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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Interview with Marianne Pearl, Banazir Bhutto

Aired January 30, 2002 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Now on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: A diatribe and a death threat. Kidnappers announce their plans for an American journalist and warn others to get out of Pakistan. I'll speak live with former Pakistani prime minister, Benazir Bhutto.

Shoe bomber, or heart patient?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything with gunpowder, fireworks, even heart medication, such as nitro glycerin will show a positive on this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Chemical residue is found on a man's shoes at San francisco Airport, just as he disappears into the crowd.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: States like these and their terrorist allies constitute an axis of evil, arming to threaten the peace of the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Is President Bush exaggerating the case against Iran, Iraq and North Korea, or lining them up in his sights?

Vice President Cheney makes a birthday wish, but is that enough to head off an unprecented clash with Congress?

Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. For those of us in this business, it's our nightmare scenario: Kidnappers who say they are prepared to kill an American journalist. That tops our news alert.

The threat that "Wall Street Journal" correspondent, Daniel Pearl, will be killed within 24 hours was sent in an e-mail obtained by CNN and other news agencies. Pearl disappeared in Karachi, Pakistan, last week. His kidnappers also threaten to harm other American journalists in the country. We will have much more on this story in just a moment.

A terminal at San Francisco International Airport has reopened after a security breach forced the evacuation of thousands of passengers. Security guards detected what may have been explosives residue on the shoes of a man. He disappeared into the crowd before he could be questioned.

Strong reaction to President Bush's tough warning to three countries he calls the axis of evil. In his State of the Union Address last night, Mr. Bush said he will not allow Iraq, Iran or North Korea to develop weapons of mass destruction. Iraq and Iran denounced Mr. Bush's speech today. So far, no comment from North Korea.

In the Middle East, another suicide bomb attack today. Two Israeli security service members were wounded when a bomber blew himself up in the Israeli town of Taibeh near the west bank. Two Palestinian groups jointly claimed responsibility. One of the groups, Islamic Jihad, warns of more attacks to come.

Now back to our top story, a chilling threat from the kidnappers of "Wall Street Journal" reporter, Daniel Pearl: Do what we say, or he's dead within 24 hours. The kidnappers, a group known as the National Movement for the Restoration of Pakistani Sovereignty, sent an e-mail spelling out their position, along with these new pictures of Pearl, who was abducted last week in Karachi.

In their e-mail, the group demands the release of all Pakistanis being held by the U.S. as a result of the war on terrorism, and they offered a stark warning to other journalists. In their own words, often misspelled, the e-mail reads: We have interrogated Mr. D. Pearl, and we have come to the conclusion that contrary to what we thought earlier, he is not working for the CIA. In fact, he is working for Mossad. Therefore, we will execute him within 24 hour unless America fulfills our demands. We warn all American journalists working in Pakistan that there are many in their ranks spying on Pakistan under the journalist cover. Therefore we give all American journalists three days to get out of Pakistan. Anyone remaining after that will be targeted."

A little earlier this afternoon, Pearl's boss at "The Wall Street Journal" appeared live on CNN INTERNATIONAL to appeal for his reporter's life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL STEIGER, MANAGEING EDITOR, "WALL STREET JOURNAL": Danny Pearl is a journalist, pure and simply, nothing more, nothing less. And he doesn't have the power to bring about the demands of the people who have him captive. And that he's not an agent of any government. He's a journalist and we think that it's in their interest, as well as in ours to set him free.

I'm glad to hear that the people who are holding him recognize that he is not a CIA agent, which they first thought. And we're hoping they realize he's not a Mossad agent either. I've known Danny since he was 26 years old. He's worked for the "Journal" for the last dozen years. His personality does not admit of being an agent for anyone. He's a journalist through and through. He's iconoclastic, he is laid back, he could not be in anybody's Secret Service. He is a reporter and writer. And I think that if the people who have him understand that, as they now understand he's not a CIA agent, they may move to release him and we certainly hope they do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And this note: We are expecting an interview from Karachi with Daniel Pearl's wife, Marianne, within the hour. We will bring that to you on this program of course, as soon as we have it.

For reaction to the developments today out of Pakistan and insight into the overall global war on terrorism, we are joined by Pakistan's former prime minister, Benazir Bhutto. Madam Prime Minister, thanks so much for joining us. What is your take on this kidnapping of Daniel Pearl?

BENAZIR BHUTTO, FMR. PRIME MINISTER OF PAKISTAN: Karachi is a city where there's been a lot of violence, ethnic and religious. And we have had groups like the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Mujah Hadin, which previously kidnapped foreigners and foreign tourists in Kashmir and held them hostage. Karachi is also home -- to Binori (ph) Masjed (ph) . That is where Mullah Omar spent some time.

So it's very difficult to alles, does this have a link with Mullah Omar, does this have a like with the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Mujah Hadin? Or is it part of a new group that has come out?

BLITZER: Is there a history of kidnapping western journalists, per se, in Karachi?

BHUTTO: I'm not aware of any high-profile kidnapping in recent years of foreign journalists. However, there were two American embassy employees who were killed about six or seven years back. And there have been kidnappings of Pakistani businessmen, but really not of any foreigners.

BLITZER: Does the military, the law enforcement authority within Pakistan, the government of President Musharraf have the capabity to control these kinds of Islamic militants in Karachi and elsewhere?

BHUTTO: Will this is a big challenge for General Musharraf's regime. I remember we had an army operation in Karachi and I had to withdraw the army from Karachi and replace wit the police. I found that the army's seize and search operations alieninated the public. We need the public to come forward and give us information about who the terrorists are. And I want to appeal even now to the people of Karachi asking them to come forward with any lead to save the life of Mr. Pearl.

BLITZER: We have a question from one of our viewers. I wanted to to ask this question. Farid in Tracy, California. "Pakistani officials including President Musharraf have pleged to fight terrorism. Why is it so hard for them to crack down on these militia groups like the one holding the American journalist?"

BHUTTO: I think they should crack down against these groups. I think they must be disarmed, they must be told they have to live by the rule of the law. General Musharraf has promised to do so, and I hope he fulfills his promise.

BLITZER: You heard President Bush last night praise President Musharraf of Pakistan. I want you to listen precisely to what the president had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My hope is that all nations will heed our call and eliminate the terrorist parasited who threaten their countries and our own. Many nations are acting forcefully. Pakistan is now cracking down on terror, and I admire the strong leadership of President Musharraf.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: You of course are a critic of President Musharraf. You call him General Musharraf. But he has come through for the U.S. and the west in this war on terrorism.

BHUTTO: Yes, that's partly correct. There are two General Musharrafs; the General Musharraf before September 11 who presided over the rights of Islamic militants and was supportive and sympathetic to the Taliban; and General Musharraf before September 11 who joined the war against terror.

I think the real challenge now is for General Musharraf to deliver on that promise to crack down against terror. I would like to mention that President Bush in his remarks also said that the United States stands for human dignity and the rule of law, and limits of state power, and he held this out to the Islamic world too. And I was really encouraged by that. The campaign against terror is a campaign for enduring freedom. And I think people in the Muslim world need to know they can too can enjoy the freedoms that people in the free world have.

BLITZER: As you know, many U.S. officials, White House officials, and Bush Administration officials view President Musharraf now as an historic figure; almost like an Anwar Sadat who made that break with Israel in 1977. Do you think he has that potential, President Musharraf?

BHUTTO: I know there's a lot of sympathy for him in Washington, and I know they've been meeting him. I myself have seen the other side of General Musharraf and I would like to see more than just words to believe that General Musharraf has made a metamorphosis. For example, after September 11, there were half a million Indian troops on our borders before General Musharraf arrested two leading Islamic militants. I'm prepared to give General Musharraf the benefit of the doubt, if he is prepared to facilitate the democratization process in our country.

BLITZER: The foreign minister of the interim Afghan government, Dr. Abdullah, said that there's possibly some al Qaeda presence, Taliban presence, still in Pakistan right now. Listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ABDULLAH ABDULLAH, FOREIGN MINISTER, INTERIM AFGHAN GOVERNMENT: I can confirm the presence of al Qaeda is still in Afghanistan, in the southern part of Afghanistan, in eastern part of Afghanistan as pockets or individuals as well as in tribal areas in Pakistan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Is that true, that within the tribal areas of Pakistan, there are still al Qaeda pockets?

BHUTTO: There could be. There are people within our security apparatus that fought the Afghan jihad against the Soviets who have a lot of sympathy for, unfortunately, for members of the al Qaeda. I think that sympathy is totally misplaced and giving Pakistan a bad name.

But General Musharraf was brought in by hard-line generals. I'd like to see him reshuffle his cabinet. He has to do that to show that after September 11, there has been a change. Otherwise, if we have people who are with General Ziah (ph) and the Afghan jihad in Musharraf's cabinet and in the administration, well, these al Qaeda suspects will be able to move around quite easily.

BLITZER: Getting back to the situation and the sad case of Daniel Pearl, the "Wall Street Journal" reporter being held hostage in Karachi. Any second now, we're expecting an interview that his wife, Marianne, gave our own Ben Wedemen in Karachi. What's your advice, very briefly, to those who want him freed? How do you get him out dealing with this unknown group of hostage holders?

BHUTTO: It's very difficult to give advice because these are irrational people. But I think it is very important for us to appeal to the people in the city of Karachi through television, through the radio, asking them give us any leads, give us any tips because we must free the journalist. If we do not free Mr. Pearl, it will damage Pakistan's standing in the international community.

BLITZER: And paying them off in terms of money doesn't seem to be an issue right now?

BHUTTO: Well, this is the difficulty. One can offer to pay, but the demands are more than money. They're demanding the release of people.

BLITZER: All right. I want to go now to the interview. This is Marianne, the wife of Daniel Pearl.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Mrs. Pearl, your husband, the group holding your husband, has given a 24-hour deadline for the United States to meet their demands or they say they will kill your husband, Daniel. Do you have a message to that group? MARIANNE PEARL, WIFE OF DANIEL PEARL: Yes, I have a message that -- three different points I want to talk about. The first one is I want to remind them that my husband and I are both journalists. And the reason I -- we are two people who met and fell in love because we have the same ideal, you know. And all my life, all his life and our life together is just a big effort to try to create dialogue between civilization.

This is me. I'm French. You know, I'm not American. My mother is Cuban. My father is Dutch, and my whole life is that, right? And why I love Danny is because he had the same ideal. So before I met him, he was covering Middle East. You know, so when I met him, he was all this time in Iran, you know, trying to go to places where people like -- there was a lack of understanding so he could write about it. And that's what really Danny is. That's why I was attracted to him at first.

So he's almost, religion I would say, is truth. If somebody is like who -- I never saw him say a lie. You know, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) I've never seen somebody so honest about, you know, the people, never has any judgment, you know. And the reason like -- why we are in Pakistan today is because we wanted to know more about the people and write about their views and keep working on that same idea of how we're going to create a dialogue because we know the war is not easy.

I am pregnant. I am going to have a baby and we are trying at our level to create a better world. I mean, it sounds like big words but, you know, that's our life. Since we've been in Pakistan -- I love Pakistan. It is a country I really feel, you know, comfortable with. The more I stay here, the more I like the people. We've been sharing a lot with them since we've been here, like not 24 hours a day. What we do all the time is meeting people, having dialogues with them. Danny has been learning a little bit Urdu, you know, learning a little bit Arabic, just like, you know, that's all we've been doing. And the more we did that, the more we deepened our relationship with people.

Now we have friends in Pakistan, and my perceptions have changed. I came here -- you know, in the West, you know, I'm not saying that people can understand what's going on here and the suffering of the people because, you know, it's a different civilization and everybody is calling to his own world. Our mission and how our role is to try to create that dialogue and that's I think, you know, honestly with all our heart, at least, we have been trained to do while we were in Pakistan.

Now the situation is very real for me because, OK, I've seen this e-mail that you just mentioned, and what can I do? Nobody has contacted me. Nobody is trying to, you know, to tell me what I should do. I've read the statements. I've read with my, you know, my open heart in trying to understand what they say. I think I do. I think I do, but what should I do? What exactly -- you know, it's a general statement and Danny is my life. So I need some indication of exactly precisely what I should do, you know, regarding what they want. You know, we need something like that I can work on because, you know, they have given us a deadline but nothing to like... WEDEMAN: They have given demands. They've asked for the release of Pakistani prisoners held by the United States following the recent events in Afghanistan. What do you say to that? What is your reaction to that?

PEARL: My reaction to that is that even though -- I just mentioned my mother is a Cuban, I cannot go now and see (UNINTELLIGIBLE), you know, ask Castro and say -- what can I do? I mean, this is not like something I can actually, you know, do, right?

So I'm sure there are more accurate demands. There are more like, you know, things that they can ask someone, you know. I mean, I have to tell you that, you know, like when Danny went to in this case, he went to see the people because he wanted to, as I said, understand their view and talk about them. He went with complete confidence, you know. Usually, we always do this interview together because we're both journalists. That night, as I said, I'm pregnant so I was sick. I didn't go. Otherwise, I would have gone with him. And now I'm confused because like, you know, I'm having dialogue with people, sharing views. You know, we are not like on one side or the other. And now this dialogue is broken.

WEDEMAN: But if one of them was sitting in front of you now, what would you tell them?

PEARL: Just what I told you. You know, I would say, OK, I've tried to read -- you know, I need more. I mean, I need to understand more on exactly what you want at our level, you know, what exactly you want. But you have to understand also us, you know -- OK, there is the human aspect. I mean, I am not lying. This is, you know, my life and this is my baby's life and my husband's life, right?

But and besides that, look at where we are. I mean, this is -- we've been like, you know, you don't know -- this is a life-long effort of trying to create that. So it's completely wrong. You know, like the only thing to hold us, it's like -- it's just creating just more misery and that's it. You know, nothing can come out of there. If they don't allow people, you know, who take the risk, who are willing to go and create the dialogue, the last one to be held hostage or to be suffering from that because we are the one who tried to create that dialogue, right? And so that's what I would tell him.

And I'd also tell him that I trust they can understand me because since I've been in Pakistan, we have been able to create that dialogue. It's a dialogue that existed and this is what keeps us going. That's why sometimes through tough time, it is not easy for me, I'm also pregnant and all these things. And why am I staying here? Why, I'm not, like, comfortable in Paris?

Because I believe that, and the dialogue has always won, has always won. So I ask them to have a dialogue. And God, I mean, like you have to create that. You can't just, you know -- the statement is not -- they're breaking this dialogue and we have that with the Pakistani people, so they have to communicate and say something that I can actually do or Danny can actually do.

WEDEMAN: And how are you coping with this?

PEARL: I haven't slept for six days, since you're asking. But I have hope. I mean, you know, I'm not desperate, because if I stop believing in creating this dialogue, then I stop believing in everything else. So I can't do that. I'm pregnant.

WEDEMAN: And if you could speak to your husband now, what would you tell him?

PEARL: I love you.

BLITZER: Marianne Pearl, the wife of Daniel Pearl, the kidnapped American journalist being held in Karachi.

I'm once again joined by Benazir Bhutto, with the former prime minister of Pakistan.

Will that appeal, do you believe, could it have an impact on those holding Mr. Pearl?

BHUTTO: I hope it does. It was really heart rending. Mrs. Pearl is expecting a baby, she's young. Her husband has been taken unfairly. He has nothing to do with politics. I certainly hope it can penetrate some stone heart and stir some humanity.

BLITZER: Benazir Bhutto, thank you very much. We all hope the same thing as well. Appreciate it very much.

And when we come back, possible explosive situations forces an evacuation of the San Francisco International Airport. Also, President Bush takes his ideas on homeland defense. And other State of the Union Themes takes him on the road.

Selling the speech and examining what he calls the axis of evils. What nations and why those nations when we come back.

Also Dick Cheney being taken to court by the same Congress he visited last night. The political energy createed by Enron just ahead.

And blanketing southern California, the unseasonable winter, later this hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. We're continuing our coverage of the missing American journalist kidnapped in Karachi, "The Wall Street Journal" reporter Daniel Pearl. We just heard from his wife Marianne. Joining us now live from Karachi is our Ben Wedeman. He interviewed Marianne Pearl just a little while ago. Give us the latest as far as what you can tell of what is happening in this sad story right now, Ben.

WEDEMAN: Basically, Wolf, what is happening today is that the Pakistani authorities have taken into custody one Mubarak Ali Jilani (ph) who is the head of a Muslim group which means "The Group Of The Poor." And one interior ministry spokesman has described him as quote unquote, a prime suspect.

Now, Mr. Pearl was on his way, in fact, to Mr. With Mr. Jilani when essentially he disappeared and that was about a week ago. And so basically that is what the Pakistani authorities are working upon. But as we saw from his wife Mariane, clearly she's quite confused as to what to do. The demands are being put forward by the group that is holding him, which is the National Movement for the Restoration of Pakistani Sovereignty.

Their demands are essentially four: They would like the United States to release all Pakistanis being held as a result of the war in Afghanistan. They want Pakistanis who were taken into custody following the September 11 attacks to be given more access to lawyers and their families. They would like Abdu Salam Zaief, who was the Taliban ambassador to Pakistan to be freed. And finally they want a shipment of U.S. F-16s that the United States was going to send to Pakistan to be delivered.

Now, that shipment was held up following the may 1998 nuclear detonations by Pakistan. Obviously these are rather large list of demands for the wife of a journalist and as she said, there's nothing she can do regarding those demands -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Ben Wedeman, our reporter in Karachi, thanks very much and thanks for bringing us that interview, very moving, with Marianne Pearl the wife of "Wall Street Journal" reporter Daniel Pearl being held hostage in Karachi, Pakistan.

Turning now to homeland security here in the United States: Thousands of passengers were evacuated from San Francisco International Airport today, after security guards detected what may have been explosives residue on the shoes of a man. CNN's Rusty Dornin has been covering this story all day and joins us live from the airport. Rusty, what happened?

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, as you said, it may have been explosives residue. It could also have been fertilizer residue, it could have been heart medication, even bologna couldn leave the residue that was detected.

What happened was that about 10 to seven this morning apparently a man took his shoes off to have them examined. They took a swipe of his shoes and put it in what they call the explosion trace detector, and then there was a time lag, the man was handed his shoes back and before they could tell him that the alert had gone on, the man had disappeared into the crowd. That's when the alarms went off and the airport evacuated the entire United terminal.

Now, this is one of the largest terminals at San Francisco International. So about 2,000 people had to come outside the security area and stand in the street outside the terminal while the bomb- sniffing dogs and bomb squad searched through. They found nothing but passengers were of course very frustrated and for a while it was pretty chaotic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As soon we get clearance, the police department is working on bringing you folks in as quickly as possible. We're staffed, we're ready for you and we'll process you as quickly as possible. As far as I know, no flights have taken off. They'll be coming up with a plan. They are working on it now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the terrorists must be laughing in their boots that we're so vulnerable to disruption. And I understand it, but there's a tendency toward overreaction.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I travel enough that I understand why they did it. You just have to take it one step at a time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DORNIN: So about three hours after the incident occurred the doors opened, the passengers came back into the terminal and had to be rescreened. Now FAA officials did tell CNN that this should never have happened in the first place. The secrity company, Argenbright, has been investigated by the FAA before for other secuity breaches. They were involved in an incident at the O'Hare Airport where a man was caught, had gone through security carrying knives.

So apparantly, United Airlines could be held liable for some kind of fine in this case. Airport officials, there is a press conference under way now. They will be talking about any further developments in the case -- Wolf.

BLITZER: OK, Rusty Dornin, thank you so much for that report. We'll continue to follow these developments.

And homeland defense was among the three themes President Bush outlined in his State of the Union address last night. Today, he hit the road seeking public support for his plans -- first stop: Winston- Salem, North Carolina. Later today, he goes to Daytona Beach, Florida and tomorrow to Atlanta.

In Winston-Salem, the president urged Americans to do their part in the war against terrorism by volunteering in their communities. And he's offering a helping hand in his $560 million proposal for a USA Freedom Corps. He also stressed another key point of his address last night: his call to make last year's tax cut permanent.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The best way to help an economy recover is to let hardworking people keep more of their money. When they get more money in their pocket, they spend more money. And, as they spend more money, it helps create jobs. Tax relief is an important way to battle recession. And for those who want to do away with tax relief, you don't know what you're talking about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The president is also continuing his tough words on the three countries he calls the axis of evil: Iraq, and Iran and North Korea. He warned those three governments last night that the United States will not allow them to produce weapons of mass destruction or to continue supporting terrorists.

The defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, hammered away at that warning earlier today at the Pentagon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I think if I were in Iran or North Korea or Iraq and I heard the president of the United States say what he said last night about weapons of mass destruction, and about terrorism, and about terrorist networks, and about nations that harbor terrorists, I don't think there would be a lot of ambiguity as to the view he holds of those problems and their behavior.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Saddam Hussein's government reacted quickly to Mr. Bush's remarks, calling them "stupid." Ever since the end of the Persian Gulf War, the U.S. and Iraq have, from time to time, clashed with words or weapons over Washington's charges the Iraqi leader is developing weapons of mass destruction.

Iran also lashed back. President Mohammad Khatami described Mr. Bush's words as aggressive and humiliating. This new war comes Washington and Tehran were taking some steps to try to improve relations. But Defense Secretary Rumsfeld today said Iran has long been sending terrorists to the Middle East.

And so far, there has been no reaction from communist North Korea. Washington supports reunification of North and South Korea. But North Korea's suspected nuclear program and its missile development program have long been sore points in the relationship. According to the State Department, North Korea is not known to have supported any terrorism acts since 1987.

And joining us now to talk more about the president's warning to what he calls the axis of power, the axis of evil, our military analyst, the retired U.S. Army brigadier general, David Grange.

General Grange, thanks so much for joining us.

Militarily speaking, taking on these three countries would be rather difficult, I take it.

GEN. DAVID GRANGE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I believe so, three tough fights. I'm sure we wouldn't want to do that at the same time.

But, again, you know, they support terrorists or they definitely are involved in terrorist organizations in their countries. And you just can't ignore the Hezbollah, the Hamas or the sale or movement of weapons to terrorist organizations. And we said we were going to do something about that, as some of our allies, and we have no choice. So it just depends, I guess, on how we go about it. BLITZER: General, I want to bring in Rob Sobhani. He is a lecturer at Georgetown University here in Washington. He knows this region quite well.

Rob, the White House was going at length earlier today to make it clear the president was not necessarily simply speaking of possible military action, but diplomatic, political, economic leverage as well. Will that make a difference?

ROB SOBHANI, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: I think, Wolf, the president's comments probably have more to do with Iran, because it would be foolish for to us to strike militarily against Iran.

However, the president last night made it very clear that he distinguishes between the people of Iran and the regime in Tehran. And that message has resonated over the last several hours. There have been many, many calls into talk radios from inside Iran to the United States praising the president's message distinguishing between the people and the regime.

His message has resonated. And I think what the president has in mind is to invest in democracy and freedom as it concerns Iran.

BLITZER: But, as you know, Rob, there were signs coming from Iran offering to help U.S. pilots if they were brought down in their efforts against the Taliban in Afghanistan. There have also been some recent reforms that have been going on, supposedly supported by President Khatami. Are these signs to be ignored?

SOBHANI: I think, Wolf, the biggest misconception in Washington and American policy has been that there is a battle between conservatives and moderates in Iran.

The current dynamic in Iran is this: It's a battle between the regime that has not fulfilled the promises of reform against the people. That's the dynamic. The dynamic has moved beyond Mr. Khatami to an alternative that the people of Iran are now searching for.

BLITZER: And that sort of line was echoed to me and some other reporters yesterday when we were at the White House. We heard a senior administration official say that the split between various factions in Iran could be good cop vs. bad cop.

General Grange, I want to bring you in and talk about the threat potentially from Iraq. For the U.S. to use military force, it would need extensive basing in the region. But right now, the Saudi government doesn't seem to be all that anxious for the United States to beef up its military presence there.

GRANGE: Well, I think you are right.

I don't think Saudi Arabia would be an option at this time. But I don't think it has to be either. I think we have some other options. I think you are going to see the biggest support in this whole region to any efforts we have, let's say against Iraq, if that happens, probably with Turkey. Saudi Arabia, something is going to have to be done with our relationship there, in my opinion. And I think we will just move away from using that country in the future.

BLITZER: What about the military option, if it came down to it, North Korea? North Korea is desperately poor country, but developing some long-range missiles and supposedly working on a nuclear program as well.

GRANGE: Well, it was said a little bit earlier. We have other options besides military, thank God. And having served in Korea on a demilitarized zone, this is not an easy fight if it turns into a war. This is a tough country to take down, if in fact it went that far. It doesn't mean we have do it that way. And it would be a challenge.

BLITZER: Rob Sobhani, a lot of people noted that the president mentioned Iraq and North Korea. But there are a lot of people here in Washington, I have to tell you, who were surprised he included Iran among that trio of nations. Were you surprised?

SOBHANI: I wasn't surprised, frankly, simply because the true nature of what Iran has been up to revealed itself with their shipment of 50 tons of equipment, weapons to the Palestinians.

Keep in mind that that decision was probably sanctioned at the highest levels of the Iranian government, including the president of Iran, Mr. Khatami. The foreign policy adviser of Khatami is a gentlemen called Ali-Akbar Mohtashemi-Pur, who is the godfather of Hezbollah, after all. So Khatami and the supreme leader of Iran are speaking with one voice when it comes to anti-Israeli and their activities in support of Palestinian terrorism.

BLITZER: Rob Sobhani of Georgetown University and General David Grange, our military analyst, thanks to both of you for helping us better understand this situation.

And we will have more on what is called an the axis of evil ahead in our CNN "War Room": the former NATO supreme commander, retired General Wesley Clark among those joining me at 7:00 Eastern, 4:00 Pacific. You can participate. Go to my Web page: CNN.com/Wolf. Click on "Send Questions." I will get a few of those questions to my panelists. Also, that is, of course, where you can read my daily online column: CNN.com/Wolf.

And up next, up close and personal with the detainees at Guantanamo: How dangerous are they? An eyewitness perspective when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Checking this "News Alert": A terminal at San Francisco International Airport has been reopened after a security breach forced the evacuation of thousands of people. The incident began when screeners detected residue on a passenger's shoes that could -- could -- have come from explosives. The man left the area before further questioning, so authorities evacuated the terminal to search for him. He was not found.

And joining us now to you talk about airport security and whether anything can be done to prevent security breaches like the one today in San Francisco is Charlie LeBlanc. He is managing director of Air Security International.

Charlie, thanks for joining us.

What do they do at airports when a situation like this occurs?

CHARLIE LEBLANC, MANAGING DIRECTOR, AIR SECURITY INTERNATIONAL: Well, the problem seems to be is, these situations are occurring now weekly, if not almost every other day.

And it's just a lack of basic control functions at the checkpoints. And I'm confused on what has really changed since September 11 at the checkpoints. There is more staffing. There is National Guard people present and yet these situations are still occurring. And when you go back and look at them, they all have this common thread of just lack of control at the checkpoint.

BLITZER: And is it a lot different? Obviously, we never used to hear about these huge, thousands and thousands of passengers delayed, flights delayed. We saw it in Atlanta, of course, a few weeks ago, now in San Francisco. It's been going on all over the country. Since September 11, have the procedures been tightened up to that degree?

LEBLANC: Well, the procedures have tightened up a little bit. And, plus, we have a zero-tolerance policy.

But it seems that maybe the processes in adding some of the levels of security have caused more people to be involved in the decision-making process of clearing these terminals and under what circumstances you clear the terminals. And the example today was just another one of those where: Was the passenger aware that he was supposed to wait until these test results were completed?

I'm going to have to hopefully believe that the passenger just figured that his security screening was completed and he grabbed his bag and he walked away. Once again, if there is a process of screening going on, there needs to be control of that passenger so that person doesn't just walk away into a group of people.

BLITZER: You remember that incident at the Atlanta Airport when that one passenger forgot something, jumped over a group, went down those escalators. All of us have been through that airport in Atlanta. That's the kind of situation that literally can bring an entire area, if not half the country, to a standstill.

LEBLANC: Oh, you are right.

And the situations, once again, are, there are simple controls in place that seem to be ignored, whether it's the design of checkpoints, it's the design of exit lanes at checkpoints or just the manning of the checkpoints in how people are controlled.

But, as you said, these problems are starting to happen every other day. I was on board a flight last week, last Thursday night, coming in from Chicago to St. Louis. They had a similar situation where a gentleman ran through the exit lane, completely had to evacuate a terminal. We were stuck on our plane for over 2 1/2 hours. And these types of scenarios are occurring all the time. And we are not seeing a lot of proactive use coming from the FAA or TSA to kind of tighten down the control procedures at the checkpoints.

BLITZER: Charlie LeBlanc, of Air Security International, thanks for helping us understand this complicated situation. Appreciate it very much.

We will be right back. We'll talk to an eyewitness just back from Guantanamo Bay. He saw the detainees there.

Stay with us.

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BLITZER: Welcome back; 158 of the Afghan war detainees are in a detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba at U.S. Naval base there. Military officials say two detainees are being treated for malaria, but no detainees have contracted tuberculosis, despite earlier indications. Another detainee underwent surgery today for what is described as an infected wound.

For a firsthand account of how the detainees are doing, we are joined now by Congressman Steve Buyer. He is a member of the Veterans Affairs Committee. He recently toured Camp X-Ray at Guantanamo Bay.

Congressman, thanks for joining us.

You saw these detainees up close and personal. The notion that they are being held in cages like animals, what is your impression?

REP. STEVE BUYER (R), INDIANA: Well, I would say that they are being treated consistently with the core principles of the third Geneva Conventions of 1949.

Wolf, I served in the Persian Gulf War as the military lawyer at our western enemy prisoner of war camp. And we had over 44,000 detainees and prisoners. I asked the office of the secretary of defense to send myself down there with some other members, that, based on my experiences, I could go down there, give an assessment. I've dealt with the delegates and lawyers from the International Committee for the Red Cross. And I could give an up-close-and-personal assessment.

BLITZER: And, Congressman, a viewer sent us this e-mail question.

Maybe you can answer it.

BUYER: Sure.

BLITZER: Rod from Colorado Springs: "President Bush has declared a war on terrorism. Call it what you will. We are at war. Wouldn't that make the detainees prisoners of war?" BUYER: No, it would not. These individuals operated outside the laws of war and are not entitled to the special protections of prisoner-of-war status. The reason I call it a special status is, is that it immunizes the individual that you have captured. And you cannot prosecute them for murder, because killing, as awful as it is, as you know, Wolf, is the business of war.

These individuals, especially al Qaeda, is a terrorist organization. And there is not a nation in the world that has recognized a member of a subnational, international terrorist organization as a combatant entitled to the special protections of the Geneva Convention.

BLITZER: We have another e-mail for you, Congressman. Bren from San Angelo, Texas writes this: "When and how will the detainees in Cuba be disposed of? And what will, more than likely, be their future?"

BUYER: Right. I think that is a great question.

I think America thinks that these individuals have been brought to Guantanamo Bay for the purpose of some pretrial detentions. Right now, what is most important for us is to gather intelligence and to interview them, so the more we begin to understand al Qaeda, the network, their plans, their operations, that will assist us in the prosecution of the war here on terrorism. And that what's this is about.

BLITZER: You have spent some time with prisoners during the Gulf War.

BUYER: Yes.

BLITZER: If these prisoners, these detainees, don't want to talk, to cooperate during interrogations, what do you do?

BUYER: Well, I have -- I conducted and participated in interrogations during the Gulf War. And, at some point, everybody will talk. There are no rubber hoses. There are no beatings. There are no tortures. But we will be able to gather good intelligence and good information.

What is important here is, is that we have to follow the facts. When you follow the facts and then you apply the law, then we will be able to determine what we should do with them. Some, in fact, may even be sent back to Afghanistan. But, at some point, their status will become very clear. And then we will know what to do with them.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: I wanted to just add, Congressman, when I was at the White House yesterday, a senior administration told me and some other reporters that, so far, very few if any of these detainees are really talking during these efforts to get some information about terrorist operations that may still be in the works. BUYER: Well, you have to understand, these are the worst of the worst. They are the leaders. They are not these foot soldiers and drivers and clerks. So they are sophisticated. They're terrorists. They are true believers in their cause. And they would kill any of us if they had the opportunity. But, as of right now, they are scared. They don't know where they are. And I can understand, they are sitting in the cool Club Med breeze. And, at some point, though, they will begin to open up.

BLITZER: OK, Congressman Steve Buyer, speaking of that cool Club Med breeze, there's been a lot of wacky weather here in the United States.

Congressman, thanks for joining us.

But when we come back, we will take a look at what is going on weather wise around this country.

Stay with us.

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LOU DOBBS, "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE": I'm Lou Dobbs.

Coming up at the top of the hour: Congress threatening to sue the White House. And Enron has brought accounting practices into focus for investors. And they don't like what they see. We will be examining those issues and some of the companies at risk. The Fed holds interest rates steady. Stock prices shoot up nearly 150 points on the day. We will have all of that and a lot more for you at the top of the hour. Please join us.

BLITZER: Thank you very much, Lou. We certainly will.

T-shirt temperatures in Washington, D.C.? Snow in California? What is going on with the weather? Coming up: the culprit behind the crazy conditions. But first: a story for those on the job hunt. Here is one of the best 100 companies to work for, according to "Fortune" magazine.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEON HARRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The company's products may be free of many things, but Whole Foods employees are full of perks and benefits. The world's No. 1 natural and organic food chain operates in teams of workers that meet regularly to discuss employment issues and to solve problems. And that sense of team extends to compensation as well. Teams that help cut company costs share in the savings. Whole Foods has made the list each year, this year coming in at No. 48.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: It is a spectacular, beautiful day here in Washington, D.C., but there is snow in parts of Southern California. What is going on with our wacky weather?

Here is CNN meteorologist Jacqui Jeras.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST (voice-over): It all started in the West on Monday with snow in the San Francisco Bay area. A dusting fell on Malibu on Tuesday. And now Tucson has seen its first snowfall in almost 10 years.

In the Midwest, the problem is ice and heavy snow. Freezing rain has been falling in Kansas City since about noon on Tuesday. A glazing of a half-inch or more is possible. In Oklahoma City, there are major power outages because of ice collecting on power lines. Chicago, it's getting the first heavy snow of the season. And it's causing major airport delays. A foot of snow could be on ground by the end of Thursday.

While the West and Midwest are in the big chill, the East is baking in the sun, shorts and T-shirts in New York City and Washington -- and another record high, near 80 degrees, in Raleigh. Temperatures in much of the East are 20 to 30 degrees above normal.

(on camera): So why all the extremes? Well, our upper air patterns have been changing. In the upper atmosphere, the jet stream divides the cold air and the warm air. In the past week, we have had the ridge in the West allowing all of warm air to invade the region, keeping the cold air at bay. But, on Monday, our jet stream pattern went south, allowing the cold air to move in all the way into Southern California.

And with no weather systems between the Midwest and the Arctic Circle, that cold air pushes in and it moves underneath that warm air. When that happens where the two air masses meet, we get freezing rain and sleet.

(voice-over): And for those of you in the East and the Southeast enjoying the 60s and 70s, thinking you may have escaped the winter's wrath, well, seasonable temperatures will bring you back to reality by the end of the week.

Jacqui Jeras CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: I'll be back in one hour here in the CNN "War Room."

"LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" begins right now.

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