Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Interim Leader of Afghanistan Visits U.S.

Aired January 28, 2002 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, as Afghanistan's flag is raised again in Washington, President Bush pledges to stand by the reborn nation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will also support programs to train new police officers and to help establish and train an Afghanistan national military.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: I'll speak with Afghanistan's interim leader, Hamid Karzai, who says there's one thing on his mind.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAMID KARZAI, CHAIRMAN, INTERIM AFGHAN GOVERNMENT: How to cooperate with America and the international community to finish terrorism forever and to make a nice, good, peaceful world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: We'll go live to the White House. And how is Karzai playing in Washington? I'll get reaction from Senate Foreign Relations Committee chairman Joe Biden.

Good evening. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting tonight from Washington. With the help of the United States, Hamid Karzai and his fellow Afghan fighters destroyed the Taliban regime and forced al Qaeda fighters to flee for their lives. Now Karzai is Afghanistan's interim leader. He's getting a hero's welcome here in Washington and expressing his thanks to the Bush administration and to the U.S. Congress.

We'll get to my special interview with Hamid Karzai shortly. But first, let's go live to CNN senior White House correspondent, John King. He is covering the visit by Karzai over at the White House. John, give us the headlines. What happened today?

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Quite a celebratory mood, Wolf. First and foremost, both the chairman of the Afghan interim government and the White House very pleased with these events. Obviously they view this as a historic visit. Mr. Karzai most of all says he needs money and help reconstructing his country.

On that front, some help from the administration. Previously, the administration had committed about $300 million initially to the reconstruction effort. Today it also announced it was unfreezing, freeing up, more than $220 million in assets frozen when the Taliban regime was in power, so more help from a financial standpoint.

One minor disagreement, at least the administration wants to call it a minor disagreement. Chairman Karzai would like a much bigger U.S. role in that international security force. About 4,000 to 5,000 troops in Afghanistan to help keep the peace. The Bush administration does not want to be involved in a security force. It still has troops there obviously as part of the military mission. The compromise discussed today, Mr. Bush says no, the United States will not be part of a peacekeeping force, but it will help Afghanistan build an army of its own.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: We have made a decision, both of us have made the decision that Afghanistan must, as quickly as possible, develop her own military. And we will help. We will help train, and we -- and Tommy Franks, our general, fully understands this and is fully committed to this idea. So better yet than peacekeepers, which will be there for a while with our help, let's have Afghanistan have her own military.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: And in an interview earlier today, Vice President Dick Cheney made clear those U.S. troops are in Afghanistan for some time to come. He also said he was very impressed with the new leader of Afghanistan, called him, quote, "a quite impressive fellow", said, "Mr. Karzai recognizes the high demands ahead of him, the high challenges he faces", but he says he is completely committed to restoring Afghanistan to a representative democracy. Quite impressed, the people here at the White House are by their guest today and they promised to do all they can, despite a few differences on the military deemployment to help him out -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And I take it, John, the president will have as a special guest in the gallery tomorrow night when he delivers his state of the union address, Hamid Karzai, sitting up there with the first lady, Laura Bush. But are we expecting the president to break any new ground when it comes to the war on terrorism in his address tomorrow night?

KING: No new ground to be broken by the president. You are right. Chairman Karzai will be among the honored guests. So will some members of the U.S. military up in the president's box at the state of the union.

Three major goals the president has: focus on the fight to rebuild the economy here at home, focus on the effort to add billions of dollars, doubling the budget for homeland security here, the domestic front, if you will, on the war a terrorism. The president will also update the Congress and the American people on the war in Afghanistan. Administration officials say most of all, it is important for the president to restate the principles, offer an update as to where the U.S. mission is so far, but to make clear that in many ways, this mission is just beginning. Yes, in the administration view, progress in Afghanistan, but still much to do inside Afghanistan, and as we have seen and heard in recent days and weeks, more and more fronts of this emerging long-term war on terrorism. The president wants to make clear, wants to keep and sustain the public support he has right now for what he will once again say will be a very long war -- Wolf.

BLITZER: John King at the White House, thank you very much. And you can see John King's full interview with the vice president, Dick Cheney, on his special report, LIVE FROM THE WHITE HOUSE. That begins at the top of the hour, 8:00 p.m. Eastern, 5:00 Pacific.

And on the eve of that visit to the White House, I sat down for a conversation with Hamid Karzai. A few short months ago, he was just an anti-Taliban rebel leader. Today, he presided over the flag raising ceremony at the embassy of the new Afghanistan, as the chairman of that country's interim government.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (on camera): You are the first leader of Afghanistan in I believe, if my notes are correct, 39 years to be officially welcomed in Washington, D.C. What is going through were your mind right now knowing you are representing your people here?

KARZAI: I'm glad. I'm very happy. It's a honor that the U.S. president, the U.S. government, the people are welcoming me here. I have seen a good welcome so far.

In my mind, as I stay in Washington, as I right now I'm talking to you, is only one thing: how to make Afghanistan good again, how to make it strong against the reemergence of terrorism and bad people from around the world, and how to cooperate with America and the international community to finish terrorism forever and to make a nice, good, peaceful world.

BLITZER (voice-over): Later, Karzai asserted that Afghanistan's neighbors, specifically Iran and Pakistan, had been friendly and cooperative during this transitional period. But given the recent history between Afghanistan and those two nations, questions remain.

(on camera): When you say all the neighbors have been nice so far, Pakistan -- let's go through those neighbors. First of all, Pakistan President Musharraf, is he supporting you? Are you are confident that he is working to help Afghanistan?

KARZAI: Well, he was the first president of a country to call me, even when I was away from Kabul north of Kandahar in central Afghanistan. He called to congratulate me and to extend his cooperation and to say, look, let's have the best of relations.

BLITZER: So the previous support for the Taliban, you forgot about? KARZAI: Yes. We have to be reasonable. We have to live in this part of the world. We have to be good with our neighbors. We have to have the best of relationships, trade and so on. From our side, there is the best of intentions. Based on our national interest, we will do that.

BLITZER: As you know, many American officials are very concerned about the Iranian role. Reports of troops, of arms shipments into Afghanistan. What exactly are the Iranians up to?

KARZAI: Iran, too, is a major neighbor of ours. We share history. We share culture. We share the same language. We are both Muslim countries. The Iranians have come and told us that they have the best intentions towards us. I spoke to the president of Iran, Mr. Khatami. He gave me assurances.

Yes, we hear things happening in western parts of the country. But just a few days ago in Tokyo, the Iranian foreign ministry gave me a reassurance again and we take that as good. And if there is anything that is not done well by our neighbors, that we feel is not right, we will tell them straight. And we right now hope that everybody will be nice to us and we are nice to them. That's where I would like things to be.

BLITZER: As you know, Russia has a history in Afghanistan, not a very good history, the former Soviet Union. I have spoken to people who have been in Kabul recently say there's a lot of Russians running around Kabul right now. Are they playing a positive or a negative role, as far as you can tell?

KARZAI: I don't think there are so many Russians in Afghanistan right now. There was some that came from a medical unit. They have not displayed any such activity that should concern us, that should make us worried.

At this point now, today, I believe all of our neighbors are having a reasonable attitude. There are reports here and there. But that's not alarming at this point, not seriously alarming. So we can keep quiet about it, but we will follow the situation. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is the same as I said earlier of friendship. And we hope that everybody will be friendly and nice because it is tremendously in the interest of all in that region to have a moderate, reasonable approach to Afghanistan. Otherwise, terrorism, bad people, radicalism will find a place again and that's going to be disastrous for the region as a whole.

BLITZER: As you know, there was a report in "Newsweek" when Secretary of State Powell was in Kabul, there was a plot against him. Was there?

KARZAI: I don't know of that. Was there?

BLITZER: I don't know. I'm asking you.

KARZAI: I have not heard -- the security has not told me. There were two days mentioned, 15th and 16th of January, that we had reports of some activities by terrorists or by whoever wants to get trouble, but that did not happen. So if that's what you are referring to, yes, there was. Something against Mr. Powell directly, Secretary Powell directly, that I have not heard.

BLITZER: Do al Qaeda operatives still roam around Afghanistan?

KARZAI: In a hide and seek manner, yes. They were the government. They were ruling this country.

BLITZER: Who was ruling whom, the Taliban or al Qaeda, because, you know, there were a lot of conflicting reports. Who was really in charge?

KARZAI: I think as I saw the situation four months ago, as I saw the fighting machine of the Taliban, it was these al Qaeda people that were running the Taliban.

BLITZER: Really?

KARZAI: Oh, yes.

BLITZER: So Mullah Mohammed Omar was really taking orders from Osama bin Laden?

KARZAI: I think it didn't even exist because a lot of times, messages came from his sight to be for surrender and then it won't materialize. This man probably was completely out of it, absolutely not in charge.

BLITZER (voice-over): Karzai later insisted he wants American help in training Afghan armed forces. Today, President Bush announced the U.S. will help establish and train a national military force in Afghanistan as well as a police force. I pressed Karzai for details.

(on camera): Specifics, do you want to share with us what you want?

KARZAI: There is no specifics here. We want our army to be trained and trained well. And if the U.S. can give training to our people, good.

BLITZER: And you believe you have the basic support from the Bush administration and from Congress that will generate that kind of position?

KARZAI: I think we have that support, yes. I think there is a very nice feeling both in Afghanistan and in America for a joint cooperation. We must develop on that. We must build on that.

BLITZER: You have no reason to believe there will be anything but a smooth transition over the course of the next several months and indeed years?

KARZAI: It will be smooth. There may be problems here and there for a country like ours that's just coming out of the operations room, some of the intensive care unit. You don't expect things to go very, very smoothly. There will be troubles. There will be skirmishes. There will be problems here and there. But the overall flow of things will be smooth, the overall national flow of things will be smooth because the national sentiment is for stability in Afghanistan and we must deliver that.

BLITZER: And the exiled king, there is reports now he is going to be coming back earlier than previously thought.

KARZAI: Well, when I met with him -- when was that? Early December -- he wanted to come on the 21st of March, which is the first day of a new year in Afghanistan. And I said, welcome. I'll make sure he comes back. That is his country. All Afghans are welcome to Afghanistan to come back and live in their country.

BLITZER: Will he come back in March at that time?

KARZAI: I think he will. I spoke to him the day before yesterday and he said yes, he wants come.

BLITZER: He's feeling all right?

KARZAI: He's feeling good.

BLITZER: He is not a young man.

KARZAI: But he is feeling good.

BLITZER: And he will have a powerful, symbolic role in any new government?

KARZAI: He has no desire to enter politics in Afghanistan. He has told me that very clear and loud, several, several times over the past many years. But he will be inaugurating the Afghan grand council, the loya jirga. And if the loya jirga asks him to do something, he may or may not accept. Otherwise, on his own, as a person, he has no desire for a political role. He has a desire to help Afghanistan get through difficult times, through better times.

BLITZER: I have been in Washington for many years, as you know. I have covered many visits by leaders from other countries to Washington. I must tell you the security surrounding you is as intense as I have seen for anyone. How concerned are you about your personal safety?

KARZAI: I think I'm very safe in Washington. If I walk or not in the streets of Georgetown, I will be very happy to walk on my own.

BLITZER: You want to give the Secret Service a nervous breakdown?

KARZAI: I won't like to give them the nervous breakdown, but they should be relaxed. There is nothing.

BLITZER: You are confident?

KARZAI: I am confident. God is great. BLITZER: And you believe in God, that's going to take care of you?

KARZAI: Oh, so much. I have seen it in the past. God has helped me in the past.

BLITZER: Mr. Chairman, welcome to Washington.

KARZAI: Thank you very much. I'm happy to be here.

BLITZER: Good to have you.

KARZAI: Thank you. Thank you very much.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (on camera): And when we come back, military assistance, reconstruction aid, a lot of promises are being made during the Karzai visit. But will Congress want to keep them? I'll ask the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Joe Biden, when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

Afghanistan's interim leader is getting the red carpet treatment in Washington along with pledges to help train Afghanistan's police and military, and help to help rebuild that war-shattered nation. But does Hamid Karzai have staying power? Can he really unite Afghanistan?

Joining me now from Wilmington, Delaware, the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Joe Biden. Senator, thanks for joining us.

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D-DE), FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Hey, Wolf. How are you?

BLITZER: You were there. You've spent some quality time with Hamid Karzai. Can he get the job done?

BIDEN: Well, I think he can, Wolf. I spent about five and a half hours with him, but more importantly, I spent four days with all those folks who used to be his adversaries. And I came away, Wolf, with the distinct feeling that all of the factions, all of the ethnic groups represented in this interim government as well as some of the warlords with whom I met all think this is the guy who holds the key to the future of Afghanistan. They have all agreed on this fellow.

They think he can deliver the goods. And the goods are peace and security until an elected government comes along and long-term commitment to help rebuild that country. So that's why I think he can do it.

BLITZER: The immediate issue on his agenda, I asked him if can he disarm the warlords. And he said he is going to do as best to try. Can he really do that, disarm those warlords who are ruling big chunks of that country?

BIDEN: The answer is no, in my view. And that's why when I have spoken to him at length, and again, to every other person in the country with whom I spoke, its entire cabinet, they all said the same thing, no matter what part of the equation they came from: We need a robust international force here basically to protect us from ourselves and to protect us from our client states around us, the Iranians, the Pakistanis and others interfering.

And so I think the key to all of this is an international force that stays there, Wolf, while we are transitioning to train this army, which is about 125,000 people under arms now, get that down to a military that is a joint military of about 40 to 50,000 people over the next two years. So I think that's the key, this transitioning of force. That's how it will happen.

BLITZER: Karzai today seemed to get half of what he wanted from President Bush. He got a commitment to train the military, the police force by the United States military. But he didn't get commitment that the U.S. would actually join the peacekeepers, led by the British right now, about 2,500 troops. Karzai would like 30,000 with a robust U.S. participation, but the president says that's not going to happen.

BIDEN: Well, I think -- I met for a couple hours with the British one star, who is in charge of the multilateral force in Kabul, which is doing a total of 4,800 people. And he said an interesting thing to me, Wolf. He said, senator, how long do you think my parliament will allow me to stay if they know you guys aren't in the deal. Now, how President Bush parses this, whether the president makes an a commitment as -- we'll act as an extraction force in case the international force got in trouble or whether you are going to have Americans soldiers on the ground as part of this, or American soldiers on the ground not part of it -- I don't know. But one thing for certain, without a robust international force not only in Kabul but also in Hazar -- I mean Mazar and also in Kandahar, and other places in the country, this government will not get up and running.

BLITZER: There was an opinion piece in the "Wall Street Journal" today. I want to put an excerpt up on our screen, senator, it said this: "efforts to neutralize warlords won't work unless the United States and other friends of Afghanistan go after them with the same determination they are showing in the search for Osama bin Laden. Do you think the American public has the stomach for that right now?

BIDEN: Well, I don't think we have to do that, I'd make a distinction here. Based on my observations, discussions and experience is this: and that is if all of the warlords understand, that there really will be an Afghan force representative of all of the factions of the country like, existed prior to 1973, they are all ready to go in on the deal. But none of them are ready to go in unless there is essentially guarantor, and the guarantor is the United States assembling this force, whether or not we make up part of it or not. But we are the ultimate guarantor that there will be a multinational force, in place, making sure that they don't have any real losses. And as Karzai spent an hour with me, when he gathered up some mullahs he wanted me to meet, making the point that the reason why economic recovery is so important, Wolf, is these armies the warlords have, you got to give them an alternative. You got to give them some jobs, you have to get them out of the business of what they have been doing for the last 23 years. This is a difficult process but it's not so much going out and, for example, going after up in Dostum up in Mazar and disarming him. I think it's a lot easier in one sense to do that. But harder in terms of requiring real commitment from the international community, led by the British and others, including us to guarantee in be effect the peace while this two-year process of a permanent government takes place, and while we train their forces.

BLITZER: All right. Senator, I want to switch gears for a second -- we don't have a lot of time, but I want to ask you about this debate over the detainees at Guantanamo Bay, whether they should be POWs. I want you to listen to what President Bush said today, insisting they won't be called POWs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: We are not going to call them prisoners of war in either case. And the reason why is al Qaeda is not a known military. These are killers. These are terrorists.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: A lot of criticism of the U.S. from Europe, in particular, on this issue, is that criticism justified?

BIDEN: No, I think the president is right. Look, I put on my old hat as chairman of the Judiciary Committee, I had my judiciary staff go back and go look at the four Geneva conventions. The bottom line is this, Wolf, al Qaeda clearly -- clearly does not qualify as prisoners of war and the status that would allow them. It is theoretically possible, some of the Taliban prisoners may very well, but it will be up to a three person tribunal. Under international law, U.S. military to determine whether their al Qaeda or Taliban. And it's even questionable whether Taliban warrants the treatment of the status of prisoner of war. They all will be treated, though, in terms of humaneness according to the requirements of the Geneva conventions.

BLITZER: Senator, on that note, we are going to leave it. Thanks so much for joining us, always appreciate your insight.

BIDEN: Thank you very much.

BLITZER: Thank you very much. And coming up, U.S. special forces see fresh action in Kandahar. We will be back in just a moment with that and other top stories.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back, a deadly end to a long stand off in Afghanistan, tops this hour's news alert. U.S. special forces joined Afghan troops in an assault on a Kandahar hospital, killing 6 heavily armed al Qaeda fighters who had been holed up for six weeks. Five Afghan soldiers were hurt in the 12 hour raid. There are no reports of U.S. injuries. And that's all the time we have tonight.

Please join me again, tomorrow, twice at both 5:00 and 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Among my guests tomorrow, the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Carl Levin. And the ranking Republican, John Warner. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I am Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com