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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Can the U.S. Smoke Out Osama bin Laden With Bombs?; When Will Americans See the bin Laden Tape?

Aired December 12, 2001 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Now on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: "America Strikes Back."

Zeroing in on Tora Bora, boxing in Osama bin Laden. Can the U.S. smoke him out with bombs?

Tape delay. When can you see the video of bin Laden, said to show him laughing at the carnage that was wrought? The devil, it seems is in the details.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Really, it's just a matter of being diligent, thorough and accurate, prior to releasing something to the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Four thousand miles of unguarded border has never seemed a threat, until now. We'll speak to Canada's foreign minister about keeping the frontier free but secure.

And a report of a new threat comes from John Walker. What should we make of the news from the American turned Taliban?

Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. When we began work this morning, we planned to analyze a videotape of Osama bin Laden of said to show him boasting about the September 11 attacks. But the tape remains very much unseen by the public, at least as of this moment, as the Bush administration makes sure nothing gets lost in the translation from the Arabic.

However, it's not been a day lacking of breaking news. We have new details on the hunt for bin Laden, and whether he is indeed still in Afghanistan. There is a crackdown on terrorist organizations following a deadly attack on an Israeli bus. Texas schools here in the United States are the target of a terrorist threat.

And the No. 2 man in the U.S. House of Representatives calls it a career. Later this hour, we'll have the first interview with the House majority leader, Dick Armey, since his retirement announcement earlier this morning. First, let's begin with the latest developments. White House sources tell us that the much talked-about Osama bin Laden videotape is not expected to be released today. U.S. official who have seen the tape say it proves bin Laden was behind the September terrorist attacks. Administration sources say the delay is due to the poor quality of the tape.

Heavy U.S. airstrikes resumed over Afghanistan's eastern Tora Bora mountains. This, after a surrender deadline passed for al Qaeda forces holed up in the area. Opposition fighters supported by U.S. special forces also went back on the attack, pounding al Qaeda positions with tank and mortar fire. Osama bin Laden is believed to be hiding in the area.

All four crew members are safe after their B-1 bomber crashed today in the Indian Ocean. The crew was picked up by a U.S. Navy destroyer. All four crew members are reported to be in good condition.

The American captured with Taliban forces warns of more al Qaeda terror attacks within days. U.S. officials play down the report, saying it's unlikely John Walker has any idea what top al Qaeda leaders are planning. Walker is being held by U.S. Marines in southern Afghanistan.

Israeli warplanes hit targets in Gaza and the West Bank, in retaliation for Palestinian attacks. No immediate word on casualties. Earlier, Palestinian gunmen ambushed a bus in the West Bank, killing 10 people and wounding 30. Almost the same time in Gaza, two suicide bombers blew themselves up near an Israeli settlement. Four settlers were wounded. The Palestinian Authority now says it will close the offices of Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad organization.

The leader of the militant Jewish Defense League is in federal custody for allegedly planning to blow up Arab-American and Muslim sites in the Los Angeles area. Irv Rubin and another JDL member, Earl Krugel, were arrested in early-morning raids.

Let's continue now with the hunt for Osama bin Laden that intensified today in the Tora Bora mountains of eastern Afghanistan. Opposition forces, backed by heavy U.S. airstrikes, resumed their offensive against bin Laden's al Qaeda fighters after the passing of a "surrender or die" ultimatum.

CNN's Brent Sadler is near the front lines and he has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A possible surrender of the al Qaeda terror group from stronghold positions they have in the White Mountains passed with nothing materializing here on the ground. However, after many hours of discussions, Eastern Alliance Afghan tribal warriors put another deal on the table to al Qaeda, offering them that they could have all their fighters walk free from here, on the fundamental condition that Osama bin Laden himself surrenders to the alliance, along with about 20 or so of his top lieutenants, the very core of the al Qaeda terror network.

Now, there's been no response from the al Qaeda network to that offer. And indeed, it seems very difficult to work out how the details of that could be implemented, and whether or not that might be acceptable to any of the international parties involved in the coalition against terror.

Now, at the same time, as we saw the passing of an ultimatum to surrender earlier in the day in Afghanistan here, we saw a resumption of U.S. air activity over the White Mountains where the Tora Bora stronghold is located -- B-52 heavy bombers, circling high overhead in 360 degrees tight turns. And then we saw a resumption of heavy bombing, plumes of smoke and thunderous explosions, roaring down the valleys from Tora Bora, as there were repeated airstrikes by U.S. warplanes against al Qaeda positions.

Now, it was also impossible this day to go forward to where alliance fighters had been able to gain ground, just 24 hours earlier, against al Qaeda, where we had seen a complex, a terror training base, formerly occupied by al Qaeda, abandoned, deserted after being obliterated by sustained U.S. bombing. We got to see some of the caves and saw abandoned weapons and ammunition discarded around the place.

Now, we also understand, from eyewitness reports, that in that advanced area we got to 24 hours earlier, that there has been a significant deployment of special forces. There have been eyewitness accounts of westerners wearing tribal Afghan clothing, carrying U.S.- made weapons. That, coming at the same time as the Eastern Alliance leadership is saying that their core issue right now is to get bin Laden.

And they believe, it seems, otherwise they wouldn't have made this offer, presumably, that they believe there is a chance that Osama bin Laden is still in the Tora Bora area, still commanding fighters. If he gives himself up, along with his top aides, there could be, possibly, they believe, a peaceful end to the siege of Tora Bora.

If not, they will continue with a wholesale offensive on the ground. That, coupled with continuing U.S. airstrikes.

Brent Sadler, CNN, near Tora Bora in the White Mountains of eastern Afghanistan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: As to the exact whereabouts of bin Laden, U.S. officials are mincing no words, saying they think he is still in Afghanistan. A Pentagon spokeswoman today said she's seen no evidence suggesting that bin Laden has escaped.

Officials were responding to a "Christian Science Monitor" report that bin Laden may have fled to Pakistan some 10 days ago. CNN's national security correspondent, David Ensor, is following all of these developments. He joins us now live.

David, what's the very latest, as far as the hunt for Osama bin Laden is concerned?

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the "Christian Science Monitor" reported, quoting one person who is described as an al Qaeda financier, saying that Osama bin Laden left Afghanistan and went into Pakistan about 10 days ago.

But U.S. officials across the government, the State Department, White House and other agencies, are saying they are highly skeptical of that report. One official said that -- one knowledgeable official told me that he has recent indications that Osama bin Laden is still in Afghanistan. So that is still the operating theory of the U.S. government, although officials say they can't entirely rule out that bin Laden might have left the country. They do not think he has, however -- Wolf.

BLITZER: David, are they at all specific when they say they have some recent indications he is still in Afghanistan, what they mean by that?

ENSOR: As of yesterday, for example, officials were still saying that they believed that bin Laden was in the Tora Bora area. That doesn't necessarily mean exactly that cave complex. There are in fact three cave complexes in a sort of larger area -- could be in any one of those three. As of yesterday, they were saying they still thought he was in that area.

These officials I talked to today are simply saying they still think he is in the country. They think the "Christian Science Monitor" report is probably not correct.

BLITZER: David, stand by, because I want to bring you back shortly on a different subject. But right now I want to pick up this conversation with David Isby of "Jane's Intelligence Review."

Thank you, David, very much for joining us. What's your take on this "Christian Science Monitor" report, that Osama bin Laden may have emerged in Pakistan over the past 10 days?

DAVID ISBY, "JANE'S INTELLIGENCE REVIEW": Well, why -- certainly it is possible. One of the key things about an escape and evasion plan is, you've got to let as few people know as possible. If you let financiers know, you're going to let Pakistani intelligence know. And they may pick you up in a safe house on the other side of the border.

So the key thing is, the fact is if you are going to escape and evade, because you are literally abandoning your family, your closest allies, who you're expecting to fight to the death, you've got to keep it very quiet. So I'm a little suspicious of this report.

BLITZER: You know, the Tora Bora area, as you know, we can put a map up, show our viewers that it's very, very close to the situation -- the border with Pakistan.

ISBY: Yes.

BLITZER: And that border is not very well protected. ISBY: The Pakistanis have moved additional troops there today. He could indeed try and go there, or he could move further south in Afghanistan, heading for other cave complexes, down to Baghlan and Paktia, or perhaps even Tologa (ph) province. But again, movement makes him vulnerable.

BLITZER: The Pentagon did some F-14 strikes, some gun camera pictures today, showing the nature of some of these strikes. I want to put some of that up there, and let's talk about it a little bit. You see it right there.

If you watch some of these images coming up, you could even make out some people on the ground. Take a look very closely. Those are pretty precise, those pictures, and they're pretty terrifying as well.

ISBY: Yes, this is what they call a 40-K optic. It's a sensor that's effective up to 40,000 feet. And the Tomcat, called the bomb cat, is very good at delivering laser-guided one-ton bombs. And so much of what we're doing is just going up the hills so the special operations forces guys can put a laser designation on each cave mouth.

In turn, have the Tomcat come, put a bomb on it, see if there's anyone still there. If there is, you put another bomb on it. They come back. So that's basically the very slow process of going up the hill without losing too many people.

BLITZER: But they do have a much bigger bomb, the daisy cutter, the 15,000-pound bomb, which has a specific purpose in the hunt for bin Laden. Tell us about it.

ISBY: Right. Well, in recent days they dropped one of these BOU-82s, the daisy cutter, great big 15,000-pound bomb. One of the things is, it makes such tremendous sound and fury when it detonates, literally people think it's a nuclear weapon. Indeed, in the Gulf War in 1991, a British SAS team saw one go off, and sent a perfectly formatted NATO new debt report, that someone had detonated a nuclear bomb.

So when this thing went off, they were hoping that all of the communication circuits would light up. "What was that? What was that great big noise? Is the boss OK? Did he hit the boss?"

The other thing about dropping a great big bomb is if they've got encrypted radios, you compare the message right after the last time you dropped one of these for your code breaking, saying, let's assume both these messages said something close to, "they've just dropped a great big bomb, it's terrible." And then you try and look for the similarities and break their codes.

BLITZER: Is it assumed still that Osama bin Laden and his key lieutenants are using some of those frequencies to communicate at this late stage?

ISBY: Certainly, if they don't, then their defenses can't be integrated. They do have secure phones, but I suspect any communication is certainly subject, if not being decrypted, then at least being used to triangulate, to traffic analysis, to find out who is where. And unless he's going to rely on runners or, you know -- field phones won't survive the bombardment.

BLITZER: Old-fashioned communications. Very briefly, button up the hunt for Osama bin Laden right now.

ISBY: Probably stay in Tora Bora, but he may have gone 10 days ago.

BLITZER: Your intelligence is probably just as effective as anyone else's.

(LAUGHTER)

ISBY: Afraid so.

BLITZER: Thanks for joining us.

And while the hunt for Osama bin Laden continues, there is a new warning of a possible al Qaeda terrorist attack. It comes from John Walker, the American captured with the Taliban fighters. Officials say that during his interrogation, Walker spoke about al Qaeda biological attacks coming within days, before the end of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan on Sunday.

Senior Bush administration officials are playing down the Walker report. Our CNN national security correspondent, David Ensor, joins us now with more on this report. David, what's your take?

ENSOR: Well, Wolf, officials are saying that yes indeed John Walker Lindh is talking, and he is talking about having heard that there will be additional attacks by al Qaeda, phases of the attack, and that an additional phase of the attack, an additional attack may occur around the end of Ramadan, which this year ends on this coming Sunday.

So there is that coming from John walker. They're taking it seriously, but at the same time, they say, with some skepticism. Frankly, as one official put it, these are tales told around the campfire. This is a foot soldier in the Taliban, or al Qaeda movement, who is talking about what the senior generals might be planning. There is reason for skepticism that he would really know what they were up to.

He might know, however, what is being said around the campfire, what the rumors are, as to what al Qaeda has up its sleeve, and that is of interest to U.S. officials. But they are skeptical that he would he really know what is planned by the bosses.

So again, this is a report they're interested in, but taking with some skepticism, Wolf.

BLITZER: Speaking about the campfire, he is at Camp Rhino right now, the U.S. Marine facility about 60 miles or so south of Kandahar in southern Afghanistan. He's being held there, and he is presumably cooperating. There is a container there that's holding him right now. But what is your reading? Is he fully cooperating in a debriefing with U.S. officials?

ENSOR: Officials say that he is talking a lot now, saying everything that he knows, everything he has heard. Clearly, a lot is at stake for him. The U.S. will have to determine what his future is at some point. And if he is cooperative, that may help him. So he is trying to be as helpful as he can in the debriefing process.

And as I say, taking with great interest what he is saying, but with some skepticism. A, because he may not know that much, and B, because he does have a self interest in seeming to be knowledgeable -- Wolf.

BLITZER: David Ensor, double duty today. Thank you very much for joining us.

And this note, the former CIA psychiatrist and Osama bin Laden profiler, Gerald Post, will join me tonight in the "CNN WAR ROOM." That's at 7:00 p.m. Eastern, 4:00 Pacific. And you can participate. Just go to my Web site, cnn.com/wolf. Click on "Send Questions." I'll ask them to Dr. Gerald Post and my other guests. You can also read my daily on-line column there at cnn.com/wolf.

Meanwhile, in its efforts to protect a very long border, what's being done to fight terrorism along thousands of miles of Canadian frontier? Next, Canada's foreign minister John Manley takes my questions, live from Ottawa.

Also ahead, shattering efforts to bring about a truce in the Middle East -- the latest round of attacks and retaliation.

And Dick Armey bids farewell to the House of Representatives. He'll join us live from Capitol Hill, in his first interview since the announcement, later in this program. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: In Texas today, word of an unspecified threat against schools in the state. Governor Rick Perry says he was informed of the threat by the FBI.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RICK PERRY, TEXAS: This report that we received is vague. It is unsubstantiated. It's not verified, and it is nonspecific. The FBI considers it to be a low-level threat. Nonetheless, I believe it's important that school officials are notified and that parents, teachers, administrators and law enforcement personnel are extra vigilant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Perry said the threat was made against a public school and appeared to be in response to U.S. airstrikes in Afghanistan. U.S. and Canadian officials are looking at ways to increase security along their 4,000-mile border, while also protecting the world's largest trade partnership. CNN's Jeanne Meserve explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Half a trillion dollars of trade moves across the U.S.-Canadian border every year. But since September 11, it has moved slowly -- tightened security creating long delays at some crossings.

Wednesday, a 30-point action plan was signed to speed up the flow of commerce and people and make the border more secure.

TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY DIRECTOR: There is no trade-off between our people's security and a trade friendly border. We need both, for in fact, they reinforce each other.

MESERVE: Among the joint plans provisions: the sharing of advanced passenger information on flights between Canada and the U.S., resuming a pilot program allowing pre-approved travelers to cross without delay -- a sort of international easy pass system. Investment in technology and infrastructure to speed the flow of goods and people, and stronger coordination between U.S. and Canadian law enforcement.

The governor of an affected U.S. border state is pleased.

GOV. JOHN ENGLER (R), MICHIGAN: It's a very good start. And the details have to implemented, have to be now brought on line, as has been outlined, and that will be the test. But the states will be strongly supporting this.

MESERVE: However, a former official of the Canadian intelligence service dismisses the agreement as "generic pabulum" that fails to take action on the critical issue, Canada's liberal immigration and refugee policies.

DAVID HARRIS, FORMER INTELLIGENCE OFFICER: We've got 50 terrorist organizations networked in Canada, and that makes Canada the second-most penetrated country in the world. The first, being a distinction going to the United States itself.

MESERVE: Ridge's office says the plan does begin to address refugee and visa issues as part of a new-found commitment to cooperate against terrorism. But difficult issues do remain, and Ridge will be conferring biweekly with the Canadian foreign minister, in hopes of hammering out some concrete agreements before President Bush meets with Prime Minister Chretien in Canada in June.

Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: For more perspective on the issue of U.S.-Canadian border security, we're joined in Ottawa by the Canadian foreign minister, John Manley.

Minister Manley, thank you very much for joining us. As you know, many U.S. citizens are very worried about the possibility of terrorists getting into Canada and then sneaking across that long border with the United States. What did you and Governor Ridge do today that will make that more difficult?

JOHN MANLEY, CANADIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: What we're trying to do, Wolf, is move the border between Canada and the U.S. out. In other words, move it farther away from our own continent so that, for example, we confirm information before people board planes bound for North America, whether to Canada or to the United States. We exchange information about who the people are that we ought to be mutually concerned about, and we do our best to weed them out before they are ever here.

This is the kind of approach that we want to take in order to make a more secure environment for both our countries. This is not something that distinguishes Canadians from Americans. Neither one of us wants to live with terrorists in our midst.

BLITZER: When will these new procedures go into effect, namely, trying to do more to prevent suspected terrorists from getting into either Canada or the United States?

MANLEY: We have already started implementing a broad program, Wolf, that we introduced in the weeks following September 11th. Yesterday, in our federal budget here in Canada, we announced a package amounting to over $7 billion. And if you do that on the usual 10-1 ratio, that's more like $70 billion U.S., all devoted to improve security measures over the next four or five years. Those things start now. Various stages of implementation, of course, but it's time to begin that work immediately.

BLITZER: Because of the new security considerations along the border, it's much more difficult to get across the border, if you will. I grew up in Buffalo, New York, right on the Canadian border, and we used to cross the Peace Bridge to Fort Erie. It used to be very easy. But now trucks and others have a much more difficult time. This is going to have an enormous impact on trade between the U.S. and Canada. Hasn't it already?

MANLEY: Well, that's right. If it continues at its current pace, it will have a very negative effect. Canada not only depends on exports to the United States, but I think the reverse is true. We receive about 25 percent of exports from the United States. We're the largest trading partner of 38 states. So we need to fix this.

I think Governor Ridge and I are moving in a direction that will make it very easy for those companies that frequently use the border to export goods, the ability to be readily identified, using electronic means, so that the frequent border crossers, the ones that we know a lot about, essentially don't need to stop at all at the borer. And that makes it easier for us to put our resources into dealing with the people that could be a risk. BLITZER: Is Canada on a higher state of alert right now in these final days of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, just as we are here in the United States?

MANLEY: Yes, we've maintained a high level of alert. Our intelligence services are very close contact with those in the United States. We share information on a continuing basis. And we are considered to be as much at risk as the United States.

BLITZER: Would you say that there's greater security considerations now under way in the United States, or in Canada, based on your discussions with Governor Ridge the past couple of days? Who is taking greater precautions right now in dealing with terrorists threats?

MANLEY: I think that on both sides of the border, you know, very important steps are being taken. I think we have some advantages, in that we have fewer agencies to try to contend with. We have, for example, a national police force in the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. There is no equivalent to that, exactly, in the United States.

So to some degree, it is easier for us to coordinate, as a smaller country. But extraordinary measures are being taken. I think we all learned some very hard lessons on September 11 about how vulnerable we really are in a free and open society.

BLITZER: You heard the report that Jeanne Meserve had earlier, that they're saying that there could be sleeper cells, not only here in the United States, but in Canada as well. Have you undertaken the same kinds of widespread sweeping operations -- picking up individuals suspected of potential connections to terrorists? The kind of detainees that have existed here in the United States?

MANLEY: We've had quite a number of arrests over the last couple of months, investigations that are ongoing, exchanges of information, again, with U.S. and other intelligence services. And not only that, but of course also implementing the measures that are necessary to freeze assets that are flowing to terrorist organizations to try to cut off their financing. A very close level of cooperation.

We don't have all the information -- I'm sure that's true in every western country -- about who's out there and what they might be doing. But I think we learned a lot as a result of the tragedies. And we're taking the steps that I think our populations expect us to take to try to reign in the people who could be a problem for us.

BLITZER: John Manley, Canada's foreign minister, our neighbor to the north. Thank you so much for joining us.

MANLEY: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: And up next, the delay in releasing the Osama bin Laden tape. Just ahead, what the Bush administration can gain by holding back on releasing the tape.

And later, a top Republican makes it official. I'll talk live with House majority leader Dick Armey. He'll tell us why he is leaving the U.S. Congress.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

They are still deciding over in the Bush administration what to do with that Osama bin Laden videotape, when precisely to release it. We will go live to the White House in just a moment.

But first let's check all the latest developments with Martin Savidge. He's in Atlanta -- Marty.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening to you, Wolf.

And there are reports that there is another effort to arrange an all cease-fire for al Qaeda forces in Eastern Afghanistan's region of Tora Bora. The United States bombing resumed this morning after a deadline passed for al Qaeda fighters to give themselves up. A U.S. Airborne gunship pounded the hills after dark. Some of the Afghan rebels say the surrender talks are a smokescreen to allow an al Qaeda leader to escape from the area.

The United States said today it still considers Osama bin Laden to be near Tora Bora. Officials raised doubts about reports from the "Christian Science Monitor" that bin Laden escaped into Pakistan more than a week ago.

Also today, still no release of that much-discussed tape of bin Laden: White House sources tell CNN that there are problems with the audio.

American John Walker has told his interrogators an al Qaeda attack involving biological weapons could happen soon in the United States. But U.S. officials say they doubt that Walker was privy to the plans of the top al Qaeda leaders. Walker is being held in a metal container at the U.S. encampment near Kandahar after his capture with Taliban forces.

Israel is carrying out retaliatory strikes in Gaza and the West Bank. The targets in Gaza appear to be connected to Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Authority. The Israeli strikes follow a deadly Palestinian ambush on a bus carrying Jewish settlers. And that attack killed at least 10 people and wounded up to 30 -- more on all of that in just a moment.

And, in Los Angeles, federal authorities have arrested two Jewish militants for an alleged bomb plot. One is Irv Rubin, chairman of the Jewish Defense League. Their alleged targets included a mosque and the office of Republican Darrell Issa, an Arab-American member of Congress.

Also today, the pilot the airliner, one those hijacked September 11, the one that slammed into the Pentagon, was buried in Arlington Cemetery. Charles Frank Burlingame was the captain of that plane. The Defense Department relented on the family's request for the Arlington burial, even though Burlingame, a Navy reservist, fell short of an age requirement.

Now let's go back to Wolf in Washington -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you very much, Marty.

And, as we have been reporting all day, the Bush administration has yet to release the videotape that was found in Afghanistan that purportedly links Osama bin Laden to the terror attacks in New York and here in Washington. A lot of people want to see that videotape. And we thought we'd get to see it today. We still have not.

With the latest on the White House decision, let's go over to the White House, our correspondent there, Major Garrett.

What are they thinking over there, Major?

MAJOR GARRETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, for a White House that is known for its discipline and the clarity of its message, a bit of a glitch today here at the White House on the question of when this Osama bin Laden tape would be released.

CNN reported a little while ago that definitely the tape would not be released tonight. That came from senior administration officials who, we were told, were privy to the latest thinking on this very important subject. Well, that's been changed. The White House now says it could possibly be released tonight. The translators over at the Pentagon are working intensively, feverishly we are told, to try to finish a translation of the tape.

And, in fact, if that work is done, it is possible tonight, still, that the tape may in fact be released -- so a bit muddy as far as the information from the White House as to when this tape will be released. The problem with the tape itself, Wolf, is that the audio is of poor quality. People who have looked at the transcript tell us that there are parts of the transcript that just show inaudible. You can't make out who is speaking or what is actually being said.

Why is that the case? Well, the tape was shot. Osama bin Laden clearly understands he is being shot on videotape, being captured on videotape. But there are several people in the room. And they talk over each other at times. All this has made the translation very difficult.

The White House is also very sensitive to any accusations that could come from any quarter that it is biased in its own translation of what, in fact, bin Laden says. So they have brought in four outside translators to listen to the tape very carefully. And they are going through that now. All four translators listen to the tape. They rerun it, listen to it again to make sure they hear every word that can be accurately attributed to Osama bin Laden and get the most accurate translation. And that is what they are working on now -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Is there any sense that, if it's not released tonight, let's say, that it definitely will be released tomorrow? Is that what you are hearing, Major? GARRETT: That's the sense we get here, Wolf.

There's no sense at the White House that they don't want this tape out. They consider it a very important, some might even call it a crucial piece of evidence. Now, nobody here at the White House needs any more evidence to implicate Osama bin Laden or the al Qaeda terrorist network in the September 11 attacks, but the White House is well aware there are parts of the world that would like to see more evidence.

They believe this would be a crucial piece of that evidence. That is why they are so sensitive about getting an accurate translation, one they believe, once released, is unimpeachable in the larger world. That is what they working on -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Major Garrett, at the White House, thank you very much.

And joining us now for his take on the still undisclosed bin Laden tape and all the discussions surrounding it is the journalist Hisham Melhem. He is the Washington bureau chief of the Lebanese newspaper "As-Safir."

Hisham, thanks for joining us.

HISHAM MELHEM, "AS-SAFIR": Thank you.

BLITZER: You would think that the White House, the administration, being as sensitive as they are to the impact this tape might have in the Arab world, the Muslim world, they would want to release it at a time when people are still awake. It's getting pretty late over there right now. Do you think, theoretically, if they release it tonight, that would be a blunder?

MELHEM: In terms of timing, probably most people will not see it, although I would imagine that millions upon millions of people in the Muslim world will be spending the night because this is Ramadan. So, many of them spend long evenings in these days.

But definitely the United States need to release that tape. Obviously they have to be very careful about the translations and the nuances. I assume that he was speaking colloquial Arabic. And you know Osama bin Laden almost has a whispering voice. So it's difficult sometimes to hear him.

If they don't get that audio problem cleared up technically, they will probably have a problem. And I would imagine that they will have subtitles and not voice-over, because people in the Muslim world and the Arab world, especially those skeptics who believe that the United States did not have a very good, solid evidence against Osama bin Laden, would like to zero in on this. And that's why I understand the reluctance on the part of the administration to go over this tape meticulously and carefully with more than one translator.

BLITZER: But, presumably, if people in the Arab world and the Muslim world who speak Arabic hear it live in Arabic and they hear him joking, let's say, about some of the other hijackers may not have known that they were about to be killed, that this was all a very devious plot, that could be devastating.

MELHEM: That could be devastating for those true believers, in particular those who wanted to believe in him, obviously.

And when he looks as if he is joking about the fate of those people who went on a mission not knowing that it was a suicide mission, he would look devious. He would look evil. He would like heartless. And people will hear with it in his own words with his own tone. And then they would realize what kind of a man Osama bin Laden is.

And I think this could be potentially a coup for the United States in the ongoing information propaganda war, if you will. Every war requires, of course, a great deal of propaganda and information, an attempt to influence hearts and minds. And I think the United States, which played catch-up early on, maybe was way behind when the war began in terms of addressing that large segment of that skeptical portion of Arab and Muslim public opinion.

If you remember, Wolf, at one time, Secretary Powell said we are compiling evidence. We are going to release it. And then he was overruled one or two days later. That allowed those people in the region who didn't want to believe in the first place that Osama bin Laden was responsible to zero in on this and say: Look, the Americans have a weak case here. They don't have an airtight case. They don't have a smoking gun.

With this video, if it is as clear as they are saying in terms of Osama bin Laden in his own words, this would be a great coup for the United States.

BLITZER: I spoke with a U.S. official today who has actually seen the videotape. He says it's about an hour, but some 20 minutes are totally extraneous. Apparently, they taped over an existing tape and there was some in the middle over there.

But the audio, the tape actually begins in the middle when he starts speaking. Then they rewind to the beginning. And then there is a middle part that is snow and children playing, some other stuff like that. Should they release the whole thing just to prove that there's no doctoring or editing of the videotape?

MELHEM: In the end, they have to show it or release it as they found it, because everybody is going to go -- I would imagine many television stations in the region or in the Muslim world or here would like to take a look at the original tape. And, you know, in our business of television, you know that you can deal -- you can enhance audio. You can do all these things.

But any serious experts will tell you whether this was doctored or this is the real thing. And that's why I think the United States has no option but to show it in total, at least some versions in total, and with the Arabic as is and no voice-over.

BLITZER: The way it was shot.

Hisham Melhem, thanks for joining us.

MELHEM: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: And this note: The release of the bin Laden tape and military tribunals are in the "CROSSFIRE" tonight. That's at 7:30 p.m. Eastern, 4:30 on the West Coast.

And this just in to CNN: Some of the U.S. Marines now at a base southwest of Kandahar will soon move to take up positions at the Kandahar airport. That is just southeast of the city. Roughly 1,500 Marines are currently at a remote desert base the is called Camp Rhino.

A senator U.S. official says the Marines will take control of the strategic airport, which was damaged by U.S. bombing over the past several months. Pentagon sources say the Marines originally planned to take the airport when it was under control of the Taliban forces, but that once they landed, that plan has changed. The Marines will now take control of airport in what one official called a semi- permissive environment.

Calling it quits after nearly two decades in Congress: I'll talk with the top Republican congressman, Dick Armey, on why he's deciding to leave the House of Representatives. And truce efforts are shattered in the Middle East -- the latest on attacks and retaliations.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DICK ARMEY (R-TX), MAJORITY LEADER: Despite the often too- bitter contests we have, I cherish the fact that, when our country needed us to come together, we stood on the steps of this Capitol, and hand to hand, we sang "God Bless America."

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The House majority leader, Dick Armey, on the floor of the U.S. House of Representatives earlier today announcing that next year will be his final year in the U.S. Congress.

Dick Armey joins us now live from Capitol Hill.

Thank you so much, Mr. Leader, for joining us. Tell us why you made this decision.

ARMEY: Well, Wolf, I have been at this for a long time; 18 years it will have been at the end of next year, eight years as majority leader trying to manage the legislative agenda with the thinnest of margins. Nobody has really had to do this job of management under these rigorous circumstances.

And, quite frankly, I just -- to a large extent, I have just been ridden too hard and put away too wet too many times. You know, it wears on you. I love this place. I love these people. I think I was clear on that. I have no disappointments, no hurts, no angers, no upsets. I think it's come time for me to look at a third career in my life and move on to it.

BLITZER: Remember when you were involved in the so-called Contract with America in 1994 that eventually, I guess everybody agrees, resulted in the Republicans taking the majority of the House of Representatives. When you look back -- we have a picture over there of when you were involved in that -- was that the high point of your time in the U.S. Congress?

ARMEY: Well, it was certainly a big deal for to us win the majority after 40 years. And we the thought the Contract with America was an important contribution.

But, you know, in the end, we had a lot of good people that were candidates out there working their heart out. And, you know, you have always got to give it to the candidate. They win their own races. So, while I want to appreciate the contract, and what I was able to do in the 100 days of managing it, and the fact 70 percent of it was signed into law, in the end, you win elections because good people want to run and work their heart out to get themselves elected.

BLITZER: You mentioned on your speech on the floor earlier today that you were so happy about the way the Democrats and the Republicans and a few independents rallied and got together right after September 11. But why were you so surprised about that kind of unity in the face of that kind of attack?

ARMEY: I don't know that I was that surprised. I'm not sure I said I was surprised about it. But it was really a sweet moment, wasn't it? It was a time when we all seemed to rise above our personal objectives, our political objectives, our parochial objectives and say: Hey, this is a great nation and we are proud to be able to be part of what might be done to keep it safe.

So, no, I'm not so sure I was surprised. I have never estimated -- underestimated the quality of people that are in the United States House of Representatives. These are decent people, as per their endorsement by some 550,000 people from their respective districts.

BLITZER: I guess the question immediately springs to mind: Who do you think is going to replace you as the majority leader, assuming, of course, that the Republicans maintain the majority after the next election?

ARMEY: Well, you know, I wouldn't want to speculate on that. I will say, we will hold the majority. I have no doubt about that. If I had even a scintilla of doubt, I would not have been able to retire at this time.

But there are lot of good, qualified people in our conference. And I always kid myself. I say, this can't be that tough of a job. I have got at least 218 people every day that know how to do it better than I do. So it is, I think, a conference rich with talent and ability and good intentions. And I'm sure this conference will pick a good person.

BLITZER: A lot of people have been impressed by the way you and the speaker keep those Republicans together even on votes -- and, as you well know, there are some liberal Republicans, some very conservative Republicans. But when the close votes come, they seem all to be pretty much united behind you and the president.

ARMEY: Well, we work hard together. We try to always pay our respects to our colleagues. And many, many times, the votes do get difficult. I have to tell you, there has been more than one time when I have cherished very, very deeply the Democrats who were able to come with us. It's always too few, in my estimation, but we always appreciate. Sometimes, they are that margin of victory for the things we work hard on.

So we try to make it as bipartisan as we can and as acceptable to the broad spectrum of different points of view within our often conference as we can.

BLITZER: Give us a preview after -- you are still going to be in Congress for another year. But what happens next? What is life going to be like for Dick Armey after he leaves Washington?

ARMEY: Well, the first thing I am going to do is go home and spend a lot of my family -- doing those things that come under the heading of the things you do for love. And I am going to spend a lot of time at that.

But I am still invested very heavily in ideas, the ideas of freedom and safety and security. These are big deals with me. And I'm hoping that there will be places in America where a guy can go work with good colleagues like I have had here on those ideas and maybe see a little bit about what are some of the great adventure going on in the world of business, especially in this electronic revolution.

So I think there are a lot of opportunities out there. I hope I have something to offer. But I can tell you one thing. I will go to my grave thinking about freedom and one more scheme to get us a little bit more of it.

BLITZER: OK, Dick Armey, congratulations on your decision. But we still have you for another year. I hope you will be a frequent guest here a CNN. Thank you so much for joining us.

ARMEY: Well, it was my pleasure. Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: And even after you go back to Texas, we want you to appear right here as well. Appreciate it very much. Good luck to you and to your family.

And when we come back, we will switch gears completely. There is more violence between the Israelis and the Palestinians. We will go live to the scene right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: As we reported, Israel has retaliated tonight for a deadly ambush in the West Bank on a bus carrying Jewish settlers. Israeli warplanes attacked targets in the West Bank, as well as in Gaza.

We have two reporters up live tonight, Mike Hanna -- he's in Jerusalem -- and Matthew Chance. He's in Gaza.

And the last time we checked with Matthew, there was an air strike happening just over his shoulder.

Matthew, we were all watching you duck. Tell us what the latest is, first of all, right now in Gaza?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, I can tell you that, as we are speaking to you now, Israeli warplanes continue to circle in the skies over Gaza City.

Israel said its response, its retaliation for those attacks would be painful, sharp and rather strong and quick. And, certainly, it's been three hours now. And we have been witnessing these very intensive air strikes on installations across Gaza, installations closely associated with the Palestinian Authority and with Yasser Arafat himself.

We've been seeing Israeli air strikes now. And I have counted 13 in the past three hours from this rooftop location overlooking the Gaza City, focusing on Yasser Arafat's presidential compound, also on naval installations here around Gaza -- so very intensive air strikes under way, very clear messages being sent from Israel to the Palestinian Authority here -- Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: Matthew, stand by.

Mike Hanna in Jerusalem, our Jerusalem bureau chief, give us the background. What started today's latest round of violence?

MIKE HANNA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, shortly after sunset this evening, Wolf, bus number 189 on its way from Tel Aviv to a settlement called Emanuel (ph) in the West Bank, an ultra-orthodox settlement, came under attack.

The Israeli army said a roadside bomb was detonated alongside the bus. Palestinian gunmen then poured fire into it; there were 52 people aboard the bus. Ten of them were killed. At least 30 were seriously injured. The Israeli army -- the Israeli government immediately blamed the Palestinian Authority, said it was responsible. The Palestinian Authority denied this, condemning the attack -- the Israeli Cabinet at present in an emergency session which has lasted for a number of hours.

As to peacemaking, U.S. envoy Anthony Zinni has indicted that he will remain in the region attempting to broker a cease-fire between the parties -- but after 24 hours of ongoing violence, no cease-fire in sight -- Wolf.

BLITZER: OK, Mike Hanna, Matthew Chance in Gaza, thanks to both of you. Please, both of you be safe over there as well.

And let's go to New York right now and get a preview "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE." That begins, of course, at the top of the hour -- Lou.

LOU DOBBS, "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE": Indeed it does, Wolf. Thank you very much.

Heavy U.S. air strikes have resumed over the Tora Bora mountains of Afghanistan after a surrender deadline was ignored by al Qaeda forces. We'll have a live report for you from Afghanistan. And I will be talking with one of the leaders of the Northern Alliance tonight, Haron Amin. And a U.S. B-1 bomber has crashed in the Indian Ocean. All four crew members are safe. We'll have the latest details for you from the Pentagon.

And the head of Enron's auditing firm testified today on Capitol Hill. Joe Berardino, the CEO of Andersen, the accounting firm at the center of the Enron collapse, will be my guest this evening -- all of that, a lot more coming right up at the top of the hour. Please join us.

Now back to Wolf Blitzer in Washington -- Wolf.

BLITZER: I will join you. Thank you very much, Lou Dobbs.

And up next: What is ahead for the mayor of New York, Rudy Giuliani? We'll have some details about life after being mayor.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Finally tonight, a new job for an old mayor: New York's Rudy Giuliani is reportedly planning to start his own consulting firm after he steps down from office next month. "The New York Daily News" said Giuliani's new enterprise will specialize in helping companies that are failing. Good luck to the mayor.

I'll be back in the CNN "War Room" with more coverage on the war in Afghanistan in one hour. I'll speak live with a former CIA psychiatrist who has profiled Osama bin Laden.

Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. CNN's coverage of America's new war continues with "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE." That begins right now.

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