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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
What Went Wrong During a Deadly Friendly Fire Incident?; Can Osama bin Laden be Smoked Out of Tora Bora Caves?
Aired December 05, 2001 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Today on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: "America Strikes Back." Friendly fire from a smart bomb takes a heavy toll.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REAR ADM. JOHN STUFFLEBEEM, JOINT STAFF DEPUTY OPS. DIRECTOR: There was a forward air controller who called in a close air support mission. A B-52 spotted with JDAM munitions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: We'll look at what went wrong.
The battle for Tora Bora. Anti-Taliban fighters go after bin Laden loyalists thought to be holed up in the mountain caves. Can the al Qaeda leader be smoked out?
It's a delicate job. Germ warfare experts begin opening an anthrax letter sent to a U.S. senator. And, will the closing days of Ramadan trigger a new terror attack? We'll get the latest from the home front and the front lines, as "America Strikes Back."
Hello from Washington. Today some families of those who serve are grateful, others are grieving. This hour, USS John Paul Jones, a destroyer that saw action in this war, is now home in time for the holidays. But there will be no reunion for families of three U.S. soldiers. They died today in Afghanistan. We'll examine how this so- called friendly fire accident may have happened.
First let's go to Joie Chen in Atlanta for a quick check on the latest developments -- Joie.
JOIE CHEN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, want to bring our viewers up to date now. The Pentagon is trying to find out now why a satellite- guided bomb missed its target today, killing three members of the U.S. special forces and wounding 19 more. Five Afghan opposition troops fighting alongside the Americans also were killed. The 2,000 bomb was dropped by a B-52 north of Kandahar, which is the last Taliban stronghold. We'll have more on this coming up this hour.
Fighting continues to rage in the Tora Bora mountains in eastern Afghanistan. Anti-Taliban fighters, supported by U.S. warplanes, are battling al Qaeda and Taliban forces. U.S. officials believe that Osama bin Laden and other al Qaeda and Taliban leaders may be holed up in caves in the Tora Bora mountains.
Putting aside years of hostility, four rival Afghan faction leaders today signed an agreement for a post-Taliban government. Now, under the U.N.-sponsored accord, tribal leader Hamid Karzai will serve as the head of an interim government. The GOP paves the way for the formation of a permanent government in six months.
A fugitive suspected of sending hoax anthrax letters was arrested today in a Cincinnati suburb of Springdale. Clayton Lee Waagner allegedly sent fake anthrax letters to abortion clinics. Waagner escaped from jail in February and was on the FBI's 10 most wanted list. Later this hour Wolf will speak with John Walsh, host of "America's Most Wanted," about how that show helped to capture Waagner.
A dispute continues over whether the pilot of an American Airlines jet that hijackers crashed into the Pentagon will get a burial at Arlington National Cemetery. The Pentagon says that Navy reservist, Captain Charles Burlingame, may be buried in his father's plot. But his sister says the family feels he deserves his own plot. Army officials had earlier denied the family's request because Burlingame didn't meet an age requirement.
Congressional leaders pledge to work through the weekend, if need be, to come up with a bill to jump-start the economy. In a White House meeting, Mr. Bush minced no words in telling lawmakers to get the job done. The House already has passed a stimulus plan endorsed by the president. The Senate is stuck in a dispute over the mix of tax cuts and aid for the jobless.
We'll continue to follow up on the latest developments. Now we go back to Wolf in Washington.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Joie.
And a friendly fire accident has resulted in the worst American casualty toll of the war in Afghanistan. Three American special forces soldiers were killed and 19 were wounded today when a satellite-guided bomb missed its target. Five Afghan opposition fighters were also killed. A short time ago, President Bush expressed his condolences.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I, along with the rest of America, grieve for the loss of life in Afghanistan. Three of our soldiers were killed by an inadvertent bomb. And our prayers and sympathies go to the families.
I want the families to know that they died for a noble and just cause. That the fight against terror is noble and it's just, and they defend freedom. And for that, we're grateful.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: CNN's military affairs correspondent Jamie McIntyre is covering the story. He is at the Pentagon. Jamie, give us the details.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, this happened when a group of U.S. special forces, specifically two separate teams, were operating along with opposition forces north of Kandahar. This is the group that is commanded by Hamid Karzai, who has been picked as the head of the interim government.
In fact, Pentagon sources say Karzai was injured during this accident, although he only suffered flesh wounds. The U.S. suffered two deaths immediately, and then another person died as they are being evacuated from the U.S. Marine forward base, that is southwest of Kandahar. The American reporters who were part of the media pool at that base were not allowed to cover the transfer of the casualties from helicopters, as they were then moved out to other locations in the region.
As for what went wrong with this B-52 dropping a satellite-guided bomb, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld ticked through some of the possibilities in an interview with CNN's Larry King that will air later tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Well, the coordinates could have been wrong, in the first instance. They could have been transmitted incorrectly. They could have been received incorrectly. They could have been put into the fire control system incorrectly.
There are many other things that could also have happened. There could be a bent fin on the weapon. The weapon could be one of the weapons that didn't work right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: The Pentagon says that their precision guided bombs, even in the best case scenario, work perfectly about 85 to 90 percent of the time -- that there is always a risk of a bomb going astray, and there's always the risk of what's called friendly fire casualties, or fratricide.
An investigation is under way to try to determine which one of those possibilities might be responsible. Meanwhile, the U.S. says that, in addition to the up to 19 wounded, that there were also 10 Afghan fighters wounded, who were evacuated to U.S. ships off the coast of Pakistan to receive medical attention -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre, thank you very much. And joining us now to talk more about the impact the so-called friendly fire incidents have on forces in the field if the former NATO supreme allied commander, now the CNN military analyst, retired General Wesley Clark.
General Clark, what's the standard operating procedure in war time, as far as the bomb is concerned, the so-called smart bomb involved? Do you suspend use of that for the time being, pending an investigation?
GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET), FMR. NATO SUPREME COMMANDER: Well, in this case you might suspend it for a few minutes, until you can find out and make sure that there is nothing wrong with the systems on the aircraft, or there is nothing wrong with the weapon. But my guess is that they probably put it back in use by this point. I would say in an instance like this, it's almost certainly human error somewhere in the system.
BLITZER: When you say human error, what kind -- explain to our viewers how the so-called smart bombs, these precision-guided bombs, that human error can cause this kind of tragedy.
CLARK: A smart bomb, in this case, is guided by radio signals from satellites. And it will fly to a very precise location on the ground that's input by an operator. He puts in a series of numbers that represent a point on a map. But that point on the map is given to him by someone on the ground, who determines that there is a target there, that he and the other friendly forces are a safe distance away.
And then he punches in a set of numbers which is sent electronically to someone else, who has to read it off a screen, in all probability, and punch it in again. So there are many chances for error in a project like this. And it just goes wrong once by one digit, and you can have a tragedy.
BLITZER: I know that all of the military commanders, they always warn that there will be these kinds of fratricide incidents, friendly fire. But I'm sure it has a hugely demoralizing impact on the fighting forces, doesn't it?
CLARK: Well, it does. It has a tremendous impact, especially today in modern war. Because everyone in the whole world, and almost everybody in the force will know about this now. For the men on the ground, it makes them much more cautious and careful in putting their own coordinates in and for calling for fire.
But it is also devastating on the air crews, because it reminds them once again how terribly difficult and demanding this is, and how the slightest misstep can result in the death of innocent people.
BLITZER: And what's the normal procedure, if human error was responsible? Someone made a mistake -- does that person pay a price for that mistake?
CLARK: Probably not. The most likely source of the mistake is probably some of the people on the ground. And unfortunately, they may have paid the tragic price already for this.
But in the event of a mistake, people are going to work through this system, and it will be done within the chain of command. You'll probably never hear what happens. If it's a weapons malfunction, then for some period of time, the weapon will have to be suspended until it is checked out and we determine what in the system caused that malfunction.
But I have full confidence, and I think the American people should have, and the people in the chain of command. They know these systems. We've used these JDAMS for several years now. And we can get on top of a problem like this very quickly and sort through it.
BLITZER: General Clark, thanks very much for joining us.
CLARK: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: More on the friendly fire accident tonight in the "CNN WAR ROOM." Among my guests, Senator Chuck Hagel. He's a Vietnam veteran. And as well, the retired Air Force General Don Shepperd. He's also a CNN military analyst. That's at 7:00 p.m. Eastern, 4:00 Pacific.
You can participate, by the way. Just go to my Web site, cnn.com/wolf. Click on the "send questions" icon. I'll ask as many of your questions to our panel as I possibly can.
Meanwhile, Afghan opposition fighters are locked in a fierce battle with al Qaeda forces in the Tora Bora mountains of eastern Afghanistan. The rebels vow to keep fighting until all the al Qaeda troops are killed or driven out of the region. CNN's Brent Sadler is covering the action.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Anti-Taliban fighters gave a definitive answer to an apparent message sent from Osama bin Laden just two days ago, not to bear arms against al Qaeda. The eastern military alliance opened up with tank and machine gun fire against the Tora Bora stronghold. hoping to push terror groups into a surrender or die situation.
Now. let's take a look at what was happening on that new front line leading up to the mountain stronghold of Tora Bora in the white mountains. You can see that there are T-55, old Russian-made tanks, pouring shell fire into an al Qaeda position in the foothills of Tora Bora. That started earlier in the day and will be continuing throughout this day. And the Mujahedeen, who are ordering this tank, shellfire and gun activity, is part of an assault, a major assault plan, they say, to drive out al Qaeda to eradicate, they say, terror groups from Tora Bora.
Now, while the anti-Taliban forces were pouring, directing fire towards those al Qaeda positions, United States heavy warplanes were busy overhead, also pounding what appeared to be the same targets that were being hit by the tank fire. B-52 or B-1 bombers came in and dropped ordinates. There were loud explosions, huge plumes of smoke, coming out of that area.
We were told on the ground that the anti-Taliban fighters were pushing towards the al Qaeda terror groups and were facing stiff resistance -- facing machine gun fire and rocket-propelled grenades themselves. And there were reports of light casualties on the Mujahedeen side.
Now, they claim that this operation is going to be a very tough nut to crack. Some of the commanders directing the fire towards al Qaeda have experience of Tora Bora themselves. They fought the Soviets during the Russian occupation of Afghanistan during the 1980s in the Tora Bora complex of caves and tunnels, where Osama bin Laden might be hiding.
And they know it's a very difficult situation, a very difficult objective to take. But they say they will do it, and they say they can do it single-handed. But that remains to be seen.
Brent Sadler, CNN, Jalalabad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: U.S. officials say Osama bin Laden and some of his top officials may be hiding out in the Tora Bora mountains. But if bin Laden isn't there, where could he be, and what's the best way for U.S. forces to get him? Joining us now to talk about that, CNN terrorism analyst, Peter Bergen, the author of the bestseller "Holy War, Inc.," which is doing very well. Congratulations.
Where else could he be, if he's not in that area around Tora Bora?
PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, the area that he could be in is very limited now. Dr. Abdullah, the former minister of the Northern Alliance, has said that he's actually north of Kandahar, in the area which is known as Oruzgan. So it's only in those two places that he might be.
Those two places are -- you can imagine, perhaps, going back and forth between those places along the mountains of central Afghanistan, which are underpopulated and quite high. But it seems that those are the only two places that he might be right now.
BLITZER: We have a map of the world, which shows where some of those al Qaeda cells might be. And I want to put that up on the screen right now. Take a look, the area that's going to be in red in a second. All of these countries, U.S. law enforcement, other intelligence sources, suspect that al Qaeda cells might be in those countries -- 30, 40, some say as many as 60 countries around the world.
What happens if bin Laden is captured or killed, as far as triggering some of those so-called sleeper cells
BERGEN: Well, Wolf, don't forget there's been a huge law enforcement effort around the world, particularly in Spain, England, Germany and Italy, rounding up suspected members of al Qaeda. So a lot of these cells are being rolled up.
There are other countries where there may be a presence of al Qaeda, for instance, in Somalia, perhaps parts of Yemen, remote parts of Yemen. But I think that you have seen a lot of government cooperation. The Yemeni government, for instance, is talking about joint military cooperation between Yemeni special forces and American special forces.
So while there are other elements of al Qaeda around the world, it's nothing like the situation that pertained in Afghanistan.
BLITZER: I know we're still in the middle of Ramadan, the Muslim holy month. What happens, supposedly, on the 27th day of Ramadan, which is a special day, it comes sometime next week, according the lunar calendar? Is that a day that U.S. law enforcement should be on even higher state of alert?
BERGEN: I believe they should be, for two reasons. One, al Qaeda has tried to attack on that day before. They tried to bomb a U.S. warship called the Sullivans in Yemen on January 3, 2000, which would have been the same day. The reason that was the case is that dying on that day is supposed to be a special sign of Allah's favor.
And for bin Laden's men , this would be a date of significance. And certainly, when Tom Ridge is talking about religious holidays, that people should pay attention to, I think perhaps he may have been referring to this day.
BLITZER: That would be around December 13, according to our calendar, of course. And as you know, the various factions meeting outside of Bonn on Afghanistan have agreed that Hamid Karzai should be the interim leader for the next six months. He's fighting with the rebels -- he's a Pashtun -- around Kandahar right now.
Tell our viewers something about Hamid Karzai.
BERGEN: Well, it's a smart choice, for all sorts of reasons. First of all, as you say, he's a Pashtun, and the Northern Alliance is largely Tajik. So basically, you obviate any concerns the Pashtuns may have. Secondly, his family is a very prominent one. He is the leader of the Popalzai tribe, several hundred-thousand strong, at least. They surround Kandahar in the north and the east.
It's a very smart move. He has a brother living in the United States. He speaks good English. He is someone who could negotiate with the United States and the West. I think that it seems like a very good move, to install him as the interim head.
BLITZER: Peter Bergen, thanks for joining us.
And this note: The Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is a special guest on "LARRY KING LIVE" tonight. That's at 9:00 p.m. Eastern, 6:00 Pacific.
The countdown is now under way for today's launch of the shuttle, Endeavour. The space shuttle Endeavour is scheduled to launch in just a few minutes. We'll have that live, of course, when that happens.
Happy days in San Diego this hour. The Navy's guided missile destroyer, the USS John Paul Jones, is home from the war in Afghanistan. Joining us now from onboard the warship is CNN national correspondent, Frank Buckley -- Frank.
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the men of the USS John Paul Jones have pulled up here to pier 2 in San Diego. You can see they are now looking across for friends and family members, hoping to get a glimpse of people that they haven't seen for six months, after serving in the north Arabian Sea. We'll bring you some of their emotional reunions shortly.
Onshore right now with some of the family members is my colleague, Thelma Gutierrez -- Thelma.
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Frank, we are here on the pier with hundreds of very anxious people. You can hear them right now, beckoning the sailors to come down off that ship. They are actually being held back behind a fence. They are not allowed to come onto the pier for security reasons. But that hasn't dampered any of their spirits. We'll have their story. Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Thelma and Frank. We're within two minutes of the launching of the space shuttle Endeavour. I want to bring in our space correspondent, Miles O'Brien. He's down there at the Kennedy Space Center. Miles, give us the latest.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN SPACE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, we are one minute -- excuse me, one minute, 43 seconds away from the liftoff of the space shuttle Endeavour. The weather, we've been telling you about, was iffy all evening. But it has cleared off. NASA caught a break this time. Last night at this time, just about 24 hours ago, just the opposite occurred. That five-minute window occurred, and right about the same time, a 15-minute rainstorm passed overhead.
On board the space shuttle Endeavour for this, the 107th shuttle mission, a crew of seven led by Dominic Gorie. They are carrying up to the space station as their primary mission a new three-person crew, the so-called Expedition Four -- the fourth live-in crew for the space station. They will relieve the crew that have been up there for about three months time.
So far, this launch countdown has gone off virtually without a hitch. Right now the space shuttle, going through a series of final checks. And the countdown is controlled almost completely by computer at this juncture -- a computer which can measure more than 1,000 thousand different parameters at once. And it will make a decision whether to abort, as well as the human beings in the firing room, also have that possibility.
With about 40 seconds left to liftoff, let's listen in to NASA, and NASA commentator, Bruce Buckingham.
BRUCE BUCKINGHAM, NASA COMMENTATOR: T minus 30 seconds and counting. And we have a good for auto-sequence start. Deborah's onboard computers have primary control of all the vehicle's critical functions. T minus 20 seconds and counting.
T minus 15 seconds. Twelve, ten, nine, eight -- we have a go for main engine start. Six, five, four, three, two, one. We have booster ignition and liftoff of the space shuttle Endeavour, pushing our goals skyward, using our station in space.
Houston now patrolling the flight of Endeavour.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roger, roll, Endeavour.
BUCKINGHAM: Endeavour into the roll, placing the shuttle in a heads-down, wings level position. The proper (UNINTELLIGIBLE) for the eight-and- a-half minute ride into orbit. Thirty seconds into the flight.
Endeavour's three liquid fuel main engines now throttling back into three-step fashion, to 72 percent of radio performance, reducing the stress on the shuttle as it breaks through the sound barrier.
Endeavour already three miles down range, four and a half miles in altitude, losing weight as it heads uphill.
JIM KELLY, CAPCOM: Endeavour, Houston. Go at throttle up.
DOMINIC GORIE, COMMANDER: Endeavour, copy. Go at throttle up.
BUCKINGHAM: The throttle-up call from CapCom Jim Kelly, acknowledged by Commander Dom Gorie, aboard Endeavour. Gorie joined on the flight deck by pilot Mark Kelly, flight engineer Dan Tani and mission specialist, Linda Godwin. The Expedition Four crew, Russian commander Yuri Onufrienko, and American flight engineers Dan Bursch and Carl Walz, seated down on the mid-deck.
O'BRIEN: One minute and 24 seconds into the flight of the space shuttle Endeavour, its 17th mission, the 107th space shuttle mission. The 12th mission to the International Space Station Alpha. And in about 30 seconds from now, that critical moment when the solid rocket boosters, those twin boosters that are attached to either side of the orange external fuel tank, will separate from the space shuttle as it continues its ride uphill, as they say here at NASA.
That's a critical moment, as you well know, because the solid rocket boosters, once they are lit, cannot be stopped. And it limits the capability of the crew to perform any emergency procedures.
At two minutes and four seconds into the flight, per schedule. the solid rocket boosters are separated from the space shuttle Endeavour. Look at that wide shot. A spectacular night here at the Kennedy Space Center, as the plume of the Space Shuttle Endeavour is struck by the setting sun, as it continues its ride into space at 2 minutes 21 seconds into the flight.
And now it goes through a period of time where the main engines continue firing for another six minutes or so. And throughout that period of time, NASA and the space shuttle commander and crew go through a series of checks to indicate what would happen if they were to lose an engine. Where would they go? Where would they end up?
The possibility of a trans-Atlantic abort, which would put them into Spain. The possibility of abort to orbit, which would mean a not as high orbit as anticipated. And eventually, as they get high enough, the realization that they have made it to space. Space shuttle Endeavour, so far, exactly according to the numbers I have in front of me. Everything appears to be going according schedule.
This mission will last 11 days. Seven people on board. Three of them will be left up there. They will come back with three space station crew members, who have been in space now for three months. That important crew transfer, one spacewalk will occur. And we will, of course, be watching it every step of the way.
Miles O'Brien, CNN, reporting live from the Kennedy Space Center -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Miles. And no matter how many times we see that sight, it is magnificent, a spectacular picture. Thank you very much. And our viewers can follow the time line of the shuttle's mission. Just go to cnn.com. Click "space." The AOL keyword is CNN.
When we come back, we'll also go back to San Diego, where there has already been some hugs, some kisses. The reunion -- sailors returning from the USS John Paul Jones, after duty in Afghanistan, off the coast of Afghanistan, in south Asia. One of the first ships, U.S. warships, to launch cruise missiles at the beginning of the war. We'll have much more on that.
Coming up, also ahead here, another step towards solving the anthrax mystery. Opening the anthrax-laden letter sent to Senator Patrick Leahy. What clues could it hold? And, the Taliban who's an American -- what should be done to John Walker? That's all next. We're coming back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The first kiss, the first kiss after six months. Crew members, reunited with their families, their loved ones, in San Diego from the USS John Paul Jones. Guided missile cruiser back in San Diego, after six months duty, including duty in the Arabian Sea as well as the Persian Gulf. Duty that involved launching of cruise missiles against targets in Afghanistan.
I want to bring back Thelma Gutierrez. She's standing by in San Diego. She has some very happy people over there, don't you, Thelma?
GUTIERREZ: Wolf, it's just amazing. You can hear people screaming, they're running into each others' arms, crying. So much has happened in those six months that these men have been away at sea.
With me now is Kelly and Steven Miller. Both of them were reunited a little bit earlier, as they were on the ship. We were on the ground with Kelly, and Steven was with my colleague, Frank Buckley, on the ship.
Steven, you're finally able to hold your daughter. Tell me, what are your feelings right now?
STEVEN MILLER, USS JOHN PAUL JONES: I don't have -- I just can't put it in words. It's unbelievable. It hadn't really hit me that I had a daughter until right now. I really do have a daughter.
GUTIERREZ: Now, your wife was able to send you pictures of your daughter via e-mail, correct?
MILLER: Yes, she was.
GUTIERREZ: Not the same.
MILLER: Not the same. This is -- you can't beat this right here.
(LAUGHTER)
GUTIERREZ: Everyone has said that she looks just like you. What do you think?
MILLER: I think so.
GUTIERREZ: What about you, Kelly? First thought, as you saw your husband get off the ship?
KELLY MILLER, REUNITED WITH HUSBAND: I want -- I'm just happy, extremely ecstatic. This is -- six months without your best friend is too long. It's too long.
GUTIERREZ: And so much has changed in that amount of time. And earlier, we said that you would now have to prepare for round-the- clock duty, starting tonight.
S. MILLER: I have already been doing that for the last six months, so this shouldn't be a change.
GUTIERREZ: You ready for that, ready to change diapers?
S. MILLER: No doubt about it.
GUTIERREZ: OK, well, congratulations to both of you, and welcome home.
S. MILLER: Thank you.
Wolf, many stories like that, of new fathers seeing their babies for the first time. And as you saw when you tossed to me, the first kiss. That was actually the result of a fund-raiser.
Apparently, one of the sailors paid $25, they were raffling off tickets. He paid $25 and he was able to get off the ship, No. 1, and kiss his girlfriend. So there you have it. Lots of happy people here. Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: I'm sure that scene, Thelma, will be recreated many more times at various U.S. ports in the course of the next several months. Thank you so much for joining us. And thank our guests as well.
In less happy news, the International Red Cross says it's been in touch with John Walker, the Taliban American now in U.S. custody, and has taken a message from him to his family. Walker was captured in Mazar-e Sharif while fighting for the Taliban.
What type of action could the 20-year-old Walker face? We're joined now by CNN legal analyst, Roger Cossack, to get to the various options. What are the options facing John Walker right now?
ROGER COSSACK, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Wolf, one of the things that he could be faced with is treason. The Constitution spells out exactly what treason is. It's probably one of the few crimes, perhaps the only crime, that the Constitution spells out exactly what it is and how it must be proved.
It is a difficult crime to prove, because it requires a certain kind of proof. It requires two independent witnesses to every overt act of treason, or it requires a confession in open court by the defendant.
Historically, Aaron Burn, 1807, was tried for treason. They thought he was trying to set up his own republic, but he was acquitted because they couldn't provide the witnesses. Tokyo Rose, Ezra Pound...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Let me interrupt you and put up on the screen for our viewers precisely the words used by the U.S. Constitution.
And listen to this: "Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying War against them or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act or on confession in open court."
And in simple English, you were saying that is pretty precise.
COSSACK: It's very precise.
In, 1945 Justice Jackson said in these three or four simple sentences, it sounded so easy, but it is so complex, because -- and that perhaps explains why there has been very few and very few prosecutions for treason. It is a very difficult case to prove.
Look, let's take this case for example. This young man is supposed to have fought for the Taliban. But who is going to come into court and testify as to the overt acts of his actual fighting for the Taliban, two other Taliban members? Or perhaps he would have to confess in open court. And then there is the political aspect, whether or not the Bush administration really does want to try him for treason, which is punishable, of course, as you know, by death.
BLITZER: And, as you know, the father of this young man said he was young, idealistic, converted to Islam, found himself in a madrasa, a religious school in Pakistan, got influenced by the Taliban, wound up inside Afghanistan, and wound up with those Taliban fighters at Mazar-e-Sharif. I guess, if he had a good, smart lawyer, he could make the case he was brainwashed.
COSSACK: Well, I'm sure there's all kinds of defenses. Was he brainwashed? Did he know what he was doing? Did he have an understanding of what he was doing? Was he there before we went to war and somehow got caught into it?
On the other hand, once you go to war -- I mean, once -- there's no crime in joining the Taliban. But once you join the Taliban and then decide that you are going to fight against Americans, fight against your own country, well, then, you know, Article III, Section 3 treason comes into play. Now, whether or not he would be convicted, whether or not he would be tried, that is a whole different story altogether.
But, certainly, he fits within the definition of what treason could be.
BLITZER: Do you remember, legally, when the last time someone was accused and tried for treason here in the United States?
COSSACK: Yes. I don't remember being around at that time, but I can tell you historically. As I told you earlier, in 1807, Aaron Burr was tried. They thought he tried to set up his own republic.
But, in 1945, Tokyo Rose, who broadcast propaganda, Japanese propaganda, to American troops during the war, was tried. And she ended up in jail. She didn't -- obviously was not executed, ended up spending a great deal of time in jail. And Ezra Pound, the famous poet and author, who supported the Axis, who supported the Nazis, was going to be tried for treason, but he was found insane and never was put on trial.
BLITZER: Aid and comfort -- those are key words.
COSSACK: You bet.
BLITZER: Thank you so much, Roger Cossack.
COSSACK: OK.
BLITZER: And John Walker's future is in the "CROSSFIRE" tonight. That's at 7:30 p.m. Eastern, 4:30 over on the West Coast.
It's time now to check some of the stories making our "Newswire."
Prosecutors charged a 52-year-old man with four of the murders blamed on the so-called Green River serial killer in the Northwest. Gary Ridgway was arrested last week after authorities said they linked him to the crimes using DNA evidence; 49 women were thought to be victims of the Green River killer.
Federal prosecutors in New York say they've indicted 73 people associated with the Genovese crime family. The charges come after an undercover operation in which a police detective infiltrated the group for more than three years. The charges include an attempt to steal $6 million from "The New York Times" payroll.
Two New Jersey judges have put 85 teachers in jail for refusing to work without a contract. More than 700 teachers in Middletown Township walked off the job last week. And most have refused to obey a back-to-work order. A union spokeswoman says contract talks are set to resume tonight.
And Washington's winter bloom? Cherry blossoms along D.C.'s Connecticut Avenue belie the calendar. Not only did the temperature hit 80 in the nation's capital. Record highs in the 60s and 70s were posted from Wisconsin all the way down to Virginia.
Next, they're opening the anthrax letter sent to Senator Leahy -- how to do it safely. And what can it tell us about who sent it? And later: Strom Thurmond is 99. But if you think he is old, wait until you see his former baby-sitter.
Stay with us.
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BLITZER: Welcome back.
Experts at the germ warfare lab at Fort Detrick, Maryland are today beginning the process of opening an anthrax-tainted letter sent to Senator Patrick Leahy, 20 days after it was found and quarantined. It's hoped the anthrax in the letter will help lead investigators to its source.
Joining us now to discuss this and to get some sense of what it may mean, how it is supposed to be opened, is, in Atlanta, Major Patti Pettis. She is of the Georgia Air National Guard and a special civil support team. She knows a lot about opening these kinds of dangerous materials.
Patti, give us your sense: How do you do this in a most safe way? And I know you explained to our viewers last week to a certain degree, but walk us back how they probably are opening up this letter that was sent to Senator Leahy.
MAJOR PATTI PETTIS, 4TH WMD CIVIL SUPPORT TEAM: Hi, Wolf.
There are three important factors to consider when you are preparing to open a contagious or infectious agent such as anthrax. The first would be to be protect your workers, to make sure that you have a well-contained environment, that it's well-protected and filtered. The second would be to maintain that sample integrity. You don't want to interfere with the properties of that agent that you are going to be analyzing. You don't want to interfere with its original state.
The third would to be prevent any aerosolization. So you have to do it in a very cautious, slow, deliberate way so there is going to be minimal movement, minimal air movement in that facility or that containment system, because you don't -- as we know, the anthrax that we are dealing with is like a vapor. It acts like a vapor. The samples that they found in some of the other letters were altered or supplemented with an ingredient known as silica to help maintain aerosolization, or keep them in an air environment, to give them some buoyancy so they could stay floating in the air for longer periods of time.
And that would give people a higher risk of inhaling this agent or this bacteria.
BLITZER: And, Patti, our national correspondent Eileen O'Connor is now reporting that the actual letter sent to Senator Leahy has been opened. It's now being investigated. It's now being reviewed by investigators over at Fort Detrick in Maryland.
It's very dangerous, obviously, for those who are going through that specific letter. What kind of precautions do they need to take?
PETTIS: Well, again, depending on what kind of facility -- and I'm sure they have the highest level of containment and protection available out there at Fort Detrick -- so they are going to -- again, they're going to make sure that they have the proper systems in place to help protect them.
The filtration systems need to be very well in place. They need to provide some extra protections to themselves. Perhaps some of the scientists working there have been vaccinated with the anthrax vaccine. The most important factor is going to be respiratory protection.
BLITZER: And this isn't the first letter that law enforcement authorities have, the CDC has, that the actual anthrax is still contained in the letter. So, clearly, there will be some signs that they are hoping will point to the person or persons who sent this letter. That is obviously going to be very, very critical in maintaining the integrity of the anthrax.
PETTIS: Absolutely. They are looking, obviously, for some forensic evidence. But what I can speak to is the genetic sequencing of the anthrax itself. It's going to be important for them to determine whether this, again, is the same gene or species of anthrax that was found in the other letters to confirm that we have perhaps one organization or group, persons, that are behind this terrorist activity.
BLITZER: Patti Pettis, thanks so very much for joining us. We appreciate it.
PETTIS: Thank you, Wolf. Thank you.
BLITZER: When we come back -- thank you -- we will get the latest from Israel and the Middle East -- more action going on.
Stay with us.
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BLITZER: Welcome back.
There is a new leadership in place for the post-Taliban Afghanistan. Afghan factions signed an agreement on a transitional government in Bonn, Germany today. The transfer of power to a 29- member ruling group is scheduled for December 22. Pashtun leader Hamid Karzai was named the government's interim administrator.
And turning now to the crisis in the Middle East, another suicide bomber struck in Jerusalem today, killing himself and injuring six people. The bomb went off outside a hotel where senior Israeli government officials were meeting. The attack follows three weekend suicide bombings that killed more than two dozens Israelis.
Meanwhile, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon says Yasser Arafat must meet five demands before Israel will resume peace talks with the Palestinians. Sharon says terrorist leaders must be arrested, their organizations dismantled, illegal weapons destroyed, preventive measures implemented. And he says Palestinian leaders must stop inciting terrorists.
President Bush has his own demand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The PLO needs to stand up and root out those killers, those murderers who are preventing us from getting a peace process in place. My nation is committed to peace in the Middle East. Norway is committed to peace in the Middle East. But there are obviously folks who want to use the weapon of terror to derail peace.
And Mr. Arafat must show leadership and bring those to justice who would use murder as a weapon to derail peace and to destroy innocent life. He must show leadership. Now is his time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: The president was speaking at a White House Oval Office photo opportunity with Norway's visiting prime minister, who said of Arafat -- quote -- "It's time for him to show leadership."
Up next, capturing one of the FBI's 10 most wanted: the inside scoop on nabbing Clayton Lee Waagner. I will talk to the host of "America's Most Wanted," John Walsh, when we come back.
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BLITZER: The man suspected of mailing anthrax hoax letters to hundreds of women's clinics is under arrest. Clayton Lee Waagner allegedly has ties to anti-abortion extremist groups. And he was on the FBI's most wanted list.
Joining me from Los Angeles with more is the host of "America's Most Wanted," John Walsh.
John, first of all, tell our viewers briefly who this man is. JOHN WALSH, HOST, "AMERICA MOST WANTED": Wolf, he's a psycho who escaped from prison about nine months ago and committed a bank robbery, the FBI says, along the way -- survivalist, an anti- abortionist fanatic.
And we put him on the show on Saturday night. And we got a call from a specialty store in Birmingham, Alabama, who said that, on Friday, he bought a special flak vest; he bought a wireless surveillance camera and some fake police badges. And he broke into another anti-abortionist's house -- a guy's house -- put a gun to his head, and said: This week, I'm going to kill 41 people. I don't care whether they're anti-abortion doctors. I don't care whether they are nurses. This is the week I'm going to kill 41 people.
And thank God he was taken down this morning by the Springdale police in Ohio on a great tip from a lady at a Kinko's, who saw him visiting one of these anti-abortionist hit list Web sites.
BLITZER: You clearly have been following this case for a long time. The hoax letters -- obviously, no one was hurt in those hoax letters. But they could cause a lot of panic and terror and destruction, couldn't they?
WALSH: Oh, absolutely, Wolf.
He was so smart that he used Planned Parenthood's own Federal Express number to mail these, to paralyze these abortion clinics, to terrorize people, and mostly to delude the limited resources of the FBI and law enforcement. He is a very dangerous guy. And even -- Wolf, as you know, he put my name and tried to find my family's name and where I lived, you know, on the top on his hit list, and getting other anti-abortionist fanatics to kill doctors and nurses, and hopefully kill me.
I am very glad to see this guy off the streets. And no matter how you feel about abortion, these are people who say, it's a terrible thing to kill a fetus, but yet they are murderers. They go out and kill people in the name of God. And I say that they are just like bin Laden, who has perverted Islam and created fanatics and killing innocent people. These people -- and Clayton Lee Waagner is one of these guys.
BLITZER: I know that everyone knows by now that you have worked very closely over the years, but especially right now, with U.S. law enforcement authorities, local, state, federal law enforcement authorities. Did they specifically ask you to highlight this case?
WALSH: Oh, absolutely.
The U.S. Marshals have been on this case for a long time, Wolf. And the Marshals did a great job. When we got the tip that he was in Birmingham after the show on Saturday, the Marshals did something I thought was brilliant, that they let stores like Kinko's all along the Appalachian Trail in Ohio and Alabama and parts of the south, said: Be looking for a guy that may come in and use one your computers and visit one of these anti-abortionist, psycho hit lists. And this woman had watched the show, looked over his shoulder, and saw that Clayton Lee Waagner was visiting one of these Web sites. She had the guts to call the Springdale police. And they and the Marshals chased -- he ran out of the store, and they chased him and took him down in the parking lot. And, Wolf, I say this guy was intent upon killing people this very week. And it was a wonderful takedown.
And law enforcement is -- they're doing a great job. But these are domestic terrorists that we really have to be aware that are out there.
BLITZER: Do you have any sense, if convicted, how much time this guy is going to face in jail?
WALSH: I think he is going to spend the rest of his life in jail. He has done some horrible things. He has escaped from prison. He has had illegal weapons, robbed banks, terrorized people, mailed these anthrax letters. I hope that he spends the rest his life in jail.
BLITZER: John Walsh, the host of "America's Most Wanted," always good to talk to you. Thank you very much.
WALSH: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: And let's take a look at some of the other stories making the CNN "Newswire" today.
President Bush has picked former Montana Governor Marc Racicot to head the Republican National Committee. If approved by the full RNC, Racicot will replace Virginia Governor Jim Gilmore, who's stepping down in January.
Former President Bill Clinton dedicated the site of his future presidential library in Little Rock this morning. Hundreds of supporters were there, but no immediate family. His wife, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, was stuck in Washington on business. And daughter Chelsea is at school in England.
And Jerry Levin has announced he will retire as CEO of AOL Time Warner in May. Levin first joined Time in 1972 and oversaw subsequent mergers that resulted in what is today the world's largest media conglomerate and the parent company, of course, of CNN. COO Richard Parsons will succeed Levin.
Much more on that story, of course, at the top of the hour on "MONEYLINE." Lou Dobbs gives us a preview right now from New York -- Lou.
LOU DOBBS, "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE": You are right, Wolf, a lot more on that story tonight.
And we'll also be reporting on the fighting which is intensifying in Afghanistan. We will have a live report from the Afghan-Pakistani border. I will be talking with former defense secretary, "MONEYLINE" regular contributor William Cohen. And we'll be pleased to tell you about a banner session on Wall Street today, a full-blown rally, the markets rallying to levels not seen in months.
Meanwhile, Congress is trying to pass an economic stimulus plan. I will be talking to the man who is leading the negotiations, Bill Thomas, the powerful chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee. He will be here.
And after a decade at the top, as Wolf has just mentioned, the head of AOL Time Warner will step down. I will have an exclusive interview with CEO Jerry Levin -- all of that and a lot more coming right up at the top of the hour. Please join us.
Now back to Wolf Blitzer in Washington -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Lou.
Up next: the 99th milestone for the nation's oldest senator and the even older women who was in his life. You will want to watch this.
Stay with us.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. STROM THURMOND (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I want to thank all of you. I appreciate everyone of you, especially you ladies. Good luck and God bless you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Senator Strom Thurmond thanking his colleagues for their good wishes on his 99th birthday.
There must be something in the water in Senator's Thurmond's hometown in South Carolina. The woman who used to baby-sit him died just this week. With recent events, that's just one of stories that slipped under the radar.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THURMOND: ... all of you men, but you women even more.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Born in Edgefield, South Carolina on this day in 1902, Strom Thurmond still frisky at the grand old age of 99 -- that's impressive. But Thurmond has a long way to go to catch Lois Addy, who died Monday at 109. Back in turn-of-the-century Edgefield, Addy was -- get this -- the young Strom Thurmond's baby-sitter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LOIS ADDY, FORMER BABY-SITTER OF STROM THURMOND: Oh, yes, he was very fond of the women. That is one thing he was famous for.
I remember kissing him on the front porch of the courthouse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: In the 2000 campaign, George W. Bush teased his brother Jeb that Thanksgiving might be a little chilly if Florida went to Al Gore. On Tuesday, on a return trip to Florida, President Bush risked his own holiday chill when he broke that age-old rule: Never criticize your mother's cooking.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I did eat with my family so long as my mother wasn't cooking. Wait a minute. Just kidding, mom! She was one of the great fast-food cooks of all time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: The president apparently thought better of that comment as soon as he said it. Today, he told reporters that he called his mother right after the speech and asked her not to watch.
I'll be back in one hour with the CNN "War Room" -- among my guests, Senator Chuck Hagel. We'll talk about friendly fire.
I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. CNN's coverage of America's new war continues with "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE." That begins right now.
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