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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Where is Osama Bin Laden Now?
Aired December 27, 2001 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Now on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, Osama bin Laden brags on tape. Hear his latest claims about attacking America.
Where is he now?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't know. Wherever he is, we should arrest him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: But another Afghan official claims to be in the know.
And, the price of profiling. A passenger kicked off an American Airlines flight turns out to be one of the president's men.
Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. There's a bit of back and forth today between an Afghan official and an Islamic group in Pakistan. The debate: where is Osama bin Laden? In just a moment, the claims and counter claims. First, the latest developments.
In a newly-released videotape, Osama bin Laden says the events of September 11th shook the very core of the U.S. economy. We'll have much more on the tape a little bit later.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld refused to endorse speculation that bin Laden is being harbored in Pakistan. Rumsfeld says he hears conflicting reports of bin Laden's whereabouts. Earlier today, an Afghan official suggested bin Laden is being sheltered by Pakistani militants.
Also today, Rumsfeld denied that Pakistan has begun diverting troops from its Afghan border to handle the crisis with India. He said Washington is keeping an eye on the crisis, and says U.S. bases in Pakistan may need increased protection.
Detainees held in Afghanistan may be headed to Cuba. The Pentagon confirms the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay has been told to prepare for prisoners. Yesterday, U.S. forces took custody of 20 more prisoners in Afghanistan, bringing the total being held to 45.
There is another report today about Osama bin Laden and where he may be hiding. These reports seem to crop up daily, but this one comes from a member of the new Afghan government, and it also includes specifics. CNN's John Vause begins our coverage in Kabul.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: These new reports about Osama bin Laden whereabouts are coming from the defense spokesman here in Kabul. Mohammed Abil says he is convinced that Osama bin Laden is in fact in Pakistan, under the protection of the JUI Islamic religious party. He could be in the northwest frontier province, one of the strongholds of the JUI party. The other area, Belukistan province, another stronghold for the JUI's Islamic party. Both are very close to the Afghanistan border.
For his part, the leader of the JUI party says he has no idea where bin Laden is. He says -- quote -- if you need to know where bin Laden is, ask the new government in Afghanistan. Well, the new interim leader, Hamid Karzai, was out at a hospital in Kabul, and when asked if he knew where bin Laden was, this is what he said.
HAMID KARZAI, INTERIM AFGHAN LEADER: We don't know. Wherever he is, we should arrest him. He should be arrested, wherever he is. And given to international justice.
VAUSE: The JUI party says it has no idea where bin Laden is, no connections to bin Laden. Although it does admit it was very supportive and very pro-Taliban, organizing some very large demonstrations across Pakistan when the U.S.-led bombing campaign began in Afghanistan, on October 7th.
Still, the defense ministry spokesman, Mohammed Abil, is adamant that bin Laden is in fact in Pakistan. Although he is refusing to tell CNN where he is getting that information from.
John Vause, CNN, Kabul.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: And we've heard another message today from Osama bin Laden. It's the unreleased portion of the videotape that arrived this week at an Arab news network. As you may recall from yesterday, the date of the tape is unclear, but it refers to events that happened as late as mid November. Parts of the portions released today address the events of September 11th.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OSAMA BIN LADEN, AL QAEDA LEADER (through translator): The events of the 11th of September is just a reaction to the continuance, continuous injustice against our children, our sons, in Palestine, in Iraq, in Somalia, in Sudan, in Kashmir. They have shaken the thrown of America. And hit hard the American economy, in its heart, and it's core. They hit the most powerful military power on earth, in its core.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Joining us now to talk more about the tape, the defense policy analyst, David Isby and Hisham Melhem, the Washington bureau chief of the Lebanese newspaper, "As-Safir." Thanks, gentlemen, for joining us.
Fischer, let me begin with you. You listened to all 34 minutes in Arabic. Give us a flavor, that we may have missed, those of us who were just listening to a translation in English.
HISHAM MELHEM, "AS-SAFIR" NEWSPAPER: It's mostly vintage bin Laden. There is a bit of ranting. There is a bit of defiance. He is very angry at those Arabs, and Arab states and Muslim states, and the people who are criticizing him for committing terrorism. He is of course bemoaning the fact that Muslims throughout the world are being punished and massacred and killed. There is the defiance, calling for more attacks on the United States economy. He tries to belittle the American military performance in Afghanistan, making fun of it.
And then he talks at one time, which is really weird, about defense lines -- it reminded me of the Maginot lines. Talking about how we can withstand the American onslaught for years to come. There is a bit of rambling. And at the end, also, he finishes it with badly written poetry. So it's the usual melange.
BLITZER: Of Osama bin Laden. What did you learn today, David, from this longer version, that you didn't learn yesterday?
DAVID ISBY, DEFENSE POLICY ANALYST: Well, basically that Osama's claims to be a military strategist are as limited as an orator. His idea is, like they said, deep defensive lines, which would require more money and time than anyone has in Afghanistan. He obviously seems very much removed from the actual situation, even though he did refer to things -- he made this at a time when the al Qaeda and Taliban were military collapsing.
And he wasn't calling them for guerrilla resistance, or to oppose political consolidation. But rather, saying just builds these great static defenses, and you're set. So, I don't think he's going to make it as a strategist.
BLITZER: He did sort of demonstrate detailed knowledge of the 19 hijackers.
MELHEM: That's true. He mentioned some of their names. He mentioned the areas in Saudi Arabia from which they hailed. He mentioned the name of the Lebanese fellow, he mentioned the name of Mohammed Atta, the Egyptian fellow. He then named those two from the United Arab Emirates. He talked about -- he heaped praise on them, repeatedly, throughout the tape, on their glorious defeat, how they -- these 19 -- he didn't call them -- students, in fact, high school students, he referred to them at one time, who shook the foundations of the American economy. And then he called for more attacks on the American economy.
But it's mostly heaping praise on them, criticizing his critics in the Arab world, for repeating the American accusations for them. At the same time he was trying also to mobilize support in the Arab world. But you can tell that this is a desperate attempt on Osama's part.
BLITZER: Maybe I missed it, David, but was there a flat acknowledgement, admission that he, in fact, ordered these 19 men into action?
ISBY: No, he did not say, I did this, I gave the order. Nor did he seek to do it to present that why I was doing that. Again, although the theme is the children, America is killing the children and this is why, he prevents secondary school students, which is clearly not the case. So he is obviously trying to get this sympathy for the youth of the Islamic world, which he probably now sees as his potential audience, as he has largely been rejected elsewhere.
BLITZER: And he spends a great deal of time, Hisham, talking about the Palestinian question, and the Iraqis.
MELHEM: Exactly. The American support for Israel, which is killing the Palestinian children, he kept repeating that -- mostly, he's wrapping himself with the Palestinian cause. To a lesser extent with the suffering of the Iraqi people. And then later on, he mentioned Chechnya, he mentioned the Philippines, Somalia, and others, as if the United States also is responsible for the suffering of Muslims in those areas.
BLITZER: All right, stand by one second. Hearing what Osama bin Laden is saying is one thing, but observing Osama bin Laden's appearance is instructive, as well.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): Age, exhaustion, illness, bad lighting? Osama bin Laden's appearance on the latest videotape has generated almost as much discussion as his whereabouts.
PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: He's looking not in great shape. He has suffered from low blood pressure, diabetes. But as you can see where the change in the pallor of his face, and also his beard appears to have whitened.
BLITZER: Whatever his current state, the last four years appear to have taken a toll. Here is he in 1997, speaking to CNN. Fast forward to May, 2000, at a terrorist training camp in Afghanistan. January, 2001, at his son's wedding. Surrounded by al Qaeda fighters , this tape, released October 4th. October 7th, a cave in Afghanistan, released through al Jazeera. November 3rd, another al Jazeera videotape. Still November, a dinner party, possibly in Kandahar. And this latest tape, possibly recorded in late November, location unknown.
If he's alive, Osama bin Laden is 44 years old.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Forty-four years old. He looks a lot older than 44 years old, doesn't he, David? ISBY: Yeah, it's (UNINTELLIGIBLE) living has really paid off in his case. And I suspect also that his makeup man and his beard dye has been lost in the bombing. So he can't make himself up.
But more seriously, he does indeed, the fact that he doesn't move very much. And quite possibly he was in bad health when this started. So he may already be having medical problems.
BLITZER: What's your take, Hisham, on the appearance? Are we reading too much into this?
MELHEM: Obviously, he looks tired. Very few hours of sleep, I'm sure, in the last few days before he made that tape. You know, cave hopping is not fun. These are tough days for Osama bin Laden. And we've heard all sorts of stories that he had all sorts of illnesses, including diabetes. So I'm sure if he refuse to undertake medical attention and take medicine regularly, these are not regular days for him. Therefore, he may appear sickly, as he looked to all of us.
BLITZER: I watched all 34 minutes of that videotape, David. And I noticed he didn't move the right side of his body at all -- excuse me, the left side of his body. He was moving his right hand. Is there anything we should say in that?
ISBY: I suspect that is pretty good evidence of injury, or could be part of this signaling, which in that case, he probably had to tape it there. But I notice he still has the same weapon he always has, which is not really a practical weapon. It's the receiver of one weapon and the magazine of another, which looks cool, but is not a useful weapon.
BLITZER: Is it going to score any serious points for Osama bin Laden in the Muslim and Arab world?
MELHEM: Very few people will be swayed by the message, if there is a message there, really. But obviously, this is a cry of defiance. And for some of the few true believers, people will say, look, even the American might couldn't get to Osama bin Laden. He's still issuing these defiant videotapes.
And he's still standing up to the American onslaught. So in that sense, maybe some people will probably take note of it. But beyond that, really, he is the man on the run. He is not a mythical figure, if he ever was. And I think you know, when he is defeated, the myth will die with him.
BLITZER: OK, Hisham Melhem, David Isby, two of the best. Thanks for joining us.
And the Bush administration says Osama bin Laden's latest statements are -- quote -- "terrorist propaganda." Joining us now is White House correspondent Major Garrett. He's in Crawford, Texas, where the president is vacationing at his ranch. Any official reaction in addition to that out there, Major?
MAJOR GARRETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No, that's the same reaction the White House is sticking with today. is the reaction the White House put out yesterday. And that itself is a story, Wolf. Because the White House really feels that now if it responded in any more formal way, any more lengthy way, it would be he elevating bin Laden in a way that's simply not in the United States' or its coalition partners' overall interest.
And that's a decided change from the tact the White House took in November, November 3rd, in the aftermath of the last bin Laden tape that was released. The White House took pains to put forward an Arab speaking former ambassador to Syria, Chris Ross, to carry the official response to bin Laden's tape. This time the United States doesn't believe that's necessary, and in fact, believes any more formal response would give bin Laden more attention than he really believes.
But privately, there is a couple of observations that officials are making here, Wolf. One is in this tape, bin Laden lists a number of grievances, he said justify acts of terrorism against the West. Terrorism committed against Palestinians, the ongoing suffering of Iraqi children, those in Kashmir, and Sudan and Somalia. What White House officials take pains to point out is that none of those grievances were aired in any way in that tape released by the U.S. government on December 13th, of that small dinner gathering that bin Laden attended, that videotape of him where he was in an unguarded moment, just talking about the attacks of September 11th.
In that tape, there was no discussion of any grievances justifying the attacks, just attention paid to how well the attacks went. How he orchestrated them, or at least, he marveled at how well they had gone, from his perspective. So White House officials say it's only when he's pretaped, only when they say he is trying to carry a propaganda message, does he list these other grievances -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Major Garrett in Crawford, Texas, thank you very much. Let's shift gears slightly. Want to focus for the moment on the efforts to find Osama bin Laden. For that, we turn to our CNN military analyst, retired Army general, David Grange. He's in Chicago.
General Grange, this is a very, very difficult mission, to find one individual, or at least a handful of individuals, in a relatively big place out there, isn't it?
GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Very much so. And maybe we shouldn't get so hung up on it. You know, everybody wants to get this guy, dead or alive. And they're going to get him. IT's a matter of time. And there is a lot of speculation that he was in Tora Bora, and Pakistan and then Afghanistan. He could be anywhere. The good news is, as I look at these tapes, he continues to be -- discredit himself throughout the Islamic world. He looks haggard, he looks weak, he looks defeated.
So that's the good news. But eventually they will get him, just like they have taken down enemies of this nation and the free world elsewhere in history. They'll get him.
BLITZER: There was some concern expressed, at least by a few people, that the Pakistani military, which has been very much involved working with the U.S., especially along the border, may divert some of its troops from, the hunt for Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda elsewhere, because of the tensions where India.
Now, the Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, General Grange, spoke about that earlier today. I want to you to listen to what the secretary had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: They have not yet moved forces from the Afghan border. And that is very encouraging to us, because it would be a big disappointment to us, needless to say. Because they are performing important tasks. They must have seven or eight, nine battalions along the Pakistan-Afghan border, which is clearly a deterrent to people trying to come across, trying to escape from Afghanistan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Obviously, there would be severe disappointment, General Grange, if the Pakistani forces left that border area. How important is that whole issue?
GRANGE: Well, I don't believe that Pakistan will move all of the troops, with the situation with India. A lot of it's going to be the type of the military involved, in that friction between those two nations. And if you had light infantry type military, along the Afghanistan border, I don't think that would take away from any concern or alert that Pakistan may be on.
And besides, it's not the number of troops involved, it's the resourcing on intelligence gathering, and having the right type of force available to strike, to move in and capture someone, if the information is available. So, there's different types of missions, and I think they will always have some kind of troops involved in supporting the pursuit of the al Qaeda and bin Laden.
BLITZER: General Grange, how comfortable are you about the fact that the U.S. Marines aren't apparently going to go into the Tora Bora cave-by-cave search anytime soon? There are going to be very few, in fact, U.S. forces involved. Mostly, the United States is going to rely on the Eastern Alliance forces that are already there.
Is this sort of farming out what the U.S. should be doing itself, in the search for Osama bin Laden?
GRANGE: It's hard to say, Wolf, without having all the information or the other tasks that may be involved in this campaign. The military leaders are probably juggling different types of units to perform different types of tasks, what they call troop to task requirements. And so -- then you have winter movement. And a lot of these places may be hard to get to at this time anyway, and they may have to wait it out until better weather comes in the spring.
But I think there's a balance there, between showing commitment, allied forces, in a dangerous area, let's say. At least we presume it is. And then using surrogates to do some of this dirty work, again, if you want to call it that. So I'm sure there's a balance there, that our Department of Defense, our coordinators and our allies are trying to sort out, with who's committed to look through this area.
BLITZER: And, General Grange, lest we forget that the U.S. is still engaged in military actions, the Pentagon today released some pictures of the before and after U.S. strike. Let's show our viewers the before and after, these pictures of a Taliban leadership compound, that's the description, near Ghanzi, in southeastern Afghanistan. The compound was struck yesterday after U.S. forces received information that Taliban leaders were there.
You can see these two sets of pictures, the before and after. The military campaign is still continuing, General Grange, albeit on a much smaller scale.
GRANGE: I think you're going to continue to see this type of operation. It may be one reason. This leads perfectly into why Marines may not be up in the Tora Bora area. If there is intelligence in other places, south, northwest of Kandahar, those kind of areas, southeast of Kandahar. They may be kept there to respond to some of these situations, where you need ground, not only air, to perform the operations. So that may be one reason they're not up in Tora Bora.
BLITZER: General Grange, thank you very much for joining us.
And this note: CNN terrorism analyst Peter Bergen will join me in "THE WAR ROOM" to further analyze the Osama bin Laden tape. That's at 7:00 p.m. Eastern, 4 Pacific. And you can participate. Simply go to my Web page, cnn.com/wolf. Click on "Send Questions." I'll try to get as many of those questions answered by our panel. That's also, by the way, where you can read my daily on-line column.
Up next, the question of prudence or profiling. The very highly placed connections of an Arab-American man, ordered off a plane. Also, tracking the well-heeled travels of the alleged shoe bomber.
Later, we'll take you back to the bus station to retrace the steps of a mother who's still searching for her missing baby.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. The Secret Service is investigating a dispute between one of its own and an American Airlines pilot that led to the agent's removal from a flight. CNN's Jeanne Meserve is here with the details. Jeanne, what happened?
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, in this era of heightened airline an airport security, an armed law enforcement agent might be welcomed on a flight. But that was not the case this week for a member of the Secret Service, a seven-year veteran who, for the past two years, has guarded the life of the president.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) (voice-over): Air Force 1 took President Bush to his Texas ranch Wednesday. A member of his Secret Service detail, Arab-American in name and appearance, was slated to fly to Texas commercially the night before, but he didn't make it.
IBRAHIM HOOPER, COUN. ON AMERICAN-ISLAMIC RELATIONS: I think it's clear that if this person wasn't Muslim, wasn't an Arab-American, there wouldn't have been a problem.
MESERVE: At Baltimore-Washington International Airport, the agent filled out the required paperwork explaining what weapons he carried and why. American Airlines says the captain of the airline found inconsistencies in the paperwork. They were not cleared up to the captain's satisfaction, and after holding the flight up for an hour, the pilot exercised the authority given to him by the Federal Aviation Administration, and removed the agent from his flight because he felt he posed a security risk.
But the agent tells the Council on American-Islamic Relations he was put off and on the flight repeatedly, despite his best efforts to clarify who he was.
HOOPER: The police who were called were satisfied to his identity. He offered to have the Secret Service verify his identity. But apparently this wasn't good enough for the captain of the flight.
MESERVE: The matter was eventually straightened out and the agent flew to Texas the next day, where he is now guarding the president at his ranch.
American Airlines is standing by its pilot, who, it says, took appropriate action to protect his aircraft, passengers and crew. American denies the agent's ethnicity was any factor. On September 21, the Department of Transportation issued a caution to airlines, saying, "not only is it wrong, but it is also illegal to discriminate against people based on their race, ethnicity, or religion." Nonetheless, it has received 20 complaints involving alleged ethnically-based removals from flights.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
American Airlines says in this age of heightened security, anybody carrying a gun would have received similar scrutiny. But a spokesman could not recall any other incident where a person with clearance to guard the president could not get clearance to fly.
I should say, Wolf, however, that we've just been told by the Department of Transportation that there has been at least one other incident where a federal investigator was removed from a flight. We don't know what federal agency he worked for, and we don't know what airline was involved.
BLITZER: And we remember, Congressman Darrell Issa from California, United States congressman who was on this program. He was denied permission to board a flight because, presumably, of his own Arab ancestry. But tell me what's wrong with this picture, Jeanne. American Airlines, there is one flight they have from Paris to Miami.
Richard Reid, the alleged shoe bomber, he gets on that plane and flies, and of course, does what he does on that plane. But a United States Secret Service officer is denied permission by American Airlines? It sounds like a horrible public relations problem for American Airlines.
MESERVE: Well, American Airlines won't say whether there is any connection here, but let me speculate for a moment, that there could be. That after the Richard Reid incident, every pilot for American Airlines had to put themselves on heightened state of alert, and probably were scrutinizing each and every passenger on their flight more carefully.
And this man came along on Tuesday night, just a couple of days after the Richard Reud incident. Bingo, they see some inconsistency in the paperwork. And perhaps it was a factor, the airline says not, but perhaps it was a factor that he was an Arab-American.
BLITZER: OK, Jeanne Meserve, good reporting. Thank you very much.
MESERVE: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: And, was the airline justified in keeping the agent off the flight? Joining us now from Denver for more on this sensitive issue is Michael Boyd, the president and CEO of Boyd Group Aviation Systems Research Corporation. Michael, thanks for joining us.
What's the answer to that question? Was American Airlines justified in keeping the Secret Service agent off the plane?
MICHAEL BOYD PRES. & CEO, THE BOYD GROUP: I believe so. I believe if the captain of the aircraft feels there are inconsistencies or any safety issue whatsoever, we need to go with him. Remember the Richard Reid incident, American Airlines found some strange problems with Mr. Reid, sent him back to French security. French security cleared him. He was made (UNINTELLIGIBLE). He got on the airplane after all that screening, and we still found out he had mayhem on his mind.
So in this case, I think American needs to be commended. I suspect it had nothing to do, per se, with his ethnicity. It had to do with the fact that he had a gun. He claimed to be Secret Service. If there were any kind of inconsistencies, a T not crossed, an I not dotted, the captain did the right thing.
BLITZER: So you believe that if his name did not have an Arabic sound to it, let's say, or Middle Eastern nature to the name, if he had some sort of Irish name, he probably would have been denied permission to get on the plane as well?
BOYD: I think in this case, yes, sir. That's not to say that someone with an Arabic name doesn't have some challenges for collateral security damage, if you want to put it that way, in terms of being screened. But I think in this case, American did the right thing. And I think, in this case, if it was Mr. Blitzer or Mr. Boyd, I think we would have been denied as well, sir.
BLITZER: When does the whole issue of profiling, though, enter into a sensitive issue like this? As you know, a lot of security experts want to do extensive ethnic racial profiling of passengers.
BOYD: I think profiling is good. We profile in every kind of crime investigation. As long as it's not done specifically on the basis of someone's last name, appearance, or their ethnicity, it's a good thing. I mean, you put that into the mix. But doing it simply because someone has a last name like Mohammed, that is wrong. But looking at all the aspects of it, it comes into being part of the mix, yes.
BLITZER: And does the captain of a commercial airliner have the final say on who gets on that plane and who doesn't get on the plane?
BOYD: You bet. That's his airplane or her airplane. And when the captain in command speaks, he or she is listened to. And that's for safety issues. And again, we have had several incidents where we have had security problems. The FAA losing control of a grenade, or a test grenade a couple weeks ago. The captain there took action in that case. And the captain in this case took action.
We have to support what those captains do, because look, they fly $80 million pieces of equipment. They know what they're doing. They're highly trained, they're highly educated. I would take their word for it.
BLITZER: And, Michael, finally, is there -- approaching a case right now, where, because of all the heightened security concerns, the airlines are going to go too far in trying to protect their plane and their passengers, and go overboard, if you will?
BOYD: I think that certainly would be the tendency to some degree. As long as it isn't done on a purely racial basis, there is not much we can do about it. And I think we need to go that way. But, again, what happened with Flight 63 from Paris, it clearly shows, even when there is additional scrutiny, ugly things can still happen, sir.
BLITZER: OK, Michael Boyd, thanks for joining us.
BOYD: Thank you.
BLITZER: We appreciate it very much.
And we have a quick vote, a very nonscientific vote that we asked our viewers at CNN.com to give us their opinions: "Was the president's Secret Service agent racially profiled when he was barred from boarding a plane?" Here are the answers: 55 percent say yes; 45 percent say no -- roughly pretty evenly divided in this very unscientific survey.
And let's do a quick check of some other stories from our "Newswire": Call it a case of automatic pilot taken to the extreme. A small plane that took off by itself has been found in California. The pilot was working on the aircraft when the engine, running -- with the engine running -- when it broke from its moorings and flew off. It apparently flew for about 20 miles before crashing into the ground.
Two men hung around in suburban Atlanta this morning 75 feet above the ground. Their small plane ran out of fuel and ended up in a power line a few miles from an airport. It was about six hours before firefighters were able to rescue them.
Four days before he is set to leave office, New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani today delivered a farewell address. Speaking about a block from ground zero, Giuliani said the site of the World Trade Center should be turn into a memorial. He also said he is leaving the city that's changed for the better.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDOLPH GIULIANI (R), MAYOR OF NEW YORK: There is one big change that has taken has place. That's the most important and the one that I wanted to bring about. And that one I'm really sure of. It's the change in the spirit of the city. That city that used to be the rotting apple that 60, 70, 80 percent of the people wanted to leave and nobody wanted to come to, that city now is a very strong and it's confident city. It's a city that has withstood the worst attack of any city in America or in the history of America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Today's developments in America's new war is next -- and the many travels of accused shoe bomber Richard Reid. Find out which direction the clues lead.
Also, the al Qaeda detainees in Afghanistan: Where will they be going? How will they be tried?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
Some of the al Qaeda and Taliban prisoner in U.S. custody may soon find themselves thousands of miles away In just a moment, we'll have latest on the man who smuggled explosives onto an airplane and may have tried to light them.
But first, the latest developments in America's new war: In a newly-released videotape, Osama bin Laden says the events of September 11 shook the very core of the U.S. economy. He said the attacks on America were a reaction to injustice against Muslims.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld refused today to endorse speculation that bin Laden is being harbored in Pakistan. Rumsfeld says he hears conflicting accounts of bin Laden's whereabouts. Earlier today, an Afghan official suggested bin Laden is being sheltered by Pakistani militants.
Detainees held in Afghanistan may be headed to Cuba. The Pentagon confirms the U.S. Naval base at Guantanamo Bay has been told to prepare for prisoners. Yesterday, U.S. forces took custody of 20 more prisoners in Afghanistan, bringing the total now being held to 45.
The former U.S. Senator George Mitchell will oversee the Red Cross' controversial Liberty Disaster Fund. The fund has raised $667 million and was criticized for its plan to spend some of the money on projects not related to the September 11 disaster. Since leaving the Senate, Mitchell has taken on the peace process in Northern Ireland and the Middle East as well as advising baseball on how to restructure.
Each day new clues are brought about involving Richard Reid, the man accused of trying to ignite explosives hidden inside his shoes on board the American Airlines flight from Paris to Miami.
CNN national correspondent Susan Candiotti joins us now live from Miami to help sort through all the latest information -- Susan.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Wolf.
We are now learning more about Richard Reid's travels in the six months before he boarded that American Airlines flight, his sneakers allegedly packed with explosives. Last July, Israeli sources say Reid spent about 10 days there. The FBI is working with authorities tracking Reid's movements, looking into whether he was on recon mission or whether he met anyone there.
Before boarding a flight to Israel, El-Al security tells CNN Reid got a body search. Even his shoes were removed. Authorities will not say in which city this happened, nor why Reid was singled out.
Now, from August through November, Reid spent a lot of time in Amsterdam. And he did work as a dishwasher there. In December, investigators put him in Brussels, where, as a British citizen, he was issued a passport at the British embassy there. Belgium sources say he also spent a lot of time in Internet cafes surfing the Net and sending e-mails.
On December 17 in Paris, according to sources, he pays about $1,800 cash for a round-trip ticket from Paris to Miami and Antigua. And several Paris restaurants near one of the major train stations there say they recognized Reid from dining in their restaurants. They say he was alone. And last week, as we now know, Reid boarded that American Airlines plane heading for Miami -- a lot of traveling for a man who apparently didn't hold a steady job -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Susan, yesterday, we learned that he prayed at the same mosque in London as Zacarias Moussaoui, who is the suspect arrested by U.S. authorities in connection with September 11. Is there any other new information we learned today about any possible -- possible -- links between Richard Reid and al Qaeda?
CANDIOTTI: No. Authorities are still looking for any possible connections, not only any time that the two men might have spent together, Moussaoui and Reid, in London, possibly at that mosque, where they both attended for a certain period of time. But, also, you will recall there is information from detainees in being held in Afghanistan, who claim that Moussaoui -- that they spotted Reid in some training camps in Afghanistan. We have heard from Reid's mother now, who is in seclusion at her home about an hour or two outside London. She issued a statement through an attorney, saying that she knows nothing more about these allegations other than what she has heard in the media and says she is -- quote -- "shocked and concerned" about them.
BLITZER: Susan Candiotti, thank you very much for covering this story for us from Miami.
Meanwhile, some al Qaeda fighters in the United States custody may be in for a very long trip -- when we return, a base close to home that could soon accept them.
And later: the race at sea interrupted by Mother Nature.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
Some of the al Qaeda and Taliban prisoners in U.S. custody may soon find themselves thousands of miles away from Afghanistan. Pentagon officials today confirmed the U.S. Naval base at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba is being told to prepare to receive prisoners. U.S. ships at sea are also being considered as other detention sites. Prisoners in U.S. custody could face military tribunals, though it's still unclear how and under what rules they'll take place.
For more on that, we're joined now by Eugene Fidell. He is a military law attorney.
And let me begin by asking you this, Mr. Fidell: What is difference between technically calling somebody a prisoner of war as opposed to a detainee?
EUGENE FIDELL, MILITARY LAW ATTORNEY: If you call somebody a prison of war, that is a legal conclusion. And from that, a number of consequences follow under the third Geneva Convention on the treatment of prisoners of war.
For example, a person who is a prisoner of war has to have a right to review of any prosecution against him in the same appellate process that is used by the detaining power's own court-martial system. That's just one of a number. Another would be you have a right to pick your own attorney. There are a variety of legal consequences that flow once you put that label on somebody.
BLITZER: So you are suggesting that POWs have greater rights than detainees.
FIDELL: Yes, detainees, that is not a term that has any specific connotation. It is simply a descriptor. You are in somebody's custody.
BLITZER: So who makes that determination whether some Afghan fighter, Taliban fighter, an al Qaeda fighter is a detainee or a POW?
FIDELL: Well, it's a label that is applied both internally, and then, eventually, other countries could take a position on that.
BLITZER: And the purpose of bringing them to Guantanamo Bay -- I remember, I was in Guantanamo Bay a few times when the U.S. brought the Haitian refugees there. They didn't want them to get on U.S. soil in mainland United States. What is the point of bringing them to Guantanamo Bay?
FIDELL: I think there is a couple purposes, sir.
No. 1, they would be in good, secure U.S. custody, rather than having the danger, for example, of rescue missions or jailbreaks by these individuals, but also not inside the territory of the United States. In other words, they wouldn't be immediately subject to the jurisdiction of any federal court. That has implications in terms of the availability of habeas corpus.
BLITZER: So, presumably, organizations like the ACLU, American Civil Liberties Union, couldn't do much to these detainees in Guantanamo Bay even though it's U.S. property. But they could do something if they wanted to intervene on behalf of these detainees if they were brought to, let's say, Miami.
FIDELL: I don't know what the undertakings will be by organizations on behalf of these individuals. I assume they are going to be represented by counsel. And, indeed, it's very interesting. A number of uniformed lawyers I understand are very, very anxious to become involved in the case, both as prosecutors and defense counsels. So I would say watch this base.
BLITZER: Presumably, some of the detainees would face these military tribunals that President Bush himself would have to authorize.
FIDELL: Well, we may have taken a step in that direction by this planned transportation to Guantanamo Bay.
BLITZER: OK, Mr. Fidell, thanks for joining us.
FIDELL: My pleasure.
BLITZER: Appreciate it.
And what about all those people rounded up here in the United States? You can find out about their status tonight on "THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN." That's at 8:30 p.m. Eastern, 5:30 over on the West Coast.
President Bush has granted permanent normal trade relations status to China. Congress approved the move last year, making it contingent on China's entry into the World Trade Organization. China formally joined the WTO December 11. The president also put an end to the 1974 law that withholds normal trade relations with communist states that restrict immigration. Checking other stories from overseas: Police in Australia say arson may be to blame for almost half of the 100 wildfires burning in New South Wales. The flames have destroyed homes and forced mass evacuations this week. They have also left Sydney covered with smoke and ash.
And a huge water spout came dangerously close to some of the participants in the Sydney-to-Hobart yacht race off the east coast of Australia. It almost carried away the Swedish team's skipper, who said the twister followed his boat. He described the experience as -- quote -- "surreal."
On the home front, the parents of an abducted baby make more public pleas and answers tough questions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF FLOCK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, that's the first thing they think about, the police think about, is they wonder if the parents are involved somehow.
MARCELLA ANDERSON, MOTHER OF JASMINE: No, I love my baby. I would never, ever do anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: When we return, CNN's Jeff Flock goes back to the scene of this very, very sad disappearance. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: It was a decision that had as much suspense as the naming of a new Miss America. The Miss America Pageant decided to stay -- stay -- in Atlantic City, home for its entire 80 years. Pageant officials had threatened to move it, saying it was losing money there. The task force will see ways to make the pageant profitable.
And if you're planning on shuffling off to Buffalo anytime soon, bring along your snowshoes. The snowfall so far this week has totaled -- get this -- 50 inches. And it's still snowing.
John Kosich of WKBW, our affiliate there, joins us now from downtown.
John, I take it this is big even by our own Buffalo standards. Is there any concern about the public safety right now?
JOHN KOSICH, WKBW REPORTER: Not really. One good thing about this storm is the fact that it fell during a holiday week. So you had a lot people already off from school and work, so that the plows and the snow crews are able to get out and do their part.
But, keep in mind, right now, the city of downtown Buffalo, we're getting a bit of a break. The snows have shifted to the south, where they are getting snow at the rate of 3 inches an hour, which is what fell here in downtown Buffalo for the better part of the day. We have seen, in some parts of Western New York, 40 inches of snow. Now, keep in mind, that is on top of 25 inches of snow that fell over Christmas Eve and Christmas night. Let me try and walk through this here.
Now, as a result, there are a lot of driving bans and travel advisories in effect throughout the area. The good part is, again, this was a holiday week. The bad part is the fact that the weather pattern that caused these lake-effect snows, they say, the weather forecasters, that this is going to be in place for the next day or two. So we can expect to see, on top the 50 inches that you talked about, another 1-2 feet by tonight, tomorrow morning and tomorrow afternoon.
And who knows as we head into the weekend. There is very little fluctuation in this weather pattern as well. So Buffalonians, they know how to deal with snow. But even this might be a little bit too much for them -- Wolf.
BLITZER: John, thanks for walking through that snow for us.
(LAUGHTER)
BLITZER: Give us a sense. The airport was closed at least for a day earlier in the week. What else is closed? Is it still closed?
KOSICH: The airport is closed again right now. We have about 50 miles of the New York State Throughway closed that is closed from Batavia to Hamburg. We have a lot of roads in and around the city of Buffalo.
If you just look just off to the side here, we have a skyway, which is a major route, Route 5. That is closed down at this hour as well. A lot of side streets -- the plows have just been out trying to do what they can to clear things out and about. But, again, fortunately, it has been a holiday week. So they haven't had to deal with what we had to deal with last November, when the city got shut down on less snow than this.
BLITZER: There it is, Buffalo Skyway, the sign for the Buffalo Skyway.
John Kosich, thanks so much for joining us from our excellent affiliate, Channel 7, WKBW, in Buffalo, New York. I grew up watching that station. Thank you very much.
KOSICH: Thank you.
BLITZER: And let's go to New York now, New York City, about 400 miles away from Buffalo, and get a preview of "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE." That begins at the top of the hour. Jan Hopkins is filling in for Lou.
You are probably happy you are doing it from New York City, Jan, and not from Buffalo.
JAN HOPKINS, "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE": That is right. It is cold here, but no snow yet. Thanks, Wolf.
Coming up tonight: the latest on the Osama bin Laden videotape, the possible whereabouts of the world's most wanted man. We will be joined by terrorism expert Peter Bergen.
India and Pakistan raise the stakes in their standoff. We'll have the latest details. And the chairman of the insurance company AFLAC tells why you will be seeing more of his famous duck -- all that and more at the top of the hour -- now back to Wolf in Washington.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Jan.
And switching gears dramatically right now: The mother of a 16- month-old girl allegedly abducted from a Chicago bus station made more public pleas today for the safe return of her child. Police still haven't found any trace of the girl or the woman accused of kidnapping her.
Our Chicago bureau chief, Jeff Flock, has been following this story. He joins us now live with the latest -- Jeff.
FLOCK: Indeed, live from the studios of our Chicago bureau tonight, Wolf.
Her name is Jasmine Anderson. Some potential late developments in the story tonight that we are working as we speak -- we hope to have those for you soon. But, first, I can tell you that this girl was abducted allegedly from the bus station in Chicago on Christmas Eve. I spent a good bit of time with her parents today. And they walked us through their story of what they say happened.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: I got out of my taxi a little bit down here.
FLOCK (voice-over): We asked Marcella Anderson to come back here: the Greyhound bus station in Chicago.
ANDERSON: This is about how it looked when I first came and I had to wait in line.
FLOCK: It's first time she has returned since police brought her here, just after she says her 16-month-old daughter Jasmine was kidnapped on Christmas Eve by a woman looking something like this.
ANDERSON: She came up to about here and said how cute the baby was and all.
FLOCK: Anderson walked us through the terminal, explained how the woman offered a ride home to Milwaukee, and said she would hold Jasmine while Anderson and her older daughter cashed in their bus tickets.
ANDERSON: And then she started to walk off to about here. And then I called out to her and said "Stop." And she made her way around the corner. And we went after her. And it was full over there. And I couldn't find her. And I tried to go out the door over here. And there was people sitting everywhere and standing everywhere. And just -- I couldn't find her.
FLOCK (on camera): On the streets of Chicago, one missing child and lots of question: How could someone steal a baby on Christmas Eve? How could a mother leave her child with someone, a stranger, in a crowded bus station? And could possibly the parents themselves involved?
ANDERSON: I don't have enemies. I don't know anybody who would want to take my baby.
FLOCK: There is nothing weird going on that could explain this in some way?
ANDERSON: No.
FLOCK (voice-over): After the latest of many national live TV interviews designed to spread the word about Jasmine, Anderson and the baby's father, Greg Knowles, sat in my office and took all the tough questions.
FLOCK (on camera): And you know the first thing they think about, the police think about, is they wonder if the parents are involved somehow.
ANDERSON: No, I love my baby. I would never, ever do anything. And I was just under stress at that time. I just wanted someone to help.
GREG KNOWLES, FATHER OF JASMINE: She just wasn't aware of what was really going on. She didn't take that second thought. That's all. I know sometimes...
FLOCK: So, you don't blame her?
KNOWLES: ... she didn't take that -- sometimes, she doesn't take that second thought. But, no, I don't blame her.
FLOCK (voice-over): In the end, the trip to the bus station yields no new memories or clues.
FLOCK (on camera): And this looks pretty much like the woman that...
(voice-over): They are relying on 10,000 copies of this alert that have been handed out. The search continues.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FLOCK: Well, Wolf, what I'm about to tell you sort of makes this all worthwhile. We have now just confirmed with the Chicago FBI, the child has just been found in a place called Williamson, West Virginia. The child, 16-month-old Jasmine, is said to be safe. One woman is said to be in custody -- the Pittsburgh and West Virginia offices of the FBI apparently participating. This has been confirmed to us now. Jasmine Anderson by -- 16 months old, I should say -- 16 months old, Jasmine Anderson been found. This has been confirmed for us by the Chicago FBI. The Chicago Police Department has a news conference scheduled in just a little more than one hour's time to give us further details about this. But some amazing good news for 16-month-old Jasmine Anderson and her family, with whom we spent a good part of this day today. And I have got to believe that they're pretty happy people right now -- Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Jeff Flock, breaking this story, the 16-month-old little girl found alive and well, thank you very much for that good news. You're absolutely right. It was well worth the wait.
And I will be back in one hour with more coverage here in the CNN "War Room" -- CNN terrorism analyst and bin Laden expert Peter Bergen among my guests, 7:00 p.m. Eastern, 4:00 Pacific.
Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. CNN's coverage of America's new war continues next with "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE."
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