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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Is Osama bin Laden Running Out of Options?; President Debates Releasing bin Laden Tape

Aired December 10, 2001 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Today on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: "America Strikes Back." Caught on tape, but not yet caught. The president decides whether to release a videotape said to show Osama bin Laden gloating over the September 11 attacks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The body language that I saw really was just disgusting. I mean, that people would take delight in having killed innocent civilians is horrible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: He's still on the run, but is he running out of options? Opposition fighters and their U.S. allies bombed away at al Qaeda's mountain hideout.

The ultimate sacrifice: a nation remembers three green berets and a Marine-turned-CIA officer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mike was prepared to give his life in Afghanistan, because he already gave his life every day to us at home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Soon after the September 11 terrorist attacks, President Bush told the world there was evidence Osama bin Laden mastermind the plot. Today, we know there is a videotape of bin Laden masterminded the plot. Today we know there is a videotape of bin Laden talking about the attacks, and in it, clues that seem to indicate he not only knew, but was surprised about its extent.

It will not be released to the public today. We'll talk to our reporters over at the White House and on the national security beat shortly. We'll also hear from a senator who has just been watching the tape over these past few hours.

First, the day's latest developments in "America's New War." Kyra Phillips joins me from Atlanta with that -- Kyra?

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks again, Wolf.

There's a new videotape which U.S. officials say confirms Osama bin Laden's involvement in the September terrorist attacks in New York and Washington. President Bush has watched the tape and is expected to decide soon whether to release it to the public. Among other things, bin Laden reportedly says that he turned on his radio in advance to listen to reports of the attacks. We'll have much more on this in just a moment.

In a day of heavy fighting in Afghanistan's Tora Bora mountains, an opposition commander says his fighters have al Qaeda forces surrounded. He said he captured al Qaeda command centers and tunnel complexes. His reports, which have not been confirmed, came as the two sides exchanged artillery fire and as U.S. warplanes pounded al Qaeda positions.

U.S. Marines now control the American embassy in the Afghan capital of Kabul. A team from the State Department will check the condition of the building to see if it could be used again. U.S. officials closed the embassy after the Soviet withdraw from the country in 1989.

Uzbekistan has reopened a key border bridge, opening the way for desperately needed humanitarian aid for Afghanistan. Uzbekistan closed the friendship bridge five years ago, in a bid to stop the spread of the Taliban's brand of Islamic fundamentalism.

The first American killed in combat in Afghanistan was buried today in Virginia. Mike Spann was laid to rest in Arlington National Cemetery, with full Marine Corps honors. The CIA officer was killed in an uprising by Taliban prisoners. Prior to joining the CIA, Spann served as a captain in the Marine Corps.

In the West Bank, an Israeli helicopter attack in Hebron killed two Palestinian children. Seven other people were wounded, including the target of an attack, a suspected Islamic militant. Israeli officials describe the man as a senior member of the Islamic Jihad. Palestinian officials called the attack "an immoral act."

We'll be back in just about have an hour. Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: Thank you very much, Kyra.

In just a few moments, we'll have all the latest developments out of Afghanistan, including reports that Osama bin Laden now is surrounded. First, though, bin Laden's boast on videotape about the terror attacks on September 11. The Bush administration is touting the tape as a smoking gun, but officials can't yet agree on whether the public should see it. And from what the administration says, it is vintage bin Laden.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): Videotape has been a potent weapon in Osama bin Laden's arsenal, from chilling training tapes used to recruit new al Qaeda members, to vague warnings put out in advance of major terrorist attacks. And more recently, tapes released via al-Jazeera, putting his spin on the September 11 attacks.

But according to people in the Bush administration who have viewed this new tape , this video is quite different and much more revealing. Here's what Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz told me Sunday on "LATE EDITION."

PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY DEFENSE SECRETARY: Yes, he admitted on video that -- in fact, bragged and boasted about it. But he has bragged and boasted in ways that make it absolutely clear that he was responsible.

BLITZER: Unlike bin Laden's official releases, the new tape appears to offer conclusive evidence that he had prior knowledge of the World Trade Center attacks. On it, bin Laden recounts listening to the radio on the day of the attacks. After the first plane hit, he reportedly told others there will be more.

There is a lot of laughter on the tape, a party atmosphere. Bin Laden is apparently amused that some of the hijackers had no idea they were about to die, and pleased that the attacks were far more destructive than he had envisioned. All in all, the administration says it makes a convincing case.

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There is information on those tapes that again shows the world just how evil Osama bin Laden is, and how he claims piety, while leading people to deaths that they very well were not aware of.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: So when will you see the videotape? Our White House correspondent, Kelly Wallace, and our national security correspondent, David Ensor, are standing by to join us live.

But let's begin with Kelly. Kelly, in the last hour, you had some news on when we all might be seeing that videotape.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right, well, it won't be today. We can definitely tell you that. Senior U.S. officials saying that the tape definitely will not be released today. Other -- another senior U.S. official telling CNN the target date for release looks to be Wednesday. And again, this official telling CNN the administration wanting to again continue looking at the tape, assessing it, making sure that it doesn't compromise any future intelligence gathering methods.

But also, to have a translator outside the U.S. government on hand. That the tape, if and when it is released, would include the White House translation of the tape, which is in Arabic, but also have an official outside the U.S. government on hand to do some translation.

And, Wolf, as we were discussing a short time ago, this really to counter any concerns, any doubts that might still exist in the Arab and Muslim world, that the administration is in any way doctoring the tape, or is translating it in a way to better its cause, and to, you know, forward its case that it believe's bin Laden is totally responsible and behind the September 11 attacks -- Wolf.

BLITZER: You were reporting, Kelly, that there's an event tomorrow morning commemorating the third-month anniversary of the terrorist attack on September 11, and that could have been a factor in not releasing the videotape tomorrow?

WALLACE: It appears that U.S. officials, while they discuss the tape, its release, and when it should be released, definitely taking into account these events, Wolf. You will have the three-month anniversary at the time that the first plane hit the north tower at 8:46 a.m. Eastern time. President Bush hosting an event at the White House, events at the Pentagon, in New York, and in more than 70 countries.

So there was some concern, it appears, that U.S. officials certainly didn't want this release to step on what they say will be a very, very important event -- an event to show that there is an international coalition standing together against terrorism on this, the three-month mark honoring the victims of the September 11 attacks -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Kelly Wallace at the White House, thank you very much. I want to bring in our David Ensor right now, our national security correspondent, who is very well plugged in to the U.S. intelligence community.

David, I take it that intelligence officials are not overly concerned about the potential damage to what's called sources an methods that the release of this tape could result in.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NAT'L SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Officials I have spoken to, Wolf, are not concerned about that. They are also not talking about how they got this tape. They are giving no specifics whatsoever, and saying that if you see reports that there are specifics, be wary of them. They, however, think that this tape will be very damaging to bin Laden.

It's not a propaganda tape, the way we've seen in the past. On this tape, they say -- people who have looked at the tape, you see bin Laden saying that he tuned into the radio early, in hopes on September 11 of hearing reporting about the event that was going to happen. Saying that he knew several days ahead that this was going to be the day that the attacks were conducted.

And expressing surprise and pleasure, that so much damage was done to the World Trade Center towers. Saying, Wolf, that he didn't expect them to collapse the way they did. And he was very pleased by that. And generally boasting about the whole thing, and expressing amusement that some of the people who -- some of the 19 hijackers didn't even know they were going to die in those planes.

BLITZER: We don't know exactly how the U.S. government, obviously, got this tape. But we do know the white house press secretary, Ari Fleischer, in his daily briefing, which aired here on "CNN LIVE" earlier today, specifically said they found it in a private home in Jalalabad, in the eastern part of Afghanistan. ENSOR: That's true. But officials I have spoken to say that isn't the whole story. It's a bit more complicated than that, and they don't want to give us the details, for obvious reasons. They'd like to be able to get more of these tapes, if there are such things. What's striking, they say, about this tape, it's an amateur tape. The audio is not very good. The video is quite good. And it's just so blunt.

BLITZER: And they've had it for some time, haven't they?

ENSOR: They've had it, I gather, for about two weeks.

BLITZER: And the original tape was taken early November? Is that when the tape was made?

ENSOR: The tape has "November 9" burned in the corner, you know, the way camcorders do. But of course, if you didn't leave the battery in, that could be the wrong date. But they think it was probably filmed around then.

BLITZER: And they're convinced it's authentic?

ENSOR: Absolutely.

BLITZER: OK, David Ensor, thank you very much.

With fighting raging at Tora Bora, the Pentagon today said the Taliban's army chief of staff had been captured. Joining us now with more on that and the Tora Bora campaign, our CNN military affairs correspondent, Jamie McIntyre. That's the army chief of staff of the Taliban, is that right, Jamie?

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That's what we're being told by sources here at the Pentagon, Wolf. Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz said during today's regular Pentagon briefing that two or three senior Taliban officials were in the hands of opposition forces. Sources at the Pentagon, confirming to us that one of those captured senior Taliban leaders is a man named Mohammed (ph) Fazel, who is described by Pentagon sources as essentially the chief of staff of the army for the Taliban.

Another official told us of a second captured senior Taliban official, named Mullah del Dallah (ph), who is also described essentially as a senior Pentagon official -- senior Taliban official. The focus now remains on the Tora Bora area and the cave complexes, where the U.S. believes that bin Laden and his al Qaeda fighters are holed up.

They have been bombing those areas, trying to close the entrances of caves. And over the weekend, the Pentagon acknowledges it used one of those 15,000-pound BLU-82 bombs, sometimes called the daisy cutter, against a concentration of al Qaeda forces. These huge weapons were originally designed during the Vietnam War to clear vegetation, to make an instant landing zone for helicopters.

It's a hugely powerful weapon that's dropped from a parachute out of the back of a C-130. And it was dropped on an area where intelligence indicated that either bin Laden or some of his al Qaeda forces were operating, near one of these cave complexes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REAR ADM. JOHN STUFFLEBEEM, JOINT STAFF DEPUTY OPS. DIRECTOR: There is a psychological effect of having ammunition, 15,000 pounds of explosive capability, that's brought into a very narrowly defined area. This cave complex is literally on the sheer walls of a valley, and therefore the reverberation effect that goes up in those caves should have some kind of negative effect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCINTYRE: The Pentagon says it knows that a number of people were killed when that huge bomb went off, but they don't know how many or exactly who they were.

Meanwhile, the U.S. is bringing home some of its forces. Pentagon sources confirm that the USS Kitty Hawk, the aircraft carrier that was cleared of most of its aircraft to serve as a floating base for special operations forces, has now left the waters off Pakistan. Some of the troops that were on that aircraft carrier have returned to the United States. Others have gone to other bases in the region.

And sources say that another aircraft carrier, the Carl Vinson, will soon be coming home, to be replaced by the USS John Stennis, within the next few days -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon, thank you very much.

And over in eastern Afghanistan, the hunt for Osama bin Laden is shaping up to be the major battle of the Afghan war. Opposition fighters backed by tanks and U.S. warplanes are locked in heavy fighting with Al Qaeda forces in the Tora Bora mountains. American troops are also involved in the fighting. Al Qaeda forces are fighting back with mortars and machine guns.

An anti-Taliban commander says he is convinced that bin Laden is in the area. And he says his men have the al Qaeda surrounded, that they have captured command centers and tunnels. His reports could not be independently confirmed. But joining us now is David Isby of the British publication, "Jane's Intelligence Review."

You have some insight on what's happening at Tora Bora right now. What's happening over there?

DAVID ISBY, "JANE'S INTELLIGENCE REVIEW": Certainly, it seems to be very intense fighting, more intense than perhaps you have seen elsewhere in the war. And even if bin Laden isn't there, because where this is where the al Qaeda hard core is, you literally have to dig them out. Certainly, firepower will help. Otherwise, it's like Iwo Jima, digging enemies out of caves, which is very costly.

BLITZER: But presumably, bin Laden is not alone, or with only one or two of his aides. He's got a significant security force around him, which should make it easier, in effect, to find out where he is.

ISBY: Bin Laden normally has a big footprint. He used to travel in large, multi-vehicle convoys. He may have stopped this. And indeed, if he's trying to leave, he's probably going to leave them all behind and just go, one or two Afghans who can speak the language.

BLITZER: What's your take on this videotape of Osama bin Laden, presumably in early November, boasting about September 11 and this whole back-and-forth debate within the administration about releasing it?

ISBY: Well, this of course come to the whole issue of information, warfare information, operations, trying to win the battle of ideas, especially in the Islamic world. And certainly, the administration has been aware that they're starting well behind the power curve in this, and that America's adversaries have certainly enjoyed almost uncontradicted statements.

So this is why I think they're very keen, in especially a region which just loves conspiracy theories, to make sure they have an independent translation, which is very unusual for the U.S. government to say we're going to provide this.

BLITZER: As much as all of us love conspiracy theories, some of these conspiracy theories are totally out of the realm of possibility to you and me and most westerners. But within the Muslim world, within parts of the Arab world, they seem to believe some of the most outrageous things about the September 11 attacks, don't they?

ISBY: Certainly they do, and to a large extent, it's convenient. It answers the larger question, well, if we're so great and a good society, why is everything so messed up? And they said, well, there is a conspiracy against us, which is expressed in all these outlandish ways.

And indeed, in a world in which Afghanistan could be liberated very quickly, certainly, then, this could be an American fake, the same way they think the Americans faked the moon landing.

BLITZER: You mean, these two Twin Tower buildings and the Pentagon -- that that's just video imagery?

ISBY: No, they think the bin Laden tape of him doing this, this could be the Americans using a Walt Disney "audiomatronic" bin Laden. You know, that's the sort of thing that the Pakistani press loves. Like I said, it answers a deep-felt political need. Why are things bad? There is this tremendous conspiracy against us. And this is why it's very hard to have this large battle of ideas, because bin Laden wants to have a clash of cultures.

BLITZER: To those that hate the United States, will releasing this tape, do you believe, will make any impact whatsoever?

ISBY: It may not, but certainly, it's the cumulative effect. It shows the United States is not acquiescing by silence, as it did over the years, to what had come out throughout the Islamic, accusing them of everything else. And I think, even more importantly, were things like the images from Kabul, of the Afghan's rejoicing at going back to the movie theater. These are important, as the images of the B-52s and their destruction, showing that both the good things that come when al Qaeda was defeated.

BLITZER: All right, David Isby of "Jane's Intelligence Review," always good to have you on the program. Thanks for your insight. And we're now told President Bush may have comments on all this, including the videotape. He's lighting the Menorah on this second night of Hanukkah. We will get pictures of the president. We'll also get his comments later in this program. Stay with us.

In the meantime, should the Osama bin Laden tape be released to the public? You can cast your vote on-line. Go to our home page, cnn.com. We'll have the results later this hour.

And the former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia, Wyche Fowler, joins me tonight in the "CNN WAR ROOM." That's at 7:00 p.m. Eastern, 4:00 Pacific. You can participate, by the way, in our discussion. Go to my Web site, cnn.com/wolf. Click the icon "Send Questions," and I'll pass them along to our panel.

By the way, that's where you can also read my daily on-line column. Stick around. You'll be hearing shortly from Senator Richard Shelby, the vice chairman of the Senate intelligence committee. He's been watching that videotape of Osama bin Laden these past few hours. That's less than a half an hour from now. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. We have been following developments on the release of a White House-obtained videotape of Osama bin Laden reportedly saying that he knew all about the September 11 attacks, indeed, was involved in the planning. President Bush only a few moments ago spoke about that, after a lighting of the Menorah ceremony at the White House. Here's the president. He's about to begin speaking.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And how right and just our cause is. I couldn't imagine somebody like Osama bin Laden understanding the joy of Hanukkah, or the joy of Christmas, of celebrating peace and hope. This man wants to destroy any semblance of civilization for his own power and his own good.

He's so evil that he's willing to send young men to commit suicide while he hides in caves. And while we celebrate peace and lightness, I fully understand, in order to make sure peace and lightness exists in the future we must bring him to justice, and we will. But for those who see this tape, they'll realize that not only is he guilty of incredible murder, he has no conscience and no soul, that he represents the worst of civilization.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: The president and the first lady at a ceremony on this second night of Hanukkah, the lighting of the Menorah, the president speaking informally to reporters just then, speaking about Osama bin Laden, calling him a man with no conscience, the worst of civilization, an evil man.

Once again, President Bush not telling us anything about the controversial videotape that the White House has obtained, reportedly showing Osama bin Laden confessing to the September 11 terrorist attacks here in the United States. But President Bush, mincing no words in blasting the al Qaeda leader. We're going to continue to follow this story.

Straight ahead, the latest developments, though, in America's war on terror. Also, who is in charge of Kandahar? The Taliban are gone, but the guns are not.

And, they paid the ultimate price. We'll have a last farewell to casualties of war.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: I'll be talking live to Senator Richard Shelby, the vice chairman of the Senate intelligence committee. He spent much of this afternoon looking at that videotape of Osama bin Laden, reportedly confessing to his role in the September 11 terrorist attacks. We'll also go to Kandahar, where there has been some important developments today as well.

But first, let's go to Kyra Phillips for the latest developments in the war -- Kyra.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, again, Wolf. Well, the trail to Osama bin Laden may be getting hotter. A rebel commander claims he has bin Laden surrounded amid the steep mountain peaks near Tora Bora. The commander tells CNN that the circle around bin Laden is less than two square miles. This claim cannot be confirmed. What we can report, though, is ferocious fighting around the mountain, including United States airstrikes.

Marines have taken control of the abandoned U.S. embassy in the Afghan capital of Kabul. The United States withdrew from the embassy amid the retreat of the Soviet Union, all the way back in 1989.

U.S. officials say John Walker, the captured Taliban fighter, is providing information about his former Taliban commanders. Walker is the only known prisoner being held at the U.S. Marine compound south of Kandahar. U.S. officials say they have yet to decide how to handle his case.

The White House says the much discussed videotape of Osama bin Laden will not be released today. Now they are saying Wednesday, at the earliest. U.S. officials say the tape shows bin Laden had advance knowledge of the terror attacks on September 11.

Wolf, back to you. BLITZER: Thank you very much, Kyra.

And in the chaos of victory, anti-Taliban officials are quickly finding out that restoring peace and order to Kandahar is no easy job. Since the fall of the Taliban's last stronghold on Friday, tension remains high, in large part because of disagreements and mistrust among rival opposition factions.

CNN's Nic Robertson is in Kandahar and he has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the Kandahar governor's office, years of Taliban neglect are being swept away, consigned to history, as the new political force moves in. For military commanders, a chance to rest and reflect.

"I'll be happy when I see the boys and girls going to school and getting an education to build their country."

For the new political figures, including recently appointed Governor Gul Agha Sherzai, the work is only just beginning, building support among local leaders the priority, building popularity in the city essential.

In a gesture likely calculated to achieve just that, the new governor released some 1,200 prisoners held by the Taliban -- each former prisoner given about $16 cash to aid their return home, real money here -- such benevolence necessary, as intertribal tensions are not fully unresolved.

YOUSEFF PASHTOON, ANTI-TALIBAN OFFICIAL: I am not satisfied, quite frankly, with the situation of the security, because there's hundreds of people here with arms are still at large in the streets, which is potentially a danger for any civilian society.

ROBERTSON: That American special forces in the city accompany the new governor to his potentially more dangerous meetings, a hint perhaps that the stakes are high and a lot rides on Gul Agha's success.

Emerging to applause following his late-night inauguration as governor, there seems little question of his authority now, especially if his aides are to be believed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Gul Agha Sherzai has got the civil and military power at this moment.

(on camera): Putting his political house in order will likely take Kandahar's new governor many, many more meetings. If he can keep them all cordial, then perhaps Kandahar can enjoy a smooth transition from Taliban rule.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Kandahar, Afghanistan.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER: It was a somber day at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, where three soldiers killed last week in Afghanistan were remembered as heroes; 39-year-old Master Sergeant Jefferson Davis, 32-year-old Sergeant 1st Class Daniel Petithory and 28-year-old Staff Sergeant Brian Cody Prosser were killed when a U.S. bomb missed its target.

At the ceremony, family members wiped away tears as the men's names were each called out during a final symbolic roll call. Their boots, berets and dog tags were displayed during the service.

Family and friends of the first American to die in actual fighting in Afghanistan also said their final goodbyes. CIA officer and former Marine Captain Johnny Michael Spann was buried with full military honors at Arlington National Cemetery today.

Here's more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE TENET, CIA DIRECTOR: Here today in American soil, we lay to lasting rest an American hero. United in loss in sorrow, we are united as well in our reverence for the timeless virtues upon which Mike Spann shaped his life, virtues for which he ultimately gave his life: dignity, decency, bravery, liberty.

And may God bless those who love and miss him and all who carry on the noble work that he began.

SHANNON SPANN, MIKE SPANN'S WIDOW: He said to children and to me that he wished that people would simply speak from their heart, but the trouble is, as I stand here today, my heart is broken. It broke when it fell to the ground two Sundays ago in a place really far from here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: In the Middle East today, an Israeli helicopter attack on a suspected Islamic militant left the militant wounded, but it also killed two boys, both Palestinians, ages 3 and 13. The raid served to complicate peacekeeping efforts by the U.S. envoy, the retired Marine General Anthony Zinni. And it overshadowed a statement by European foreign ministers calling on Yasser Arafat to dismantle radical groups on lands controlled by the Palestinians.

Now let's turn to other stories making news around the world. Secretary of State Colin Powell says the United States and Russia are very close to an agreement on missile cuts, but still have differences about a U.S. missile defense system. Powell made the comments after meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin and the Russian foreign minister, Igor Ivanov, in Moscow.

An Iraqi official says his country wants to end its problems with the United States. Iraq's deputy prime minister, Tariq Aziz, calls for dialogue to solve disputes, on the condition the U.S. -- quote -- "renounces the policy of aggression and threats." The comments come amid speculation Iraq may be the next target in the U.S.-led war on terrorism.

And United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan and the organization he leads today accepted the Nobel Peace Prize in Oslo, Norway. They'll share it equally for their efforts to achieve peace and security in the world. In his remarks, Annan repeatedly referred to the September 11 attacks, saying the world entered the third millennium -- quote -- "through a gate of fire."

The Osama bin Laden tape and what it might say about guilt or innocence -- we'll talk to someone who's actually seen it. And should all of America see it? That debate straight ahead.

And we'll take you under the radar to look at some important issues no one seems to be focusing on right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

As we mentioned earlier, U.S. officials have obtained a videotape that they say confirms Osama bin Laden's involvement in the September 11 terrorist attacks.

Joining us now to talk about that, the Republican senator, Richard Shelby, of Alabama. Senator Shelby is, of course, the vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

Senator Shelby, thanks for joining us.

SENATOR RICHARD SHELBY (R), ALABAMA: Thank you.

BLITZER: You spent a big chunk of this afternoon looking at that videotape. Tell us what you saw.

SHELBY: Well, basically, what I saw was an acknowledgement by Osama bin Laden, in his own words and by his own gestures, of his involvement in the planning and knowledge, foreknowledge of the attack on 9/11.

It was a sad situation to look at that tape, in a way, because they seemed to be happy. They seemed to be gloating of the events that brought death and destruction to the United States.

BLITZER: But, specifically, how -- the smoking gun. How did he acknowledge it? Did he confess? Did he say he had advanced knowledge? Did he plot the attack?

SHELBY: Well, all of that was in there. I will not talk about -- because this is classified now -- the specifics.

But I can tell you that this is a big acknowledgement. This is an important piece of evidence. And I think it ought to be released to the world. But that will be up to the policymakers -- that's the president and the secretary of defense and others -- to do that. And I believe it will be. Now, the timing is what is important.

We do not ever want to compromise sources and methods. Perhaps we will have other information besides this tape that will go farther.

BLITZER: But Osama bin Laden was, of course, speaking in Arabic.

SHELBY: He was.

BLITZER: Was there a translation?

SHELBY: Absolutely.

BLITZER: A simultaneous translation?

SHELBY: No. We had the transcript that was translated into English. And then we had an Arabic speaker telling us as he was going over the tape and stopping and explaining.

BLITZER: So members of intelligence committee were watching this?

SHELBY: Well, I was by myself at that time. I had a lot of other people.

BLITZER: You are the vice chairman. And you brought with your staff with you to watch it, is that it?

SHELBY: Right.

BLITZER: The whole nature of this tape -- why are they delaying releasing if, when all is said and done, they want to convince large chunks of the Arab world, the Muslim world, that there is no doubt Osama bin Laden planned this attack?

SHELBY: Well, that would be up to the administration to do it -- when -- I believe they will release it. I think it's in their interests to release it. But, I am going to say again, sometimes you do something prematurely and it compromises sources and methods. I'm not saying that is why, but that could be a reason.

BLITZER: When you watched Osama bin Laden -- I take it, it's about 40 minutes of this tape, almost an hour -- when you watched him talking about all of this, what was the biggest surprise that went through your mind?

SHELBY: My biggest surprise was that he seemed so happy. And the audience that he was talking to, the person he was talking to seemed real happy of the events. And, basically, he was bragging about what he knew and actually telling them that the events were a lot more destructive than they even dreamed would be.

BLITZER: And does he say that they originally thought -- and this has been reported -- that only the tops of the World Trade Center would be destroyed, but not necessarily the entire building?

SHELBY: I'm not going to say what he said specifically. I can tell you, again, that he was genuinely pleased that the destruction went far above what he thought would happen.

BLITZER: Who is in the audience that he is addressing and making these comments?

SHELBY: Well, he is addressing it to a very important person in the world, the Muslim world, that he wanted to talk with.

BLITZER: Can you release that person's name?

SHELBY: I cannot do that.

BLITZER: But, presumably, we will know that at some point...

SHELBY: It will come out.

BLITZER: ... when you release it. But at this point...

SHELBY: I cannot do that.

BLITZER: So what does it all say? When all is said and done right now -- you are the vice chairman of the Intelligence Committee. No one in United States, or at least very few in the United States have had any doubt for some time. But when all is said and done, what is this going to mean, the release of this tape, once it comes out?

SHELBY: It is going to do -- just like Vice President Cheney and Secretary Wolfowitz said, it is going to show the world that Osama bin Laden was definitely centrally a biggest player in the events of 9/11.

BLITZER: And that he personally organized and orchestrated the entire operation?

SHELBY: Was all involved in it.

BLITZER: While I have you, you signed that letter last week to President Bush saying Iraq should be the next target. Do you have any reason to believe he is going to listen to you?

SHELBY: I don't know if he will listen at this point. I think the president will do things in a measured way. I think he's doing very well. But I believe Secretary Wolfowitz, again, is right in this area. As long as Saddam Hussein is in power in Iraq, I don't believe we will be safe in this part of the world.

BLITZER: You are one of the few members of the Senate actually having met Saddam Hussein just before the Iraqis invaded Kuwait.

SHELBY: Senator Specter and I spent a couple of hours with him in Baghdad in 1990. We knew then he was a dangerous man. We didn't know how dangerous. Now we know.

BLITZER: And he is still around.

SHELBY: He's a survivor.

BLITZER: Senator Shelby, thanks for joining us. SHELBY: Thank you.

BLITZER: Appreciate it.

And should the bin Laden tape be released to the public? That's in the "CROSSFIRE" tonight, 7:30 p.m. Eastern, 4:30 on the West Coast.

And you can get more insight into the bin Laden tape, "LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN WITH CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR." She'll be speaking to Peter Bergen, who has actually interviewed bin Laden and is the author of the new best-seller, "Unholy War, Inc." That's at 8:00 Eastern, 5:00 Pacific.

Should the U.S. release the bin Laden tape for public viewing? That was the question we've been asking on our CNN.com home page. So far, the vote is overwhelmingly to let everyone see it -- not a huge surprise.

On Friday, Bush administration officials told the mining industry to expect a more favorable relationship with the government now that George W. Bush is president. They said the Bush administration would work to soften restrictions on mining on public lands that were passed in the final days of the Clinton administration. But none of that has generated a whole lot of attention.

When we come back, Bill Schneider will join us. He will point out what is going on.

Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): One day after the terrorist attacks, the Sierra Club sent out a memo to its staff, saying -- quote -- "For now, we are going to stop aggressively pushing our agenda and we'll cease bashing President Bush."

So, what did the environmentalists get in return for their cease- fire? Moves by the Bush administration to reverse the phase-out of snowmobiles in national parks, to make it easier for developers to eliminate wetlands, to block the reintroduction of grizzly bears in Western forests. Why was there no controversy? Because it happened under the radar.

When the Bush administration moved to allow more road building in national forests...

KEVIN CURTIS, NATIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL TRUST: They've been able to do that with no public attention.

SCHNEIDER: ... and to make it easier for mining companies to dig on public lands...

CURTIS: They've been able to move forward since September 11, and really with no public attention. SCHNEIDER: ... and to ease up on energy efficiency standards for air conditioners.

CURTIS: They're able to do that because there's no public attention.

SCHNEIDER: And to ease requirements for power plant cleanup.

CURTIS: It has generated very little controversy and attention.

SCHNEIDER: However, the administration has made a determined effort to keep one issue on the radar screen: energy security.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We spent a lot of time talking about homeland security. And an integral piece of homeland security is energy independence.

SCHNEIDER: On that issue, environmentalists really do have a lot to say.

SCOTT SEGAL, INDUSTRIAL LOBBYIST: They, too, can highlight issues, like energy conservation, for example.

SCHNEIDER: Listen to them.

CURTIS: Reduce our reliance on oil. Reduce our reliance on fossil fuels. Promote the use of cleaner, greener, renewable, cheaper technologies that, if successful, really would reduce our reliance on imported oil.

SCHNEIDER: The problem is, not many people are listening to them. The president has a bigger megaphone, particularly in a time of crisis. Moreover, on energy issues, environmentalists don't have a lot of credibility. But this administration does.

SEGAL: I think that, at this day and time, experience in the energy industry can be viewed as a positive and something that the president and the vice president will accentuate.

SCHNEIDER: What used to be a political liability for Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney -- their ties to the energy industry -- has become an advantage now that energy security has moved up on the nation's agenda.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER: Now, according to "The Los Angeles Times," the Bush administration recently told an industry group that it will use the results of studies that test pesticides on paid human subjects, something the Clinton administration had stopped. The Sierra Club says the cease-fire is over.

BLITZER: And is there some response that you are getting, Bill, from the White House to all of this?

SCHNEIDER: Well, we contacted them. And when confronted with this criticism, the White House complained that environmentalists are quick to criticize outreach policies that are not exactly what they want, but they are noticeably muted when the administration does things they should like -- for instance, upholding Clinton administration standards on arsenic in drinking water and raising energy efficiency standards for air conditioners.

No matter what we do, the White House says, these environmentalists will not be satisfied.

BLITZER: Good work. Bill Schneider, thank you very much.

Now some stories from today's "Newswire."

The Federal Reserve officials says they're checking about 600 letters in a mail bin that came up positive for anthrax in preliminary tests. A Fed spokesman said some of the mail was postmarked in October, when the first anthrax-contaminated letters to Congress and the media were discovered.

Middletown, New Jersey teachers returned to their classrooms today as their contract dispute with the school district heads to mediation. Last week, a judge sent 228 of the striking teachers to jail for ignoring his back-to-work order. They were freed Friday after agreeing to return to class.

The International Space Station got a tune-up from two crew members of the space shuttle Endeavor. Astronaut Linda Godwin and Daniel Tani ventured outside the shuttle to make repairs on motors that help rotate the station's giant solar winds.

The Supreme Court today allowed certain student-led prayers at public high school graduations. It rejected an appeal arguing that they violate constitutional requirements on church-state separation. The case stemmed from a policy in Duval County, Florida which allows prayers during graduation when the decision has been made by student referendum.

And religion seems to be on the minds of more than just Supreme Court judges. Some of the nation's largest Bible publishers say sales of the books are on the rise following September 11. If the trend continues until the end of the year, publishers say they could see -- get this -- record numbers.

Let's go to New York now and get a preview of "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE." That begins, of course, at the top of the hour. He is standing by, Lou Dobbs -- Lou.

LOU DOBBS, "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE": Wolf, thank you.

The hunt for Osama bin Laden intensifying tonight -- U.S. air strikes are continuing against the al Qaeda network in the mountains of Tora Bora, where bin Laden is thought to be hiding. We will have a live report for you from Afghanistan. We'll be joined by CNN military analyst, General Donald Shepperd.

We will also be joined tonight by Donald Marron, the chairman of UBS America. We'll be talking about the state of this economy in the grips of recession and what Washington is doing about it. And despite the dramatic slowdown in travel, Cendant is thriving. Business is good. Its stock has more than doubled. I will be talking with the man behind Cendant's success, its CEO, Henry Silverman.

We will also take a look at those fouled-up college football bowl selections. We'll take a look at the big business of college football -- all of that and a lot more at the top of the hour -- now back to Wolf Blitzer in Washington -- Wolf.

BLITZER: A very full program. Thank you very much, Lou.

And straight ahead, the president hits the books: his Christmas at the White House. That is coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

'Tis the season for Hanukkah, the Jewish Festival of Lights. New York's ground zero is a little brighter after last night's lighting of an 8-foot-tall menorah. An 18-month old girl whose father was among those killed in the World Trade Center lit the first candle, as rescue workers and several family members of victims looked on.

And here in Washington, President Bush lit a 100-year old menorah today on loan from the Jewish Museum in New York.

Earlier today, the president read classic holiday stories to a group of Virginia first graders. The children attend an elementary school located less than a mile from the Pentagon. They were on the playground the morning of September 11. And they heard the hijacked plane hit the Pentagon. And they saw smoke from the crash. The White House hopes a presidential reading of "The Night Before Christmas" would leave them a little bit happier memories.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

G. BUSH: 'Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house, not a creature was stirring, not even a...

LAURA BUSH, FIRST LADY: Mouse.

CHILDREN: Mouse.

G. BUSH: And momma in her kerchief and I in my cap had just settled down for a long winter's...

L. BUSH: Nap.

G. BUSH: .. when out in the lawn there arose such a clatter, I sprang from my bed to see what was the matter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Very nice job. And I'll be back in one hour. The former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia, Wyche Fowler, will join me here in the CNN "War Room." That's at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. And, tomorrow, the former defense secretary, Caspar Weinberger, joins me here at 5:00 p.m. Eastern.

Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. CNN's coverage of America's new war continues with "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE." And, of course, that begins right now.

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