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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Anthrax in America
Aired October 26, 2001 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Today on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: "America Strikes Back."
A widening crisis. Traces of anthrax are found at more government buildings, including a U.S. Supreme Court facility. As workers are tested at the vice president's residence, the president signs a bill giving law enforcement some powerful and controversial new tools.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This legislation is essential, not only to pursuing and punishing terrorists, but also preventing more atrocities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: We'll look at how germs spread, and how the government Centers for Disease Control tries to stop their spread.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On a decision by Mullah Omar, Abdul Haq was executed, along with two of his companions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: The Taliban say they've caught and filled an important opposition figure. Was he on a mission for the U.S.? And are anti- Taliban forces growing impatient with the U.S. bombing campaign? We'll go to northern Afghanistan, as America strikes back.
Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting from Washington. Within the past few minutes, we've learned that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta is to administer anthrax vaccine to certain high-risk workers. They could include certain laboratory workers, decontamination workers, as well as postal workers. This is a major development, the introduction of the anthrax vaccine by the CDC. CNN's medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, is in Atlanta with this breaking story -- Elizabeth.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDIAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, I just returned back from the CDC here in Atlanta. And Dr. David Fleming at the CDC told me that there are certain workers who he said could be under constant exposure to the anthrax bacteria, as long as this situation continues. For example, he said investigators are at risk of being under exposure to this bacteria -- for decontamination workers, laboratory workers.
And he basically said to me, "we can't put these people on antibiotics forever." That would not be a desirable thing to do. So instead, he said that they plan -- and he couldn't give a timeline, but it sounded like it would be happening soon -- to vaccinate these people, in lieu of keeping them on antibiotics forever.
He also said that there's a task force which is looking into whether certain postal workers should be receiving the vaccine, and other groups. And that's his word, and he wouldn't define who those other groups might be. But basically, what they were saying to me was, we are seeing now that there are certain groups who are at a very high risk for being in contact with this anthrax bacteria.
And it is simply not desirable to have someone on antibiotics all the time. It is not desirable for that person, it's also not desirable for the community, because it can lead to antibiotic resistance in the community. So instead, planning on administering the vaccine.
Now, the Pentagon owns all of the vaccine, and a spokesman for the Pentagon has told me that they have administered the vaccine to about half a million troops over the years, and plan on finishing up with everyone -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And there's only one firm, as you know, BioPort in Michigan, that manufactures this vaccine. Is there enough, since all of it, as you just pointed out, does belong to the Pentagon, goes to military personnel, who have to be vaccinated?
COHEN: Well, what the CDC has told me is that the Pentagon has agreed to give them enough vaccine for these high risk workers, like the lab workers, like the investigators. So they do have this -- the Pentagon has the stash of this vaccine. They wouldn't tell me exactly how big that stash is, but they said if we are asked by civilians, to lend out or to give out some of this vaccine, we will entertain that request.
Well, apparently that request was made, and they handed some of it over -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Elizabeth Cohen, breaking this story for us. Thank you very much.
Meanwhile, the anthrax story is getting bigger by the day. Sometimes, even as we just saw, by the hour. This hour, indeed, there are new security precautions at the highest court in the land. In fact, the nine justices may not be able to meet Monday at the Supreme Court building.
Let's get all the very latest developments from Joie Chen. She's standing by in Atlanta -- Joie. JOIE CHEN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, we are watching this very closely now. The anthrax scare in Washington spread today to include the Central Intelligence Agency, and the Supreme Court. This afternoon, the court confirmed that anthrax spores have been discovered in an off-site mail facility for it. Tests at the high court building have not revealed any anthrax there, but the court is being closed, workers are being tested, and justices, as you noted, may sit Monday at a circuit court in Washington.
Earlier today, the CIA closed its main mail facility at CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia, after trace amounts of anthrax were found there. An agency spokesman called the amount of anthrax "medically insignificant," but the building was closed for further testing and cleaning.
Concern, as well, about workers at the official residence of the Vice President Dick Cheney. What is described as a small group of staffers is being tested for anthrax, because some of the mail that arrives at the residence is filtered through the facility at the CIA.
Also, the U.S. Postal Service is launching anthrax tests of hundreds of mail facilities along the East Coast, and at every government mailroom. The government is buying irradiation equipment to sanitize mail in selected areas.
CNN sources have confirmed a claim by the Taliban to have executed an opposition military commander. One source says that Abdul Haq was on an American-backed mission to undermine the Taliban. The Taliban says he and two others were put to death for spying. The United States says it cannot confirm the reported execution.
The Pentagon today released new videotape portraying successful U.S. air strikes. The International Red Cross condemned attacks on Red Cross facilities in Kabul. The United States says the Taliban is using the Red Cross for cover.
Britain, today, announced that 600 British soldiers will be available for ground assaults into Afghanistan. They include 200 elite commandos, to be moved to ships in the Arabian Sea. Four- hundred are bases in Britain, and can be moved to the region on several days notice.
Also today, within the past half hour, in fact, the Pentagon announced that Lockheed Martin will build a new generation of fighter aircraft for the U.S. military. Lockheed beat our Boeing for the biggest defense contract in history. We'll continue to watch for all the latest developments, and bring those right to our viewers on CNN.
Now let's go back to Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you, Joie. Two weeks ago, anthrax contained in a letter arrived at the office of Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle. Three days later, the letter was opened, and so began an extraordinary state of daily reminders that the United States and its government institutions are under attack. One letter, now seven locations in and around Washington, where anthrax samples have been discovered. That first week -- and let's go to the telestrator to point it out -- that first week, here on Capitol Hill, the letter sent to Senator Daschle's office. Then the Brentwood mail facility right here, which services Capitol Hill, as well as the rest of Washington.
Later this week, anthrax at the Anacostia Naval Station right here, which handles mail for the White House. Yet later, in Sterling, Virginia, out here. That's the site of the State Department's off- campus mail facility, and mail-handlers for the Central Intelligence Agency, over here in Langley, Virginia, they also had traces of anthrax.
In addition, the Walter Reed Army Medical Center, right over here in the District of Columbia, and now, of course, the U.S. Supreme Court, right on Capitol Hill. Two people have died in Washington, several more have been infected, and hundreds are being tested.
Still, the source of the anthrax remains a mystery. For the latest, we turn to CNN national correspondent, Eileen O'Connor, who's been following all of this.
Eileen, first of all, do the authorities believe this is all limited to just one tainted envelope that arrived in the Washington, D.C. area, or more than one envelope?
EILEEN O'CONNOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They're not sure, and that really is the question, one envelope, or several? Although they do believe that it's looking a little bit more likely that it was this one envelope, to Senator Tom Daschle. Because, Wolf, they found trace amounts, downstream at these other postal facilities.
And again, all of these facilities that you've mentioned -- and in addition, now, we found another post office out there that had some anthrax spores, in Southeast Washington -- all of them do end up having received letters from that Brentwood facility.
And now the postal services is testing even further downstream and they're finding that it starts to clean up after that. So they do believe that perhaps it's looking a little more likely that these were transferred amounts.
BLITZER: Eileen, one letter must be a very, very sophisticated letter, if it can show up at all these different locations.
O'CONNOR: Well, what it means is that those spores were able to disperse very readily, and get onto other nearby mail, and then continue on down the chain. But we know that even with talcum powder, the size of this anthrax, one to two microns, is much smaller than the pores of an envelope, which are about a hundred microns. So it could pass through an envelope.
BLITZER: Eileen O'Connor, thank you very much. And we should remind you that the anthrax scare began in Boca Raton, Florida, where one man has died and another is recovering, now at home. The other place that's been affected, of course, is New York City, and the area where anthrax was mailed to several major media outlets. And now it's been discovered at the Morgan postal facility right in Manhattan.
With the latest on that story, CNN's Brian Palmer joins me live from New York. Brian, what's going on?
BRIAN PALMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Wolf. Well, we have learned that the president of a local postal workers union has filed a notice of intent to sue. They plan to file the actual lawsuit on Monday.
What they're trying to do is force the Environmental Protection Agency's hand to shut this building down. They're alleging that the working conditions at the Morgan General Mail Facility are unsafe, because anthrax was detected on sorting machines on the third floor.
Now, the U.S. Postal Service telling us they're not going to comment on the lawsuit or on the allegations. But they assure us that they're taking steps to ensure the safety of the workers. Workers have been issued masks and gloves. They've been offered precautionary courses of Cipro, many of the workers telling us they'd rather get tested, than get drugs, than take antibiotics for a condition that they do not have -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Brian Palmer in New York, thank you very much.
And as we reported, CNN has now learned that the Centers for Disease Control is to administer the anthrax vaccine to certain high risk workers. The CDC is heavily involved in the effort to safeguard Americans against anthrax. CNN's medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta is at the CDC headquarters in Atlanta, where he spoke today with the agency's director.
Sanjay, first of all, add some insight for us on this decision by the CDC, to go forward and begin vaccinating certain high risk workers.
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly the CDC has thought about this. has been part of their protocol, considering the vaccination as a post-exposure prophylaxis and certainly as a preexposure, as we're seeing now. The thought being that the vaccine certainly might prevent the bacteria from ever wreaking the havoc that we've been hearing so much about. And also possibly as a post- exposure prophylaxis against people who have been exposed, but actually haven't developed symptoms.
Wolf, I'm here at the CDC. I just wanted to point out something else as well. They're putting up some barricades around here. There are some police cars around the building, This is certainly a very highly secure building as well, and they're trying to make it even more secure.
The CDC has come under some sharp criticism recently, related to two deaths of postal workers in Washington. I did have a chance to talk to the director, Dr. Koplan, about that very topic. Here is what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. JEFFREY KOPLAN, DIRECTOR, CDC: I don't think hairpin mistakes. I think we've been quite clear all along. There is no testing for anthrax, and we've said that from day one. There is environmental monitoring, but there's no human testing for it.
And in terms of antibiotics, we recommend a 60-day course for those who have been exposed who need it. We recommend a shorter period of antibiotics for those who may have been exposed, until we can determine their level of exposure. And for those who haven't been exposed, they don't need antibiotics.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: It certainly is very confusing. They have testing, they recommend antibiotics for some people. As a doctor, I was sort of confused, and I asked Dr. Koplan about that to see his reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KOPLAN: It is confusing because I think people are associating nasal swabs with when they get throat swabs, for a sore throat. And this is a very different circumstance. There is no screening test for anthrax, so let's not confuse it with other diseases. And the way we use a nasal swab is as in parallel to the way we use surface swabs. So we use it to determine, has there been anthrax in proximity to where you work or in the environment?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: And so now we have about 20,000 people who are on full courses -- that is 60 days of ciprofloxacin. The other issue that we talked about was antibiotic resistance, which is something certainly the CDC is concerned about, and is trying to address -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Sanjay, do they feel, over at the CDC, they have a handle on this crisis right now, or are they learning as they go along?
GUPTA: Excellent question. Same question I posed to Dr. Koplan. What he told me was that it has been a learning process every single day, with every single new case. He said a good doctor would change therapies, depending on new information they gathered. That's the same thing the CDC has had to do.
Certainly in Florida, we saw 14 days of antibiotics. Take more if option. In New York, sometimes people got three days, in Washington, 10 days. Some people were tested, some people weren't. Their treatment and the testing, they think, has been very, very standard. But it has had to change, depending on the new information they've been able to garner.
BLITZER: I think all of us, on a day by day basis, we're all getting smarter and smarter about anthrax. Thank you very much, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
And find out more about the nation's preparedness for a bioterrorism attack in my on-line column. You can go read it at cnn.com/wolf, AOL keyword, of course, is CNN.
In the war against terrorism, the United States and its people face threats that go well beyond anthrax. And today President Bush has signed a law that expands the government's powers, to try to root out terrorists here in the United States.
CNN White House correspondent Major Garrett is now live at the White House. He joins me now with more on that. Busy day for the president today, Major.
MAJOR GARRETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Extremely busy day, Wolf. The president concluded it by leaving the White House with Mrs. Bush for Camp David, where he will spend a good part of the weekend. The president dealing with the war on many fronts, not only in Afghanistan, but the anthrax anxiety, and checking on the economy and capping, I think, very intense legislative maneuver to get counterterrorism legislation passed.
The president also met with prominent U.S. business leaders in the East Room before departing for Camp David. He was there on the podium with Vice President Cheney. We haven't seen too much of them together lately, more so this week.
And also, on the economy. After that meeting with business leaders, some key cabinet members came out and talked to reporters. Among them, Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill, who offered this optimistic assessments of where the economy is, and where it may be heading.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL O'NEILL, TREASURY SECRETARY: I think we have just about recovered the pace of where we were on September 10th. If you look at the market as a forecaster of the future, the markets are now above where they were on September -- when we reopened the markets, on September the 17th.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GARRETT: Mr. O'Neill also went on to say the foundations of the U.S. economy are very strong, and even though economic data are in many cases mixed, he said early next year, because of continued efforts by the Federal Reserve and tax cuts passed by the president, and stimulus spending here in Washington, the economy should begin to rebound the very first part of next year.
Under that counterterrorism legislation, Wolf, the president very happy to sign it. He invited prominent Republicans and Democrats here to the White House to underscore the broad bipartisan support that legislation in fact possesses, in both the House and the Senate. He said that overwhelming agreement not only underscored the importance of the legislation, but the urgency of its implementation. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: This bill met with overwhelming agreement in Congress, because it upholds and respects the civil liberties guaranteed by our Constitution. This legislation is essential, not only to pursuing and punishing terrorists, but also preventing more atrocities in the hands of the evil ones. This government will enforce this law with all urgency of a nation at war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GARRETT: Wolf, that legislation gives the FBI and other intelligence agencies broad new powers, powers that many cases they have had to prosecute drug cases and organized crime cases, but they've never had to track terrorism cases. Now they have it -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Major Garrett at the White House, thank you very much.
And the Northern Alliance is upset, and a prominent anti-Taliban leader is executed. We'll discuss the future of Afghanistan with Robin Wright, when we come back.
And who should control security at the airports? The issue is holding up the aviation security bill in Congress. Two Congressman debate with us later on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
To Afghanistan now. A confirmation that the Taliban have executed exiled opposition leader Abdul Haq. From nearby Pakistan, we have two reports, beginning with CNN's Rebecca MacKinnon. She has reaction and more on why Haq had returned to Afghanistan.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REBECCA MACKINNON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Family members of Abdul Haq have confirmed that the exiled commander has indeed been killed inside Afghanistan. Now, CNN sources tell us that Abdul Haq, who had entered Afghanistan on Sunday, was apprehended by the Taliban Thursday evening.
He was then put on trial. along with two other associates Friday Afternoon in Kabul. They were sentenced and convicted for spying for the United States. After the sentence was read, they were taken out and shot.
Now, Abdul Haq's family members say that he was not spying for the United States. They say he went into Afghanistan to further his ongoing project of building a broad-based anti-Taliban coalition, that he was talking to a wide number of people, including members of the Taliban considered to be moderate, and who he was hoping would defect.
It appears, however, that his mission has gone very badly wrong.
This is Rebecca MacKinnon reporting from Peshawar, Pakistan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's been condemnation here in northern Afghanistan, at the killing by the Taliban of the prominent dissident Afghan warlord, Abdul Haq. Burhannuddin Rabbani is the man the United Nations recognizes as the legitimate president of Afghanistan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURHANNUDDIN RABBANI, PRESIDENT OF AFGHANISTAN (through translator): We deeply regret this incident, and it's very indicative of the fact that the Taliban are very cruel. And they never cease their cruelty towards anyone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHANCE: Well, in an interview with CNN, Mr. Rabbani also confirmed to us there have, in the past few days, been meetings between senior Northern Alliance officials and military personnel from the United States and Britain. Earlier sources told CNN one of the main points of discussion in those meetings over the past few days has been the possibility of the deployment of U.S. or British military advisers to this area north of the Afghan capital, Kabul.
Also word that there had been complaints, according to these CNN sources, by the Northern Alliance leadership to the United States, that the air strikes they've been conducting for five consecutive days on the front lines north of Kabul haven't degraded the Taliban defenses enough for a Northern Alliance advance towards the Afghan capital, Kabul.
Matthew Chance, CNN, northern Afghanistan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Thanks to Matthew Chance and Rebecca MacKinnon.
Joining me for some analysis of what this all means, Robin Wright. She's a reporter for the "Los Angeles Times," a real authority on South Asia as well as the Middle East.
Robin, thanks for joining us. Give us some perspective. The execution of Abdul Haq, what does that mean, in the big picture?
ROBIN WRIGHT, "LOS ANGELES TIMES": Well, it's a real setback for the United States, because the U.S. had hoped he would be able to get into one of his tribal strongholds in and around Jalalabad, and help foment a Pashtun uprising against the Taliban.
It's a real boon, as well, for the Taliban, at a critical juncture three weeks into the war, with United States, and it gives it both a tactical and psychological edge, in being able to say, "we have survived. And we actually are able to control parts of the country," where opposition figures have strong support.
BLITZER: Does anyone know for sure what Abdul Haq was doing there? It was obviously a very risky enterprise for him.
WRIGHT: Well, the Northern Alliance claims that he was on a mission that he's actually been trying to do since long before the September 11th attacks, to try to build some kind of broad-based government, to get a support from Pashtuns, for something other than a Taliban government.
BLITZER: And the Pashtuns are the majority of the Afghan people.
WRIGHT: And the majority of the Taliban as well. So this would be a real challenge to the Taliban, unlike the Northern Alliance, which is made up of minority groups, Uzbeks and Tajiks.
BLITZER: Correct me if I'm wrong. The Taliban may be taking a pounding from the U.S. military, but they seem to be scoring points politically, at least in short term.
WRIGHT: I think that's absolutely correct. And I think that its ability to take out opposition leader at a time that the opposition in Peshawar, and a meeting that's supposed to take place this weekend in Turkey, is having some real problems getting together. It is underscored, the huge divisions among the diverse opposition forces: ethnic, tribal, religious among province.
BLITZER: So even the Northern Alliance, even with all this help that the United States is providing, is in no position right now to just walk right in?
WRIGHT: No. Not at all. And, of course there is the danger that if it were allowed to walk into Kabul, which is, you know, not its traditional stronghold, that there would be resistance from the Pashtun. And I think that that's why the United States is scrambling, trying to get together some kind of political unit that could be put into Kabul, that might include the Northern Alliance, but not be only the Northern Alliance.
Because remember, a lot of those people were in control between 1992 and 1994, and they destroyed half of Kabul.
BLITZER: And the Bush administration seems to be -- correct me if I'm wrong -- pinning a lot of hopes on the exiled king of Afghanistan, who's been in Rome, now, for what, three decades. So he's a Pashtun. Is that a legitimate hope, that he'll be able to come and put some sort of temporary regime together?
WRIGHT: I think there's is probably no one else who is in a strong enough position, historically, and because of the clout of the individual. But he is only one man and he's 87 years old. And it is going to be very difficult for him to do more than be a symbol of an attempt to unify.
The various factions in Afghanistan, at the end of the day, have to get together and determine their own broader kind of leadership, some formula for rules, because that is a country that hasn't had any kind of central rule for 20 years.
BLITZER: So what do you think the U.S. will be doing in the short term? To look ahead down the road -- i know the Bush administration doesn't like to talk about nation building, but that's precisely what they seem to be doing.
WRIGHT: Oh, and it's going to be so critical at a lot of different levels, not only finding a political alternative, but also creating some kind of security force to go in to create stability on the ground. Then to reconstruct a nation that really doesn't exist. And the infrastructure has been devastated, and I think the bombings will probably set it back even further.
BLITZER: You were there last year, so you speak with some authority on what used to be Afghanistan, as opposed to what it is right now. Robin Wright, thanks for joining us.
WRIGHT: Thank you.
BLITZER: Thank you.
And find out more about the U.S. military offensive Sunday on "LATE EDITION," when I talk to the Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. That's Sunday, at noon Eastern, 9:00 a.m. Pacific.
We will update you on today's developments in just a moment. We'll examine the role of drug companies in the anthrax investigation. Also, find out how bacteria such as anthrax spreads. An infectious disease expert joins us when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. The day after announcing he negotiated a million-dose deal for Cipro at 95 cents a dose, Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson met with leaders of drug companies, among them Robert Ingram. He's the chief operating officer and president of the pharmaceutical operations division of Glaxo SmithKline. Mr. Ingram, thanks for joining us. What was the main message that the secretary of health and human services gave the drug industry today?
ROBERT INGRAM, CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER, GLAXO SMITHKLINE: Wolf, I think the main message that we received from Secretary Thompson was an invitation to continue to work together; our industry closely working with Secretary Thompson and this administration and leaders of Congress to ensure that we together deliver to the American public an adequate supply of timely antibiotics as well as move forward on a broader front to address the threats of bioterrorism.
BLITZER: As you know, Mr. Ingram, a lot of criticism of the drug industry over the years, even recently for trying to, I guess, do what you're supposed to do, which is to make money. But oftentimes people see that at the expense of individuals who need your medication -- need your drugs. What do you say to people right now who say, "Forget about the copyright. Forget about whatever you think you need. Provide the drugs at very reasonable rates?" INGRAM: Wolf, I think that's absolutely the right question to be asked. And company after company in our industry is coming forward and has already come forward with offers to not only provide medicines but to provide them either at cost or free. My own company, for example, Glaxo SmithKline, has two antibiotics, Augmentin and Amoxil of the penicillin class, that all the data suggest would be effective against anthrax. And we're working with the Food and Drug Administration to make sure we get the approval for that indication. And once we do, we have offered to make them available at no charge to the government for anyone infected with anthrax or exposed to anthrax.
BLITZER: Should Bayer, which manufactures Cipro, the number one drug -- antibiotic -- used for anthrax -- should they have done what you are doing?
INGRAM: I can't speak for Bayer. What I can say is that today a number of the companies -- and in fact our trade association as a whole -- made a commitment to Secretary Thompson to work together to make sure that we are working together to make sure that these medicines are available and that there is no barrier to access, so that Americans can take great confidence in knowing that we have an adequate supply of antibiotics to treat this threat.
BLITZER: And do you believe that these other antibiotics -- penicillin, the other ones that have been recommended in addition to Cipro -- are as effective in dealing with anthrax as Cipro is?
INGRAM: The data today, Wolf -- and leading infectious disease experts, I think, are fairly united -- suggests that all of the tests that have been done in-vitro would suggest that they would -- should be almost equally as effective as Ciprofloxacin.
BLITZER: Mr. Ingram, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it very much.
And are drug companies doing all they can in this battle against bioterrorism? Gardiner Harris covers the health and pharmaceutical beat for the "Wall Street Journal." He joins me now live from New York. What do you think, Gardiner? Are they doing what they should be doing, or could they be doing more?
GARDINER HARRIS, "WALL STREET JOURNAL": Well, clearly they could be doing more. I mean, you could almost see Bob Ingram say, "Please don't threaten our patents. Please don't threaten our patents." Because Bayer has given the entire pharmaceutical industry yet another black eye because they are not selling Cipro at the very lowest price that they possibly can. They're still making a killing on this drug, even when the sales are going to this national pharmaceutical stockpile, which is this set of drugs that the government is going to set aside in case of dire, dire emergency.
So executives like Mr. Ingram and others are coming out and desperately trying to make the news that they are doing other things, that they are doing -- that they are going to work on smallpox vaccines, that they are going to offer other antibiotics, that they are hopefully going to help the country through this crisis. But what we have here is this whole sort of profit versus the public health. And we -- we are OK about companies doing a lot of this public health stuff when things are fine, but when there's war and when there's threats, suddenly we get nervous about companies being in charge of so much of the public health.
BLITZER: Well, what we heard from Bush administration officials, from people of the pharmaceutical industry, "Look, a company like Bayer invests a lot of money. They come up with these new drugs. Why take away their profit even at a time like this? What kind of example would that -- would that send. What kind of motive would the other drug companies have if during a crisis like this they simply said, "No more copyrights?"
HARRIS: Well, that's the line that we have actually been hearing from U.S. governments for a long, long time.
What's actually sort of amazing about the last week is that for the first time we had a top administration official, Tommy Thompson, threatening drug company patents -- which is the very foundation of their business. Lots of other countries have been threatening these patents for a long time.
The patents are not valid in India or China or lot of places. And the U.S. has been trying desperately to get those countries to recognize these patents. But the U.S. just made those positions much more difficult this past week, because Tommy Thompson came out and said, "Listen, Bayer, if you don't sell us this drug for a more reasonable price, we're going to break your patent." And that scared drug companies more than they've ever been scared before, because their best defender of patents finally said, "You know, in some certain circumstances we may break your patents."
And in this circumstance it does -- you know, it may make some sense. I mean, Bayer is still selling Cipro in the private market. They are still making quite a bit of money on this antibiotic. In fact, much more than they were making before. And buying it for the government is this additional thing that's happened only because of the attacks.
BLITZER: Gardiner Harris of the "Wall Street Journal." Thank you very much. We're going to have a quick discussion when we come back on infectious diseases. We'll speak with the world's -- one of the world's leading authorities. But up next. Should airport security workers be government workers? Two congressmen debate the bill that's in front of them.
Later, security in the skies. A look at who won the $200 billion contract to build the next generation of fighter jets.
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BLITZER: Let's get a quick check of our news wire. In Switzerland 120 people remain unaccounted for two days after a fire in an auto tunnel under the Alps. The fire was triggered by the collision of two trucks. The confirmed death toll is 11. The U.S. Olympic Committee today chose four cities to compete to be America's candidate to host the 2012 summer Olympics. They are: Houston, New York, San Francisco, and right here in Washington, D.C. The committee will choose one of them next year to be the American candidate. The International Olympic Committee will name the host city in 2005.
A bus that played a key role in the civil rights movement has been auctioned for nearly half a million dollars. In 1955, Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat on that bus to a white man. Her action led to a boycott of the Montgomery bus system and to a desegregation ruling. The buyer of the bus says it's a cultural institution and it will be preserved.
We'll be back. We'll check out a debate. Who should be in charge of security in airports: government or private workers? Two Congressmen face off when we come back.
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BLITZER: Welcome back. Ramadan, the Muslim holy month, is quickly approaching. And in Afghanistan, so is the winter. And some predict it will be an especially harsh winter this year. What will that mean for the U.S.-led military campaign?
CNN's Joie Chen is standing by in the map room in Atlanta with that -- Joie.
CHEN: Absolutely, Wolf. You know, as we look around our map room, we paid a great deal of attention to Afghanistan, and weather is repeatedly cited as one of the issues that might lie ahead for any forces in this region.
So in order to look a little more closely at the particular situation that Afghan finds itself, and the weather conditions there, take a look at all this.
There are tremendous extremes of weather in this region. Afghanistan itself is slightly smaller than the state of Texas. It is about the size of France. More important to its weather situation is location, location, location. It is about at the same latitude as Albuquerque. Most important, it is completely landlocked. In fact, the closest ocean to it is some 300 miles away.
There are tremendous differences in the terrain and geography of Afghanistan, which results in a wide ranges of temperature and precipitation. When you look from some of the world's highest peaks up in the northeast of Afghanistan -- right up about there -- these are mountains and high passes -- some at 24,000 feet -- that lead up to the Himalayas. So you can imagine how high it is.
Afghanistan also has very low, dry areas -- like those of the south. Very dry, almost desert like. Kabul itself is in a valley. It has lots of water. You might be surprised to know that there's a number of rivers right around in that area. It can get very hot in many places in Afghanistan. Jalalabad has recorded one of the highest temperatures in Afghanistan's history. 120 degrees in July. But you notice there that Jalalabad is just a short distance away from Kabul, and Kabul has located a -- recorded a low at one point of minus 24 degrees.
Now, more typical is what might be expected in the coming weeks. The average highs in November are about 59, the average low is 30. And in December that's high of 47 and a low of 24.
In the next few weeks what we would expect are the cold winds blasting south, as you see there, from Russia and Kazakhstan. That brings those bitterly cold weather in. Heavy snow there, especially in the mountain regions of the northwest, as you've seen. Now, in the Salan (ph) Pass, which is north of Kabul -- this is in the Panjshir valley -- the Salan (ph) Pass can get to snow levels of 10 feet or more. Very, very deep snows there.
And this pass through the Salan (ph) Pass -- through the Panjshir valley is very important to the Northern Alliance. You know that the Northern Alliance has strongholds up in this region in the country, in the northern part of the country. It's very important to for them to be able to get through this pass for the military operations that they want to get down to Kabul. It is a major source of water, of course, to get heavy snows like that.
But with very few roads around Afghanistan -- indeed, there's only one really big pass perimeter road around all of Afghanistan -- crossing a key pass like this one with snow is very tough work. Even in a four-wheel-drive vehicle it would be very tough to get through there.
And Kabul, we should know, can get very snowy itself. In fact, about two feet of snow is likely to fall, beginning in November. And Wolf, that is just a few days away.
BLITZER: Very impressive, Joie. Thank you very much. I love that map room.
When we come back, airport security: Should private individuals be in charge, or federal workers? We'll debate that issue when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. We have often have reports about the Muslim world's relation with the West. Today Rusty Dornin looks at not how the Muslims are getting along with the West, but in the west. Montana.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A small town in the Big Sky state. Bozeman, Montana is a long way from Jiddah, Saudi Arabia. So when Abdullah Bahaziq told his friends he wanted to study electrical engineering there, he got plenty of advice. ABDULLAH BAHAZIQ, SAUDI MUSLIM STUDENT: Actually, I heard a lot of people saying that, you know, don't go there. There's a lot of cowboys, a lot of -- you know, they don't like outsiders. Montana loves its own people.
DORNIN: Stereotypes that Bahaziq ignored when he enrolled three years ago at Montana State University. But after September 11, it was the stereotype of a tall bearded Muslim student which worried Bahaziq and other Arab students.
BAHAZIQ: And we thought, you know, maybe it's going to be bad for us, you know, to stay around. Or maybe even to walk or maybe go out.
DORNIN: While some Arab students in other parts of the United States have dropped out of school and gone home for fear of reprisal, not one Arab, Muslim or international student has left Bozeman.
AVIANSH SHANTARAM, STUDENT: I feel pretty safe over here, myself, but I still have to be careful. You never know what's going to happen.
DORNIN: Aviansh Shantaram is Hindu, not Muslim. He worried at first his physical appearance would bring him trouble. Not anymore.
(on camera): So you feel that this is a pretty safe place?
SHANTARAM: Oh, yeah, for sure. For sure. You can't get safer than this. My sister is in Seattle and she -- and I've heard of worse stuff happening there than here.
SHADMANI AMIN, MONTANA STATE INSTRUCTOR: You have to wait for that one, too, because it takes time to warm it up. So now...
DORNIN (voice-over): Shadmani Amin teaches chemistry part time. She felt her traditional head covering, known as a hijab, made her a target. But even when she goes shopping in Bozeman, people approach her to tell her she should feel safe here.
AMIN: After that I have not faced anything. We were really surprised, comparing with other people in other cities, compared to them what is happening us to. People here are so much nicer to us.
DORNIN: Bozeman has its share of cowboys, and yes, even rednecks. But it's also a university town, eclectic and hip. It was the school's president who reached out the day of the attacks to ask students and the community for help.
JEFF GAMBLE, MONTANA STATE UNIVERSITY: So when I asked for people to act with civility and compassion, I wasn't at all surprised that they reacted that way, because it fits what they already do.
DORNIN: Bahaziq's family still call every week, urging him to think about coming home.
BAHAZIQ: And I tried to explain to them a couple of times now it's safe here. Don't listen to the news. Forget about it.
DORNIN: In the midst of the heartland, a town where even during tough times tolerance wins out over suspicion.
Rusty Dornin, CNN, Bozeman, Montana.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: More changes in the works at Boston's Logan Airport, where hijackers boarded the two planes that crashed into the World Trade Center. Closed-circuit TV monitors are going to be installed, and Logan will become one of the first airports in the nation to install face-recognition technology. These computers scan the faces of anyone passing through checkpoints, and compare them with the facial features of suspected terrorists.
Other aviation security measures are being debated here in Washington on Capitol Hill. The Senate already has passed its version of the bill by a 100 to nothing vote. A vote in the House is expected next week. Today, a group of Democrats called for immediate passage. Among them: Representative Peter DeFazio of Oregon. He joins us now live from Eugene, along with Republican Representative Roy Blunt of Missouri. He's in Springfield. Congressman DeFazio, why do you think the federal government can do a better job at those checkpoints in airports than the private sector?
REP. PETER DEFAZIO (D), OREGON: Well, Wolf, it's a federal federal government, law enforcement, national security function, much like federal government does the FBI, or we do customs, we do INS. We even do agriculture inspections with federal law enforcement officers.
We have a history of 30 years of failure of the private firms in this country. Yeah, it's security on the cheap. That's true. But low morale. High turnover. Repeated failures of federal tests over 30 years. One of the largest firms in the United States, Argenbright, is under criminal indictment for the second time in one year, having just been fined a million dollars last year and found criminally to have violated the law by hiring known felons, maintaining known felons on staff and failing to conduct background checks.
BLITZER: OK. Congressman Blunt. Why do you disagree?
REP. ROY BLUNT (R), MISSOURI: Well, Wolf, I think you mentioned Logan Airport. Logan Airport hired the former security chief of El Al, the Israeli airline, to come in and look at how they ought to run their system. One reason we disagree and think the president's plan for federal control, federal supervision at all airports is exactly where we ought to go, but with a strong private sector component, because that is exactly what the European countries have done. It's what Israel has done.
They all rejected a hundred percent federal -- national system to go to a system that is more of a federalism model, where you have a strong private-sector supervisory component at every location. You have federal rules and regulations for the first time in 30 years, and then you have a private sector performance and flexibility that bolsters that up. We want the safest system. And we believe the experience and all the facts are on the side of the safest system being the system that's replaced the 100 percent government system all over Europe and in Israel.
BLITZER: Congressman DeFazio, you heard that -- what he said about what's going on in Europe and in Israel. Why not just simply follow their example?
DEFAZIO: If you want to follow the El Al example, that means background checks and 30-minute interrogations for every passenger. They fly less people all year than we fly in one day in the United States. In Europe, you have 400, 1000 screeners in a country and a private security firm with often one federal law enforcement officer supervising two private employees.
If we did that here, it would cost more. Why fight the having the federal government doing a legitimate security law enforcement function? When you fly into Hawaii, it's a federal law enforcement officer with a beagle, who is even deemed to be a federal law enforcement officer, who checks for contraband agricultural goods. But knives, guns, bombs -- that should be the private sector who's failing us miserably now?
BLITZER: Congressman Blunt. It sailed through the Senate 100 to nothing. Why were they wrong?
BLUNT: Well, I think they just didn't look at it carefully enough. Every day, as people understand the real facts of this system, this debate has shifted. In fact, some of the senators announced yesterday
DEFAZIO: We did it wrong.
BLUNT: That they were wrong and we were right, and they are now supporting our bill. Just like the president and the Secretary of transportation, Norm Mineta -- Norm Mineta are fully in support of our bill. They know it's the best approach.
It gives the president the flexibility to put a system in place that will ensure federal control and responsibility for this system for the first time.
BLITZER: Congressman DeFazio, why not give the president the benefit of the doubt during a crisis situation like this and let him decide what is in the best national interest?
(AUDIO GAP)
BLITZER: Congressman DeFazio? I guess you can't hear me. I was going to say -- Congressman DeFazio, can you hear me? Can you hear me? I guess you can't. And we apologize for that. Let's thank both of our guests. Congressman DeFazio, Congressman Blunt, a good debate. We apologize for losing the audio with Congressman DeFazio just at the last minute. Thank you very much. That vote is coming up next week in the House of Representatives. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Much of the news of the past week has been about anthrax, something Americans are still learning about. By coincidence, experts on infectious disease such as anthrax have been meeting this week in San Francisco. Joining us now from San Francisco, is Dr. John Bartlett, Chief of Infectious Diseases at John Hopkins School of Medicine. Dr. Bartlett, thanks for joining us.
It seems -- correct me if I'm wrong -- the more we learn over these last couple of weeks about anthrax, the more we realize, the less we know. Is that fair?
DR. JOHN BARTLETT, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Well, I'm not sure it is entirely fair. I think -- I think we're putting it altogether in a -- in a fashion in which we now have sort of a comprehensive idea about what's going on and how to respond.
BLITZER: What do you think of this -- this report that we broke at the top of this hour that the CDC -- the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention -- now want to begin vaccines for certain sectors of workers who could be at high risk beyond the military? Anthrax vaccines.
BARTLETT: Well, the anthrax vaccine has been around for a long time and it seems to work. And that is probably sage advice for some people who are at high risk.
BLITZER: Is it fair to say, as some in the military have suggested, that that anthrax vaccine is not safe, causes undue problems for people who receive it?
BARTLETT: I think it's a risk/benefit ratio. I think so far the data supporting its use is very strong, and the data saying that it has a lot of side effects and so forth is scientifically quite weak. So without getting into the details about the vaccine, I think that at this moment the vaccine looks awfully good.
BLITZER: Have you been surprised over these past few days about learning how anthrax may be spread through the air with these envelopes at post offices?
BARTLETT: I think we've know that there could be air -- effective aerosol dissemination of anthrax for a long time. What we didn't -- I thought we anticipated that it would be distributed through the air. What we didn't anticipate necessarily that it would -- is that it would be distributed through the mail system.
BLITZER: Dr. Bartlett, I want to thank you so much for joining us. Dr. John Bartlett of Johns Hopkins University. Thank you for being with us.
And I'll be back in one hour with much more coverage, including a look at Saudi Arabia's role in America's new war. Is Riyadh Washington's fair weather friend? Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. CNN's coverage of America's new war continues with "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE," which begins right now.
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