Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Did Investigators Overlook Warning Signs in Moussaoui Case?; Is al Qaeda Regrouping?; Is the Economy Turning a Corner?
Aired January 02, 2002 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN KING, GUEST HOST: Now on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS. He was arrested weeks before the September 11th attacks. Did investigators overlook warning signs? Arraignment for the only person so far charged with plotting hijackings and murder. How to prosecute and defend Zacarias Moussaoui.
Is the al Qaeda trying to regroup? The Taliban still pose a threat, as U.S. Marines comb a compound for clues. And special forces look for the leaders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REAR ADM. JOHN STUFFLEBEEM, JOINT STAFF DEPUTY OPS. DIRECTOR: We are on the hundred.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Is the economy turning a corner? What you ought to do to make sure your current job is secure and your next job is better.
I'm John King, sitting in for Wolf Blitzer.
Zacarias Moussaoui is the first person to be charged in America's war on terror. And his prosecution could set the pattern for future al Qaeda trials. Prosecutors have put forward a ton of evidence they say links him to September 11th, but no single smoking gun that ties him directly to the attacks.
We'll preview his trial in just a moment. But first, a look at the latest developments. Several hundred Marines return to base near Kandahar today after flying out on Monday. The Pentagon says the Marines searched a compound that may have been abandoned by Taliban leader, Mohammed Omar. Earlier, Pentagon officials had denied the existence of that Marine deployment.
Some of the Taliban leaders believed to be defending Omar are involved in surrender negotiations. The talks are being conducted in the Baghran region, with Omar is reportedly hiding. An Afghan commander involved in the effort says he will not let the talks drag out.
A Pentagon spokesman says there is no credible evidence suggesting Osama bin Laden is with Omar. Some reports suggesting the two were together began to circulate on Monday. The same spokesman said today that scattered members of bin Laden's al Qaeda militia may be regrouping inside Afghanistan.
In this country, the only person charged in regards to September 11th refused to enter a plea today. A federal judge in Virginia entered not guilty pleas on behalf of Zacarias Moussaoui. The government says Moussaoui engaged in the same preparations as the 19 hijackers, and that he shared their goals.
And so we begin today with Moussaoui. He was in jail September 11th. And were it not for that, some believe he would have taken part in one of the four hijackings. CNN's Deborah Feyerick was in the courtroom today in northern Virginia when Moussaoui was arraigned on conspiracy charges -- Deborah.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, Zacarias Moussaoui seemed almost defiant walking into the Alexandria courtroom. His hands and his feet not shackled, though he was escorted by two very big federal marshals. Seconds into his arraignment, he stood, addressing the judge. He did not plead guilty or not guilty, instead invoking his god, saying, "In the name of Allah, I did not have anything to plea. I enter no plea." The judge said she interpreted that as a not guilty, and Moussaoui's lawyer said yes.
Now, there are two official theories on Moussaoui. The first is that he may have been part of a second wave of hijackers preparing attacks. The second theory is that he was supposed to be on the September 11th mission, possibly on the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania. That was the only plane with four, not five, hijackers.
Prosecutors have linked Moussaoui to the suspected ringleader of the 9-11 attacks on the Pentagon and the World Trade Center. Prosecutors say Moussaoui was getting money from one of Mohammed Atta's Hamburg roommates, and that Moussaoui was training at a flight school visited by Mohammed Atta.
Now, Moussaoui has been linked to the same mosque attended by suspected shoe bomber, Richard Reid. And the question is, why wasn't Moussaoui on one of the skyjacked planes? Well, he was in jail, taken into custody on immigration charges after a flight instructor at his training school got suspicious as to Moussaoui's reasons for wanting to fly.
A letter has surfaced indicating that back in August, a full month before, FBI agents and that flight instructor talked about the possibility that Moussaoui wanted to use the plane as a flying bomb. The FBI has repeatedly defended its handling of Moussaoui, saying they didn't have enough information to justify a search of his computer at the time. A source tells CNN Moussaoui has never cooperated with investigators, and that at the time, there was nothing to suggest a broader plot was in the works.
At today's arraignment, the judge set the trial date for October 15th. Moussaoui's lawyers were hoping for an even later date, saying that the amount of evidence that they have to go through is simply massive, and that it will likely take them to four different countries, including France, Belgium, Spain and Britain. The judge said if they needed more help with interpreters or lawyers, the court will make sure they get it.
Prosecutors have until the end of March to decide whether they're going to seek the death penalty -- John.
KING: Moussaoui refused to enter a plea today. Any speaking to his lawyers, any interaction in the courtroom at all to give us any insight on his demeanor?
FEYERICK: No, not really. He sat back during the entire arraignment process. He was stroking his beard at one point, he was looking at the judge. And then when the judge finished with all of the proceedings and all the motions, she stood up to go. The entire courtroom stood with her, except Zacarias Moussaoui. He simply continued to sit in the chair. And it wasn't until she had left the courtroom and one of the U.S. marshals tapped him on the shoulder and said, "let's go," that he actually finally got up, basically showing the judge a complete lack of respect.
KING: And you say his lawyers want more time, even though this trial is scheduled in October. Many might say, why 10 months? It's January now, why are we waiting until October? Especially given the obvious high-profile nature of this case? Any answer from the government to that question?
FEYERICK: Well, the government thinks October is plenty of time, with -- you know, to go forward. But, take into consideration that they have prosecuted a number of terrorism trials. These federal defenders that are taking Moussaoui's case, they are starting from zero. They are starting from scratch. They don't really know the background. They want to study up on the principles of Islam. So they're going to have a lot of work to do before they can even get up to speed to defend him properly.
KING: CNN's Deborah Feyerick, thank you very much.
We are hoping to bring you shortly Zacarias Moussaoui's mother. She is supposed to be leaving Washington to return to France. If she comes and speaks to reporters, we will attempt to bring you that live, if possible. Joining us now to talk about the trial next fall, Pam Stuart, a former federal prosecutor, now a criminal defense attorney. And in New York, defense attorney Pam Hayes.
Pam Smart (sic), let me start with you. As a prosecutor in this case, October trial date, the American people see the first person charged directly related to the September 11th attacks brought into court. They have to ask the question, why will they wait to October to see a trial?
PAM STUART, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, October would be a really fast-track trial date for this kind of a case. I've just taken a look at the indictment, and the indictment really covers the whole al Qaeda conspiracy, including all of the overt acts, I guess, that are known to date, that Osama bin Laden and Mohammed Atta and all of the conspirators that we've been hearing about. And it appears that Mr. Moussaoui is really one of the cogs in the wheel, so to speak. But to put on the entire case, they've got to put on the entire case against everybody. So my guess would be that that October trial date is very soft.
KING: And, Pam Hayes, if you were representing Mr. Moussaoui, you have 10 months to prepare your case. First and foremost, do you believe, given all of the media reports about the hijackings, the tragedy in this country, can he receive a fair trial? And what are the pros and cons of this being done in the federal court system, where of course, there are no television cameras let in -- so limited access, if you will, to direct pictures for the American people to see?
PAM HAYES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I would argue if I was his attorney that he probably could not get a fair trial. And I would be working on various motions for a change of venue, possibly at one of the other locations. Because when you have a conspiracy, any overt act, or any act where you did the conspiracy is a place of venue.
In the northern district of Virginia, everybody knows that that is a very conservative area. The judges are conservative. The citizens are conservative, that you're going to have to draw for the jury pool. And I would be trying everything I could do to see if perhaps I could get it to Pennsylvania. But surely, away from Virginia.
But I don't think 10 months is a lot of time, John. It's a little bit of time, compared to what these people have to prepare themselves. It's not just some ordinary conspiracy case. This is a conspiracy case that has incredible proportions, because there are thousands of people who are dead. I mean, the whole principle of terrorism is on trial.
And I think that, as a defense attorney, you have to bring yourself up to snuff to get a hold on this. And it's just not any one particular type of case. It's just knowing the land. There are going to be state secrets. You have to qualify to be a lawyer. You know, they're not going to let the average Joe just be a lawyer for this individual, because they're on a CJA panel. So it's pretty tough for them to get it together in 10 months. And I'd be very surprised if they could.
And as far as not having cameras in the courtroom, I think it would be something that I would urge the court to have in the courtroom, because it's one way that we can assure that everybody sees what is happening. You could say that it will be a fair overview of what's going on. But you know, you just never know. You have to wait until the right moment and see what's going to happen with your jury pool.
KING: OK, and, Pam Stuart, excuse me for -- pardon me for getting the wrong name at the beginning of the conversation. I called you Pam Smart, not Pam Stuart. Take us into the prosecutor's deliberations. This is the first of what will likely be many trials. Does that raise the bar, if you will? You are bringing forward classified information as evidence. You certainly want to win a conviction in the first case to set the confidence level of your team, and certainly the confidence level of the American people that you have a good case.
How does that affect the deliberations on how to proceed, when you know the high profile nature of the case and that this is No. 1?
STUART: Well, I think as Pam suggested, this indictment was very carefully thought out. And they chose to bring it in the eastern district of Virginia in Alexandria. And there are a number of reasons to bring it there. There are prosecutors in that office who have a tremendous amount of experience in high-profile spy cases, where classified information is used all the time. So they'll know how to handle that, under the Classified Information Procedures Act.
Secondly, it is in perhaps the most conservative circuit court area. So if the case goes up on appeal, they have a very friendly circuit court. But my guess is, looking at this case, that it's going to expand, and that what the government is anticipating is that others named in the indictment will be captured between now and October, and probably will be tried together with Mr. Moussaoui.
He was the first one arrested and so he is the first one indicted. But I would be very surprised if he is the only one tried in that courtroom in October.
KING: And, Pam Hayes, by all accounts, this is a gentleman who has not cooperated with investigators so far. Given that he is the first one in custody, and given that the United States government wants, is desperate, for more information about how these groups are organized, how many more cells might still be in the United States, how are they organized overseas -- if you were going through that evidence in the next six to eight months and you found it compelling, would you go to your client and say, sir, you have some leverage, here. They have several death penalty counts against you, but you are the first one and they need some help. You can get out of the death penalty if you cooperate.
HAYES: I think that might be an option that any lawyer would always have to explain to his or her client. If you don't let a person know what their options are, you're basically doing them a disservice. But the type of ideology that Mr. Moussaoui has, I don't know if he really would be -- look favorable to that type of offer. He might testify, but it seems that his hatred for America is just so much that they're not looking to do anything to, you know, help the government, much less the government of the United States in this particular instance.
But I certainly would bring it up, because it's one of the only options that he does have. And it is very important.
KING: Pam Hayes, I'm sorry to interrupt. Pam Stuart, thank you as well. We're going to take you now out to Dulles Airport, just outside of Washington D.C. Aicha El Wafi, the mother of Zacarias Moussaoui, and her attorney, Francois Roux. AICHA EL WAFI, MOUSSAOUI'S MOTHER (through translator): Well, as I told you, from the first days that I put my foot in America, I thought that, regarding the September 11th attacks, I thought about them and I share the pain and the suffering of all the people who lost their dear ones. I came here to help my son and to see him. So my goal is to see my son. So it was impossible, so I want justice to do its work.
I'll leave my son in the hands of the attorneys who have been designated to do that work. And I want to stay away from making any statements of any kind. I came here to help my son to find justice, and so that he can have a fair trial, and because he told me he didn't do anything, because on September 11th he was in jail.
So in my opinion, my son told me he didn't do anything. And on that basis, until I have proof to the contrary, my son has done nothing. And if he admits to something where he is condemned, I refuse absolutely that my son receive the death penalty. And I refuse to see my son be a scapegoat for things that he didn't do.
If he did something, then that's fine. But if not, I'm sorry, I can't accept that. There you have it. Thank you very much. I thank the American people. I've never received any kind of unkind gesture. I thank the American media. Thank you so much for your kindness.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
EL WAFI (through translator): No, I haven't spoken to my son.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
EL WAFI (through translator): I want to allow my son to answer in all serenity, with -- it's been a long time since we had seen one another. If I had gone to court, I would have been troubled. He would have been so as well.
QUESTION (through translator): When was the last time you spoke to him?
EL WAFI (through translator): I'm sorry. I had received a letter a long time ago. And I'm sorry, I can no longer answer. I have already told you what I think. Thank you in advance. And it's over.
QUESTION (through translator): You haven't spoken with him?
EL WAFI (through translator): I told you, I did not speak with him. I'm allowing justice to do its work.
QUESTION (through translator): Please, I would ask you to please respect -- he said that he did nothing. Did you speak with him?
EL WAFI (through translator): No, he wrote me a letter in October. You know that, right? On that basis, I sent him back three letters. I have had no answer. He has written to me, but I have not received the letters, but I haven't spoken with him. Excuse me?
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
EL WAFI (through translator): I am very happy to have come, because I know how things work here, how justice works. And I saw where my son is. I was close to him, even though I didn't see him. I spoke to the attorneys. That was all very important for me. And thank you very much.
KING: You see there at Dulles Airport outside of Washington, D.C., Aicha El Wafi, the mother of terrorist suspect Zacarias Moussaoui. She is now headed back home to France. In those comments to reporters, saying she did not want her son made a -- quote -- "scapegoat" for the September 11th attacks, also appealing that he not, if convicted, receive the death penalty.
Now to Afghanistan. As we reported, U.S. Marines have completed a sweep of a compound that may have been used by the Taliban leader, Mullah Mohammed Omar. The Pentagon says that among other things, the Marines were looking for evidence that might be used at trial against members of the Taliban and al Qaeda.
Also today, more prisoners arrived at the U.S. base near Kandahar. CNN's Bill Hemmer is there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL HEMMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): The number of detainees in Kandahar officially has now reached 200. Eleven 11 more brought in last night, six by stretcher, after some possibly suffered more combat wounds in northern Afghanistan. Every day, despite a secret operation here at the airport, we learn more details about some of the detainees. And we now know some have attended college or university in the United States. In fact, one was born in the state of Louisiana. We were told that he left at a very young age, possibly for Saudi Arabia, and this is not another John Walker case.
Also, the Marines are putting the pieces together on a puzzle after a 30-hour mission was completed in Helmand province. The target here was a large compound belonging to al Qaeda -- a compound with 14 different buildings and structures. Early on Wednesday morning, in fact, 4:30 a.m. local time, we saw several hundred Marines coming back, describing the mission as successful but, they say, rather uneventful -- no hostile fire, no combat involved.
From here, the Marines will take several computer disks obtained in the compound, and sift and sort for that information.
MAJ. CHRIS HUGHES, U.S. MARINE CORPS: Marines and sailors have combined joint task force 58, conducting a sweeping operation northwest of Kandahar, in a suspected al Qaeda outpost early yesterday morning. The coalition effort coordinated with local anti-Taliban forces was carried out without incident, and yielded several small arms and some documentation. HEMMER: The Marines also insist this may not be their last mission in Afghanistan. In all, since coming here in late November, a dozen operations have been carried out. But this, by far, was the largest to date.
Bill Hemmer, CNN, with the U.S. Marines, Kandahar, Afghanistan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Joining us now for more on the war effort from the Pentagon, CNN's Bob Franken -- Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, one of the things, John, that the Pentagon downplays was the fact that this was an operation designed to search for the Taliban supreme leader, Mullah Omar, saying that that was not the case at all. As a matter of fact, what the Pentagon was doing, according to the people here, what the Marines were doing, was searching for the evidence that Bill Hemmer described in his reports.
As for Omar, the possibility exists, one that the Pentagon is downplaying, that he is with Taliban forces, about 1,500 of them, north of Kandahar, who are the subject now of negotiations that are going on with anti-Taliban forces for surrender. The Pentagon makes it clear that when it comes to Omar, there is no negotiation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VICTORIA CLARKE, PENTAGON SPOKESWOMAN: We expect to have control of him. And to go against a little bit what I was saying earlier, from what we have seen from reports from the interim government, from anti-Taliban forces, they understand and have said, we understand that if we come under control of Omar, he will be turned over to the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANKEN: And just what Victoria Clark, who is Pentagon assistant secretary of defense for public affairs, had said earlier, is that she couldn't really speak to what interim forces normally would say. But in this case, she was making an exception.
Now, the search goes on not only for Omar and of course Osama bin Laden, but so many of the al Qaeda forces who were in disarray after losing battle after battle. But the concern at the Pentagon is that they are regrouping.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STUFFLEBEEM: What we really do believe has occurred is that they have disbanded into smaller groups. It would be I think obvious that some have probably gone over the mountain into Pakistan. But we also believe that there are some of these small groups still within Afghanistan, and may in fact be trying to get back together.
(END VIDEO CLIP) FRANKEN: And present a big danger. It's all complicated, John. According to Pentagon sources, about 3,000 or so of the Pakistani troops who were patrolling the border have been pulled from the border with Afghanistan, sent to the border with Kashmir. Of course, they're engaged in the face-down with India -- John.
KING: Well, Bob, you say the Pentagon playing down the prospect that Omar is near Baghran there. Are they saying he is not there? And if he is, any question there about this strategy of allowing the local anti-Taliban forces to negotiate again? Any worry at all that if he is there he could be sneaking out while these negotiations are going on?
FRANKEN: Well, let's see. Yes, yes and yes. They are playing it down. They don't know for a fact that he's not there. But they say that they have no real evidence that he is. They do worry that the local forces might decide to take it upon themselves to include Omar in the negotiation. But they have made it very clear, repeatedly, that Omar belongs to the United States if he is captured. And no matter what is negotiated on the ground, the United States has tremendous amount of clout, obviously, to impose its will on the anti- Taliban forces.
KING: CNN's Bob Franken, live at the Pentagon. Thank you, Bob.
Senator Chuck Hagel of the foreign relations committee joins me and Major General Don Shepperd in the WAR ROOM at 7:00 Eastern, 4:00 Pacific. You can participate by going to cnn.com/wolf. Click on "send questions" and we'll get as many as possible for our panel of guests.
Defense analyst David Isby joins me at the half-hour to discuss the hunt for Omar and bin Laden, and the reported death of the Taliban intelligence chief. Also ahead, your job -- is it in danger because of the recession? The new year's outlook ahead this hour.
And, snow, where they're not very used to it. The southern snowstorm's nationwide impact, when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: An out-of-the-ordinary snowstorm hit the southern United States today. Snow and ice in Louisiana closed major highways and bridges across the state for several hours. Two inches of snow fell on parts of Alabama today. But it did not appear to cause many traffic problems around the state. And Georgia slid across the first of an expected five inches of snow today. Many students got an extra day off, as some schools canceled classes because of the snow.
Is there more where that came from? Let's turn now to meteorologist to Orelon Sidney, outside -- emphasis on "outside" -- the CNN center in Atlanta -- Orelon.
ORELON SIDNEY, CNN METEOROLOGIST: That's right. Hey, you know what, John? I'm looking for you. You're lucky you're in Washington, you know what I mean? I earlier got teased about my teeny, tiny snowball. Now I have a snowball.
Take a look at what's happening across our area. You can see the snow flurries are still falling across much of Atlanta. Again, we're expecting totals up around four, five, maybe even up to six inches in some isolated locations, as the storm is expected to end on Thursday.
There is a little upper level impulse coming in from the west. It will give us another pulse of heavier snows tonight. And then that's going to continue moving on through. On the radar, you can see that this low pressure system is producing three types of precipitation: rain in the south, and then white is all snow. And that snow is going to move northeastward, through South Carolina, North Carolina, and then off the coast of Cape Hatteras on late Thursday, maybe early Friday. There is also some severe weather in Florida. Same storm system, causing a tornado watch that's probably going to expire shortly.
The latest I've heard out of Atlanta's Hartsfield Airport is that they have a ground stop in progress. That means that flights destined for Atlanta are being held on the ground at their origin. So you want to check ahead if you're planning a trip -- John.
KING: Well, Orelon, as a Boston guy sitting in for a Buffalo guy who could use a little snow, I'm quite jealous. Enjoy it. Don't be upset. Enjoy it.
SIDNEY: Thanks.
KING: Today's winter weather has put a chill on some people's travel plans. Delta Airlines canceled more than 200 flights out of Atlanta, citing a lack of deicing equipment. CNN's Brian Cabell is live at Atlanta's Hartsfield International Airport, to look at how that's been affecting the nation's travel -- Brian.
BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, it's hardly a Buffalo, New York style of snowstorm here at Hartsfield. But it is an Atlanta snowstorm. We checked on the ground a little while ago and we found almost two inches of snow. But look at the roadways here behind me, and it's absolutely clear. There's no problem getting to the airport.
However, once the passengers get inside the airport, some of them will have a surprise. As you indicated, a number of Delta flights canceled -- 208 at last count out of Hartsfield. They expect up to 250 flights, departures out of Hartsfield to be canceled today. AirTran, they say about 15 of their flights out of Hartsfield will be canceled today as well. Both airlines trying to reroute passengers, but it's clear that a number of passengers will be spending an extra night in Atlanta.
On the tarmac is where many of the problems lie. That's where the delays are, because there is simply not enough deicing equipment. It can't work fast enough. So the planes are just sitting there. The runways are salted, they are clear, they are ready to go. But the planes simply are not toward ready to go themselves.
In the meantime, the passengers inside are waiting. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We should have confirmed the flight before we left the house. That was not smart, especially considering the weather. Plus, all of the other things that are going on in this world today. But, you know, I'm just hoping for the best, and hope I get to Richmond today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have to reschedule at 8:00 p.m.
CABELL: So you're going to spend the time here at the airport?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I have relatives and I'm going shopping, and I'll come back.
CABELL: That's not bad. Now, what happens if they cancel the 8:00 flight?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'll just stay the weekend.
CABELL: You seem to be handling it pretty well.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You just chill.
CABELL: Literally.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Literally.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABELL: The snowfall does seem to be letting up ever so slightly right now. We talked to Delta a little while ago. They say they hope by tomorrow morning they will be back to normal. They think the snow will letting up a little bit, so they can get back to a normal schedule. But again, for today, about 250 Delta flights at the nation's busiest airport will be canceled today -- John.
KING: Brian, given all the stress recently about traveling, those folks seem pretty good-natured.
CABELL: They do. We haven't really run into any major problems. Of course, these people, the ones that are delayed so far, have only been delayed for two or three hours. I think if you come back here tomorrow morning, people are sitting around for 12 or 16 hours, the mood may change a little bit.
KING: All right. Brian Cabell outside Hartsfield Airport in Atlanta. Thank you, Brian.
And before you head to the airport or hit the roads, track the latest winter storm or get the forecast for your area, by logging onto cnn.com/weather. The AOL keyword is CNN. In stories on the news wire, early results strongly suggest efforts to kill any remaining anthrax spores in the Hart Senate Office building went well. But the Environmental Protection Agency won't have the final results of its weekend attempt to clean out the building for several more days. The building has been closed since October.
The National Transportation Safety Board will ask the maker of an American Airlines jet if the plane was damaged while it was being built. The airbus crashed in November shortly after takeoff from New York, killing 265 people. A "Washington Post" report says the plane was blown on its tail during construction. An Airbus spokeswoman says there is no record of any such incident.
Investigators are trying to find out why a two-engine planed crashed near the Fort Lauderdale, Florida airport last night. One person died and four others were injured as the plane went down in the water while it was on approach to the Fort Lauderdale Hollywood International Airport.
An update on today's developments in the war terrorism is next -- and the recession's impact on your job. Find out which ones are most at risk. Also, Europe's money problems: the change that has caused a bit of continental chaos -- and a new way to detect those lying eyes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: In a moment, where are the jobs?
First, the latest developments in America's new war: And in this country, the only person charged in regards to September 11 refused to enter a plea today. A federal judge in Virginia entered not-guilty pleas on behalf of Zacarias Moussaoui. The government says Moussaoui engaged in the same preparation as the 19 hijackers and that he shared their goals.
Several hundred Marines returned to base near Kandahar today after flying out on Monday. The Pentagon says the Marines searched a compound that may have been abandoned by Taliban leader Mohammed Omar. Earlier, Pentagon officials had denied the existence of that Marine deployment.
Some of the Taliban fighters believed to be defending Omar are involved in surrender talks. The negotiations are being conducted in the Baghran region, where Omar is reportedly hiding. An Afghan commander involved in the effort says he will not let those negotiations drag out.
A Pentagon spokesman says there is no credible evidence suggesting Osama bin Laden is with Omar. There were reports putting the two men together beginning to circulate earlier this week. The same spokesman said today that scattered members of bin Laden's al Qaeda militia may be regrouping inside Afghanistan.
For his perspective, we turn now to one of our regular guests: defense analyst David Isby, also an expert on Afghanistan. Let's start with the negotiations. Apparently, the United States military not even certain Omar is in the Baghran area. But local officials, anti-Taliban militia is negotiating with the Taliban troops there. From a U.S. military perspective, is that a waste of time? And would you be afraid that, while the talks are going on, as we sit here speaking, Omar is sneaking out the backdoor?
DAVID ISBY, DEFENSE ANALYST: Certainly, that has to be considered. We are not even sure whether he in Baghran. Certainly that is one of the likely places that he may be.
Obviously, we have to watch. He is very much a needle in a very turbulent haystack moving across Afghanistan. So, in Afghanistan, again, quite often, battles are settled by negotiations. People use links, where the comradeship from the Soviet war, shared tribal ethnicity, to resolve battles without fighting. So the American need to get Omar on that is something that has been made very clear to Hamid Karzai and that. Even though he has a great interest in showing his independence from the United States, this is something the United States really has to have.
KING: Now, most of these names, as we get into the mid- and lower-level ranks of the Taliban, if they are killed or captured, most of the names relatively meaningless to the American people or our viewers around the world. One person confirmed killed from the region, and now the Pentagon says it believes it to be the case, the Taliban intelligence chief, Qari Ahmadullah. Who is he and why is he significant?
ISBY: Qari Ahmadullah indeed, who appears to be dead, was indeed a bad actor, a bad character, even by the standards of the Taliban.
Intelligence chief, his duties included torture. He was physically a torturer. He was very much of the faction of the Taliban that was closely aligned with bin Laden and the Arabs. Indeed, according to reports in the Iranian press, he got payments from them. So, in addition, in his way as intelligence chief, he was very much involved in the war in the northeast as well, along with Mullah Fazil, another commander.
And, indeed, it had been thought that he had been captured at Kunduz, because that is where he was at the start of the conflict. But, apparently, he had made his way south. He was one of the original Taliban. He had been minister of the interior. One of his jobs had been gathering up all the Stinger surface-to-air missiles in Afghanistan. He had claimed before the war to have 500, but we have not seen any of these.
KING: What's the significance, looking ahead? If it is true that the Taliban are trying to regroup, those that scattered are trying to regroup, obviously they need leadership. Is it significant that the intelligence chief is now allegedly dead or apparently dead?
ISBY: Certainly, it is going to help. One of things being intelligence chief is, you literally have to know where the bodies were buried, in his case because he put them there himself. You also have to know -- because, as we said, a lot of Afghanistan conflict is resolved by deal-making, you have to know who is weak, who is strong, how to make a deal with someone, who you deal with directly, who you deal with a friend or relative through them, who is bribable, who isn't. That is the sort of thing an international chief has to know.
And this is a man who not only has apparently this knowledge, is loyal to Mullah Omar, but has been linked even to the death of Taliban leaders.
KING: And, quickly, could this be a net loss for the United States from an intelligence standpoint, in the sense that: Is this someone who would have had hard, real-time information about al Qaeda cells outside Afghanistan and around the world? Or were his duties limited to inside the borders?
ISBY: Probably limited to inside Afghanistan, but it probably would have been nice to talk to him anyway.
KING: David Isby, thank you very much once again.
ISBY: Thank you.
KING: Now, Friday morning, the government will release December's unemployment numbers. And many analysts are predicting grim news. But our next guest says there are still jobs to be had in some sectors of the economy.
John Challenger is CEO of a Challenger, Gray & Christmas, an employment consulting firm. He joins us now from Chicago.
John, if you are in this economy right now, where do you want to be and where should you be scared?
JOHN CHALLENGER, CHALLENGER, GRAY & CHRISTMAS: Well, some of strongest areas have been health care, energy, certainly the government, which includes defense and security, new construction, especially in the mortgage banking home real estate market. So there areas of the economy that have been quite strong creating jobs, right on through this year and into next year.
KING: And we're coming out of the Christmas season. There are all the discounts, the cuttings. If you work in the retail industry, especially if you were recently hired in the retail industry, should you be worried now, as the calendar has turned from December to January?
CHALLENGER: Yes, probably so. Retail has had a very rough season. Sales have been lackluster at best. Even more, many retailers turned themselves, from day one, into discounters, which means they just didn't make much in the way of profits. That is going to mean probably heavy store closings as we move into the first quarter of 2002.
KING: The government said today, I believe for the 17th month in a row, manufacturing was down. Is that something you expect to continue? Or is it the flip side? Some argue that manufacturing has been down for quite a while, but all those inventories have been sold on off, so eventually, people are going to have to start getting back to making things again.
CHALLENGER: Exactly. The purchasing managers report came out last week. It was better than expected. It showed some signs of improvement. At some point, we're going to see manufacturing start to turn around. It was the first sector in this economy back in the third quarter of 2000 to really begin to feel the brunt of the recession.
It may be one the first areas to begin to come out of it. And there are some beginning signs that maybe that is starting to happen. We just don't know yet.
KING: And what is your sense from people coming to your firm? Where are the new opportunities in this economy at this moment as the new year begins?
CHALLENGER: Forty-one percent of people right now are changing industries for new jobs. They are moving into those industries that I talked about in the beginning: construction, real estate, health care, defense, security, insurance, mortgage banking. People don't need to stay in their previous industry anymore. They need to stay within their field. Companies want to know what they have done in the last five years. And they can make that portable into new kinds of companies.
KING: And tell us John -- we will see the unemployment report from the government on Friday. What else do you look for? What is just ahead in terms of government data, government statistics, or anything from, say, the Conference Board or others? What statistics, the next two or three key ones, as people try to get a sense to sort through this conflicting information about whether the recovery is about to begin or whether we have a few more quarters of recession ahead?
CHALLENGER: Well, certainly, that unemployment rate is crucial. We'll watch that. Weekly unemployment claims have been dropping lately. That's a sign that perhaps there hasn't been so much pressure, at least as much pressure on the jobs market in recent weeks. Really, the question is going to be: Which sectors are going to lead us out of this slowdown? Is manufacturing -- and tech -- and there's been some promising signs in the semiconductor area -- are those two big sectors going to lead us out of this recession? The government can only carry us for so far.
KING: John Challenger, joining us today from Chicago, thank you very much for your insights on the economy. We will be back with you in the days and months ahead.
CHALLENGER: Thanks, John.
KING: Now, find out why your phone bill is going up and learn about the deal you can get on used cars ahead on "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" at the top of the hour, 6:00 p.m. Eastern. On the "Newswire": The Bloomberg era began in earnest in New York City today, with the new mayor opening the New York Stock Exchange. Incoming Mayor Michael Bloomberg says a looming deficit in the wake of the September 11 attacks could lead to citywide belt- tightening.
In Massachusetts, jury selection began today in the case of a man being tried for a beating death at a youth hockey practice. Prosecutors say Thomas Junta pinned Michael Costin and pounded his head on the floor after the two argued. Sons of both men are expected to testify.
A two-block area of Elwood, Indiana was evacuated today after a house exploded. A buildup of natural gas may be the cause of the blast, which reportedly left several people hurt. The local newspaper says the house belonged to a doctor currently on vacation in Florida with his wife.
Another new president for economically pressed Argentina, and Europe's new money and the confusion it has created -- those stories in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Stories making news on the international front today: Argentina has another new president, its fifth in just two weeks. Senator Eduardo Duhalde was appointed by Congress late yesterday. He is inheriting an economic crisis that forced two of his predecessors to resign last month. Each was briefly replaced by an interim president.
There were smiles and handshakes as the foreign ministers of India and Pakistan met at an economic conference in Nepal today. It was in sharp contrast to the situation along their border. Both nuclear powers have massed thousands of troops there in response to rising tension over the Kashmir region.
And Australia's relentless brushfires are now closing in on Sydney. Dozens of fires have broken out over the last 10 days, many of them arson. Police have arrested 21 people, two-thirds of them minors. The fires are the worst to hit Australia in almost 20 years.
So far so good for the euro. Money matters seem to be going well in the 12 European countries that gave up their own currencies yesterday in favor of the new euro.
CNN's Richard Quest has more from Frankfurt.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT: If Germans had any reservations about their new currency, they seem to be keeping it to themselves. At least where the January sales are concerned, they are out spending the new money as well as the old. A few minor problems hasn't stopped people getting to grips with the euro. (voice-over): Day one had been pronounced a success. But January the 1st was easy. This was the true test. When Europe went back to work, people started spending the new money. And in small stores like this one, at a busy Frankfurt subway, people had to deal with new money, and shop keepers had to make lots of change.
(on camera): And so, this shop did what seemed like good common sense. It has one till for those paying in the old German marks, or the euro, and one for those just paying in euros. And please, don't mix the two up.
(voice-over): The problem was there was still so much of the old money floating about.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): In the first two hours we were open, we only had maybe five customers of around 500 people total, who paid in euro, and many of them came with big D-mark denomination bills. They wanted lots of euro in exchange.
QUEST: It's the small trader that's going to have the real problems. They don't have sophisticated tills. So at the fruit and veg store, a long time was spent working out how much the clementine should cost.
Everybody's worried what the new prices are going to show. Not only will they be rounded up, but also there could be a bout of inflation. At the pastry and pretzel store, there weren't too many problems. They divided the number by half, and got the new euro amount.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a calculator, and so it is very easy. So, we can do the German money inside and calculate euro price.
QUEST: It is the elderly, of course, who are having the most difficulty. Puzzled faces, not sure what to do with the new cash. There are still several weeks when the old stuff can still be used.
(on camera): The busy shops are a testament to the fact that the euro's success won't be judged on whether there are a few first day problems, but on the question of economic growth. Germany has been the leader in Europe for so many years, the largest single economy. If the euro helps take the country out of recession, then it will be very welcome indeed.
Richard Quest, CNN, at the January sales in Germany.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Now, traffic jams were reported in Greece, France and Italy by people fumbling with new money at the toll booths. And conversion problems forced 200 Dutch post offices to shut down. In Milan, fashion designers already have a new line of purses and wallets on the shelves that handle the new money.
Stay with us. When we come back: an update on the case of the member of President Bush's Secret Service detail, an Arab-American, recently removed from an American Airlines flight.
Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: New information now on a story that first was reported last week about an Arab-American member of President Bush's security detail being removed from an American Airlines flight.
CNN's Jeanne Meserve joins me now with the latest -- Jeanne.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The agent, John, was flying from Baltimore Washington International Airport down to Texas, where he was assigned to be part of the detail protecting President Bush. He was taken off an American Airlines flight. He alleges that he was the victim of racial profiling.
The airline has maintained that it did this because of inconsistencies in the paperwork the agent filled out relating to carrying a weapon on the aircraft. A source has now provided me with a copy of two reports. One is the captain's rendition, official rendition of what happened in this incident. This does not tell you why the agent was initially removed from this airline flight, but it does say that, after he was removed from the flight, a flight attendant came to the pilot and said that she was and others were concerned about this individual because he had left carry-on bags on the flight. And he had told the flight attendant, please don't leave without him.
And at that point, they determined that this was a passenger carrying a weapon. They decided to review that paperwork. In this captain's rendition, the paperwork was unreadable because it was a carbon copy and there were missing items. It says: "I then had the agent come back and recheck his credentials and give me a new form."
Again, the form was filled out improperly. Again, it mentions that "this individual became hostile with me. Upon all the information that I had up to this point," this quoting from the captain's report, "I had doubt as to his actual representation as a special agent for the Secret Service, one, improperly filled out forms -- two, the flight attendants bringing to my attention what appeared to be strange behavior; and three, hostility toward me for trying to correct the required paperwork."
The report goes on to say: "I needed to be 100 percent sure of his credentials. I was uncomfortable with his actions and did what a captain should do and edged toward the side of safety and not move the aircraft until I'm confident that all issues are satisfied before taking off. As a note, I am filing a misconduct report with the Secret Service's internal affairs division." We are trying to confirm at this point whether or not that report has now been filed.
In addition, I have been provided a copy of a report filed by the manager of the Systems Operation Center. This is American Airlines' command-and-control center. It is based in Fort Worth, Texas. This individual was brought into the fray over the credentials and the paperwork. It goes through that, in large part corroborating the story that the captain tells.
And then it says: "Based on this, I decided to deny boarding to this passenger, the agent, on future American Airlines flights." At a later point, a boarding agent of BWI, an American Airlines employee, put the Secret Service agent directly in contact with this manager. And, according to this report, the agent admitted to not properly filling out the paperwork for carrying a weapon, not once but twice. He also admitted to losing his temper with the captain, because he was asked for his I.D. five separate times.
"When he asked why he was denied future boarding, I explained that I could not expose American Airlines' crews or passengers to abuse. He said he was being discriminated against, wanted my boss' name, and threatened that he would have my job. He was going to take this to the highest authority." The manager's report then goes on to say that he contacted the Secret Service, talked with an official there. At that point, he was told that the agent was of Middle Eastern descent.
And this quoting again from the manager's report: "I explained to the superior that I did not know this and that there was no discrimination in the denied boarding process. I was 1,000 miles away from the situation and handled it as we would for any unruly passenger. We agreed that the agent would travel the next day," he went on.
He has been protecting President Bush. President Bush has said that he would be mad as heck if it turned out any racial profiling was involved. And today, John, we learned that the agent has retained an attorney. They are considering their options and will decide within the next month whether they are going to file suit.
And, meanwhile, the group who originally brought this all to light, the Council for American-Islamic Relations, issued a press release today, saying that they had received communication from a person who was the seat mate of the agent on this American Airlines flight, that he backed up the agent's rendition of events. It quotes this individual as saying: "The agent was a victim of blatant profiling." Quote: "He was kicked off the plane because of his race," said the passenger."
And it also tells the story of the flight attendant going through the agent's possessions that he left on the plane when he was taking off and finding this material that was apparently written in Arabic. It's described in this as a book on Middle Eastern history.,
KING: Jeanne Meserve, an interesting case. It sounds like one legacy of September 11 that may end up in the courts.
MESERVE: It's true.
KING: Let's go now to New York and get a preview of "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE," which begins at the top of the hour.
Jan Hopkins is filling in for Lou -- Jan.
JAN HOPKINS, "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE": Good evening.
Coming up tonight: CNN military analyst General Wesley Clark joins us. We will get his perspective on the hunt for Mullah Mohammed Omar and the tensions between India and Pakistan. We'll also talk with the CEO of L-3 Communications, the company behind a lot of security devices now being used at the nation's airports. We will tell you why some long-distance phone rates are heading higher -- all of that and more at the top of hour.
Now let's go back to John King in Washington.
KING: Thank you, Jan.
You have heard that looks can be deceiving. When we return: a camera that may be able to see through lies.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: That old saying about the eyes never lying may be true. Researchers at the Mayo Clinic say they have come up with a camera that detects a faint blush around the eyes of people who tell lies. The device spotted the blush in six of eight people who lied in a test. The scientists think it could be developed into a way to spot terrorists at airports.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. JAMES LEVINE, STUDY AUTHOR: This kind of technology really is a screening tool that goes along with many other security tools to identify individuals at risk of committing acts of terrorism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: I will be back in one hour with the "War Room." Senator Chuck Hagel joins me, 7:00 Eastern, 4:00 Pacific.
I'm John King in Washington. CNN's coverage of America's new war continues with "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE," which begins right now.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
