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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Hamid Karzai Visits Washington
Aired January 28, 2002 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Now on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: Afghanistan's new leader thanks the United States for helping to free his country, and promises to do his part.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Do you have any idea where Osama bin Laden is?
HAMID KARZAI, INTERIM AFGHAN LEADER: I wish I knew. I would arrest him straightaway.
BLITZER: And if you found him, would you hand him over to the U.S.?
KARZAI: Yes, I've made that pledge and I will stay true to it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: I'll have a conversation with Hamid Karzai.
CNN is there as U.S. special forces and Afghan troops team up to battle heavily-armed al Qaeda fighters holed up in a hospital.
Kidnapped. The U.S. works with Pakistan to search for a missing "Wall Street Journal" reporter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Putting forth every effort, intelligence and law enforcement, and with their military, to try to resolve the fate of Mr. Pearl.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: No bumbling amateur -- tracing the steps of shoe bomb suspect Richard Reid, investigators are impressed. But who was he working with?
Two U.S. Navy vessels collide in the Arabian Sea. It's not first time for the USS Greeneville.
Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. They have been through enough already. Now victims of the September 11th terror attacks are getting hate mail. In a moment, you'll hear why. First, the "News Alert."
President Bush pledges to build a lasting partnership with Afghanistan. Mr. Bush welcomed the Afghan interim leader, Hamid Karzai, to the White House earlier today. Specifically, Mr. Bush said the United States will help train an Afghan police force and military, but he ruled out a request for U.S. peacekeepers. We'll have much more on this in just a moment.
American and Afghan troops stormed an Afghan hospital today, killing six al Qaeda fighters who have been holed up there for two months. There were no casualties among the Americans. Five Afghan government soldiers were wounded.
The U.S. Navy submarine Greeneville has been involved in another collision. It happened yesterday when the Greeneville hit a U.S. Navy surface ship in the Arabian Sea. There were no injuries. Last year the Greeneville rammed a Japanese vessel, killing nine Japanese.
An Ecuadoran jetliner with 92 people onboard crashed today in the Andes Mountains in southern Colombia. There's no word on survivors. An airline official says the Boeing 727 went down in an area controlled by rebels.
More now on the White House meeting earlier today between President Bush and Hamid Karzai, the new interim leader of Afghanistan. A man most Americans had never heart of before the September terrorist attacks, Karzai is now on a mission desperately seeking needed aid and long-term security for his war-ravaged country. And he's pledging to give President Bush something in return.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): Hamid Karzai came to the White House already knowing what Washington was willing to put up in cash. Instead, his wish list included human assets: a large U.S. presence in a peacekeeping force, and U.S. troops to train Afghanistan's military. Karzai got half of what he wanted.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Peacekeepers from around the world are helping provide security on the streets of Kabul. The United States will continue to work closely with these forces, and provide support for their mission. We will also support programs to train new police officers and to help establish and train an Afghanistan national military.
BLITZER: In return, Karzai gave President Bush the commitment he needs to deliver on America's promises.
KARZAI: This joint struggle against terrorism should go to the absolute end of it. We must finish them, we must bring them out of their caves and their hideouts. And we promise we will do that.
BLITZER (on camera): Do you have any idea where Osama bin Laden is?
(END VIDEOTAPE) You can find out Hamid Karzai's answer to that question and much more, hear more about what kind of support he wants from the United States, in my special interview with the Afghan leader. That will be later this hour.
And President Bush says the ultimate legal fate of Afghan war detainees being held at a U.S. base in Cuba is still under consideration. Mr. Bush commented on the issue after meeting with his top national security advisers today. But the president said he's sure of one thing: the al Qaeda and Taliban fighters will not, repeat, not be treated as prisoners of war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I'm looking at the legalities involved with the Geneva Convention. In either case, however I make my decision, these detainees will be well-treated. We are not going call them prisoners of war in either case. And the reason why is al Qaeda is not a known military. These are killers. These are terrorists.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: In recent days there have been widespread reports that some Bush administration officials, including Secretary of State Colin Powell, are urging the president to at least consider granting the detainees a hearing to determine whether they should be ultimately classified as POWs.
And turning now to that "Wall Street Journal" correspondent who's missing in Pakistan. An unknown group in Pakistan is claiming that it's holding the American journalist, Daniel Pearl. An e-mail message with these photos of Pearl was sent to news organizations yesterday. The group accuses Pearl of being a CIA officer.
Both "The Wall Street Journal" and the CIA firmly deny that. The group identified itself as the National Movement for the Restoration of Pakistani Sovereignty. It said Pearl is being held in retaliation for the detainment of Pakistanis at that U.S. Naval base in Cuba by the FBI here in the United States. Pearl has been missing since Wednesday. The Bush administration says it's doing what it can to obtain his release.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD ARMITAGE, DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE: The United States has been working closely with our friends in Pakistan, and they are putting forth every effort in intelligence and law enforcement, and with their military, to try and resolve the fate of Mr. Pearl. And Secretary Powell will be speaking with General Musharraf this morning to express appreciation for those efforts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Joining us now to talk a little bit more about Pearl's apparent kidnaping and the group claiming responsibility, the military analyst, David Isby. David, thanks for joining us. What do you know about this group alleging that it has Pearl in custody?
DAVID ISBY, MILITARY ANALYST: Well, the name is a front. It has no track record. Current wisdom is that this is -- what it's a front for is Harakat al-Unsar, or Mujaheddin, a long-established Pakistani- based terrorist group.
BLITZER: This is a group that has a base in the Karachi area, in the southern part of Pakistan.
ISBY: It's been involved in Kashmir, but it certainly had a strong presence in Karachi. The fighting, violence in Karachi goes back well into the 1980s. And it does indeed have a strong presence there.
BLITZER: Pearl was kidnapped in Karachi, as he was about to go and meet some people who supposedly had called him, speaking English well, saying they wanted to talk to him. And he went and he disappeared since Wednesday. Is there a history of this group kidnaping western journalists?
ISBY: Kidnaping westerners, taking hostages, unfortunately killing them. Most notably, this was done by Harakat in Kashmir in 1995. So I'm afraid there's very much reason to be concerned here.
BLITZER: And this is not a situation then, as occurs in Central or South America, where people are kidnapped, westerners are kidnaped, businessmen, mostly, in an effort to obtain money.
ISBY: No. And that certainly has been known to happen in Pakistan as well, especially in the tribal areas in the northwest frontier province. But this, I'm afraid, appears to be very different than that. It appears to be ideologically motivated, rather than revenue or just to make a statement.
BLITZER: It would appear that the government of President Musharraf of Pakistan and his law enforcement and security services would have the best shot at freeing this journalist.
ISBY: That is key. Musharraf and the ISI, Pakistani intelligence, have links, have people inside most of these groups. But they have been cracking down on them pretty hard in recent months, so some of these links may have been strained. Indeed, people have been rounded up. So it's going to be hard for them to do that.
BLITZER: Does this signal that the Pakistani government has a whole wave of potentially terrorist rebels on its hand, that may be going after President Musharraf in the form of this journalist?
ISBY: No, but it does show that many of these people who backed the Taliban may be angry not just with the United States, but with Musharraf for not sticking with the Taliban and now for supporting a government in Afghanistan that seems pro-Western and certainly not Islamic revolutionary.
BLITZER: So the bottom line, as far as you can see the situation, facing the fate of Mr. Pearl, is not very upbeat right now. ISBY: No, I'm afraid not.
BLITZER: OK, David Isby, thanks for joining us, as usual.
And we have some new information now on the alleged shoe bomber, Richard Reid. It concerns the training he may have received before he allegedly tried to blow up an American Airlines jetliner on a flight from Paris to Miami. Our senior international correspondent, Sheila MacVicar, is covering these developments. She joins us now live from London.
Sheila, thank you very much. Apparently there has been a shift in the law enforcement community. You are being told that some are now more impressed with Richard Reid's skills. What has changed?
SHEILA MACVICAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, if you remember, Wolf, the first images we had of Richard Reid when he was taken off that American Airlines flight on December 22nd, he looked disheveled. Passengers spoke about being aware of him, him drawing attention to himself, because of his appearance. Now, we know, of course, that he had been denied boarding by American Airlines the day before, in large part because suspicions had been aroused.
Well, after five weeks investigation, it's becoming clear to European investigators and intelligence sources here that they now believe that Richard Reid -- everything they have learned about him and his time in Europe -- was very skilled and knew very much what he was doing. They have traced his travels, both in Europe and beyond. And in every case, they say, the image that they get is of someone who knew precisely what he was doing, and in the words of one European intelligence source, "made no mistakes" -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Sheila, the Richard Reid -- he apparently had been on some radar screens even before the shoe bomb incident. Take us through some of the stops he made in Europe, beginning in Amsterdam. As we know, he was stopped by El Al security before boarding that flight to Tel Aviv, although he eventually, of course, did board.
MACVICAR: That was back in July, July 6th. And Richard Reid bought his ticket at the airport in Amsterdam, planning to fly to Tel Aviv on El Al. And in part because he had bought his ticket so suddenly before he flew, he was profiled by El Al security. They do do profiling, and they pulled him aside. He was interrogated and searched for two hours.
And intelligence sources say that during that questioning -- and if you've ever flown El Al, Wolf, you know that it can be a very intensive process, and at times, it can feel like a very intrusive process. He never once, they say, showed anything other than complete self-control, self-containment. He remained very soft-spoken. And although they didn't like his look and they had a lot of questions about his -- and although they put an air marshal beside him on that flight to Tel Aviv, they let him board the plane.
Of course, when he got to Israel, there's very little else known precisely about what he did there, we know that he eventually crossed over back to Egypt. When he reappears in Europe later on this fall, he's in Belgium where, people say again, intelligence sources who have looked at his work and what he was doing there say this is a man who just drew no attention to himself. He spent his time along. He was very quiet. He spent his time in Brussels, waiting. And that's where they say he made no mistakes.
The same when he got to Paris. They say that they can find very few traces of him there, in the sense that he was not doing things that would draw attention to himself. But, Wolf, what's really of concern to investigators here in Europe and, obviously, of course to the FBI as well, are the nature of the shoe bombs that he is alleged to have been wearing in an alleged attempt to bring down that American Airlines flight.
These shoes, they are telling us, were very sophisticated. A device that combined two kinds of explosives -- one, very much a homemade device, the other, a more sophisticated explosive. They know because of a palm print and a hair that they have found on those explosives that Reid is not the manufacturer of the shoes. And so they know that in addition to Richard Reid, who they have in custody, there is a bomb maker out there somewhere that is very skilled -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Sheila MacVicar, thank you very much. And I am familiar with the El Al -- the searches that go on before you board the airline. I've flown that airline many times. Thank you very much for that report. And you can find out more about the suspected shoe bomber, Richard Reid, and the e-mail he sent from a hotel computer. That's tonight on "THE POINT." That's at 8:30 p.m. Eastern, 5:30 on the West Coast.
And in Afghanistan, a long hospital standoff involving heavily- armed al Qaeda fighters came to an end today, after a fierce battle. The assault on a Kandahar hospital was carried out by both American and Afghan government soldiers. CNN's Ben Wedeman has our exclusive report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (VOICE-OVER): A U.S. special forces sharp shooter fires at a hospital ward, attempting to dislodge six al Qaeda members who had held out since mid-December, refusing to surrender. Officially, this was an Afghan operation with close support from U.S. special forces. By the looks of it, very close indeed.
The al Qaeda fighters, reportedly all Arab, refused to leave the prison ward of the Kandahar's hospital after the Taliban fled the city, threatening to blow themselves up if anyone attempted to take them into custody. Afghan tribal leaders claim they tried, unsuccessfully, for weeks to persuade the holdouts to give up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We gave them the ultimatum that they can surrender and we will take care of them, they will be safe. They were not listening. They were not talking. They were not willing to cooperate. WEDEMAN: Last week CNN crew photographed Afghan fighters being trained in close-quarter combat by U.S. special forces, who declined to appear on camera. This is exactly the kind of training needed for the attack on the hospital ward where the al Qaeda members were holed up. The assault began early in the morning. Until mid-afternoon, sporadic blasts -- intense machine gun fire, echoed around the hospital. An Afghan fighter on the building ledge cautiously attempted to approach the ward.
The fighting was intense, raging from room to room. The al Qaeda members choosing to die rather than surrender. When the battle ended, the Afghan fighters emerged triumphant. Inside the ward, grisly signs of the fight and the bodies, all six al Qaeda members, killed.
KHALID PASHTOON, AFGHAN SPOKESMAN: Finally, they were all dead. They were fighting until the last minute of their blood.
WEDEMAN: U.S. special forces, normally intensely camera shy, stood guard outside the hospital when it was all over.
(on camera): The assault lasted about 12 hours, successfully eliminating at least one very prominent pocket of al Qaeda resistance. Ben Wedeman, CNN, Kandahar.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And, he survived the September 11th attacks only to be at Ground Zero of another.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I felt and heard the blast. And the first thing in my mind was to find my wife and daughters.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Coming up, one man's double dose of terror.
Later, the vice president taking a stand. Hear about his fight in John King's one-on-one interview.
And Hamid Karzai's call to recruits -- why he'll need more than a few good men and women to help keep his country safe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
So how many American troops would you like to see participate?
KARZAI: The number is not something that I can suggest now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. An American man is recovering from injuries he sustained in yesterday's suicide bombing in Israel. But this isn't his only survivor story. He also made it out alive after the World Trade Center attacks in September. Our Jerusalem bureau chief, Mike Hanna, has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIKE HANNA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Shocked and dazed, but hanging on to his camera, American Mark Sokolow was one of the many injured in Israel's latest terror bomb attack.
MARK SOKOLOW, TWO-TIME TERROR VICTIM: I felt and heard the whoosh, the blast. And the first thing in my mind was to find my wife and daughters.
HANNAH: His wife and two daughters were also injured in the blast, detonated, police believe, by a Palestinian woman. She died, along with an 81-year-old Israeli bystander. More than 100 people were injured.
SOKOLOW: Right now, I feel very lucky that my injuries were, for the most part, superficial. And my children and my wife a little bit more serious, with her leg, but she will be OK. So I feel very fortunate that someone, God, is looking over us to make sure that we're OK.
HANNAH: Despite the experience, Mark Sokolow has no regrets about bringing his family to Israel for a holiday.
SOKOLOW: I think it's critical now that Jews from all over, American Jews and Jews from all over the world, to show their support of Israel, come to Israel, visit Israel. We spent nine days of touring different areas, and you can't let events like this deter people from coming to our land.
HANNAH: Remarkably, this is the second terror attack that the 43-year-old lawyer from Woodmere, New York has survived. On September 11th last year, Mark Sokolow escaped from the World Trade Center before the Twin Towers collapsed.
SOKOLOW: In retrospect, I was a lot luckier then than we were now. On the other hand, I am also very lucky to have been through this, and everyone is safe.
HANNAH: Mike Hanna, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And after September 11th, the nation seemed unified as perhaps never before with an unprecedented outpouring for those who had lost their loved ones. But the difficult issue of victim compensation has proven to be bitterly divisive. A government plan to award an average of some $1.6 million, tax-free, to anyone physically injured, or relatives of those killed, is at the heart of the debate. "The Washington Post" reports that Stephen Push, who lost his wife in the attacks, founded a support group.
He says he has received dozens of nasty e-mails about the criticism of the plan. One, for example, reads like this: "We feel your grief, really. I'm just wondering if we have to feel your greed too?" Push says what this is turning into is really ugly, and it's really shameful. Now joining us is Anthony Gardner. He's chairman of another victims' support group. He's received mail that has gone through the entire spectrum of sympathy, both to outrage. He joins us now live from New York.
Thank you very much for joining us. Give us the rundown. What are the complaints about what you are doing?
ANTHONY GARDNER, WTC UNITED FAMILY GROUP: Basically I think there's a lot of misinformation out there. And people don't understand that it's not about greed at all. I mean, the rights of the families has greatly been restricted by this legislation, in terms of what we can recover if we chose to litigate. And I think it's easy to just, you know, villainize the families and say it's about greed rather than really try to inform yourself of the inadequacies, and really channel that energy and concern to who really should be the person receiving it, and that's Mr. Feinberg.
We held an informative rally last week on the 17th with the help of Governor Pataki. Mayor Bloomberg was also in attendance, Elliot Spitzer (ph). And they echoed our concerns, and they were there for us. It was an informative rally to addresses the inadequacies of the compensation program, to inform the families of the inadequacies, as well as the American family.
And it really saddens me that after that event -- we brought 1,000 family members together, it was a very positive event. We got a lot of information out there. And it really troubles me that a week later, it's as if that event never happened. It's as if we're going back to pointing fingers at the family, saying it's about greed. These people have endured -- we have endured a horrible tragedy that we have to face every day. And we don't care about money. We care about justice. And it's just a slap in the face.
I don't know how many e-mails Stephen Push has received. I've only received three or four. One today in particularly, that was extremely disturbing. It was vulgar and offensive, and it was just unwarranted. I mean, I've been going out since this happened to advocate for the rights of families. I've gone out and spoken about the victims' compensation program maybe once or twice, because it's an issue that needs to be addressed.
But I've seen Mr. Feinberg with my own eyes speak to people at meetings and say, you know, that you -- to a women who has lost her husband who is now ridden with cancer, that you will be one of those people that slips through the cracks. I've seen him say that. I've seen him be confrontational with a man that just lost his son, who was simply saying, you know, you really need to examine, reevaluate how you determine the economic calculations.
BLITZER: But Anthony, isn't Mr. Feinberg restricted to what the law of the land is, namely, what the Congress passed and what the president signed into law, which delineated specifically what he could and could not do, as far as providing compensation to the victims? GARDNER: Mr. Feinberg has a lot more power than he admits to. He has the right -- nowhere in the regulations does it say that the presumptive amount for noneconomic loss, pain and suffering, has to stand at the amount that it's at right now. That's Mr. Feinberg. Mr. Feinberg points a lot of fingers. And we have people like Congressman King, who you supported us in our efforts to educate the families on the inadequacies. He's telling us to go back to Congressman King and basically turn to him for an answer as to why the regulations are the way they are.
He has lot more power than he will admit. We have pleaded with him to go out and get -- countless newspapers and television broadcasts, the $1.6 million figure is repeatedly mentioned. And that -- that every family on average will receive that figure, and that is not true. And he has the power to say that this isn't true, that some families will stand to get nothing.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: I was going to say, some of the people who are complaining about the benefits that the compensation that the victims from the World Trade Center and the September 11th terror attacks are getting, are obviously very impressive. But victims of earlier terrorist attacks, whether in Oklahoma City or Pan Am 103, they're not going to be getting that kind of compensation.
GARDNER: Not to take away from those families at all, but there has never been an event of this magnitude before, and Congress stepped in from the beginning. In the beginning when we were going out -- you know, I spent two weeks with my family looking for my brother in hospitals, hoping and pleading that he would -- and praying that he was alive. So Congress, while families were doing that, put together this legislation as an airline bailout.
And basically, I'd like to believe that it was a business/compassionate move. Compassionate in that, it was to provide money to families in an expedient manner, so we didn't have to endure the process of litigation. But basically, people need to understand that our rights were taken away. Oklahoma City victims, their rights were never taken away. If they chose to litigate, if they could find a party to litigate against, they were certainly privy to do that. And there is lot of misinformation out there about Oklahoma City families.
I mean, we're doing a bereavement teleconference this Thursday night with families from Oklahoma City, and they have assured me that 99 percent of those families are on our side. They feel we're entitled to this compensation, and they want to see that justice is served.
BLITZER: Anthony Gardner, good luck to you. Sorry about the loss of your brother. We'll continue this conversation on another occasion. Appreciate your joining you us.
GARDNER: Thank you very much. BLITZER: Thank you. And it's a ride you couldn't take after September 11th, until now. Coming up, a remarkable reopening near the site of the World Trade Center.
Also, the vice president's strong feelings about protecting the office of the presidency -- what he told our John King.
And, is Afghanistan's leader going after the leader of al Qaeda? We'll find out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's get a check on this hour's headlines and this "News Alert": There is no word on survivors in the crash of an Ecuadorian plane carrying 92 people that went down in the mountains of Southern Colombia. The Boeing 727 was headed to the Ecuadorian city of Tulcan on the Colombian border after departing Quito. There pilot's last radio contact was routine, with no indications of any problems.
On the agenda today at the White House: a commitment to rebuilding Afghanistan. President Bush met with the country's interim government chairman, Hamid Karzai, in the Rose Garden. Both leaders vowed to work together to establish a stable and peaceful Afghanistan.
A 12-hour assault on al Qaeda fighters holed up in a Kandahar hospital has ended with all six of the men dead. U.S. special forces teamed up with Afghan troops in an attempt to dislodge the fighters. A spokesman for the Kandahar governor says every attempt was made to allow their peaceful surrender. The six heavily armed fighters had been hunkered down in the facility since mid-December, threatening to blow themselves up if approached.
President Bush says the detainees being held at the U.S. Naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba won't be treated as prisoners of war, but says he is still considering their legal ramifications of whether the Geneva Convention should apply to them. The administration considers the detainees unlawful combatants and is working to determine if the Geneva Conventions apply to those in that classification.
And now to the collapse of the energy giant Enron. The White House is defending its refusal to turn over to the GAO information about an energy task force meeting last year. Some Enron executives attended that meeting, which was presided over by the vice president, Dick Cheney.
Our Senior White House correspondent John King has been talking with the vice president. And he joins us now live.
What did he say, John?
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, a blossoming political inquiry here in Washington.
But if they are nervous here at the White House, the vice president did not show that today. He was quite calm, but also quite defiant in our interview. You mentioned the GAO, the General Accounting Office. That's the investigative arm of the Congress. It wants all the records of that Cheney task force that formulated the Bush energy policy. It wants to know who he met with, including Enron officials, other energy offices.
The vice president made note, of course, that he met with the environmentalists as well, but the vice president refusing to turn those documents over. He says any administration must have the right to meet in private with people as it develops policy. This is a dispute probably headed to court, probably by the end of this week -- some Republicans a bit nervous about the potential political fallout, but the vice president insisted today the administration will not yield.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We went through this debate with Henry Waxman and the GAO last summer. We said: "No, we're not going to give it to you." And the GAO at that point went quiet. They kind of backed off, because I think they know they got have a weak case. All of the attorneys that have reviewed this in the Justice Department, White House Counsel's Office and so forth have concluded the GAO doesn't have the authority they are seeking to exercise here.
What has happened now, since Enron collapse, is the suggestion that somehow now the GAO ought to come back and get that information. But the collapse of Enron in no way shape or form affects the basic principle we are trying to protect here. This is about the ability of future presidents and vice presidents to do their job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Now, Democrats want to make an issue of this. They say the administration is too tight with big business, too tight with the energy industry, including Enron. Most Republicans on Capitol Hill back the administration up on the point that a president and vice president should be able to have secret meetings -- some nervousness, though, because this is a congressional election year.
But when it comes to this fight, it is very clear the vice president has the support of the man who matters most.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There are some on Capitol Hill who want to politicize this issue. This is not a political issue. It is a business issue that this nation must deal with. And you know, Enron made contributions to a lot of people around Washington, D.C. And if they came to this administration looking for help, they didn't find any.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Now, the GAO says it will probably file suit by the end of this week unless the administration compromises. The vice president again made clear there will be no compromise. He called this -- quote -- "a classic Washington feeding frenzy" -- Wolf.
BLITZER: That's the key phrase you use, John -- unless the administration finds a way to find a compromise. Some have said there may be some wiggle room out of this, some way to hand over certain information without compromising the principle that the White House is determined to hold firm on, that the president and the vice president can receive confidential advice.
KING: The vice president says there is no more wiggle room, in his view. He says -- when he was asked specifically, "Did you discuss Enron's financial situation when you met with the Enron official?," he answered that question. He said the answer was no. He said he has told them how many numbers, how many total meetings there were with Enron officials.
But, as to the substance, he says the rest of that is out of bounds because it has nothing to do with anything that went wrong at Enron. He says he will not answer those questions. And he says again that he will take this to court. And he voiced quite strong confidence that they will win the case.
BLITZER: John King, at the White House, thank you very much.
And this programming note: You can see more of John's interview with the vice president tonight at 8:00 Eastern, "LIVE FROM THE WHITE HOUSE."
And let me know what you want to hear from President Bush's State of the Union address. Go to my Web page: CNN.com/Wolf. Send me your comments and we will get them to our guests tomorrow when we preview the speech. CNN's State of the Union coverage, by the way, will begin tomorrow night, 8:00 Eastern, 5:00 Pacific. Aaron Brown, Judy Woodruff and Jeff Greenfield will lead our coverage.
And now checking these stories on today's "Newswire: The wife of the former Enron chairman and CEO, Kenneth Lay, is defending her husband. In a television interview this morning, Linda Lay said her husband is -- quote -- "honest, decent, a moral human being who would do absolutely nothing wrong." She also said her family is trying to avoid personal bankruptcy. Kenneth Lay resigned as head of Enron last week after the company collapsed, wiping out many workers' life savings.
And the U.S. Supreme Court justice, Anthony Kennedy, unveiled a new initiative created to teach high schoolers values and morals. Kennedy and the first lady, Laura Bush, visited a Washington school for the first demonstration of the program. Kennedy says he was disappointed by what he called lack of moral outrage following the September 11 attacks.
The woman who created the memorable children's book character Pippi Longstocking has died. Writer Astrid Lindgren was 94. She wrote more than 100 books, short stories and plays based on the memories of her childhood in Sweden. Pippi Longstocking was one of the popular and lasting creations. Afghanistan's leader comes to Washington, but will he get what he came for? Coming up: Hamid Karzai's wish list and thoughts on Osama bin Laden.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
The Afghan interim leader, Hamid Karzai, today presided over a ceremony very close to his heart. His country's black, red and green flag was raised outside Afghanistan's reopened embassy here in Washington. Extensive repairs are under way at the facility, which was closed in 1997 after the Taliban took over the government in Kabul.
One day before his meeting with President Bush, I sat down with Hamid Karzai for his first television interview since arriving in Washington as chairman of Afghanistan's interim government. He spoke about his vision for his country's future and the role he would like the United States to play in it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): Surrounded by aides and Secret Service agents, Hamid Karzai bounced up the back stairs at Georgetown University's McDonough Gymnasium.
HAMID KARZAI, INTERIM AFGHAN LEADER: You want me to put my hat on or just...
BLITZER (on camera): Whatever way you are comfortable.
(voice-over): He has come to Washington to win support for his devastated nation. And that means sitting down with journalists. His main point: Please don't abandon Afghanistan.
KARZAI: When we began this war against terrorism in Afghanistan, and when your forces came there to help us, the people there, the Afghans, told you that are welcome, but don't leave us again like you did when the Soviets left.
So the Afghan people want to be with America in this struggle against terrorism to the end of it. But Afghans also want their country to be made, their country to stand back on its own feet. So our people, the Afghans, want America and the rest of the world to stay with us, to help us gain that stage, the stage of standing again on our own feet and running our country.
BLITZER (on camera): Will that require the United States not only making a commitment to you that it's willing to help you, but to take a leadership role in an international peacekeeping force in Afghanistan?
KARZAI: Yes, very much. And I must tell a story to prove this. When we began the work for the Afghan traditional council, Loya Jirga, in 1996, '97, I went to report this to the tribal chiefs in the southern city of Quetta in Pakistan. In that meeting, my own father was there as an elderly man.
And when I told him that the Taliban were running Afghanistan, that we must bring back the country to stability and self rule through the Loya Jirga, through the grand council, my father and the other elders there told me that, "Hamid, have you spoken with the American government on this?" I said, "No." They said, "Well, go and get us an agreement from the U.S., an approval from the U.S." I said, "Why?" They said, "Because we cannot do it on our own."
It has a leading role. It should play that leading role all over. And in Afghanistan, it has the role that it has played in the past when we were fighting the Soviets. And now the help that we receive from America to fight terrorism and with regard to the stability of Afghanistan for now into the future, it must play a continuous leading role, certainly.
BLITZER: Right now, the British are leading this force, with about 2,500 troops. There have been some suggestions that 30,000 might be necessary, with a robust U.S. presence. Is that what you want?
KARZAI: All the delegations, from the 22nd of December until last week, the day when I began to visit Turkey and other countries, all the delegations that came to see me, almost every day, almost every day -- no certainly every day -- all of them were saying: We are grateful to America for bringing us the independence that we had lost to terrorism.
All of them asked for increased U.S. presence and increase international presence, yes.
BLITZER: So, how many American troops would you like to see participate?
KARZAI: The number is not something that I can suggest now. It is something that the situation should determine. If you have stability, and if we have smooth running, we will probably not need lots of troops. But if things don't go well, if there is turmoil in the region, if the neighbors don't cooperate in a manner that we like, in a manner that is good for the stability, and if there are other conditions that are not so good for the overall peace in the country, then of course we will think of larger numbers.
But right now, things are fine. We will probably need an assurance. And if the situation demands increased presence, we will make it known. And we will let you know that.
BLITZER (voice-over): But the situation inside his country remains fragile. Firefights continue. Warlords effectively rule big parts of Afghanistan, fueled by a still widespread illegal drug trade. Karzai says he wants to disarm those warlords. KARZAI: More than U.S. officials, Afghans are concerned about warlords. They have suffered the consequences of having warlords, warlords that were trained by outsiders and brought on the Afghan people to create havoc in our country.
We must differentiate between a freedom fighter and a warlord. Those Afghans that fought for Afghanistan's liberation from the Soviets are freedom fighters. Those Afghans that fought against terrorism in Afghanistan are freedom fighters. Now, there are also people who are gun-runners, who force people, through their guns, to do things. Those are the people that we must take away from the streets and villages and cities of Afghanistan.
Those are the people that we are concerned with. And we are determined, absolutely determined, that we must free Afghanistan from those elements. The people of Afghanistan have asked me this repeatedly.
BLITZER: He also knows that a frustrated Bush administration would like to see Osama bin Laden found, dead or alive.
(on camera): Do you have any idea where Osama bin Laden is?
KARZAI: I wish I knew. I would arrest him straight away. But we are still looking for him.
BLITZER: And if you found him, would you hand him over to the U.S.?
KARZAI: Yes, I have made that pledge and I will stay true to it.
BLITZER: The same with Mullah Mohammed Omar?
KARZAI: The same with Mullah Omar.
BLITZER: Give him to the United States?
KARZAI: Criminals. Sure. Terrorists. No doubt. Our people will do that.
BLITZER: Do you know where he is, Omar?
KARZAI: If I knew, I would arrest him straight away. We tried to arrest him in the past weeks. Twice or thrice, we sent troops to various villages and various areas hoping he would be there.
BLITZER: Why is it so hard to find him?
KARZAI: He is one man. If he comes around Washington today and walks around the city of Washington, cuts his beard short, nobody would recognize him. We have never seen him. People don't know him. He is invisible. He is Mr. X.
BLITZER: The same with Osama bin Laden?
KARZAI: No, that man is identifiable. We have seen his pictures. We know how he looks. No, that's different.
BLITZER: But he could change his appearance as well.
KARZAI: Yes, by surgery, things like that. But, for a common man, the way he is, he can be identified. Mullah Omar, people don't know.
BLITZER: And as far as you know, they are still alive.
KARZAI: As far as I know, Mullah Omar is alive. About Osama, there are various reports: dead or alive or hiding, this or that. We don't know. What I know is that we are looking for both these persons. And if we arrest them, we will give them for trial.
BLITZER (voice-over): Many top U.S. officials seek Karzai as an historic figure, someone who can move Afghanistan away from its dark past. Karzai, only 44 years old, is anxious to do just that.
(on camera): What about you? Tell me about what your hopes, personal hopes, are in the months ahead. You have five months or so left.
KARZAI: First of all, we all want to have a very fair and representative Loya Jirga, our grand council, and let that representative Loya Jirga decide the future of Afghanistan, the leader, government.
If that Jirga calls me to continue my job, I will be honored. I will be very happy and I will continue. If they choose somebody else, I will respect their decision and live a normal life.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And can you see more of my interview with the man in change of rebuilding Afghanistan tonight, 7:00 p.m. Eastern, 4:00 Pacific right here on CNN.
Also joining me tonight: Senator Joe Biden, the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. You can participate. Go to my Web Site, CNN.com/Wolf. Click the icon "Send Your Questions" and I will get as many of those to Senator Biden as possible. You can also read my daily online column at that Web page, CNN.com/Wolf.
And they didn't get much of a break. Coming up, the championship teams arrive at the Super Bowl city after playing yesterday.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Now checking these stories on today's "Newswire": A jury has recommended the death penalty for another member of the seven-man gang that escaped from a Texas prison in 2000 and killed a police officer. Jurors ordered execution for Donald Newbury. Gang ringleader George Rivas was sentenced to death last year.
The New England Patriots are getting ready to make their third appearance in a New Orleans Super Bowl. They arrived in the Big Easy today. Their rivals, the St. Louis Rams, are due to arrive any moment. The Rams are making their second Super Bowl appearance in three years.
And Mike Tyson will soon find out whether he can take part in what's expected to be the largest grossing fight in history. The Nevada Athletic Commission is scheduled to decide tomorrow whether to give him a boxing license. At are stake millions of dollars for a proposed April fight between Tyson and Lennox Lewis in Las Vegas.
And when we come back: subway service that made New Yorkers pause and ponder.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's go to New York and get a preview of "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE," which begins at the top of the hour -- Lou.
LOU DOBBS, "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE": Wolf, thank you very much.
Coming up at the top of the hour, the latest on the Enron scandal: We will have the latest news, including an employee lawsuit over lost 401(k) money. Congress may sue the White House for information on the energy task force meetings and possible links with Enron. Top White House economic adviser Glenn Hubbard will be here to preview the president's State of the Union address. And Secretary of State Colin Powell has apparently broken ranks, saying war captives should be called prisoners, causing a heated debate within and without the administration -- all of that and a lot more at the top of the hour. Please join us.
Now back to Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Lou. Looking forward to it.
Another step on the road to recovery for New York today after the September 11 attacks: The commuter train that once carried passengers to the World Trade Center towers is now back on track.
CNN's Deborah Feyerick rode the rails and has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Starting today, the E train is back on track, its normal route ending at the World Trade Center. We're getting on here at 34th Street near Madison Square Garden and the Empire State Building. We're here at 34th Street, the blue line. E train travels from Queens, cuts across midtown, then goes down the west side of Manhattan. Since the September 11 attacks, the train has stopped short, officials keeping the train far away from ground zero. Riders have been doing a lot of walking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very difficult. Takes me an extra 40 minutes to get into work in the morning.
FEYERICK: It's 8:00 in the morning, usually this train would be packed, but everything's been different since September 11. Sir, what would this train normally be like?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be wall to wall with people.
FEYERICK: Is it surprising just how empty it is today?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is, but I think -- I think a lot of people don't know that the subway is open yet so.
FEYERICK: And also you had a lot of people working at the World Trade Center go in there that day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Yes, I know.
FEYERICK: This is Canal Street, about a mile north of the World Trade Center. People going all the way down to Manhattan used to have to transfer here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's more convenient, you know, just take one train straight from home and I can walk up to John Street.
FEYERICK: Unlike the one and nine subway lines which sustained major damage when steel beams came crashing through the ceiling destroying the tunnel, the E line here at Chambers and World Trade Center sustained only cosmetic damage.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You may now enter through the Church and Fulton Street exit on to your left.
FEYERICK: Through these gates, past the turnstiles, there's a white wall. That used to be the grand concourse of the World Trade Center. There were lots of shops and lots of places to eat. You could actually go underground to straight up to your office in the Twin Towers without ever having to go outside. With the concourse all boarded up, everybody's shifting going this way out.
Sir, this is the first time you've ridden this train. What's it like?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actually, it feels good to be coming back downtown, at least this way, you know, because even though I was taking one other train, it still wasn't your normal routine so you felt out of sorts. So it feels good to be getting back into, you know, what you've done for the last how many years, you know.
FEYERICK: It may not seem like a big deal opening part of the subway line, but imagine if somebody closed down half of main street. At least this gesture to New Yorkers is one step closer to getting back to normal. The finding our bearings may be a different matter.
You take a look, this is exactly where the World Trade Center used to be. Two massive buildings here with the others surrounding it, and now those are the buildings that you see.
What kind of an impact is this having on you right now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It has a big impact. I was here on 9-11. I was about four blocks away.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The last time I was here was that morning when everything was on fire so I'm just very shocked and...
FEYERICK: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything that gets back to the way it was or improves is definitely building our healing process for this city, for the people.
FEYERICK: Deborah Feyerick, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And I'll be back in one hour with part two of my interview with the Afghan interim leader, Hamid Karzai. Also, Senator Joe Biden, the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, will join me as well. That's at 7:00 Eastern, 4:00 Pacific.
Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" begins right now.
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