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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Was a Top Al Qaeda Leader Killed in a U.S. Air Strike?; Did the Taliban Decide to Give Up Kandahar?; Does Al Qaeda Have Nuclear Capabilities?
Aired November 16, 2001 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Today on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: "America Strikes Back." Was a top Al Qaeda leader killed in a U.S. air strike?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REAR ADM. JOHN STUFFLEBEEM, JOINT STAFF DEPUTY OPS. DIRECTOR: Osama bin Laden no longer has a principal assistant that he has been counting on for developing military or terrorist operations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: And where is bin Laden?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I suspect still in the country and needless to say, if we knew whereabouts we would have him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Have the Taliban decided to give up their main stronghold of Kandahar? What do documents found in Kabul reveal about a possible Al Qaeda nuclear threat?
And what happens when U.S. special operations forces go up against Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters? We'll go to Afghanistan and the Pentagon, as "America Strikes Back".
A sea of passengers outside one of the world's busiest airports. On the very day Congress passes an airline security bill, a security breach triggers airline delays throughout the United States.
Hello from Washington, I'm Wolf Blitzer. We have major news at home and abroad to bring you this hour, including reports that one of the two top officials behind Osama bin Laden is dead.
First, here's Donna Kelley in Atlanta with a quick check of the latest developments -- Donna.
DONNA KELLEY, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, thanks very much. And hello to you once again. United States officials say that a top aide to Osama bin Laden appears to have died during a U.S. air strike. Muhammad Atef had been considered to be bin Laden's military chief and chosen successor.
This year the two appeared together at the wedding of Atef's daughter to one of bin Laden's sons. Atef is on a list of the FBI's most wanted terrorists, for alleged involvement in the embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania. And we'll have more in a moment on his possible death in Afghanistan.
An Afghan official says the Taliban are considering fleeing their southern stronghold of Kandahar. The official says that the Taliban's supreme commander is negotiating with local militias to surrender control of the city. The Pentagon reacted with skepticism, a spokesman saying that Kandahar remains what he called a hostile environment.
Also today, the Pentagon said that the Taliban have lost control of 2/3 of Afghanistan. It was one week ago today, you might remember, that the Taliban suffered their first major defeat in Mazar-e Sharif, in the far north.
With the first glimpse of the crescent moon by clerics in Saudi Arabia, Muslims worldwide are celebrating Ramadan. Despite pressure from Muslim allies, the United States says it will not stand down in Afghanistan during the Muslim holy month. Yesterday, President Bush issued greetings to Muslims around the world.
A security breach at Atlanta's Hartsfield Airport has made it a miserable Friday to fly. Just before noon, officials halted departures and domestic arrivals, as police and the National Guard searched for a man who rushed past security guards. The man was still at large when the airport reopened an hour-and-a-half ago. The ongoing tie-up at one of the nation's busiest airports is causing a ripple effect at airports in cities across the country.
And the federal government has ordered immediate tail assembly inspections of all Airbus A-310s and certain Airbus A-300s. The order follows Monday's crash in New York of American Airlines flight 587. The tail of the plane sheared off, landed in the water, far from most of the rest of the wreckage.
Be back shortly. Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Thanks, Donna. If the reports are true, the United States has gotten very close to Osama bin Laden, and dealt his terror organization a major blow. Two things to note about Mohammed Atef: As the military chief of Al Qaeda, he may have had a hand in the events of September 11th. And as bin Laden's chief protector, his reported death could mean that bin Laden's situation is becoming more dire.
As the Pentagon puts it...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STUFFLEBEEM: That describes to me an environment where that individual is now going to feel much less secure about where he is, what may happen to him next. And then looking at it from my perspective, I see that as one notch closer of this noose tightening.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Short of confirming the death of Mohammed Atef, officials describe the reports he was killed as -- quote -- "credible and authoritative." In a moment, we'll look deeper at what the reported death could mean.
First, CNN's Mike Boettcher.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIKE BOETTCHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He is he third man. The man seen alongside Osama bin Laden and Ayman Al-Zawahiri. Like them, he is wanted by the U.S. government, indicted for his role in the 1998 embassy bombings. And, like them, he is believed to be directly behind the September 11th attacks.
Little is known about Mohammed Atef. Like bin Laden, he's tall. One of his many aliases includes the Arabic term al Khabir, "the big guy." He holds an Egyptian passport, was once a policeman there. How he went from that to being military commander of Al Qaeda is something of a mystery.
PROF. MAGNUS RANSTORP, UNIVERSITY OF ST. ANDREWS: He was really no one. And he was propelled into someone who was of tremendous importance in the organization, as the head of the military command, military operations, for the organization.
BOETTCHER: At some point during the 1980s, Atef went from Egypt to Afghanistan, where he met Osama bin Laden, then fighting against the Soviet occupation. This man, Jamal al-Fadl, testified recently that Atef was one of the founding members of Al Qaeda, along with bin Laden and Abu Ubaida el Banshiri.
El Banshiri was actually military commander, but when he drowned in a 1996 ferry accident, Atef took over. Even before then, al-Fadl testified, Atef was in Somalia helping warlords like Mohammed Aideed train men to fight against the American troops there.
According to Al-Fadl, Atef said, "Everything happening in Somalia, it's our responsibility." In an interview with CNN, Osama bin Laden claimed credit for helping in the Somali attack on U.S. Army Rangers in 1993, that killed 18 of the Rangers.
Testimony also linked Atef to the embassy bombing in Kenya, placing him there as early as 1993, five years before the bombings. Atef helped set up cells in east Africa, and then communicated with operatives for the next five years, according to wiretaps and phone records.
Months before the embassy bombings in 1998, Atef surfaced publicly. He was at bin Laden's side during a press conference announcing a fatwa against the U.S. The truest sign of Mohammed Atef's importance to Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda comes from this video taken this January in Kandahar, when Atef's daughter marries one of bin Laden's sons.
RANSTORP: There are few that bin Laden can trust in bringing in, in terms of family. But it serves to reinforce loyalty. And it creates an intricate web in which he can then insulate any defections.
BOETTCHER: In the two most recent videos of bin Laden, Atef is also visible, showing his central role in Al Qaeda's high command. U.S. intelligence sources believe it was Atef, along with Ayman Al- Zawahiri, who did the actual planning of the attacks on New York and Washington.
(on camera): If the news about Atef is verified, then it is a big blow to Al Qaeda. Coalition intelligence sources who have studied the organization say Atef could well have been the successor to Osama bin Laden.
Mike Boettcher, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Let's get some additional perspective on the death of Mohammed Atef. I'm joined now by CNN terrorism analyst, Peter Bergen. He's also the author of the new bestseller, "Holy War, Inc," story of Osama bin Laden. What's your take on this news, Peter?
PETER BERGEN, AUTHOR, "HOLY WAR, INC.": Well, I think the death of Mohammed Atef must be a blow. A, bin Laden has known Atef since, I believe, 1983. They've been cooperating closely. Atef had a role in the attack against American servicemen in Mogadishu in 1993. Atef played a role in the embassy bombing attacks, you know, the military commander.
I don't think he's -- Ayman Al-Zawahiri, who's the No. 2 in the organization, is even perhaps closer to bin Laden, even more important. But nonetheless, this is the No. 3 person in the organization. Effectively, the military commander, somebody who bin Laden is close to.
BLITZER: I want to put up on our screen a picture we have, a still photo of the four of them. Of course our viewers will recognize Osama bin Laden is right over here. Next to Osama bin Laden, to his -- to our right, over here, is Al-Zawahiri.
BERGEN: Right.
BLITZER: And then this is Mohammed Atef right here. And this is the No. 4, the Kuwaiti, Abu Rath (ph). These are the four principal senior officials of Al Qaeda.
BERGEN: The person you mentioned as No. 4, he kind of came out of nowhere. Just recently he suddenly took a more important role. He's a former Kuwaiti schoolteacher. But I think those three men, Ayman Al-Zawahiri, Mohammed Atef, Osama bin Laden, they've worked together since the early '80s. The death of one of them must be a blow to the two others.
BLITZER: And it's interesting, we have a Kuwaiti here, a Saudi here, an Egyptian, an Egyptian here. I don't see any Afghans in the top leadership of Al Qaeda. Is that real?
BERGEN: Yes, well, you know, funny enough, in the years I spent reporting this, I never came across an Afghan name or any Afghans as being part of the organization. They're all Middle Easterners of one kind or another, the top level.
BLITZER: So what's your assessment? If, in fact, Mohammed Atef is dead right now, what does that mean for Osama bin Laden and his Al Qaeda organization?
BERGEN: Well, clearly, you know, I mean the end is nigh. The question is when. Is it going to be tomorrow or much later? I think the problem with the whole notion of -- we think in conventional terms, of winning a victory in a conventional sense. I -- with bin Laden and the people around him, I think they decided to die in a final conflict anyway.
BLITZER: So they are ready to meet their fate. You don't think they're going to want to be taken alive.
BERGEN: I think they will all want to martyr themselves.
BLITZER: Is there a sense that they always used to travel together, or were they separated? Because the assessment is if they got Mohammed Atef, Osama bin Laden couldn't have been very far away.
BERGEN: Speaking from personal experience, when we met with bin Laden in 1997 to do the interview with him for CNN, Atef wasn't in picture and nor was Ayman Al-Zawahiri. So they obviously do, historically, travel independently.
BLITZER: But in more recent years, you would think that the top leadership might be together more often, especially if they're coordinating plotting, seeking to protect each other, if you will.
BERGEN: Well, certainly the videotapes we've seen recently, Atef and Ayman Al-Zawahiri have always been in the picture. But I mean, this is the point of view of a security measure. It would seem that they'd want to split up at this point.
BLITZER: This could demoralize the entire organization, if Atef is dead, as we're reporting.
BERGEN: I'm sure, yes, Wolf.
BLITZER: Peter Bergen, CNN terrorism analyst, the author of the new book, "Holy War, Inc." Thanks for joining us. Congratulations with all the success of the book.
BERGEN: Thank you.
BLITZER: Thank you. And as we reported, the Pentagon is not confirming the death of Mohammed Atef, but in vague pronouncements, officials are hinting at how he might have met his fate, and why they believe he may be dead. With more on that, let's go live to the Pentagon.
Once again, CNN military affairs correspondent, Jamie McIntyre. Jamie, tell us what they're saying at the Pentagon.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, they do believe the reports are correct, that Mohammed Atef is dead. However, they make the point of saying they simply cannot confirm that. They don't have 100 percent proof, but the reports they're getting, they believe are credible.
As for how it happened, the United States, all this week, has been targeting so-called leadership targets -- buildings in which top Taliban or Al Qaeda leadership were suspected of gathering. In fact, they believe they hit several of those earlier this week.
But this, the death of Atef, if it turns out correct, apparently occurred in a separate strike. If it happened, it occurred in a separate strike earlier this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STUFFLEBEEM: One of the command-and-control targets that was known to be Taliban and Al Qaeda was struck by coalition forces. It appears that in intelligence reports picking up discussions after one of these attacks -- this where is this report generated from, that it appeared that Mohammed Atef was killed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: Now, in a trip to Chicago today, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said that the United States isn't letting up on its search for bin Laden and key Al Qaeda and Taliban leaders. In fact, he said -- he made the clearest statement yet, that some of those troops on the ground are engaged in direct ground combat, saying that they were killing the Taliban when they didn't surrender and Al Qaeda forces that were trying to move from one place to another.
At the Pentagon, though, they said the primary mission of those forces is to gather intelligence, as the U.S. tries to tighten the noose on Osama bin Laden -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jamie, Kandahar, the stronghold of the Taliban in the southern part of the country, conflicting reports of precisely what's happening there right now. What are they saying at the Pentagon about Kandahar?
MCINTYRE: Well you know, there were reports coming out of there that the Taliban leader, Mohammed Omar, was preparing to make some sort of arrangement or cut a deal where he would leave his former stronghold. The Pentagon says they're not putting much stock in those reports. They say the city of Kandahar, which has really been the heart and soul of the Taliban control in Afghanistan, is still not in opposition hands. And the Pentagon has been taking a very cautious approach all along to the reports of success from the ground, not claiming those success until they were very clear that they had been achieved.
BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon, thanks, once again.
Let's bring in our CNN military analyst, the retired General Wesley Clark. General Clark, I want to put up on the screen a map showing where Kandahar is, and what's been going on over this past week.
Let's go to the map right now. Of course, up here in north, all this area, basically, the Pentagon says 2/3 of Afghanistan now in the hands of friendly forces. But down here, Kandahar, the stronghold of the Taliban, apparently still in control of the Taliban. What is it going to take to get the job done throughout the rest of the country?
GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I think we have to first figure out exactly what the job is, and I think the Pentagon has been very clear that what they're after is Al Qaeda. They've disrupted the Taliban's grip on the country, and it's clear the regime has paid a price.
Whether they finish the job on the Taliban, or not, will depend on how accessible Al Qaeda is. And so what's going on right now is a search through a treasure trove of intelligence, documents that have been captured, conversations, defectors. Everything is coming out in the open right now. And so there's just a grab-bag full, and they've got to get the most important intelligence. And they've got to act on it quickly.
It may be that the special forces troops will be on the roads and they may stop one of these parties. Maybe they'll fire artillery on vehicles, or bring in air on vehicles and take out some of the key leadership. They may see them heading up to the hills.
Or it may be that the situation in Kandahar gradually toughens up, as the Taliban fight to take control and we figure out that Al Qaeda, after all, is still embedded in Kandahar, in which case, it's a different type of operation, and a difficult urban operation.
BLITZER: General Clark, you speak about U.S. special operations forces. We saw a remarkable picture released by the Pentagon today. I want to put it up on our screen. Take a look at this. Men on horseback -- these are not Afghans. Some of them are U.S. special operations forces, those right there. When was the last time you saw U.S. military personnel in combat on horseback?
CLARK: Well, in the first Calvary division we had 53 horses. And we haven't had them in combat in a long time. These guys must have had some good preparatory training before they undertook that charge, because that's a tough mission. BLITZER: And the mission in the south, the southern part of Afghanistan, as you well know, is different than in the north. In the north, the U.S. have the Northern Alliance coalition partners, the rebels who obviously managed to get the job done, with extensive U.S. backing -- a lot of air power, of course, from the United States.
In the south, the U.S. is looking for a Northern Alliance type of rebellion to go on, but so far it doesn't appear to have materialized the way it materialized in the north.
CLARK: No, we always knew this was going to be tougher in the south, because the tribal makeup of the groups down there. But, as one side starts to lose in Afghanistan, traditionally people get off that losing side and they switch sides.
And as the special operations forces stay in there and air power grinds away at them, I predict there will be more defections and the Taliban will be whittled down to a smaller and smaller core. At some point they're going to decide that the position in Kandahar itself is no longer tenable.
BLITZER: General Wesley Clark, once again, thank you very much for your insight. And more now on Kandahar, and how it became the Taliban stronghold. Let's go once again to CNN's Donna Kelly. She's in the CNN map room in Atlanta -- Donna.
KELLEY: You bet. Thanks, Wolf. We are up a couple of floors in the giant map room. And we found out that Kandahar means "the necklace of candy." It's the second-largest city in Afghanistan. And you know that Alexander the Great built it in the fourth century.
Over the past few years, Kandahar has been, of course, the Taliban's greatest stronghold. It has been the home to spiritual leader Mullah Mohammed Omar, who -- some reports say, as you just heard, including our Jamie McIntyre -- has been trying to maybe negotiate his way out of the city and leave it in the hands of tribal Pashtun leaders.
It was one of the first operating areas of Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda group. And then Kandahar was the first major city that the Taliban took when they were coming to power. And now, of course, it appears that it may be the last one within its grips.
Kandahar is actually on a plain. It's about 440 kilometers southwest of Kabul, which is the capital. And then the route from Kabul to Kandahar was described to us as the "ultimate rodeo." Do you know that it's a 16-hour trek by car?
If you look, we can show you that in the south in Kandahar, it's absolutely desert. That used to be a real good place to hide out. Really nothing else there but the desert. But now of course, new technology. We've got satellites, high-tech weapons. And so it would be pretty hard now to hide out there, a better place to be found rather than that.
Considered an ideal place though, in the north, with the caves and mountains, as you look up above. Because north of Kandahar, they have the rugged central mountains -- hard to get in and around there, with the caves everywhere. We told you about caves earlier this afternoon here on CNN, went a little bit more in depth into how those are configured.
Past tactics, if those are any indication, Taliban probably intend to disappear into these mountains and caves. And if that's their strategy, pretty tough to find them. But as we heard from Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld today, U.S. special operations forces are seeing ground action, and they have been targeting Taliban troops and Al Qaeda members who are not surrendering.
Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Donna. Very informative.
And let's go now live to Kabul. Our Matthew Chance is standing by with the latest details from the Afghan capital. Matthew, what is happening there right now?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's extremely calm here tonight in the Afghan capital. As you can see, it's extremely dark here. Darkness has fallen, and it's nighttime. There's not much tension on the streets. We haven't been seeing much in the five days since Kabul was captured by the opposition Northern Alliance.
Northern Alliance troops have been deployed in force here in the capital, really imposing their security, here. Very mindful of the concerns that many residents of Kabul have: that of course, the last time the Northern Alliance (UNINTELLIGIBLE) several years ago before the Taliban took over, this city was devastated by bitter ethnic infighting that literally killed thousands of people in the years before the Taliban took over.
So, the Northern Alliance says they're very mindful of those concerns, and they're doing their very best to impose the kind of security they feel the city needs -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And is there a sense in Kabul that the Taliban's days are now numbered, given the dramatic successes of the Northern Alliance, backed by the United States, over the past weeks, since Mazar-e Sharif was taken, exactly one week ago?
CHANCE: Certainly. I think that the belief of many people -- in Kabul at least, that we've been speaking to -- they, of course, have been witnessing these dramatic losses on the part of the Taliban. Mazar-e Sharif, as you mentioned there, in the north of the country, Herat in the west. Most dramatically of all, of course, the Afghan capital itself.
Now, most people here believe the Taliban's days are numbered, if not already really over. Later reports, of course, as we've been mentioning throughout this program. Kandahar, the main stronghold of the Taliban in the southwest of here -- reports from there that Mullah Mohammed Omar, the one-eyed reclusive leader of the Taliban, is now trying to negotiate his way out of that city and hand it over to another prominent Pashtun tribal leader there -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Matthew, some U.S. officials have expressed some concern. I know a lot of Pakistanis have expressed concern that the Northern Alliance seems to be acting as if it's the new government, taking over government buildings in Kabul, the foreign ministry, other ministries. Is that what exactly is happening in Kabul?
CHANCE: Well, certainly, one of the big concerns of the Northern Alliance is that they did not want to see any kind of power vacuum here in Kabul, or in other parts of the country where the Taliban left. They did commit, obviously, before entering Kabul, that they would not do that to the United States, their coalition, and to the international community at large, before that political agreement was on the table that brought together a broad-based political ethnic agreement for a power sharing future government of Afghanistan.
In the event though, of course, they say the Taliban left so quickly, they had no choice but to come in as quickly as they could. What they've done though, Wolf, is create new facts on the ground. They are still committed, they say, to a political agreement, but it will be on their terms.
BLITZER: Matthew Chance in Kabul, thanks once again. And the former CIA director, James Woolsey, joins me in the war room tonight, 7:00 p.m. Eastern, 4:00 Pacific, to assess today's developments in "America's New War." You can participate, by the way, by going to my Web site, cnn.com/wolf. Click on "send questions." I'll try to get those questions to our panel in the war room. By the way, that's also where you can read my daily on-line column.
And what was Al Qaeda planning before they fled? Documents found in a Kabul safe house could provide leads. CNN's Christiane Amanpour will report on that this hour.
Up next, how one airport security breach grounds Friday fliers nationwide.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. It's been a nightmarish day for thousands of air travelers as the peak holiday season got under way. Atlanta's Hartsfield International, one of the countries busiest airports, was evacuated after a security breach. CNN's Natalie Pawelski joins us now live from Hartsfield with all details -- Natalie.
NATALIE PAWELSKI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it was a surreal sight here today at Atlanta Hartsfield Airport. It started around noon, when a man got past a couple of security guards, ran down an up escalator, and got into the secure part of the airport. Now, they have no evidence that the man had a bomb or any other kind of weapon, but because he had breached security without being screened, they had to shut down the airport and evacuate everyone.
So you had thousands of people -- an estimated 10,000 people, parked outside of Hartsfield Airport, unsure of what was going on and eager to get back on their way. Airport officials say that they got good cooperation from most of the people. And the people we talked to said that they were a little bit frustrated, but that it was also understandable.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, we're all going to be late for whatever it is we're doing, but I said earlier, everybody said oh, yeah, that's a great thing -- better late than dead, is what I say! So I'm totally OK with it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAWELSKI: Officials as yet have not caught the man who breached security. In the last hour or so we've seen perhaps a dozen flights take off. And the crowds outside the airport have dissipated. Officials are telling us it will probably be until tomorrow until the flights are flying as scheduled once again -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Natalie, very briefly, they haven't caught the individual, they haven't caught the man. Do they suspect he's still somewhere within the airport?
PAWELSKI: Most of the security officers I talked to figure that he probably melted out with the evacuating crowd. You had 10,000 people trying to get out of this airport, and here was a man in jeans and a white shirt. He could have easily slipped away.
BLITZER: Natalie Pawelski in Atlanta at Hartsfield International. Thank you very much.
More trouble for the nation's largest airport security firm -- the agency that runs Boston's Logan Airport announced today it is suspending the license of Argenbright Security, citing two security breaches since September 11th. CNN's Ann Kellan joins us now live from Logan Airport with the story -- Ann.
ANN KELLAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Argenbright does security checks for four airlines here, Delta Airlines, Delta Shuttle, America West and USAirways. Basically the state police here say that they have within 10 days to leave here. It does not trust the company to protect the flying public.
Argenbright does have a chance to appeal this ruling, which it will do November 30th, but issued this statement. "Basically, we are concerned that this decision would put our airline partners in the terribly difficult position of considering a disruptive security transition during one of the busiest travel weeks of the year. Col. DiFava's," who is Logan Airport's interim security chief's, "announcement creates a potentially chaotic situation at Logan International and other aviation and commercial facilities across the state."
Now, in talking to passengers, they were concerned that Argenbright is still being allowed to check passengers as they're going through the metal detectors. But we have been assured by the state police that they are going to be increasing security at these checkpoints, to make sure that there are no further breaches.
BLITZER: Ann Kellan, at Logan Airport in Boston, thanks very much.
Today's developments at Logan and Hartsfield airports came the same day the U.S. Congress passed the airport security bill, after weeks of bitter negotiations occasionally. The Senate and the House passed the compromise package today. President Bush is expected to sign it Monday.
During a one-year transition period, screeners will become federal employees. They must be U.S. citizens. Screeners will undergo criminal background checks. And all checked baggage will be screened.
Will the passage of the airline security bill reassure consumers that enough is being done? And what effect will the crash of flight 587 have on passengers who might already have the jitters?
Michael Boyd is president of an aviation consulting firm. He joins us now live with his perspective on the crisis in the airline industry. I think it is fair to say, Michael, that there is a crisis. But what effect do you believe passage of this new legislation, signing it into law, will have on fliers around the United States?
MICHAEL BOYD, PRESIDENT, THE BOYD GROUP: Very little. This bill does not do much. There's not a lot of meat to this bill. There's a lot of PR to it, but there's nothing in it that Norman Mineta, the secretary, couldn't have done on September 12.
Having federal screeners that get a ripsnorting 40 hours of training doesn't make me feel real secure. So what happened in Atlanta today -- remember, that happened under the FAA's new enhanced security. I'm not real confident that this is going to improve anything.
BLITZER: Well, what about the air marshals that are going to be aboard the flights, the reinforced doors into the cockpits, screening all of the baggage -- the checked baggage -- as well as the handheld baggage? That -- that seems like pretty significant stuff.
BOYD: It sounds wonderful. The problem is, first of all, the doors have all been strengthened. That was done before this bill was passed. The airlines went ahead and did that.
Sky marshals is something that is already in place and should be -- should keep on being done. Screening of all checked luggage -- the public is being bamboozled by that, because the equipment is not there to do it yet. And the chosen equipment by the FAA is not particularly reliable and not particularly something that I'd want to put my life in.
So just mandating it by Congress is one thing. Getting it done is something else. Remember, it's the FAA that is doing it and it's the FAA that is already two years behind in putting out security screener qualifications. I'm not real confident in this. BLITZER: Well, very briefly, what do you want -- what else do you want the U.S. government to do?
BOYD: Well, what we want is accountability from the Department of Transportation. Number one, putting the same people in charge who had this enhanced security that helped get Hartsfield shut down today is wrong. We need professional security, trained people, to handle the screening checkpoints.
And we need someone other than the Department of Transportation over it. That is our problem. The people who were responsible for overall security on September 11 are still there, and there hasn't been any question to Jane Garvey of why did this happen.
Look at Argenbright. They should have been fired the first day. Only now in Boston do they want to get rid of them.
BLITZER: Which -- which U.S. airlines do you think are -- are in trouble? Which ones might not survive this current crisis?
BOYD: Well, Wolf, I -- I would say there is a number of them, but US Airways certainly has some challenges because of Reagan National being shut down. I -- I'll put it this way. There are all kind of on the Titanic, just some are on higher decks.
BLITZER: Well, Reagan National is back open now. Shouldn't that help us airways?
BOYD: It should help, but it's not open completely. That is a big chunk of their revenue, so that is still going to hurt.
Overall, take a look at what we have done in response to these security threats of 9-11. We have taken tweezers away from people and put -- put armed guards standing there watching Argenbright let guns go through. This is the FAA and DOT that mandated these things. I am very concerned going forward. I don't have this rah-rah attitude that a lot of the folks on Capitol Hill do.
BLITZER: All right. Michael Boyd, thanks for your insight. We appreciate it.
BOYD: Thank you, sir.
BLITZER: And U.S. and French aviation officials have ordered airlines to inspect the tail fins of about 135 Airbus planes following Monday's crash of American airlines flight 587. Investigators examining the plane's wreckage are focusing closely on that section. They say the tail fin appears to have broken off the jet first, leaving it uncontrollable.
Meanwhile, new pictures of the crash site taken a few hours after the disaster have been released. All 260 people on board the plane and at least five people on the ground were killed.
An update -- an update on today's developments in America's new war is next, and an appreciation of freedom. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEATHER MERCER, AID WORKER: It's probably been the greatest terror of my life, but they have -- then it has also been the greatest privilege of my life. And there -- I would never trade it for the world, because I know coming out...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Hear from two aid workers on their three-month ordeal as Taliban captives. All of that when we come back.
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BLITZER: Want to know the prospects of a nuclear al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden? We'll have details on that shortly. But first, once again, Donna Kelley in Atlanta with a quick check of the latest developments. Donna?
KELLEY: You bet, Wolf. Thanks very much, and good afternoon to you. United States officials say that a top aide to Osama bin Laden appears to have died during a U.S. airstrike. Mohammed Atef had been considered to be bin Laden's military chief and chosen successor. He's on a list of the FBI's most wanted terrorists for alleged involvement in the embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania.
Also today, the Pentagon said that the Taliban have lost control of two-thirds of Afghanistan. It was one week ago today that -- you might remember -- the Taliban suffered their first major defeat in Mazar-e Sharif in the far north.
In Kabul today, a sign of the rapidly changing times. A beauty parlor open for business. With the Taliban gone, some women are showing their faces in public again and adding touches of makeup as well.
Muslims are celebrating Ramadan. The Muslim holy month began today. Despite pressure from Muslim allies, the United States says that it will not stand down in Afghanistan during Ramadan. Protests against the United States decision were staged today in U.S. ally of Pakistan.
In the United States, a security breach at Atlanta's Hartsfield made it a miserable Friday to fly. Just before noon, officials halted departures and domestic arrivals, as police and the National Guard searched for a man who rushed past security guards.
The man was still at large when the airport reopened an just about an hour-and-a-half or so ago. But they have a picture of him from a security camera, so hopefully that will help. The tie-up at one of the nation's busiest airports is causing a ripple effect at airports in cities across the country. Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Donna. Still to come, what fleeing forces left behind in Kabul. Christiane Amanpour and a sobering look at terrorist plots and plans for death and destruction. Stay with us.
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BLITZER: Welcome back. Taliban forces fleeing Kabul left behind piles of documents from the al Qaeda terrorist network. Their discovery is providing a disturbing glimpse into terrorist activity before and after the September 11th attacks.
CNN's Christiane Amanpour is in the Afghan capital with more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN SENIOR FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT: We've been scouring all sorts of homes in what used to be the diplomatic quarter of Kabul. Under the Taliban this quarter was handed over to many of the Arab guests, they called them, who came here to fight alongside them, and many of these Arabs were also linked with the al Qaeda network.
In some of these houses we found all sorts of documents, papers, letters and materials that indicate a very active interest in acquiring knowledge in all sorts of terrorist activities.
In one house we found this letter. It looks like a ragged piece of paper. But it is addressed to Abu Khabab (ph). Abu Khabab (ph) happens to be the name of one of Osama bin Laden's top lieutenants. He is also believed to be responsible for training in chemical and other kinds of weapons production.
This letter says, I am sending companions who are, quote, "eager to be trained in explosives or whatever else they want." It was signed January of the year 2001.
This group of papers is signed also and written here, it says "the biggest bomb." When you open this and look at these documents inside, all sorts of references which appear to be detailed research into nuclear weapon capability. We have references to uranium 235 and to TNT used in trying to make a nuclear bomb. We also have references in English to the words "nuclear bomb."
Another paragraph which says "how to make a nuclear bomb." Another document that we found here is a -- an 82-page manual. Again, what's written here is that is published by the al Qaeda World Committee for Recruitment and Training.
So an incredible number of possibly incriminating documents are being discovered in homes that have been abandon by these people as they left ahead of the fall of Kabul, as they left when the Taliban made their hasty retreat out of Kabul.
We also saw documents that showed how to make explosives, all kinds of explosives, and how bomb all manner of facilities from airplanes to bridges and towers, railways and ships and things.
We don't know exactly why these documents were left here in these houses. But we do know when the houses were vacated, residents in the neighborhood said that the occupants of these houses brought many vehicles, put a lot of equipment and information and material into those vehicles and left as quickly as they can. Perhaps these are the only things that they didn't have time to take.
I'm Christiane Amanpour, CNN, reporting from Kabul.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: While the United States does not believe Osama bin Laden has nuclear weapons, White House officials say there are quote, "credible indications" he has sought to obtain them. Joining us now for some insight into bin Laden's quest is Gary Milhollin of the Wisconsin Project, an anti-nuclear proliferation think tank here in Washington.
Gary, do you believe that Osama bin Laden and his al Qaeda network may have some sort of crude nuclear capability?
GARY MILHOLLIN, THE WISCONSIN PROJECT: I don't think they do. But it's one of those problems. You can't prove a negative, so you can't rule it out.
BLITZER: These documents that Christiane and our team in Kabul have now found,what do they say to you?
MILHOLLIN: They say to me that a have a person who is -- or a network that's committed to making these weapons and delivering them. And we know that we now are vulnerable, that is we know that -- that people can get things here who want to -- wan to injure us. We know that after September 11.
So what we're seeing is intent. What we're not seeing yet, I think, is capability.
BLITZER: You heard -- you heard the U.S. Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge say only yesterday that these kinds of documents you can pick up on the Internet and find a lot of this kind of stuff. Is that reassuring?
MILHOLLIN: Yes, it is reassuring. And it's true. If you just see a bunch of documents with scribbling on them, they're probably just downloaded from the Internet.
BLITZER: But a smart scientist -- a smart physicist from the Internet potentially could put something together, couldn't he?
MILHOLLIN: He could, but there's a lot of art in it, not just science. And you need facilities, you need experts, you need material, you need to test. You need a lot of things.
BLITZER: But I've heard you say that the material -- the so- called loose nukes -- the material could be smuggled, stolen out of the former Soviet Union. A lot of old scientists over there aren't getting paid. It may be -- they may be able, with the hundreds of millions of dollars that al Qaeda has, to buy that kind of material. MILHOLLIN: We know that al Qaeda has tried to buy nuclear weapon material in the past. And we know that they actually sent someone to Khartoum.
That person saw some -- what was supposed to be uranium 235 in a cylinder that was supposed to be from South Africa. On the other side, though, we know that South Africa got out of the nuclear business. So that seems to have been a scam.
But when you have somebody who's looking, who has contacts, who has money and who is just diabolically committed to hurting the United States, you have to worry about it.
BLITZER: The other documents that Christiane and her team found didn't necessarily only deal with nuclear capabilities but with chemical, biological as -- as well. Is it more realistic to assume that al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden have those capabilities?
MILHOLLIN: Those things, like nerve gas or -- or mustard gas, are a lot more available. And so it's going to be easier to get those. It's going to be easier to transport them. It's going to be easier to deploy them and use them. So you see, you never know where the next hit is coming from.
BLITZER: But to weaponize those kinds of chemical or biological agents you need a delivery system. Do they have that?
MILHOLLIN: You need a delivery system. They could deliver a small amount. The question is, can they deliver a large amount in a place that really hurts you? I don't think we know that.
We -- we know that they've worked -- we don't think they have nerve gas. We think they may -- may have some -- we -- phosgene (ph), we know they may have other things. But we don't think they have things that are really deadly and we don't think that they can deliver them.
BLITZER: So what's your worst-case nightmare scenario? A realistic one that you -- that bothers you every day.
MILHOLLIN: One of the ones that bothers me every day is that we are sending daily trains full of very toxic things through tunnels in cities.
There are lots of places where we're vulnerable, that don't require weapons of mass destruction and that only a few -- a few intelligently-placed high-explosive charges. That's what worries me. And I think that's the most realistic attack.
If we can extrapolate from the one that already happened, and they used systems that were already in place -- airplanes -- to in effect create weapons of mass destruction. And I -- that's what worries me the most.
BLITZER: OK. Gary Milhollin. Thanks for joining us.
MILHOLLIN: Thank you.
BLITZER: Thank you. And the latest from the CNN news wire up next, including the day's high water mark from Texas. Stay with us.
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BLITZER: Now to the news wires. The body of a fifth victim of yesterday's killer thunderstorm was pulled from the floodwaters in Central Texas today. Three people drowned when their vehicles were swept away by flash floods fed by rains of up to thirteen inches in parts of the state. A fourth person died in a weather-related crash. More rain is expected today.
Updating you on a story we broke yesterday at this hour, all three crew members survived the crash of a Navy warplane in Washington State's Olympic Peninsula. Two instructors and one student were on a routine training mission yesterday when their plane went down in fog. One crew member was injured, though, possibly sustaining a broken leg.
And astronomy buffs are in for a treat this weekend. The annual Leonid meteor showers are expected before dawn on Sunday. And atmospheric conditions are just right for perhaps one of the best shows in decades. Prime time for watching in the U.S. will likely be from 4:00 a.m. to 6:00 a.m., Eastern Standard Time. Get up and watch.
Let's go to New York now and get a preview of "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE, " which begins at the top of the hour. Lou, I know you are going to be up at 4:00 a.m. watching that meteor shower as well.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: With my wife and kids. You can count on it. It's supposed to be, as you say, just absolutely spectacular. So everybody should be looking up about four in the morning Sunday.
Well, coming up next on "MONEYLINE," we'll have the latest developments in America's new war. Major advances being made against the Taliban and the al Qaeda in investigation. One of the al Qaeda's top officials is reportedly dead. We'll have a live report for you from Kabul.
Atlanta's international airport has reopened after a man ran past security without being screened, forcing thousands of travelers to a halt.
Meanwhile, a security deal has been reached on Capitol Hill. We'll have the latest for you on that.
And what's in a name? Well, according to Philip Morris, a lot. The world's largest tobacco company is changing its name. I'll be talking with the CEO, Geoffrey Bible. All of that and more coming right up. Wolf Blitzer will be right back after this break.
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BLITZER: Western aid workers arrested on charges of preaching Christianity and imprisoned for three months in Afghanistan are finally speaking out about their ordeal. Here's their story in their own words.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
MERCER: The last three and a half months have probably been the greatest terror of my life, but they have also -- it has also been the greatest privilege of my life. And I would never trade it for the world, because I know coming out, not only am I changed but a nation has changed.
DAYNA CURRY, AID WORKER: I know at times we really didn't know if we were going to make it out alive. And -- but God would give us different promises, and people would send us letters and tell us they were praying for us. So we knew -- so many people were praying that God was going to get us out of there somehow.
And it really was a miracle and -- because especially at the very end, it didn't look like it was going to happen. I mean, it was -- our government did an incredible job and got us out of there safely.
MERCER: The first thing I saw was my dad with his jeans and his red, white and blue jacket going like this.
And I remember talking to my mom on the telephone one time once on a satellite conversation and she asked me if I had a pair of running shoes. And I said, why do I need a pair of running shoes? I hope I'm not making any great escape." And she said, "Well, because when you get off the plane I want you to run as fast as you can to us."
While we were in prison, the Taliban weren't saying this but the prisoners themselves said that they would pray five times a day that America would come in and rescue them.
So the people themselves want help. They wanted America to come in. They wanted to be -- their nation to be rescued from the regime that was over them.
CURRY: I don't have any animosity toward the Taliban at all. Even from the time that we were captured and the interrogations, I didn't have a reason to be angry with them. I felt like they were -- they were doing what they thought was their job.
MERCER: Now that we're free, we'll be able to see another nation be free. And that another day will come for Afghanistan.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
BLITZER: Good girls. I'll be back in one hour with the war room. Former CIA Director James Woolsey will be among those assessing today's developments on the ground in Afghanistan. And the national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, will be among my guests on special late edition, Sunday, noon Eastern, 9:00 a.m. Pacific.
I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. CNN's coverage of America's new war continues with "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE." That begins right now.
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