank you very much, Susan.
And we heard that word again, "Iraq." The news today about the anthrax mailed to Senator Daschle means that it came from one of a small number of countries, one of which, of course, could be Iraq. But as CNN's David Ensor reports, today's news is hardly a smoking gun in the hand of Saddam Hussein.
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DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Iraq, 1995. Journalists are shown a facility U.N. officials charge with producing biological and chemical weapons. The plant only makes harmless products, like chicken vaccines, insists Iraqi biologist, Rehab Taha (ph).
REHAB TAHA, IRAQI BIOLOGIST: This is mainly for civilian products.
ENSOR: But the U.N. subsequently proves otherwise, finding and destroying buildings and weapons filled with anthrax and other deadly agents.
Given the relative sophistication of the anthrax found in letters to Senator Tom Daschle and others, some, like former U.N. Arms Inspector Richard Spertzel, suspect Iraq could have helped the terrorists, who sent them.
RICHARD SPERTZEL, BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS EXPERT: There is no question in my mind that the Iraqis have the intellectual capability, the necessary equipment, as well as the people qualified, knowledgeable enough to do it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need worry substantially, I think, about potential Iraqi involvement in biological attacks against us, working with terrorist groups.
ENSOR: Those suspecting Iraqi involvement point to an April meeting in Prague between Mohamed Atta, one of the aircraft hijackers of September 11th, and an Iraqi intelligence officer. But former CIA senior official John Gannon says the meeting proves nothing, and that it is hard to imagine Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein taking the risk of helping a bioterror attack on the U.S. JOHN GANNON, INTELLIBRIDGE: I have, in a of times in the past, seen him do things which I thought were stupid. But I have to say, in this particular case, to have him be involved with the anthrax scare in the United States, that that is not much of an operation, to put him at risk of a very serious and significant reaction from United States.
ENSOR: Furthermore, if Osama bin Laden's group is behind the anthrax attacks, it may not have needed any help from Iraq. In 1999, one of a hundred-plus members of an affiliated terrorist group, Egyptian Islamic Jihad, who were on trial in Egypt, admitted the group had bought anthrax from an Asian company for $3,695, plus shipping.
(on camera): Though some in the Bush administration are suspicious of Iraqi involvement, knowledgeable U.S. officials say, so far at least, they have no evidence linking Iraq or any other nation to the anthrax attacks.
David Ensor, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And joining us now to talk more about this: a man whose job was to head off attacks by terrorists. Don Hamilton worked in the counterterrorism office with the U.S. State Department. He joins us now from Oklahoma City.
Mr. Hamilton, thank you for joining us. Let's pick up where David Ensor left off: Iraq or not Iraq?
DON HAMILTON, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL: No way to tell. It does -- Iraq certainly has the capacity. They certainly have malice towards the United States. It's fair to describe them as an unfriendly enemy state. The United States is almost at war, flying daily air missions over Iraq. So there is ample reason to be suspicious of Iraq.
But the evidence doesn't seem to be there. One of the things that I think we want to think about in this anthrax business is: is the postal service chosen as a means to maximize terror, or is it chosen because there is no other delivery system available to the people who are doing this? It has to be an open question. It could indicate the weakness of the absence of any other truly weaponized delivery system.
Also, when we heard earlier that it was highly potent, it was made smaller, et cetera, I notice that there was a step back from using the term "weaponized," which biological weapons specialists use to talk about anthrax manufactured exclusively and specifically for weapons use.
BLITZER: The fact, though, that this additive was put in, was mixed in to this anthrax, that would make it easier for it to go up in the air and to become much more dangerous -- there aren't a whole lot of sources, a whole lot of people who know how to do that specific step. HAMILTON: I think that I'm -- I couldn't say myself. I believe that knowledge is limited to a fairly small group of people, but, as you said earlier, there is no smoking gun in Iraq's hand. This is scary business, but it's not catastrophic right now.
BLITZER: You once worked at the State Department. Today an employee of the State Department, believed to have come down with anthrax, who worked at a nearby postal facility in Sterling, Virginia, that services the State Department.
If this is a different source than the letter that was sent through the Brentwood facility to Senator Daschle, that opens up a whole new chapter in this anthrax investigation, doesn't it?
HAMILTON: Well, of course it does. I mean, at this point you appear to have, it appears, from what I can tell in the news, that you have two sources of the anthrax contamination. And I don't know whether I'd consider it a new chapter or not. I mean, was this in the form of a letter addressed to Colin Powell? Was this some small degree of anthrax that got on to a letter directed to the State Department from other mail?
There are still too many unknown factors to solve this equation closely. But it would not be a shock to me, that the same people who would send letters to Tom Brokaw and Tom Daschle and Dan Rather, et cetera, would also send one to Colin Powell, or to some other prominent figure in the State Department.
BLITZER: Don Hamilton, thank you once again for joining us. We always appreciate your expertise.
HAMILTON: Thank you.
BLITZER: Thank you.
And behind the scenes, White House officials are expressing frustration that while anthrax cases continue to spread, the government still does not know the culprits. For more on that part of the story, we turn to our senior White House correspondent, John King.
John, the White House had a parade of briefers over there today. What did we learn?
KING: Well, the parade of briefers, Wolf, part of an effort by the administration to show a more united, coordinated front in the message it gives to the American people -- some criticism of the handling of the anthrax cases.
One thing we learned, the most glaring thing we learned, was that they still have no idea about the source of this. Governor Ridge saying today the investigation continues, as you've been discussing these past few minutes. The testing continues. The anthrax sent to Senator Daschle, the most potent. They believe this is all from the same strain.
I want to follow up quickly on the point you were just making with your guest. I spoke to an investigator a short time ago, very involved in these discussions. He said the operating assumption right now is, because there is only one known source of anthrax in Washington, the letter to Senator Daschle, that all the cases in the Washington area have come from contamination from that letter.
That is just an assumption at this point, but that mail at the State Department, much like the mail that comes through the White House, is taken to those remote facilities, where it is irradiated, so that when it gets to the Department itself, it cannot be carrying anthrax or other bacteria. The assumption right now is, just as at the remote site that handles White House mail, somehow that letter became contaminated -- either dust coming out when it went through the mail sorters at the Brentwood facility.
Or remember, they use blowers to clean those machines, one of the points made at the briefing here today. If a blower was used and put that anthrax dust in air, it could spread around quite easily. That is the operating assumption right now. But at the briefings today, they say the testing continuing. They don't have a suspect and they don't have a source.
BLITZER: John King, thank you very much.
Meanwhile, a journalist is being treated at a D.C. area hospital for symptoms similar to anthrax inhalation. She had been in the Hart Senate office building the day an anthrax-tainted letter was opened in Senator Tom Daschle's office. The entire southeast wing of the building has now been sealed off after Wednesday's discovery of trace amounts of anthrax near a freight elevator.
Let's take a look at that Hart building. That's right over here. This is the Hart building, where the majority leader's office was. The Russell building, which is over here, has reopened.
Also, meanwhile on Capitol Hill, on the other side of Capitol Hill, the Longworth building on the House side -- that's this building right over here. This is the Longworth building, as well as the Cannon building, which is this one over here. Both of those building are now opened. They are deemed anthrax free. The Rayburn building, which is this one, still remains closed.
We were told, meanwhile, they'd make flying safer. And have they kept their promise? Air safety at issue, at the half-hour.
Next, the battle over Afghanistan. As U.S. jets dodge enemy fire, we look at the strategy for taking Kabul and hear from the Pentagon about tracking Osama bin Laden.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
U.S. warplanes widened their air strikes against the Taliban today north of Kabul. Meanwhile, fierce ground battles were reported between Taliban forces and their rivals in the Northern Alliance. CNN's Chris Burns is in northern Afghanistan, and filed this report for us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thank you, Wolf.
A fifth day of U.S.-led air strikes against Taliban positions, along the front line between here and Kabul. Not only along Bagram airport, but along two other positions along that front line -- along the road to Kabul, as well as along a mountainside, where the Taliban are dug in and have been firing rockets and mortars against some towns and villages along that way.
We saw black smoke rising from a number of positions where the air strikes have hit. We also saw anti-aircraft fire from the Taliban positions, fired up against the U.S. war jets. None of them hit.
We also saw what we thought was a surface-to-air missile that missed against one of the planes. We also saw the Northern Alliance sending at least two tanks down along the road toward Kabul, an area where the air strikes have hit overnight.
It appears that the Northern Alliance is trying to take advantage of those air strikes by repositioning some of its troops, perhaps to expand some of its attacks against the Taliban. However, the Northern Alliance says its going to hold back on any wide scale offensive against the Taliban until they see more air strikes along that way.
Also, fighting and air strikes around Samangan and Balkh Province, as the Northern Alliance tries to advance against Taliban positions, against the Taliban-held town of Mazar-e-Sharif, strategic northern town. However, the Northern Alliance says there will have to be more air strikes before they can advance in that area.
Humanitarian aid, and more airdrops U.S. packets of humanitarian aid. Thousands more of those packets, bringing to the number 885,000 of those packets since the October 7th air strikes began.
Back to you, Wolf.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Chris Burns in northern Afghanistan.
And as the U.S. targets Taliban positions north of Kabul, the rival Northern Alliance continues to wait for the right moment to advance on the Afghan capital. With us now, CNN military analyst Don Shepperd, a former retired major general in the U.S. Air Force.
Thank you, General Shepperd. The political constraints, though, to go in on Kabul, the Northern Alliance -- the U.S. has a political problem, not only a military problem, doesn't it?
RETIRED MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD, U.S. AIR FORCE: And remember, Wolf, military and diplomacy are the means. The political settlement is what you're trying to force, and both of them are only instruments of that. The difficulty right now is, do you allow the Northern Alliance to run in and take over the Kabul, the capital? What kind of message does that send to the other groups? This is the most difficult political military problem right now that we're working with.
BLITZER: Let's go to our telestrator to show some of the problems that the U.S. military has. Of course, this is Kabul over here, the capital. That's where the Taliban is in control.
But there's a key base, an air base at Bagram, which is just north of Kabul. That's been going back and forth between the Northern Alliance, which is up here, and the Taliban forces to the south, hasn't it?
SHEPPERD: That's right. The distance between Kabul and Bagram air base is about 30 miles. The actual front line, if you will, between the two is about halfway between Bagram and Kabul. And it's gone back and forth. It's a World War I battlefield of trenches, mine fields. It's most difficult. So if you want to march from Bagram and take over Kabul, you've got some tough territory to go through.
BLITZER: And if we go to the map one more time another key battle that's unfolding is right over here at Mazar-e-Sharif, which the Northern Alliance forces around here, they're trying to get in there, but the Taliban is holding out pretty well. In fact, they seem to be making some successes in the past few days.
SHEPPERD: Right. Think about this. The Taliban force is around 50,000. The Northern Alliance forces are around 15,000. Fifteen- thousand is about the size of a U.S. division. The distance between Bagram and Kabul, being 30 miles, that could easily swallow up one whole division, or all of the Northern Alliance forces.
So if you talk about the Northern Alliance being split between Kabul and Mazar-e-Sharif, which is a key Taliban resupply area up to Uzbekistan, they are really stretched thin. This is a difficult military problem for the Northern Alliance.
BLITZER: And I think it's fair, if we go back to the map one more time. This whole area, whoever controls this area around Mazar- e-Sharif -- the supply routes coming in from the Central Asian republics, including Uzbekistan, could have a significant impact.
SHEPPERD: They could, Wolf, but there's one other thing to remember. You see the tanks being moved down in the previous report by the Northern Alliance. Those tanks are going to be added to, as we resupply these forces in various ways from the coalition and the U.S. military. At the same time, the Taliban, their money is being taken away, their resupply routes are being taken away and their tanks are being taken away. It's going to be very difficult for them to replace the ammunition that they are firing, and the tanks they are losing.
BLITZER: Yesterday, we heard the Pentagon say -- express some surprise and say how dogged the Taliban fighters have been, and how much the resistance there has been -- let's go back to the map -- around Kabul over here. Can the Taliban -- if they were given the green -- excuse me -- the Northern Alliance -- if they were given the green light from the U.S. to go in, despite -- over objections, perhaps, from Pakistan, could they take the Afghan capitol?
SHEPPERD: I don't know if they can do it at this point or not. But the key issue here is time. We have to have patience. Time is on our side. When I say "our side" I mean the U.S. forces and the coalition forces with the U.S. So it's not a matter of if the Taliban is going to fall, it is when they are going to fall. As we bring pressure to bear from coalition, U.S. forces over time, the Taliban is going to fall. Maybe two days, two weeks, two months, maybe two years. But they are going to fall.
BLITZER: General Shepperd, thanks for your insight.
And when will the United States capture or eliminate Osama Bin Laden? That question has been an issue the past day or so with the top U.S. military leadership. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld literally made headlines in an interview in "USA Today."
Here it is right here. Rumsfeld: "Bin Laden might get away." CNN military affairs correspondent Jamie McIntyre joins us at the Pentagon now. Some clarification today from the secretary. He wasn't happy with that headline in "USA Today," was he?
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, he said he didn't think the headline writer was in the room when the meeting took place between him and the editorial board. He did say it was an issue, but one of semantics. And that was simply that he could not say to an absolute certainty that the United States would be able to capture Bin Laden. But would the U.S. continue to pursue him? Yes. Did they think they were going to get him? Absolutely. Did they have any intelligence that they could act on? No, he said. And he refused to say how or whether the United States is closing in on Bin Laden.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Now, have we made progress? And I said -- and I at great risk will say again -- that until you have him, you do not have him. So what is "progress?" Until he is no longer functioning as a terrorist, you -- he is functioning as a terrorist. There isn't any progress. There either is -- you either have him or you don't.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: Meanwhile, after 19 days of bombing now, the U.S. claims it is making some progress. It's falling into a rhythm, sending about a hundred warplanes a day into the skies. They are concentrating more and more on Taliban positions, fielded forces, such as a video released by the Pentagon today, which showed a vehicle being hit by a precision-guided bomb. That -- according to the secondary explosion we saw from that, that seemed to indicate that there was -- that it was loaded with munitions.
Also, there is some indication that the Northern Alliance will be getting some help or is getting some help on the ground. U.S. officials confirming that Russia has sent nearly 40 T-55 tanks and almost a hundred other armored vehicles to aid the Northern Alliance. And also indications tonight the U.S. will be getting some help on the ground. Great Britain about to commit its commando forces to go in side by side with U.S. commandos. And the announcement is expected on that in London tomorrow -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Let me ask you a question, Jamie, that I keep getting bombarded this question from our viewers who e-mail me. They want to know, does the Pentagon only release the videotapes of successful attacks? Do they ever release videotapes or pictures of failures?
MCINTYRE: Well, they pretty much release the successful ones, although they have on occasion released some of the misses. Sometimes they claim that the misses don't show up on the videotape because the targeting system is on the intended target and when a bomb goes astray it goes outside the field of view. But they do carefully pick these videos to show the hits. These weapons, though, are fairly accurate. So probably about 90 percent of these are hits. But they don't release very many of the misses and they have various explanations for why they don't do that.
BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre. Thank you very much. And looking at some of the other stories. On the international front, the Taliban is rejecting U.S. allegations that the Afghan regime might poison food being brought into Afghanistan for humanitarian relief and blame the poisoning on America. Earlier today the Taliban rejected the U.S. claims as, quote, "cynical propaganda."
In Islamabad today , Pakistani President Musharraf met with the Saudi Foreign Minister Saud Al-Faisal. They discussed the situation in Afghanistan as well as economic and political cooperation. As Al- Faisal said that, quote, "Solidarity with Pakistan is the duty of every Muslim, especially at this hour."
And refugees from Afghanistan continue to mass at the border with Pakistan. The U.N. refugee agency says some 15, 000 refugees have crossed the officially closed border over the past seven days. Thousands more are on the Afghanistan side of the border, waiting to get across.
The government has been vowing to beef up airport security in the wake of the September 11th attacks. But has it kept its promise? Our report, and an interview with a security expert when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. We'll get to our discussion on aviation security in a moment. Just want to also clarify of the three House office buildings, which are open, which are closed. Take a look right now. Canon Rayburn are reopened, have reopened. The Longworth House Office Building will remain closed at least through the weekend. Just want to clarify that over on the House of Representatives side. Let's get a quick check of the latest developments once again. Joie Chen in Atlanta. Joie? JOIE CHEN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, again, the State Department announced today that one of its mail room employees is being treated for inhalation anthrax. That employee works in a postal processing center in Sterling, Virginia. The Sterling facility handles correspondence that passes through Washington's Brentwood mail center, which is the workplace, of course, of two of the people who died of inhalation anthrax.
The Bush administration confirmed today that the anthrax mailed to Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle had been refined to make it more dangerous. Tom Ridge, the new homeland security chief, said the anthrax spores were deliberately concentrated, pure and inhalable. Daschle announced today an entire wing of the Hart Senate Office Building is to be sealed off indefinitely.
In New York, a second employee of NBC now is being treated for the skin form of anthrax. That employee handled the letter addressed to NBC's Tom Brokaw that caused the first case of anthrax at that network.
By a near-unanimous vote, the U.S. Senate has given final passage to expanded police powers in the war on terror. The head of the Senate Judiciary Committee says the law will strike an appropriate balance between security and civil liberties.
The Pentagon insisted today its war in Afghanistan is going according to plan. As the air campaign continued, some were suggesting the effort to break up terror networks in Afghanistan is bogging down. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld would not say that Osama Bin Laden is any closer to being caught. Those are the latest developments. We'll continue to watch and report on any others. Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Joie. Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta says he expects the House and the Senate to reach a compromise on a critical aviation security bill. Mineta met with House Republicans today. They are opposed to a Senate call to make airport baggage screeners government employees. But Mineta says the lack of a security bill is imperiling public safety. House and Senate leaders, meanwhile, are blaming each other for the delay in the aviation security bill.
The aviation security debate comes in the wake of the September 11th attacks and some other recent troubling incidents. Officials at Oakland International Airport say more than 1,000 badges, which grant access to secure areas at the airport, appear to be missing. And earlier this week, a man on board a Southwest Airlines flight turned in a gun he says he accidentally carried on board. Joining us now for some perspective on the issue of aviation security is Israel's Issy Boim, the former Israeli government security official, now president of Air Security International, Inc. Mr. Boim, thanks for joining us. Have there been any significant improvements since September 11, or is all of what we are seeing simply window dressing?
ISSY BOIM, PRESIDENT, AIR SECURITY INTERNATIONAL, INC.: Good afternoon to everybody. If you are asking me my opinion, I believe that we have today 100 percent better security what we did have in September 10th. And it should be...
BLITZER: Why...
BOIM: You inquire it is funny to you, but it is real.
BLITZER: Either it was really, really horrible on September 10, or there has been a dramatic improvement. What's going on?
BOIM: The concept has been changed, the life has been changed. Everything is different today. Everybody understands that it is not a joke anymore, it is a real issue. And accordingly, everybody has done as much as they could in order to improve the security measures.
BLITZER: The key issue now before Congress is whether the screeners -- the workers who work at security checkpoints at airport -- should they be working for the federal government or they -- should they be private workers, which of course is the case right now? A lot of people want to see the federal government take charge of those screening services.
BOIM: You see, for matter of just to discuss this issue, we can go up and down but we will not get any solution for this regard. To me, everything has to be changed, including the idea that we are talking about manpower companies and not security. We need to make it security providers, services, regardless if they would be working for private entity or for the government.
BLITZER: A lot of people look to Israel for some examples of tightened security, good security at airports, on airplanes. What is at Ben Gurion airport? Are they government employees who screen baggage, who screen the passengers, or private?
BOIM: They are actually working for the aviation department of the airport. And they are contracted to a private company.
BLITZER: So would you recommend a similar situation at airports here in the United States.
BOIM: Something similar that can be done and can be achieved.
BLITZER: Right now, the FAA oversees all airports. There is federal supervision to that extent. Would you -- you would like to see more federal supervision, although private workers at those airports, is that right?
BOIM: Exactly. We are looking -- or I'm looking to have an institute not exactly like the FAA is today. An institute that would be in charge, responsible by the government, to actually to provide and to dictate what would be the security measures in the future.
BLITZER: You say there has been a 100 percent improvement in aviation security, safety since September 11. What else in your opinion needs to be done immediately?
BOIM: First, to stop the argument and to come to the conclusion and there is no black and white here. We have to go and to actually approach the gray. The gray area as it would be that everything would be dictated by government and the airlines -- the airlines themselves should be responsible for the implementation. It is -- obviously the airline doesn't have a security department that can implement such security procedures. However, they will need to have to hire a security provider, actually to present the security and to implement security measures, supervised and dictated by the government.
BLITZER: Mr. Boim, thank you very much for joining us. We appreciate it.
BOIM: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you. And a landmark anti-terrorism bill is expected to be signed into law tomorrow. But with the stronger law comes concerns over possible threats to civil liberties. CNN Legal Analyst Roger Cossack joins us for a look at what all this may mean right after the break.
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BLITZER: Welcome back. The Senate gave its approval today to a landmark bill that would expand the power of law enforcement to crack down on terrorists. President Bush is expected to sign the measure into law tomorrow. The bill expands the government's wiretapping and surveillance capabilities. It also allows non-Americans suspected of being terrorists to be held for up to seven days before they are charged with a crime or have deportation proceedings begun against them.
Some lawmakers fear the bill could pose a threat to American civil liberties.
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LEAHY: We have been hurt terribly as a nation. We do have to improve our security, and we will do that. If we give up our liberties in improving our security, the terrorists win. This is a nation that has become strong and great, and is a democracy with constitutional checks and balances.
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BLITZER: Joining us now for some legal insight, CNN Legal Analyst Roger Cossack. What's the biggest concern that the civil libertarians are really concerned about?
ROGER COSSACK, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Wolf, the big problem with this is -- at least from the civil libertarian viewpoint -- is the broad definition of what terrorism is or isn't. And the question is, are people who are exercising their rights under the First Amendment, will they fall under the penumbra of what terrorism is? And so there is this issue of -- particularly among civil libertarians -- that people who are not terrorists, who are doing nothing more than perhaps disagreeing with the government -- something, you know, we cherish in this country -- will end up or could end up being investigated as terrorists. BLITZER: One of the more controversial features is that information -- evidence given to a grand jury -- technically supposed to stay there -- could now be shared with other agencies of the U.S. government?
COSSACK: You know historically -- and we have heard so much about grand juries in the last several years -- historically, information before a grand jury was always secret.
Why? Because the information wasn't -- because the defendant hadn't been indicted yet and so we kept it secret. It was part of our history from England.
Now, there is a need to share information that may go before the grand jury. And now that kind of information will be shared between intelligence agencies. This is a very difficult thing and a major change in American legal jurisprudence.
BLITZER: And wiretapping -- the authority to wiretap, to eavesdrop has been expanded broadly.
COSSACK: Yeah. The notion of in the past that we have always remembered seeing in the Mafia movies, they would wiretap the pay phone on the corner. Well, no more.
They will now wiretap the individual as to whatever phone that person may be using. Also, the idea now. the FBI has these programs that can get into e-mail. They will be able to tap a person's private e-mails. Now, of course, that will all be undone under the aegis and -- of a judge, but nevertheless, these kinds of powers that the FBI has never quite had before and never been able to do before will now be at them, they will now have them. But of course judges will supervise them.
BLITZER: But Attorney General Ashcroft told me when I interviewed him a few weeks ago -- he said what he basically wants is for law enforcement authorities to be able to deal with potential suspected terrorists the way they deal with organized crime suspects.
COSSACK: And that is pretty much what they have, except they now have abilities and powers that they never really had against organized crimes. I think it's one thing to say, though, that we should never forget is that in this final bill there is a sunset provision. And what that means is that in four years these laws will expire unless, they are reviewed by Congress again and decided that there is a need for them to go on. So I think that is a reflection that these are stringent laws, expanded laws for difficult times.
BLITZER: Roger Cossack, thanks for joining us.
COSSACK: Thank you.
BLITZER: And the anti-terrorism bill will be the topic on "THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN" tonight. That's at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, 5:00 p.m. Pacific. Ever since the first cases of mailed anthrax letters surfaced in the United States, the question has been asked: is it possible that anthrax spores got out of an envelope even though the envelope was sealed? CNN Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta looked at the issue and came up with this test.
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DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: In order to demonstrate how a powdery substance may have gotten out of an envelope, we took some standard talcum powder and standard envelope and sealed it in a standard fashion.
Look. With just a little bit of pressure here on the envelope, you can see quite bit of the powder actually getting through. That is just with some gentle tapping. Typically an envelope like this would actually find its say in a post office, eventually through a mail sorter.
And what's really remarkable here that this powder is getting not just through the sides of the envelope, but actually through the paper of the envelope itself. Why is that?
The porous size of most paper is typically about a hundred microns. That means the actual pores are a hundred microns in size. That is a strand of a thickness of hair. The powder is about 30 to 40 microns in size; less than half.
And the bacterial anthrax spores that we have been hearing so much about that cause inhalational anthrax are typically one to five microns in size. You can't see them. They are too small to be seen by the naked eye. Is this how the powdery substance may have gotten out of an envelope and contaminated a postal office? We don't know. But it is a possibility. Doctor Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Atlanta.
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BLITZER: That's pretty scary stuff. Meanwhile, the U.S. air campaign is dropping more than just bombs on Afghanistan. In fact, some Afghans have been pleasantly surprised by what has fallen out of the sky. That after these stories from our news wire.
Even North Dakotans are not used to this much snow this early in the season. The 11-inch snowfall in Grand Forks yesterday set an October record for that town. Hundreds of motorists were stranded and two traffic fatalities in the state were storm related.
That same storm system brought hail and strong winds to parts of the Midwest and South. In Indiana, a woman was killed when a tornado hit her home. And in Tennessee, a child was killed when high winds toppled a tree onto an apartment.
In northern Russia, forensic experts have started removing the remains of the crew from the wreckage of the Kursk submarine. The submarine exploded and sank in the Barents Sea more than a year ago, killing all 118 aboard. This month it was raised from the ocean floor and towed to port.
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BLITZER: Welcome back. The United States is not just dropping bombs on Afghanistan. Food supplies are also raining down from U.S. planes, often to the surprise and amazement of Afghans on the ground.
CNN's Satinder Bindra is in northeastern Afghanistan, in Northern Alliance territory
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SATINDER BINDRA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The residents of Khoja Bahawaddin say strange things are happening in their town. Last night, terrified people ran out of their mud huts when they heard loud thumps on their roofs.
"We all woke up at 2:00 in the morning," says Sharaf Ullah, "and thought we were being bombed. But when we looked around we found packets of food."
Five packets of food landed in Sharaf Ullah's backyard.
"My wife rushed out," Sharaf Ullah says, "and suddenly this package dropped a meter away from her. She got so frightened she's ill now."
But luckily for Sharaf Ullah, who's not sure if he can ever find work in this war- and drought-ravaged nation, his nine children have food tonight. They're eating raisins, peanut butter and crackers, a rare and sumptuous treat in one of the world's poorest countries. Sharing this rare bounty from the skies are hundreds of other residents. Some people here say dozens of food packages rained down on their homes.
Suddenly, there's so much American food in some parts of this town it's being openly sold at these makeshift shops. Each package costs about 40 cents, for those who can afford it. None of these people can. They're all refugees who fled Taliban-controlled areas months ago. Now, they watch in agony as their neighbors feast and they starve.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't understand why the U.S. drops food from the skies in the middle of the night. It should be distributed properly.
BINDRA: This latest U.S. food drop comes just one day after anti-Taliban leaders expressed concerns at the rising number of civilian casualties in the ongoing American bombing campaign. But for all their leadership's concerns, residents here just want to thank the American people for their generosity.
In northeastern Afghanistan, where thousands routinely go hungry, no one appears concerned about recent U.S. allegations the Taliban might try to poison U.S. food aid. The Taliban have dismissed the U.S. charges as "propaganda." Unaware of this controversy, Sharaf Ullah and his family have already finished all the rice and cooked lentils in their packages, and say they can never forget the day when it rained food.
Satinder Bindra, CNN, Khoja Bahawaddin, northeastern Afghanistan.
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BLITZER: Raisins, peanut butter and crackers. Sounds pretty good. I'll be back in one hour with more coverage, including an interview with former Senate Armed Services Committee chairman, Sam Nunn.
I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. CNN's coverage of America's new war continues with "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE," which begins right now.
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