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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
America's New War: The Anthrax Mystery
Aired November 09, 2001 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Today on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: "America Strikes Back." Who is behind the anthrax mailing? Today the FBI offers some analysis.
Has the Northern Alliance captured a key Afghan city?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our forces have been able to break into Mazar-e Sharif.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: The Pentagon reacts cautiously.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REAR ADM. JOHN STUFFLEBEEM, JOINT STAFF DEPUTY OPS. DIRECTOR: There is a lot of dust in the air right now. There are skirmishes happening across these various fronts, if you want to call them, as such, and with that dust in the air, it's very hard to tell exactly what's going on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: We'll ask former NATO commander Wesley Clark, whether there has been a breakthrough in the war.
Guarding against danger at airports. The White House calls in reinforcements.
Does the federal government have the right to listen in on attorney-client conversations?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROGER COSSACK, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Look, things have changed in the United States since September 11th.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: CNN's Roger Cossack, on the rights people may lose so America can win its war on terror. And a day after President Bush visits the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, does the agency have a grip on the anthrax investigation? I'll ask a top CDC investigator.
Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting from Washington, where the FBI has just released clues as to who may be behind the anthrax letters. This hour, we'll share with you what the government has just shared with us.
But first: the latest developments. Here's Kyra Phillips in Atlanta -- Kyra.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, Wolf.
The Pentagon says it will wait for the dust to settle before confirming the fall of Mazar-e Sharif. A leader of the anti-Taliban rebels says his troops are in complete control of the north Afghan city, after a lightning offensive. Mazar-e Sharif would be the first major city to fall from the hands of the Taliban to the rebels. A Pentagon spokesperson says the situation is fluid and confusing.
United States warplanes attacked targets near Kabul and Kandahar Friday, and a Defense Department official rejected calls for a bombing pause during Ramadan. The official did say the United States hopes to expand relief efforts during the Muslim holiday, though.
Also today, the Pentagon approved an early deployment of the aircraft carrier, Stennis, to the Arabian Sea. The carrier and its battle group at to depart San Diego on Monday. When the Stennis arrives, around Christmas, the Pentagon will have four carrier groups in the region until the scheduled departure of the USS Carl Vinson.
Today the FBI says anthrax letters mailed to NBC, to Senator Tom Daschle and the "New York Post" were probably sent by the same person. They are the only three letters recovered so far that contained the deadly toxin. Officials also describe potential personality traits of the unknown sender. We'll have more on that in just a moment.
New Jersey health officials say four more Trenton area postal facilities have traces of anthrax. A spokesperson called the amounts of anthrax minimal, and said the postal locations will remain in operation while they are cleaned. He cited cross-contamination with other area postal facilities as the likely cause of the anthrax.
At the White House, President Bush predicted victory against what he called an evil and determined enemy. Mr. Bush spoke at a White House ceremony to honor the National Guard for helping defend the homeland. The president announced the call-up of about 2,000 additional Guard troops, to help provided security at civilian airports.
Wolf, back to you. We'll have more in about half an hour.
BLITZER: Thank you, Kyra.
Our top story at this hour is the anthrax investigation. The FBI now says it knows more about three anthrax-tainted letters and about whoever may have sent them. Our Eileen O'Connor has been following the story. She joins me now live.
Eileen, first of all, what did the FBI say about who may have written these letters?
EILEEN O'CONNOR, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they say they're not ruling out that it was a group, but their behavioral analysts believe that it was written by one individual, and that one individual may be responsible for sending these letters.
If you take a look at one of the letters, you see that the Letter One is a very deliberately written. It's not just a single stroke. It's very deliberate. They also say the kinds of wording in the letter, it looks like it was actually purposeful -- that "death to America," "death to Israel," isn't typical of an Islamic militant threat. And they say it might have been designed to thrown people off.
BLITZER: And what did they say about the type of behavior this individual may have been showing around September 11th?
O'CONNOR: Well, they say that people should look for, perhaps, an individual who started working overtime, or set off a section of their home. Someone who's familiar in science or has a background in science. And that this person also may have started taking antibiotics, and was probably showing a lot of disinterest, originally in the media. But once those anthrax letters started coming out, showed a lot more interest, and couldn't get enough of the media.
BLITZER: Why, Eileen, is the FBI releasing all this information right now?
O'CONNOR: They say they've had a lot of interviews with serial bombers, and they know that with Ted Kaczynski, he was a loner. And that this person may well fit that profile. And one of the things that helped in the Kaczynski case was the fact that the family saw the writings of the Unabomber, and in fact, it was the family who turned the person in.
And the FBI says a lot of their tips, "America's Most Wanted" or those most-wanted posters, a lot of the help that solves those cases comes from the public. That's what they're hoping for here: someone who knows someone exhibiting this behavior will talk to the FBI.
BLITZER: You have good sources inside the FBI. Do they think this is the work of Al Qaeda?
O'CONNOR: They believe that it's a possibility, but they really -- they say, according to their analysis, it looks like it probably isn't. Again, Wolf, they're just not ruling anything in or out.
BLITZER: Eileen O'Connor, good work. Thank you.
Seventeen people have been documented with anthrax since September. They all have some connection to the mail, except for one. CNN's Gary Tuchman is in New York where, 10 days after the latest anthrax death, investigators are still scratching their heads.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A subway fare card. Could a card used by Kathy Nguyen help unravel America's anthrax mystery?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She would always buy a round trip pass, you know, so she could come and go, without having to stop here all the time. But I used to see her. She would say, "hi, how you doing?"
TUCHMAN: Following her death from inhalation anthrax, at least two New York City metro cards were found in her apartment. Investigators are taking data from the cards, which tell them where she got on the subway and where she got off.
Because everything tested so far, where she lived, where she worked, has come back negative, investigators hope the subway fare card can provide a clue as to where this woman, who had nothing to do with the post office, the news media or politics, was exposed to the deadly anthrax.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are just hoping that we can make a connection. Maybe she went into some restaurant that someone was really affected with it. And that's where you have to backtrack.
TUCHMAN: A working theory: that somewhere outside her home she accidentally came into contact with someone responsible for all the anthrax attacks. Backtracking, authorities hope, could help lead them to the person or persons responsible.
(on camera): But there is no reason to believe authorities are anywhere close to solving this mystery. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention saying that it's -- quote -- "struck" about the difficulty of getting day-to-day information.
(voice-over): In a sad irony, one of Kathy Nguyen's neighbors in her Bronx apartment building, says Kathy warned her about anthrax, the day she got sick.
(on camera): On Thursday, Kathy told you, you should wash your hands, be careful about anthrax.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said wash your hands. You go take the letter.
TUCHMAN: When you get the letter in the box, wash your hands.
(voice-over): Her mailbox tested negative for anthrax, as did her apartment, her clothing, the hospital supply room where she worked. Even some subway employees have been tested. It's all come out negative, which has only deepened this mystery.
Gary Tuchman, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER: The lead CDC investigator in this case is Dr. Stephen Ostroff. I spoke with him in the past hour and asked him about this, and other anthrax incidents.
Dr. Ostroff, thanks for joining us. And first of all, can you update us on the course of the New York investigation? Any progress being made as to how Kathy Nguyen, for example, got inhalation anthrax?
DR. STEPHEN OSTROFF, CDC: There isn't anything new to report. There's still a very intensive investigation going on, which largely, is trying to fill in all of the -- what are many missing pieces of what she may have been doing in the seven to 14 days before she became ill.
That takes a lot of meticulous detective work, and that's detective work, both on the part of the detectives, as well as on the part of the public health authorities. And there are no new breakthroughs in that area, that I'm aware of.
BLITZER: Do you sense that, if you were to determine how she contracted the inhalation anthrax, that could be a key to resolving this mystery?
OSTROFF: As I said repeatedly, she represents what we call the out-lyer, in that she doesn't seem to have the same types of risk factors as all of the other patients, that have occurred over the course of this episode. And because she's an out-lyer, she could provide very, very important information about what the source of the whole episode is, and also potentially about the modes of transmission.
So that's why we've worked so intensively to try to explain the circumstances of her illness.
BLITZER: How concerned are you, Dr. Ostroff, that there could be some other cases, like Kathy Nguyen's, potentially out there in the New York City area?
OSTROFF: Well, at the time that we first heard about her illness, there was already a system that was in place, essentially, since the September 11th events, to monitor for different types of syndromes, including the type of illness that she presented with.
We went back and looked through that for the time period just before she became ill, and we've continued to look, since we recognized her illness. And we've investigated a number of other illnesses, but none of them appear to have been anthrax.
BLITZER: Is it time, as some have suggested, in the New York City area, to start some environmental testing of the entire subway system?
OSTROFF: Well, I think that we've been looking into all aspects of what this woman did, prior to the time that she became ill. I think it's best to leave it to the people within the city health department, and within the city government, to make decisions and to make statements about where they would be testing or not be testing.
I'm back here in Atlanta, and I'm not the best one to be making those types of statements.
BLITZER: As you know, there were some other postal facilities in the Trenton, New Jersey area that now have been discovered to have some traces of anthrax as well. How does this fit into the entire picture?
OSTROFF: Well, it helps us piece together exactly what happened. But I don't think that it really changes the public health decision making at this point. Essentially, what we have seen throughout this episode is that small, or what we would call traces of these anthrax spores, can sort of be carried -- what we refer to as downstream.
And the tests that we're using are actually extremely sensitive. And so, if you test enough environmental samples in areas where the spores could have been carried to, then there's certainly the possibility of picking up a positive here and there.
We don't think that that has very much public health relevance, and it wouldn't change recommendations about what to do, particularly if they're found a long time after some of those spores would have been carried into that environment, because we know over time, that these things settle out, and they don't represent a public health risk.
BLITZER: Do you -- if there are no more cases of either the inhalation or the cutaneous, or skin, anthrax, is this case effectively closed, even if you don't discover who was responsible for it?
OSTROFF: No, I don't think that this case is closed until we figure out how this occurred, who did it. And we won't feel confident that it's ended until the individual or individuals that are responsible are apprehended.
BLITZER: So you're not going to give up. Dr. Ostroff, thanks so much for joining us.
OSTROFF: Thank you.
BLITZER: How does anthrax spread? Find out on our Web site. Go to cnn.com/anthrax. Click on "10 Things You Should Know." The AOL keyword is CNN.
Next here, the war in Afghanistan, and claims that the Northern Alliance now hold a strategic town. We'll explore the implications.
Later, patrolling the airports. What's behind the National Guard's higher profile?
And one soldier's 83 year wait for a purple heart. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Welcome back.
The big news out of Afghanistan today is the reported capture of Mazar-e Sharif by rebel forces opposed to the Taliban. The same rebel commander whose troops were driven from the city some three years ago is now claiming his forces killed 90 Taliban soldiers, and have the city under control. That claim cannot be confirmed right now, but if true, it could be the sort of break the rebels and the Pentagon have needed.
A CNN team is close to the scene of the fighting and they have this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Ben Wedeman in Khoja Bahauddin, in northern Afghanistan. The Northern Alliance claims to have retaken the strategic city of Mazar-e Sharif in a surprise move which, if true, represents a major setback for the Taliban.
According the Alliance, the advance on Mazar-e Sharif began Friday afternoon, and within a matter of hours, they had retaken control of the city after relatively little resistance by the Taliban forces which, the Alliance says, are now on the run out of the city.
Of course, none of these claims could be independently verified, but if true, the recapture of Mazar-e Sharif could provide the U.S.- led coalition with a vital staging point for intensified military action in central and southern parts of the country.
Back to you, Wolf.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Joining us now for more on this is the retired NATO commander, General Wesley Clark. General Clark joins us now live. He is, of course, a CNN military analyst. First of all, I want you to listen to what a Pentagon spokesman said earlier today, General, about this latest development.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STUFFLEBEEM: There's a lot of dust in the air right now. There are skirmishes happening across these various fronts, if you want to call them as such. And with that dust in the air, it's very hard to tell exactly what's going on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: What's your take, General Clark, on what all this may mean?
RETIRED GEN. WESLEY CLARK, FORMER NATO SUPREME COMMANDER: Well, if it's true that the rebels have gone in and taken Mazar-e Sharif, it has three important implications. First, it opens up a corridor, a line of communication, in which you can ground resupply from Uzbekistan into the Northern Alliance. That's operationally significant.
BLITZER: Let me interrupt you for a second, because as you speak, General Clark, I want to go to our map and telestrate precisely some of the points you're going to be making. But go ahead, and I'll point out. This is of course Mazar-e Sharif right here. But the corridor would be open, and that would be one area they would be going in from there.
CLARK: That's exactly right. And this is operationally significant. But I think more important is the fact that it validates the U.S. strategy of applying air power against the Taliban and letting the Northern Alliance follow up on the ground.
Now, that works well in open areas. It won't work in populated areas. And so it shows that if the Taliban tries to hold in these traditional areas where it has with the trench lines, and they can be bombed, their morale can be broken, their command and control falls apart, the Northern Alliance is going come in there and take over, and that's important.
And finally, it sets up a momentum against the Taliban, in which -- and this is the way wars in Afghanistan traditionally get decided. People figure out which side is losing and which side is winning, and the losers become winners by shifting sides. And that's really the strategic prize, in this case.
BLITZER: I want to point out to our viewers and to you, General Clark, that this battle for Mazar-e Sharif has been going on now for several days. Once again, I want to go to our map and show our viewers what's happened over the past few days.
First of all, once again, this is Mazar-e Sharif right here. These are the two air bases, airports, right outside the city. But on Wednesday, we're told this village leading to Mazar-e Sharif was taken by the Northern Alliance, and this one taken only yesterday. And supposedly today they're moving in on the actual city.
But this could be dangerous fighting. There could be traps there. This is building-by-building, could be even hand-to-hand combat, couldn't it, General?
CLARK: It could. And this is an area in which the risks go up much higher, because in hand-to-hand combat like this, there's no way for the United States air power to come in and support. This is something the Northern Alliance has to work by itself. And if they get in trouble in there, they'll be in trouble.
And if they really did make the attack outnumbered, then we have to hope that the power of American air power broke the command and control of the Taliban so badly that there won't be organized resistance in the city. That might be a pretty good assumption in this case.
Mazar-e Sharif has seen a lot of fighting in the past. It's never been a pro-Taliban city. They've occupied and controlled it by force and by threat and by intimidation, and it's very possible the Northern Alliance would be welcomed in there as liberators.
BLITZER: It doesn't do anything, though, at least not directly, as far as Kandahar in the south and some of the other major areas. Even Kabul, the capital, it doesn't necessarily impact directly on taking over any of those locations.
CLARK: It only sets up a strategic momentum against the Taliban. And that only goes as far as Kabul. And so the whole problem of Kandahar in the south is an entirely different problem. It's a different climate zone, it's different tribes. And it's different terrain.
And so that problem is something that the United States hasn't addressed directly, except in the ranger raid. It will be the next challenge.
BLITZER: General Clark, thank you very much for joining us. We appreciate your insight.
Meanwhile, President Bush is scheduled to speak tomorrow to the United Nations General Assembly, which is convening weeks late due to the terror attacks in New York City. Every day it seems the president finds himself pressing America's case, in trying to bolster the coalition that's supporting the nation's cause.
CNN White House correspondent Major Garrett standing by over at the White House, where Mr. Bush today hosted the leader of India, among others. Give us the latest, Major.
MAJOR GARRETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Wolf.
Among others, top diplomats from Morocco, the Czech Republic and Saudi Arabia visited the president privately in the White House. No coverage of those events, only still pictures taken and provided later by the White House. The marquee meeting here at the White House today, clearly, the visit by Indian Prime Minister Vajpayee, to talk to the president about the ongoing war against terrorism and the international coalition. Of course, the topic of Kashmir came up. It is a hot topic of dispute between India and Pakistan, no breakthroughs, there.
And also, we're told by White House officials, no discussion among the two leaders of an interview that Mr. Vajpayee gave to "The Washington Post," published today, where he said the United States, in his view, was not ready to prosecute the war in Afghanistan, and it wasn't going as well as he thought it might. White House officials saying the two leaders did not discuss that topic at all, but other bilateral issues and ongoing cooperation in the war on terrorism.
Later on today, the president signed a proclamation honoring both members who serve the National Guard and the employees who allow that to happen. And he used the opportunity to explain new security measures the National Guard will be carrying out at America's airports, beefing up by 2,000 the number of National Guard personnel who will be patrolling those airports. They will be handling, in a more direct way, baggage screening, gate screening and also protection of airport parking lots and guard towers, themselves, the air traffic control towers.
And the president said all these things are temporary measures designed to improve the sense of public security during the busy holiday travel season.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are calling up these Guardsmen and women immediately. This increase in security will last through the busy holiday period, and is in addition to the more than 6,000 members of the guard already mobilized at airports since September the 11th. These are temporary measures, and we believe they'll help a lot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GARRETT: Wolf, the president took these measures because Congress remains stalemated on airport security. Of course, swift resolution of that issue weeks ago would not have helped the situation for the holiday travel season very much. It would have taken a long time to implement those new security measures. The National Guard will change the security situation immediately.
BLITZER: Major, the president's delivering a major speech tomorrow at the U.N. General Assembly. Give us a sense of what to expect.
GARRETT: What we can expect, Wolf, is the president will begin, in the words of one senior administration official, fleshing out more fully the Bush Doctrine, in this war against terrorism. And it's making a specific reference to nations, that they have to do more than express sympathy to the United States for what happened on September 11th. Concrete actions will be demanded.
And also, the president will refer to this sort of new era that America finds itself in, dealing with its coalition partners. Those who had supported and housed terrorists before, if they changed their ways, will be viewed differently by the White House. But one administration official says it's not an opportunity, it's a requirement, of these countries to change their ways.
Asked if there will be specific references to specific nations, the administration official said no, but they will know who they -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Major Garret at the White House, thank you very much.
And more on the battle from Mazar-e Sharif tonight in the war room. Northern Alliance spokesman Haron Amin will join me, as well as others, 7:00 p.m. Eastern, 4:00 Pacific. And you can participate by going to cnn.com/wolf -- that's our Web site. Click on "send questions." I'll try to answer as many of them as we can at 7:00 p.m. Eastern.
Other news of the day just ahead, including an end to a kidnapping of a 6-year-old girl in New Jersey.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Now checking other stories: On our CNN Newswire, a 6- year-old girl is back home, one day after she was abducted in front of her New Jersey home. Witnesses spotted her at a mall and called police. The suspect, who was holding the girl for ransom, has not been caught. The girl's family moved to New Jersey from the World Trade Center area after the September 11th attacks.
A federal panel charged with overseeing anthrax says the passenger rail system will not meet Congress' deadline for financial self-sufficiency. This means Amtrak has to write up a plan to liquidate. The final decision on its future is up to Congress.
Another chapter may be closing in on Former President Bill Clinton's legal odyssey. Today Bill Clinton formally asked to resign from the bar of the U.S. Supreme Court. If he didn't do this, he could have been suspended. This all goes back to the settlement over allegations that he gave misleading testimony in the Paula Jones sexual harassment case.
We will update you on today's developments in America's new war next, and examine the impact of new federal rules on eavesdropping on attorney-client conversations.
Also, an amazing story. A veteran of World War I finally gets his due recognition. All that is coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. We're beginning to see many more national guard troops at airports and we're also beginning to see a new potential change in the traditional attorney/client relationship. We'll get to all of that in just a moment. But first, once again, Kyra Phillips with the latest. Kyra?
PHILLIPS: Thanks, Wolf. Today the FBI said the only three letters in which anthrax was known to have been mailed probably were sent by the same person. Officials say that while a terrorist group such as al Qaeda might have sent the letters, they are leaning toward one individual. They also say the threats and letters again the United States and Israel are not necessarily typical of Islamic militants.
New Jersey health officials say four more Trenton-area postal facilities have traces of anthrax. A spokesperson called the amounts of anthrax minimal and says the postal locations will remain in operation while they are cleaned. He cited cross-contamination with other area postal facilities as the likely cause of the anthrax.
A leader of the anti-Taliban rebels says his troops are in complete control of the northern Afghan city after a lightning offensive. Mazar-e Sharif would be the first major city to fall from the hands of the Taliban to the rebels. The Pentagon will not confirm rebel claim. A Pentagon spokesperson says, though, the situation is fluid and confusing.
Also, United States war planes attacked targets near Kabul and Kandahar. And a Defense Department official rejected calls for not bombing during Ramadan. The official did not -- or did say, though, say United States hopes to expand relief efforts during the Muslim holy month.
At the White House today, President Bush honored the National Guard for helping defend the United States homeland. Mr. Bush announcing the call of up to some 2, 000 additional Guard troops to help provide security at civilian airports. Tomorrow the president is to address the United Nations General Assembly in New York. Wolf, back to you in D.C..
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Kyra. And since the events of September 11th, law enforcement officials have sought new powers to prevent terrorist attacks. Today we learn the Justice Department is already monitoring conversations between attorneys and some prison inmates. Some believe the government is going way too far.
Joining us now for some insight, CNN Legal Analyst Roger Cossack. Roger, give us the background. What exactly is going on now?
COSSACK: Well, Wolf, this is an extension of what we have seen with the patriot -- "Patriot Act" that was just passed by the House and the Senate having to do with the anti-terrorism bill.
And what this is, is frankly on September 11th the American public turned to the government and said, "protect us." And the government said the only way we can protect you is we're going to have to put in some new and drastic measures that pretty much in some ways do away with the traditional open kinds of society and criminal justice system that we have enjoyed.
And this is part of that, the notion that if there is a reason the government believes that they can monitor conversation between attorneys and clients.
BLITZER: Is this the first time, as far as we know, that the government is actively listening in on conversation between a client and his or her attorney?
COSSACK: No. Historically there have been times. There is a -- there is an exception carved out within the criminal code called the crime fraud exception. And what that basically says is, if the attorney and the client are entered into some kind of nefarious activity or even if the lawyer doesn't know about it, then what goes on between the attorney and the client can be brought public.
But first you have to go to a judge. You have to show the judge -- the government would have to show the judge that it meets the crime fraud exception and then the attorney would be called to testify to the witness stand. The notion you are going to do something where you are going to listen in on the -- between the attorney and the client is highly unusual. But I must say, in all fairness, that part of this law is that they would be informing the attorney and the client that they would be listening in to the conversation.
BLITZER: So it is not as if they are surprising everyone. Just to be precise right now, there are what? About 1200 people that have been picked up, detained, since September 11th for various charges. A lot of them just on visas or immigration status unclear.
COSSACK: Right. And material witnesses. Many have no charges whatsoever.
BLITZER: So if the government thinks some of them may know something about a terrorist action, a previous or an upcoming terrorist action, they are just going to get permission to listen in on everything that they do?
COSSACK: Here is the way it works. And I mean, I think this is -- this part of the law is -- or not of the law, of what Attorney General Ashcroft has decided can be done -- this is the part that really disturbs people.
If a head of a law enforcement believes that they have substantial or -- or reasonable cause to listen in, then they can go get permission based on their belief that they have substantial and reasonable cause. They have to articulate that. But not to a federal judge. And then go ahead and do it.
Well, you know, what is substantial? Is that enough of a -- is that enough of something that -- of a standard? You know, normally we talk about probable cause. This is something that's less than probable cause. It shocks us. We in America are used to the sort of the inviolate rule of attorney/client privilege. What I say to my attorney and what my attorney says to me is between the two of us.
Well, these are strange times and different times. And I think this the government reacting and saying, you know, if you want to be secure, these are some of the rights you are going to have to give up. The courts in the final analysis will be the decision maker as to what we give up and what we don't.
BLITZER: Roger Cossack, educating us once again. Thank you very much.
COSSACK: Thank you.
BLITZER: And more on this debate of attorney/client privilege tonight on "THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN." Tonight learn more about how the secret evidence potentially is being used against detainees. That's at 8:00 p.m. Eastern, 5:00 Pacific.
And this additional programming note. The attorney general, John Ashcroft, will answer questions on these issues and others tonight on "LARRY KING LIVE." That's at 9:00 Eastern, 6:00 Pacific.
As the holiday travel season moves into full swing, folks are seeing something new at airports: the National Guard. CNN's Thelma Gutierrez is at LAX in Los Angeles, of course.
Thelma, first of all, what is the role that the guard is playing over there right now, and how are the passengers dealing with it?
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, I've got to tell you, we are now at the ticket counter of American Airlines. If you were to walk into any of the ticket areas at any of the nine terminals here at LAX, you probably wouldn't see any National Guard members at all.
And that is because they are upstairs out in the second floor at the passenger screening areas. There are two to three guards posted there, depending on how wide the area is. We have been told there are a total of about 80 to 100 National Guard members now assigned to LAX. We don't know if that number will be increased and by how much, but they are covering three shifts here at LAX.
A spokesperson told me a short time ago that they are very happy that that number will be increased. At the Tom Bradley International Terminal, there are National Guard members at each of the two screening areas. And I can tell you, you won't really notice a major presence as we walk through the airport. But when they walk by you carrying those M-16s, I can tell you some of the passengers definitely turned around to give them a second look. Wolf?
BLITZER: Is this, Thelma, mostly for show, as a deterrence, or are they -- these National Guard personnel really ready to go into action?
GUTIERREZ: Wolf, that's a great question. And that is something that all of the passengers out here have been asking us. They have been wondering, they are actually -- they are armed, but are their weapons ready to go should they need? And that's not a question that LAX has gone into at all.
But I can tell you, this is a huge airport, one of the largest in the nation. Nine terminals. So you are talking 80 to 100 National Guardsmen. They don't really make a huge presence here. It's not felt at this time.
All the passengers we have talked to, though, I can say, by and large, have told us unanimously that they are thrilled to know that there are Guardsmen walking around who are armed, and that's a big change over a few -- probably a month ago, when the president sent -- said that the National Guard would come out. But people here are thrilled. They say that they feel safe. Wolf?
BLITZER: Thelma Gutierrez at LAX. Thank you very much. And up next, America's propaganda war, trying to win friends and influence people overseas. Also, on the news wire, health problems for a former Beatle.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Finding it hard to rally popular support overseas for America's new war, especially in Islamic countries, the Bush administration is turning to Madison Avenue to punch up its message.
CNN's State Department correspondent Andrea Koppel now on the U.S. sales pitch.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHARLOTTE BEERS, STATE DEPARTMENT UNDERSECRETARY FOR PUBLIC DIPLOMACY: Here is a sales curve any corporation would envy.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If the lingo sounds more Madison Avenue than dry diplomatese, that's no accident. Madison Avenue is where Charlotte Beers made her rep.
ANNOUNCER: At Uncle Ben's, we know the secret to a great recipe.
KOPPEL: The new head of the State Department's propaganda war used to sell Uncle Ben's, and was the former chairman of two top 10 worldwide ad agencies.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, guess what? She got me to buy Uncle Ben's rice. And so there's nothing wrong with getting somebody who knows how to sell something.
KOPPEL: Today Beers is directing a very different ad campaign for a very different client: the U.S. government. The intended consumer? Millions of Muslims and Arabs living overseas. And so the campaign was unveiled at the foreign press center, where many international journalists work.
BEERS: We know that in many of the countries where our messages are sent that often they are distorted.
KOPPEL: This is the image Beers is hoping to counter. To promote its own message...
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I'm delighted to be here on al Jazeera. I know that...
KOPPEL: ... the State Department has done interviews with the Arab media and has enhanced its Web site to include an explanation in dozens of languages what happened September 11th, what U.S. policy is, and what the U.S. is doing to help the Afghan people.
KOPPEL: But one message Beers and others will have trouble countering is a State Department decision to encourage a 20-day waiting period for a U.S. visa so that the FBI can conduct more thorough background checks. At the moment, only men from mostly Muslim countries will be affected.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Al Jazeera.
KOPPEL: At the Washington office of al Jazeera, an Arab-owned satellite TV network, its bureau chief says the U.S. message is not likely to resonate with his audience.
HAFEZ AL-MIRAZI, AL JAZEERA: You are starting from the -- the position of, I don't care what do they think about my policy. What I care about is that to convince them of that policy. And it's very strange. KOPPEL: Al-Marazi says the U.S. propaganda war is old news. His story this night, the 20-day waiting period for U.S. visas.
Andrea Koppel, CNN, at the State Department.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: A presidential call for a corps of volunteers. How do you motivate, organize and train the masses? Senator Evan Bayh has got a plan. We will talk to him next. But first, more stories making today's news wire.
Two newspapers in New York are reporting that former Beatle George Harrison has received experimental cancer treatment there. The 58-year-old Harrison was diagnosed with lung cancer and a brain tumor this year. Staten Island University Hospital would not say whether Harrison was in fact a patient.
Ken Kesey, an icon of the 1960s counter culture, is in critical condition after having a liver tumor removed. Kesey wrote the bestseller "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest." He was one of the Merry Pranksters, whose cross-country bus trip inspired Tom Wolfe's famous novel, "The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test."
Cuba wants the United States to suspend embargoes against it in the aftermath of Hurricane Michelle. Havana says it wants to buy supplies directly and pick them up in Cuban vessels. The request came as a response to a U.S. offer of humanitarian aid. Hurricane Michelle killed five people and caused extensive damage throughout Cuba earlier this week.
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BLITZER: Welcome back. Last night many of us heard President Bush's call for Americans to volunteer. Legislation unveiled this week is designed to make it easier to do just that. Joining me, Senator Evan Bayh of Indiana along with Senator John McCain, who sponsored the so-called "Call to Service Act." Senator Bayh, thanks for joining us.
SEN. EVAN BAYH (D), INDIANA: You're welcome.
BLITZER: And very briefly, give us the headline, what your -- what your proposal would entail.
BAYH: Wolf, we hope to tap into the incredible well spring of patriotism and civic responsibility here and channel it in very productive ways.
Specifically, we want to expand the AmeriCorps program five fold, from 50,000 to 250,000 young people every year volunteering their service to America.
We want to expand work study in the colleges to get America's best and brightest doing community service. Reach out to senior citizens, getting them involved. They have so much experience. They are living longer, healthier lives, putting something back. And creating a new military -- military track, Wolf, which would allow people to enlist for a shorter period of time, but also serve longer in the reserves and get $18,000 at the end of their service for college education, home mortgage, that kind of thing.
BLITZER: So a quarter of a million volunteers. How much is this going to cost?
BAYH: Well, it will cost over -- I think in the tenth year -- , over ten years -- about $3.2 billion. But I want to emphasize, I think we can actually save the taxpayers money. And here is why.
Half of the new volunteers will be devoted to homeland defense. All the new security provisions, civil defense provisions that have just come to light since the events of September the 11th. So we are going to request Tom Ridge to specify those -- those jobs that can be done, those functions that can be fulfilled by trained volunteers, and in that way actually save the taxpayers money.
BLITZER: You heard what the president said last night about the importance of volunteering, especially right now. How does your proposal fit into his vision?
BAYH: Well, we put flesh and bones on his -- on his suggestion in very concrete ways. The people all over America I have heard -- people say, what can I do? How can I help? Well, our response is here's how.
And we've got strong bipartisan support, as you know. Bill Clinton started this initiative, fought off attacks to end it. Now John McCain is picking up the torch. George Bush -- President Bush has said positive things. So we take his general call to service and volunteer and give it flesh and bones so that people can actually do some things.
BLITZER: There are a lot of people who would like to volunteer, whether for emergency services, law enforcement, military, hospitals, health care, whatever. But they need some training. Would your initiative help them learn how to be good volunteers with specific expertise?
BAYH: It would. The AmeriCorps program, of course, those are 50 -- currently there are 50,000 young people volunteering a full year of their time. They do get training in their particular areas of endeavor. So the additional 200,000 would receive that. The college students, depending on what they were doing, same thing. Clearly if there is a civil defense security component, they are going to need -- need some training, and they will receive that.
BLITZER: Is there anybody who opposes this idea that you and Senator McCain have?
BAYH: Well, as I mentioned, after President Clinton founded it, there were some who tried to do away with it. But I think now, Wolf, this is an idea perfectly suited to the tenor of the times. So I think we will have strong bipartisan support and, interestingly, strong ideological support. Liberals and conservatives fight, but they can agree on public service.
BLITZER: And you have members in the House who are willing to pick up the legislation there?
BAYH: We do. We have cosponsors now. We introduced it with Congressman Ford, Democrat from Tennessee and former coach, now Congressman Osborne, Republican for Nebraska.
BLITZER: Senator Bayh, good luck to you.
BAYH: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much. And it's been said that old soldiers just fade away. Not this guy. Honored for his heroism 83 years ago. This is an amazing story, and we'll tell you all about it when we come back.
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BLITZER: Let's take a step back in time now to another war. At most there are some 2500 World War I veterans in the United States. This week, one of them was honored for bravery he showed on the battlefield 83 years ago. CNN's Jeff Flock has this truly incredible story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEFF FLOCK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Gus Streeter smokes four cigars a day...
GUS STREETER, WORLD WAR I VETERAN: I love cigars.
FLOCK: ... drinks the occasional scotch, though this is just water...
STREETER: I've tasted better things at hand.
FLOCK: ... and has made it to...
STREETER: 105. That's a long time to live.
FLOCK: And a long time to wait.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Attention to orders. The Purple Heart award is made by order of the Secretary of the Army for wounds received on October 24th, 1918.
FLOCK: France, World War I: 22-year-old artillery gunner bloodied with shrapnel, but keeps his wounds a secret for fear he'll have to leave his company.
STREETER: I would be discharged from the hospital, wounded in action, and get a discharge. That isn't what I was looking for.
FLOCK: Gus Streeter was looking to stay and fight, so he did, using his pharmacy training to treat himself. But no official wounds meant no Purple Heart.
JERRY KEEFER: He was penalized, in a sense, for -- for doing the right thing.
FLOCK: Jerry Keefer heard Gus's story at the Little Sisters of the Poor retirement home in Indianapolis and started a campaign. Using Streeter's war mementos as evidence -- he showed Streeter's old dog tags, bayonets, hand grenade, and his crumbling discharge papers -- Keefer built a case. A doctor was even brought in to examine Streeter's wounds to find evidence of shrapnel.
Finally, the Army agreed, and he's been literally counting the days until becoming the oldest Purple Heart recipient in history.
STREETER: I found that America also cares for me.
FLOCK: Gus Streeter is now deaf from the war and age, which means you talk to him by writing on a marker board. In his tiny room surrounded by mementos and pictures of the wife and son and friends he outlived, I asked what he has to say to the soldiers of today.
STREETER: Do your job and do it well, and see to it that we never have to do it again.
FLOCK: The same advice he got going to war 83 years ago. Now, Purple Heart at last on his chest, he has only one other wish.
STREETER: Peace. Peace on Earth. Yes, I wish there was peace on Earth.
FLOCK: A man honored for his heroism in war, who most treasures peace.
I'm Jeff Flock, CNN, Indianapolis.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Good work, Gus. We all want peace on Earth. Thanks, Jeff Flock.
And I will be back in one hour to examine Northern Alliance claims it's taken the strategic town of Mazar-e Sharif. Among my guests, the Northern Alliance representative here in Washington, Haron Amin. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. CNN's coverage of America's new war continues with "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE." That begins right now.
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