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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
John Walker Makes First Court Appearance; Was al Qaeda Working on Secret Weapon?
Aired January 24, 2002 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: THE WAR ROOM.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRANK LINDH, FATHER OF JOHN WALKER LINDH: John did not take up arms against America. He never meant to harm any American.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Terrorists didn't compel John Walker to join with them. John Walker chose terrorists.
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BLITZER: A Taliban American meets with his parents and a judge.
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DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: We are finding them from time to time, and as we find them, we're engaging in direct action.
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BLITZER: U.S. special forces find more of their foes, and plenty of action.
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BLITZER: An exclusive look at plans left behind in the ruins of Afghanistan. Was al Qaeda working on a secret weapon? We'll hear from our correspondents, and I'll speak live with Senate Intelligence Chairman Bob Graham and retired General Wesley Clark, former NATO supreme commander, as we go into the WAR ROOM.
Good evening. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting tonight from Washington. Taliban American John Walker Lindh showed up in court today. He's facing federal charges including conspiring to kill fellow Americans. CNN national correspondent Susan Candiotti has been tracking this case and she brings us the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Driven before dawn about two blocks from jail to courthouse, John Walker Lindh, sandwiched between federal agents. Looking far different than he did after his capture, the American-Taliban's beard and long hair, gone, his head, close-shaven. He looked around briefly when he walked into court, without glancing at his parents seated in the second row. The charges were read, including conspiring to kill U.S. nationals overseas. The possible penalties, including life behind bars, laid out.
Magistrate Curtis Sewell: Do you understand the charges?
Walker Lindh: Yes, I understand.
Do you have any questions?
No, I don't have any questions.
Walker Lindh's attorneys, hired by his parents and approved by their son, charge that after his capture, he was denied early medical treatment and access to a lawyer before talking with the FBI.
JAMES BROSNAHAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: He began requesting a lawyer almost immediately, which would have been December 2 or 3. For 54 days, he was held incommunicado.
ASHCROFT: He chose to waive his right to an attorney, both orally and in writing before his statement to the FBI. Mr. Walker will be held responsible in the courtroom for his choices.
CANDIOTTI: Legal experts call Walker's statements to the FBI crucial to the government's case. In it he allegedly admits training in al Qaeda camps, and being told about planned suicide attacks in the U.S..
JOHN WALKER LINDH, AMERICAN TALIBAN: The training camps...
CANDIOTTI: Also part of the government's case, a CNN interview with Walker Lindh shot shortly after his capture. Both pieces of evidence expected to be challenged by his lawyers. Walker Lindh met his parents for about 20 minutes before the hearing, separated by a mesh screen in a small room with an FBI agent present.
MARILYN WALKER, JOHN WALKER LINDH'S MOTHER: It's been two years since I last saw my son. It was wonderful to see him this morning. My love for him is unconditional and absolute.
FRANK LINDH: John did not take up arms against America. He never meant to harm any American, and he never did harm any American. John is innocent of these charges.
CANDIOTTI: For now, Walker Lindh's being held in this city jail, confined to a seven and a half by seven and a half foot cell equipped with a bed, sink and toilet. Joined to a common area with a TV. (on camera): Walker Lindh is allowed scheduled visits with his parents and meetings with his lawyers. He will next appear in court in two weeks and sources say he could be indicted by a grand jury before then. Susan Candiotti, CNN, Alexandria, Virginia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: In Afghanistan, U.S. special forces have been involved in gun battles during raids on a pair of Taliban compounds. Let's go live to CNN's Martin Savidge, he's on the scene in Kandahar for details -- Marty.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, we continue to learn more information about this confrontation that took place and the more we learn, the more realize that it was perhaps a significant fire fight/battle. Perhaps one of most significant that has taken place in sometime that we are aware of.
It should be underlined that special forces are in operation almost around the clock, here. And most times they do not make their actions public, however, in this particular case they were made public. It occurred a little over 24 hours ago, about 60 miles north of the Kandahar Airport when U.S. special forces, coalition forces and friendly Afghan forces were moving in on two compounds believed to be held by al Qaeda and the Taliban. It was shortly after they moved in that the fire fight broke out.
This is General Richard Myers, from the joint chiefs, talking about the action.
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GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: We conducted a raid against Taliban leadership in a mountain region north of Kandahar. Our forces attacked two compounds and attained 27 individuals. There were enemy forces killed in this action, and one U.S. special forces soldier was slightly injured. He was wounded in the ankle and has been evacuated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: Those al Qaeda and Taliban forces that were captured have now been moved to the Kandahar Airport here. They are going to under go interrogation. Want to find out what information they knew -- they know, rather and also trying to determine if any of them maybe members of the al Qaeda leadership.
One U.S. special forces soldier was wounded in the ankle. He was treated on the scene, he was then brought to the Kandahar Airport here, had additional medical treatment. It was determined to be pretty much a specialized wound. He has been moved to another medical facility in the region. His name has not been released.
Also, it was reported that there was a large supply of weapons and ammunition that was destroyed by an AC-130 gunship. So that shows you that in this battle air assets were brought in to bear. All of this goes to prove that despite the buildup of U.S. forces here, as they dig in, Afghanistan continues to be a dangerous place and the prospect for further U.S. casualties is also something that continues to exist -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Martin Savidge in Kandahar, thanks for that report.
And meanwhile, U.S. forces will continue their search and destroy missions, trying to root out die hard Taliban and al Qaeda fighters.
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RUMSFELD: There are lot more of those pockets. We are going to pursue them. We are pursuing them now, we pursue them alone, we pursue them with coalition forces, we pursue with Afghan forces. And we will keep at them until we get them.
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BLITZER: And the Defense Secretary also made it clear U.S. troops will remain in Afghanistan for some time to come.
Documents left behind by al Qaeda forces in Kabul show the terrorist group had a sophisticated bomb building program, with hopes of achieving someday nuclear capability. CNN national correspondent Mike Boettcher joins me now live from Atlanta with details on al Qaeda's deadly ambitions. Provide us, Mike, some of those details.
MIKE BOETTCHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, they had serious program as you said, with heavy emphasis trying to build some sort of nuclear weapon. Also, there was a heavy emphasis on building and making high explosives, using materials that could be readily found in the public.
Now experts we commissioned to take a look that the said, it shows that al Qaeda was more advanced than we thought. Those documents were found in mid-November by CNN producer, Ingrid Arnesen who was taken to several houses by Afghan police. Let's pick up this story that will run in about one hour, a more complete story on the documents at the house where the documents were found.
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(voice-over): At this house, described by neighbors as occupied by armed Saudis, we found a bag near a shed containing neatly arranged piles of documents. Among them, this one, large Arabic letters written in blue marker, spelling the chilling words "super bombs."
Inside, words in English "nuclear fission," isotopes and heating temperatures for Uranium 235 and 238. If it was a blueprint for a nuclear bomb experts say it was not workable. But why was it written? Why did discarded notes from an apparent al Qaeda safe house, discuss nuclear designs? To try to find out why we commissioned an exhaustive review of apparent al Qaeda documents, CNN found in Afghanistan.
We start with this design, found in a 25-page document filled with information about nuclear weapons. The design would require difficult to obtain materials like plutonium to create a nuclear explosion. Something al Qaeda is not believed to possess. But with easier too acquire radioactive materials, it could become something called a radiological dispersal weapon, also known as a dirty bomb. A device that does not create a nuclear explosion, but instead blows radioactive debris over a wide area, a scenario could that could render entire city blocks uninhabitable.
DAVID ALBRIGHT, NUCLEAR PHYSICIST: That's one of the things that has to give you pause, is that they have been thinking about this for a long time. And so the question is when did they start in earnest to learn how to make a nuclear explosive?
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BOETTCHER: Now our experts that examined the document emphasized that judging from what they saw in the documents al Qaeda does not have the capability right now to build a nuclear bomb, but they are sure interested in trying to do it. We also found business documents in another house that indicate they were trying to find ways to obtain uranium -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Mike Boettcher, and Mike of course will have much more. Just the beginning of these documents, when he joins Marty Savidge at 8:00 p.m. Eastern tonight for his special report "LIVE FROM AFGHANISTAN."
And do these documents reveal a significant threat? How many graduates of al Qaeda's bomb-making courses are there out there? Joining me here in the CNN WAR ROOM, Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Bob Graham and the retired General Wesley Clark, CNN military analyst, former NATO supreme allied commander. You can e-mail your WAR ROOM questions to me, by the way. Just go to my Web page, CNN.com/wolf, and that's also, by the way, where you can read my daily column.
Senator Graham, you have studied this question, how close do you believe these terrorists were to developing some crude nuclear capability?
SEN. BOB GRAHAM (D-FL), INTELLIGENCE CHAIRMAN: Well, as you know, Wolf, we have been concerned about this almost from the beginning. There were evidences that some Pakistani nuclear scientist had assisted the Taliban in accelerating their development, that the Taliban might have gotten some fissionable material, possibly from Russia or some other source that had made it accessible to them. This was one of our nightmare scenarios that the Taliban, al Qaeda would become nuclear capable.
BLITZER: But as far as you know, and you know obviously a lot as chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, they didn't get close enough to pose a real credible threat to the rest of us?
GRAHAM: To our knowledge, they did not reach the point that they had an operational bomb, but that they were committed to having some nuclear capability. Probably the dirty bomb, as was discussed on your piece, was a goal and they were moving aggressively to accomplish that goal.
BLITZER: General Clark, how alarmed are you by these reports?
RETIRED GENERAL WESLEY CLARK, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I think it's a matter of continuing concern. It's something we have got to guard against. We know that there is material still fissionable material that is on the loose. We get reports of it occasionally in the caucuses in Georgia, elsewhere as it's being smuggled out from countries of the former Soviet Union.
And making a nuclear weapon requires a lot of very, very capable highly-skilled engineers and some special equipment. But making a dirty bomb doesn't. And a dirty bomb on a ship in a harbor would be a terrible weapon.
BLITZER: A lot of people think that it's still a credible threat. And they did have, and it's proven not only in these documents that our team -- Mike Boettcher and his team discovered, but a lot of other intelligence documents that the FBI and others now have in their possession. They had a lot of conventional capabilities, plastic explosives, which are still pretty deadly out there.
GRAHAM: We are dealing with a small group of people. The al Qaeda is not a large army but they are very violent. They are religiously motivated to the point of extreme zealotry, and they are not stupid people. They have the capability of conducting an operation such as tragically hit us on the 11th of September and attempting to develop these more sophisticated armaments.
BLITZER: And despite the fact they have been dispersed and they have been weakened and the Taliban is no longer their protector, could they still launch a serious terror strike against the United States?
GRAHAM: What the concern is is that al Qaeda is not just an Afghanistan organization. They have sleeper cells maybe in as many as 40 countries around the world in virtually every corner of the world. And from what we have known, these sleeper cells are people who have been trained in particular areas of operation who are attempting to insinuate themselves into the community, be accepted, and then when called be upon, to execute on their plans.
BLITZER: General Clark, I want you to listen to what the FBI director said this week while he was visiting Kabul about some of the information they have collected. Listen to this.
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ROBERT MUELLER, DIRECTOR, FBI: Around the world, the information that has been obtained from interrogations of al Qaeda members who have been detained here in Afghanistan as well as information gleaned from documents found in Afghanistan, that that information has prevented additional attacks against the United States facilities around the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: We know of some specifics, the U.S. embassy, supposedly, in Yemen was a target. In Singapore, they have made a series of arrests. But this kind of information that they get from documents, from interrogations can be crucial.
CLARK: Absolutely crucial. I think this is very encouraging for a couple of reasons. Number one, it indicates that the strategy of going to Afghanistan, not just to destroy the base of al Qaeda, but to take intelligence, was a fruitful strategy. It's given good results.
And secondly, it shows that despite their zealotry, some of these people will talk. And as time goes by, more and more will talk, and that's really the key. Getting this intelligence is the critical weapon we need to take apart the al Qaeda network.
BLITZER: Is there new information now about the whereabouts of Osama bin Laden?
GRAHAM: If I could just comment on what the general has just said...
BLITZER: Go ahead.
GRAHAM: This also indicates the importance of changing the orientation of our war against terrorists from defensive, where we are trying to guard ourselves against their attacks, to offensive, going where they are, including getting the information that we can get and then using it to avoid attacks. That's going to be the key, and that's why intelligence will be such an important part of this war on terrorism.
As to Osama bin Laden, intelligence continues to say that every evidence is that he is still alive. Where he is, unknown.
BLITZER: Everybody still guessing that game. We are going to pick that up. We have a lot more to talk about when come back. We will also take a look at the new front in the war on terror. How much action will United States troops see in the Philippines? Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to the CNN WAR ROOM. Senator Graham, we have an e-mail from Ken in Arlington, Virginia, wants to know this question -- fair question: If John Walker was able to join the Taliban, why wasn't the CIA able to infiltrate it or al Qaeda with any of their agents?
GRAHAM: First, what we would want to have by someone who could infiltrate was probably more than Walker could bring to the party. We wanted somebody who could get close enough to bin Laden to be able to get information as to capabilities and intentions so that we could prevent future attacks. I don't believe Walker ever got to that level.
Second, up until October of this year, we had restraints on our ability to hire people, which essentially were interpreted as meaning if you had had a bad background and record, you were not employable to do this kind of dirty work for the United States. In October, with the new anti-terrorism legislation, we modified that and we are probably going to be hiring some people who you wouldn't want necessarily to invite to your home for lunch but who are the kind of people who can get close to these terrorists and get the information that is going to be critical if we are to prevent future attacks.
BLITZER: Another e-mail for you, General. Mimi in Alexandria, Virginia: Is there a possibility that Saudi intelligence knew about the al Qaeda attacks on New York and Washington before September 11? If that was the case, why didn't they notify the United States?
CLARK: I think it's highly unlikely that the Saudis would have withheld information like that from the United States. The consequences are just profound. They just would not have done that. They would have found some way to let us know.
BLITZER: Are the Saudis being fully cooperative with the U.S. in this war on terror?
GRAHAM: Fully cooperative, probably not adequately cooperative. Yes, they are providing us with some air space, with some bases from which we are launching a number of these operations. And they are providing with us some intelligence.
BLITZER: The Philippines seems to be the next theater for the U.S. military. There's a history the United States has in southeast Asia, militarily speaking, which is not all that pleasant. Is there a potential problem getting dragged into a mess in the Philippines?
CLARK: Well, I think the Philippines is going to be a very different environment than Afghanistan, not only physically but also politically. You know, there is resistance to the U.S. role there already among some elements of the Philippines' population.
We do have a long history in the Philippines. A century ago, we were fighting and killing people in the Philippines. Now, we are going to be assisting the Philippine military to do this, and it's a question of how effective is our training? How much are we willing to share? And how close to the front will we be? But my guess is that we are going to measure our results by results, not by rules. And that means we will go as close to the front as necessary.
BLITZER: And this is a case, as you know, Senator, where the host government fully supports and is cooperating with the United States.
GRAHAM: And this is going to be a recurring issue as we go to the next phases of this war after Afghanistan. I've said that when the book on the war on terrorism is written, in my judgment, the Afghanistan chapter, as difficult as it has been, is going to be one of the easier chapters because where we are going to be going after this, we can't use some of our natural superiority such as in aerial bombardment. We are going to have to have constant diplomatic initiatives to maintain the relationship with the host country so that we can operate there. We are going to have to keep the coalition together. We are going to have to be engaged in small unit, close contact operations such as we are getting ready to do in the Philippines, hopefully just as advisers, not as actual combatants. But it is going to be a much more difficult and probably higher casualty set of engagements that we are about to enter.
BLITZER: Unless -- and very briefly, General -- Iraq is the next target. Then you get back to a more conventional war planning kind of operation.
CLARK: But I don't see Iraq as the next target. I mean, we are already in the Philippines and we don't have the diplomatic support. And there are too many loose pieces for Iraq to be the next target. It's going to take some time to set that up. And Saddam Hussein is going to have to be given a legitimate chance, persuaded by other countries to cooperate with the United Nations. That's under way right now. It's not over yet.
BLITZER: OK. General, Senator, thanks for joining us.
GRAHAM: Thank you.
BLITZER: Appreciate it very much.
And we will be back in just a moment with a quick check of this hour's late developments, including a school bus with 13 students onboard never makes it to school. Where did it end up? We'll find out when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
Thirteen Pennsylvania schoolchildren are being reunited with their parents this evening after their school bus driver took them 100 miles off their route. The children's school is north of Philadelphia. They and their bus were spotted by an off-duty police officer in Maryland near the nation's Capitol. The kids were OK and they were taken off the bus.
A loaded rifle was found onboard. The driver is now in federal custody. The FBI says he told them he wanted to show the students Washington, D.C.
And at this hour, we're standing by, we're waiting for the reunion. You're looking at a live picture. We anticipate that the parents will be showing up here in Prince George's County, right outside of Washington D.C., to be reunited with their kids sometime soon. When that happens, we'll try to bring that to you live here on CNN.
And that's all the time we have tonight. Please join me again tomorrow, twice, at both 5:00 and 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. CROSSFIRE begins right now.
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