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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Americans Under Fire in Kandahar; John Walker Lindh Enters Not Guilty Plea
Aired February 13, 2002 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Now on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: Americans under fire. Bullets fly and tracers light up the sky at Kandahar airport.
A Taliban-American enters a not guilty plea. The family of a fallen CIA officer takes issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mike was a hero, not because of the way he died, but because of the way he lived. And I'd also like to say that John Walker is a traitor because of the way he lived.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: House Republicans play hardball on soft money, but is President Bush now ready for campaign finance reform? I'll ask Senator John McCain.
And Pulitzer Prize winner Bob Woodward takes us behind the scenes, as the White House goes to war against terrorism.
Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. In our news alert: Americans in Afghanistan engage in a firefight.
It happened just after nightfall at the Kandahar airport, when U.S. troops along the western perimeter reported incoming fire. Officials say no American troops were hurt. In a moment, we'll show you exclusive pictures of the firefight.
From the capital of Yemen, word that a suspected al Qaeda member blew himself up as police were closing in. Security sources tell CNN the man was wanted in connection with the bombing a year and a half ago of the USS Cole. We'll go live to our Brent Sadler in Yemen in just a few moments.
The American captured while fighting alongside the Taliban says he's not guilty of trying to kill Americans. John Walker Lindh pleaded not guilty today to all 10 charges filed against him. The judge has suggested the trial begin in August or September.
At the White House, a meeting of two presidents, and pledges of support. Pakistan's leader, General Pervez Musharraf, said his nation would continue fighting alongside the United States in the war against terrorism. And President Bush said the United States would try to help ease tensions between Pakistan and India.
Now back to our top story. In a gunfight in Afghanistan, that had U.S. troops at the Kandahar airport scrambling. They weren't the only ones. CNN's Martin Savidge and his crew bring us the action.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The shooting incident here at the Kandahar airport broke out around 7:30 local time. We were aware of bubbled explosions, the first to be heard, and then what sounded like semiautomatic weapons fire, and then occasionally machine gun fire. We ran to the front of the terminal looking towards the western perimeter, and there you could see red tracer fire exiting from the base here, going out beyond the perimeter.
Shortly thereafter, you could also see the illumination flares, launch (UNINTELLIGIBLE) mortars, casting a golden glow outside of the perimeter, beyond the distant runway. Again, there was more sounds of gunfire.
We're told since that time that, apparently what happened, soldiers of the 101st that were out there on the perimeter reported incoming fire to their positions, in where they were. They returned fire, and the fighting went on for about five minutes. The report from officers here is that there were no U.S. casualties. It is unclear if there were casualties on the other side.
BLITZER: That was Martin Savidge on the scene in Kandahar. And for more on what happened to those who were firing on U.S. troops, let's bring in our military affairs correspondent, Jamie McIntyre. He's, of course, over at the Pentagon. Jamie, what are you hearing about this firefight?
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, reports coming back to the Pentagon indication that, initially, after this firefight took place, the U.S. mobilized with the helicopters to scour the area. They did round up seven people out of the group of ten. Three got away. They questioned them, but upon further questioning, determined that they were, in fact, anti-Taliban fighters, and were not the source of the hostile fire. They were quickly released.
The U.S. stresses that their detention, temporarily, was not any kind of a mistake, it was a reasonable precaution to be taken as the U.S. was trying to figure out who exactly was firing on the base. Again, the military called this a militarily insignificant attack, in the sense that nobody was hurt in the -- at the Kandahar airport there, among the U.S. forces.
But it does illustrate that Afghanistan continues to be a dangerous battleground for U.S. troops.
BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon, thank you very much.
And not far away and still in that part of the world, police in Yemen say a suspected member of the al Qaeda network has blown himself up with a grenade after being cornered by security forces. The man was linked to the bombing of the USS Cole. Our Brent Sadler joins us now from the capital, Sana'a. That's in Yemen, and he has the very latest -- Brent.
BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Wolf. Well, Yemen security forces here are claiming a success in an ongoing manhunt for al Qaeda terror suspects hiding out in this country. Let me run you through the sequence of events just a couple of hours ago.
Yemeni security forces were encircling a house not too far away from my position here when they came under fire. They were hoping to take captive one Samir Ahmad Mohammed al-Hayda (ph), a Yemeni national. As they approached, they came under fire. Yemeni forces returned fire.
In the confusion, the wanted man escaped, jumped into a taxi, was pursued. While he was pursued, he jumped out of the taxi, pulled a grenade, made as if to throw the grenade, but it exploded before he was able to do anything with it against his pursuers, and he died in that brief action on the ground.
Yemeni security here say that they have information -- they're not showing it to us -- but they say they have information that the wanted man had trained in Afghanistan and was, indeed, a very important al Qaeda suspect -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Brent, how does this incident fit in with the overall search in Yemen for al Qaeda suspects, presumably including those who were announced released by the FBI here in the United States earlier in the week?
SADLER: Absolutely right question, Wolf. Very important. I'm told by Yemeni security sources here that there were very important alleged family links to al Qaeda. That one of the dead man's two sisters, they say, was married to one of the September 11 Pentagon suicide hijackers, a Yemeni Saudi.
The other sister of the dead man, according to Yemeni sources here, was married to one Mustapha al-Ansari, and his name appears on the list of 17 issued by the FBI in that worldwide terrorist alert, issued just on Tuesday. So very important connections seemingly there -- Wolf.
BLITZER: OK, Brent Sadler in Yemen. Thanks for that report.
Meanwhile, sooner rather than later: that's when a federal judge wants the trial of a Taliban-American to get under way. The accused, John Walker Lindh, was back in court this morning. But, as CNN's Deborah Feyerick tells us, not all the action happened in court.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This prison just outside Mazar-e Sharif, Afghanistan, links two American families. Two sons on opposite sides of the war on terror: accused Taliban soldier, John Walker Lindh and CIA agent, Mike Spann, murdered inside that prison during an uprising, hours after questioning Walker Lindh.
The two families were drawn together in a Virginia courtroom. Walker Lindh, quietly and politely, pleading "not guilty" to terrorism and conspiracy charges. Before he was led out, he exchanged a big smile with his father, sitting two rows behind.
Spann's widow, Shannon, sitting across the aisle, later called Walker Lindh a traitor.
SHANNON SPANN, MIKE SPANN'S WIDOW: He has certainly spent the last few years of his life with the belief that his extreme form of Islam sort of gives him the rights and the responsibility to wage jihad against the West, and specifically against Americans.
FEYERICK: After the arraignment, away from cameras, a dramatic moment in a courtroom hallway. Walker Lindh's father, Frank, came up to the Spann family. Extending his hand to father Johnny Spann, he said: "I'm sorry about your son. My son had nothing to do with it. I'm sure you understand."
Johnny Spann refused the handshake, turning his back as a court official tried to block Lindh from speaking to the family. Spann later saying the Taliban fighter bore responsibility for the September 11th attacks, and later, his son's death.
JOHNNY SPANN, MIKE SPANN'S FATHER: All of this is because of a group of terrorists, a group of terrorist thugs and their leaders and their followers, and their supporters.
FEYERICK (on camera): The defense team asked for a trial date of November, saying they would need time to go to Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen. Prosecutors said that would be all right, but the judge said no, saying this would go to trial in late August or early September; saying that would focus everyone's attention.
Both sides are expected to meet in court Friday afternoon to pick the trial date.
Deborah Feyerick, CNN Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Back to the plea itself, "not guilty," and the strategy behind it. Here to discuss the matter, the criminal defense attorney, Roy Black. He joins us from Coral Gables, Florida. And the former U.S. attorney and prosecutor, Joe DiGenova. He's here in Washington.
Let me begin with you, Roy. The notion that this would go to trial in August, September, almost exactly the first anniversary of the September 11th terrorist attacks. How would that play into selecting a jury and having a fair trial?
ROY BLACK, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think it would be very important. I would tell you, Wolf, I would have taken a much more radical approach here. I would demand an immediate trial. Walker Lindh's best chance is to move to suppress this confession. Why give the government another eight or nine months to build a case against him?
I think his best shot is to go right now, regardless of what the sentiment is, and take your best shot on the fact that the government's not well-prepared to try the case today.
BLITZER: What about that Joe DiGenova? You used to prosecute these kinds of cases.
JOE DIGENOVA, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, I agree with Roy a hundred percent. I think the demand for a speedy trial would have been a much more intelligence strategy. But remember, Wolf, Abdul Hamid -- which is the name that John Walker adopted under the al Qaeda forces -- Abdul Hamid's lawyer is Mr. Brosnahan.
Mr. Brosnahan wanted this case to be a political trial. He wants a lot of time to prepare, and he wants a lot of time, in my opinion, to ultimately do damage to his client. I think Roy is absolutely right, and I think a good defense attorney would have demanded an immediate trial.
BLITZER: The point being, though, that both sides could be jocking right now for a plea bargain, some sort of plea agreement, that would avoid the necessity of a trial, Roy. Wouldn't that be in the interest of John Walker Lindh?
BLACK: No, the people you want to get to the table is the United States government. I mean, Lindh is certainly willing to take a plea bargain. The problem is, you've got to convince Ashcroft and the prosecutors to offer something reasonable. If you put their feet to the fire, you say, look, I want to go to trial next week -- because what do I have to investigate?
Remember, the United States, they have FBI agents. They have the Army, they are interrogating people. They may come up with witnesses. I'd say push them real hard. And you know what? They may just offer you a decent plea to avoid a trial in a week or two.
DIGENOVA: I think Roy's theory is absolutely correct. I don't think that the federal judge in this case, would grant a trial next week. But I do think he might very well grant a trial a lot sooner than either the government or the defense has requested.
But I think Roy is thinking like a real defense attorney, and Mr. Abdul Hamid's defense attorney now, Mr. Brosnahan, is thinking like a politician.
BLITZER: What about the whole issue, Roy Black, of the evidence, the confession that John Walker Lindh, the man that Joe DiGenova keeps calling Abdul Hamid -- that John Walker Lindh confessed to an FBI agent who was interrogating him?
BLACK: But, Wolf, that confession is the keystone of this trial. The defense is going to move to suppress it. You could have a hearing very quickly on that, because who's going to testify? It's going to be Walker Lindh, the FBI agent who took the statement, and perhaps all the Army offices who handled Lindh. You don't need to go around the world finding witnesses to do that. And let me tell you something, if the defense put on a good motion to suppress, I'm willing to bet the government may come to the table with a reasonable plea bargain, just based on that.
BLITZER: What do you think about that, Joe?
DIGENOVA: I think Roy is absolutely right. I think the defense strategy here, which is to delay and create political discussion, is inimical to the interests of Abdul Hamid, or John Walker Lindh, as he's known. I think his interests are being undercut by the political interests of the defense team.
Roy is absolutely correct. There should be a deal in this case. Mr. Abdul Hamid should be absolutely negotiating a deal with the government. He should cooperate. He should be a witness against Osama bin Laden and against al Qaeda.
BLITZER: The slain CIA officer, who was killed in Mazar-e Sharif, where John Walker Lindh also turned out to be, Roy Black. How much of an impact do the parents coming into this arraignment -- the widow coming, the public statements, the agony, if you will, being expressed by these parents and loved ones?
BLACK: Well, Wolf, I've been on the other side. I know what kind of an impact that has. That's a huge impact. Particularly because this man was there interrogating prisoners, he's killed. I will tell you, that just highlights the problems that Walker Lindh has.
Now, he's not charged directly with Johnny Spann's (sic) death. But remember, he's in that group that's there in that prison, having the widow there, having the parents there. That's going to remind everybody in the courtroom, and particularly the jurors, when they come there, that a human life was lost here. Boy, that's going to focus things on a very high emotional plain.
DIGENOVA: In addition, Wolf, the killing of Mr. Spann will be part of the government's case. That will be proven. And so, even though he's not charged with that particular debt, the government will be able to prove that murder as part of the proof of the uprising, which Mr. Abdul Hamid John Walker Lindh participated in.
BLITZER: All right. That's it. Joe DiGenova, Roy Black, a former prosecutor, a criminal defense attorney. Both agreeing more than disagreeing -- in fact, agreeing almost completely -- on what should be done. Thanks to both of you for joining us.
BLACK: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: And our Web question of the day is this: do you think John Walker Lindh is guilty of charges that he conspired to kill Americans? You can vote at my Web pace, cnn.com/wolf. And while you're there, let me know what you're thinking. There's a "click here" icon on the left side of the page. Send me your comments. I'll read some of them on the air, as I do every day. Also, that's where you can read my daily on-line column. Once again, cnn.com/wolf.
Next here, campaign finance reform and the political theater it creates. I'll talk to the Senate's sponsor of reform, Senator John McCain.
Also, they skated for the gold, but will they take home the silver instead? Coming up: the great skate debate, and possible fallout in Salt Lake.
And we'll talk live to the U.S. skating medal hopeful, Tim Goebel.
Inside the White House: at war. Is President Bush close to attacking Iraq? I'll ask award-winning reporter Bob Woodward, of "The Washington Post".
And Rudy Giuliani handles a royal honor with a sense of humor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK: There are places in Manhattan where they would call me "Sir Rudy," and be very impressed with it. But in Brooklyn, if I started calling myself "Sir Rudy," they'd say, "hey, wait a second, knock that off!"
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Members of the House of Representatives have spent much of the day battling over campaign finance reform. Their work is expected to go well into the evening. President Bush says he backs finance reform that would improve the system. CNN Congressional correspondent Kate Snow joins me now. She has more on this debate -- Kate.
KATE SNOW, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, late into the night, maybe even early into tomorrow morning for this long debate. About an hour ago there was an initial vote on what's called the Shays-Meehan bill -- that's the campaign finance bill, as it's called in the House. And Democrats succeeded in getting 40 Republicans to vote along with them in favor of those reforms. They see that as a very good sign, but it is not over yet.
There are 13 amendments that they're debating right now on the floor. They'll be doing that until late tonight. At its base, here's what the Shays-Meehan bill does. It removes soft money contributions to the national political parties.
It would allow soft money -- and these are contributions made by corporations, by labor unions or wealthy individuals -- to go to state parties or to local parties, but could only be used for "get out the vote" drives, for those kinds of efforts. The bill would also ban certain commercials, certain TV political ads, in the run-up to elections as they deal with issues, but then talk about a candidate. Would not be able to be paid for with that soft money.
Opponents of the bill say that that provision would limit America's right to free speech. And today they also raised concerns about another item in this bill they call a potential loophole. They say it would allow Democrats to borrow hard money up front, spend that until the election and then pay it back using soft money ,even before the soft money then becomes illegal.
Democrats say there is no loophole at all. They say their opponents are simply grasping at straws -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And, Kate, the White House weighed in today. The president not happy about that provision. What's likely to happen, assuming that McCain-Feingold Shays-Meehan does pass, what's likely to happen at the White House?
SNOW: He didn't say anything about that particular provision. But Ari Fleischer, his spokesman, certainly did. The president latched on to another idea. He said that while he would support some kind of good campaign finance reform bill, he indicated that he would also support one of the amendments that they're talking about tonight. Has to do with when all these changes would go into effect.
Last night the reformers, the people supporting campaign finance reform, changed the effective date to be November 6, the day after the next election. The president said that might not be a good idea. He might support changing the dates so that it's effective tomorrow, on Valentine's Day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It seems like to me that if they get a bill out of the House of Representatives that improves the system, it ought to be in effect immediately. But we'll see what comes my way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SNOW: What's interesting is, if they pass that amendment, Wolf, that could gum up the whole system here, because that would mean the House bill would be different from what the Senate passed last summer, just in terms of the effective date. And that could throw the whole thing into legislative limbo -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Kate Snow on Capitol Hill. Thank you very much.
In an opinion piece in today's "Washington Post," Senator John McCain called the House votes on the Shays-Meehan bill a "reckoning time" for the House of Representatives. The Arizona Republican is, of course, the co-sponsor of the McCain-Feingold reform bill that passed in the Senate last summer. He joins me now live from Capitol Hill.
Senator McCain, thanks so much for joining us. Do you think that Shays-Meehan is going to pass, pretty much the way you passed it in the Senate? SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Well, I hope so. A lot of things can happen. I've always said that it's very difficult, and you can't underestimate the depth of the opposition. And so we'll just take it amendment by amendment, and perhaps we'll know very late tonight or tomorrow morning.
BLITZER: One of the key provisions that a lot of the opponents suggest -- not only the effort to ban soft money -- we'll put that graphic up on the screen -- banning so-called soft money contributions, which is the unrestricted sums that go to political parties, allowing soft money to state parties for get-out-the-vote.
But limiting political ads before an election -- a lot of people are suggesting that's not going to be constitutional, including the House majority whip, Tom DeLay. Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TOM DELAY (R-TX), MAJORITY WHIP: This bill doesn't contain real reform. Instead, this bill strips citizens of their political right and unconstitutionally attempts to regulate political speech.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: This whole issue of debate ads 60 days before an election -- is that going to be free speech if the McCain-Feingold Shays-Meehan passes?
MCCAIN: I think you should understand that, if any group or organization wants to run these ads, they're perfectly entitled to. They just have to use thousand-dollar contributions, or in the case of the Senate bill, $2,000 contributions. They're free to attack whoever they want to. They're free to do whatever they want.
What we're trying to do is stop organizations like a so-called Club for Growth that came into Arizona in a primary, spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in attack ads. We had no idea who they were, where their money came from. And that's what we're trying to prevent here, in the last 60 days. But if they want to run the ads, that's fine. They just have to raise the money, just like I do, in $1,000, $2000 donations.
So it's kind of a straw man. And I don't expect the opponents of the bill to argue anything but their belief and its unconstitutionality. I accept their opposition, with a great weight of judicial opinion. And experts that we can find say that they are constitutional. And I'm sure that they will be tested in court. But I'm confident of the constitutionality.
BLITZER: What do you make of the president's threat? He didn't exactly say he would veto it. but the White House press secretary, Ari Fleischer, came out and read a tough statement saying one of the provisions in Shays-Meehan -- put in late last night -- was not acceptable, as far as the president was concerned.
MCCAIN: Well, I don't know anything about that. I know the president had expressed his reluctance or opposition for a long time. During the campaign he opposed key elements of McCain-Feingold in debates that we had. I understood that. I hope that he will sign a bill, and that it's passed by both houses of Congress. And I continue to hope that he will.
BLITZER: What are the prospects that, if it does pass Shays- Meehan, although some amendments are attached -- what the supporters of Shays-Meehan call poison pills, what the supporters of those amendments call improvements -- comes to a House Senate conference committee? Some are suggesting that's the way it's going to be killed this year. Can you make it survive a House-Senate conference committee?
MCCAIN: I think it would be very difficult, Wolf. That's why we're trying to hold the line here and defeat these so-called poison pill amendments. Many of them may be very virtuous. But obviously the strategy of the opponents is to pass amendments which would make the bill different.
For example, opponents of banning soft money, propose an amendment to ban all soft money, and voted for it. I don't think that's because they found themselves on the road to Damascus. It's clear what the strategy is. And we hope we can beat back these so- called poison pill amendments, and we'll see.
BLITZER: Senator McCain, before we let you go, tell our viewers about the little bandage on your nose. We know about the surgery that took place last week. It seems like you're making a pretty speedy recovery?
MCCAIN: Yes. Hopefully I can regain some decent appearance. I would say good looks, but I don't want to deceive the audience that much. I'm doing fine. It was a minor operation, particularly as compared to the ones I had before. And it's something that I'll be battling for a long time, but can easily be contained with early detection and early treatment. And I can assure you I'll be doing that.
BLITZER: Aren't you going to tell our viewers, give them some advice, what to avoid when they go outside?
MCCAIN: Please avoid the sun at the worst times of the day. Wear sunscreen. Make sure your kids wear sunscreen. And if you have any discoloration of any kind, go see your dermatologist and see what he or she has to say. Because early detection is really the key to this. It is a very, very controllable situation. It's not, of course, when it's left untreated.
BLITZER: All right, Senator John McCain.
MCCAIN: Thanks, Wolf.
BLITZER: With a little bit of a public service announcement for our viewers out there. Thanks for joining us.
And if you thought Mike Tyson wouldn't fight again, better think again. Coming up: the city that may play host to his next match.
And later, a scary fall for the queen mum.
And behind the scenes at the White House: how is President Bush running the country and the war? "The Washington Post's" Bob Woodward joins me, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
In a moment, Pakistan's president, we'll have a report on his visit to the White House; also, Bob Woodward on President Bush's inner circle.
First, the "News Alert": A group of attackers opened fire today on the airport in Kandahar, Afghanistan. And American troops responded with machine guns and Apache helicopters. There is no word on who the attackers were. No U.S. troops were injured in the incident.
In another part of Afghanistan, a U.S. soldier was killed. Pentagon officials say it was an accident involving a heavy piece of machinery. They say the equipment fell on top of the soldier, who was stationed at the Bagram Air Base just north of the capital, Kabul.
The search for kidnapped American journalist Daniel Pearl goes on in Pakistan despite word yesterday that his release might be imminent. Police in Karachi are keeping up their intense questioning of the man believed to be responsible for Pearl's abduction. Yesterday, Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh told investigators that Pearl is still alive. But today, police are calling him a hard nut to crack.
Daniel Pearl's kidnapping was part of the discussion this morning between President Bush and the leader of Pakistan, President Pervez Musharraf. The two men sat down for talks at the White House. The Pakistani president told Mr. Bush he's reasonably sure that Pearl is alive and he hopes to secure his release.
The war on terrorism and the economic aid promised to Pakistan were some of the issues on the table at today's meeting between the two presidents.
Our White House correspondent, Kelly Wallace, joins us now live with more -- Kelly.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, both men looking to get something out of this meeting: President Bush looking for Pakistani President Musharraf's continued support on the war on terror, especially as it moves beyond Afghanistan; the Pakistani leader, for his part, looking for more financial help, a way to go back to his critics at home to show why it was important to side with the U.S. in this campaign against terrorism.
The Pakistani leader getting some, not all of what he is looking for: help to relieve about $1 billion of his country's $3 billion debt, and promises of more economic assistance down the road. On another issue, though, tensions between his country, Pakistan, and India. The Pakistani leader wanted the U.S. to take on a mediating role to resolve tensions between the two countries over that disputed region of Kashmir, But Mr. Bush making the case today that his role will be trying to get the two sides talking directly to each other to resolve their differences.
Now, the president, President Bush, addressing another issue, repeating his warning to Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, telling reporters earlier today that no option is off the table, including military action, to deal with Mr. Saddam Hussein and his weapons of mass destruction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Make no mistake about it. If we need to, we will take necessary action to defend the American people, and I think that statement was clear enough for Iraq to hear me, and I will reserve whatever options I have -- I will keep them close to my vest. I'm -- President -- or Saddam Hussein needs to understand I'm serious about defending our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Wolf, as you know, Secretary of State Colin Powell and others have indicated their preference for trying to resolve this through diplomatic and political means, but clearly the message from Mr. Bush: no option off the table when it comes to dealing with Iraq -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Kelly Wallace at the White House, thank you very much.
And the terrorist attacks on the United States changed the direction of the Bush administration. Bob Woodward has given "Washington Post" readers an impressive look inside the White House of those chaotic days after the attacks. In a special series, he takes a look at the Bush inner circle. Who's in and who's out?
Bob Woodward joins me now live to talk a little bit about that series.
Bob, thanks for joining us.
Let's immediately get to what Kelly left of off on Iraq. The president has got to make a major decision, presumably soon: Does the U.S. strike against Iraq?
Who does he consult? Who has his real voice when it comes to making that kind of decision?
BOB WOODWARD, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Well, I think it's an inner voice. He operates on his visceral reactions.
And, on September 11, he kind of realized this is a new situation we are in. And when George Tenet, the CIA director, that night said, "We have a terrorist al Qaeda problem in 60 countries," Bush said, "Let's pick them off one at time." I think from that statement flows much policy.
Of course, the question is: How do you pick them off? And he is going to listen to everyone on Iraq. But you need to plan. And I have heard no one say, "This is the plan that will work to oust Saddam Hussein."
BLITZER: So, presumably, then, he is not ready to sign off on an action order any time in the immediate few days?
WOODWARD: I think that's correct.
And then you get into the summer. As you well know from your Pentagon days, you don't want a war in the desert in the summer.
BLITZER: The inner circle, Cheney obviously someone who has got a key role to play, Colin Powell, Rumsfeld, Condoleezza Rice -- you mentioned the CIA director, George Tenet. But who really is the person or persons he listens to the most?
WOODWARD: I think, oddly enough, he listens to them all and then makes his own decision.
And I think, on the positive side, you could say he is getting the best from all of them. There are some disagreements. What will be interesting, and the real test is, when there are bad days, when things don't go right, when there are serious setbacks in this war, then who is he going to lean on? Probably Dick Cheney.
BLITZER: And I have heard conflicting reports about how much of a role his father, the 41st president, actually plays in helping him make up his mind. What have you learned?
WOODWARD: Not enough. Dan Balz and I worked on that very hard and, quite frankly, didn't crack the code. There are some communications there. How substantive they get we could not find out. It would seem to me it's quite natural. Your father had the job not that long ago. In a wartime situation, you would call up and say, "Hey, dad, what do you think, off the top of are your head?" But we didn't get there.
BLITZER: Does the president, in your reporting, does he seem to instinctively side with the so-called hard-liners, the Rumsfelds, the Wolfowitzes over at the Pentagon, or the diplomats, the Colin Powells at the State Department, when there seems to a division of opinion?
WOODWARD: I think so often as journalists we are looking for the: What is the fight? And who is on what side? And who is going to win?
I think one point Bush has made very clear in this war, it's a multifront war. You are going to use diplomacy, the military, covert action, financial pressure. And so you implement them all and you find a way and a mix that will be effective. In terms of Iraq, I don't think they have found one.
BLITZER: A lot of our viewers will remember the book you wrote about Gulf War, "The Commanders." This book is just out now once again in paperback, an excellent book.
But the Gulf War, the way his father behaved during the Gulf War has to have a huge impact on his decision-making process now.
WOODWARD: Well, I think the current President Bush realizes that you don't deter terrorists. They want to die in their cause. In fact, they crave death. And so the only way to win is to kill him, to destroy him. And that is the umbrella policy we have now.
BLITZER: All right, Bob Woodward, good reporting, you and Dan Balz. Got to give him credit, too. Excellent series, is it going to be a book?
WOODWARD: I'm doing a book on Bush the first 18 months, but we are not there yet.
BLITZER: All right, when will that be released?
WOODWARD: When I finish it.
(LAUGHTER)
BLITZER: All right, we will be waiting for it, as we do all your books. Thanks a lot, Bob.
WOODWARD: Thanks.
BLITZER: And the accolades aren't over for New York's former mayor. Coming up: the meeting with Her Majesty. And later: an accident involving Queen Elizabeth's mom and the Olympic controversy that may have the judges facing judgment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Britain's queen mother is recovering from an injury. She slipped and cut her arm in a sitting room at the royal estate in Eastern England. A doctor was called and dressed the wound. The queen mother, who is 101 years old, still plans to attend Friday's funeral services for her daughter, Princess Margaret.
The queen mum's other daughter today knighted some commoners from the Colonies -- summoned from the United States: Rudy Giuliani.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): There he is: the New York Yankee in Queen Elizabeth's court.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For services after the September 11 tragedy, the most excellent order of the British empire to be an honorary knight commander, civil division, the honorable Rudolph Giuliani, lately mayor of New York.
BLITZER: With a proper bow and rarely-seen humility, the mayor with the common touch is touched by royalty. There was no sword on the shoulder. That ceremony is saved for British subjects who kneel before the queen. And, as we all know, Rudy Giuliani is a stand-up guy. That's why he was honored today.
RUDOLPH GIULIANI (R), MAYOR OF NEW YORK: She congratulated me on my leadership during a very horrible time.
BLITZER: As he was so often after September 11, Giuliani today was flanked by two of his top lieutenants: former Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik and former Fire Commissioner Thomas Von Essen, who became honorary commanders of the British empire.
But prior to the 9/11 attacks, Giuliani was best known in Britain as the no-nonsense New York mayor who cracked down on crime. But in guiding New York City through the World Trade Center attacks, Giuliani's rough edge transformed into steely resolve that got people talking on both sides of the pond about his political future.
GIULIANI: Right now, I'm walking. I'm not running. And we'll see what happens in politics in the future. And I am a very, very strong and dedicated supporter of President Bush.
BLITZER: More comfortable at the ballpark than at Buckingham Palace, Giuliani made it clear he won't let the royal treatment go to his head.
GIULIANI: There are places in Manhattan where they would call me "Sir Rudy" and be very impressed with it. But in Brooklyn, if I started calling myself "Sir Rudy," they would say: "Hey, wait a second. Knock that off or we will knock it off you," something like that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And Giuliani joins former Presidents George Bush and Ronald Reagan and Gulf War General Norman Schwarzkopf and Colin Powell as recent U.S. figures knighted by the queen.
And it's become a hallmark of the figure skating world: controversy. The Olympics, the judges are under fire in a new Cold War. Find out how it is affecting the skaters when I talk to U.S. medal hopeful Tim Goebel.
That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
At the Winter Olympics, the talk is still over a figure skating competition that took place two days ago, with many fans and experts now judging the judges. In many people's minds, the performance of the Canadian pair was good enough for gold, nearly flawless. The Russians were scored higher, but just barely, even though one of them bobbled a landing.
Canada's Olympic delegation has demanded an investigation. And the American referee has made an official allegation of collusion, all of which has prompted the International Skating Union to undertake an assessment of judging procedures.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OTTAVIO CINQUANTA, PRESIDENT, INTERNATIONAL SKATING UNION: Of course I was and I am embarrassed. Because of the presence of so many media representatives, it is self-explanatory. But I can tell you that I do not think to be in presence of what you say, the word you use it, a condition of scandal or something like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: CNN's Rusty Dornin joins us now from Salt Lake City with reaction to the announcement -- Rusty.
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, competitive figure skating has always invited a bit of drama and intrigue. And this controversy is definitely the talk of the town.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): Ringside in Downtown Salt Lake, visitors say forget about security concerns. All the buzz here is about which pair deserves the gold.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I was there. I was 15th row up. And the Canadians blew away their performance. It was one of the most amazing performances. When it was over, there was standing ovation immediately. The Canadians knew they had the gold. Everyone knew they had the gold.
DORNIN: But they didn't. Across town, Canadians gathered to watch reporters grill the president of the International Skating Union. Some don't believe an inquiry will change things. Others are a bit more optimistic.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It sounds like they are certainly digging into it. And we'll see if they can do anything about it. I hope that something can be done about it.
DORNIN: Allegations that judges might have made a deal doesn't surprise some visitors.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's sad if they really are trading votes, because that's what you are hearing, that the judges are trading votes. And I think is that sad. I think that it should be all won on merit.
DORNIN: While cries of unfair seem to dominate here, most believe what's done is done.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know it's a disappointment for the two, but we got a silver medal. We shouldn't cry over spilt milk. We will get the gold next time.
(END VIDEOTAPE) DORNIN: Now, the Canadian Olympic Committee just asked in a recent press conference for an independent review. And Skate Canada is launching an appeal -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Rusty Dornin in Utah, thank you very much.
Others, though, are willing to cut the judges a little bit of slack, saying figure skating is about details. One of them is American Tim Goebel. He has a shot at a medal tomorrow night.
Tim, thanks for joining us.
How is this controversy affecting your preparation?
TIM GOEBEL, U.S. OLYMPIC SKATER: Well, it isn't affecting me at all. To be honest, I have just come in here and really focused on doing my own job. And I am halfway through with that, so, hopefully, I will have a good run tomorrow.
BLITZER: What about the other skaters, your colleagues and friends on the U.S. team?
GOEBEL: I didn't see either of their performances last night in their entirety, but I heard that Todd had a little bit of a rough skate. But I'm sure that, as a team, we will pull up tomorrow.
BLITZER: What do you make, though, of the whole controversy? I know you can't comment on the actual judges, but what do you make of controversy that has erupted?
GOEBEL: Well, I think -- I saw Jamie and Dave skate their performance. I did, however, not see the Russians. And just what a thrill for Jamie and Dave to have such an amazing performance. And, you know, gold, silver or bronze, they will take away such a wonderful Olympic experience. And I'm thrilled for them.
BLITZER: And you have a pretty amazing performance. You are now third, I take it, after the short program. Tomorrow night is the big night. What do you have to do?
GOEBEL: I just have to go and skate a very clean program tomorrow. I have to hit the jumps and really try to get a good response out of the crowd. The crowd has been so supportive and so helpful through the short program. I hope to carry to momentum through tomorrow.
BLITZER: You are the first skater that has a done a quadruple salchow in combination with a triple toe-loop. Tell our viewers how you do that and what it is.
GOEBEL: A quadruple salchow is a jump that I take off my left foot. I get up into the air. I spin around four times and land on my right. It's something that I was the first in the world to do. And it's such a thrill for me to do my signature move and land it well at the Olympics. BLITZER: And when you do that, you take a certain risk. No one else has ever done that. When you go up there, how do you prepare for that kind of incredible move?
GOEBEL: Really it's just repetition. It's something I have been landing for about three years now in competition. And I have a certain level of comfort with it at this point. Obviously, when we are trying quads and we're doing the more difficult things, there is always risk involved. But it's a risk I'm willing to take and it's something that I feel pretty confident that I can land under pressure.
BLITZER: And so you say you have been doing this for three years, so it's something that is old. Has anyone else ever done it or were you just the first?
GOEBEL: I was the first to land a quad sal in an ISU competition, but there were, I think, two other ones last night. I'm not sure. But it has been done by more than just myself over the years.
BLITZER: But you were the first. And we want to congratulate on that and wish you a lot of good luck tomorrow. I'm sure a lot of people, a lot of Americans are rooting for you. I know I'm one of them. Thanks for joining us.
GOEBEL: Thank you very much. Thank you. I appreciate it. Take care.
BLITZER: Thank you.
And this note: "LARRY KING LIVE" tonight will have an exclusive interview with the Canadian pairs skaters. And that's at 9:00 Eastern, 6:00 Pacific.
When come back, what should -- well, actually, let's talk about what is happening in Georgia right now. A Georgia lawmaker says he is outraged by the action of the Georgia Boxing Commission to give Mike Tyson a boxing license. Austin Scott plans a resolution condemning the commission. Tyson has been trying to find a venue for a heavyweight title fight with Lennox Lewis since Nevada officials rejected Tyson's license request last month. Let's see if they actually wind up fighting in Atlanta.
Let's go to New York now and get a preview of "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE." That, of course, begins right at the top of the hour -- Lou.
LOU DOBBS, "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE": Thank very much, Wolf.
Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina will be our exclusive guest tonight. We will be looking at the boardroom battle over her plan to merge with Compaq. We will also discuss conditions in the global energy markets. Sir John Brown of oil giant BP is our guest tonight. We will have a special report for you on new evidence in the Enron investigation that could, could spell trouble for Jeffrey Skilling and other former Enron executives. All of that and we will be telling you about another triple-digit rally in the Dow at the top of the hour.
Please join us -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Lou. We certainly will.
The American who fought with the enemy, John Walker Lindh: After the break, we'll have the results of our question of the day. "Do you think he is guilty of conspiring to kill Americans?"
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's take a look at our Web site poll question of the day: "Do you think John Walker Lindh conspired to kill Americans?" The response overwhelmingly yes: 81 percent yes, only 19 percent no. We'll have another question tomorrow at CNN.com/Wolf. That's also where you can drop me a line, a message.
In fact, here is one message I received from Marcy in Cary, North Carolina: "I am in my mid-50s and I remember the Iran hostage crisis very well. When I heard President Bush lump Iran and North Korea together with Iraq in his State of the Union speech, I cringed. I believe he made a serious mistake."
I'll be back in an hour here in the CNN "War Room." We'll have a debate: Should the United States take on Iraq next in the war against terror?
Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" begins right now.
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