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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Musharraf Thinks bin Laden May Be Dead; How Are Airports Coping With New Safety Measures?; Volcano Eruption Displaces Hundreds of Thousands
Aired January 18, 2002 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Now on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: Where is Osama bin Laden?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. PERVEZ MUSHARRAF, PAKISTANI PRESIDENT: There are four possibilities. One is that he is dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Pakistan's president thinks he knows. We'll have an exclusive interview with Pervez Musharraf.
Checking all checked baggage...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My safety is worth my time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: How are airports and passengers coping with the new security measures?
A day in court for terror suspects. Past...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am truly sorry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: And present...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For the passengers and crew aboard flight 63. If it weren't for them, this most definitely would have been a disaster.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: And a river of fire in Africa. Hundreds of thousands flee for their lives.
Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. No international leader knows more about the inner workings of Osama bin Laden and his top lieutenants than Pakistan's President General Pervez Musharraf. For years, his military intelligence service was the Taliban's major backer. Today, President Musharraf said he believes Osama bin Laden is dead.
In an exclusive interview with CNN, Mr. Musharraf said bin Laden probably died from kidney failure. A White House spokesman says the United States has no evidence bin Laden has died of kidney problems. We'll hear directly from the president of Pakistan in just a moment. But first, a quick check of this hour's latest developments.
Administration officials say Vice President Dick Cheney did nothing wrong in talking about a huge debt owed to Enron. Cheney asked an Indian opposition leader about the $64 million debt last June, several months before Enron declared bankruptcy. The debt stems from a major energy project in India.
A Palestinian demonstrator was killed and more than 30 injured in clashes with Israeli troops in the West Bank town of Ramallah. Earlier, Israeli fighter jets fired missiles into a compound of the Palestinian governor of Tulkarem, killing a Palestinian policeman and wounding 50 other people. The violence comes one day after a Palestinian gunman killed six Israelis at a coming-of-age party.
The Bush administration says it is unaware of any plans by Saudi Arabia to end the United States' military presence in the country. "The Washington Post" reports the Saudis may soon ask the United States to withdraw its forces. A Saudi air base has served as a key command and control center during the Afghan war.
Richard Reid, the so-called shoe bomber, pleaded not guilty to charges that he tried to blow up a Paris-to-Miami jetliner with explosives hidden in his sneakers. Prosecutors say Reid was trained at an al Qaeda camp in Afghanistan. Reid faces up to five life sentences if convicted.
Now back to our top story, the hunt for the most wanted man in the world, and a new theory on what may have happened to him. It comes from Pakistan's president, whose government, until a few months ago, strongly backed the Taliban, who gave bin Laden sanctuary in neighboring Afghanistan. But that was before Pakistan sided with the United States in the war on terrorism and the Taliban were ousted from power.
In an exclusive interview with CNN's Tom Mintier in Islamabad, Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf says a number of things could have happened to bin Laden, but he's inclined to favor one in particular.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MUSHARRAF: There are four possibilities. One is that he's dead. The other is that he's alive in Afghanistan in the mountain areas, because it's almost -- again, monumental task to have scanned the whole mountainous region, or to have bombed every part of that area. And so there's a possibility that he's still there in some cave in those mountains. The third is that he's left Afghanistan, and he's either in Pakistan or somewhere else in some other country.
I give the highest priority now, to be frank, that he's dead, for the reason that he's a patient -- he's a kidney patient. And I know that he had -- we know that he had donated two dialysis machines into Afghanistan. One was specifically for own personal use, and other for general use. Now, I really don't know if he's been getting all that treatment in Afghanistan now. So -- and the photographs that lately have been shown on the television show him extremely weak. And I personally feel -- I would give the first priority that he's dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: President Pervez Musharraf. And if you want to see more of the interview with the Pakistani leader, just go to our Web site, cnn.com/wolf. The AOL keyword is CNN.
For the U.S. military, the mission in Afghanistan continues to evolve from one of attack to surveillance and intelligence. Our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr has been following all these late developments. She joins us now live. What is the latest, in terms of war, Barbara?
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, hi, Wolf. Yes, at a news conference which concluded just about an hour ago, General Tommy Franks, the head of Central Command, who is overseeing the entire war, says he has no direct intelligence to support anything that General Perez Musharraf is talking about.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GENERAL TOMMY FRANKS, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: We do not know the location of bin Laden. Bin Laden could be -- you know, we're in a speculative sort of world -- bin Laden could be alive or dead or in Afghanistan or not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: General Franks made it clear that U.S. forces are now searching caves, tunnels, complexes, villages, all over southeastern Afghanistan for evidence of Taliban or al Qaeda activity. And they're finding large stores of weapons, tanks, armored personnel carriers, ammunition, rocket-propelled grenades -- all sorts of things. And they're beginning to destroy some of that as they look through more and more of these sites.
But what they're also finding is large stores of documents, intelligence documents, indicating al Qaeda activity. And those documents are now a top priority. In fact, the United States has moved in intelligence analysts into Afghanistan to search these documents, scan them right on site, and see if there's anything in them that poses an immediate terrorist threat, or indication of another possible terrorist attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRANKS: There is a distinct possibility that terrorist acts can be committed today, tomorrow, in a great number of places around the world. Perhaps as many as 60-plus countries, where we see terrorist organizations, cells, operating with great reach.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: Well, Wolf, the U.S. is operating on the assumption today that Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar, the leader of the Taliban, are both very much alive. In fact, the U.S. is now dropping a new leaflet over Afghanistan that shows Mullah Omar as a dog on a leash being led around by Osama bin Laden -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Barbara, I'd like to take a look at that leaflet. Once you get a copy of it give it to us and we'll put it on the screen. Let me ask you another question about Saudi Arabia. A bomb shell story, a banner headline in this morning's "Washington Post" that the Saudis may -- may ask the United States to withdraw its military presence from Saudi Arabia, which would have enormous ramifications. What's going on?
STARR: Well, this is a very sensitive issue. General Franks, of course, said the Saudi-U.S. relationship is very close and there is no problem. But of course, there is. The Saudis are very sensitive about the U.S. military presence inside the Kingdom. And in fact, Pentagon and military officials, many military officials, tell us they want to deliver a very specific message to the Saudis. And that is, there is a terrorist threat inside Saudi Arabia.
There are many Saudis, a growing number, perhaps, that support Osama bin Laden that want to see the U.S. out of the Kingdom. The U.S. wants the Saudi government to be aware of this threat, and says the solution is to deal with that threat, not necessarily to throw out the U.S. military -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, thank you very much. And for additional perspective now on how America's new war is proceeding and the ongoing hunt for terrorist leaders, we turn to our own military analyst, the retired General Wesley Clark, the former NATO supreme allied commander. I want to talk about both of these issues.
Let's begin with the hunt for Osama bin Laden. What's going on in that front, as far as you can tell?
GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET), FMR. NATO SUPREME COMMANDER: Well, as far as I can tell, he's still alive. And I think the real indicator is, we've heard nothing about his family. Now, if he were dead, unless the whole family dropped off the face of the earth, someone, somewhere would know something. So my guess is he's alive, he's out of the country, his family is out of the country, they're in hiding somewhere and trying to remain anonymous and low key.
BLITZER: And General Pervez Musharraf, the Pakistani president, when he speculates openly, as he did with our own Tom Mintier earlier today, that he might be dead from kidney failures, he obviously knows a lot about the inner workings of the al Qaeda and the Taliban.
CLARK: Well, if Osama bin Laden did have kidney problems and did need dialysis treatment, maybe he's getting it somewhere else.
BLITZER: All right. Let's talk about the situation involving U.S. military presence in Saudi Arabia which, since before the Gulf War, has been a strategic lynch pin in the whole Persian Gulf region. If the Saudis go forward and say to the United States, please leave, what would that mean?
CLARK: Well, militarily, it would be inconvenient. We can't do everything we're doing today without making other adjustments in forced dispositions to other bases, bringing aircraft carriers forward, maybe using Turkey, or other places in the Gulf states. But we could do it. The big problem is diplomatic, Wolf.
BLITZER: I want to put up on the screen some of the other bases that might be available, because the United States does have a major presence. And let's put it up, if we have that map. Maybe we do, maybe we don't. We don't have it. But the Prince Sultan air base is a major command and control facility in that part of the world.
CLARK: It is, but the major problem is diplomatic. We knew all along that we needed Saudi support. They're the lynch pin in this. They're the real target of Osama bin Laden. They've got to deal with their own fundamentalist challenge. And they've got to help us by giving us the information, cutting off the finances and really taking control of Islam. And we've got to work together to do that.
If we have to make some kind of redeployment of our forces to help them do that, that's fine. But if this signals their disaffection with us, and a disinclination to work to our mutual interests, then it's a problem.
BLITZER: And there's been some problems, some inconveniences, over the past decades. The fact that U.S. military personnel who are women, when they go off base, they have to wear the veil, they have to be accompanied by a male. They can't drive a car by themselves, which may or may not be a huge problem. But for those women who are there, it could be a problem.
CLARK: I think it's a problem for all of us. We don't like it. I was over there just before the Gulf War. I looked around -- it was the Christmas season, you know. And there was a lot of pressure not to recognize it as the Christmas season on our troops, who wanted the freedom to practice their own religion. It made you ask, well, what are we here for and kind of a country is there where we're fighting for their freedom but we can't have our freedom while we're fighting for theirs? And so, there have always been those issues in this relationship.
BLITZER: And finally, general, one of the ironies -- one of the first, the first demand that Osama bin Laden made way back, was to get the infidels out of Saudi Arabia, the site of the holy Muslim places. Get the United States military out of Saudi Arabia. Now that he's on the run, the Taliban dispersed, wouldn't it be ironic if the Saudis did in fact accept what he had been demanding from day one?
CLARK: It's the worst possible strategy dealing with a terrorist. You cannot do appeasement, and this would be appeasement.
BLITZER: General Clark, thanks for joining us.
And we'll have more about the U.S.-Saudi relationship at the half-hour, when I will talk to the former United States ambassador to Saudi Arabia, Wyche Fowler.
And Attorney General John Ashcroft joins me Sunday to discuss terrorist threats still out there, and prosecuting those already in custody. That's on "LATE EDITION," Sunday, at noon Eastern, 9:00 a.m. Pacific.
Turning now to homeland security here in the United States. It's been a day of reckoning at major airports around the country. Amid fears of huge lines and long delays, airlines began new baggage screening procedures this morning. It's all aimed at making air travel safer and preventing incidents like the one allegedly carried out by the shoe bomber suspect, Richard Reid.
Joining us now for an update on conditions at this hour is our own Jeff Flock. He's at the airport in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Jeff, how are things out there?
JEFF FLOCK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, not so bad out here. I want to give you one quick snapshot this hour. This is Milwaukee's Mitchell International. This is flight 107, one flight. Midwest Express Airlines 107 to Atlanta. They are just now in the final boarding process, and this is the point at which this bag match is taking place. We have another camera out that sees that aircraft that's just about to take off to Atlanta.
They have just pulled the equipment away to put the bags on. This is the point at which if they don't get a positive bag match -- that is, if there are bags on that aircraft and there's not a person that belongs to them, they have to go back into the belly of the aircraft and take those bags off. So far that hasn't been a problem today.
I want to show you what these travelers onboard this plane are now going to be facing once they get to Atlanta. We have pictures from Atlanta's Hartsfield, of course, one of the two busiest airports in the world. And Hartsfield today was full of people. In fact, they report that there were a number of people who came to the airport extra early, and they think that that even actually contributed to gumming up the works a little bit, because there were people there too early and too many people at the airport.
But all in all, it's been a good day. I'm joined by Lisa Bailey of Midwest Express Airlines. She's got a smile on her face, which is a good sign, because this has been a good day, there haven't been any problems.
LISA BAILEY, MIDWEST EXPRESS AIRLINES: Great day, smooth as silk. We're really happy.
FLOCK: OK, and I want to give our viewers an indication of that. Rick, if you go up above Lisa's head, this is the Midwest Express arrival and departure board. I see only one delayed flight out there. How is it that it's gone so well? Did you really have this kicked in early? Were you practicing on this? Why?
BAILEY: We did kick it in a little early. We actually started Wednesday night, rolled it out a little bit Thursday, and then system- wide again today. So we were pretty comfortable with it yesterday.
FLOCK: Obviously, you can't shed any great light about how this is all working. Obviously, we're going to report that it's majority bag matching. And we don't see those situations out there. We're still looking at that aircraft out there bound for Atlanta, where somebody has to pull bags off. That would gum up the works if you had to do that, wouldn't it?
BAILEY: We've had a few of those situations today where we've had passengers not traveling. We've had to pull bags. Frankly, we think we have the process down. And certainly, a large contingent of people who wouldn't get on an aircraft may cause a slight delay, but not too much.
FLOCK: OK, so all you need is a big snow storm and everything would be perfect.
(LAUGHTER)
BAILEY: Exactly.
FLOCK: Lisa Bailey, we appreciate it.
Again, Wolf, a good day, not only here in Milwaukee, but system- wide. People seem to have been practicing, been kicking these regulations into effect, even before they went into effect. So all in all, a good day for the nation's traveling public. Back to you.
BLITZER: Jeff Flock, our Chicago bureau chief, heading north to Milwaukee. Thanks for that good report.
And joining us now for additional insight into the new airport security measures that went into effect today, Todd Curtis of Airsafe.com. Mr. Curtis, thanks so much for joining us. What are you hearing from around the country? Relatively smooth, these new procedures?
TODD CURTIS, AIRSAFE.COM: Quite similar to what she just reported. Relatively smooth, a few delays reported, but by no means, nothing serious.
BLITZER: How do you explain the fact, because earlier in the week we were hearing -- Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison told me this could be a horrendous day. We could have huge lines, a lot of back- ups. This whole process of matching checked bags with passengers. CURTIS: Well, there was a lot of preparation by both passengers and the airlines. The matching of the checked bags, certainly, that will cause some delays. But it is only for the originating flights.
BLITZER: And so the bottom line is, the airports have their act together and this is not going to be a problem in the immediate period ahead?
CURTIS: So far, the airlines, the airport authorities and the passengers seem to be cooperating. Of course, a lot of passengers are carrying fewer bags as well.
BLITZER: So what's your sense about the additional security that these latest measures that went into effect today, screening all checked baggage -- the impact it's going to have on security, as far as flying?
CURTIS: Clearly, it will enhance security, because before today it wasn't required to screen all those bags. Granted, some of them are bag matched, some of them will have the explosive detection systems. But by the end of the year it will be even stronger than it is today.
BLITZER: How concerned are you on connecting flights, the checked baggage will not necessarily be matched to passengers to make sure they got on those connecting flights?
CURTIS: I'm not that concerned because that issue existed even before today. Nothing stops someone from leaving a connecting flight and leaving their bag behind. Only now, there are more ways to find that bag before it gets onboard the aircraft.
BLITZER: And while we're talking, Mr. Curtis, I want to report to our viewers we do have some breaking news, a decision. The Zacarias Moussaoui trial in northern Virginia will not be allowed to be televised. The federal trial will go forward behind closed doors. There will be reporters present. But once again, no televised trial.
This is not a huge surprise. Federal procedures in general, federal trials are not normally allowed to be televised. But once again, there will be no television, no live cameras inside that courtroom of Zacarias Moussaoui. He's accused, of course, of participating conspirator in the September 11th terrorist attacks. Some have called him the 20th hijacker.
Back to you now, Todd Curtis. Looking down the road, what do you think needs to be done in the immediate period to make sure that air travelers are safe?
CURTIS: One of the things that should be done very quickly, and fortunately it is in the Aviation Transportation Safety Bill, is to put together a set of criteria of excellence, a criteria of success and effectiveness of these measures, and report on these regularly to the public, so we can be assured that the money being spent is being spent wisely.
BLITZER: Do you believe that the American flying public is safer today than it was on September 10th?
CURTIS: Absolutely. Not just because of the procedures and the technology, but also the attitudes of the aviation community, and especially the passengers. I think the future will see a coming together of people onboard the aircraft, flight attendants, pilots and passengers, to quell any sort of violence that erupts in the cabin.
BLITZER: And you think those 28,000 screeners, the people who check us as we go through the metal detectors at airports, the new system they are about to put in place is going to make a major difference?
CURTIS: It will, because there will be several different kinds of technologies implemented. Not just at the screening point, but even before the passengers get into that secure area. Taken together, these layers of security will make it that much more difficult for anyone to deliberately sneak something through.
BLITZER: What about the concern that some have raised that someone bent on suicide, a suicide passenger, doesn't care if his bag is checked in, has a bomb on it? He's going to be matched up with that bag. He's more than happy to die. And the bag will not have gone through that million-dollar X-Ray machine that could detect a bomb?
CURTIS: That's a very valid point, but one has to keep in mind that there are other systems in place. For example, right now, passengers who use electronic reservation systems, there's a certain screening process that goes through, that if they have certain criteria, they're going to be taken aside and checked very, very thoroughly. There are other things that are in place and will be put in place -- not all of them very obvious -- that will try and detect that suicide person before they get on board.
BLITZER: OK, Todd Curtis, Airsafe.com. Thanks once again for joining us.
CURTIS: Thank you for having me.
BLITZER: And we'll have more on this subject later tonight, a special report: "How Safe Are Your Skies?" The former transportation secretary, Rodney Slater, will be among my guests as we examine the impact of today's new aviation security rules. That's at 7:00 Eastern, 4:00 Pacific.
And what did Dick Cheney do for Enron? We'll check in with the White House when we come back. Also, the inside view of the latest attack on Israelis. And the retaliation against Palestinians.
Defending a '70s radical-turned-soccer-mom. Were Sara Jane Olsen and her SLA partners terrorists of the '70s?
And later, an African eruption.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Welcome back. A strong response from the White House today. The Vice President Dick Cheney did nothing improper in talking about a huge debt owed to Enron by India. Cheney raised the issue with an Indian opposition leader just last June, several months before Enron declared bankruptcy. Covering all of this and other related developments, our White House correspondent, Kelly Wallace. Kelly, what's going on?
KELLY WALLACE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, as you know, this latest development comes as Democratic lawmakers are continuing to question the administration's ties with Enron, and whether the now-bankrupt company had undue influence with this White House. But this administration said two things today. No. 1, that no one at Enron asked the vice president to bring up this issue during his June meeting with India's opposition leader, Sonia Ghandi. The issue is a power plant, known as the Dabhol plant, and also the fact that Enron was owed $64 million as part of its project.
Well, aides today say the vice president brought this up because, No. 1, overseas investments benefit American companies and thereby benefit American workers. But also, because taxpayer dollars were at stake. The overseas private investment corporation, also know as OPIC, has more than $300 million invested in this in the form of risk insurance and financing. In the words of the president's top adviser, she said Mr. Cheney was simply doing his job.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARY MATALIN, ASST. TO PRESIDENT BUSH: He said, what is the status of the Dabhol project, and he was answered and they moved on. That is his job. He was asked to do that by no one other than our interagency process. But that is the job of this government, any government, any administration, to protect American investment abroad. And in this case, this is an American-insured investment, so the taxpayers would have to pick up the change here if it goes under.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: And we also learned, according to e-mails obtained by CNN between OPIC officials, that OPIC was hoping President Bush would raise the matter during his November meeting with the Indian prime minister, but Mr. Bush did not raise the issue. You can see according to the e-mail -- well, before that it was confirmed that President Bush cannot talk about Dabhol. And then here, this is regarding Lawrence Lindsey, the president's chief economic adviser. It says -- quote -- "was advised that he could not discuss Dabhol."
Now, Lawrence Lindsey served as a consultant to Enron before joining the Bush administration. And Ari Fleischer, the president's spokesman, told reporters today that administration lawyers did advise Mr. Lindsey that he should not discuss this matter with Indian government officials.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: In the case of Mr. Lindsey, the council's office did recommend that he have no direct involvement in Dabhol plant as a result of his previous holdings with Enron. So that was specific to Enron, specific related to the case of Mr. Lindsey. With the president, it was a matter of not rising up to his level.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Now, again, White House officials say government officials acted as government officials should have acted. They say commerce secretaries during the Clinton administration also discussed this issue with Indian government leaders. But again, while some Democratic lawmakers want some more information from this administration about all contacts between Enron executives and the Bush advisers. Back to you.
BLITZER: I have a feeling, Kelly, the story is just beginning. Thanks for that report.
Let's check now some other stories on today's news wire. A high- speed chase involving a bank robbery suspect, a female hostage and police from Missouri and Illinois ended with a crash. No one was hurt in the almost hour-long ordeal. St. Louis police say the suspect eventually freed his hostage, a bank customer, then surrendered.
Authorities in Davie, Florida, say a male student shot and killed a female student, then killed himself at Broward Community College today. The two reportedly had been involved in a relationship. Dozens of students witnessed the shootings on Broward's main campus, just west of Fort Lauderdale.
Members of the Minnesota National Guard are going to Minot, North Dakota, to help clean up a deadly chemical leak. This morning, a Canadian Pacific train pulling tankers filled with ammonia jumped the tracks. One man is dead. Dozens of others are being treated for breathing problems.
In Cambridge, Massachusetts, defrocked Roman Catholic Priest John Geoghan stands convicted of molesting a boy in a swimming pool 10 years ago. His lawyer promises an appeal. The 66-year-old former cleric still faces two more criminal trials and dozens of civil lawsuits accusing him of sexually abusing children.
The hour's latest developments are next, and is there any more use to having U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia? We'll find out from the former United States ambassador.
Also, Israel's retaliation for this attack on a bat mitzvah. And later, finding a home for New York's missing posters. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
For more than a decade, United States forces have been deployed inside Saudi Arabia. But that relationship may -- may -- be ending. In a moment, we will take a closer look at U.S. relations with Saudi Arabia, but first, a quick look at today's late developments.
In an exclusive interview with CNN, Pakistan's president says he believes Osama bin Laden is probably dead, a victim of kidney disease. President Pervez Musharraf says bin Laden has a serious kidney condition that requires dialysis treatments, and the war must be keeping him from getting those treatments.
British authorities arrested four more people today as part of their antiterrorism investigation. Police say the two men and two women in Leicester were violating immigration laws. Since yesterday, British authorities have arrested a total of 17 people.
Ever since the Persian Gulf War, United States military forces have operated at key bases in Saudi Arabia. That may be about to end. According to "The Washington Post," senior Saudi rulers think the United States has worn out its welcome and may call for the withdrawal of all American forces. The White House says it is not aware of any Saudi discontent.
Joining us now with his assessment on all of this: the former American ambassador to Saudi Arabia, Wyche Fowler.
Mr. Ambassador, thanks so much joining us.
You woke up this morning, saw that story in "The Washington Post." What immediately went through your mind? You were just there.
WYCHE FOWLER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO SAUDI ARABIA: I think it was probably -- it may have been a shot across our bow by some officials in the Saudi government.
I don't think, as Secretary of State Powell said today, there's been no discussion with the Bush administration. And to my mind and to my knowledge, there's no discontent with our forces there. They continue to be welcomed. The Saudis pay for our presence there. It's not an American base. Many people are confused about this. This is a Saudi air base. We are there at the invitation of the Saudi government.
And though there are tensions in the air and a lot of criticism about Saudi Arabia, much of it unjustified, I do not believe that it will result in the withdrawal of our any of troops there.
BLITZER: Well, those Saudi officials who may be upset at the United States, a shot across America's bow, what are they angry about?
FOWLER: Well, they're angry -- all the Saudi government and many, many Saudis are angry about the criticism in the United States that they are being not sufficiently helpful in the war against terrorism.
I mean, we all know now that this war has been directed against Afghanistan by U.S. forces from that command-and-control center at Prince Sultan Air Base. The Saudis have been fighting terrorism with us since 1996, when our 19 servicemen were lost. But there were also many Saudis killed during that time. And it was that time that we pledged to work together to get to the root of this. September 11 -- '96 was their September 11. They couldn't believe they had terrorist cells in their country. They turned out to be Saudis. They turned out to be Muslims. So this criticism that Saudi Arabia has not been cooperating in trying to catch al Qaeda and root out terrorism is simply inaccurate. And the Saudi government is tired of hearing so many people on American television criticizing of the Saudi government.
BLITZER: You also hear the criticism not only on American television, but from members of Congress, who say this may not be a good fit given the religious practices, the beliefs in Saudi Arabia. American military personnel who were women have a difficult time in Saudi Arabia when they go off base. U.S. diplomats at your embassy, at the U.S. Embassy in Saudi Arabia, when they go off the compound, they have to do certain things.
Clarify precisely what they can or cannot do. Can American women serving in Saudi Arabia, for example, drive cars?
FOWLER: They can. Saudi women cannot drive. And, therefore, we encourage our people to be discrete, to do most of the driving in the desert and do not flout against the culture. But there is no prohibition against an American woman driving a car.
BLITZER: What about -- what kind of outfits must they wear when they go off base or off the U.S. Embassy compound?
FOWLER: They wear what my mother and sister always wore on Wednesday and Friday night. They wear what amounts to a choir robe. It's called an abaya. It is a black cloak so as not to expose the form of the female body. Again, that is offensive to Islam. But they do not have to -- Americans do not have to cover their head. They do not wear veils. The Saudi women do, but Americans don't, and neither armed forces people or our diplomats.
BLITZER: OK, clarifying the situation in Saudi Arabia, the immediate past U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia, now with the Middle East Institute here in Washington, former senator from Georgia, Wyche Fowler. Thanks so much.
FOWLER: Thank you much. Glad to be with you.
BLITZER: Thank you.
And more on the crisis in the Middle East now: Israeli tanks rolled within yards of Yasser Arafat's headquarters in Ramallah. And Israeli warplanes fired missiles at a Palestinian building in Tulkarem after a Palestinian man opened fired at an Israeli girl's bar mitzvah yesterday in Hadera in Israel.
CNN's Jerusalem bureau chief Mike Hanna has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIKE HANNA, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): The funeral of 25-year-old Abi Azdi. He, along with five other Israelis, ranging in age from 25 to 63, were attending a coming of age celebration. A bat mitzvah for 12-year-old girl in the Israeli city of Hadera. The party ended by a Palestinian gunman, who opened fire at random before being shot dead by a police officer and a civil guard volunteer.
The gunman, identified as Abed Salum (ph) Hassouna, left behind a videotape in which announced his intentions. He was a member of the Al Aqsa Brigades, a militant off-shoot of Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement, which claimed responsibility for the terror. The Palestinian Authority's condemnation of the action was brushed aside by Israel.
And in the West Bank city of Ramallah, Israeli tanks encircled the offices of Yasser Arafat, who the Israeli government says is ultimately to blame for the killings, because he has failed to crack down hard enough on radical Palestinian groups.
AVU PAZNET, ISRAELI GOVERNMENT SPOKESMAN: There was no dismantling of terrorist organizations. There was no arrest of terrorist, and the Palestinian Authority, like in the past, bears the full responsibility of the consequences of this act.
HANNA: The West Bank city of Tulkarem came under Israeli bombardment. The offices of the region's Palestinian governor destroyed, at least one Palestinian police officer killed.
The city, says Israel, a prominent base what it calls terrorist activity. But actions such as this, say Palestinian leaders, part of what they call "Israeli aggression" that they say provokes and encourages attacks by militants.
NABIL ABU RUDEINAH, ARAFAT SPOKESMAN: This Israeli military escalation is endangering all the efforts to save the peace process. The policy of assassinations, the policy of sieging the Palestinian people. The incursions towards the Palestinian headquarters. Is a great and grave circumstances. And we consider this a real escalation.
HANNA: Palestinians confront Israeli forces near Arafat's offices in Ramallah. And no doubt, the Palestinian leader would be able to hear, if not see, the ongoing violence.
(on camera): You may have heard, too, the condemnation from the U.S. and the European Union of what is characterized a terrorist attack in Hadera and a pointed demand that even though he may be under virtual house arrest, Arafat himself must take immediate steps to stop such attacks.
Mike Hanna, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Nearly three decades later, one terrorist from the 1970s faces her day of reckoning. Sara Jane Olson is sentenced for one long-ago crime and arraigned in connection with another. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
Tearful testimonials and angry words: That's what we heard today just before Sara Jane Olson was sentenced. In the 1970s, the now- housewife and mother was known as Kathleen Ann Soliah, a member, prosecutors say, of the Symbionese Liberation Army. Today's sentencing, though, is not the end of the story.
CNN's Charles Feldman has that. And he joins us from Los Angeles -- Charles.
CHARLES FELDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, in very many ways, it is the beginning of this story -- and a very unusual one indeed.
Two things happened today in two different parts of California. First, in a Los Angeles courtroom, Sara Jane Olson, that alleged former member of the SLA, was charged in connection with the murder of a bank customer during a holdup at a bank in Carmichael, California back in 1975.
Zip up to the Sacramento, California, and in a courtroom there, her alleged former confederates, Bill and Emily Harris -- no longer married to each other, by the way -- were also arraigned on those same murder charges stemming from their days as alleged members of the Symbionese Liberation Army. That's the revolutionary group, you may recall, that kidnapped newspaper heiress Patricia Hearst.
Now, minutes before Sara Jane Olson was arraigned on those murder charges, she was sentenced in connection with a plot also back in the 1970s to bomb two LAPD police cruisers, given a sentence of 20 years to life in prison. And while she did express some degree of contrition, she also maintained her innocence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARA JANE OLSON, DEFENDANT: I still maintain that I did not participate in these events in Los Angeles. But, in helping people, if I did anything that brought harm to other people, I am truly sorry,because I did not mean to. And I apologize to anyone I might have done that to, extremely sincere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FELDMAN: Now, prior to her statements, there was a parade of witnesses, both by the defense and the prosecution, attesting to her character and, in some cases, to her alleged not being of very good character. One of them was her daughter. And she became, as you will see, very emotional.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEILA PETERSON, DAUGHTER OF SARA JANE OLSON: She's one of the best mothers anyone would ever want. I'm sure if you met her, you would agree. My mom is just like Stevie Wonder's song. She is on your side no matter what. And I'll be always by your side no matter what happens. Mommy. Mommy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FELDMAN: Now, prosecutors, not to be outdone, produced John Hall. He was one of the former police officers who might have been killed had those bombs gone off back in 1975. And he said that, if that plot succeeded, he wouldn't be in court or alive today.
And, as for Sara Jane Olson, she will begin serving her sentence in Sacramento awaiting trial on the murder charges -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Charles Feldman in Los Angeles, thanks very much.
And joining us now to talk a little bit more about the Sara Jane Olson case and the homegrown American radical group, the Symbionese Liberation Army of the 1970s: the American University professor, Peter Kuznick.
Peter, thanks for joining us.
Remind our viewers, the Symbionese Liberation Army, the SLA in the '70s, what was their major grievance?
PETER KUZNICK, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY: Well, the Symbionese Liberation Army was founded in 1973. This was at a time when the Vietnam War was still going on. This was a time when there was a lot of radical sentiment throughout society.
BLITZER: These were left-wing radicals.
KUZNICK: These were left-wing radicals, not like today when have right-wing radicals.
So they had very different kinds of grievances. They were very concerned about race relations in the United States. This was time when the momentum of the early civil rights movement had pretty much died down. There was a lot of frustration among African-Americans. And it was a time when there was widespread discontent about the war in Vietnam.
BLITZER: If you take a look today after post-September 11 of last year, the current mood in America, looking back on the terrorism of the '70s, how is that going to play out as far as these suspects, these individuals aligned with the SLA are concerned, sentencing, trials, and the current public attitudes towards what may have happened 20 years ago?
KUZNICK: Well, there's very little tolerance for any kind of terrorism in the United States today. So I think that they are going to get much harsher sentences than they would have gotten back in the 1970s.
There was a sense of shock. If you look at the terrorism of the 1970s, so-called terrorism, it was individuals, unsophisticated, limited use of violence, mostly directed against property. It was bombing of buildings. You might recall that when the Army Research Center, the Math Research Center at the University of Wisconsin was bombed in 1970 and one graduate student was accidentally killed, the nation was horrified. And the left was horrified.
George Will said that this was the Hiroshima of the new left when one student was killed. So the attitude then, they were not trying to kill people, for the most part. They were trying to make a statement. And it was understandable in a certain sense -- not what they did -- that was not defensible -- but it was understandable because of the degree of frustration, especially about the war in Vietnam.
BLITZER: And the whole baby boomers who were growing up at that point -- they were in college or just finished college after the Vietnam War -- today, they are obviously -- they are middle-aged. They're you and me. You think they are going to be a lot less tolerant looking back, even though the social activism -- many of them, they were involved in anti-Vietnam war protests? How will that play out today as far as looking back on what happened then?
KUZNICK: Well, it probably depends on how soon they are prosecuted, because, right now, shortly after September 11, I think they are going to get a harsher treatment than they might get six months or a year from now.
BLITZER: OK, Peter Kuznick, thanks for your historic perspective on what is going on in California right now. I appreciate it very much.
KUZNICK: Thank you.
BLITZER: And when we come back: the fiery fury of a volcano.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
In Africa today, a volcanic eruption in the Democratic Republic of Congo has forced 400,000 people to flee.
CNN's Catherine Bond is in the region with this late report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CATHERINE BOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Behind me there is a faint glow in the sky of the volcanic eruption that sent a river of lava into the Congolese town of Goma.
That has displaced tens of thousands of people and hundreds of thousands of people in the area as a whole, because there are three lava flows coming out of the volcano. We are also still feeling earth tremors here and still seeing ash in the sky. And the Rwandan authorities have actually put the residents of Gisenyi on alert, asking them to be prepared to leave the town at any given moment in case the lava flows in this direction as well.
If you drive into Gisenyi downhill, you see Congolese to the left side of the road and the right, some of them with their stuff loaded onto trucks. Yes, a lot of people have been displaced so far. And we don't know what is happening in the rural areas, which are now cut off from this side of Goma.
So far, it seems to be Rwandan authorities which have been in charge of this evacuation from the Congolese town of Goma. And they seem to have a heavy presence here in Gisenyi, both in terms of the military and the police. They are trying to help displaced people, direct them up the road, to get them out of the way of any possible eruptions that might take place again.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Catherine Bond reporting to us from Africa.
And let's go live to New York now and get a preview of "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE." That begins right at the top of the hour -- Lou.
LOU DOBBS, "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE": Wolf, thank you very much.
Vice President Dick Cheney asking for money owed to Enron -- and two state attorney generals say they may stop doing business with Andersen Accounting. We'll have those stories for you. Senator Fred Thompson of the Governmental Affairs Committee will join us tonight. We'll also have a live report from Pakistan, where that country's president says Osama bin Laden is likely dead. And stocks today lose more on Wall Street. We'll have that story for you and a lot more coming up at the top of the hour. Please join us.
Now back to Wolf in Washington -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Lou.
And up next here: the fate of a priceless collection.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: A reminder: Nic Robertson hosts "LIVE FROM NEW YORK" overlooking ground zero, tonight, 8:00 Eastern, 5:00 Pacific.
Here's a live view of the World Trade Center. Site crews have so far removed more than 931,000 tons of debris. The death toll stands at 2,889.
And, as CNN's Maria Hinojosa reports, there's a movement under way to preserve their memories.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Four months later, like tattered teardrops of paper, they still stand in some places: at St. Vincent's Hospital, the wall of hope; in Grand Central Station, the wailing wall. But many, many more posters are gone. (on camera): I remember four days after 9/11 being on this corner. This bus stop was covered with posters of the missing. And I remember touching each one of their faces, saying my own personal goodbyes to them. But now those people and the posters are gone.
(voice-over): An entire missing-posters wall outside Pier 94 has disappeared, street corners where the posters battled the elements now wiped clean, restaurant windows covered with desperation now just blank windows. But will the posters all disappear one day? No, because museums are already thinking about history. Parts of walls are in art warehouses now, stored for the future.
(on camera): These walls may have been up in our city two weeks ago. Now they're in a museum and we can't touch them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
HINOJOSA: It's a strange thing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it's a transition I think that the museums have been very keenly aware of in a way that what we're doing is we're taking the tragic presence and we're sort of ushering it into the historical past.
HINOJOSA (voice-over): So experts are being consulted, paper conservators. How do you make magic marker last forever, keep yarn and scotch tape from disintegrating?
(on camera): It's interesting because you have two here at the top that are ripped.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Yes it is.
HINOJOSA: And you want to see the rest of the story. But as a museum...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, that is part of it. Actually, it was in a public place. It was seen by the public. This was an object that was not created for a museum. It was created to be used by the public.
HINOJOSA: By people like the family of missing firefighter Angel Juarbe...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "God, find our son Angel. Love, his mom and dad. Ladder 12, Engine 3, badge 6622.
HINOJOSA: ... who put his posters up everywhere.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It gave some us hope that maybe someone would recognize him.
HINOJOSA: Juarbe's body was found on November 27, the missing posters replaced by a shrine in his basement built with love by his father. Juarbe and all the victims once missing, now just very badly missed. Maria Hinojosa, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And I'll be back in one hour with a special report: "How Safe Are Your Skies?"
I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" begins right now.
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