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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
America Strikes Back: New York Inhalation Anthrax Patient Dies; U.S. Economy Weakest in a Decade
Aired October 31, 2001 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Today on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: "America Strikes Back."
It's a huge mystery. New York's first inhalation anthrax patient dies. And worried officials don't have a clue how or where the 61- year-old woman was exposed to the deadly microbe.
Battered by terrorism, the U.S. economy is the weakest in a decade and could get worse.
President Bush has a message for Congress.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Get to work and get something done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: As Congress works on boosting aviation security, why are some members calling for religious or ethnic profiling of passengers?
What does this latest wave of air strikes signal? We will go to the Pentagon and to Taliban-controlled Afghanistan as America strikes back.
Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting from Washington.
A day after showing the baseball world he still has a good pitching arm, the president of the United States plays hardball with the U.S. Congress, trying to end the nation's economic slump. This hour, you will hear what he had to say.
Plus, anthrax death now hits New York City.
Here's CNN's Joie Chen in Atlanta with that and a quick check of all the day's headlines -- Joie.
JOIE CHEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good afternoon, Wolf.
We do want to bring our viewers up to date on the most latest information. Today's death of a New York woman of inhalation anthrax is presenting serious new challenges in America's war against terrorism. The victim, 61-year-old Kathy Nguyen, worked at Manhattan's Eye, Ear and Throat Hospital. She is the fourth person in this nation to die of inhalation anthrax since last month's terror attacks. Investigators and health officials say they have no idea how she contracted the disease.
Three more suspected cases of anthrax were reported today in New Jersey and one in Delaware, as well. A 51-year-old accountant in New Jersey identified with skin anthrax on Monday has been treated and released from the hospital. She lives near a mail-processing center that handled tainted letters. But she says she does not remember opening any suspicious mail.
Indiana's governor says anthrax spores were found on a piece of postal equipment sent to an Indianapolis center for cleaning. Governor Frank O'Bannon says that the contaminated device came from a mail-processing center in Washington.
President Bush minced no words today in telling Congress to get to work and pass an economic stimulus package. He says the measure is needed because, in his words, Americans are having tough times and confidence is down. He pointed to figures out today showing that the economy shrank in the third quarter. That's the biggest drop since 1991.
Officials have recovered about $200 million worth of gold from the World Trade Center site. This gold, belonging to the Bank of Nova Scotia, was reportedly buried in the rubble.
The Federal Aviation Administration today imposed a no-fly zone for private planes over Chicago. This move was requested by Mayor Richard Daley, who said the Sears Tower, now the nation's tallest building, must be protected. The ban applies to pilots who do not file flight plans and who fly to according visual flight rules.
And in Afghanistan, U.S. warplanes today bombed Taliban targets in the southern stronghold city, Kandahar. Pentagon officials also confirmed U.S. planes are dropping heavy bomb loads -- it's a tactic known by many as carpet-bombing -- on Taliban frontline positions north of the capital city, Kabul.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is scheduled to visit Moscow and Central Asia to discuss the Afghan military campaign. First off is Moscow on Friday for talks with his Russian counterpart.
We will continue to watch all the latest developments here. Now let's go back to Wolf in Washington.
BLITZER: Thanks, Joie.
Health and law enforcement officials are taking every step they can think of to solve what may be the most mysterious anthrax case to date. A 61-year-old employee of a New York City hospital died today of inhalation anthrax. Unlike the vast majority of the other anthrax cases, how this woman got the disease remains a complete mystery.
CNN's Brian Palmer is in New York. He's covering this very complex story -- Brian.
BRIAN PALMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Wolf. You have pretty well summed it up.
Investigators here in New York are still trying to determine how a 61-year-old hospital stockroom worker, Kathy Nguyen, contracted a fatal case of pulmonary, or inhalation anthrax. We talked to the FBI a few minutes ago. They say the investigation continues of her home, of the place where she works, the Manhattan Eye, Ear and Throat Hospital. That hospital is actually closed today.
Preliminary tests have been conducted on her clothing. There is nothing conclusive yet. The FBI also says they are interviewing anyone with whom she may have had contact over the past few weeks: friends, acquaintances, family, anyone.
Now, this case is particularly puzzling because previous cases of anthrax -- the previous cases we have seen in the past few weeks have involved people who have come in contact with tainted or contaminated mail: Bob Stevens in Florida at American Media; Joseph Curseen and Thomas Morris in the Brentwood facility in Washington, D.C. Kathy Nguyen, they are still puzzled as to how she could have come in contact with anthrax -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Brian, is there any indication whatsoever that she was near, let's say, the mailroom over at that hospital? You're standing in front of the hospital. Any indication she may have been in contact with any mail whatsoever?
PALMER: Wolf, first of all, we're standing in front of the Lenox Hill Hospital, where Kathy Nguyen was treated and also where precautionary doses of antibiotics are being offered to people who worked at the hospital where she worked.
As far as how she may have come in contact with this mail, no one is really sure. The stockroom where she worked used to be a mailroom, reportedly. But that doesn't really offer anyone any solid information about how anthrax spores could have passed to her -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Brian Palmer in New York, thank you very much.
And neighbors of Kathy Nguyen say she was special because she treated them like family. Nguyen fled her native Vietnam some 24 years ago alone and without money. An American soldier helped her come to this country. That soldier was also a New York City police officer. She got married, but the relationship later ended in divorce. Her only son was killed in a car accident years ago.
CNN's Gary Tuchman joins us now with a look at how officials are trying to trace events in Nguyen's life -- Gary.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, this afternoon, we spent several hours in the apartment complex that Kathy Nguyen lived in in the Bronx. And it's fair to say that the people who live in that apartment complex are saddened, stunned and scared.
There have been no lab tests of their apartments in the same building yet. They are quite concerned. This is the apartment that Kathy Nguyen lived in, the third floor, in the Morrisania section of the Bronx. Lab workers, health workers have been inside there. That's her next-door neighbor, who has Halloween decorations up. There were actually children trick-or-treating in the building when we were there today.
Also, a mailman came in the building, delivered the mail inside the building, and actually -- and it was a very surreal sight -- put mail in Kathy Nguyen's box this morning. We asked him about that. He didn't speak much English. He told us he has never put in any suspicious mail. This is him right now actually putting the mail in her box and other boxes in the building. He has never delivered any suspicious mail. But it was his obligation. He had mail for her and he was going to deliver the mail to her today, even though he knew that she had passed away.
We talked with a neighbor who lived right next to Kathy Nguyen. He says he saw Kathy Nyugen on Sunday. That was the day she went to the hospital. He says she said to him she did not feel good. He said, "Can I get an ambulance for you?" She said, "That won't be necessary." She has her own way of going to the hospital, but she was going to go to the hospital to get treated.
We talked with another neighbor who said he had a conversation with her a couple weeks ago, where he warned her to be careful about anthrax. "Are you reading about that in the news? Are you hearing about that in the news? Make sure you wash your hands after you get your mail."
And then another neighbor said she that she got warned by Kathy Nguyen about anthrax. That particular neighbor said Kathy Nguyen said, "Please make sure you wash your hands when you get your mail." Kathy Nguyen is in the middle of the picture you are looking at there right now. This picture was taken about 10 years ago. She is surrounded by friends who also lived in the building.
We are told, according to authorities, that they are checking her travel patterns: Where did she travel domestically? Where did she travel internationally? We are told by her neighbors, her friends in the building, that Kathy Nguyen lived there since the 1970s. So these people knew her well, because many people in this building lived there that long. We are told that Kathy Nguyen has not gone anywhere outside of New York City for at least six years.
They say they believe that she went to Israel on vacation six or seven years ago. But since then, she has worked very hard. She has had the same routine. She has stayed in New York. She has gone to the hospital where she has worked. She has came home at night. And she has been a wonderful neighbor, who everyone in that building says they loved very much -- Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: And, Gary, very briefly, she just came down with the symptoms last Thursday. Is that right, because it seems to have gone very quickly, the progression of this disease?
TUCHMAN: Thursday she came down with symptoms.
Still another neighbor told us that Thursday Kathy Nguyen told her she was feeling a little bit tired. That is what she remembered. So she came down with the symptoms on Thursday, went into the hospital on Sunday. Apparently, this neighbor we talked to may have been one of the last people in the building to see her, because she was asking about a hospital. And she ended up going to the hospital.
But, yes, she came down with the symptoms on Thursday, in the hospital on Sunday. And this morning, we find out the sad, tragic news that she has passed away.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Gary Tuchman, in New York.
And as we mentioned, Kathy Nguyen had no known connection to the Postal Service, the news media or to politics. So the question comes back to this: How did she contract inhalation anthrax? That's the most serious kind.
Joining us now with some insight: CNN medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
Sanjay, is there any possible explanation that comes, that jumps to your mind?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: No, not really, Wolf.
It is very hard to explain. Gary Tuchman just gave a really thorough sort of profile of her. One of -- we did a simple experiment here, Wolf, where we actually tried to see if envelopes filled with, in this case talcum powder as an adjunct for anthrax spores, could actually cross-contaminate other mail and thus be sent to individuals as nonsuspicious packages.
We actually showed that we did see powder actually go from one envelope to another. That is a possibility, Wolf, that is really confusing. It does certainly change the landscape of everything in what is considered suspicious, what is not, and who is at risk.
But really, either from a medical or other sort of investigative perspective, we really don't know at this point.
BLITZER: Inhalation anthrax is the most deadly form. There are now four people who have died from inhalation anthrax, but some others who have had inhalation anthrax are apparently recovering. What's the key ingredient? What makes the difference medically between living and dying?
GUPTA: Right. Well, first of all, you know, this 80 to 90 percent number that we've been hearing so much about -- that's the chance of dying of inhalational anthrax -- those numbers are from 25 years ago, even longer than that. And it's based on some very small patient data, people who got actually exposed to anthrax accidentally. Nowadays, we have better antibiotics. We have ICUs, intensive care units, which actually take care of patients.
Wolf, to answer your question directly, some people have better immune systems and are better to fight off infections like anthrax or any other bacteria more so than other people. And that's part of the reason that some people will actually fair better against an infection than others.
BLITZER: And what's the major difference why some people get the inhalation anthrax and others get the cutaneous or the skin form of anthrax?
GUPTA: Right. Wolf, it's the same bacteria, absolutely the same back bacteria. The real difference is in the route of entry.
If someone were to merely touch the bacteria, it would likely be cutaneous if they had an open lesion on their hand. If they actually were able to breath in -- and we're talking usually thousands of spores, 5,000 to 10,000 spores, that would be the inhalational version. But it is the same bacteria causing both, Wolf.
BLITZER: And we know that the flu season, of course, is about to begin. Millions of people are going to start getting flu symptoms, all of them, most of them are going to start wondering, well, is this just the flu or could this be anthrax? What do you say to these people?
GUPTA: Well, it is very confusing, Wolf. And you know, I actually had the same question. I asked the secretary of health that question. I sat down with Secretary Thompson today and asked him that same question. This is part of what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOMMY THOMPSON, HHS SECRETARY: ... you will more than likely, as a good doctor, which you are, you would put that individual on some kind of prophylaxis, probably in this case Cipro. And then if the individual could not handle Cipro, you would probably put him on doxycycline.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: So, Wolf, what the secretary is alluding to there is that you will have millions, if not tens of millions of people this year with the flu, and understandably so, some of those people will be concerned about anthrax. There's a good chance that the number, the amount of antibiotics prescribed for people this year, in particular, will be much higher than other years. After the laboratory results come back confirming that it's not anthrax, which statistically it won't be, then the antibiotics will be stopped. But a lot of people will probably be started on antibiotics until test results come back confirming that.
BLITZER: And I guess it would be more important than ever, Sanjay, for people out there watching this program to get those flu shots earlier rather than later. GUPTA: That's absolutely right, Wolf. But I should, as well, that we're not ready to actually give everyone flu vaccine this year. They've been pretty clear about that. They're trying to step up production of flu vaccine, but they're at about 56 percent of where they want to be. So the elderly, health-care workers and those with weakened immune systems should certainly get the flu vaccine first.
BLITZER: Sanjay Gupta, our CNN medical correspondent, thank you very much.
GUPTA: Thank you.
BLITZER: And as we learn more about bioterrorism, we become keenly aware of what we still don't know. Today on CNN.com, you might find answers to your own questions. This special section shows how investigators treat a biological crime scene.
To navigate, click on the letter that corresponds to points on this graphic. Learn how specialists with protective suits gather clues and what happens to victims after a biological attack. The AOL keyword, of course, is CNN.
Looking now at some other developments in the anti-terror campaign, an anthrax scare kept more than 200 people on board a Northwest Airlines 747 today after it landed in Seattle on a flight from Tokyo. All the passengers were released after a search by authorities turned up nothing.
Canada's solicitor-general says his nation's intelligence agencies helped the United States conclude that another terror attack might be imminent. Lawrence MacAuley says the Canadian Security Intelligence Service shared information with the FBI, which in turn led U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft is issue the terror threat on Monday.
Many Americans are trying to cope with the fear and uncertainty of another possible terror attack. But Israelis who have been living with such threats for decades have learned to remain alert while going about their daily lives.
Joining us now for some perspective on this is Lisa Beyer. She is the senior editor at "TIME" magazine. She's also "TIME" magazine's former Jerusalem bureau chief.
Lisa, thanks for joining us. I know you lived in Israel for several years working for "TIME" magazine.
How do people in Israel balance the constant fear, the threat of terrorism with going about their day-to-day activities?
LISA BEYER, "TIME": Well, I think it becomes somewhat like living in a village next to a river that regularly floods. You, to a certain extent, get used to it.
I think that Israelis have developed a kind of vigilance that is only starting to grow up in this country now. Israelis are always acutely aware of who's near them. They're constantly scanning one another's faces.
In Los Angeles, it's said that people look at you an extra second longer to see if you're a movie star. In Jerusalem, they look at you an extra second longer to see if you're a terrorist.
There's no such thing in Israel as an unattended package. If someone leaves something behind, very quickly the police will be called and they'll seal off the area and they'll send a robot in to blow the thing up. It's usually somebody's lunch.
But really, there aren't really any exceptions to this rule. It's something that happens on a regular basis in the streets of Israel's cities all the time.
There's no such thing in Israel as a place where people congregate, whether it's a mall or a school or a shopping center where there isn't some sort of guard out front who's at least making a cursory check of people's bags as they come in. Generally, people are just much more skeptical and much more suspicious and much more wary all the time.
BLITZER: And I know that Israel obviously is a much, much smaller country than the United States, population is only a tiny fraction of what is here. But what do you believe some of the things that Israelis have been doing almost routinely, what do you think is going to be transposed to the United States as a result of the September 11th terrorist attacks, and of course, the anthrax attacks, which have followed?
BEYER: Well, I think that generally people have to understand that they can only protect themselves so much. And I think Israelis generally understand that as well: that basically you have to count on your government to take larger measures that really count against terrorism. And I think that those measures are principally in the intelligence field.
The Israeli experience has shown that when you fight terror by retaliating against it, you tend to feel better, but it doesn't necessarily stop the terror. In fact, it can have the opposite effect.
The only way really to stop terrorists is to root them out, to know what they're up to ahead of time. And for that, we have to trust our government.
BLITZER: And in terms of the ways Israelis continue to live their lives -- I've been to Israel, obviously, many times -- I know that they're greatly attuned, for example, to the news. They listen to the news all the time on the radio, almost on the hour, something that Americans don't necessarily do, although they're doing it in much bigger numbers right now.
BEYER: That's right. One of my -- my first big impressions of Israel when I first arrived there -- I went to the beach. And I noticed that even people who didn't have watches on knew intuitively when the hour had struck. And they would immediately check in with their radios, listen to the news, and just, you know, make sure that the world was still in one piece, which, of course, hasn't always been the case for Israelis.
In addition to that, people keep in touch with one another via cell phone in Israel more than any other culture I've ever experience. People are constantly reporting back to their loved-ones, to their spouses. I'm here now, but I'm heading to this place and I'll be there for 15 minutes. And I think it's a way of trying to assert a certain amount of control over life, and basically to know where everybody is, so that when you do hear some bad news, you can quickly figure out who might have been at risk.
BLITZER: And the other difference, the major difference obviously between what's going on here in the United States, what's going on in Israel, in Israel, almost everyone has served in the military, and then they're in the Reserves. They're in active duty for at least several weeks during the course of the year. In effect, almost -- most of the citizens, men and women, have had that kind of military experience, which comes into play in their day-to-day activities.
BEYER: That's right. And one of the manifestations of that is that although Americans own as many guns as Israelis do, Israelis carry them much more openly. You'll see -- Israel is probably the only country in the world where can you walk into a bank with a machine gun and no one will think anything of it unless, of course, you happen to look like a Palestinian terrorist.
But there have been instances where terrorists have tried to act or have acted in Israeli cities, and civilians have taken matters into their own hands and used guns against those terrorists. It's a fairly common phenomenon.
But I would like to add one other important distinction between the situation in Israel and the situation in America, which is that Israelis, one of their principal methods of fighting terrorism is a profound level of ethnic profiling. Israelis make a great distinction between Arabs and non-Arabs, and if you're an Arab, you're automatically suspect in almost any situation in Israel. That obviously in our more multicultural, more democratic society isn't something that's really open to us.
BLITZER: Lisa Beyer, thank you very much for joining us. Thanks for your reporting from Jerusalem and now from New York. We appreciate it very much.
BEYER: You're very welcome.
BLITZER: And it leads us to our next subject, racial and ethnic profiling. One congressman here in Washington says the United States ought to be doing precisely more of that. We'll hear from him and an Arab-American community leader later this hour.
Also, military strategy: how it goes hand in hand with diplomacy. I'll speak with retired General Wesley Clark. He'll join us next.
And as Congress debates airport security, a reality check on your checked baggage.
And in Northern Afghanistan, love triumphs over war. We'll show you a wedding.
This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
Carpet bombing, a tactic used in World War II and Vietnam, is now being carried out by U.S. planes in Afghanistan -- that confirmation coming today from the Pentagon.
It happens when bombers, like the B-52, drop heavy bomb loads on a single target or string of targets. The bombs used are so-called dumb bombs, instead of the so-called smart or precision guided bombs.
Here's what the Pentagon spokesman had to say about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REAR ADMIRAL JOHN STUFFLEBEEM, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: Heavy bombers have the capacity to carry large loads of weapons. And often times, if the target presents itself either in an engagement zone or when directed, it is possible to release an entire load of bombs at once, in which case, the real formal term for that is called a long stick, which has also been called carpet bombing.
QUESTION: Are you doing that over Mazar-e-Sharif?
STUFFLEBEEM: That is part of our campaign, it is part of our capability and we do use it and have used it and we will use it when we need to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: For some perspective on what this means, let's speak to our military analyst, retired general Wesley Clark, the former NATO supreme allied commander.
General Clark, what is your take? What does this mean, this carpet bombing that's going along the frontlines?
RETIRED GENERAL WESLEY CLARK, FORMER NATO SUPREME COMMANDER: Well we have used B-52s and B-1s, we are not quite sure which aircraft it was, but dropping chains of 500 and 750 pound bombs really from the beginning of this campaign.
It depends on what the target is. If you've got a target that's precise, like a building or a bunker, and you want it put the ordnance right on it, then you use a precision weapon.
But if you've got an area, a big camp or some entrenchments where you've got people scattered out in too many places to hit each one precisely, then you use an area attack, like this called a long stick or -- you have one bomber or two or three or four. You can keep it up for days if you needed to, flying over this area and laying down the ordnance.
BLITZER: Well, I want to go to our map for a second, General Clark, and show our viewers where presumably this is going on.
If you take a look at the map, and I'll use our Telestrator. Around this area, Mazar-e-Sharif, which is still in the hands of the Taliban, although the Northern Alliance forces were based up here, they are trying to take the strategic area as well as this area north of Kabul, the Bagram Air Base.
These are heavily fortified by the Taliban. Will these kinds of carpet bombing activities in this area -- will that make a significant difference?
CLARK: Well, I think it could make a significant difference if it's appropriately targeted and if it's done repetitively enough, and if the Northern Alliance is then prepared to follow through.
But, any time you drop these bombs, it's very powerful. But it looks more powerful than it really is. What we found in Vietnam, for example, is that occasionally we would send a B-52 in -- we'd call these arc light strikes in those days, same thing. And all the jungle would be blown down and presumably no one could survive underneath it. And yet, when you send infantry through the area, there would be the Viet-Kong somewhere to have survived. They might have bloody eardrums from the pressure and concussion, but they were prepared to fight.
And so there is nothing that's going to really ease significantly the requirement for these Northern Alliance soldiers to move through and take the fight to the enemy. That's the job of the infantrymen, whether Eastern or Northern Alliance or anywhere else. You got to close with and destroy the enemy by fire and maneuver. It's got to be done face to face in a tough fight like this unless the Taliban breaks and runs under the bombing, which they might.
BLITZER: General Clark, I know you just came back from London. I'm interested in knowing what the mood is over there, elsewhere in Europe, based on what you could discern.
You are a former supreme allied commander of the European forces, the NATO forces in Europe. Are they ready to go along with a more intensive military campaign that presumably will even continue through Ramadan, which begins next month?
CLARK: Well, our strongest supporters are the Brits. And the British government is prepared to support whatever we believe is necessary and obviously they are talking with us. And there is probably some shaping of views going on.
But even inside the United Kingdom, I don't think they fully appreciate the impact that a strike like this on the Pentagon and New York City has had on the United States. The only analogy I could give them when I was over there is I'd think of the blitz in London. In 1940, you were under attack by the German Air Force every night. And in the United States, we were debating, "Well, do we have to get involved in another war in Europe?
And we didn't fully appreciate how you felt. And they don't fully appreciate how Americans feel today. So I think they're asking a lot of fundamental questions.
Wolf, one of the things that I saw -- the most questioning of was not the bombing, per se, but what's the big picture? In other words, where does the bombing go? I mean, what's the point of it? Are we going to support the Northern Alliance? Can the Northern Alliance do the job?
And what about Pakistan? And what if Musharraf and Pakistan can't control that border area that has 15 to 20 million Pashtun tribesmen there on both sides of the border? And they are reinforcing the Taliban while we're trying to destroy them. How is that going to work out?
And then, what's the talk about Iraq? There is no evidence linking Iraq to this yet. And so we're ahead of British public opinion and even some of the informed professional opinion in the U.K. on these matters.
BLITZER: General Clark, thanks as always for your expertise. We appreciate it.
And this programming note, the next edition of WOLF BLITZER REPORTS at 7:00 p.m. Eastern, about an hour and a half from now.
Join me and three experts for the "War Room." We'll talk about Saudi Arabia's role in the war on terrorism and also be joined by Adel Al-Jubeir, the chief foreign policy adviser to Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah.
We'll take your e-mail questions. In fact, go to CNN.com. Find the retaliation section on the main page, click on, send questions. We will use them at 7:00 p.m. Eastern, 4:00 Pacific.
And now a rare and exclusive look inside Taliban-controlled Afghanistan. CNN's Nic Robertson is in the southern Taliban stronghold of Kandahar.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The Taliban have taken a group of 26 journalists, including CNN, to see various sites in Kandahar.
The first site we were shown was the ministry of the religious police that had been completely destroyed in downtown Kandahar. Also next to that, two other ministries have been destroyed.
Now the Taliban did want to show us that they had been destroyed. But they also wanted to show us across the road collateral damage. We were taken to what had been a tailor shop where we talked to several people who told us that various friends and relatives had died in the bombing there in that collateral damage. We were also able to travel outside of the city into the surrounding countryside and visit some villages there. We were not allowed to visit military sites.
However, while we have been were touring around, we have been able to see evidence of what the Taliban say they will not meet the United States head on militarily. They say what they will do is to disburse their military hardware around the countryside. And that's what we have seen today: anti-aircraft guns, armored personnel carriers either in the mountains or in trees, but hidden around the countryside.
And this is very much in line with what the Taliban have been saying on how they will deal with the current air bombardment. But (AUDIO GAP) also see downtown one destroyed armored personnel carrier. We are told that was destroyed by American fighter jets a few weeks ago. But, relatively speaking, the city of Kandahar appears to be returning to normal. The stores are open. There are a lot of people out on the streets.
And we are told that, within the last 10 days, people have been returning to the city. People who were initially very afraid of the heavy bombardment in the early days of the air campaign are now coming back to the city. The city is without electricity and without running water, but the stores are open. There is a lot of traffic on the road. And we are told that the city is returning to normal.
Certainly, from our view, from what we have seen before the air campaign and before the September 11 attacks, it is not as busy as Kandahar would have been then. But there still are a lot of people on the streets here.
Nick Robertson, CNN, Kandahar, Afghanistan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And this note: The Taliban did not censor Nic Robertson's report, but he was only allowed to go where they wanted him to go and see what they wanted him to see.
Meanwhile, President Bush has sent a short message to Congress regarding the flagging national economy -- quote -- "Get to work and get something done" -- our look at what Mr. Bush wants from lawmakers coming up.
And the House is considering an airline safety bill, but its passage is far from assured -- that story and much more when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Very tough words from President Bush to Congress today. That's just ahead.
But first back to Joie Chen in Atlanta for a quick check of the latest developments -- Joie. CHEN: Wolf, we do want to bring our viewers up to date on what has been happening today.
Today's death of a New York woman from inhalation anthrax is presenting serious new challenges in America's war against terrorism. The victim, 61-year-old Kathy Nguyen, worked at Manhattan Eye, Ear and Throat Hospital. She is the fourth person in the nation to die of inhalation anthrax since last month's terror attacks. Investigators and health officials say they have no idea how she contracted the disease, but her death is being categorized as a homicide.
Indiana's governor says anthrax spores were found on a piece of postal equipment which was sent to an Indianapolis center for cleaning. Governor Frank O'Bannon says the contaminated device came from a mail-processing center in Washington.
Three more suspected cases of anthrax were reported today in New Jersey and one in Delaware as well: A 51-year-old accountant in New York identified with skin anthrax on Monday has been treated and released from the hospital. She lives near a mail-processing center that handled tainted letters, but she says she does not remember opening any suspicious mail herself.
Officials have recovered about $200 million dollars worried of gold from the World Trade Center site. This gold, belonging to the Bank of Nova Scotia, was reportedly buried beneath the rubble.
The Federal Aviation Administration today imposed a no-fly zone for private planes over the city of Chicago. This move was requested by the mayor, Richard Daley, who said the Sears Tower, now the nation's tallest building, must be protected. The ban applies to pilots who do not file flight plans and who fly according to visual flight rules.
And in Afghanistan, U.S. warplanes today bombed Taliban targets in the southern stronghold city of Kandahar. Pentagon officials also confirmed U.S. planes are dropping heavy loads -- a tactic known as carpet-bombing -- on Taliban frontline positions north of the capital city, Kabul.
Bringing you up to date on the latest developments -- now we go back to Wolf in Washington.
BLITZER: Thanks, Joie.
President Bush fired off a sharp message to Congress today: Get to work and pass an economic stimulus package. He also pointed to the latest figures on the gross domestic product: down 0.4 percent in the third quarter, that after gains in the previous two quarters.
CNN White House correspondent Kelly Wallace is at White House for more on the president's sort of terse message to lawmakers -- Kelly.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, that's a good way to describe it. The president just wrapped up a meeting a short time ago with House and Senate Republican leaders -- no surprise: among the items discussed, the economy.
And, as you noted, Mr. Bush didn't waste any time pointing to those numbers, the biggest decline in economic growth in a decade, to say that it is more urgent than ever for lawmakers to finish up work on an economic stimulus package -- Mr. Bush earlier today, during a speech to business leaders, pretty much drawing a line in the sand, telling members of the House and Senate he wants a bill on his desk that can he sign by the end of November.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: We have got to put aside political differences and act swiftly and strongly on behalf of the American worker and American business person. And so my call to Congress is: Get to work and get something done. The American people expect us to do just that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Now, Mr. Bush has been supporting a package mainly of tax cuts. He would like to see accelerating already approved income tax cuts. He would also like to see business tax breaks to kind of give a spur to investment. And he would also like to provide tax cuts to low- and moderate-income-wage workers, people who didn't receive rebate checks in the mail this summer because they don't pay income tax.
Now, Democrats say they agree with the president's urgency. They want to get him a bill, they say, by the end of November. They say, though, they disagree with the approach. They believe, in any stimulus package, there needs to be more money for unemployment benefits and health care coverage for laid-off workers -- Senator Majority Leader Tom Daschle saying the best way to stimulate the economy is to get money to the people that need it the most.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: We will fight with all that we have got to ensure that unemployment compensation and health benefits are covered in any economic plan that the Congress passes and sends to the president this year. In fact, I think I would go so far as to say we will not pass a bill that does not address those two critical needs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: So, Wolf, of course philosophical differences between Democrats and Republicans -- we will see if both sides can work those differences out by the end of next month -- Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Kelly.
And more on today's economic numbers, of course, at the top of the hour with "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" -- that's at 6:00 p.m. Eastern, 3:00 Pacific.
When we come back, airline security at your check baggage: what you need to know.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. The House is expected to vote tomorrow on an airline security bill. Even though there's agreement on the need for action, the measure is far from being a done deal.
CNN congressional correspondent Kate Snow is covering the story. She joins us now live with the latest -- Kate.
KATE SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, there hasn't been a real nail-biter on Capitol Hill for quite some time, but this is one, for sure. And one aide calling it hand-to-hand combat. It's going to come down to a matter of just a few votes, whether or not one version or the other will pass in terms of airline security.
On the House floor, even as we speak, some heavy-duty arm- twisting going on. House Republican leaders like to call it "persuasive education." They're educating their members, trying to get them to agree with the president's version, the president's bill on airport security.
Now, this morning Transportation Secretary Norm Mineta was part of the lobbying effort as well, encouraging Republicans to back the president and allow flexibility. Republicans saying they want federal oversight of security screeners, but with the option that those screeners be either federal workers or private contractors.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NORM MINETA, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: What we will be doing is having stern conditions that screening companies are going to have to meet. We will do the background investigation. We at the Department of Transportation through the Transportation Security Agency will be doing the training. We will be doing the testing.
What I want to do is to certify the companies, certify the individuals who work for those companies, and if the companies aren't doing their work, decertifying the company.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SNOW: Democrats, on the other hand, support the Senate bill, the bill that passed there by 100 to nothing. That bill would make everyone that does security screening a federal employee at the largest airports in the nation. At the smaller airports, it would allow for local or state law enforcement to be used, but no private contractors.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT (D-MO), MINORITY LEADER: You know, the people that want to contract this out, we ought to be asking them, do you want contract out the Capitol Police function? I don't think they would. Do you want to contract out the U.S. Marines? I don't think they would. Do you want to contract out the FBI and the Customs Service? I don't think they would.
Well, if it's good enough for us, it ought to be good enough for the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SNOW: Some congressional aides say they expect this vote to go forward even if it is going to be close. One Republican aide saying the White House is trying to organize a last-ditch meeting tomorrow morning with some key undecided House Republicans so they can meet with the president for one last push.
Back to you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Kate Snow, on Capitol Hill.
And for more on the issue of airline security, we're joined now by airline safety advocate Victoria Cummock. She lost her husband in the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103. Thanks for joining us, Ms. Cummock.
The biggest problem, as you see it -- you've been studying this for many years -- what's the biggest safety concern facing American flyers right now?
VICTORIA CUMMOCK, AIRLINE SAFETY ADVOCATE: Well, clearly, we can see that the airlines don't know what's being put on board aircraft as well as who's going on board aircraft. And until they can build our confidence back by assuring us that checked bags are being screened by explosive detection technology and matched to passengers as well as all the tons of cargo and all the tons of mail that they put on board with us every day, that in addition to the checkpoint screening as the passengers get on board the aircraft needs to be attended to.
BLITZER: That's done on most international flights. It's done in Europe, around the world. But the complaint is that it would slow down domestic flights. There are so many thousands of domestic flights it's just practically not possible. What do you say about that?
CUMMOCK: Well, actually there is automated technology that the FAA certified over a decade ago that detects explosion devices in checked bags as well as bag-matching, automated bag-matching bar-code technology that we've certified and sold to the European countries for more than a decade.
The -- other countries that take terrorism and aviation security seriously have installed this technology, and have basically seamless and invisible technology that they utilize every day of the week to secure their passengers.
BLITZER: But I've been in Europe on flights when somebody -- there's a bag that shows up on the plane and all the passengers are there. Apparently, there's one bag that doesn't match. Everybody gets off. They have to go on the tarmac and identify their own particular bag. And then of course, once that missing bag, once nobody claims that bag, everybody goes back up, that could delay domestic flights for hours and hours and hours if that were the case here in the United States.
CUMMOCK: Absolutely, and that's why the automated bar-code technology is so essential. They put a bar code on your checked bag as well as on your boarding pass. If at the point of embarkation you did not board the plane and there's a connecting flight and you get off the plane and don't reboard it, your bag comes off the flight.
In addition, there is smart chip technology that the bag will actually chirp based on the bar code not being matched up at boarding. So there's a lot of technology that's been developed and available for more than a decade that can help secure the flying public.
The problem has been that the airlines have either delayed legislation, diluted or totally dispensed with any of the regulations. In 1990, after the bombing of Pan Am 103, the 1990 Aviation Security Improvement Act was passed that required explosive detection technology that was automated and also bag-matching technology as well as federal criminal background checks on everybody that worked at airports.
The airlines didn't want it. They told Congress that they were going to go broke. And even though the law is on the books, it has never been implemented. If these laws had been actually implemented, we could have avoided what happened on September 11th.
BLITZER: The biggest hangup right now, is it strictly speaking money? Is that the problem?
CUMMOCK: The bottom line is that our country is fighting a war against terrorism, and they're putting -- securing the flying public in the hands of an industry that's cost-oriented. I think federalizing the security procedures at airports is really important.
We need professionals taking care of the safety and security of the American people and the flying public. You can't continually put this burden on an industry that's cost-oriented. We have to be able to look at what the airlines are putting on board planes, including the tons of cargo and tons of air mail that are sent every day, as well as what passengers are putting on board their bags.
BLITZER: Victoria Cummock, thanks for joining us, and of course, our condolences for your husband, who was among those who died on Pan Am Flight 103. Thank you very much.
Be sure to join Greta Van Susteren, by the way, for more on airport security and the debate over a federal takeover. That's tonight's "POINT" panel: a pilot from United Airlines and a former member of the Federal Aviation Administration. That's at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, 5:00 Pacific.
Is ethnic profiling something to be avoided or a necessity? During this campaign against terrorism, we'll have a discussion on that issue and more, right after the break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
The campaign against terrorism has renewed the debate over ethnic profiling. Targeting individuals based on their racial or ethnic background has been a hot-button topic for some time. But the issue has taken on a new urgency following the events of September 11.
Joining us now to discuss ethnic profiling are James Zogby. He's the founder and president of the Arab American Institute. Also joining us is Congressman Scott McInnis, Republican of Colorado.
Thanks to both of you.
Congressman McInnis, you be want the government to begin ethnic profiling of passengers, for example, that go on planes. Why?
REP. SCOTT MCINNIS (R), COLORADO: Well, let me tell you that I'm not sure of the word ethnic profiling. But I think the word profiling -- we all use profiling. CNN uses profiling, of course, to take a look at who their viewers are out there. We use it in every activity of our life. And, for God's sake, we ought to use profiling to protect the national security of this country. I mean, not using it right now is simply a diversion to our safety. And our safety has got to come first.
BLITZER: So you are saying, Congressman McInnis, if someone looks like he is an Arab or of Middle Eastern ancestry, be should singled out?
MCINNIS: Well, let me tell you, if you put that in a combination with factors -- for example, these hijackers, we knew that they were all in a certain age group. We knew that they were all male. We knew that they were all Arab. We knew that they were of the Islamic faith. When you put all of those factors together, you are darn right you better pull those people aside and start asking some questions.
Almost every other country in the world does do that. And, frankly, that's why Israel, for example, hasn't had a hijacking on one of their aircraft.
BLITZER: Jim Zogby, what do you say?
JAMES ZOGBY, ARAB AMERICAN INSTITUTE: Congressman, that's bizarre and it's actually not very American. If you use that kind of system, what you end with, as a colleague of yours, Darrell Issa, congressman from California, a Republican Congressman, he was profiled and kept off an Air France plane for precisely that reason.
(CROSSTALK)
ZOGBY: We could have profiled him, but the fact is, is that the mosquitoes that buzz don't bite. It's the ones that don't buzz do. It's bad law enforcement to simply use an ethnic-based profile. You can create... (CROSSTALK)
ZOGBY: Congressman, let me finish.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: One at a time, Congressman.
ZOGBY: Because I fly and you fly, and I'm as concerned with air safety as you are. But what I don't want to see are women who are covered and men who have beards and people who are of Arab descent simply singled out for that reason. It is bad law enforcement. It is against the law to do that.
(CROSSTALK)
ZOGBY: And if you do -- if you do use that system, you will probably let the guys who would commit crimes go and not catch them.
MCINNIS: Wait a second. Take a look -- in fact, your family -- as you know, in your family, you use profiling in the polling business. We use profiling -- for example, we go in on teenage pregnancy -- we go in and profile teenage pregnancy to try and figure out how we can resolve that problem.
We use profiling in marketing. We use profiling for high-risk drivers. We need to use profiling for the security of this country. What you are trying to do is be so politically correct that we are actually gun-shy
(CROSSTALK)
ZOGBY: ... come up with a very precise law enforcement technique that will develop a profile.
MCINNIS: Well, let me ask you this.
ZOGBY: Can I -- if you would let me finish, I would tell you.
You can develop a profile in which ethnicity is but a factor that may be an effective form of law enforcement.
MCINNIS: That is exactly what I'm saying.
ZOGBY: But the way we're using it right now, it's wrong.
MCINNIS: That's not what we're using it right now.
ZOGBY: When you take the Republican congressman and don't let him get on plane
(CROSSTALK)
MCINNIS: Get off the partisan. This is not a Republican- Democrat issue, Mr. Zogby. And you know that.
(CROSSTALK)
MCINNIS: Wait a second. Let's go back to your initial issue. I agree with you that racial profiling should be more
(CROSSTALK)
ZOGBY: Listen, when the pilot comes back and says, "I'm not flying with Mohammed on the plane..."
BLITZER: One at a time, Congressman, please.
ZOGBY: And he says, "I'm not flying with Mohammed on the plane" and makes the guy get off the plane even though he has passed all the security clearance, he simply doesn't want a guy named Mohammed on the plane. Or when you have three people taken off and denied the right to fly because the pilot said he was uncomfortable because they were too dark, and he wasn't sure who they were, and they turn out to be Indians, but it doesn't matter. If you go that route, you end up going the route of racism. It is wrong and it simply won't work. It's bad law enforcement.
(CROSSTALK)
MCINNIS: That's right, but what you have presented is a very narrow focus.
And on those three specific cases you just mentioned, I agree with you.
ZOGBY: Well, there you go.
MCINNIS: But you have got to agree with me that when we have people of Arab descent, for example, who buy a one-way ticket, who have no baggage that get onto an airplane, and they're traveling some distance, and they fall within a certain age range, and they belong to a certain radical part of a religion, those people ought to be pulled aside because of that profile. And that's profiling.
ZOGBY: But the fact is, is that we didn't know they belonged to a radical part of the religion.
MCINNIS: I know. But, you know, we can determine at our airports
(CROSSTALK)
MCINNIS: Wait a second. You asked me to let me finish.
ZOGBY: Yes. I will let you finish. I will.
MCINNIS: OK. I'm telling you that a profile utilizing a number of different elements -- just like we do before we issue an insurance policy to a teenage driver. We know that a teenager driver has a much higher likelihood of speeding, much higher likelihood of driving. And, therefore, we charge him more for insurance. Now, you may call that discrimination. You may call that what is wrong with America. I'm telling you it is what is needed in America for the national defense of this country.
ZOGBY: If it's -- now, I would like to finish. Let me just go on for a moment. If it's ethnic based and solely ethnic based -- which is what subjective profiling has been doing over the last several years...
(CROSSTALK)
ZOGBY: Let me make my point, sir.
MCINNIS: Well, you are misleading the public out there.
ZOGBY: I am not misleading the public.
MCINNIS: Yes, you are.
ZOGBY: I am dealing with this issue every single day because I'm getting the victims who are calling me. And I have been dealing with this issue for 10 years.
(CROSSTALK)
ZOGBY: A 69-year-old Syrian woman gets her luggage strewn all over on the floor because she was singled out because she had a head scarf on. It is wrong.
MCINNIS: Mr. Zogby
(CROSSTALK)
ZOGBY: And let me tell you something, Congressman. If you want to stop this problem, you would to what Victoria Cummock just said in the segment before this. If we have the plane secured, if the pilot's door is bolted, if we do the proper checks on luggage, if we do all the things that were recommended a decade ago to make the plane secure and the airport secure, it doesn't matter who is on the plane. Nothing can happen.
(CROSSTALK)
ZOGBY: In fact, if we had use the computerized -- the CAPS system, it was called -- of profiling fact, the fact that these men did buy one-way, first-class tickets with cash the day before, they should have been profiled. It had nothing do with their religion. It had nothing to do with their ethnicity or their age group. They should have been stopped. But they weren't because the system broke down. If you do the system the way it was intended to be done, without violating constitutional rights, the system will work.
(CROSSTALK)
ZOGBY: We haven't done it right. MCINNIS: The system you're talking about, sure, who would object to that system? It sounds like a great system. But for to you say that we have a right to look at the baggage, we have a right to look at what has gone on to the airplane, but we have no right to question the people on the airplane, you are crazy.
We have got to protect the people of this country. You have taken political correctness to an extreme end of the spectrum. I'm in the middle there. And I'm saying we need it for national security.
BLITZER: Congressman McInnis, Jim Zogby, unfortunately, we are all out of time. If you want to continue this debate, we can continue it tomorrow. We will talk about it later -- a good discussion. Thanks to both of you for joining us.
We will be right back with a final word.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: As grim as events have been in Afghanistan, there are signs of life going on during the war and the suffering. Indeed, there's a wedding that took place today in Afghanistan, a wedding of a 22-year-old woman and a 22-year-old man -- the groom decorated and pampered. The kids, in a time-honored ritual, scramble for coins scattered around them. Family and friends come to greet them. Then come the gifts: a new watch; a red henna to dye the hands and fingers of the new couple. It looks like a lovely experience in the midst of a war.
I'll be back in one hour with more coverage, including an interview with Adel Al-Jubeir, the chief foreign policy adviser to Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah. Until then, thanks very much for watching.
I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. CNN's coverage of "America's New War" continue with LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE, which begins right now.
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