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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

U.S. Marines See Action Right Away

Aired November 26, 2001 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: THE WAR ROOM: U.S. Marines are on the ground in southern Afghanistan and waste no time in going into action. In the north, members of a special operations force are wounded during a bloody revolt by Taliban prisoners.

Is President Bush now taking aim at Iraq's Saddam Hussein?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He needs to let inspectors back in his country to show us that he is not developing weapons of mass destruction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: We'll go live to the White House, the Pentagon and Afghanistan.

Will the stepped-up hunt for Osama bin Laden mean more American casualties? What dangers lie ahead? I'll ask former assistant defense secretary Frank Gaffney, former special forces and CIA operations officer Michael Vickers and CNN military analyst, retired General David Grange, as we go into THE WAR ROOM.

Good evening. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting tonight from Washington.

The situation on the ground inside Afghanistan is changing rapidly. U.S. military strikes against Taliban and al Qaeda's targets, which began seven weeks ago, have now entered a new phase with the introduction of large numbers of U.S. ground combat forces.

President Bush today warned Americans the deployment of U.S. Marines to southern Afghanistan signals a dangerous period in the war against terrorism. He also issued a warning to Iraq, signaling, perhaps, a future widening of the war.

Let's go live to CNN senior White House correspondent John King. He's standing by at the White House with details -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And, Wolf, the president discussing the ongoing military campaign and perhaps his future thoughts during a question-and-answer session with reporters in the Rose Garden today. As you noted, on the one hand, the president said quite a dangerous period, warning the American people there are risks ahead for the U.S. troops in Afghanistan. But even as he raised that risk, the president clearly looking beyond Afghanistan.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BUSH: Obviously, no president or commander in chief hopes anybody loses life in the theater. But it's going to happen. I said this early on as the campaign began, America must be prepared for loss of life.

KING (voice-over): And, yet, Mr. Bush is clearly looking past Afghanistan to the war's next front and leaving little doubt Iraq is a potential target.

BUSH: If they develop weapons of mass destruction that will be use to terrorize nations, they will be held accountable. And as for Mr. Saddam Hussein, he needs to let inspectors back in his country to show us that he is not developing weapons of mass destruction.

KING: In this speech to Congress at the start of the campaign, Mr. Bush put terrorists and those who harbor terrorists on notice. But he did not list amassing weapons of mass destruction as grounds for U.S. military strikes.

BUSH: Have I expanded the definition? I have always had that definition as far as I'm concerned.

KING: Two key lawmakers, just back from the region, said focus should be on Afghanistan for now.

SEN. CARL LEVIN (D-MI), ARMED SERVICES CHAIRMAN: I think the more that we focus on other places, particularly if we get specific relative to that, the more challenging it will be to maintain the coalition.

KING: Mr. Bush himself said first things first. But his tough talk about Iraq reignited a debate that divides some top administration officials.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Several senior administration officials tonight saying they see no harm in keeping Saddam Hussein guessing about the administration's intentions. But one senior official saying the president's tough talk -- quote -- "doesn't help the cause of coalition building" -- Wolf.

BLITZER: John, as far as Iraq is concerned, take us behind the scenes. How is this debate shaping up inside the Bush administration?

KING: There are some in the administration, some of them veterans of the first Bush administration that fought the Persian Gulf War, who believe Saddam Hussein is already in violation of the cease- fire agreements he signed at the end of that war. Paul Wolfowitz, the No. 2 at the Defense Department, among those known as -- quote -- "the bombers" in senior administration circles. They advocate a very aggressive approach, say that no justification needs to be made. The history has proven Saddam Hussein harbors terrorists and is building up a program of weapons of mass destruction yet again.

There are others, though, who have to deal with the delicate diplomacy, the secretary of state chief among them. They argue let's focus on Afghanistan. Let's not risk alienating moderate Arab nations. Mr. Powell and others argue you can not bomb Iraq now unless you can draw a direct connection between Baghdad and the September 11 attacks. U.S. officials say they have no such evidence.

It is the Powell view that you deal with this campaign first and then if you want to go at Saddam Hussein, make a new case to the international community, beginning at the United Nations. The sanctions debate coming up again in the United Nations put a split in the administration. Some hawks say move from Afghanistan to Baghdad and others say you can't do that. You would you alienate the coalition the president has worked so hard to build and maintain -- Wolf.

BLITZER: John King at the White House, thank you very much.

Meanwhile, over in Afghanistan, the strategies of war are changing fast with the arrival of U.S. Marines near Kandahar.

CNN's Christiane Amanpour joins us now from Kabul with more on the latest movements on the ground -- Christiane.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, with Kabul and almost all the rest of northern Afghanistan now not under Taliban control, clearly the attempt and the effort is now focusing on the last remaining Taliban stronghold and their power base in Kandahar.

As you have been reporting, the United States confirming that 500 U.S. Marines, the first of a deployment of maybe 1,000 U.S. Marines, have landed in the Kandahar area at an airport. You've also been reporting, according to the U.S., that what they call an enemy convoy of armored vehicles was attacked. Central command apparently appears to be making a correction. At first, they had said U.S. Marine helicopter gunships had attacked that convoy of vehicles. Now they are saying Navy F-14 have done so.

CNN also hearing and indeed the British defense secretary announcing that perhaps British ground forces will join the fight for Kandahar. And we are also hearing that perhaps a decisive battle to try to finally flush out the Taliban from that last remaining stronghold is going to shape up in the not too distant future.

On another front, in Mazar-e-Sharif in northern Afghanistan, after that prison uprising on Sunday, that continued into Monday. And there were the so-called Pakistani, Chechen and Arab mercenaries with the Taliban who continue to resist in the big fortress there that is being used as a prison.

U.S. special forces and other U.S. intelligence personnel were seen calling in air strikes. One of those air strikes was seen going astray and five U.S. personnel were injured. U.S. officials saying that these five U.S. personnel were evacuated to Uzbekistan. Also, Northern Alliance saying that in that missed hit, about six of their soldiers were killed. The uprising has mostly been put down, we understand, from reports from over there.

In Konduz, which was the last of the Taliban strongholds in northern Afghanistan to fall over the weekend, there there are scenes of celebrations in the street. Many people coming out to celebrate now the arrival of the Northern Alliance after that bitter two-week standoff and attacks on the frontlines near Konduz, trying to flush out the Taliban there -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Christiane, any additional speculation about the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden and his key supporters?

AMANPOUR: Well, yes, there's plenty of speculation, a lot of conflicting reports.

From here, from Kabul, the Northern Alliance officials say they believe that he and Mullah Omar can only be in the area around Kandahar. And we were shown pictures of what was called a mountain fortress hideaway that had been printed by an al Qaeda newsletter for the Taliban when they were still in charge here, showing a very hard to access mountain hideaway in the Kandahar region. These were old pictures and it's not clear whether Osama bin Laden is there.

And as I say, conflicting reports -- some say that he may be in the mountains around Jalalabad. But, certainly, both Northern Alliance and other officials say that the noose, in any event, is tightening around his area of operations -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Christiane Amanpour, thank you very much from Kabul. And this note, Christiane will have much more in her special report, "LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN." That begins at 8:00 Eastern, that's at the top of the hour.

On the ground inside Afghanistan, U.S. Marines have gone right to work. Let's go live to CNN military affairs correspondent Jamie McIntyre over at the Pentagon -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, you may recall that last month, U.S. Army special forces landed at a remote airstrip southwest of Kandahar and stayed for a very short time as they checked it out.

Well, now, U.S. Marines have returned to that airstrip, but this time in force and this time they are staying a little bit longer.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): Less than 24 hours after hundreds of U.S. Marines landed in southern Afghanistan, some of their Cobra helicopter gunships were already patrolling the combat zone. Several were in the air as a pair of F-14s attacked a column of Taliban tanks and armored vehicles near the remote desert strip southwest of Kandahar, where the Marines began arriving by helicopter Sunday night. DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: They are not an occupying force. Their purpose is to establish a forward base of operations to help pressure the Taliban forces in Afghanistan, to prevent Taliban and al Qaeda terrorists from moving freely about the country.

MCINTYRE: Pentagon sources say within a day or two, more than 1,000 Marines will have moved from their ships in the Arabian Sea into Afghanistan with some helicopters stopping to refuel at a base in Pakistan. Much of their heavy weaponry and supplies will be offloaded to Pakistan and flown in by C-130, according to Pentagon sources.

COL. PETER MILLER, CHIEF OF STAFF TASK FORCE: Now, in short order, you will have 1,000-plus Marines in the backyard of the Taliban within two days.

MCINTYRE: In the north, the Taliban has lost control of Konduz, but some captured prisoners are still fighting. This Pentagon video shows a rocket-propelled grenade fired from an old fort in nearby Mazar-e Sharif, used by the Northern Alliance to hold Taliban prisoners.

A second video shows the U.S. response, one of a series of airstrikes that were used to quell the revolt. Hundreds were killed before the uprising was put down. And five U.S. special forces were seriously injured by friendly fire and were evacuated after an airstrike they called in hit too close to their position.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

With the fall of Kunduz, Kandahar is the last remaining Taliban stronghold. And the U.S. is now sharpening its focus on getting both Osama bin Laden and Taliban leader Mohammed Omar. Omar is described by the Pentagon as digging in and preparing for a fight to the death -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Jamie, what makes them believe Mullah Omar is ready to fight to the death, we have seen a lot of other Taliban soldiers simply give up?

MCINTYRE: Well, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said today that he just didn't think it was in Omar's nature to surrender. He said he doubted he would be taken alive. The chairman of the joint chiefs, General Richard Myers, noted that while Osama bin Laden seemed to be spending his time trying to find a better place to hide, Mohammed Omar was organizing the last resistance and giving every indication that he was not going to surrender to opposition forces. So at this point they said, they thought it was unlikely that he would be taken alive.

BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon, thank you very much.

And with the war in Afghanistan taking a new turn, let's turn now to our CNN WAR ROOM guests.

I'm joined by Frank Gaffney a senior Pentagon official during the Reagan administration. He's now president of the Center for Security Policy. CNN military analyst, retired General David Grange a former ranger, green beret and infantry division commander. And Michael Vickers one time special forces and CIA officer, now with the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments.

You can e-mail your questions, by the way, to our CNN WAR ROOM, just go to cnn.com/wolf.

And General Grange, let me begin with you, and put up on the screen our map to show our viewers where the U.S. Marines right now are in -- near Kandahar. This is Kandahar, down here in the south, outside there's this air base not very far away. All of this area of course to the north controlled by the Northern Alliance, Kandahar, the one area, one the major city still under the control of the Taliban. What is their mission right now, defensive mostly or over offensive?

GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I think it's a combination of both, Wolf. What you have is you have Marines in there as a show of force, shows commitment on the ground, it's a muscle force, it's more troops than we've had on the ground before. It's a unit that be either moved by ground and light armored vehicles, or by air assault and helicopters to destroy or capture remnants of airstrikes -- or it may be employed for mountain warfare, because they're trained in that, as well as urban operations if they're part of taking down Kandahar itself.

BLITZER: Michael, "The Wall Street Journal" -- there was a piece, an opinion piece in "The Wall Street Journal" today by Captain Dale Herspring, retired, who wrote this:

"The biggest lesson from the Soviet's war is: Don't go into Afghanistan with a large ground force, and never, never try to occupy territory." Is the U.S. making a mistake right now?

MICHAEL VICKERS, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND BUDGETARY ASSESSMENTS: I think this is really more seizing a forward operating base from which to project power temporarily. I don't think they'll be a long- term occupation force. The Marines historically really don't do sustained land combat, they hand it off to the Army, should that be needed. But I think in this case, the objective is really to -- as General Grange said, to get the remnants of the Taliban leadership and al Qaeda.

BLITZER: Sort of a political show of force, is that what you are saying, too, Frank Gaffney?

FRANK GAFFNEY, FORMER PENTAGON OFFICIAL: I don't think it's just political. I think this is a real military capability, that we, as the general said, have not seen brought to bear at this point. And that apparently, needs to be brought to bear to help wrap up this last phase of the more conventional aspect of this conflict.

BLITZER: But none of you really expect the Marines to go into Kandahar, and start searching house to house, go into combat looking for Osama bin Laden or Mullah Omar, do you?

GRANGE: I don't think it's going to be a house to house search, systematically taking down the city of Kandahar, but it may be a strike in a certain area of the city where we know they're located.

BLITZER: The -- a question from one of our viewers in Ontario, Paul, asked us this question: "Can we be assured that our Marines are safer in Kandahar, than they were in Somalia or Beirut?"

A lot of people remember what happened to the Marines in Beirut. What do you say about that?

GRANGE: You can't assume that they'll be safe anywhere they're operating. You have to be ready to protect your force, as well as go out and destroy the enemy.

BLITZER: You were in the Reagan administration at the time of Beirut, weren't you?

GAFFNEY: I was actually awaiting going to the administration, I was on the Hill at the time, but remember it very well.

BLITZER: But the suicide bomber going in, killing a lot of Marines?

GAFFNEY: Sure. And it could happen here too. It could happen in Pakistan, for that matter. It could happen in Uzbekistan or Tajikistan. There's lots of places where enemies of this country could go after our forces. The forces are there, though, I think, correctly, to take the fight to the enemy. And, hopefully, in so doing will not make not only the forces, but us here at home safer.

BLITZER: And just to go back to that experience, have the Marines learned any lessons, as far as you know, Michael, from that horrible tragedy, that horrible experience in Beirut that they are -- have been using since then?

VICKERS: The rules of engagement here are going to be very, very different. In Beirut, you know, it really was just a show of force, and they were right in the middle of the shiite suburbs. Here they are very much at a remote airstrip where they'll be able to project power and defend themselves a lot better.

BLITZER: General Grange, another question from a viewer in Colorado.

"What plans do we have to extricate our Marines should one or more of the various 'friendly' tribes decide to support al Qaeda again?"

GRANGE: Well, we're always going to have contingency plans to take care of our people if they get engaged beyond their capabilities. We have a pretty powerful force there, a lot of air power to back them up, and I'm sure some other stuff out of Uzbekistan, or off the carriers to reinforce. But again, we are not occupying. So if we start getting drug into where we become the enemy from several parties, I think we'll move out.

BLITZER: What's your biggest concern right now?

GAFFNEY: Well, one of my frustrations is that we are not equipping our troops with the best equipment that we have available.

BLITZER: The Marines?

GAFFNEY: Specifically the V-22, which is if you are interested in getting them out, or for that matter moving them around the country in a stealthy, rapid, and I think, decisive fashion -- that aircraft ought to be...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: You mean the Osprey?

GAFFNEY: ... brought to bare. The Osprey. In Desert Storm --

BLITZER: But the Osprey have such a horrible record.

GAFFNEY: Yes, but this is the time you use it, and you prove that it's basically a very safe and very effective design. In fact I had a pilot say to me the other day, I would rather fly that than the 46's or the 53's that we've got on the strip right now.

BLITZER: The harrier jump jets?

GAFFNEY: No, no, no the helicopters that these forces are using right now.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: But can't the...

GAFFNEY: Because it's...

SCHNEIDER: Harrier...

GAFFNEY: ... a safer airplane than the ones that they've been flying all these years.

BLITZER: You agree with that, Michael, that the Osprey is the way to go right now? A lot of our viewers know it's that tilt-rotor helicopter, that's had a horrible track record in testing over these past several years.

GAFFNEY: No, that's not really true.

BLITZER: A lot of marines have been killed.

GAFFNEY: A couple of Marines killed, there's been a couple crashes.

BLITZER: A lot more than a couple.

GAFFNEY: Well, 20, 25.

BLITZER: Dozens.

GAFFNEY: Something like that. That's not trivial, but in the history of developing revolutionary aircraft that are going to transform the art of war, and this aircraft will do that, that is a price, that I think, the Marines have been prepared to pay. And would like to get the return on the investment.

VICKERS: Well, I think the Osprey will add to Marine capabilities over the longer term, for what they call operational maneuver from the sea. For now, I think, that their helicopters, while old, they're older than many of the commanders that are employing them. They'll do the job in Afghanistan.

BLITZER: Do you think the Osprey is the way...

GRANGE: Well, I don't know if it's the Osprey. But the Marines need something, they have antiquated helicopters. They're older than many of the people that fly them...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: So why...

GRANGE: ... and they're unsafe in many cases.

BLITZER: ... did General Tommy Franks, the central commander, pick the Marines for this mission, as opposed to your former colleagues in the Delta Force or the Rangers?

GRANGE: Well, I don't know. but I do know that I would rather be in an Army helicopter, like a 47 than a 46.

BLITZER: Do you think the Marines can get this job done with their antiquated...

(CROSSTALK)

GRANGE: I believe...

BLITZER: ... equipment?

GRANGE: ... they can, but they have a shortened radius of operations. The 46 does not have the reach that a 47 has. However, their 53 helicopters are much better for range, but it's a good point about their operational reach. Those helicopters are short ranged, they don't have the payload they used to have, because they are worn out.

BLITZER: Some have, Frank, that the reason the Marines were bought in is because they can -- they can do a defense, they can do a perimeter around the air base, protect, but they're not going to do what the Delta Force or the rangers could do, which actually go on the offensive and engage in combat.

GAFFNEY: No, I think clearly this is a force that's capable of doing both. Not as well, perhaps in the special operations mode, as the special operations forces, but it's an integrated capability that projects power, relatively efficiently, relatively quickly -- and if it had the best equipment we have in the inventory -- and we have got 24 of those V-22 right now we ought to be using these things, much as we did in Desert Storm when had the J-stars aircraft (UNINTELLIGIBLE) it was a developmental aircraft, as well. We need it.

BLITZER: We will see if they -- well, they didn't use the Apaches in Kosovo. But that's another story, we can get to that, you remember that quite well.

Coming up here in the CNN "War Room": With the Marines now making themselves at home inside the Taliban heartland, is the U.S. getting any closer to finding Osama bin Laden? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to our CNN "War Room" as the United States, steps up its hunt for Osama bin Laden, is President Bush now also setting its sites on Iraq's Saddam Hussein?

Let's gets back to the discussion. First of all, on the hunt for Osama bin Laden, we have a map, Michael, I want to put up on the screen of where -- what the Northern Alliance, the U.S. allies -- the rebels -- now control inside Afghanistan, take a look at this. All this area north of Kandahar, up here all this area, some 80 percent, 75 to 80 percent of Afghanistan now under supposedly friendly control. What does that mean for as far as the search for Osama bin Laden is concerned?

VICKERS: Well, the al Qaeda leadership is in a lot smaller box than it used to be. In may still be a needle in a haystack, but the haystack has gotten a lot smaller and it's on fire. And there's been some fear of this notion of guerrilla warfare, but really the only forces fighting anymore are foreigners. And they stick out like sore thumbs in Afghanistan. Afghanistan is a tribal society, and there's been a fair number of Pashtun rebellions. And the Northern Alliance is advancing from Herat. So, I think his days are numbers.

BLITZER: What about that Frank Faffney?

GAFFNEY: I certainly hope that's true. The key thing, and I think it's been the president's objective from the beginning is to put him on the run. If he's one the run, it's going to be more difficult for him to run things, and that's the minimum. Obviously we would like to take him out if we can, and I hope with this combination of Afghan forces with American technology and now some additional personnel, we'll be able to do that.

BLITZER: One of our viewers from Forest Hills, New York asked this question: "Do you and the guests feel that today's attack by the Marines is a prelude to attempting an actual apprehension of Osama bin Laden or Mullah Omar (the leader of the Taliban)?"

GRANGE: I think it's a bit of good intelligence where these two scoundrels may be. And I think the pressure, continuing the pressure, that momentum is going to help. Even if they don't get either one of these two guys right now, it'll keep them from operating efficiently around the world. So every little bit of pressure like this helps. I think they are narrowing in on them. BLITZER: We heard some new rhetoric. Words, strong words, from President Bush today about Iraq. "The New York Times" in an editorial earlier in the day came out and wrote this:

"Finishing the job in Afghanistan requires holding together the international coalition Washington has skillfully assembled. Warn in Iraq at this juncture would almost certainly shatter that coalition. "

So does that mean the bombers, as John King referred to those in the administration, Paul Wolfowitz, among others who want to strike Iraq now. are making a mistake?

GAFFNEY: Well, some of my best friends are bombers, let me just be clear ---

BLITZER: You are one of the bombers, too?

GAFFNEY: I would be proud to be a bomber, but I don't think that's really what's required right now. What we need is a program that Paul Wolfowitz and a great many others, including Don Rumsfeld and Rich Armitage at the State Department in the past have called for, which is a process of political de-legitimatization of Saddam Hussein. Working with, in fact recognizing a provisional Iraqi opposition government, based on the Iraqi National Congress, and helping them do what the Afghan people are now doing in their country.

BLITZER: But you don't find, Michael, a lot of support even in the administration, especially the State Department for this efforts to find the opposition to Saddam Hussein and work with them to try and get the job done.

VICKERS: Well, I think we are caught to some extent with a major review of our Iraq policy that was suspended by September 11. And we need to revisit that. I think there's increasing support that we need to do something about Iraq, and we don't want them to get weapons of mass destruction. Saddam Hussein has showed clear intent to pursue this and particularly in nuclear weapons -- would be disastrous.

BLITZER: The military is itching, or not itching to get a second strike, a second effort now to go after Saddam Hussein.

GRANGE: Well, I think, we want to wait a little bit. And I tell you why, even though I think we need to go get him. Two reasons; one, the military is very small. It's smaller than people think, we are over-committed throughout the world, we're over-committed before the fight in Afghanistan started. And we're really stretching in out a bit too much. We need to keep looking over our shoulder at this guy, start maybe an information warfare campaign, right now, start putting the pressure on him. But maybe not strike just yet.

BLITZER: Because Iraq is a little bit tougher than Afghanistan.

GRANGE: Little tougher.

BLITZER: At this point, we are going to leave it right there. I want to thank all of our guests. General Grange, Michael, Frank -- always good to have all of you on the program. Thank you.

And "CROSSFIRE" comes your way at bottom of the hour. Bob Novak has a preview.

BOB NOVAK, CNN CO-HOST: Wolf, thank you.

Now begins the great debate over human cloning, when a scientific breakthrough was revealed over the weekend, the protests rang loud and clear beginning with president of the United States. We have the head of the company that claimed the breakthrough debating social conservative Gary Bauer. That's our CROSSFIRE coming up in a few minutes -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you very much, Bob.

And the factual -- fractional wrangling over who will rule Afghanistan takes a diplomatic turn. Coming up, we'll tell you why all Afghan eyes are now turned to Germany for a solution. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Here are the latest developments in Afghanistan. 500 U.S. marines are on the ground near Kandahar. The Pentagon says at least 1,000 will deploy inside Afghanistan to help apply pressure to the Taliban and al Qaeda fighters.

Delegates from fractional Afghan groups have now arrived in Bonn, Germany for tomorrow's summit sponsored by the United Nations. Security is very tight as the representatives prepare to meet to lay the ground work for a post-Taliban government.

And an Indonesian immigrant facing document fraud charges is now being linked to the September 11 terrorist suspects. During a detention hearing for a 31-year-old, Agus Budiman, a government witness linked him to Mohammed Atta the alleged ring leader in the attacks. Budiman's lawyer, a retired Army officer, has recused himself from the case.

This programming note, tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern. Larry King has an exclusive interview with Secretary of State Colin Powell.

And that's all the time we have tonight. Please join me again tomorrow twice at both 5:00 and 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

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