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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Target Terrorism

Aired October 26, 2001 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: "Target Terrorism." With anthrax still turning up at government buildings, including the CIA and a mail facility for the Supreme Court, President Bush signs new and very far-reaching anti-terror legislation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The changes, effective today, will help counter a threat like no other our nation has ever faced.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: U.S. troops have fought and died defending Saudi Arabia, but with their own interests to protect, will the Saudis help or hinder the war against terror? I'll ask former U.S. Ambassador Richard Murphy, and former Pentagon official Richard Perle.

The Taliban say they've executed a key opposition figure. What was he doing inside Afghanistan?

We'll go live to Pakistan, and we'll get the latest from the Pentagon as "America Targets Terrorism."

Good evening. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting tonight from Washington. We're following developments on several fronts at this hour.

Let's get a quick check: Anthrax has now been detected in five states and the District of Columbia. The Supreme Court's off-site mail inspection warehouse is one of the latest locations to test positive. The Court was closed today for anthrax testing. No one who works in the building has shown any sign of exposure.

Anthrax has also been detected at mail facilities in Northern Virginia serving the CIA and the State Department, at the Walter Reed Army Institute in Maryland, and in the District of Columbia, on Capitol Hill, at the Brentwood mail facility, and at the Anacostia Naval Station, which handles mail to the White House.

Meanwhile, officials at the CDC have decided to give the anthrax vaccine to some high-risk individuals, including investigators, lab workers and decontamination crews. As the federal government devotes all of its resources to the anthrax crisis, President Bush has signed legislation giving law enforcement authorities some powerful new tools in the war against terrorism.

Let's go live to CNN's White House correspondent Major Garrett for details -- Major.

MAJOR GARRETT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the president said today America fights an enemy that hates everything the nation stands for, but he said that every resource the federal government has will be used to prevail. But even as the federal government acquires new powers to combat terrorism, answers to the source of America's anthrax terror remain elusive.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): The warrior president told top business leaders he still doesn't know the source of anthrax now in America, but does know the value system.

BUSH: Anybody who puts anthrax, trying to kill American citizens shares the same set of values. Whoever has done it shares that same value of evil that we saw on September the 11th. And we'll find them and bring them to justice as well.

GARRETT: The president's spokesman said the anthrax could have been produced by a skilled scientist.

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: It could only be produced by a Ph.D. microbiologist. And it would have to have been done in a small, well-equipped microbiology lab, or it could be in something like a small microbiology lab. That does not rule out that it could be state-sponsored.

GARRETT: The bottom line on the anthrax culprit or culprits: Still more questions than answers. But amid the uncertainty, the president signed a new counter-terrorism law he said would protect civil liberties and blunt future attacks.

BUSH: This legislation is essential not only to pursuing and punishing terrorists, but also preventing more atrocities in the hands of the evil ones. This government will enforce this law with all the urgency of a nation at war.

GARRETT: Key provisions of the counter-terror law include: the power to detain foreign nationals for up to seven days without charges, the ability to win court orders to tap numerous phones and to scrutinize certain e-mail records. It also allows secret grand jury testimony to be shared with intelligence agencies.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GARRETT: Fresh from that legislative victory, Wolf, the president pressed Congress for more: tens of billions in tax cuts, a new energy policy and expanded free trade powers, Senate Democrats have resisted all three, which means it's now time for Mr. Bush to put his wartime popularity to the test.

BLITZER: Major, we also heard today from the treasury secretary, Paul O'Neill. What was the headline about what he had to say about the U.S. economy?

GARRETT: The most optimistic assessment of the position of the U.S. economy from a senior administration official in many, many weeks. Mr. O'Neill said the economy has basically come back to where it was on September 10th, and by the early next year, it should be in a rebound phase -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Major Garrett on the North Lawn of the White House. Thank you very much.

The Taliban, meanwhile, say they executed a key opposition leader, Commander Abdul Haq, today in Afghanistan.

Joining us now live from Islamabad with the latest, CNN's senior international correspondent Sheila MacVicar.

Sheila, what happened in Afghanistan today?

SHEILA MACVICAR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, very bad news indeed for those who were attempting to put together a coalition to form some kind of post-Taliban government. It appears that Abdul Haq, a very well-respected man, a guerrilla commander who won that respect battling the Soviets, had crossed into Afghanistan in recent days. His purpose was to meet with tribal leaders in an area allied to the Taliban, but not controlled by the Taliban.

Now these tribal leaders and their support are considered key to any future post-Taliban regime. He was hoping to persuade these tribal leaders to abandon the Taliban and join up with the opposition forces. Instead it appears he was captured and handed over to the Taliban.

Now, the Taliban say he was carrying a satellite telephone, a lot of U.S. dollars, and what they describe as very important documents. And after a very short trial today, he was hanged along with at least two others who were traveling with him -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Sheila, 24 hours ago, when we spoke, you said they were bracing in Pakistan for anti-U.S. demonstrations today on this Muslim day of rest. What happened?

MACVICAR: Well, you're right. There were promises -- threats rather from this large group of mostly religious parties that have coalesced in Pakistan, anti-war, anti-American parties. They were threatening to bring millions of people out into the street.

Now we did see a couple of significant demonstrations, one in Karachi, where there is a large population of people who are from Afghanistan and who do support the Taliban. They say they're anywhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 to 20,000 people on the streets. But elsewhere, throughout the country, demonstrations but much, much smaller than what they were threatening -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Sheila MacVicar in Islamabad, thank you.

Meanwhile, a key partner in the Persian Gulf War coalition a decade ago is a much more cautious partner in the alliance against terror right now. Saudi Arabia controls vast oil reserves, but its citizens have seen their income steadily decline. The Saudi monarchy is the custodian of Islam's holiest sites, but faces new religious pressures.

CNN's Jonathan Mann has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN MANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Thousands of young Saudi men heard the call of holy war in the '80s when Afghanistan fought the invasion by the USSR. Many were radicalized by their experience.

Many others were embittered by another invasion closer to home, when they learned their own nearly undefended kingdom needed U.S. troops to face down the Iraqis who conquered neighboring Kuwait in 1990. Those men envisage a different kind of kingdom now.

WYCHE FOWLER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO SAUDI ARABIA: It would be more like the Taliban than strong pro-Western people, as the Saudis undoubtedly are.

MANN: The radicals did not turn directly on the king, but on the infidels who came to defend him. Nineteen people were killed in the 1996 bombing attack on U.S. personnel at Khobar Towers in Dhahran. It's believed, in the West, to have been carried out by Saudi extremists, but outside the kingdom very few people know. The Saudis are widely reported to have stymied a U.S. investigation even as they pursued their own.

And the U.S. forces have since retreated to the Prince Sultan base in a remote stretch of desert south of Riyadh. These are not recent pictures. The Saudi government doesn't want anyone to see the base on TV these days. And although, 6,000 Americans have been positioned there, it is inviting no others. Saudi Arabia won't let those U.S. troops or their airplanes take part in air strikes on Afghanistan either.

Devout, disaffected and disgusted by their nation's military weakness, some Saudis are ready to follow Osama bin Laden. No one knows how many, but journalist Seymour Hersh says the number is high.

SEYMOUR HERSH, AUTHOR AND JOURNALIST: Osama bin Laden is probably the most popular person in that country outside the royal family.

MANN: "The New York Times" reports that U.S. and Saudi officials now believe that 15 of the 19 men who carried out the September hijackings were from Saudi Arabia. But the Saudis have said very little publicly about the attacks, except to condemn them and condemn as well the air strikes on Afghanistan that the U.S. is carrying out in response.

And U.S. newspapers are full of stories leaked by frustrated officials about the lack of Saudi help in tracking down the hijackers. The stories are regularly denied higher up.

BUSH: As far as the Saudi Arabians go -- and the secretary can comment on this; he's had more recent contact with them than I have -- but they've been nothing but cooperative.

MANN: The royal family of Saudi Arabia never publicly says more than it has to. Right now, it has good reason to be careful with its words.

Jonathan Mann, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: The U.S. stood by Saudi Arabia in the Persian Gulf War, but is Saudi Arabia a fair-weather friend in the war against terrorism? I'll ask the former ambassador, Richard Murphy, and former defense official Richard Perle.

And later, the Pentagon warns there's no the quick fix in Afghanistan. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

Defended by U.S. forces, Saudi Arabia won't let those forces use its bases in the war against terrorism. It's exiled Osama bin Laden, but has his al Qaeda network found support in the desert kingdom?

Joining me now: the former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia, Richard Murphy, who's now director for Middle East studies at the Council on Foreign Relations -- and Richard Perle, a former assistant secretary of defense, now with the American Enterprise Institute here in Washington.

Thanks to both of you for joining us.

And Richard Perle, I want you to listen to what Ari Fleischer, the White House press secretary, said today on the Saudi cooperation with the U.S. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president is very satisfied with the cooperation the United States has received from Saudi Arabia in the war against terrorism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Richard Perle, if the president is satisfied, why aren't you? RICHARD PERLE, FORMER ASSISTANT DEFENSE SECRETARY: Well I think even if the president were not satisfied, this would hardly be the time to express dissatisfaction,

But let's take him at his word that he is satisfied. I think it may be in part because we haven't asked the Saudis to do very much.

BLITZER: What do you want them to do?

PERLE: Well, it would be a very good thing if they stopped shipping large amounts of money to terrorist organizations including the al Qaeda network.

BLITZER: And you believe they still are doing that?

PERLE: Because that's what they've been doing.

BLITZER: You know, the president, when he addressed Congress, Mr. Ambassador -- he was very specific.

Listen to what he said on that day. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Every nation in every region now has a decision to make. Either you're with us or you are with the terrorists.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: You heard Richard Perle say they're still shipping large amounts of money to the terrorists.

RICHARD MURPHY, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO SAUDI ARABIA: Who is "they"? I mean, are we talking about the government itself? Are we talking about individuals who, wittingly, are helping the terrorists or who are contributing to charitable foundations and the money is finding its way to the terrorists?

BLITZER: Richard Perle, who are you talking about?

PERLE: Well I think there are elements in both.

These charitable organizations have moved billions of dollars to institutions around the world that are propagating the most virulent form of anti-Western, anti-American sentiment. It is helping to create a culture in which the recruitment of terrorists against this country is easy. And it's taking place around the world and it's been going on for years.

And the Saudis do it, I believe, largely to keep terrorists away from their own fragile regime.

BLITZER: Strong accusation. MURPHY: Well it's very strong, and in effect saying, that they're paying protection money so nothing happens against them.

I was in Saudi Arabia three weeks ago. They're perfectly clear, at the senior levels, that they are in the gun sights of Osama bin Laden. Get the Americans out of the Arabian peninsula and get the leaders that brought them into the Arabian peninsula. They're not interested in financing their own suicide.

BLITZER: Is that what you sense?

PERLE: Well I think no one knowingly, wittingly, finances one's own suicide. But it is possible to make serious judgmental errors and I believe the Saudis have been doing that over a long period of time.

They have helped to create the Frankenstein that will now consume them, or at least will take a serious run at consuming them.

And I think it's simply been a miscalculation. I think they thought they could buy their way to safety. And for a while it appeared to work, but now a network has been established that is probably beyond their control.

BLITZER: The critics of Saudi Arabia, inside the administration and outside the administration, like Mr. Perle, make the points that the Saudis are not cooperating fully with the investigation, not freezing the assets of some of the groups that the United States has frozen the assets, and not allowing U.S. warplanes to launch strikes from Saudi soil.

MURPHY: Well, I'll take the last one.

They, about four years ago, decided that we weren't going anywhere in terms of getting rid of Saddam Hussein in Iraq and it was becoming an object of criticism from their own public that planes were launching to bomb targets in Iraq from Saudi soil. So they said, don't launch attacks from here.

They've said the same thing about Afghanistan. We have worked around that. They are cooperating in a lot of ways with our military then, as they did back in 1990-91 with the Desert Storm and they're continuing that cooperation today.

But some things they just find beyond the limit.

BLITZER: They have their own domestic constraints, Mr. Perle. They have to worry about public opinion within Saudi Arabia.

PERLE: Well I don't think they worry about public opinion the way people do who have to face the electorate at regular intervals because there are no elections in Saudi Arabia.

BLITZER: But the monarchy could be vulnerable, couldn't it?

PERLE: I think the monarchy is indeed vulnerable. It's vulnerable to the discontent that you would expect in a society in which a small number of people live lavish lives and many people struggle simply to get along.

So they have domestic problems at home and they've tried to solve some of those problems by exporting potential terror against themselves.

BLITZER: How vulnerable is the monarchy?

MURPHY: I don't think it is vulnerable.

I think they built, over the last two centuries, a relationship with the religious -- with the clerics in Saudi Arabia, the Wahabi clerics, and there's a mutual reinforcement. They support the royal family, the royal family supports them and each constrains the other. So it's -- and this business of not bombing another Moslem state comes from the religious.

BLITZER: The U.S. has to be sensitive to the Saudi situation, given the fact that 20 percent of America's imported oil comes from Saudi Arabia.

The situations could be a lot worse if there were a Taliban-like regime in Saudi Arabia.

PERLE: Of course it could and that would be a very serious matter.

There are things we can do. We should pass some energy legislation. The Democrats are sitting on an energy bill that is standing in the way of moving toward energy independence, that should cease.

But I think the ambassador has correctly identified the relationship. Wahabism support for a particularly violent, vicious brand of Islam which has nothing to do with the peaceful origins of Islam in the Koran, but is deeply hostile to the United States.

BLITZER: 10 seconds...

MURPHY: Extraordinary choice of adjectives.

Violent? Vicious? No -- rigid, narrow, strict.

BLITZER: Ambassador Murphy, Richard Perle -- thanks to both of you.

And a progress report and a plea for patience -- when we come back, an update on America's new war as air strikes in Afghanistan approach their third week.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. We go now to the Pentagon for an assessment of the day's air strikes. CNN's military affairs correspondent Jamie McIntyre joins us now live. And Jamie, you have some news on the execution earlier today of the Afghan opposition leader Abdul Haq?

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, that was a setback for the United States, because he was considered one of the people that the U.S. could possibly build a new government around. CNN has learned that a U.S. official has told CNN that Haq used his cell phone to call a friend in Pakistan when he was under attack in Afghanistan, that friend then calling a friend in Washington, asking for help.

Now, according to this U.S. official, the only weapons system that was available on short notice was an unmanned predator drone armed with Hellfire missiles which fired at the Taliban, but it really didn't help Abdul Haq. He was still captured. U.S. officials saying simply that that system really isn't designed for that -- that coming on a day when the Pentagon was insisting that its war in Afghanistan is on track.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice-over): The Pentagon is releasing more cockpit video showing Taliban forces hit near the front lines, a helicopter and a tank near the capital of Kabul and an armored vehicle on the outskirts of Mazar-e-Sharif.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are slowly but surely dismantling Taliban defenses, Taliban military installations, the Taliban command and control structure -- all aimed at bringing the al Qaeda criminals to justice.

MCINTYRE: As the bombing campaign approaches the three-week mark, the Bush administration is facing more questions about how soon it will show results.

BUSH: The American people are going to have to be patient, just like we are. They're going to have to be determined, just like our military is. And with that patience and with that determination, we will eventually smoke them out of their holes and get them and bring them to justice.

MCINTYRE: Thursday's strikes included terrorist and Taliban command and control elements in caves and camp complexes, according to the Pentagon. But with the Taliban hunkering down and winter fast approaching, successful required ground assaults even more daring than last week's commando raid by U.S. special forces into southern Afghanistan.

That point was underscored Friday by Britain's announcement that 200 elite Royal Marines in Oman as part of an exercise will move to a British aircraft carrier to join U.S. special forces already on ships off the coast of Pakistan.

ADAM INGRAM, BRITISH ARMED FORCES MINISTER: The deployment of our armed forces is a grave step. We do it in the confident knowledge that by doing so we can depend upon them to make a difference.

MCINTYRE: The Pentagon is fighting the perception that the Taliban is turning out to be a tougher-than-expected foe, and that the bombing is not achieving the goal of toppling their regime.

REAR ADM. JOHN STUFFLEBEEM, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: I don't personally believe that we are being bogged down or are getting bogged down. This is a very complicated operation. This is not traditional force on force warfare.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: And this -- late this evening, the Pentagon released word admitting that it had in fact again accidentally bombed a warehouse owned by the International Committee of the Red Cross, an announcement from the U.S. central command saying that some U.S. Navy F-18s had some bombs go astray and also B-52s dropping bombs in that area -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon, thank you very much.

And it's official. Lockheed Martin has beat out Boeing in winning the largest military contract in Pentagon history. After intense review, the Pentagon chose Lockheed Martin to build the next generation fighter jet, the joint strike fighter. The jets will replace aging fighter fleets used by the Air Force, Navy and Marines. The contract is said to be worth at least $200 billion.

And for our viewers in North America, "CROSSFIRE" comes your way at the bottom of the hour. Tucker Carlson is standing by with a preview -- Tucker.

TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST, CNN'S "CROSSFIRE": Wolf, it's been the friendliest six weeks the Capitol Hill has ever seen. Agreement has replaced debates, hugs have replaced rancor. Is Washington finally preparing for return to politics as usual? Does getting back to normal mean getting back to partisanship? You haven't heard the word much recently, but you will tonight -- politics, politics, politics. That's our beat, we'll be back shortly to cover it on "CROSSFIRE" -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you very much, Tucker.

And with all the anthrax cases linked to tainted mail, the Postal Service is now looking towards technology to protect against the deadly bacteria. That story and a look at the latest developments when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Let's take a quick look at the latest developments this hour. President Bush has signed into law sweeping legislation that grants authorities new powers in capturing suspected terrorists. Among other things, the bill expands wire tapping authority and strengthens penalties for those who aid terrorists.

And the Postal Service is trying to obtain electron beam machines to sanitize anthrax-tainted mail. So far, two postal workers have been killed from anthrax; several others have been exposed. That's all the time we have tonight. I'll see you Sunday on a special "LATE EDITION." Among my guests, the Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. That's Sunday, noon Eastern, 9:00 a.m. Pacific.

Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "CROSSFIRE" begins right now.

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