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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

America Targets Terrorism

Aired October 25, 2001 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: (AUDIO GAP) same family but the poison in one letter shows some different and more deadly characteristics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJ. GEN. JOHN PARKER, MED. RESEARCH & MATERIAL COMMAND: When you look at it, it's like a very, very fine powder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The experts say it takes an expert to produce that kind of anthrax. And I'll discuss the next nightmare scenario with former Senate Armed Services chairman, Sam Nunn.

Does the U.S. need to get Osama bin Laden, to win this war?

We'll go to Pentagon, northern Afghanistan, and Pakistan, as America Targets Terrorism.

Good evening. Welcome to our viewers in the U.S. and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting tonight from Washington.

There's been no let-up in the anthrax crisis. A new case has been confirmed in a mail handler at an off-site State Department facility. Officials also strongly suspect an additional infection in New York and one in New Jersey. And tonight, new traces of the deadly powder are found in a Senate office building here in Washington.

Government leaders were out in full force today addressing the situation. Let's go live to CNN senior White House correspondent John King.

JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: One of the leaders out prominently, Governor Tom Ridge, the former Pennsylvania governor, now the president's point man on homeland security. A speech here in Washington and then a briefing here at the White House. All this part of an administrative effort to better coordinate its response to the domestic terrorism, especially the anthrax scare.

At that briefing though, no answer to the most important question of all: Who is responsible? Governor Ridge saying the government still doesn't know. And more discussion of just what the government knows about all this anthrax from a public health standpoint. Some of it a bit reassuring, much of it quite disturbing. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM RIDGE, DIRECTOR, HOMELAND SECURITY: We don't know who's responsible.

KING (voice-over): The anthrax found in Florida, New York and Washington is from the same strain.

PARKER: The good mews is that this strain is susceptible to all of the antibiotics that we have in the United States.

KING: But the anthrax in the letter sent to Senate majority leader Tom Daschle was especially potent.

RIDGE: It is pure, and the spores are smaller. Therefore they are more dangerous because they can be more easily absorbed into a person's respiratory system.

KING: The Daschle letter is the only known source of anthrax in Washington, and for now the suspected cause of anthrax exposure at four locations: The Brentwood mail processing center, where two workers died, The Capitol complex, the remote facility that processes White House mail, and a remote State Department mailroom where a worker was diagnosed with anthrax Thursday.

Authorities assume the contents of the Daschle letter were spread when it was squeezed in mail sorting machines, and perhaps when those machines were cleaned with high powered blowers,

PARKER: These individual spores are very light, and if given some energy from, say, wind or clapping or motion of air in a room, they will drift in the air and then fall to the ground.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: Now senior administration official telling CNN tonight that tests so far have quote, "not narrowed the field," as the administration tries to seek the source of this anthrax. One key question, of course, did it come from somewhere in the United States or perhaps from overseas, from Iraq, from former Soviet stockpiles. More tests are being conducted but the administration says, perhaps those tests might never be definitive -- Wolf.

BLITZER: John, the attorney general also had some tough words today for terrorists. What was his message?

KING: He had very tough words, Wolf, including that terrorists were continues to plot here in the United States. John Ashcroft saying, quote, they live in our communities, planning, plotting, waiting to kill Americans again. Very tough talk from John Ashcroft on the eve of the president signing that new anti-terrorism bill.

That bill includes broad new powers for law enforcement officials, eavesdropping, taking people into custody. John Ashcroft serving notice today, he intends to immediately act on those new provisions. Many in the administration believe those tough words laying the groundwork for the expected criticism that this bill might impinge on some people's civil liberties. Here at the White House tonight, a senior official told me we understand the message he is trying to send. The language may have been a tad too tough -- Wolf.

BLITZER: John King. Thank you very much.

For more on the possible origins of the anthrax, and to find out what the experts are saying, here's CNN national security correspondent David Ensor.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Richard Spertzel helped make anthrax as a weapon for the U.S. more than 30 years ago. In the 1990s, he helped the U.N. destroy the biological weapons found in Iraq.

Ever since anthrax in the letter to Senator Daschle reached the noses of at least 28 people, he's been predicting chemicals or other alterations designed to make the anthrax particles float in the air would be found.

RICHARD SPERTZEL, BIOWEAPONS EXPERT: To do that you have to have particles that are not going to be, tend to adhere to each other, tend to have electrostatic property that will make them cling to surfaces, and they also have to be water repellent.

ENSOR: Now that there's apparently evidence the anthrax has been altered to float better, Spertzel says that means it was either produced in a nation's laboratory or by someone trained in one.

SPERTZEL: My number-one choice would be that there's some kind of active cooperation going on between Iraq and Osama bin Laden.

ENSOR: Spertzel says you can rule out anthrax from the U.S., whose weaponized stockpile was destroyed years ago, but you can't rule out anthrax from the former Soviet Union, stolen and sold to terrorists.

There are also, he says, long-term biological weapons programs capable of this sophistication in Iran, Syria, Libya, China, and North Korea. The additional tests under way could prove crucial.

SPERTZEL: Without saying specifically what it is, if that foreign material turned out to be one of about three different substances then I would be inclined to say look very, very closely at Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR: Spertzel hopes he is wrong about Iraq, and he warns there will likely be no smoking gun evidence in the laboratory analysis of the chemicals in the anthrax. Though, Wolf, the field of suspects could be narrow.

BLITZER: OK, David Ensor, thank you for the good reporting.

And while the scope of the bombings in Afghanistan widens, the number of casualties is growing. As CNN's Chris Burns reports from Northern Afghanistan, the Taliban are starting again to strike back.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: U.S.-led air strikes have widened their targets between here and Kabul. Along the mountainside here at least five bombs were dropped, on suspected Taliban positions.

(voice-over): The fifth day of raids on the front line here also struck near Bagram Airport and along the road to Kabul. Black smoke rose from the foothills of the Safi Mountains, where the Taliban are dug in.

The Taliban fired antiaircraft guns and at least one surface to air missile, but it failed to hit the war jets. Two Northern Alliance tanks headed toward the front, down the road to Kabul. Alliance forces exchanged mortar, artillery and machine gun fire with the Taliban, apparently trying to take advantage of the air strikes. But alliance commanders still complain the raids are far from enough, and are waiting for more to be able to advance on Kabul.

As the bombings and the fighting drag on, the suffering mounts. An Italian hospital cares for some of the wounded from a Taliban rocket attack this week on a town near the front line north of Kabul.

Two and a half year-old Adriss (ph) lies in a coma after shrapnel pierced his brain. His father calls for the defeat of the Taliban.

This man was also injured in the attack.

"They keep throwing rockets from the mountains," he says, "and it's the poor people who try to make a living that suffer."

Civilian casualties are also mounting from U.S. strikes against the Taliban. The Northern Alliance, which calls itself the United Front, says it fears mounting resentment against the U.S. could provoke a backlash against its own cause.

Chris Burns, CNN, Northern Afghanistan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And officials at the Pentagon say they are pleased with the progress of the airstrikes against Taliban targets. CNN's military affairs correspondent Jamie McIntyre is live at the Pentagon with more -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, at today's Pentagon briefing, Wolf, there were lots of questions for Defense Secretary Rumsfeld and Joint Chiefs Chairman General Meyers about whether or not they were frustrated about the pace of the war in Afghanistan.

But Pentagon officials continue to urge patience saying that three weeks is too soon to expect results.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): In Northern Afghanistan a Taliban shoulder-fired missile streaks harmlessly by as a pair of U.S. Navy F-18's flying safely above the range of portable missiles, drops their bombs on Taliban front lines.

After 19 days, the U.S. has fallen into a rhythm, sending about 100 war planes a day to pound Taliban targets, concentrating on fielded forces such as this truck, which based on the secondary explosions was loaded with munitions.

A satellite photo shows 7 or 8 Taliban tanks destroyed.

But so far the antiTaliban Northern Alliance has not capitalized on the U.S. aerial assault to move its outnumbered troops against the strategic cities of Kabul and Mazar-e-Sharif, still held by Taliban forces.

Pentagon officials say they believe the American public is not demanding instant results.

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Some people think that everyone has a concentration span of 30 seconds. I don't think so.

GEN. RICHARD MYERS, CHMN. JOINT CHIEFS: This is proceeding according to our plan and we are at this point. So we're -- we don't feel this is piecemeal. We feel this is very deliberate, very well planned, and success is yet to be determined. But we think we're having some success.

MCINTYRE: And more help for the rebels is on the way. U.S. officials confirm that Russia is now providing the Northern Alliance with up to 40 T-55 tanks and about 100 other armored vehicles.

And, U.S. officials say, American Special Forces will soon be joined by British commandos in risky ground operations aimed at ferreting out Taliban and as Qaeda leaders.

But the Pentagon won't discuss those operations or say whether the U.S. is closing in on Osama bin Laden.

RUMSFELD: Until he is no longer functioning as a terrorist, he is functioning as a terrorist. There isn't any progress. You either have him or you don't.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: And Rumsfeld cited the September 11 attacks as even more reason for the United States to scrap the anti-ballistic missile treaty with the Russians. Rumsfeld said the missile program is now bumping up against the treaty restrictions and said some testing has been postponed until President Bush meets with Russian President Putin next month -- Wolf. BLITZER: Jamie, you say that British commandos are on the way. Do we know what specific role they are going to play?

MCINTYRE: We are expecting an announcement out of London tomorrow that Great Britain will commit some of its commando forces and presumable they will help the United States in these risky ground operations. So far Great Britain has not really provided much in the way of the military. They fired some cruise missiles, provided some reconnaissance over-flights but they haven't had a lot in the fight. This will get them in the fight in a very personal way and British commandos are considered to be among some of the best in the world.

BLITZER: Indeed they are. Jamie McIntyre, thank you very much.

He recently played a key role in a simulated biological attack. Now bioterrorism has arrived in the United States for real. I'll ask the former Senate Armed Services Committee chairman Sam Nunn about the next big threat.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. He was a U.S. senator for 24 years and served as chairman of the Armed Services Committee. He now chairs the Nuclear Threat Initiative, which seeks to reduce the threat posed by weapons of mass destruction.

Just four months ago, he played the part of the U.S. president in an exercise simulating a bioterror attack. Earlier, I spoke with the former senator, Sam Nunn.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

Senator Nunn, thanks for joining us. The dark winter exercise in June of this year underscored a lot of failures out there, a lot of inability to get the job done in terms of bioterrorism. What's the main lesson you learned that is applicable now?

SAM NUNN, FMR. SEN. ARMED SERVICES CHMN: We had probably the toughest scenario because it was a simulated smallpox attack in 3 states and the people sitting around the table at the National Security Counsel did not know the extent of the attack, we didn't know how far it spread. But it became very obvious very quickly that we did not have enough vaccine.

We did not have enough to take care of the three states, let alone the whole country. The only way you can really head off smallpox, which is highly contagious, unlike anthrax, which is not contagious, is to vaccinate people who may have been exposed and put a fire break around them. And the only other way, if you give out a vaccine, which we did after about two weeks, is to isolate people.

And that gets into how do you feed them, how do you clothe them, how do you get vaccine to emergency workers and doctors. So all of those things came into play and we learned that we were woefully unprepared. But I can say to people that we are much better prepared today than we were then, and we are making a lot of plans to correct a lot of those deficiencies. BLITZER: Some have said that the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center was small potatoes compared to the destruction on September 11. Others are saying that the anthrax attacks right now could be a similar analogy, small potatoes to a worse bioterrorist threat, like small pox, that may be out there.

NUNN: That's true. Or a different kind of anthrax attack. We could have a much worse attack than we have had so far. These are tragedies, and these people that have been affected, particularly the deaths, but also those who are exposed, those who are anxious about families, all of this is a tragedy and we should not in any way diminish this.

The silver lining here that we are going to be much better prepared. We've lost our sense of invulnerability since September 11, but we have also lost our sense of complacency. This is not just an attack on America, it is an attack on the world. It is an attack on our economic system and the economic system of the world and that is not only the September 11 event, but the threat of biological warfare.

I think everybody in the world that is responsible can identify with this. We have a lot of people out there in this country and a lot of people around the world willing the help. And now we have to constructively channel this energy into purposes that will make us all more secure and safe.

BLITZER: And you spend a lot of time worrying about the nuclear threat out there. What about nuclear terrorism, a nuclear device, small crude, in a suitcase. Is that something that is realistic out there?

NUNN: I've been concerned about that for years and years. It could happen. I don't think it is likely to happen, but if the odds against that are thousand to one, we want them 10,000 to one. And if they're 10,000 to 1 against it happening, we want it to be a million to one.

And the way we have to approach that is in cooperation with other nations because we have to secure the nuclear materials. The one thing about nuclear materials is they are a lot easier to contain and detect than biological or chemical, which are used every day in commercial ventures.

Somebody is walking around with a suitcase that is radio-active you know you have a problem and can recognize it if you have the right detection equipment. But we have to work with Russia on the nuclear one because that's where so much material is in terms of material that is not up to our security standards. And have been working with them under a program passed in 1991. But we have a long way to go. And at the rate we're going, we are not going to get there for another 20-25 years in the sense of having that weapons grade material under safe and secure conditions.

So we have got to greatly accelerate that program and I am hoping that in the meeting with President Bush, President Putin that is coming up in about a month, they are going to make that a top priority and say to the world, we're working together to secure all the nuclear materials.

And I would also say that I hope they announce that we are going to join together, Russia and the United States, in a biodefense effort. Because they know more about offensive weapons and probably know more about defensive mechanisms than we do because of the Soviet efforts. And right now we don't have much risk of telling them something they don't already know and we have a lot to gain in employing their scientists, giving them something to do and also getting the benefit of their knowledge on defensive steps that we can take.

BLITZER: We obviously don't know the answer to this question, but who do you suspect is behind the anthrax attacks here in the United States? Domestic homegrown terrorists or international terrorists?

NUNN: It could be either. It could be state supported. It could be biological scientist that have come out of a state that are now working with terrorist groups. It could be a home-grown crowd that have gotten sophisticated help. But we do know now, based on the reports I've heard today, that attack -- whoever perpetrated this has some pretty sophisticated biological and scientific knowledge because of the materials they have made.

BLITZER: A lot of people have pointed out in the last few days, there seems to have been, at least in the last week or two since the anthrax letters surfaced, confusing information coming from the federal government, conflicting information, slow reaction dealing with some of the postal workers.

Should people be overly concerned that the federal government is perhaps not on top of the situation?

NUNN: When you have a vacuum created by not having government spokesmen out there every day, you notice in a war we have people out there every day. We have our best and brightest presenting what's happened that day. They may not satisfy the media completely, but they're there. They are answering questions.

We don't have that on the health side and that was obvious in the Dark Winter exercise. Not having the ability to communicate accurate information not only to the American people, which is essential, but also to the doctors and nurses and emergency officials, the veterinarians who help guard our food supply, the people in drugstores who may be the first ones to know about these attacks.

We have got to have a communication system and we have got to have spokespeople and we have to plug in state, local and federal government in that communication system, particularly the public health sector and we have to then build this around the globe. Because we are in a global economy. And what happens in one part of the globe in terms of infectious disease or biological terrorism affects every other part of the globe.

BLITZER: Senator Nunn, thank you for joining us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

A new round of attacks are now underway in Afghanistan. We will have the latest on the continuing U.S. airstrikes with a live report when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome Back. The southern Afghan city of Kandahar is among the latest targets of U.S. airstrikes. CNN's Sheila MacVicar is monitoring developments from neighboring Pakistan. She joins us live from the capital, Islamabad -- Sheila.

SHEILA MACVICAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, news again tonight from inside Afghanistan of continuing U.S.-led attack. CNN staff in the Taliban stronghold of Kandahar reporting to us about 4 1/2 hours ago that they heard large explosions followed by brilliant flashes of light. They believe that the target was near or at the Kandahar Airport. That is about a 30 minutes drive southwest of the city and that of course is an airport that had been targeted before in this campaign.

This comes as the day has gone on of continuing and very punishing strikes against the Taliban front lines up where they are fighting against the Northern Alliance towards the north of country. We have reports again tonight of continued activity on the ground. Ground troops there apparently engaged Northern Alliance and Taliban fighters. But as yet, no indication that any ground has been won or lost by any side -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Sheila, it is already Friday where you are, the Muslim holy day. Normally there are a lot of demonstrations, anti-U.S. demonstrations. What do you anticipate later today your time?

MACVICAR: Your right, Wolf. This is the Muslim day of rest. The day when many people gather in mosques to pray. Now, what is new here in Pakistan, is that over the course of the last week we have had a coalition emerging of religious parties, anti-American, anti-this war parties joining together with a couple of the smaller secular parties.

They are threatening tomorrow the biggest demonstrations yet. They are saying that they will bring many thousands of people out on to the streets in cities across Pakistan. However, it has to be said that over the course of the last few weeks, the demonstrations that we have seen have grown smaller and Pakistani authorities on a number of occasions have been able to control those numbers. We will have to see what happens later on today -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And you can report about that for us tomorrow night. Thank you very much, Sheila MacVicar in Islamabad.

And for our viewers in North America, CROSSFIRE comes your way at the bottom of the hour. Bill Press joins us now live with a preview -- Bill.

BILL PRESS, CO-HOST, CROSSFIRE: OK, Wolf, having rounded up close to 1,000 suspects since September 11, the FBI is getting frustrated that some of them still won't talk. Does the war on terrorism justify more extreme measures, like the use of drugs or torture, or must even suspected terrorist be given their Constitutional rights? That is our hot debate coming up next, Wolf, in the CROSSFIRE.

BLITZER: And it sound hot, Bill. I will be watching. Thank you very much.

A major contribution to the war on terrorism. What one U.S. ally is offering when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here are some of the latest developments we are following this hour. On a 98-1 vote the Senate has a proved a bill that gives law enforcement broader powers to track, detain and punish suspected terrorists.

CNN has learned that Britain is planning to deploy ground troops to help with Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan. The British armed forces minister is expected make the announcement tomorrow.

And the State Department says a worker at its main mail facility has been diagnosed with inhaled anthrax. All State Department mail facilities and services have been shut down.

That's all the time we have tonight. Please join me tomorrow twice at both 5 and 7 p.m. Eastern as America Targets Terrorism. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "CROSSFIRE" begins right now.

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