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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

War Room: The Military Strategy

Aired November 08, 2001 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: THE WAR ROOM: One hour from now, President Bush talks to the nation about homeland security.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: He will make a very clear case that the government is on the case and doing everything that it possibly can.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: But after a visit to health workers fighting bioterrorism, the president will tell Americans that life for them will never be as it was before September 11.

The U.S. commander of the war in Afghanistan reports progress and says anti-Taliban forces are on the move.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. TOMMY FRANKS, U.S. ARMY: There is a big fight that's going on in the vicinity of Mazar-e-Sharif.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: I'll discuss the fight on both fronts with Senators Joe Lieberman and Fred Thompson and former NATO supreme commander, retired General Wesley Clark, as we go into THE WAR ROOM.

BLITZER: Good evening. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting tonight from Washington.

On September 20, President Bush delivered his now famous and, by all accounts, highly acclaimed speech on terrorism before Congress. Tonight, in about an hour, he will make a similar effort in Atlanta. His subject: the nation's homeland security.

We'll spend some time tonight previewing what he'll say. We'll also talk about the other front, the war in Afghanistan. But let's begin with the president.

Traveling with him is our senior White House correspondent, John King. He joins us now live from Atlanta -- John? JOHN KING, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And, Wolf, we are told tonight the president will describe a country forever changed by the events of September 11 and tell all Americans they have a role in the new effort to improve what the White House calls the homeland security, domestic security here in the United States.

The president will also update the American people on all the steps the government has taken and will take in its effort to improve airline security, to improve security around major facilities like dams and nuclear power plants, to put law enforcement agencies across the country on high alert, because of what the president will describe in his speech tonight, we are told, is the continuing threat of terrorist attacks here in the United States.

As part of his lead-up to the speech, the president, a short time ago, took a tour here in Atlanta of the headquarters for the Centers for Disease Control, that agency involved prominently in the government's response to those anthrax mailings. Some criticized the agency for responding slowly, for not putting postal facilities around the country on high alert fast enough. But the president, in his very brief remarks after this tour at the CDC headquarters, said he believed the doctors and the scientists there on the frontlines of the war on domestic terrorism had saved lives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The folks that work with CDC are part of a vast army to fight off the terrorist attacks in America. And I am so fortunate to be able to come by and say hello to the people that are working endless hours to provide good public health information, remedy, quick response to people who have been affected by this evil attack.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Mr. Bush will promise in tonight's speech that the federal government will remain vigilant in the war on terrorism here at home. He will urge all Americans to go about their daily lives, but ask them to take a role in this campaign as well.

And, Wolf, CNN has learned that, already, the president planning for additional announcements tomorrow back in Washington. He will announce a more prominent role for National Guard forces in airport security. There have been some criticism and a still partisan debate in the Congress over new airline security legislation. Because that legislation has not been passed, we are told the president will announce several new measures. Among them, increased National Guard presence at airports and an increased role for those National Guard troops in watching people as they check in for their flights at airports -- Wolf.

BLITZER: John, unlike the president's speech before Congress, tonight's speech will not be carried by the major broadcast networks. Is that a source of concern to the White House, that's he's not going to get the audience that he perhaps would have liked? KING: It is a concern, yes, but they also did not pressure the networks. This would have been an Oval Office address, a formal address to the American people if they thought they needed to demand that network time.

They are calling this a major policy address tonight. They believe most Americans will listen in. But yes, there's some disappointment that the president won't have as big an audience as he did when he spoke to the Congress.

BLITZER: John King in Atlanta, thank you very much.

And of course, CNN will have live coverage of the President's address on homeland security. That begins in less than an hour at 8:00 Eastern.

Let's begin our WAR ROOM discussion on the subject of homeland security.

I'm joined now by Senators Joe Lieberman and Fred Thompson, both members of the Governmental Affairs Committee which has held hearings on the subject. Senator Lieberman is, of course, the chairman. Senator Thompson is the ranking member.

Also with us here in our WAR ROOM, the retired General Wesley Clark, CNN military analyst, the former supreme allied commander of NATO. Thanks to all of you for joining us.

Senator Lieberman, what do you want to hear from the president tonight?

SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN (D-CT), GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS CHAIRMAN: This is an important speech. The president set a very high standard in his remarks to Congress on September 20, really articulated what I have been calling the Bush doctrine, about the importance of defeating terrorists and not letting states that sponsor or harbor terrorists to get away with it and asking every nation to take a stand, with us or against us with the terrorists.

Tonight, I think it's a moment when we're now two months from September 11, when a president should take a look back at the progress we've made and particularly reassure people about homeland security. I think he has got a nation that is as united as it's ever been. And it really wants to be part of helping America, serving. I think it's time for him and all of us to get together and figure out ways to give the people an opportunity to protect our homeland.

I don't think the American people are going south in this battle. They understand the importance of it. They are sticking with it. And they want to hear some reassuring and encouraging news from their president tonight.

BLITZER: Senator Thompson, it's also a very jittery nation, a nation still on -- very much on edge, reflected in one of the e-mails we got for you tonight from our viewers. Chuck in Minneapolis wrote us with this question: There should be more efforts to inform Americans rather than scare them into hyper- alertness. How do you see the office of homeland security succeeding in that task? And what are congressional leaders doing to ensure its success?

SEN. FRED THOMPSON (R), TENNESSEE: Well, in the first place, the office of homeland security is being asked to make up for over a decade of things that we should have done by now already. And now they are having to play catch-up ball. And they are not going to be able to assure everybody of total safety with regard to everything.

Obviously, a delicate balance is going to have to be walked. People are going to have to be warned when the leaders think that there are credible threats out there. On the other hand, we have got to go about our daily business. It's going to be awkward. It's going to take some time. We're not used to doing that. We're not used to making sacrifices on a daily basis.

But when people ask what they can do, that's what they can do, listen to their leaders, whether they're local or national, have a state of alertness, be good citizens, report what they see if necessary, but then go on about their daily lives, and don't depend on people in Washington to have all the answers because we never do and this is no exception.

BLITZER: General Clark, as you know, and you heard John King report, the president is going to be announcing that he needs more National Guard troops to be involved. Fighter aircraft are being involved protecting homeland security right now, F-16s patrolling the skies over major airports. How much of a drain does this put on the U.S. military which is engaged in an actual war on the ground in Afghanistan?

RETIRED GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: FORMER NATO SUPREME COMMANDER: Well, it is a drain. It's especially a drain on the Guard and Reserve people because they have got normal jobs and normal lives to lead.

But on the other hand, I think the American people feel really good about seeing the National Guard in the airports and they feel really good knowing that some of the people in their neighborhood are called up in helping to protect America. And I think that's really the key thing that I hope will come through in this speech tonight, is there will be a way for the American people to participate, and you'll let all of us be part of this team.

BLITZER: OK, Gentlemen, stand by.

The commander of the military campaign in Afghanistan delivered a progress report on the course of the war.

Let's go live to the Pentagon. CNN military affairs correspondent Jamie McIntyre, who was there for that briefing -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, there is still reports of ebb and flow of a battle around the key city of Mazar-e Sharif. And with -- at this point -- only reports of modest battlefield gains. The Pentagon was signaling, today, that it is settling in for a long winter of fighting.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): As heavy U.S. bombing of Taliban strongholds continues, reports from the northern front describe modest success by anti-Taliban militias and some retreat of Taliban troops.

But the Pentagon's consideration of dispatching the aircraft carrier John Stennis more than a month early to relieve the Carl Vinson is a clear signal that thinks the war is likely to last through the winter.

FRANKS: I have described this as an effort that will, in fact, take as long as it takes.

MCINTYRE: The four-star general in command of U.S. forces made a rare appearance at the Pentagon Thursday, explaining he's too busy to conduct regular briefings the way General Norman Schwarzkopf did during the 1991 Persian Gulf War.

FRANKS: Well, I suppose I'd begin sort of at the end by acknowledging that Tommy Franks is no Norman Schwarzkopf.

MCINTYRE: Franks also defended his methodical war plan, which has drawn fire from some generals in the Pentagon, as unimaginative and too timid, with fewer than 100 bombing sorties a day.

FRANKS: To talk to the specific of do I believe that this campaign plan was too timid -- absolutely not.

MCINTYRE: Frank's boss, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, jumped to his defense.

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I think people have in mind Desert Storm and Kosovo and they're beginning to compare different sortie raids and so forth. That is a misunderstanding of the situation.

MCINTYRE: And Rumsfeld attempted to put to rest recent media speculation that dissatisfaction with the war's progress might result in Franks being fired.

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: He has my full trust and respect, and I know he has the trust and respect of the president of the United States.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: And Franks made one cryptic comment that seemed to be at odds with President Bush's statement that Osama bin Laden was wanted "dead or alive." He said -- quote -- "We have not said Osama bin Laden is a target of this effort." But afterward, Pentagon officials insisted that Franks was not trying to take Osama bin Laden off the most-wanted list, that he was simply trying to make clear that the war against terrorism is about more than just getting Osama bin Laden -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Jamie, what was General Franks' assessment of the battle that seems to be getting very near for the strategic town of Mazar-e-Sharif in the northern part of Afghanistan.

MCINTYRE: He seemed to be very reluctant to make an assessment of what's actually going on there. He referred to news media reports of the pitched battle that's going on. If he had some of his own intelligence, he was keeping it close to the vest, not wanting to make an overoptimistic projection. But he did again restate the strategic importance of how having Mazar-e-Sharif would allow the United States to have a place on the ground where it could bring in supplies and humanitarian aid, and would make a land bridge between Uzbekistan, where supplies and aid could also be brought in.

So clearly, the United States is hoping that that town and that airport will fall into the hands of the Northern Alliance.

BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon, thank you very much.

And let's continue our war room discussion now once again with -- let's go to Senator Lieberman. Are you frustrated by the course of this war?

SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (D), CONNECTICUT: No, I'm not. This was never going to be easy. It's far away. We don't have bases near at hand from which to deploy. We've got our carriers over there, which are obviously being very helpful and being a base from which planes can fly. We've got an enemy that's dispersed. So it's going to take some period of time.

But this is so critical. Remember, we are fighting a force that killed almost 6,000 Americans here on American soil. So we are going to do whatever it takes to win. And I count on the military leadership, of the Pentagon leadership to be prepared to do that.

And just the other day -- and of course he said it publicly -- Secretary Rumsfeld met with some us. We asked about the possibility of more American ground troops, and he said everything is on the table, including that. So we're building our strength. We've accomplished a lot so far. And we're going to do whatever we have to do to get the Taliban out of power and destroy bin Laden and al Qaeda.

BLITZER: As you know, Senator Thompson, it's not going to get any easier politically with the start of the month of Ramadan, the Muslim holy month, November 17th, and the beginning of winter, which could complicate this military campaign. So what the American public should anticipate is months and months and months of this going on.

THOMPSON: In other words, exactly what the president and the secretary have said all along.

You see in this last clip what they're confronted with. They've been saying it would take months and months, and possibly years, to see this thing through, and yet people express surprise that we're going through the winter. So it takes a lot of discussion in order to get the point across, which is exactly what Joe Lieberman just said.

So it clearly is going to take a while. We can't lose sight of the fact of what we're doing and how important it is. We must prevail. We have no choice, no option. We can't have 535 tacticians every day second-guessing what these people are doing. Let them do their job.

BLITZER: We've got one tactician over here, a four-star general.

LIEBERMAN: I just have...

BLITZER: He's going to stand by, but go ahead, senator.

LIEBERMAN: Real briefly to what Fred has said, we only have actually been fighting since October 7th. So it's about a month in a very difficult terrain, difficult tactical situation. So give us time.

BLITZER: All right, general, let me play devil's advocate for a second, and we'll go to our map and show Mazar-e-Sharif, for example, which as you well know is a key strategic town in the northern part of Afghanistan. It's right up here. And if the Northern Alliance, which controls this area, can take this Mazar-e-Sharif, it opens the door for a lot of support coming in from some of the Central Asian republics, including Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan. So it's obviously a very, very important site.

Why is it taking so long, given the enormous amount of airstrikes, for the Northern Alliance to go in and take that town?

CLARK: Well, based on the troop strength figures that I've seen reflected in the press, the Northern Alliance is trying to attack and it's outnumbered by the defenders by two or three to one. The defenders have got a reign of terror going in that town. They've intimidated the population. That town has been ethnically cleansed once or twice by the Taliban. It's been a scene of a lot of brutal massacres.

And the Northern Alliance has got to attack in such a way that it wins over time. What they can't afford to do is attack and break their sword against the shield there in Mazar-e-Sharif. They've got to keep the pressure on, and slowly nibble, bite, fight, push and claw their way into Mazar-e-Sharif. They're outnumbered, and so they're going to be dependent on American air power. And American power is as effective as the target spotting, and the target spotting is done by our people. And we've got to get up close enough, we've got to have enough people in there, and we've got to be able to spot those targets.

No point in launching a bunch of infantry assaults against people dug in. That's just going to cause needless casualties to the Northern Alliance.

So persistence and patience, they're the watch words here. But with our combat power I think the outcome is inevitable.

BLITZER: All right, we're going to take a quick break. We have a lot more to talk about. When we come back, while the Pentagon says it's satisfied with progress on the battlefield, is Osama bin Laden winning the public relations war? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to our WAR ROOM. The United States is unleashing its military might in the war against terrorism, but how is it faring in the parallel battle for the hearts and minds of the Muslim and Arab world? Let's once again go to Senator Lieberman.

It seems like at least in much of the Arab world and the Muslim world the U.S. is losing this propaganda war. Why?

LIEBERMAN: Well, I think we're not making our case well enough, and I'm glad to see that someone's been designated within the State Department, someone with an advertising background, because this is all about marketing. We've got a case. This is not a war against Islam or Arabs. It's a war against terrorists.

And I think the best way to make that case is to say that over the last 10 years we've been involved in three major encounters where we put American lives at risk, and they were all on behalf of Arabs and Muslims: the Gulf War, Bosnia and Kosovo.

Here in America, Islam is growing dramatically because of the freedom and respect we give to our fellow Americans who are Muslim.

So we've got a case to make, and I think we're just beginning to make it. But once we do, we're going to be all right.

BLITZER: And you can add Somalia to that list as well.

LIEBERMAN: Somalia's right.

BLITZER: We got another e-mail that underscores this problem, and I want you to respond to it, Senator Tomorrow. Syed in Pakistan asks this question: "Why is the United States bombing civilians in Afghanistan? It sees they are doing it intentionally."

THOMPSON: Is that...

BLITZER: That's a question he asks, and it's a -- there's a widespread impression out there.

THOMPSON: I don't think that it's that widespread. Clearly, you've got to bomb the military targets first. That is what they are doing. Clearly, they are moving cots in after some of these buildings are bombed and bringing in some wounded people and all that. Everybody, I think, knows that.

That's gotten to be an old game. But you know, getting back to what Joe was talking about, we ought to count up the number of Muslims that Saddam Hussein has killed. Some of this is intractable, though. You have so called respectable journalists in some of these moderate Arab states saying things like it is all a Jewish conspiracy, the airplanes into the towers, that we are poisoning those Afghan civilians by dropping the foods and things like that.

You can't dissuade that sort of foolishness. But what you to win the public relations battle, ultimately, is win and prevail.

CLARK: I think the other thing we have to do is get moderate Arab leaders. We have to get the Saudi government, the Egyptian government and other Arab leaders out making that case for us.

We don't speak with the same authority that they could in the world of Islam, and especially the Saudis.

THOMPSON: We haven't had much luck doing that, so far, have we?

CLARK: Well, we just had the first breakthrough this be weekend. The prince of Turkey came out and condemned Osama bin Laden. That was an important step because just as in the case of Kosovo, it wasn't until the leaders of NATO really understood that it wasn't about Kosovo, it was about the future of NATO that they really got into it.

In this case, the leaders of Islamic countries have to understand that they are the real target of Osama bin Laden. And until they come up and defend themselves and their interpretation of Islam, they are not going to be safe.

BLITZER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Senator Lieberman, is that why they are not taking your advice and beginning to hit Saddam Hussein, even as the U.S. hits the Taliban?

LIEBERMAN: Well, my advice not to begin to hit Saddam Hussein now. My counsel, which I believe, a lot of people in the Bush Administration agree with, is that so long as he is in power, America is in danger.

Obviously, if we find really conclusive evidence that he was the part of the attacks on September 11, and there is some circumstantial evidence, such as his intelligence people meeting with Mohamed Atta and others in the al Qaeda network, then we should hit Saddam. But what I say, is that the president's war on terrorism policy is correct. When we get done with the Taliban and bin Laden, then Saddam has to be next.

BLITZER: Do you agree?

THOMPSON: Yes. A defector, I think, was in the store today, another defector, Iraqi defector, says that they are training terrorists in Iraq. So the facts are adding up. We are not going to be able to ignore it forever.

Getting back to what general says, I think he is absolutely right, but I think those Muslim leaders are looking to make sure we have the determination. In times past, we have not had the determination to stick it out. I think we do now, and when they see that we will have a little better luck with them. CLARK: And I think when they see that,we will also be able to bring the full weight of international law and the United Nations Security Council against not only Osama bin Laden, but also against Saddam Hussein. To give him an opportunity one more time to fess up, and show the U.N. special commission what he's got, and if he doesn't do it, better make sure we use it against him.

BLITZER: Unfortunately we have to leave it right there, but we are going to bring you back soon, I hope. We will all be watching the president's speech.

Senators, Generals, great to you here in the CNN WAR ROOM. And what is the price of terror for the Postal Service, and what will it cost you? Details of that and other latest developments when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Here are some of the latest developments we're following. Pakistani president, Pervez Musharraf, voiced concern again today about airstrikes during Ramadan. Mr. Musharraf met with British Prime Minister Tony Blair in London. He'll meet with President Bush this weekend in New York.

The Postmaster General asked Congress today for $5 billion to cover terror and security related costs for the Postal Service. He says postal customers shouldn't have to pay. And fighter jets forced a small plane to land in Ocala, Florida today, after the FAA raised questions about its flight plan.

The pilot is from Angola. He's being questioned.

That's all the time we have. Please stay with CNN throughout the night. We'll have live coverage of President Bush's address on homeland security at 8:00 Eastern. And join me again tomorrow twice at both 5:00 and 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "CROSSFIRE" begins right now.

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