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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
America's New War: Governor Gray Davis Defends Decision to Warn of Terrorist Threats
Aired November 02, 2001 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Today on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: "America Strikes Back." Tighter security at major bridges in the West. How real is the threat? Was it right to sound the alarm?
Terrorism's toll on the nation's economy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The attacks of September the 11th have deeply affected the lives of hundreds of thousands of people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: A huge jump in unemployment. Does the president have an answer?
They have worked around the clock since September 11th, and New York firefighters aren't ready to let up now. We'll tell you why.
Most heavy bombing in Afghanistan, and we'll have an exclusive look at life in a Taliban stronghold, as "America Strikes Back."
Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting from Washington. America hasn't seen a surge in unemployment like this in more than 20 years. Today the alarm bells are ringing, but there is serious disagreement over a solution. In a moment, the president's prescription.
But first let's go to Joie Chen in Atlanta for a quick check of the latest developments -- Joie.
JOIE CHEN, CNN ANCHOR: That's right, Wolf. The details on that strong evidence of the impact of September's terrorist on the nation's economy. The unemployment rate soared to 5.4 percent in October. That is the biggest one-month jump in more than 21 years. More than 400,000 jobs were cut. President Bush says Congress should extend unemployment benefits.
Security is tight at San Francisco's famed Golden Gate and Bay Bridges today. This, after officials warn that major suspension bridges in several Western states could be attacked by terrorists. National Guard troops took up positions at some of the bridges earlier today, and traffic has been a little lighter than usual. Hundreds of angry New York firefighters protested today at the site of the World Trade Center. They are upset over the city's decision to scale back the number of firefighters involved in recovery operations there. At one point, several firefighters clashed with police. Five police officers were injured, and a dozen firefighters were arrested.
New York health officials say a third employee at the "New York Post" has the skin form of anthrax now. The newspaper says the editorial page editor is expected to fully recover. Meantime, there are still no leads in the case of this woman, the New York city woman who died of inhalation anthrax. Officials say they still have no idea how Kathy Nguyen contracted the disease.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld on his way to Russia and four Asian nations, for talks on war against terrorism. First stop is Moscow, where Rumsfeld will meet his Russian counterpart. From there, he's off to Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Pakistan and India. All five countries are supporting the U.S.-led war against the Taliban.
And there is no let-up in U.S. air strikes in Afghanistan. B-52 bombers and other war planes pound the Taliban front line positions north of the capital city, Kabul. The Pentagon spokesman says the bombing is putting severe stress on the Taliban. The Pentagon also says that freezing rain is blocking attempts to put more U.S. special forces in Afghanistan.
That brings you up to the minute. Now we go back to Wolf in Washington.
BLITZER: Thanks, Joie.
Let's go out to Burbank, California, where California's Governor Gray Davis is speaking about the latest terrorist threats facing that state. Let's listen.
GOV. GRAY DAVIS (D), CALIFORNIA: I have said repeatedly that safety is job one in California since September 11th, and it is. I'm proud of the efforts that the highway patrol and various other state and local agencies have made to keep us safe. I think it's important to have an economic summit, for the reasons we had it -- to inventory all of the good ideas from economic leaders as to how we can restore economy.
And I have no apologies for the decision I made yesterday. I acted on three written warnings from three federal offices, indicating that there was a potential threat to suspension bridges on the West Coast. We get briefings almost every day, but this one was time specific and location specific. And I felt it was appropriate it tell people what I was doing to prepare for that threat, and to fully inform them.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
DAVIS: Economic question? QUESTION: I realize you're not getting into a lot of specifics here, but do you have any kind of -- maximum ballpark, some sort, as to how much you are willing to spend or willing to try to look to spend, as you try and forge this consensus?
DAVIS: You know, I would like to be able to give you specific numbers, and in time I will. This is such a moving ball. All we have are September economic revenues at the state level. We will have October revenues in about six to seven days, and we will have a better sense of the size of the shortfall that the state is facing in the current year, and the potential shortfall in the budget year.
So until I know -- have a better sense of the dimensions of the economic challenges from the state's perspective, it is very hard for me to give you figures. But I do believe we should have some kind of incentive program. We definitely should incent tourism. I want to get the hospitality industry back up and running.
There have been too many lost jobs from hard-working, relatively low wage workers, people out of work now. There's every reason why Californians should take a trip over Thanksgiving or over the Christmas holidays. We need to find a campaign that urges them to do that, and makes people feel good about it.
I don't want to overstate this, but in World War II, the people in London were bombed every night for about 15 months. Every morning they got up and went to work, even though every night there was some people who were lost to the bombing efforts. So happily, we're not facing a situation anywhere near as dire as that. But it shows you that other people in other contexts have risen up to more challenging times, and certainly we can do it as well.
QUESTION: Is there any reason why you're not considering, apparently, any kind of reduction in state personal income taxes? To put more money...
BLITZER: Governor Gray Davis answering questions about economic issues, but also offering no apology whatsoever for his declaration yesterday, for his announcement that the main bridges, the suspension bridges in California, elsewhere on the West Coast, faced an imminent potential terrorist threat between November 2, today, and November 7th.
The governor saying that he received three written warnings from federal law enforcement agencies notifying him of that imminent threat. He felt it was appropriate to in turn notify the residents of California. It's all a sign of the times in America's war on terrorism.
There's now beefed-up security at major bridges, not only in California but in several western states. California's governor, of course, had issued that warning of a possible terrorist threat -- a warning that federal officials later played down to some degree.
CNN's Brian Cabell joins us now, at San Francisco's Golden Gate Bridge, with the mood out there -- Brian. BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good afternoon, Wolf. Take a look at it. It's a gorgeous day here in San Francisco, and a peaceful day, an uneventful day. Traffic counts this morning on the Golden Gate Bridge, very, very normal. Down slightly, but very normal for a Friday morning. Same thing on the Bay Bridge, which goes over to Oakland.
Very normal, down slightly, but nothing at all unusual. It looks a little bit unusual, though, because the National Guard is out here on both sides of the bridge. They are checking cars. They're not stopping cars, we should tell you that. But they are looking for anything suspicious.
Same thing with the California Highway Patrol. The helicopters are up and the cars are down. They're a little more visible than usual. Coast Guard cutters are out here, a little more visible than usual. Also, Coast Guard helicopters.
But again, nothing overwhelming by any means. Just a little more visibility that we would normally expect. We talked to some pedestrians, we talked to motorists. None of them seemed terribly concerned, and most clearly were not scared away by the threats.
All in all, a very normal day. Now let's go down to Los Angeles and check with Jen Rogers.
JEN ROGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, there, Brian. That is the same thing we are hearing here as well -- a very normal day. That being said, security is heightened here at the Vincent Thomas Bridge. That is in the port of Los Angeles, where we are.
It's a little bit of a different story, here, because this isn't really a commuter bridge like you have up in the Bay Area. This services the port here, which is the busiest in the nation. A California Highway Patrol telling us about 70 percent of the traffic on a daily basis is commercial. Those big rigs, those trucks that are servicing the business here in the port.
It is a huge interagency effort right now under way. On this heightened security we have the Coast Guard, we have the port police, the LAPD, the INS, the national guard, of course. Even the fish and wildlife service is involved. Again, a huge interagency effort.
And every agency we talked to said that except for the fact they are on heightened alert, that they have stepped up their efforts on the ground, in the air, in the sea, that everything today was normal. Traffic patterns were normal and there was nothing out of the ordinary -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks, Jen Rogers, for that. I want to point out that officials in Washington state are also taking extra security steps. Washington's largest suspension bridge is the Tacoma Narrows Bridge. Seattle's police chief says more police officers will be deployed to keep watch on the state's bridges. Seattle, by the way, does not have any suspension bridges. Oregon's governor, meanwhile, is not taking any chances either. He's ordered stepped-up police patrols of the state's most heavily traveled bridges, mainly those in downtown Portland. However, he says he's seen no information to suggest a specific threat to Oregon.
The New York City Marathon begins Sunday on the nation's longest suspension bridge. Find out about security there, and one former U.S. Army colonel's concern about it, later on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
New Labor Department figures out today on nation's unemployment rate are sobering, if not staggering. They clearly show that damage from the September terrorist attacks goes far beyond the airline and travel industries. CNN's Brooks Jackson reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROOKS JACKSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was the first unemployment report to reflect what's happened since September 11th, and it showed the biggest one-month jump in unemployment in 21 years, up 5/10 of 1 percent, to 5.4 percent in October. A loss of 415,000 jobs, far exceeding the 300,000 loss expected by most economists.
As expected, there was a heavy toll in the airline industry. Forty-two thousand jobs, gone. Hotels were hit even harder as travelers stayed home. Forty-six thousand jobs lost. In restaurants and bars, or eating and drinking places, as the Labor Department calls them, another 42,000 jobs lost.
And thousands more jobs lost in auto rental agencies and travel agencies. But bad as the losses were in the travel industry, nearly 2/3 of the job losses were elsewhere. Factory employment, which had been showing signs of recovery, instead suffered its 15th consecutive month of job losses, a whopping 142,000.
And these numbers don't reflect the big layoffs announced, but not yet executed, by aircraft maker Boeing. And temporary workers, first to be fired in a downturn, lost another 107,000 jobs. Construction had been a bright spot, but housing sales are finally slipping. Thirty-thousand construction jobs, gone.
Another bright spot turned sour, oil and gas drilling. Falling natural gas prices mean less drilling. Four-thousand jobs lost last month. And Wall Street of course lost thousands of jobs, including those held by many who died.
And the ripple effects hit thousands who are working. The number of people who wanted full-time work, but were forced to take part-time work instead, rose by 274,000 in October. President Bush said the job loss was regrettable, and urged the Senate to pass his proposed tax cuts to stimulate a recovery.
BUSH: I believe we have the ingredients of a good package out of the House. I urge the Senate to work quickly to pass a bill.
JACKSON: But Senate Democrats said what's needed is a much bigger increase than what Bush is proposing in unemployment benefits for those who are out of work.
SEN. BYRON DORGAN (D), NORTH DAKOTA: They, too, are victims of a weak economy, and victims of an attack by terrorists on this country.
JACKSON (on camera): And the worst is not over. Economists say another one million to two million Americans could be thrown out of work in months to come. Some say the unemployment rate could rise to well over 6 percent sometime next year.
Brooks Jackson, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: President Bush expressed concern over the new jobless report and he urged the Senate to quickly pass his economic stimulus package. CNN White House correspondent Major Garrett is over at the White House. He has more on the president's reaction -- Major.
MAJOR GARRETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, President Bush brought to a close a very busy day here at the White House, departing from the south lawn just about an hour and a half ago for a weekend at Camp David.
But before doing that, he met this morning to talk about these grim unemployment numbers with his Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill and his Labor Secretary Elaine Chao. And he took the opportunity to make sure Americans knew he was in no way sugar-coating this bad news.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: We're discussing the new unemployment numbers, and it's not good news for America. The attacks of September 11th have deeply affected the lives of hundreds of thousands of people. Not only has it shadowed the lives of those who have lost life, the attacks have threatened the livelihoods of American workers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GARRETT: Wolf, the president's top economic advisers believe this stimulus package, heavy in tax cut, is exactly what the economy needs right now. Larry Lindsay, the president's top economic adviser told me a few moments ago what the Democrats are pushing is defeatism, talking about extending unemployment benefits, putting out federal money to support health care insurance for people who won't regain their jobs for a long time.
What he says is people need jobs, not unemployment checks, and that's what he said the president's stimulus plan will accomplish -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Major, thank you very much.
And in these uncertain times, you might be wondering what steps to take if you think you're about to lose your job, or if that has already happened. Joining us now from New York with advice, Lauren Young, "Smart Money" magazine. Lauren, thanks for joining us. And I know that you have some specific advice for people who may already have lost their job, need some money. For example, you say one of the things you should be doing right away is go to a relative. That's not always easy, is it?
LAUREN YOUNG, "SMART MONEY": No. But actually, they're much better people to owe money to. You know, banks, they're not always so flexible sometimes, when have you to pay them back. And a relative could lend you money and maybe give you some more favorable terms.
BLITZER: Another suggestion you have is to check out your home equity line of credit.
YOUNG: Home equity lines of credit are a great way to have a little money to tap. Basically you go to a bank or whoever you got your mortgage from, try and set up something. And the interest rate is about 6 percent,
BLITZER: And if it's home equity, that interest is deductible as well. You also say people should borrow from their 401k.
YOUNG: Well, this is one of those last worse case scenarios. It's not a great idea to borrow from your 401k, but sometimes you don't have any other choice. And the good thing about borrowing from your 401k is that you do have time to pay it back and hopefully make up for some of the gains when you take the money out of the market.
BLITZER: All right, now, what if you do have a job but you're worried down the road. You want to start saving some money. I know you also have some specific recommendations on this front. One of them is to start -- instead of buying books, go to the library to get books.
YOUNG: You know, hardback books are about $25, and let's say you read two books a month. You know, that's $600 a year. Well, most libraries will get new books in for free, and maybe you pay $1 to reserve the new book, but that is actually a great way to save some money. It all adds up in the end.
BLITZER: And you have another practical piece of advice. Renting movies versus going to the movies.
YOUNG: Well, it's not always so much fun to stay at home and rent movies, but believe me, it's certainly a lot cheaper. You know, ticket prices right now in major metropolitan areas are averaging about $8 a piece. So a movie rental, on the other hand, is about $3. So you really -- if you're going to the movies twice a month, that's a significant -- a lot of money. And as you know, new releases are coming out pretty quickly, so you can see those blockbusters in your own home.
BLITZER: And you have a recommendation on how to save money when you want to eat lunch as well, don't you?
YOUNG: Well, you know that Americans spend about 5 percent of their income on food. It's a huge amount of money -- and that's eating out. That's not just food that you're eating at home. That's money that is spent eating out of the house.
Lunch is expensive. You're spending $5 a day. That's $1,200 a year. Make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, make a tuna fish sandwich, you know, and save some money.
BLITZER: Lauren, when we hear all these experts, these economists tell us what's going to happen to the economy in the immediate period ahead, should we believe them?
YOUNG: Wolf, as you know, economists were predicting a much lower number for the nonfarm payroll cuts. Actually, it was significantly lower than what we actually saw. Economists are very confused. Listen, before September 11th, they did not see the market going down, down, down. So you know, a lot of them are very smart people, but we have so much conflicting data out there. It's very hard to get a good read on what is happening with the economy.
BLITZER: Lauren Young of "Smart Money," offering us some smart advice. Thanks for joining us. And I'll start bringing my lunch. I appreciate it.
You can examine the country's most recent unemployment report. Go to money.cnn.com. Find the story on unemployment and look under the related links section for even more information.
A turf war near ground zero. Find out what's behind the tussle between New York's police and firefighters. We'll have a live report from New York City next.
And later, the foaming of a Senate building. See how they'll try to rid the Senate offices of anthrax spores. You haven't seen it yet. You'll see it today.
And inside Afghanistan, our Nic Robertson, free from the Taliban's media tour, tells you what he sees, later on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. New York City officials say it is a matter of safety, and that's why they are scaling back recovery operations at the World Trade Center site. But firefighters say it's keeping them from doing their job, a message they delivered loud and clear a few hours ago.
CNN's Michael Okwu is near ground zero and joins us now live with details -- Michael.
MICHAEL OKWU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, for weeks this has been a city where everyone has appeared to work in concert, particularly firefighters. But not today. Hundreds of firefighters staged what they initially called a peaceful protest against the mayor's decision to deploy only 25 firefighters in the recovery efforts at ground zero. That's down from 300 three weeks ago, and 2,000 in days immediately following the attacks. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's down to 24 guys a day. You have the potential to open up a stairwell and have more dead firemen down there than alive. I mean, you have 24 firemen assigned down there a day. They're assigned down there. There is no overtime. Maybe that's what it's all about, you know. Maybe it's about money.
But we want it get our guys out with dignity. We want to be able to carry our guys out, and 24 of our guys down there a day is not enough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OKWU: Now, emotions ran high today. Firefighters stormed passed a police barricade. Twelve were arrested, including one fire marshal, a captain and a lieutenant. Five police officers were injured.
Now, Mayor Giuliani called the conduct unacceptable, and he said the scale-back is being done for safety reasons. He mentioned there have been quite a few near misses in the recent weeks. For example, that a plaza collapsed shortly after a recovery team had been standing on it, and that one worker was almost hit by a crane, until he was saved by another coworker. This is what Mayor Giuliani had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR RUDY GIULIANI (R), NEW YORK: We were given very strong advice several weeks ago that this site was a disaster waiting to happen, that we on several occasions came very close to losing the lives of firefighters or construction workers. I was given that advice, and I went there to look at it myself. And the people who were giving us that advice are absolutely right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OKWU: Now, you are looking at live pictures of ground zero. Weeks after September 11th, it continues to smolder and it is no less haunting today than it was on September 12th. The mayor also said that there has been a lot of misinformation about his decision. City officials who attended the press conference with him today emphasize the point that when a firefighter's body is recovered, that other firefighters will be allowed to reenter the site where they can pay their respects to the body and help remove it from the site -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much. Michael Okwu, in New York City.
The threat to bridges in the West does not extend elsewhere, but security concerns are nevertheless on the minds of those involved in the New York City Marathon this Sunday. CNN's Maria Hinojosa explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's the bridges that have many New Yorkers worried. People like Raul Mojica. RAUL MOJICA, NY MARATHON PARTICIPANT: I'm a little concerned, like crossing over the bridge, like they probably might do something.
HINOJOSA: Because Raul is one of 30,000 runners gearing up for Sunday's New York City Marathon. A lot of things will be the same this year, but some things will be different.
ALLEN STEINFELD, CEO, ROAD RUNNERS CLUB: Get there early. Don't bring any friends or family. Only runners are going to be allowed to go. Anything you bring with you will have to be in a clear plastic bag, and be expected to be searched as you board the busses.
HINOJOSA: It's already started. Days ahead of the 26-mile race, runners were having their I.D.s checked and rechecked. And on Sunday runners will have computer chips on their shoes an in their number tags. If they don't match, runners won't be able to run.
And when they run...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have had people along the way who are do- gooders, in some areas they're handing out water, bananas and oranges. And in the past it's not been a concern. It's a good thing to do.
HINOJOSA: But this year, thirsty runners are being told not to accept anything from spectators. Along the route, more changes. Bridges that allowed traffic during the marathon will be for runners only. And expect more police, many undercover.
But did the mayor ever think of canceling the marathon?
GIULIANI: No, no, I couldn't possibly cancel it. I finished first in this event seven out of the last eight years.
(LAUGHTER)
HINOJOSA: And for the runners, mixed emotions.
ANNA BURKE, NY MARATHON PARTICIPANT: I'm very nervous, yeah. But I think that you can't change what you do day to day. And I think this is something I've always wanted to do. And I'm just going to go out there and run, hope for the best, and run the best race that I can.
HINOJOSA: Crossing the finish line in a year when running your personal best in New York City's marathon means that much more.
Maria Hinojosa, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Security understandably will be tight at the Verrazano Bridge on Sunday, but it's also very tight at several suspension bridges out on the West coast. The California Governor Gray Davis, only moments ago, explained specifically why he went public with that terrorist threat yesterday, a threat that he says is credible and real. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVIS: The threat came in writing from three separate federal sources. It was time specific and it was location specific. It was suspension bridges on the West Coast, from November 2nd to November 7th, during rush hour traffic.
So I felt the need to increase security on our major bridges, and to alert the people of this possibility.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Governor Davis says the threat began today, November 2nd, until November 7th. Security presumably will continue to be tight on all those bridges for the foreseeable future.
When we come back, we'll update today's other major developments. Nic Robertson gives us the view from Kandahar, right in Afghanistan. Find out the strategy behind this kind of bombing in Afghanistan when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
Inside Afghanistan, a CNN correspondent looks at what no other Western journalist is seeing. We'll have an exclusive report. We'll hear from him in just a moment.
First, let's go back to Joie Chen in Atlanta with a quick check of the latest developments -- Joie.
CHEN: All right, Wolf, thanks very much.
I want to give you the latest developments that we are getting in this hour. Security is tight at some of the nation's most famous bridges, and in several Western states there have been warnings they could be attacked by terrorists.
There's growing concern over another threat as a third "New York Post" employee is diagnosed with skin anthrax. The newspaper says the editorial page editor is expected to fully recover. Meantime, officials say they still have no idea how Kathy Nguyen contracted the disease. She died earlier this week.
There's strong evidence today of the impact of September's terror attacks on the nation's economy. The unemployment rate soared to 5.4 percent in October. That's the biggest one-month jump in more than 21 years.
Russia and Britain say they will work together to truck thousands of tons of food across Afghanistan's rugged northern frontier. A joint convoy should start rolling within the next two weeks.
And Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is on his way to Russia now for talks in the war against terrorism. And there he goes, to Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Pakistan and India. All five countries are supporting the U.S.-led efforts against the Taliban.
That's up to the minute. Now, let's go back to Wolf in Washington.
BLITZER: Thanks, Joie.
High over Afghanistan, U.S. bombers again pound Taliban forces north of Kabul. Further south, it's been relatively quiet, with signs that some folks at least are trying to get back to the business of living.
CNN's Nic Robertson is in the Taliban stronghold of Kandahar.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There was a little air activity over Kandahar today. We could see a few jets flying overhead, but there were no bombs dropped and it's been very quiet here in the last few days.
Today, we were able to go downtown without Taliban officials and talk to people on the streets. We went into the market to gauge people's opinion about how they felt about the situation.
They said that they were coming out and going into the stores, which do have food in them, because they felt safer, because the intensity of the bombing is somewhat reduced, they said, compared to the first two weeks of the air campaign.
Now interestingly, in the shops, food prices are going up, but the local currency here, the Afghani, has also increased in value. So people are telling us effectively there is no increase in food prices for them.
We were also able to visit a hospital today, where doctors showed us several civilian casualties. Two of the casualties, they said, had been caught in a bomb blast that they said had taken place at a hydroelectric power-generating facility about half a day's drive away from Kandahar.
Doctors told us that a lot of patients come in from the outlying areas, but he also said that many patients discharge themselves quickly because they're afraid of being in the hospital. They feel that the hospital is an unsafe location to be.
Indeed, we were able to travel around without Taliban officials, but in one area of the hospital today, armed Taliban prevented us from getting access to that area of the hospital.
Nic Robertson, CNN, Kandahar, Afghanistan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Now, let's take a look at some other international news. Pakistan's science minister says one of four letters suspected of containing anthrax has tested positive. He also says two people handled those letters, but neither has exhibited any symptoms. The letters were sent to a national newspaper, a computer company and a bank in Karachi.
Far from Afghanistan, Australia has become a target of threats from the Taliban. Australia has committed troops, planes and ships to the U.S.-led effort against terrorism. The Taliban in return said Australia would be a target of their holy war.
In Spain, Yasser Arafat met today with the Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres. They had lunch with the Egyptian president and the Spanish prime minister before the start of an economic forum. The Middle East will be a main topic of the conference.
Up next, the two-prong strategy behind this kind of bombing in Afghanistan. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Back to the military front right now, where every day we talk about the air strikes in Afghanistan. Today, you may have heard the term "carpet bombing." To tell us more about that, once again, let's turn it over to Joie Chen in Atlanta -- Joie.
CHEN: Wolf, good afternoon again. Seeing more evidence and getting more confirmation from the Pentagon. Tactics of brute force, definite attention-getters for any forces on the ground.
Take a look. This is a view that generated a lot of interest among the Pentagon reporters. What a lot of people have called carpet bombing, although the Defense Department bristles at that term. They say it is a rather outdated notion.
But they do acknowledge use of what they call "long stick bombing," in which warplanes, like the B-52s in this illustration, drop unguided munitions, the so-called "dumb bombs," over a wide swathe. Just one B-52 can carry 60,000 pounds of bombs.
Now, this is a tactic that was extensively used in Desert Storm. It was meant to destroy targets and the morale of Iraqi troops.
And again, the Pentagon does acknowledge now using this tactic in Afghanistan.
Another piece of video we saw this week raised a lot of questions. What looked like an explosion with a mushroom cloud -- the flames, we are told, reached some thousand feet, maybe more than that. What was it?
Well, some military experts we have spoken to say that it might have been something like a guided bomb hitting an ammunition dump, producing a big explosion, or what is known as a "daisy cutter," the (UNINTELLIGIBLE), officially the BLU-82: 15,000 pounds. A giant, giant can, the size of a single Lincoln Navigator, but it weighs as much as three Navigators.
The only thing with more explosive power is a nuclear blast. So how does this thing work? Well, it is dropped from a MC-130. This is the only aircraft big enough to carry this huge bomb.
The fall of this big, huge bomb is slowed by something like a giant parachute. You see it pulling away from the MC-130, and as it gets closer to the ground it releases a slurry of something similar to Napalm. You see all the droplets scattered around in here. These are very, very flammable. When it ignites, this becomes really liquid fuel. The explosion is tremendous, as you see there. It will obliterate anything in more than 70 yards.
The width of the radius is roughly the better part of a whole football field, and it has a devastating shockwave. Somebody eight football fields away will -- can suffer crushed organs, even ruptured lungs.
You can imagine this is not just a physically enormous impact, but it would have tremendous psychological impact on anyone who had seen it, even from a great distance, Wolf.
BLITZER: I'm quite familiar with it, Joie. That Daisy Cutter, it's an incredible weapon.
Tell our viewers how it was used in the past. Give us some history about Vietnam and the Persian Gulf War.
CHEN: Yeah. Well, it certainly does have a good deal of history, Wolf. It was used in Vietnam, but mostly at that time to clear areas for helicopters to land. Then in Desert Storm, emphasizing its maximum psychological impact. Again, this huge, enormous thing: the size of three Lincoln Navigators, the weight of three Lincoln Navigators.
A short time after the Daisy Cutters stunned forces on the ground in Iraq, they'd follow up with leaflets, and these leaflets essentially said, hey, the next one is going to come around, say, tomorrow afternoon. You better give up now. And that was the message they wanted to get out there, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Joie. I give up right now. No more -- thanks for -- thanks for all that information.
And in the next edition of WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, coming up at 7:00 p.m. Eastern, join me and three experts in "The War Room." Former National Security Adviser Brent Scowcroft will be among those joining me to try to explain what's going on in this military campaign against targets in Afghanistan.
We'll also be taking your e-mail questions. Just go to our Web site, cnn.com/wolf. Click on "send questions." We'll use them at 7:00 p.m. Eastern, 4:00 Pacific. That's about an hour and 20 minutes from now.
And are you worried about anthrax in your building? See how they're going to get rid of it, or at least try to get rid of it, on Capitol Hill, when we come back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
More anxiety over anthrax as more cases are reported, and not only here in the United States. Health officials say a third employee of "The New York Post" is being treated for skin anthrax. In Pakistan and Lithuania, traces of anthrax were found in at least one letter and in a mail bag. Tracking down the source, though, has proven elusive.
The mystery grew this week with the death of Kathy Nguyen, a hospital worker, who had no apparent connection with any of the other infections or contaminated areas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: We are currently looking closely at the recent fatality in New York of Ms. Nguyen to see what that might tell us. But it's still too early to draw any conclusions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Until they do, nerves will remain very much on edge. Our medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, is in Atlanta to tell us how all of us can cope. Elizabeth, give us the information.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Wolf, I think a lot of people are asking themselves right now, especially with this Kathy Nguyen case, gee, if I have flu-like symptoms, what do I do? Should I be nervous, because flu-like symptoms -- for example, fever, body aches, a profound feeling of feeling profoundly awful -- can be signs of the flu? But they could also be signs of early anthrax infection.
So let me take you through sort of what doctors are saying about what to do if you're feeling nervous.
It's kind of like real estate: location, location, location. If you work in a place that is considered high risk -- for example, postal workers would be considered high risk; people who work in any of the media outlets where anthrax was found would be considered high risk -- then you really need to attend to that. You really need to go see your doctor. And they would take you -- they would be much more sort of serious about it, much more suspicious, I should say, if you worked at one of those places.
Now, it if you don't, it gets a little bit tricky, because you have a teeny-tiny chance of being infected with anthrax if you don't work in one of those places. And so it's sort of up to a doctor's own judgment, because there is no good test for anthrax infection.
I'm going to say that again, because I think sometimes people don't understand that. There is no good test for anthrax infection.
This is not like the strep -- a strep throat, where they can just swab your throat and give you an answer. There is no way to get a quick and easy answer.
So, for example, I talked to one doctor who practices far away from New York, New Jersey, Washington, those areas where anthrax has turned up. And he said, you know what: If I get someone coming in who has these symptoms, is very achy and has a fever and feels horrible, I'm going to give them antibiotics, because they may have traveled to these places. They may get mail from these places. I just don't know.
I talked to another doctor who said: Well, I don't think that's a very good idea, because the chances again are so teeny-tiny, why would you want to put someone on antibiotics? And so, that doctor said, I would never do that. So it is very much up to individual doctors to handle this -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Elizabeth, I've spoken to several people who are pretty nervous, pretty nervous about taking those antibiotics, especially Cipro. They read all those caveats about the warnings, and they get nervous about that as well.
COHEN: Right, exactly. It's a risk-benefit situation. And so if, for example, someone works in the Brentwood station, doctors would tell them, you know what, these antibiotics can have some nasty side effects -- for example Cipro can give you some terrible GI problems -- however, it's worth it, because we think that you worked in a place where you could have been exposed to anthrax, and you'd rather have GI problems than be dead. However, if you don't work anywhere near these high-risk places, I think many doctors would tell you, you know, why would you want to give yourself those side effects if your risk of exposure was so small.
So it's all an -- decided on an individual basis.
BLITZER: Elizabeth Cohen with some good advice. Thank you very much for joining us.
Meanwhile here in Washington, on Capitol Hill, the Senate Hart Office Building remains closed. That's where Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle has his office, and where an anthrax-laced letter was delivered and opened, exposing dozens of people to the bacteria.
Envirofoam has been hired to clean up the anthrax in that building. Joining us now from Huntsville, Alabama, the company's CEO, Peter Beucher. Mr. Beucher, thank you for joining us.
First of all, walks us through the process: What are you going to do to clean up, to sanitize, to get rid of all those anthrax traces in that new Senate Hart Office Building?
PETER BEUCHER, CEO, ENVIROFOAM: Wolf, I'll change your direction just a little bit. Our product is part of a team. And we've been put into the Ford -- my ear -- the Ford and the Dirksen buildings. We're not participating in the Hart building.
BLITZER: All right. So what are you going to do to clean up the Ford, the Ford Office Building, which is on the House of Representative side, and the Dirksen Senate Office Building?
BEUCHER: Wolf, last Thursday and Friday, we worked with IT Corporation, a professional remediator, and we applied our foam about 3 inches thick on all the walls, ceilings and the roof throughout that building.
The key to Envirofoam is to make sure you've got contact with anthrax for about 1 hour to 1 1/2 hours. After that, the product dries up into a thin film and it can be washed away with soap and water.
BLITZER: So but what are the downsides of this? We're watching it as we talk. It looks like it's a mess.
BEUCHER: Well, it's a mess, but this product was engineered to be an enviro -- environmentally friendly product for both biological and chemical weapons. It's a water-based emulsion. Yes, it'll wrinkle papers, but it shows no damage to any kind of fabric, any kind of wall leather. We've applied this in a plethora of different situations and have shown really no significant damage, and it cleans up very easily.
BLITZER: And the person who's spraying this foam on -- I see he's wearing all sorts of protective gear. Is that to protect himself from the foam or the potential anthrax traces that are out there?
BEUCHER: It's clearly for the protection for the particular biological or chemical agent. In this case, that suit was geared at a mock training seminar for a chemical agent. It's a little less -- less cumbersome with anthrax. But once you've applied the foam, an hour-and-a-half, two hours later, we're also coming back in protective gear, because until you test, and the EPA comes back and does the appropriate sampling, you have to be safe.
BLITZER: What kind of chemicals are included in that foam? You say they're environmentally friendly and they're safe, but many of our viewers are interested in knowing what the chemicals are.
BEUCHER: Yeah. We've been working diligently with the EPA now for several months to get all the certification necessary to make this product available. We do have emergency use permits to use it on the Capitol Hill building right now. We have been shipping it for specific anthrax situations around the country.
The chemicals in this particular foam can be found under your household sink. It's a -- it's a fairly complicated surfactant, similar to a soap or a hair -- or a shampoo-like product. It wets out the anthrax. It's activated with hydrogen peroxide, so we actually penetrate the spore of the anthrax and we oxidize the DNA of the anthrax molecule. And it does not return. It does not grow back.
BLITZER: And the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have certified that this will, in fact, kill all those anthrax spores or whatever that may be out there?
BEUCHER: Yeah. We got word on late Wednesday, early Thursday from two sources that we had effectively killed and remediated both the Ford and the Dirksen mail rooms. We've done extensive testing with Sandia National Laboratories, a department of DOE, and we've tested this in (UNINTELLIGIBLE) mock situations with all types of biological and chemical warfare agents.
BLITZER: Peter Beucher, thanks for joining us. Good luck with your work over in the House and Senate side, and somebody else obviously is going to be cleaning up the Hart Senate Office Building as well. We appreciate your joining us.
BEUCHER: Thanks, Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you.
And up next, the author of the bestseller "Clash of Civilizations" on why this is truly America's new war. But first, these stories from today's news wire.
The Justice Department and Microsoft have reached a tentative agreement to settle the four-year antitrust case against the country. But at the state level, governments have until Tuesday to study the details and they may pursue a tougher course than the proposed settlement.
Tropical Storm Michelle has been upgraded to a hurricane, and the Weather Service says people in South Florida should stay alert. The storm is about 270 miles south-southwest of Cuba, and a hurricane watch covers part of that country.
Forecasters say they cannot yet tell if the storm will head toward Florida.
British Prime Minister Tony Blair plans to take the Concorde when he flies to Washington next Wednesday. The supersonic jet's been grounded for more than a year since the deadly crash in Paris. Mr. Blair will be updating President Bush on his just-completed trip to the Middle East.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Although U.S. bombs are falling on Afghanistan, the war against terrorism is being framed as a borderless battle. And one best-selling author who forecast such a battlefield now has the ear of influential policy-makers. He spoke to CNN senior political analyst Bill Schneider.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): 1989, Mr. Gorbachev tears down that wall. 1991, the Soviet Union collapses. It's a whole new world.
What kind of world? "Might it look like 'the clash of civilizations'?" Samuel P. Huntington of Harvard University asked in a controversial article published in 1993. By 1996, the question mark had disappeared. The clash of civilizations was as fact, and Huntington's theory was a book, since September 11th a best-seller.
The rivalry of the superpowers, Huntington wrote, is replaced by the clash of civilizations, a world defined not by economic or ideological conflict, but cultural conflict, often dangerously reinforced by religion.
For instance, the West, led by the United States; the Orthodox East, dominated by Russia; the Muslim world, stretching from North Africa to Southeast Asia. The new wars will be fought on the fault lines of those great civilizations, like the Balkans, where the Christian, Orthodox and Muslim worlds collide, and Afghanistan, the frontier between Islam, Russia and now the West.
(on camera): You say, "The United States has had extraordinary difficulty" -- this is at the end of your book -- "adopting to an era in which global politics is shaped by culture and civilization." Why? Are Americans at a disadvantage when it comes to understanding the clash of civilizations.
SAMUEL HUNTINGTON, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: We know very, very little about non-Western societies as a whole, and this, I think, makes it difficult for us to work with them. And we don't understand that other societies have their own sets of values, and we think all the world should be just like us.
SCHNEIDER (voice-over): At times, President Bush uses the apocalyptic language of a clash of civilizations.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a war between good and evil.
SCHNEIDER: But then he denies it.
BUSH: This is not a world between our world and their world.
SCHNEIDER (on camera): Do you foresee an end to the clash of civilizations, looking far into the future? Your book is also titled "The Remaking of World Order." This looks like an endless conflict.
HUNTINGTON: We have to recognize that this is a multipolar, multicultural, multicivilizational world. We have to learn to coexist with different civilizations. And I think civilizations can be the basis for world order if the leading states in each civilization take responsibility for maintaining order with the -- among the peoples in their civilization.
Now, one problem is there is no leading Muslim state as there is with the United States and the European Union and the West, or with Russia, Japan, China, India and so forth. But who do you deal with in Islam?
Henry Kissinger 30 years ago, you know, made the comment, "When I want to speak to Europe, what number do I call?" Well, if you want to speak to Islam, what number do you call? Cairo, Riyadh, Ankara, Islamabad, Tehran, Jakarta? What? It's difficult to deal with, and that's a real problem. And I think that encourages violence both within the Muslim world and between Muslims and non-Muslims.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Now, it's a struggle over the definition of this war. The terrorists claim this is a clash of civilizations. Professor Huntington's advice to American policy-makers is you better not let it become one.
BLITZER: And I know he was your Ph.D. adviser at Harvard...
SCHNEIDER: That's right.
BLITZER: ... a long time ago. It's nice to see that he's still around, he's still writing best-sellers.
But he got sort of a plug from Salman Rushdie in that op-ed piece in "The New York Times" today.
SCHNEIDER: Yes, Salman Rushdie, the distinguished writer of Muslim background, essentially said he partly associated himself with Samuel Huntington's thesis.
He said policy-makers claim this is not about Islam, but Rushdie says the trouble with that necessary disclaimer is it isn't true. He said there are divisions in the Muslim world, but basically for the Muslim populations of the world this is about Islam, it is a clash of civilizations, and that's the problem.
BLITZER: OK, Bill Schneider, as always, thanks for that good work
And I'll be back in one hour with more on -- more coverage on what's happening on the war front. I'll be here in the CNN war room. Among my guests, the former National Security Adviser Brent Scowcroft. He'll be here with me as well as some other experts. We'll take a look at what's happening on the war in Afghanistan.
For now, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. CNN's coverage of "America's New War" will continue with "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE."
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