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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Where is Osama bin Laden?

Aired December 17, 2001 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Was the anthrax in the U.S. mail made in the U.S.?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARI FLEISCHER, PRESS SECRETARY: The evidence is increasingly looking like it was a domestic source.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: We'll hear from Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge on where the threat lies.

Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. The most hunted man in the war on terrorism remains elusive. This hour, we'll talk to a reporter in Tora Bora who says Osama bin Laden may have escaped from Afghanistan.

First, a quick check of all of the latest developments, here is CNN's Martin Savidge in Atlanta. Marty.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thank you, Wolf very much. U.S. Commandos are searching abandoned caves for Osama bin Laden. A U.S. official tells CNN that while the terrorist leader may have escaped, chances are he's still in Afghanistan's Tora Bora region.

If bin Laden did escape, the official says he probably fled into Pakistan within the past few days. The weekend defeat of al Qaeda sent hundreds of fighters fleeing. Today bands of al Qaeda holdouts mounted sporadic resistance from Tora Bora's hills and caves.

At least 200 al Qaeda combatants were killed at Tora Bora and an unknown number captured. The captives are being interrogated. President Bush said today he wants all al Qaeda brought to justice and especially Osama bin Laden.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It may happen tomorrow. It may happen in a month. It may happen in a year, but is he going to be brought to justice. He's on the run. He thinks he can hide, but he can't. SAVIDGE: As the U.S. hunts bin Laden, there is word today about the possible whereabouts of Taliban leader Mohammed Omar. An Afghan official said Omar appears to have fled with hundreds of fighters to a vast mountain stronghold, 100 miles from Kandahar. It's the first news in weeks concerning Omar's location.

American John Walker is one of at least five enemy troops being held aboard a U.S. warship. Newsweek reporting that Walker has told interrogators he trained at al Qaeda terrorist camps and met with Osama bin Laden.

Now let's go back to Wolf in Washington. Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you, Marty. U.S. officials still are insisting they'll find Osama bin Laden. But what's missing today besides bin Laden is the oft repeated claim that the noose around him is tightening. Many had hoped that Tora Bora would be the proverbial end game. So far, it's not.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice over): A small opening in a Tora Bora hillside provides a snapshot of what Afghan fighters an U.S. Special Operation Forces were up against in fighting al Qaeda.

CNN's exclusive pictures show a treasure trove of ammunition collected by Osama bin Laden. Boxes of Chinese made heavy machine gun rounds are stacked nearly to the cave's ceiling. Nearby, the walls of the cave are lined with mortar bombs. There's unspent ammunition inside and outside the cave.

Despite widespread bombing destruction, these signs of recent activity and the lack of dead bodies, indicate al Qaeda forces did not make this a last stand but moved higher into the mountains.

It's estimated that 2,000 al Qaeda fighters took part in the battle for Tora Bora but just a few have been found. A hand full captured by Afghan forces were paraded before cameras today.

One group interviewed by CNN said Osama bin Laden was seen in the area as recently as Saturday. But the truth is, no one really knows where bin Laden is.

REAR ADMIRAL JOHN STUFFLEBEEM, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: Anybody's guess, is the latest thinking.

BLITZER: U.S. air strikes in the Tora Bora region have been suspended to allow cave-to-cave reconnaissance. And, as the fighting dies down, so has the volume of radio traffic.

STUFFLEBEEM: In the last 48 hours, there has been less to pull in, to confirm one thing or another, so it has gotten quiet. (END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: If Osama bin Laden were in the Tora Bora mountains, how could he escape? Let's good back to CNN's Martin Savidge. He's at the CNN big board. Marty, what are his options?

SAVIDGE: He has a number of options, Wolf. We can't tell you specifically where he is but we can tell you the theories as to where he may have gone and how he might have got there.

First, the important thing to understand is the border between Pakistan and between Afghanistan. It's a lengthy border, a border that stretches for 1,300 miles.

The Pakistani government says it has about 300 checkpoints. If they were spread out equally, which they are not, there would be one roughly every four or five miles; meaning, a lot of gaps that someone could cross undetected.

On top of that though, could be the problem of if you have the right amount of money. There are places and checkpoints, meeting the right individual, a couple of hundred dollars changes hands and bingo, you're into Pakistan.

We want it take you into Tora Bora though, to show you something specifically why it may have been the last stronghold for Osama bin Laden or where he may still be. Notice here how close it is to the border of Pakistan.

Not only is Tora Bora good because of the caves as a defensive position, but it leaves you with an exit, an exit that goes directly into Pakistan. Quite frankly, you could you make that run in good conditions in probably less than a day or a night.

What does he meet when he gets there across the Pakistani border? Potentially a lot of allies. That area there is considered to be bandit country or an area where tribal law is more in command than it is the law of the nation.

There are a number of people that are gathered on that side of the border that are very sympathetic to the Taliban and also to Osama bin Laden; likely, he'd get a friendly reception. Wolf.

BLITZER: Marty, thank you very much. And joining us now by telephone from Tora Bora, Phillip Smucker of the Christian Science Monitor. He's the author of recent reports sighting sources in the region that Osama bin Laden may have left Pakistan indeed some time ago.

Phillip, thanks for joining us, and what's your latest information? What are you hearing about the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden right now?

PHILLIP SMUCKER, CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR: Well, the best we have to go on is still the Saudi financier who was in a safe house last week, who said clearly that he had been in the caves with Mr. bin Laden, and indeed traveled from Jalalabad to Tora Bora four weeks ago with bin Laden.

He said bin Laden had traveled out of Tora Bora on two occasions. The first time he had gone with his right-hand man, Ayman al-Zawahiri, down to Kandahar to meet with Mullah Omar. He'd come back and then he left again last week. It was ten days ago, so this week, it would be now about 15 days ago, he left and he hasn't come back from that trip.

Now, he could have doubled back. He could have gone into Pakistan and back into other terror bases. There are several of them in Pachtia (ph) Province, which is just the next province south of where we are now in Ningahar.

He could be moving in the White Mountains or he could have shaved his beard and gone through Pakistan. He could be on a boat to Yemen. We don't know at this point.

BLITZER: And all those reports that we heard late last week about Osama bin Laden effectively being surrounded in the Tora Bora region, that the U.S. and the forces allied with the U.S., the Eastern Alliance were getting very, very close. Do you believe those reports were false?

SMUCKER: I certainly do and I think that most of the western Press Corps is convinced that this was no siege at all. It was more of a sieve.

There were people coming and going, fighters coming in. Bin Laden made a phone call after he left radio contact, saying that he was sending his son in. His son came in from Gazni in central Afghanistan, picked up another 50 Afghan fighters to join the 30 he was with, came into Tora Bora.

So people have been moving out almost at will and also into Tora Bora. Now, we suspect that of the 1,700 fighters, probably only a few hundred are left now scattered in the hills, and most of those are probably trying to trek out to more comfortable places this winter.

BLITZER: And briefly, Phillip, how difficult is it to cross that border from Afghanistan into Pakistan, in that Tora Bora region?

SMUCKER: Well, only in the last two weeks it's become much more difficult, but given we suspect that bin Laden would have tried to leave about two weeks ago, it probably had been quite simple for him to skip over into Pakistan.

There are other exit routes that are never mentioned. He can go back into central Afghanistan. He can go through Gardez. He can go into Pachtia. He can even get into the Ruzgan Mountains above Kandahar to join Mullah Omar, if he's sly and doesn't cross any American troops on the highway coming down.

We had reports a couple weeks ago, of course that the Americans were trying to intercept people on the main roads, but you can't cover the whole country. It's just too difficult.

One would suspect though that if they had intelligence and they knew he was in Tora Bora, there's a lot more that could have been done to put a siege on that mountain. It's only a valley, and to say it's the Tora Bora region is not the proper markation.

It's not that big. There's only several passes out of it. If you put down 5,000, 6,000 men, presumably you could you blocked the exits.

BLITZER: All right. Phillip Smucker of Christian Science Monitor in Tora Bora, thank you very much for joining us.

And now, let's go here in Washington. Rob Sobhani joins us. He's a professor at Georgetown University. You've been studying this area for a long time. What would be the ramifications be if Osama bin Laden and some key lieutenants of his did manage to sneak across into Pakistan?

ROB SOBHANI, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: I think, Wolf, one of the fundamental objectives of Osama bin Laden from day one was not only Saudi Arabia but Pakistan because a destabilized Pakistan with nuclear weapons could be the biggest prize for Osama bin Laden. And that's the biggest worry right now, that if he is in Pakistan, the instability that could ensue could be a serious blow to U.S. strategic interests because of the Pakistan-India nuclear issue.

BLITZER: And just to show our viewers once again how close this area is. I want to go to our map.

SOBHANI: Sure.

BLITZER: Let's show a closeup map of the Tora Bora area, where the U.S. had believed that Osama bin Laden might be in that area. If we can get a closeup of that border region., we'll put it up on the map.

I guess we're having some trouble doing that, but it's very, very close.

SOBHANI: Not only that, but the population in that region of Pakistan is very, very similar to the Taliban of Afghanistan, mostly Pashtuns.

And so, he would find a welcomed reception, Osama bin Laden would if he slips into that border. It's a very dangerous development.

BLITZER: We just lost that map, but the bottom line is that if he got into Pakistan, it would be much more difficult to find him in Pakistan than in Afghanistan.

SOBHANI: Absolutely, because Pakistan then has a huge border with the Indian Ocean. He could get on a vessel and to go to a number of locations. That's the danger.

BLITZER: But don't you think that the military government of President Pervez Musharraf has that country pretty much under control and they could find him if they wanted to.

SOBHANI: I think Pervez Musharraf put a lot of his energy and efforts into making sure the nuclear infrastructure of Pakistan did not fall into the wrong hands, and maybe less investment in the border security area.

So, he had to choose and I think he chose the nuclear infrastructure at this point.

BLITZER: I've heard some analysts suggest that some of those Eastern Alliance fighters, the rebels, the anti-Taliban fighters, aligned with the United States in the eastern part of Afghanistan, may not necessarily have the same agenda as the United States has when it comes to Osama bin Laden.

The implication, the suggestion being maybe they wanted him to slip out of Afghanistan.

SOBHANI: Well, there's no doubt that Osama bin Laden had an exit strategy and part of that exit strategy would have included some deals with the alliance, who are on our side at this point.

The key broader implication though at this point, is we need to support those who are left behind, Hamid Karzai the interim leader of Afghanistan, the monarch. This is the time where the United States needs to go to bat because those folks have made an investment in the United States.

We need to go to bat for them, because they're going to be under a lot of pressure from the folks like Rabbani, who's outside the political process, from the Pakistanis, the Iranians and the Russians.

There are forces who don't want us to succeed. This is the time for us to make sure everything succeeds.

BLITZER: All right, very briefly, what should be the U.S. government, the Bush Administration be doing right now to bolster, if you will, the interim regime of Hamid Karzai?

SOBHANI: I think immediately cut through all the red tape, get as much aid, physical and otherwise into Afghanistan, pour it into the country and start the rebuilding process immediately.

BLITZER: OK. Rob Sobhani, of Georgetown University, thank you very much.

SOBHANI: Thank you.

BLITZER: Meanwhile, the U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said today the war in Afghanistan is proceeding according to plan, but he said it's a long way from over.

After a trip to Afghanistan, Rumsfeld flew to Brussels today for a meeting with NATO's defense ministers. On the way, he was asked by our own Jamie McIntyre about the hunt for bin Laden. DONALD RUMSFELD, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: A questionmark as to his exact location. There are people who continue to speculate that he may be in that area or may have been in that area, or that he may be somewhere else.

My feeling is, until we catch him, which we will, we won't know precisely where he was when we catch him.

BLITZER: Joining me now from Little Rock, Arkansas, the former NATO Supreme Allied Commander, General Wesley Clark. He, of course, is our CNN Military Analyst.

General Clark, what's your take? There was a lot of optimism, as you know, in recent days that Osama bin Laden may have been cornered, but that optimism, at least today, and this is a very fluid situation, seems to have dissipated.

GEN. WESLEY CLARK U.S. ARMY (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I think at a time like this, you have to keep steady emotions on this, and what the administration tried to say all of last week, with the exception of the news that perhaps you have heard on the radio was that there was al Qaeda in there. They didn't really know where Osama bin Laden was.

Tommy Franks said that a couple times in various press conferences, and I think that was the right approach. This is one individual. He's trying to escape, he's trying to hide. Except by luck, we wouldn't know exactly where he is, and then he may have moved from the time we got information on his location.

So you know, I think the operation is going pretty well. It's going according to plan. We knew that terrain was too tough to ever cordon it off so that no person could enter or exit it without our knowing about it.

We knew there were questions about the difficulty of the terrain on the border with Pakistan. People continually said it was a porous border, so it's possible he's out of there. It's possible he's still there. It's possible he's killed and buried under tons of granite up there too.

But the odds are most likely that if he's not out of there now, he does have an escape route. That was always the odds by the way.

BLITZER: I just want to, for our viewers, those who don't know, Tommy Franks is the commander of the Central Command. He's in charge of the U.S. military campaign in Afghanistan.

So what should the U.S. be doing now in terms of continuing air strikes. There doesn't seem to be many targets left. Am I wrong on that?

CLARK: Well, my guess is that there are targets left. But when you hear the correspondents say that they fled higher up into the mountains, well we need to get our troops up there, the Afghan allies, the Eastern Alliance and our U.S. Special Forces need to move through quickly.

We need some stay-behind teams that can exploit the caves that have been detected. You've got to keep pressure on are treating enemy force. That force is out there somewhere.

Those individuals are in hiding. They're trying to escape, and the fact that there are no more small arms exchanges, the fact that the air strikes aren't going in, is an indicator that it's time to put the pressure on again, close up, make contact.

That's the basic rule in military operations, gain and maintain contact with the enemy. And then, when we close all the way up to the border and we're shaking hands with the Pakistani guards on the border, we sweep back through the area. We pick up everything that's left.

We'll get information out of this, and it's all part of the process of getting Osama bin Laden. It would have been nice if we had gotten him here. But if we don't, we don't. But we'll keep up the search, as Secretary Rumsfeld said.

BLITZER: It sounds though like that kind of sweep by U.S. Special Operations forces could require a large number of troops, a very dangerous operation, given for one thing, all those land mines that are still presumably unexploded in that area.

CLARK: I think it will be a dangerous and a difficult operation. That's one reason it hasn't been pursued as vigorously as you might have expected it to be doctrinally.

But I think also, we've got some unusual advantages there. We've got helicopters. We've got night vision goggles. We've got unmanned aircraft that can fly overhead and help our troops.

The big thing is, just to keep the pressure on at this point, and he has not -- he has lost his base area there. Whether we got him or not, we've clearly put him at a disadvantage.

We've taken more than a pawn in a chess game. We've taken some minor or major piece. We may not have Osama bin Laden yet, but we've got something significant here, and now keep the pressure on and move on.

BLITZER: And for perspective, General Clark, as you always do so well, the goal was not necessarily capturing or killing Osama bin Laden, as important as that is, isn't that right?

CLARK: That's exactly right. I mean, the administration has always been concerned that the American people would be obsessively focused on one individual.

It's true, he's important. But the key thing is the network and the network is not only in Afghanistan. It's in 50 or 60 other countries around the world. It's going to take work by us, our allies over a period of months and even years to really root out the network.

And so, we've got to be patient. We've got to keep on going, and we will put the pressure on and I'm convinced, as Secretary Rumsfeld said, we're going to get Osama bin Laden. It may take time.

BLITZER: OK, General Clark, thank you very much once again for your perspective.

CLARK: Thank you.

BLITZER: And when we come back, much more on the war on Afghanistan. We'll continue to explore the hunt for Osama bin Laden by the way, as well as the next steps in the U.S. War on Terrorism.

Tonight, here in the CNN War Room, among my guests the former CIA Director, James Woolsey and the investigative journalist, Seymour Hirsch. That's at 7:00 p.m. Eastern, 4:00 p.m. on the West Coast.

And you can participate. Just go to my web page, cnn.com/wolf. Click on send questions. I'll try to get to as many of those questions for our panel as possible. That's also, by the way, where you can read my daily online column, cnn.com/wolf.

What's the biggest threat against the United States? When we return, the Homeland Security Chief answers the big question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM RIDGE, DIRECTOR OF HOMELAND SECURITY: They might find some way to use a preexisting source right here in the United States against us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Also the anthrax investigation and a White House hunch about a source.

And later, what doctors found on the President's face.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. The White House says anthrax spores that contaminated some U.S. mail in October may have been produced inside this country.

FLEISCHER: There's nothing that has been final that has been concluded. But, the evidence is increasingly looking like it was a domestic source. But again, this remains something that is not final, nor totally conclusive yet.

BLITZER: Meanwhile another step has been completed in the effort to get rid of anthrax inside the Hart Senate Office Building. Workers pumped chlorine dioxide gas through the facilities heating, ventilation and air-conditioning systems. It could be a week before test results reveal whether all the anthrax is gone. Other areas of the building were fumigated about two weeks ago, but traces of the deadly bacteria remain.

The anthrax threat is just one of the many problems the Homeland Security Director, Tom Ridge, has been dealing with. Our own Jeanne Meserve sat down with Ridge for an update earlier today on what's going on. Jeanne, what did he tell you?

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, I asked Ridge right now what is threat #1 against the United States. His answer, the uncertainty of another attack of whatever kind.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MESERVE (voice over): One possibility Tom Ridge discussed, terrorist sabotage of a chemical facility.

TOM RIDGE, DIRECTOR, HOMELAND SECURITY: It's conceivable that instead of importing chemicals into the United States of America, they might find some way to use a preexisting source right here in the United States against us, as they have done with airplanes and envelopes.

MESERVE: Can you quantify that threat?

RIDGE: Well we know that the chemical industry is one of the most important and largest industries we have in this country. We know that there are chemical facilities all over this country.

MESERVE: Right now, there are no Federal counter-terrorism security standards for chemical plants. I asked Ridge if there should be.

RIDGE: Because of the terrorist attacks, the companies themselves and the private security community has obviously upgraded. But to date, we don't have any standard.

MESERVE: And isn't that a concern?

RIDGE: But this is the United States of America. We're going to have to have a standard.

MESERVE: Any idea what that standard will look like?

RIDGE: Not at this point.

MESERVE: One of those things you're working on.

RIDGE: It's going to be a tough and rigorous standard that we -- part of an overall national strategy.

MESERVE: Ridge was sidetracked from piecing together that national strategy by the anthrax attacks. The FBI, as part of its investigation, is reportedly looking at a CIA bio-warfare program. Ridge didn't want to comment on the probe, but I asked him about reports in the Washington Post that the FBI only found out about the CIA program in recent weeks.

RIDGE: One of the things that the President has commissioned me to do in his Executive Order is make sure that the gap or delay in information sharing no longer exists as we combat this War on Terror.

MESERVE: But does this indicate that the gap still does exist?

RIDGE: Well, I think it indicates that I've got some work to do.

MESERVE: Some Americans have responded to the September 11th attacks by purchasing firearms. Gun and ammunition sales are up. I asked Ridge about that phenomenon.

RIDGE: The casual acquisition, the personal acquisition of a firearm, I don't think is necessarily going to enhance national security. It may give an individual or a family a greater sense of comfort. But at the end of the day, that's not the best anecdote to 21st Century terrorist attacks.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MESERVE: Ridge says better intelligence and intelligence sharing are part of the solution. So is technology. Looking down the road, he hopes Americans will see visible signs that the country is better, stronger and safer, and that they will feel it in their hearts as well -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Jeanne, I'm hearing from some public health authorities here in the United States on the anthrax threat, that those individuals, 10,000 to 15,000 have started the antibiotic Cipro for 60 days. That's about to come to an end. They may have to take it just to be 100 percent sure they've eliminated all fear of anthrax for another 30 days. Maybe they should get a vaccine, the anthrax vaccine, which I'm told now is only available for the U.S. military.

What did the Homeland Security Director tell you about this issue?

MESERVE: He pointed out that we have learned a lot about anthrax in the past couple of months, that we didn't know, and that our knowledge continues to evolve. There is this concern that people may be vulnerable to an anthrax infection after the 60 days, which until now has been sort of the standard wisdom.

But, you know, we're dealing here with this highly aerosolized form of anthrax. They're afraid it could be potent for a longer period of time. So the scientists are now weighing in with their various opinions on whether or not there should be vaccinations or there should be more use of antibiotics.

Ridge said that he didn't want to tell me what his opinion was. He said that wasn't important. What's important is what the scientists say. He said that, as of this morning at least when we talked, no final decision on this has been made as yet but one is anticipated in the next several days. BLITZER: Indeed. I'm hearing it could come as early as tomorrow, a recommendation from the CDC, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. We'll be monitoring that. I know you will be monitoring that as well.

MESERVE: You bet, Wolf.

BLITZER: Jeanne Meserve, thanks very much.

And let's check some other stories now from our newswire. Fire engulfed a hotel in central Paris early today, killing four people, including two Italian students and injuring 17. Officials suspect arson. They say the flames started on the ground floor and quickly spread. Police have detained a man in connection with the fire.

And it was a picture-perfect landing for the Space Shuttle Endeavour at Florida's Kennedy Space Center today. The shuttle brought back an American and two Russians who lived on board the International Space Station since August. As was the case for the launch, heavy security was in place at the landing site.

And there's snow in paradise. The video was shot in an area on the big island of Hawaii today, about two inches of snow fell in the region, an event that locals say happens about once a year. A lovely scene, snow in Hawaii.

We'll come back to the hunt for Osama bin Laden right after the break and get the latest from our Senior White House Correspondent John King. He's live at the White House.

Also, could information this former FBI agent passed along to the Russians have wound up in Osama bin Laden's hands?

And the President's face, find out what was done to it and whether you need to worry.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. What are officials at the White House, including the president, saying about the hunt for Osama bin Laden? We will check in live with our senior White House correspondent John King in just a moment. But first, another quick check of all the latest developments. Once again, Martin Savidge in Atlanta -- Marty.

(NEWS UPDATE)

BLITZER: Thank you, Marty. And while the question, where is Osama bin Laden? That question has gone unanswered so far, President Bush today said it's just a matter of time before he and his associates are captured.

CNN senior White House correspondent John King joins us now for more.

John, are they backing away from some of the earlier optimism that we heard?

JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Certainly Wolf, today much less of a sense of certainty. Over the weekend we heard repeated reports that they were pretty confident based on the intelligence that Osama bin Laden was still in the mountain area of Tora Bora.

Today at the Pentagon, Admiral Stufflebeem saying it's anybody's guess where Osama bin Laden is.

Still, here at the White House, the president received an update today from the latest intelligence from his national security team. He met with reporters and he continued to insist that when the question comes up of when Osama bin Laden will be brought to justice, the question is not whether he will be captured, but when.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Osama bin Laden is going to be brought to justice. It may happen tomorrow, it may happen in a month, it may happen in a year. But he is going to be the brought to justice. He is on the run. He thinks he can hide, but he can't. We have been at this operation now for about two and a half months. And we have made incredible progress. And one of the objectives I have said in this theater and all theaters, for that matter, is that we want al Qaeda killers brought to justice. And we will bring him to justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Mr. Bush speaking to reporters there after a White House ceremony featuring about 20 Muslim schoolchildren from the Washington D.C. area, this to mark the end of the Muslim holy period of Ramadan. Mr. Bush reading to the children and exchanging gifts with them, all part of the administration's continued effort to make the case, this is a war against terrorism, not, as bin Laden says, a war against Islam.

And as U.S. officials continue to question whether perhaps bin Laden has made his way across the border to Pakistan, the White House press secretary, Ari Fleischer, today, saying the U.S. government is getting full cooperation from Pakistan intelligence services. But one senior official I spoke to earlier today said, yes, they were in constant contact, but the Pakistani intelligence services when I asked, could they do more, this official said, probably so -- Wolf.

BLITZER: John, the president and his aides at the White House are probably going to take some comfort in the latest CNN-USA Today Gallup Poll. I will put some numbers up on our screen, when the public is asked: Will the United States get Osama bin Laden, look at this, 76 percent say yes.

Should military action continue?

Sixty-seven percent say yes. Are you very satisfied with the war? Sixty-nine percent say yes. Though these numbers were taken, this poll was done a few days ago when there was a lot more optimism about capturing or killing Osama bin Laden. But still, these numbers are very strong.

KING: Very strong for the president. His own approval rating also still in the high 80 percent range. So, the administration feels the president continues to have overwhelming support from the American people, but you are right, they are worried in a sense that when you hear all these reports of military progress of having Osama bin Laden perhaps surrounded in the mountains, that the American people think it might be over soon, that is why we heard the president say again today, maybe tomorrow, maybe a month. But he also said maybe it will take a year to find him.

BLITZER: All right, now, switching gears dramatically, John, during this wartime a lot of our viewers probably noticed some dots on the president's face earlier today when you showed that clip of him speaking over at the White House. Tell our viewers what is going on.

KING: Four skin lesions removed from the president's face on Friday here at the White House using liquid nitrogen. If you look at the president's cheeks, you see two spots, dark spots, on each cheek. Those two of most concern. Those were pre-cancerous lesions. The White House says two other noncancerous lesions removed from the president's forehead and temple. Still, White House officials saying the President is fine. those two precancerous lesions very much like three more removed from the president back when he had a physical in August.

They say this is typical, a condition faced by millions of Americans who are outdoors quite a bit as the president is and was in his younger days. They say the president is just fine, but he did he have those lesions removed from his cheek in a precautionary move Friday at the White House.

BLITZER: And as you and I will remember, John, I think president Clinton had some similar lesions removed from his face. Too much time spent in the sun for both of these baby boomers if we can call them that.

Thank you very much, John king for joining us. Let get more now on the precancerous condition that was removed from the president's face. I'm joined by Dr. Sanjay Gupta. He is, of course, our CNN medical correspondent.

Sanjay, Give us some perspective. How serious of a procedure is this? SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Wolf, it's not a very serious procedure. As you were just pointing out, two of the lesions located on his checks, they call it pre-cancerous. That basically means, lesions that could become cancerous -- I'll point them out, here -- one is over there -- let's see here -- right there -- and one, wait, he will turn is head here in a second -- is right in there. Those are the two precancerous lesions. The name of that is actually actinnic keratoses (ph). That is the one that is associated with the sun. The other two lesions that we have been hearing about, Wolf, are called seborrheic keratoses, big names, Wolf. Those are ones that are usually more the result of aging.

Seborrheic keratoses, we see a picture of it here, that is usually the typical appearance of it. Again, noncancerous related to sun, moving on to actinic keratosis, those are the two red spots on the president's cheek. These can turn into cancer. That's what it may look like on the top of your ear, but, if they are caught early, as they were in the past in August, again, now this past Thursday, they often can be treated and never turn into anything very severe at all.

BLITZER: And just to underline that to point, Sanjay, this is totally different than what was removed from Senator John McCain's face, a melanoma, which is obviously the most dangerous former of skin cancer.

GUPTA: That absolutely right, Wolf. That is cancer. That is something that needs to be removed, monitored. That can potentially spread, even grow in that area. This, once it is removed, completely gone.

Now, it wouldn't be surprising, Wolf, if we hear that during President Bush's tenure that he does have other lesions removed. Once you have some it's common to have some more, but again, pretty safe. Nothing really to worry about once they are gone.

BLITZER: And the best practical advice for our viewers out there, you see any if these kinds of spots on your body, on your face, any place else, go see a dermatologist, right?

GUPTA: Get it checked out. See if it is changing in size, see if it is changing in color, see if it developing any irregular borders. Any of those things can be danger signals. Most importantly, as you said, Wolf, go check it out with your doctor.

BLITZER: Thank you very much. Doctor Sanjay Gupta, our medical correspondent.

And the crisis in the Middle East. Nest, Yasser Arafat's latest television speech. Have new words created a new opportunity? We will check that out. Stay with us.

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BLITZER: There's confusion in Haiti today. Gunmen stormed the nation's presidential palace in an attempted coup, killing four people. The attack set off bloody riots in Port-au-Prince and prompted closure of the U.S. embassy. Haitian officials say police have recaptured the palace and killed one of the gunmen. President Jean-Bertrand Aristide was not harmed.

Foreign Russian President Boris Yeltsin got a clean bill of health today from German doctors five years after heart bypass surgery. He also went to the heart specialist in Germany after being examined in Moscow. Yeltsin's time in office was of course marred by serious health problems.

In a speech marking the end of the holy month of Ramadan, the Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat urged militants to halt terrorist activities, particularly suicide bombings. CNN's Jerrold Kessel has this report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JERROLD KESSEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Foreign consuls based in Jerusalem line up to greet Yasser Arafat. Only a few days ago, he was written off by many as irrelevant. Now, suddenly, he's back at the center of attention.

YASSER ARAFAT, PRES. PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY: I'm completely committed to what I had declared, but I'm sorry to say that still, the Israelis are escalating their military (UNINTELLIGIBLE) .

KESSEL: But among questions being asked by diplomats, these: Whether he really will take on the radical Palestinian groups, or only if they challenge his cease-fire; whether he means what he says when he told Israel that negotiations really can lead to a durable peace; and whether he can convince the United States he does understand things are different since September 11.

RON BEN ASHAI, ISRAELI MILITARY ANALYST: The only novelty, the only something new, was Arafat addressing his people and explaining to them there is a new world order, and we need to adjust.

KESSEL: The Palestinian leader's police have already shut down dozens of offices linked to Hamas and Islamic jihad. Another question being asked of him: Is this the first step towards dismantling the militant Islamic groups?

After the attacks on New York and Washington three months ago, Yasser Arafat was the first in the Arab world to declare himself behind the U.S. global war on terror, showing identification with the American people by donating blood. But after three months of bloody conflict, there are still issues, unresolved issues, these raised by the former head of the CIA.

JAMES WOOSLEY, FORMER DIRECTOR, CIA: We really need to make sure that terrorism stops in the Mideast, and international terrorism, generally, not just terrorism that is targeted on Americans. And I think that hamas and Islamic jihad are very much a part of that picture, and so Arafat's being braced by the sort of things President Bush has been saying recently is accurate. He ought to feel braced.

KESSEL: President Bush's very public designation of hamas and Islamic jihad as terrorist organizations opened the way for Israel's prime minister to put the squeeze on Yasser Arafat. And Prime Minister Sharon did just that by unleashing the Israeli military against Palestinian Authority targets. Still, Ariel Sharon remains skeptical that Yasser Arafat, despite his antiterror declarations, has made or intends to make any real strategic move against those militant groups.

(on camera): For now what Yasser Arafat faces is not so much the Sharon test, but the Bush test. He's considered to have moved into a position to pass it, but without as yet having earned a pass mark.

Jerrold Kessel, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And for an interactive look at the Mideast peace crisis, log on to CNN.com. Information includes a historical timeline, profiles of the issues surrounding the crisis and key government figures. The AOL keyword: CNN.

He worked for the FBI and spied for Russia. Coming up: Did the secrets Robert Hanssen sold wind up in the hands of Osama bin Laden? Stay with us.

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BLITZER: Welcome back. A new book gives a look into the mysterious life of the convicted spy Robert Hanssen. Next month Hanssen is scheduled to be sentenced to life in prison without parole for selling secret information to the Russians.

Joining me now, to talk about Hanssen as well as another new book that is in the works, the author, Ron Kessler, who himself has written a number of books, including one on the FBI. You know a lot about this particular case. You didn't write this new book that is coming out. David Vise, of the "Washington Post" wrote that one, but speculation that reports that information, specific information, that Hanssen provided to the Russians may have wounds up in the hands of Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda organization.

How serious of a situation is that potentially?

RON KESSLER, AUTHOR, "THE FBI": Yes, I think it's about, like the question of where bin Laden is, we really don't know. "The Washington Times" did a story saying that some software that the U.S. had was given by Hansen to the Soviets, and that this was in turn sold to bin Laden. And this would have allowed bin Laden to intercept our communications. It sounds like sort of a sustained operation that you would see the KGB doing, but not bin Laden but you never know with these people.

BLITZER: The whole notion of Robert Hansen being a spy that caused an incredible amount of damage to the U.S. Did he cause more damage, in your opinion, than Aldridge Ames, another former spy serving a life sentence, a cia analyst?

KESSLER: I Do, I think he was more damaging than Ames, although Ames gave more information that resulted in more deaths -- more executions. But in terms of penetration of U.S. intelligence, I don't think there's any question that Hansen is the premier spy. He was right in the center of everything. I mean, he was able to give up almost everything there was.

BLITZER: You are an expert on the FBI. Your book on the FBI was a bestseller. But what happened there at the FBI that they allowed this Robert Hansen to be able to spy for so many years, even after apparently his brother-in-law suspected that he was spying and his brother-in-law himself was an FBI agent.

KESSLER: Well, keep in mind that this spy was incredibly good, he never even gave his name to the Soviets and -- or even the agency where he worked, despite his bizarre sexual activities and all that -- he really was a very good spy. The question of the brother-in-law, who is the agent, is still a controversy. The brother-in-law says that he did tell his supervisor that he thinks Hansen is a spy. The supervisor doesn't recall anything like that, simply that he said that Hansen was weird and was having marital trouble.