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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Marines Attacked at Kandahar Airport; First Detainees Transported to Cuba

Aired January 10, 2002 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, THE WAR ROOM: Marines under attack at Kandahar airport.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We engaged with both small-arms fire as well as heavy machine guns.

BLITZER: As chained, hooded detainees take off from Afghanistan, destination: prison cages at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.

Special forces help a U.S. ally on another front.

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: The Philippine government and their army has been, I'm sure, engaged in attempting to deal with that terrorist problem that they have.

BLITZER: And a fallen Green Beret is honored by his comrades.

We'll go live to Afghanistan, the Pentagon and Fort Lewis, Washington.

And I'll speak live with CNN security analyst Kelly McCann, a former Marine special operations officer, and CNN military analyst, retired Air Force Major General Don Shepperd, as we go into THE WAR ROOM.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

BLITZER: Good evening. I'm Wolf Blitzer, reporting tonight from Washington. Two major developments today in the U.S. war against terrorism.

U.S. Marines come under hostile fire at the Kandahar base in Afghanistan, and the Pentagon begins moving special operations forces to the Philippines.

That gunfight came as the United States began flying a first group of detainees to a makeshift prison at camp -- at a camp at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. CNN's Bill Hemmer is on the scene in Kandahar, in Afghanistan, and joins us now live with the latest -- Bill. BILL HEMMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, thank you. Good evening and good morning from Kandahar here. A significant security breach about eight hours ago. Let's take it from the top and follow along in chronological order from the airport here in Kandahar.

The first shipment of detainees scheduled to take out of here last night around 9:00 local time. That was noon eastern time back in the States.

The first group of 20, in two groups of ten, led away from the detention facility wearing orange jump suits. We're told recently all men have been shaven head to toe, including their coveted al Qaeda beard taken off their bodies.

Security was tight. The movements were deliberate. Eventually, one by one, all detainees were led inside of the back of a C-17.

As that plane was closing and the C-17 started taxiing toward the runway, we noticed flares being shot up on the far side, the north end of the runway. A short time later, when the C-17 started to get speed down that runway, more flares were seen here from our position in Kandahar.

Immediately, members of the 101st Airborne Division and U.S. Marines took cover, defensive posture here, many scrambling inside the terminal building where we were located at the time. For the next three and a half hours, we observed flares being shot up. Sometimes white, sometimes red, sometimes crisscrossing across the runway. We also heard the exchange of machine gunfire in various parts of this air base here.

We were told later that snipers were spotted in possibly three areas of this air base. Probers, we are told. People penetrating the perimeter have been picked up and perceived by the exterior perimeter here in Kandahar.

Later, we are told, special forces went out to extinguish that threat. The all clear, Wolf, came up about three hours ago. Again, we're back to normal operating procedures. In fact, just about ten minutes ago another new shipment of detainees came in to Kandahar.

We counted approximately a couple dozen. Again, the number here in Kandahar back up around 350 after the first group of 20 left again last night for that 20-hour journey -- minimum -- to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

But certainly, as you can imagine, Wolf, there will be many questions right now about the security around this airport at this time. They thought they had it down and this will make -- throw a crimp in the plans for the time being before the next shipment is sent off to Guantanamo Bay -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Bill, is there any new information about the crash yesterday of that KC-130, that Marine aerial refueling plane that took the lives of seven Marines onboard? HEMMER: At this point, Wolf, we know a team of investigators left from Kandahar early Thursday morning bound for that site in the rugged terrain of southwestern Pakistan. We are also under the impression that search and rescue teams did reach that site on Thursday. But given the tough and steep terrain, they could only stay a short time.

Wolf, we know the cause of the investigation has not been announced. But one Marine said the possibility of enemy fire was, in his words, "extremely unlikely" -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Bill Hemmer reporting live from Kandahar. Thank you very much. And this important note: Bill will have much more at the top of the hour in his special report, "LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN."

And far from Afghanistan, elite U.S. troops are bringing their know-how to the war against terrorism. Let's go live to our military affairs correspondent Jamie McIntyre. He's over at the Pentagon -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, as you know, there's been a lot of discussion about where the next front will open up in America's declared war on global terrorism. And tonight, there are indications that front may be in the Philippines.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

MCINTYRE: 25 U.S. special forces, key players in Afghanistan, are now in the southern Philippines, the Pentagon says, to help the government battle Abu Sayyaf, a group of Muslim rebels linked to Osama bin Laden.

The Pentagon says the U.S. special forces, the vanguard of a larger force to come, are trainers -- but will not say whether they will eventually go after terrorists themselves.

RUMSFELD: I'm not going to talk about the future. I can tell you that we have been involved in training. And to my knowledge, that's what we're currently doing.

MCINTYRE: But military sources tell CNN the mission guidance for the U.S. forces allows for armed U.S. observers to accompany Philippine forces to forward areas if requested: something that could put U.S. military troops in a combat role.

The deployment is small but first step expanding the war against terrorism outside Afghanistan, a goal president Bush repeated as he signed the Pentagon's budget into law.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If the war against terror means that we must find terror wherever it exists and pull it out by its roots and bring people to justice, our military must have the means to achieve the objective.

MCINTYRE: Pentagon sources say the advance team will be followed by more than 100 special forces by next month, along with at least 10 helicopters and some C-130 cargo planes. Logistical support troops could bring the total U.S. presence to 500 troops.

Abu Sayyaf has been holding an American missionary couple hostage since May. Experts say that kidnappings have been a major source of income for the group, which is linked to Osama bin Laden.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're a potential source of funding for al Qaeda because their -- their kidnapping operations have been so successful. They made $20 million, just -- it's been estimated -- last year.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

MCINTYRE: Pentagon officials say the U.S. has offered for its troops to get directly involved in the hunt for terrorists, but that's something that would require authorization from the Philippine congress -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon. Thank you so much for joining us.

And let's move on now to the special forces. They paid tribute to one of their own earlier today. Sergeant First Class Nathan Chapman, the first U.S. soldier killed by hostile fire in Afghanistan, is being memorialized at Fort Lewis in Washington State.

Chapman's family is on hand and his name is added to a memorial inscribed with the names of other fallen special forces soldiers. CNN's James Hattori is live now, joins us from Fort Lewis -- James?

JAMES HATTORI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Wolf. It is indeed a solemn occasion as the First Special Forces Group adds the name sergeant Nathan Ross Chapman -- sergeant first class -- to its memorial honoring men in that unit who have fallen in service to their country.

There were several hundred soldiers and dignitaries in attendance as well as Chapman's parents from Georgetown, Texas, and his wife, Renae, who lives nearby in (UNINTELLIGIBLE) who was presented with three medals awarded posthumously to her husband: a Combat Infantryman's Badge (second award,) a Purple Heart, and a Bronze Star with valor.

Now, Chapman was not only an elite soldier, a Green Beret, son, husband, but also a devoted father who spent every spare moment with two young children: two-year-old Amanda and one-year-old Brandon. And they were not to be left out of the ceremony, being presented with teddy bears by Chapman's comrades.

Now, Chapman was the 28th soldier whose name was added to a memorial stone here at Fort Lewis to honor members of the Green Beret unit who've died in service to our country since the unit's reactivation in 1984.

Chapman was killed last Friday near Khost, Afghanistan, after a meeting with local tribal leaders. A CIA agent was also wounded in that apparent attack. During a symbolic roll call in the ceremony -- toward the end of the ceremony, Sergeant First Class Nathan Chapman's name was called out three times. Each time, of course, it went unanswered. His comrades acknowledging that silence stands in fulfillment of the Green Beret slogan, their mission, "De opresor liber" -- to free the oppressed.

Wolf, funeral arrangements are going to take place tomorrow, as well as a burial at a nearby cemetery -- federal military cemetery. We of course will have full coverage here on CNN -- Wolf.

BLITZER: James Hattori from Fort Lewis. Thank you very much for that. And what's ahead for U.S. military personnel in the region as the United States presence expands in Afghanistan?

General Tommy Franks, the commander of the U.S. Central Command and the man in charge of the entire U.S. war against terrorism in that part of world, finished an exclusive interview just a little while with our own Aaron Brown. And Aaron joins me now live from the CNN Center in Atlanta.

Aaron, it must have be been a pretty remarkable experience having that kind of access to what has been a relatively reclusive General Franks.

AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: It was fascinating, Wolf. You know, everything we've heard about the General, really, since October is that he's uncomfortable with reporters. He's not enamored being the public spokesman for the war itself. As the war has played out, he has come out of that shell a little more.

And the General Franks that we found today at headquarters in Tampa was smart, plainspoken, as we expected. Very comfortable with who he is, and the role he has in running this war.

We talked about a number of things today, as you can imagine. One -- one of the first things we wanted to get him on the record on, was the situation with the detainees and whether the detainees were on the move. And we have a portion of that now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Sir, you can tell me if the detainees, any of them, have started to make their way to Guantanamo?

GENERAL TOMMY FRANKS, CENTRAL COMMANDER: We have started the flow. Yes, Aaron, we have. We started a few hours ago.

BROWN: Can you tell me how many?

FRANK: No, sir, I wouldn't want to say that right you now. What -- what we'll do is we'll begin with smaller numbers and be sure that we have this process working just like we want it to work and then we'll -- then we'll increase the numbers. So we started with a small size.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: We also a talked good deal about the complexities of the war, the risk to Americans who are on the ground now -- General Franks saying this is a much riskier time than any other time in the war. And of course, as you can imagine, we talked about the progress of the war itself and we have a portion of that as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Are we -- in Afghanistan, are we closer to the end of something or the beginning of something?

FRANKS: Aaron, I would say we're in the middle of something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: We will talk on "NEWSNIGHT" tonight at 10:00 eastern. We'll have two large portions, about 15 minutes in total, of our 40- minute conversation. We'll have more again on Friday. But again, a lengthy exchange tonight on "NEWSNIGHT" at 10:00 eastern with General Tommy Franks, the man in charge of America's new war. Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you very much. We'll all be watching tonight. That's once again, 10:00 p.m. eastern, 7:00 p.m. on the West Coast. Aaron brown, good work.

And will the casualties mount in the war against terrorism? Do U.S. special forces face new risks in the Philippines?

Joining me now here in the CNN WAR ROOM, David Christian, a highly-decorated former Green Beret and an adviser to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee; CNN Military Analyst and retired Air Force major General Don Shepperd; and CNN Security Analyst Kelly McCann. He's a former Marine officer who's also taught anti-terror techniques to the U.S. military.

Remember, you can e-mail your WAR ROOM questions to us. Go to my web page: cnn.com/wolf. That's also, of course, where you can read my daily online column.

And let me begin with you, David. This latest incident involving the Marines at Kandahar that came in under hostile fire, it reminds, I guess, all of us that the dangers are still pretty much out there.

DAVID CHRISTIAN, VETERAN: It reminds me I was in a hospital bed in Japan. The guy next to me was a Marine pilot, and he took small arms fire in his aircraft as he was coming in. He ejected, but his copilot was never found. He became an MIA and then a killed in hostile action later, because they never found his body.

But that was with small arms. So we have to remember small arms can take down a plane. And I think both the Marine and the Air Force -- Air Force general can answer this quite adequately also, but I have seen it and I have seen what can happen, the adverse effects of having a young man almost burnt to death laying in a bed next to you. BLITZER: So -- we've got the public watching this. Our viewers, they should be aware that even though the Taliban has been dispersed, al Qaeda is on the run, the dangers are still out there.

MAJOR GENERAL DON SHEPPERD (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE: The dangers are still there, Wolf, no question about it. Afghanistan is going to be a dangerous place for a long period of time. Now, what happened evidently in Kandahar was a very small firefight, perhaps a penetration on the outer perimeter defended by the Afghans. As we bring in heavier forces like the 101st that's supposed to come in there -- 101st Airborne, it's very likely our perimeter will expand.

I remember in Vietnam our bases would come under attack all the time. There'd be nothing for three weeks and then all of a sudden we would get hit four of five night in a row with mortars and with rockets and also with small-arms fire. Not unusual.

BLITZER: And as the 101st -- the troops from the 101st Army Division, they come in to Kandahar, that frees up the Marines to go elsewhere and perhaps continue the search for Osama bin Laden.

CHRISTIAN: Absolutely. They're expeditionary by nature. So, you know, you're looking at 30 to 90 days as the best use of the Marine Corps. Turn it over to a handoff -- what we call a handoff to the 101st. It will be a standing army. They'll push the security buffer back, as the general said, and we return to business. They'll find new -- new game.

BLITZER: I want to put some statistics up on the screen, David, from the Gulf War. A war that all of us, of course, remember. Look at the fatalities -- the combat military fatalities during the Gulf War. You can see them right now. 254 total military fatalities, but in hostile action 148. 106 were either friendly fire or accidents.

People don't realize, necessarily, the dangers not coming from hostile fire.

CHRISTIAN: Well, just by virtue and nature of being in a war zone, you're going to have a friendly fire. It just -- it comes with the turf. That's what the injury that took me out -- I was machined across the chest, I was stabbed in the left arm. I took many severe wounds in hostile.

BLITZER: In which war?

CHRISTIAN: In Vietnam. And then the -- the injury that took me out was napalm, and that was friendly fire. The Vietnamese did not have napalm. So that -- that ended my career.

I was retired as a captain when I was 20 years of age. So it was a fast and furious war. I spent seven almost years in the hospital, went to serve in Bosnia and different conflicts around the world reporting back.

But yes, you are absolutely right. The fatalities that you just indicated up there happen to be very low in terms of killed in hostile action. And the general can reflect back on this.

When we were in Vietnam, they had the phrase "killed in action." We used to report back. We have two KIAS, Viet Cong KIAs, and two friendly. We'd have a friendly KIA. They changed it to killed in hostile action. You had to report back on the phone.

We thought it was a bureaucratic snafu, KIHA. We'd say, "this is crazy. Why are we reporting this back?" But it identifies to everyone up the line there that when you say KIHA, that there's an exchange of gunfire there. When I heard KIHA in reference to that first Green Beret, I knew there was an exchange of gunfire.

BLITZER: You know, the -- some of the militarily commanders -- four-star generals, three-star generals -- they have complained that the American public because it's become so blessed with so few casualties, whether the Gulf War, in the Balkans, in Kosovo, elsewhere, in Haiti that the commanders can't really order the troops to do what they would like to do out of fear of having casualties.

SHEPPERD: Anybody who thinks that way is absolutely wrong. The American people are not casualty averse. They want to make sure that what we're fighting for is worth the sacrifice of their sons and daughters.

The really good news in these numbers is we have spent billions of dollars to give our American soldiers, sailors and airmen advantage over any potential enemy. We've got night vision that can enable us to fly around the clock like nobody can. We've got standoff precision weapons that make sure that we kill other people, not our -- our kids.

And -- and that is, in my opinion, really good news. Thus the percentage of friendly casualties goes up because the overall casualties from our side goes down. It's really a good-news picture.

BLITZER: All right. Stand by. We've got a lot more to talk about. We're just beginning. When come back, more trouble. What does the United States have to gain by holding so many detainees? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to the CNN WAR ROOM. Kelly McCann, I want to go right to this e-mail question from Vince in New Brunswick, Canada. "Why wasn't more use made of helicopter gunships to hunt down fleeing enemy forces? It would appear to be, to an outside observer, that the U.S. is so averse to suffering military casualties that it may be interfering with their ability to get the job done thoroughly and quickly."

Not the message we want to be sending to the enemy.

KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Not at all. I mean, as the general said before, any time you use air assets, it's in a layered approach. So it's not something that you shoot from the hip unless you have protection for them. You wouldn't waste assets. It goes back to what the general's comments were earlier. So unless you have protection overall, on three levels, you're not going to commit an air asset for a fleeing adversary that is really, when you look at what you're going to gain from killing another five individuals, but you could suck a helicopter in and drop the whole crew and machine to anti air, it don't make sense.

So it's commander intent. What is the intent? What am I trying to do, and how do I do it safely?

BLITZER: Is this a well-thought-out decision to move those detainees, the prisoners from Afghanistan to the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba?

MCCANN: I think it's a great move, Wolf, but I think they should have added the -- the three they let go the other day. I mean, that upset me that they -- they took it upon themselves...

BLITZER: You mean the tribal -- the tribal leaders let go.

MCCANN: The three -- tribal leaders let three former Taliban -- which President Bush said if you are Taliban and you happen to be against the United States, you're our enemy.

BLITZER: But that's the way -- that's the custom in that part of the world.

MCCANN: That's their philosophy, but it's also our Achilles in the war. Our allies over there are our Achilles heel, because they keep swapping favors. I have to say -- and it's my opinion -- that when Osama bin Laden got to the Pakistan border, or Mullah Mohammed Omar got to the Pakistan border, maybe they traded a favor and maybe they're in Pakistan. And that's -- that's something we have to worry about that our leaders are addressing right now.

BLITZER: But you have to play with the deck -- the hand you were dealt with. And those are the allies right now.

SHEPPERD: You've got to play the hand you're dealt with, and also remember our major concern -- of course we want the high-level Taliban leadership, because we want the Taliban government gone. And if the Taliban government is essentially gone, the people may still be there. Some of them may escape. But we are really interested in the al Qaeda worldwide. That is our major interest, and the Taliban will lead us to them. So although seven or three people escape and more -- more people will escape, our big chase is after this al Qaeda group out there.

BLITZER: You know, the -- I want to put a map up on the screen showing the ethnic breakdown, to remind our viewers what the U.S. special operations forces, the other U.S. forces on the ground in Afghanistan have right now.

Look at this various -- the map of here showing all the different areas from the Pashtun up to the Uzbek and the Tajik. This is country where the U.S. special forces have to navigate a bunch of tribal warlords, all of whom may have different agendas. SHEPPERD: There's absolutely no question about that. We've said all along, truthfully, that once the real shooting war, the conflict is over, some real different problems begin. And what that is, is the warlordism. In other words, those men that are warlords are not going to want to give up power to an objective that we think is important when what their objective is is to remain in power. So you've got a cultural clash coming and that's going to be a job for the peacekeepers.

BLITZER: OK. Kelly McCann, David Christian, General Shepperd. Thanks for joining us in the CNN WAR ROOM.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

BLITZER: Appreciate it. Just ahead, new questions about the Bush administration and the investigation of Enron's collapse as we check the latest developments. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. The energy giant Enron has some connections to the Bush administration. Attorney General John Ashcroft and his chief of staff are recusing themselves from the federal investigation into Enron's problems.

Enron's chairman gave a campaign contribution to a political action committee created by Ashcroft, and the White House says Enron's chairman called both the treasury and commerce secretaries last fall to discuss the company's problems.

And that's all the time we have tonight. Please join me again twice tomorrow at both 5:00 and 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "CROSSFIRE" begins right now.

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