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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Former Enron Executive Found Dead; White House Weighs Options on Yasser Arafat
Aired January 25, 2002 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Now on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, he made massive profits on his company's stock. Congress wanted to speak with him. Now a former Enron executive is dead.
Fed up and furious with the Palestinian leader, the Bush administration weighs its options.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I am disappointed in Yasser Arafat. He must make a full effort to rout out terror in the Middle East.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Did shoe bomb suspect Richard Reid act alone? Laboratory tests offer an answer.
An Airbus A-300 lost its tail in a deadly November crash. Is this popular plane safe? Some pilots aren't so sure.
Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Also, was there a plot to kill Secretary of State Colin Powell? In this hour, we'll hear from a reporter who says yes. First, the latest developments.
The former vice chairman of Enron was found shot to death today in a Houston, Texas suburb. Police say J. Clifford Baxter apparently committed suicide. Baxter made millions of dollars on the sale of Enron stock before resigning last May. Enron declared bankruptcy last month. We'll have much more on this in just a moment.
Afghanistan takes another key step toward a long-term stable government. The interim leader, Hamid Karzai, today announced the names of those who will form a General Assembly. The assembly will pick a transitional government to rule for 18 months, until elections are held.
President Bush says he'll ask Congress for almost $11 billion to beef up border security against possible terrorist attacks. That's an increase of $2 billion more than last year. During a one-day trip to Maine, Mr. Bush praised the U.S. Coast Guard, saying it will get its largest budget increase in years. Israel launched air strikes against Palestinian security installations in Gaza and the West Bank today. A compound hit in Gaza houses some of the offices of Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Authority. There's no word on casualties.
The attack came hours after a suicide bomber blew himself up in Tel Aviv, killing himself and wounding at least 22 people. No one's claimed responsibility. The Tel Aviv attack comes one day after Israeli forces killed a Hamas activist in a missile strike.
Now back to our top story, the tragic new twist and the fallout surrounding the collapse of Enron. One of the company's former top executives was found dead today in Texas, the victim of an apparent suicide. J. Clifford Baxter made millions of dollars cashing in on Enron stock options, but was apparently unhappy with Enron's business practices and quit last year. CNN's Ed Lavandera joins us now live from Houston. He has details -- Ed.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, what we've been able to do today is compile several different pieces of this puzzle and a couple of new twists to add to this this afternoon. We've spoken with officials here in the Houston area that say the preliminary autopsy results for Mr. Baxter will take about three to four days to get back.
Mr. Baxter left Enron in May of last year and he was very open in criticizing and questioning the accounting practices of the partnerships that Enron was involved in. His name came to light when the Sherron Watkins memo that we've heard so much about over the last couple of weeks came to light, in that letter that she sent to Mr. Ken Lay, head of the company, saying that Mr. Baxter openly questioned and would talk to anybody who would listen about what he thought were inappropriate activities in terms of -- because of these partnerships.
Police in Sugar Land Texas, which is just west, about 30 minutes west of Houston, say that Mr. Baxter was found about 2:30 in the morning less than a mile away from his house with a gunshot, a self- inflicted gunshot wound they say to his head. There was a suicide note found in the car with him. He was less than a mile away.
We've had a chance to speak today with several of his -- the family neighbors there. They say that the Baxter family is intensely private and that there aren't many people around that neighborhood that know a whole lot about him.
We also understand that Mrs. Watkins has issued a statement late this afternoon saying that she is deeply saddened and stunned beyond belief at the news of Mr. Baxter's untimely death. Mr. Baxter, she says, had the utmost integrity and she respected him immensely.
Mr. Baxter, as you mentioned, was also -- wanted to speak with Congressional investigators. Sources tell CNN that he was -- after he emerged in this letter, that Congressional investigators wanted to talk to him. And then as early as this morning, his attorney was speaking with Congressional investigators before either side knew that he had died. But exactly the scope of the questioning and what kind of information they're looking for isn't quite clear at this point. Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: And as far as you know, Ed, he had not yet spoken with any of those Congressional investigators or investigators from the Justice Department Task Force?
LAVANDERA: That's as far as we know, and that's the other part of this puzzle we're trying to piece together at this point, just how far along those conversations had gone. As you know, there have been so many names that have come out in this Enron story, and he wasn't a central figure or a prominent name in the story so far, but definitely someone that popped up on the radar and started generating a little bit of interest from what our sources tell us in D.C.
BLITZER: Ed Lavandera in Houston, thanks for that report. And, of course, many people endure tragedy, failure and huge personal setbacks without resorting to suicide. But what does drive someone to take that drastic final step?
Joining us now on the phone to shed some insight on this issue is Paul Bard. He's a psychologist. He's an expert on suicide. Dr. Bard, thanks for joining us. This is obviously something that no one can, we certainly will never understand. But what does drive a successful business person in this particular case potentially to make this ultimate decision?
PAUL BARD, FORDHAM UNIVERSITY PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, again we don't know all the details, but pain, raw, emotional pain, blinding pain is what leads to taking such a drastic action.
BLITZER: When you say blinding pain, are there chemical developments in the brain that affect this kind of decision, given the pressures that build up?
BARD: Yes, pressure of course a euphemism. It's anxiety. At its mildest form, we see anxiety in people who are about to go before a large audience and even pass out just at the thought of that. This is obviously the extreme of anxiety, the pain of remorse for anything that he did do or might have done, shame for what it might bring to his family.
I mean there's a whole range of thoughts that could have filled his mind and led to that anxiety, and what happens is the brain produces chemicals that flood out the frontal lobes, where the rational decision making takes place, and once those are neutralized, then all you have is action ensuing from emotion or from the anxiety.
And then, some people deal with it different ways. They seek out help. Some try to just cope with it in life. Others go into distractions, such as substance abuse and so on.
BLITZER: In Mr. Baxter's case though, he was among those who was urging the company to move away from some of those shady accounting practices.
BARD: Yes. BLITZER: He was also one that cashed in on the stock options at the right moment. He made money, went away with $30 million or so. Wouldn't he in the scheme of things be seen as someone less likely, presumably, to commit suicide, given the fact that he did emerge with his wealth intact and he was on the right side, if you will, of the issue?
BARD: Well again, he might have felt so badly for all the people who were harmed by what went on there that he could well have had the thought, you know, I tried but I should have done more. I could have done more.
We don't know what he thoughts are and this is where your moral values come into play, and sometimes it takes a real crisis before those things really kick in. And then we go, how could I have done this or let this happen, and so on. We don't know what his thinking was, only that it resulted in that blinding pain.
BLITZER: Paul Bard of Fordham University in New York City, thanks for that information. And, of course, you can get an in-depth look at Enron's fall from Wall Street to Washington to Texas. Simply go to cnn.com, AOL keyword CNN.
And shifting now to America's War on Terrorism. There's new evidence in the case of the alleged shoe bomber, Richard Reid. Authorities say they have forensic evidence that proves Reid did not act alone. According to government and intelligence sources, palm prints and hair samples belonging to someone other than Reid were discovered in the bomb material in Reid's shoes. Reid has said that he acted alone. He's charged with attempting to blow up an American Airlines flight from Paris to Miami in December.
And in a related development, Federal investigators say a Canadian man is the fifth suspected al Qaeda member seen delivering martyrdom messages on a videotape. The suspect is a native of Tunisia in northern Africa. The videotapes found in Afghanistan were released last week. Attorney General John Ashcroft released details about the man about 30 minutes ago.
And, joining us now to talk more about all of this, the military and terrorist analyst David Isby. Let's talk first of all about Richard Reid. I think it was widely assumed by a lot of people there is no way he could have acted alone. This forensic evidence would seem to nail that down pretty conclusively, wouldn't you say?
DAVID ISBY, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes. I mean it had been fairly obvious for some time that he was probably not acting alone. The explosions themselves were fairly sophisticated, not simply homemade. His previous travels also. His trip to Israel on what appears to have been a reconnaissance mission, and also the reports in the press from some Taliban that they remembered him from training camps inside of Afghanistan.
BLITZER: It's one thing though to assume he was not acting alone. Based on the money that he had, he presumably didn't even have a job but was flying all over the world, paying cash for tickets. It's another thing, though, to have specific forensic evidence, palm prints, hair samples, which apparently is the case right now.
ISBY: And these can possibly be mixed and matched with other forensic samples, either from bombs, which have been taken in the past, or other sources.
BLITZER: What about these new pictures that were released by the attorney general, John Ashcroft, the new information about these other suspected al Qaeda members. He released it a little while ago and we see what they look like in their traditional attire, but what they might look like in western attire as well. Do you think this could be effective in helping the public in turn help the law enforcement authorities find these individuals?
ISBY: Well, it will be helpful for the public and also reminds people worldwide, including our foreign allies, that these groups are still out here flowing from Afghanistan and sort of to keep the pressure on to watch borders and look for these people, especially in places like the European community, and in the case of this most latest suspect in Canada.
BLITZER: And the rewards that are out there for these individuals, does that normally in the Middle East especially, have an impact?
ISBY: Yes, rewards are a good thing. However, for these people traveling underground, dealing only with ideologically committed co- conspirators, it may have more limited affect. However, just the knowledge the reward is out there inhibits their actions. It means they can't deal with people who they think might be sympathetic because they may turn them in.
BLITZER: Presumably, these individuals are still in the Middle East or South Asia someplace. How does the U.S. government work with other governments to get these pictures out there?
ISBY: I think this is going to be a very key thing in the idea of human, in cooperation with governments, indeed even governments which haven't been friendly up to the future. Places like Yemen, Somalia are now looking towards cooperation, simply because they saw how serious the U.S. is, and the damage that can be done.
BLITZER: David Isby, thanks again for joining us.
ISBY: Thank you.
BLITZER: Afghanistan's interim leader, Hamid Karzai, will be coming to Washington to meet with President Bush on Monday. We'll have one of the first interviews with him right here on this program, Monday afternoon 5:00 Eastern, of course 2:00 Pacific.
And I'll preview President Karzai's visit tonight here in the CNN "WAR ROOM". Among my guests, the former U.S. Ambassador to Pakistan Robert Oakley, and the former counterterrorism Ambassador-at-Large Paul Bremmer. That's at 7:00 Eastern, 4:00 Pacific. You can participate. Go to my web page, cnn.com/wolf, click on "send questions." I'll get to as many of them to my panel as possible, and that's also of course where you can read my daily online column.
And turning now to the crisis in the Middle East. The Bush Administration is considering taking a dramatic new step, cutting ties with the Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat. Discussion on this comes amid almost daily violence in the region, and Arafat's alleged attempt to buy weapons from Iran. Our Senior White House Correspondent John King is covering all of this. He joins us now with the latest developments. John.
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the administration's displeasure, some say growing anger with Yasser Arafat discussed at an urgent meeting today of the National Security Council here at the White House. Some administration officials hope just that, the fact that there is such a high level meeting here at the White House, convinces Mr. Arafat to act, to do more. If he doesn't though, administration sources say they President will act soon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice over): The President made clear his patience with Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat is running short.
BUSH: Ordering up weapons that were intercepted on a boat heading toward, headed for that part of the world is not part of fighting terror. That's enhancing terror. And, obviously I'm very disappointed in it.
KING: Top advisors say Mr. Bush is angry that Mr. Arafat continues to deny Palestinian Authority involvement in the major arms shipment seized by Israel early this month. Senior U.S. officials say there is clear evidence that Mr. Bush held an animated discussion with his National Security team Friday to discuss options.
They include the dramatic step of severing U.S. ties with the Palestinian Authority, and several lesser sanctions, adding Arafat's security force to the U.S. list of terrorist groups, closing the Palestinian Authority's Washington office, and ending or suspending the work of Bush Special Mid-East Envoy Anthony Zinni.
Members of Congress, just back from the region, are among those demanding a tougher U.S. line.
REP. GARY ACKERMAN (D), NEW YORK: We have to take steps and say, "you have not kept your end of the deal. We're not giving you this basket of goodies.
KING: But some international policy veterans say punishing Mr. Arafat could prove counterproductive.
LEE HAMILTON, WOODROW WILSON CENTER: I don't know what the alternative is, and to isolate him, which is another word of saying humiliating him, I do not think is the path to peace.
KING: Sources tell CNN, Mr. Arafat is being told he must quickly acknowledge Palestinian Authority involvement in the arms shipment, arrest and detain close advisors implicated in the arms deal, and drop what the White House considers a reluctance to crackdown on terror groups operating in the Palestinian territories.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: He knows what is expected of the Palestinian Authority, and of him as the leader of that authority.
KING: The President appealed for help last week in letters to the leaders of Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia. Mr. Bush asked them to pressure Mr. Arafat, and shared some of what one senior official said was compelling and conclusive evidence that senior Palestinian Authority officials were involved in the weapons shipment.
Secretary Powell is said, by sources, to favor incremental sanctions if Mr. Arafat does not act soon. Vice President Cheney and Defense Secretary Rumsfeld favor breaking relations.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING (on camera): Administration officials say there is no firm deadline for the President to make a decision, but one senior official put it this way. Mr. Arafat "should not think for a minute that time is on his side" -- Wolf.
BLITZER: John, you say Secretary Powell wants incremental steps, but Secretary Rumsfeld and the Vice President want to break relations with the PLO leader. Any word what the President is thinking on this?
KING: We are told, Wolf, the President is quite torn by this. It was just a little more than a week ago we asked the President this question in the oval office. He said he did not want to break relations with the Palestinian Authority because he did not want to disengage from the Middle East.
But, we are told, he is increasingly angry that Palestinian leader Arafat will not admit the authority was involved in that arms shipment, and we are told he is being pressured by this argument, that it is inconsistent to have relations with Arafat if you go around every day, as the President did yet again today, and say the Bush doctrine in the War on Terrorism is that if you harbor terrorists, provide them safe haven, the United States will hold you accountable.
BLITZER: John King at the White House, thanks very much. And joining us now with their take on whether the United States should cut ties with Yasser Arafat, the possible ramifications if that happens, Democratic Congressman, Robert Wexler. He's a member of the International Relations Committee, and James Zogby of the Arab- American Institute. Thanks to both of you for joining us.
Lee Hamilton, a former member of the House says this would be counterproductive to break ties with Yasser Arafat. Do you disagree with him?
REP. ROBERT WEXLER (D), FLORIDA: I do unfortunately. Chairman Arafat has left even those of us that have supported the peace process, supported active American involvement, with no choice. Chairman Arafat's activities over the last couple of weeks have been dire in the context of, is he a partner for peace.
You do not import 50 tons of explosives from Iran and say you're a partner for peace. You don't turn your own security forces, Tanzim (ph) and Fatah (ph) into groups just like Hamas, and Islamic Jihad, and say I'm a partner for peace.
BLITZER: All right.
WEXLER: So the President is correct. To be consistent, he will need to sever ties from Yasser Arafat.
BLITZER: What about Jim Zogby?
JAMES ZOGBY, ARAB-AMERICAN INSTITUTE: Well, it would be biting off our nose to spite our face. It would be counterproductive and would not serve the cause that we are engaged in, and that is the search for peace.
Look, there's no doubt that it's difficult, but there is a tragic and continuing cycle of violence that is taking lives on both sides. Arafat declared a ceasefire. It was holding but provocative actions on one side led to reactions on the other side, and we're off to the races again. That is a terrible circumstance, but we must apply a balanced form of pressure. We have not done so, and I think we have to own up to that. We've not been balanced in this. There's a asymmetry of power. Israel's got it, the Palestinians don't, but from our end, there's an asymmetry of compassion, we give it to Israel, and an asymmetry of pressure. We put that on the Palestinians. And we've got to somehow find a way to balance that.
BLITZER: Congressman.
WEXLER: Both President Bush and former President Clinton have given Yasser Arafat every opportunity to cleanse himself from terrorism. At each and every opportunity, Chairman Arafat has refused to do so. I wish I could believe, as I did for so many years, that peace is possible. It is possible, but it's not possible with Yasser Arafat.
ZOGBY: Well, it's not possible...
WEXLER: We need to divorce ourselves from...
ZOGBY: It's not possible with Ariel Sharon either, and I think that's the problem. We have a situation right now that requires American leadership, because we have difficulties on both sides, and to pretend that if we somehow change Arafat, that that will make the situation better, that absolves us of a very deep responsibility.
This is not just about Israelis and Palestinians. It's about American interests. It's about securing peace that secures America's interests and stability in a region where we need support. And to simply take one side of this, which is what the Congressman is proposing, is not in America's interest right now.
WEXLER: No, America needs to stand with our democratic ally, Israel. We also need to recognize the undeniable rights of the Palestinian people, which President Bush did, which President Clinton did, which Prime Minister Barak, former Prime Minister Barak of Israel did. But Chairman Arafat refused to disassociate himself from terrorism.
BLITZER: But Congressman, if the United States is not going to try to calm things down between the Israelis and the Palestinians, and they're left on their own, isn't the bad situation, the terrible situation which exists right now, potentially likely to get even much worse?
WEXLER: Wolf, we have been doing this for decades. If we had had this discussion a year ago, I would have said you're right. If we had had this discussion two months ago, I would have said you're right. But the only way we're going to resolve this situation is for the Palestinian people, in a democratic manner, to pick a new leader, for the Palestinian people to debate amongst themselves. Are they going to be just yet another Hamas group, or are they going to be a democratic people?
ZOGBY: That would be nice if the Palestinian people were in a position to have anything close to the freedom to choose. The fact is they did have an election and elected Yasser Arafat, and the point is, for the last 16 months, they are living under a state of siege that is not equaled anywhere else in the world and we have to deal with the reality of that. People are in despair. The psychologist said in the first segment of this show about the pain of despair that leads one to that. Remember, when these young boys are murdering Israelis, they're killing themselves and it's because of the despair, the absolute unbearable pain of living under the kind of occupation of it. The unemployment rate is higher than it's every been and sustained now for almost 13 years. We can not continue to let this situation go unabated.
WEXLER: Chairman Arafat's greatest historical failure is not just the peace process, which he destroyed, but it's that he in essence destroyed the wishes and the desires of his people. It's his corruption. It's his actions that have led to the despair amongst the Palestinian people. In any state, America would do exactly what Israel is doing. We would even be rougher if they had to endure the kind of terrorism that Israel has.
ZOGBY: Unfortunately, I can't go with that. I'd like to find a way to find common ground, Congressman, but it's not going to work here because I think that you do not want to see the Israelis at fault in this. And the fact is, is that Arafat has made mistakes, no doubt, and the Palestinians have made blunders, no doubt. But Israel has behaved brutally, and I think at times...
WEXLER: With all due respect...
ZOGBY: Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Settlement size has doubled since the peace process began. That means people have lost land.
WEXLER: Yes. ZOGBY: That means people have lost the ability to move freely. That means people have lost jobs. And the fact is, is that Palestinians are living with a kind of despair where Arafat doesn't have the ability today to provide the leadership we want from him.
WEXLER: Terrorism is not a blunder. Terrorism is murder.
ZOGBY: I don't think you can find Arafat guilty of that.
WEXLER: Settlements, issues regarding economic issues are to be negotiated. That's what partners in peace do. Yasser Arafat had that opportunity at the end of the Clinton Administration. He dismissed it. He had it again.
BLITZER: Let me just -- let me clarify one point you made, and I'm sure you weren't justifying the suicide bombers.
ZOGBY: Not at all.
BLITZER: The despair that was generated.
ZOGBY: Not at all. Absolutely not and I think that the people who send these young desperate boys on their mission are the evil ones, and they -- Congressman -- they deserve punishment and should be arrested. The fact is, is that as Arafat has gone to arrest them, demonstrations have occurred outside the homes of these people because he has lost the leverage, because people no longer trust in the peace process. Look, I understand a blunder was made at the end of the Clinton Administration, and I supported the President in what he had tried to do. But the fact is, is that what Sharon has done since then has not made the situation any easier on the ground.
WEXLER: Chairman Arafat...
ZOGBY: What America should do is provide a different form of leadership that holds out to the Palestinians something more. Mitchell is important.
WEXLER: Everyone's always using excuses. Everyone's always looking to make excuses for Yasser Arafat. Yasser Arafat chose to import 50 tons of ammunitions, to engage in a relationship with Iran. That wasn't to make peace. That was to make terrorism.
(CROSSTALK)
WEXLER: Fatah is now no different than Hamas. That's not a blunder.
BLITZER: All right, let's let Jim Zogby respond to that.
ZOGBY: Look. Look. Look. Look. Look. Number one, the story is still out on this weapon situation, and frankly it is stupid and evil whoever did it. But the fact is, is that Israel is the most highly militarized country in the world with F-16s, helicopter gun ships, and the most sophisticated tanks, and they're killing people every single day. Five times more Palestinians have died in the last year than Israelis. That is evil on both sides, but we don't have right now an American leader who can say to Israel, stop the killing...
BLITZER: Unfortunately, gentlemen.
ZOGBY: And say to the Palestinians, stop the killing.
BLITZER: We have to leave it there.
ZOGBY: It's only a one-sided story.
BLITZER: We'll have both of you back. Jim Zogby, Robert Wexler, thanks for joining us. We'll be right back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Last week, Secretary of State Colin Powell traveled to Afghanistan. It was the first visit to that country by a U.S. Secretary of State in many years.
The trip was made amid incredibly tight security. Now, NEWSWEEK Magazine reports a series of al Qaeda terrorist attacks, including one against Powell were thwarted by Afghan security forces.
"Newsweek" also reports that political opponents of the Afghan interim leader, Hamid Karzai, were planning other attacks the day of Powell's visit. Powell was asked about those reports earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: There's always a general level of threat wherever I travel, and there was nothing specific that day that it was of concern to me, and the Chairman and I just -- the Foreign Minister and I just discussed it coming down in the elevator, and he wasn't aware of any threat at that time either, nor do I think the other members of his administration were.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: A short while ago, I spoke on the telephone with Christian Caryl. He's the "Newsweek" correspondent who wrote the story on the possible plot against Secretary Powell.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Christian Caryl, tell us the story. What happened in Kabul during Secretary Powell's visit that potentially could have endangered him?
CHRISTIAN CARYL, "NEWSWEEK": Well, Wolf, the interesting thing is that there were a whole number of different things going on. In one incident, opponents of the present interim government in Afghanistan were preparing what appeared to have been rocket and bomb attacks against the Presidential Palace, which Colin Powell was scheduled to visit. And then in a separate incident, some former al Qaeda people, at least this is what the Afghan intelligence officials were telling us, were planning to bring a bus filled with some kind of weapons, apparently chemical weapons, into Kabul. It's very hard to verify that independently, but that's what these officials were telling us.
BLITZER: Was there any point that Secretary Powell was, in your opinion, physically endangered?
CARYL: I find that very hard to assess. I doubt that he was in danger from these rockets, which were aimed at the Presidential Palace, because I think that was less of a specifically targeted attempt against Secretary of State Powell, than just a general attempt to show public opinion that there are opponents of the interim government out there.
As far as this alleged chemical weapons bus is concerned, that's much, much harder to assess, simply because the Afghan intelligence officials we spoke with said we aren't going to show this bus to the Americans. We weren't even really going to tell them about this part of the attack.
And without independently verifying their allegations of chemical weapons, it's a little hard to say for sure.
BLITZER: These opponents of the interim Afghan government, are they elements associated with al Qaeda and the Taliban or other opponents?
CARYL: Well as far as the rocket and bomb attacks were concerned, these were members of a fundamentalist Islamic group known as Hezb-e-Islami, which is not directly allied with the Taliban and al Qaeda but they supported the al Qaeda attacks against the United States after September 11. They're a very radical, angry people supported I part by Iran.
Now this chemical weapons bus, this alleged chemical weapons bus, that the Afghan intelligence officials showed us was supposedly an attack staged by al Qaeda itself. And, in fact, these officials told us that the bus itself belonged to a senior al Qaeda operative.
BLITZER: As you know, Hamid Karzai is getting ready to come to Washington to meet next week with President Bush. How much control does he have over all of Afghanistan?
CARYL: Well, I think his control over all of Afghanistan is rather limited at this point, simply because Afghanistan is divided up into a bunch of different sections, each with its own military commander, sometimes several commanders at once.
And Mr. Karzai could indeed get some leverage over these various commanders if he had money and if he had things to offer them. But at the moment, the money has not yet started to flow. Afghan public civil servants have gone, as I think you know now, for almost seven months without any salaries. And under those conditions, it is going to be very hard for him to exert his will over these commanders out in the provinces.
BLITZER: Christian Caryl of "Newsweek" magazine, thanks for that report. Appreciate it very much.
CARYL: Thank you, Wolf.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
And let's check some of today's "Newswire": A judge today sentenced Thomas Junta to six to 10 years in prison for the beating death of Michael Costin. The two men had fought over rough play at their sons' hockey practice. Junta's attorney is working on an appeal, but the prosecution says the sentence was fair.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN MCEVOY, ASSISTANT DISTRICT ATTORNEY: The events of July 5, 2000 have had a dramatic impact on everyone in this case. Two families have been traumatized. Two sets of children have lost their fathers. And, in the case of the Costin children, permanently. His sentence today of six to 10 years in state prison obviously will not bring Michael Costin back. But it does provide, I believe, a measure of justice to the Costin family, the Reading community and the public at large.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Junta was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter two weeks ago.
The school bus driver who took 13 children on a long, bizarre trip through two states legally owns about four dozens weapons. Police found a dozen handguns and 36 rifles during a search of Nuss' home earlier today. Otto Nuss made two court appearances today, the first in Maryland, where he waived his right to a hearing in that state and told a judge he is not insane. His attorney says Nuss says he was set up, but did not elaborate. Nuss was then taken to Philadelphia for a hearing.
A few of the children were back in class today in Oley Township, Pennsylvania. They ended up in Maryland yesterday after what was supposed to be a 15-minute trip turned into a five-hour journey. Some told the FBI they feared their 63-year-old driver was going to kill them. But other children described Nuss as grandfatherly and trusted him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL MAST, STUDENT: We went a different way and than we were supposed to. And we got lost a couple times, a lot of times. So he kept on asking us to come up and read a map to him. And he had Washington, D.C. circled. I was kind of more scared, but I kind of trusted him, too.
QUESTION: Why did you trust him?
MAST: Because he was nice to us before. And he bought us lunch and stuff. And he was just really nice, so I trusted him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: A semiautomatic rifle and 75 rounds of ammunition were found in the bus. Nuss is being charged with kidnapping and could face life in prison.
CNN's Deborah Feyerick joins us now from Exeter Township in Pennsylvania.
Deborah, you are covering this story. What are they saying about Otto Nuss and the weapons discovery where you are?
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, a very interesting reaction here, Wolf, because nobody really knows what the end goal of this very strange ride was.
But we're getting one story from the children who were on that bus yesterday. And we're also getting another story from FBI agents and prosecutors, one FBI agent saying that several of the students told him they were afraid that Mr. Nuss might kill them. However, the other children that we spoke to today said that, while they were a bit scared, they never felt that they were in any real danger.
Keep in mind that these kids got on and off the bus twice, once to use a restroom, another time to have lunch at Burger King. And that Mr. Nuss bought them. They never, as far we know, went up to anybody and told them that they were not supposed to be on that bus and certainly not heading down to Washington, D.C. They got back on the bus. And it wasn't until Mr. Nuss surrendered that anyone even knew where this bus was.
Now, Mr. Nuss did give FBI agents permission to search his home. They found 48 guns. All of these guns were legal. Some of them were collectors items. Some of them were hunting guns, Mr. Nuss being a very avid sportsman, according to one of the prosecutors and also according to neighbors, who said he loved hunting.
We spoke to one of the fathers of a child who was on the bus. And he said: Well, 48 guns does seem high, but in this area, it's not abnormal. We are smack dab in the middle of hunting country, so what do you expect? He said: If you had 48 guns in Manhattan, that might be something. But it would also be odd if you had a John Deere tractor -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Deborah, when Mr. Nuss says he may have been set up -- as you know, that bus wound up right outside of Washington, D.C. in Prince George's County heading towards Washington, D.C., presumably -- what does he mean? Is there any speculation about what he means when he might have been set up?
FEYERICK: Nobody knows what that means, not even his federal defender in Maryland who represented him. He gave that statement on behalf of his client.
The judge asked Mr. Nuss about medication he might be on, indicating maybe that was affecting why he was behaving so strangely. And Mr. Nuss looked at the judge and said, "I am not insane." So nobody knows exactly what he means by he was "set up." We do know that he had only been driving a bus with this company for just one year. Prior to that, he had been working for a pie company.
BLITZER: OK, Deborah Feyerick, you'll be all over that story.
Thanks again for that report.
And should a pilot's opinion count? Coming up: the plane one captain doesn't want his family to fly.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
Some American Airlines pilots are voicing concern about a particular plane in the company's fleet. About a dozen pilots are spearheading a petition drive, with the goal of grounding the Airbus A-300, the plane involved in November's crash in New York. They are asking fellow pilots this: "Are we completely comfortable putting our friends and family on an A-300? If the answer to that question is not a resounding yes, then logic would lead a well-trained pilot to conclude that no one else should be flying on them either."
The petition suggests the planes should be grounded until a better way of testing the tail section is developed. Investigators say the tail section of Flight 587 fell off, although it is unclear if that caused the crash. American says the pilots are well-intentioned, but don't know enough about the investigation to make an informed conclusion.
Joining us now with a closer look at this safety debate is a man who has been covering such issues for 15 years. Jim McKenna is a member of the Aviation Safety Alliance. He is also a former editor of "Aviation Weekly."
Thanks, Jim, joining us.
So what's your reaction to what these pilots want?
JIM MCKENNA, AVIATION SAFETY ALLIANCE: I think the pilots are frustrated by the public face that has been put on the investigation.
It's far too early to make a judgment that the plane is not safe and it should be grounded. But the public perception has been that everybody is focused on something that the pilots did wrong. And nobody in the investigation is at that point of eliminating mechanical or airplane problems and focusing on the pilots committing some kind of error that killed all those people.
BLITZER: American Airlines does have a statement and I want to put it up on the screen so our viewers can read it: "We believe the pilots who have signed this petition are well-intentioned and share American's total commitment to safety, but they lack the scope of information necessary to reach a fully informed conclusion about the Airbus and the progress of the NTSB's investigation," which I -- it sounds like a reasonable statement from American Airlines.
MCKENNA: And it is a reasonable statement. All the parties to the investigation, the National Transportation Safety Board, the FAA, the manufacturer, the French government, none of them have said: We have got a serious problem. We need to put the airplanes on the ground until we find out how to fix the problem.
But everybody is looking at the possibility that there is some hidden flaw that nobody could predict or...
BLITZER: We've got a model of an A-300 over there. Show us what these particular pilots who are concerned about the tail section, what the problem might be.
MCKENNA: Well, the problem is simply this. When the airplane was flying through the air, it encountered some turbulence and it began to rock a little bit and then started to slip this way. At that point, this big section, the vertical fin, broke off the airplane.
And when that happened, the plane basically became uncontrollable. It snapped over in a roll and went straight down into the ground. That part simply should not break off the airplane. There is no circumstance under which the pilot should be able to put so much load on that tail that it is going to break off. The investigators are trying to figure out if there's something wrong with design or if there is something wrong that was a flaw buried in the tail that nobody detected during previous inspections that resulted in that problem.
BLITZER: Now, if you were to test every A-300 to see if there is some sort of flaw in there, that's a complicated, difficult procedure.
MCKENNA: It is a complicated and difficult procedure. This tail is made out of composite material. Basically, it's carbon graphite fibers that are woven together and embedded in a very resilient, tough glue. And it provides a great deal of strength at much lighter weight than a metal tail would be.
The problem is that we know how metals behave. We know how metals break. We know how they fatigue. We don't know how these materials behave over time. Now, Airbus argues that, once that tail is certified as good to go at the factory, it can fly for the life of the airplane. Composites experts are not so sure. They want to get in there and find out what happens after 13 years in airline service to that tail. And is there anything that degrades the strength of the tail to the point where it could have caused this crash?
BLITZER: Bottom line, you would still fly on an A-300?
MCKENNA: I would still fly on an A-300.
BLITZER: Jim McKenna, thanks for joining us.
MCKENNA: Thank you.
BLITZER: Appreciate it.
And his top concern is the war on terrorism, but do the people see eye to eye with President Bush? Coming up: the national mood swing. Also: the improvised ski jump that scared everyone on the slopes.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
President Bush wants to shore up financial support for the U.S. Coast Guard and says his next budget will reflect that commitment. In Maine today, the president promised a big financial boost for homeland security. He says wants that money to trickle down to the agencies that need it most.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've asked for a doubling of homeland security funds to $38 billion a year, money that will be spent to make sure that the federal government and the state government and the local governments. And I know some mayors are here--work in a cooperative way to make sure that our first responders, the police, the fire, the emergency medical teams, have the best equipment, the best training, the best ability to communicate with each other to protect the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: President Bush still enjoys overwhelming approval; 77 percent, according to the latest CNN/"TIME" magazine poll. But it's down five points from December and 10 points from two months ago; 63 percent say domestic issues will weigh more heavily on their minds than national security when they cast their votes for Congress in November.
The president's handling of September 11 and measured progress in Afghanistan may be what is strengthening his high approval rating. But, as his father learned painfully, victory on the battlefield does not necessarily mean victory on Election Day. The nation's priorities can change quickly, especially when people are out of work.
Our senior White House correspondent John King once again explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): League night means a full house at the Strike N Spares Lanes in suburban St. Louis. And at the moment, Cynthia Cole (ph) is worried most that her average has slipped a few points of late. She just found full-time work after a year-long search and is nervous about the economy. Yet she is upbeat. More tolerant is one way she describes the state of the Union 4 1/2 months after the day that changed everything.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think 9/11, it helped a lot of them, because they realized that all of us have to work together in order to make this come out right.
KING: This is a blue-collar crowd, mostly Al Gore backers in the last campaign. But Democrat Jeanette Calanan (ph) is glad Republican George W. Bush was the president on the morning of September 11.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think that Gore would have handled the pressure of all of this.
KING: High marks for wartime leadership hardly mean Mr. Bush has won these folks over. Most say they are not paying too close attention to the debate over tax cuts and deficit spending back in Washington, but the economy is a major worry. It tops Cheryl Knollinger's (ph) worry list, because more colleagues in state government are about to lose their jobs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just heard today that there is going to be a lot of state employees laid off. And I don't know what the reason is for that. I just know that they need to cut money and that's where they're going to cut it at.
KING: The lanes are busy, the Rams advancing in the playoffs. It all seems almost normal again -- here, too. Visits to the St. Louis Science Center dropped 10 percent in the month or so after the attacks -- back to normal now.
Ceramics class is part of the routine at the Aften (ph) Senior Center before and after September 11. Most here remember Pearl Harbor and want the president to see the war on terrorism through to the end. Over cards, Kmart's bankruptcy filing comes up. And Lily Fields (ph), to the surprise of no one at the table, would like to make a point.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They can say what they want to about Clinton's morals, but, by God, we had a better economy when he was in.
KING: Frank Blair (ph) says 8-year-old son Nick (ph) doesn't talk about September 11 anymore. But he worries because of an unforgettable moment on that unforgettable day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's tugging on my sleeve. He pulled me down next to him and he said, "Daddy, are we going to die?"
KING: Business is off a bit at the hardware store, but Blair trusts the president when it comes to the economy -- figures, in any event, things will bounce back in time. It's a good place to get the pulse of a community. And Blair, too, notices a difference born of September 11. Customers, he says, are more patient, more polite.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It has forced us to -- or at least for me to examine: How tolerant am I of people? Because this whole thing is all about hate. KING: Getting home for dinner more of a priority now, a team effort here. And before eating, a moment to reflect and remember that something so routine, so normal, is also something to be cherished.
UNIDENTIFIED FAMILY: Thank you, Jesus, for our food. Amen. Peace.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Peace.
KING: John King, CNN, Maryland Heights, Missouri.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: And what do you want to hear from President Bush's State of the Union address Tuesday night? You can tell us. Go to my Web page, CNN.com/Wolf. Click on "Contact us" and give us your comments. We will take them to the experts next week when we count down to the president's speech. And you can get a preview of the State of the Union address when the White House chief of staff, Andrew Card, joins me on "LATE EDITION" this Sunday at noon Eastern, 9:00 a.m. Pacific.
And coming up, hanging on by a thread: the skier who lost his grip. Watch this and stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Now checking these stories on today's "Newswire": Infamous ice skater Tonya Harding is looking for a new place to live. A Washington state judge has ordered Harding evicted from her home for failing to pay the rent. Harding showed up late for the court hearing, saying her car broke down.
Call it a ski jump of a different sort. A skier in Washington state somehow fell from a chairlift and dangled at 27 feet until rescue crews arrived. He dropped to safety onto a special tarp as his friends watched. The entire ordeal was captured on home video by a bystander.
And let's go to New York now and get a preview of "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE." That, of course, begins at the top of the hour. Kitty Pilgrim is sitting in for Lou tonight -- Kitty.
KITTY PILGRIM, "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE": Hi, Wolf.
Well, coming up tonight, the latest on the Enron scandal: A former Enron executive apparently commits suicide. And the White House orders a review of the government's Enron contracts. The White House is also considering what to do about Yasser Arafat. Pop stars and record companies are feuding. We'll tell you why. And Wall street ends the week higher -- all of that and more at the top of the hour -- now back to Wolf in Washington.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Kitty.
And coming up: a scientific twist to a Biblical account. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: We want to let you know about a new show debuting tomorrow. "Next@CNN" gives you the latest gee-whiz news on technology, science, the environment and space. Watch it Saturday at 1:00 p.m. Eastern. On Sunday, of course, it replays at 4:00 p.m. Eastern. Watch it.
If a prominent researcher is right, the history books will have to be rewritten when it comes to King Herod, at least the last chapter, anyway. After examining ancient historical records, the doctor says the ancient king died of kidney disease, not gonorrhea or acute syphilis, as many experts have speculated over the years. The Bible depicts Herod as a ruthless leader who ordered the execution of his wife and children. Said the researcher: "Herod had personality problems before he got sick, which may have only worsened his condition.
I'll be back here in one hour in the CNN "WAR ROOM" -- among my guests: the former U.S. ambassador to Pakistan, Robert Oakley. And this note: The White House chief of staff, Andrew Card, will be among my guests Sunday on "LATE EDITION." That's at noon Eastern.
Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. CNN's coverage of America's new war continues with "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE." That begins right now.
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