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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Terrorist Plot in Italy Foiled?; Israel Vows 'New Type of Response'; Al Qaeda May be Splitting Apart
Aired February 20, 2002 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Now on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: a roundup in Rome has the U.S. embassy on edge. Why there is also a worry over the water supply.
Al Qaeda may be splitting apart.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: They are not doing well. They are finding it harder to raise money, they're finding it harder to recruit people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Or, are the terrorists just regrouping?
After the latest deadly attack by Palestinians, Israel vows a "new type of response" and gives a deadly hint of what may lie ahead.
And the tapes tell a chilling story...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tower, look out to the south. There is an aircraft crashing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Say again?
An aircraft just crashed just south of the field.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An aircraft just crashed south of the field.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An aircraft crashed south of (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you see the fireball?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: The last moments of flight 587.
I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Topping our news alert: was an attack against a U.S. target foiled? Italian authorities say they have arrested four Moroccan men who had a map of Rome with the U.S. embassy circled. Italian media report the suspects possessed a cyanide compound. They also had a map of Rome's underground water system. We'll have much more on this developing story in just a moment.
Israeli government sources say their nation is now in a "full- scale guerrilla war" with the Palestinians. At least 16 Palestinians were killed today in the West Bank and Gaza, after six Israeli soldiers died in a Palestinian ambush. And the Israeli prime minister's security cabinet has approved what it calls a "new type of response" to Palestinian attacks. More on this coming up as well.
Two hours from now, President Bush will be on his way to China. It's the final stop of his Asian trip, which has taken him to Japan and South Korea. He also caught a glimpse of North Korea from the world's most fortified border, the demilitarized zone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They have a peace museum there, and the axes that were used to slaughter two U.S. soldiers are in the peace museum. No wonder I think they're evil.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Meantime, the chairman of the U.S. joint chiefs of staff is winding up his trip to Central Asia with a meet-and-greet with U.S. troops in Kandahar, Afghanistan. General Richard Myers says there is more to be done before those troops leave, including helping that nation form an army.
Now back to our top story, and reports that the U.S. embassy, on the beautiful Via Vittorio Veneto, in Rome, may have been the target of a terrorist action. For more on what authorities are saying and what precautions they're taking, we turn to our Rome bureau chief, Alessio Vinci -- Alessio.
ALESSIO VINCI, ROME BUREAU CHIEF: Well, hello, Wolf. When the police arrested the four Moroccans in an earlier raid here on Tuesday morning here in Rome, news leaked to the Italian media that the four suspects were indeed planning a terrorist attack against the U.S. embassy here in Rome.
And indeed, Italian investigators have told U.S. embassy staff here that they were investigating the case, with the assumption that there was a threat against the U.S. embassy in Rome. And according to -- also Italian, -- reports, during that raid, police found a map of Rome with the location of the U.S. embassy clearly marked. And another map indicating the water supply system underground in Rome.
Also the news reports indicated that a large quantity of cyanide, as much of 10 pounds of it, had been recovered in that raid. And therefore, most of the Italian media here were speculating that the suspects may have been planing to poison the water supply to the U.S. embassy. It has emerged, however, later on, that what the police have recovered from that apartment in that raid was not pure cyanide, but a derivative of it. Far less toxic, we understand, from the original cyanide that people thought was recovered. And we understand also, from experts that have analyzed the substance, that in its current form, the substance was not able to poison the water supply of such a large city as Rome.
The authorities who have looked at the substance called it -- the derivative of it, called (UNINTELLIGIBLE) cyanide potassium. And they're saying that only through a complex system it could have been made very poisonous to the consumers -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Alessio, this isn't the first time that the U.S. embassy in Rome may have been a target of a suspected terrorist operation. Give us some context. How does this compare with the last incident, which wasn't that long ago?
VINCI: That's correct. A similar threat was leveled against the U.S. embassy at the beginning of 2001 here in Rome. That was a far more credible threat, according to Italian and U.S. officials here. It was so credible, as a matter of fact, that at that time, the U.S. ambassador at that time, Thomas Borgeta, had ordered the evacuation of the entire embassy, and it remained closed for several days.
Today when I asked U.S. embassy officials here whether that was being taken into consideration, they said that that situation had not crossed their minds. And the embassy has remained open throughout the day and will remain open in the coming days. Back to you.
BLITZER: Thank you very much. Alessio Vinci, our Rome bureau chief, reporting live from Rome.
Meanwhile, U.S. investigators consider the Islamic cultural center in Milan as al Qaeda's main European base -- an allegation that Muslim leaders in that city deny. What cannot be denied, though, is that al Qaeda no longer appears to have an accessible leader. Joining me now to talk about that is Mike Swetnam. He heads the Potomac Institute for Policy Studies, here in the nation's capital. He's also author of the book -- co-author, that is -- of "Osama Bin Laden's Al Qaeda: Profile of a Terrorist Network."
Your co-author, Yonah Alexander. Mike, thanks for joining us. What's your take? You hear this report of this suspected plot against the U.S. embassy in Rome?
MIKE SWETNAM, POTOMAC INSTITUTE FOR POLICY STUDIES: It's certainly not a surprise that more terrorist incidents are being planned and attempted. This one doesn't seem to be a very credible one. Surely the terrorists did not choose a very effective weapon in a cyanide derivative, instead of direct cyanide.
But certainly, it's something that we're going to have to get used to, that there are terrorist cells out there, they are plotting more incidents. And unless they are intercepted, as they were in this case by the Italian authorities, we're going to suffer more losses. BLITZER: And your background in U.S. government intelligence operations, when you say a cyanide derivative wouldn't be as potent as pure cyanide, is that what you're saying?
SWETNAM: That's correct. Anything that's targeted for a water supply, of course, is going to be diluted many, many folds in a large supply. So you need something that's very effective, very dense and very poisonous. Cyanide is not that poisonous in a very, very large water supply. It probably wouldn't have been as effective as a weapon, anyway. A cyanide derivative is probably not at all effective as a weapon, unless you serve it up in a spoon to your intended victim.
BLITZER: As you know, al Qaeda now seems to be splintered without a leader. Osama bin Laden, if he's still alive, on the run. His top lieutenants, Ayman Al-Zawahiri and the others, on the run. Can this organization still be effective though, as a splintered organization with cells, perhaps not operating from a base, from a headquarters?
SWETNAM: Oh, absolutely. We must remember that al Qaeda is not so much an organization, as an organization of organizations. It is made up of the Hezbollah, the Islamic Jihad. A couple dozen other organizations all banned together to what we call al Qaeda. So, just because we've made it inconvenient for the leadership of al Qaeda to operate, all of the organizations that make up al Qaeda -- the Hezbollah and Hamas -- are very active in Palestine and Israel today.
Islamic Jihad is active in Malaysia and Singapore. These other terrorist organizations around the world will not stop in their efforts to perform that terror around the world, in absence of al Qaeda. And I suspect that a leader will rise up out of one of these organizations, if Osama bin Laden does not himself reappear.
BLITZER: So you're saying that even without Osama bin Laden as the CEO, the chairman of the board, if you will, of this al Qaeda network operating at full strength right now, there's still a lot of terrorist capability that these al Qaeda operatives? And the president spoke of tens of thousands of them still at large in, what, some 60 countries?
SWETNAM: That's correct. All around the world, in 60 countries around the world more than 30 organizations banded together to form al Qaeda. That all still exists, is all still operating. The fact that we don't hear from them right now is just the terrorist way. They look to attack us when we're not prepared. Attack us in places that are not as secure.
The fact that we're on alert today, that we're at war, and that we're looking for them, means that they will probably wait until the time is easier for them to have another attack.
SWETNAM: And the fact that money may be in short supply, if some of the channels of money have been frozen by various international banking systems? SWETNAM: I don't believe that. I don't believe that their money flow has been interrupted to a very great extent at all. I know we've had some successes at interrupting the money flow. A great deal of money for terror, particularly in the Far East, comes from drugs. And the flow of drugs and opium around that part of the world has not been interrupted. I suspect that they have enough money to attack us if they need to.
BLITZER: OK, Mike Swetnam. He's the author of the book, "Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda." Thanks for joining us.
SWETNAM: Thank you.
BLITZER: We'll have much more on al Qaeda and the latest intelligence information when I speak live with the former CIA director, James Woolsey, here in the CNN "WAR ROOM." That's at 7:00 Eastern, 4:00 Pacific.
Now to the seemingly endless cycle of violence in the Middle East. The Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and his cabinet says it's taking a new approach to Palestinian threats. Our Jerusalem bureau chief, Mike Hanna, has the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIKE HANNA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Emerging now from this conflict, all parties agree: a classic guerrilla war. On the one side, a nation state with immensely powerful conventional forces: aircraft, tanks and highly-trained combat soldiers. On the other side, small groups of armed militants relying on speed and surprise, and their knowledge of the local terrain, conducting short, sharp engagements before merging anonymously into the surrounding population.
Their targets: Israeli soldiers and settlers living in the areas occupied by Israel in 1967, beyond the green line that marks the boundary of these captured territories. A senior Israeli military source says it's too soon to say whether this is a conscious shift in Palestinian strategy. The source adding, the suicide terror attacks within Israeli cities, that have been a major part of Palestinian action in the past, remain an ever-present possibility.
But two events in particular over the past week have led to an intense Israeli re-examination of its military operations: the unprecedented destruction of an Israeli tank last week in Gaza, and the well-planned attack in which six Israeli soldiers were killed in the West Bank Tuesday night -- indications of a stepping-up of Palestinian action against defined military targets.
And while the Israeli response to these attacks has been largely conventional in nature, the Sharon government has confirmed that it is exploring new options, in particular, using small groups of special forces on a widespread basis.
RA'ANAN GISSIN, SENIOR SHARON ADVISER: It's not an offensive. I would rather call it, or define it, as counter-guerrilla warfare. Since a guerrilla warfare was launched at us. And I think what happened, last night signifies a major escalation in this phase of the war. And we are entitled to take that kind of action on a broad spectrum, in order to meet that threat and stem it and stop it.
HANNA: From a member of Yasser Arafat's own Fatah movement, the insistence that the armed struggle will not be stopped.
MARWAN BARGHOUTI, FATAH LEADER: I think, as we know during the last weeks, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and other groups targeting the Israeli military occupation, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and to continue this.
HANNA: The funerals of Israelis killed in the conflict continue, as do the funerals of Palestinians. The death toll is rising at an unprecedented pace.
(on camera): There has been much talk in the months of ongoing conflict of the possibility of war. Now the specter of war, even though not of a conventional nature, has become a reality. Mike Hanna, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: So, will there ever be peace in the Middle East? Is there anyone who can turn the two sides back to the negotiating table? Let's turn to Representative Jerry Nadler of New York, and James Zogby Of the Arab-American Institute," here in Washington, hopefully get some answers.
First of all, to you, Jim Zogby. When I interviewed Secretary of State Colin Powell on Sunday and asked him why isn't General Anthony Zinni, the U.S. special envoy, going back to try to achieve some sort of cease-fire, he said that Yasser Arafat, the Palestinian Authority president, has to take more steps to stop the terrorism first.
Is that the appropriate U.S. approach that should be engaged right now?
JAMES ZOGBY, ARAB-AMERICAN INST.: No, that's practically an abdication of the U.S. role. And I think that it is a real problem. There are two constants here, Wolf. One is this brutal occupation has just got to end, because no one is benefiting from it. And the second is that the U.S. role is not what it can be.
Look, there is enough fault to go around on both sides. I'm not going to play, as I think the congressman might, a blame game. I'm going to say that both sides have problems. But it's the U.S. that can pull the parties apart. And frankly, what we ought to be doing right now, is, I think, moving in a very dramatic direction to pull the parties apart. And it may even include international peace- keeping forces.
BLITZER: Jerry, as you know, you've studied the region for years. Without the United States being directly and aggressively involved, very little is going to happen in terms of the peace process out there. REP. JERRY NADLER (D), NEW YORK: Well, I don't think there is a peace process right now, unfortunately. The peace process was destroyed when Yasser Arafat walked away from the prime minister of Iraq's offer of a Palestinian state in the entire West Bank and Gaza, and even part of Jerusalem. He walked away and he decided to start a war. And the war has been escalating ever since.
I think the proper role of the United States at this point is to stand fast by our ally, Israel, and to make very clear to the Palestinians that they're not going to get anywhere with this. And contrary of what Mr. Zogby said, the main issue is not the occupation. The main issue is the continuing effective Palestinian refusal to agree to live in peace with Israel.
When they agree to live in peace in Israel, the occupation will end and Israel will withdraw from most, not all, maybe all -- of the occupied territory.
ZOGBY: Congressman, you just said that Arafat turned down getting back the whole West Bank, and now they're just going to get most. I think your narrative is wrong, there. And I do think the United States has a much more dramatic role to play. If we're going to stand by and let this turn into Chechnya, I think everybody in the end is going to pay. Israel, the Palestinian and, I think, U.S. interests in the region.
NADLER: I don't know what the U.S. can do at this point. We certainly should help make sure that Arafat and company don't import Iranian arms to escalate the conflict, as they are doing. But the fact of the matter is, I also think that any Israeli government, in light of the war that's been -- that was started by Arafat and waged against Israel since -- for the last year or so, would be crazy to make as generous an offer as Barak made last year.
ZOGBY: I know that's how you view it, Congressman. But that's not how Palestinians and I think the rest of the Arab world views it. They view, in fact, the Palestinians as living under a rather terrifying occupation, and an aggressive occupation, which chews up more land in settlement building and road building every single day. And the fact is...
(CROSSTALK)
ZOGBY: Congressman, let me finish, OK? I think the problem here is that America has interests that go beyond whatever the Palestinians or whatever the Israelis want or do. And I think that our interests right now are, yes, to rout out terrorism and yes, to work closely with allies in the region. But to do that, we need the credibility of a peace settlement that we helped broker. And that means we have to take a more aggressive posture.
NADLER: The United States took a very aggressive posture and I supported it, when it tried to negotiate and broker peace in 1999 and 2000.
ZOGBY: And I did, too. NADLER: Yes, you did. And a very generous offer was made. And Arafat may not have liked that offer. But instead of starting a war, he should have put a counter-offer on the table. The fact of the matter is, they then started a war, it's been escalating. And until the Palestinians stop the attacks -- if the Palestinians would stop the terrorist attacks, then the Israelis could ease up, stop the roadblocks between the towns in the West Bank, go back to the situation as it was a few years ago and go back to the negotiating table.
ZOGBY: Unfortunately, I don't think the Ariel Sharon government wants to do that. And I think that's what Palestinians are rather convinced of. And I would say that many Israelis are convinced of that, too, because the peace movement in Israel is gaining new ground, and Israeli reservists are refusing to serve. And Israeli former generals are saying, we ought to get out of the West Bank and Gaza.
NADLER: The problem with what -- Israel cannot withdraw unilaterally from the West Bank and Gaza without proper security guarantees, demilitarization, all the rest.
(CROSSTALK)
NADLER: The problems with what you're saying is that Israel -- is that the Palestinians, for all practical purposes, control Israeli politics. It was the -- when the Palestinians or Palestinian agent, or armies, whatever they are, commit terrorist acts and convince the Israeli people that the peace process isn't working, they vote for a right-wing government like Sharon. When the Palestinians go the other way, they vote for the a left-wing government like Barak or Rabin.
(CROSSTALK)
ZOGBY: Can we agree on something? And that is that there are problems on both sides, and that the U.S., if it played a more aggressive role at this point, could help pull the parties apart, and maybe even provide...
NADLER: I'm not sure what kind of a more aggressive role the U.S. could play at this point.
(CROSSTALK)
NADLER: I will agree there's some problems on both sides, but it's 90-10 on the Palestinian side, is the problem.
ZOGBY: How generous.
BLITZER: All right, the bottom line, though, Congressman, if the Israelis -- and you're a great supporter of Israel, Congressman Nadler -- if the Israelis themselves could be helped by a more assertive U.S. intervention right now, you'd support that, wouldn't you?
NADLER: Yes, I would. But the one thing I would never support is U.S. pressure on Israel to make concessions that the democratically-elected government in Israel views as dangerous to its security.
BLITZER: All right. On that note, let me thank both of you. Congressman Jerry Nadler and Jim Zogby here, in Washington. Obviously, this debate is going to continue for some time to come.
ZOGBY: Unfortunately.
BLITZER: Unfortunately is right.
And our Web question of the day is this: who do you support in the conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians? You can vote at cnn.com/wolf. While you're there, let me know what you're thinking. Send me your comments. I'll read them. Some of them I'll even read on the air, as we do at the end of this program. That's also, by the way, where you can read my daily on-line column, at cnn.com/wolf.
And in the wake of the September 11th terror attacks, police and fire departments, hospital staff, even flight attendants, have undergone more training. Today, those who trained some of them are taking part in a simulated terrorist attack in the Nevada desert. Our national correspondent Frank Buckley is there and joins us live.
Frank, tell us what we're seeing.
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, we're at the Nevada test site that is best known, of course, for the nuclear detonations during the Cold War. What we are seeing now is a demonstration of how this facility is being used in America's current war, against terrorism.
What is happening here right now is a scenario, a demonstration that is being conducted for the benefit of Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge, who is standing nearby here, who has been watching what's been going on. What we're seeing right now is the evacuation of hostages, that has taken place after this facility, which is, under this scenario, a nuclear processing facility, has had some detonations after terrorists took over the facility.
We can show you the beginning of the exercise that we have on tape, in which they actually detonated the -- what were mock bombs, as if there were nuclear devices inside. What is happening here is the Nevada Senator Harry Reid is hoping to convince Director Ridge that this facility should become a national training center.
It is already used by some U.S. government agencies for training, but he wants to create a national center for combating terrorism here. in which first responders, especially: police, firefighters, National Guardsmen from all over the U.S., could come and get training on this kind of scenario.
In this particular case terrorists took over this nuclear processing facility and threatened to detonate an improvised nuclear device, and a radiological dispersal device -- that's known as a dirty bomb, in which a bomb is detonated and disperses radiological agents into the air. So that's the scenario that's going on here. The hope is, by Senator Reid, that he can convince Director Ridge that perhaps more resources can be directed here for a nationwide effort to have this kind of center here in Nevada -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Frank Buckley in Nevada. And to our viewers, what you saw, of course, was just an exercise, just a test. It was by no means the real thing. Frank, thanks again for that report.
And they offer a chilling account of an American Airlines crash, but do the air traffic control tapes tell investigators anything new? We'll read into the just-released recording.
And, rejected at the airport: why a surprising number of people were not allowed to board a flight. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Today's release of control tower audiotapes from the crash of American Airlines flight 587 last November is opening a window into the world that we usually never see: the inside of an air traffic control room at the moment when something goes tragically wrong.
Flight 587 took off from JFK airport November 12th, headed to the Dominican Republic. Within minutes, the plane crashed into a neighborhood in Queens, killing 260 people aboard, and five others on the ground. Former NTSB chairman Bob Francis joins me now with more on those tapes and the crash investigation.
Bob, thanks for joining us. Let's play a couple excerpts and get your analysis of what they may or may not tell us about this crash. Here's the first one we created. Listen to this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look to the south. There's an aircraft crashing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Say again?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An aircraft just crashed just south of the field.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An aircraft crashed south of the field?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you see that fireball?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, thank you, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not quite sure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stand by, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: American 587?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Negative.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mickey, you missing any departures?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: American 587?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Got a PD4 teams. We're trying to figure it out now, so we're trying to see if we're missing any aircraft. Stand by.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BLITZER: All right. That's pretty horrifying stuff. But what do you -- you've studied this for years. What do you make of it?
BOB FRANCIS, FMR. NTSB CHAIRMAN: Well, I think it's not clear what frequencies those aircraft were on when they were reporting in the fact that they had seen an accident or they had seen a fireball. So it may well be that some of those reports were going into the previous frequency that American had gone off of. There are basically three frequencies that they go through.
(CROSSTALK)
FRANCIS: One is local, gives them the take-off clearance, keeps them until they get in the air, and then says contact departure. Departure then takes them and, in this case, when they called departure they said American 587, 5,000 -- climbing to 5,000. The departure controller then said, as I understand it, American 587 cleared to 1-3,000, 13,000.
Then there was a 10-second or so delay. And departure control said to American, "American, turn left. Direct wavy," which is an intersection. And so -- and that was the last until, as you saw here, the departure controller tried to call American and didn't get an answer.
Now, I think that probably a good deal of what we saw on there was reports into the local controller from other planes. Maybe some of the calls were on departure. But the point is that what you heard from American was very, very standard, and there was nothing to indicate any problem there.
BLITZER: Let's listen to another excerpt, and we'll get your analysis of what this one may mean. Let's listen to this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: American 686, that's smoke that you see. Where is it right now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, it's about 5 miles behind us. Looks like it's right off to the left of the approach end of the runway. But all the way on the southern portion of Long Island, right where the shoreline is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, so is it in the water or on the land? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's on the land, and it's a huge fire. A tremendous amount of black smoke.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BLITZER: All right, so what do you make from that?
FRANCIS: Well, I think it's the same thing. I mean, you've got different pilots, different aircraft, that are reporting in different things. And that is potentially of some value to the investigators. I mean, they will be doing very careful second-by-second look at this and see where exactly those aircraft were when they saw it. And obviously one would hope that maybe some of the pilots, in fact, saw what happened to the aircraft before the fire. Because after the fire it's not that valuable.
BLITZER: But because we didn't hear certain things coming from that doomed American Airlines flight, we -- the investigators can eliminate some causes for the crash, right?
FRANCIS: Yes. I mean, they clearly -- if they have time, if something is going wrong and there's smoke in the cockpit, or whatever it is, they probably are going to report to the controller, you know, and say we've got a problem here, we'd like to come back, or whatever it is.
But, in this case, there was no call from them, which means, usually, that something happens very quickly and that their concern is controlling the airplane. And they don't have time to call anybody about anything.
BLITZER: So, the bottom line, this is incremental help, but not necessarily decisive, and the investigation will continue?
FRANCIS: Absolutely.
BLITZER: Bob Francis, formerly of the NTSB, the National Transportation Safety Board, thanks for joining us.
FRANCIS: Thanks.
BLITZER: Thank you.
And let's check some other stories on today's "Newswire": The FBI has released 31 passengers who were on their way to Yemen from New York. Officials stopped them yesterday and questioned them about their visas and other documents. Their names were also run through a computer containing a list of known terrorists. Each name came back negative.
Graphic photographs and videos of five young children drowned in the bathtub by their mother, they were offered today as evidence by the prosecution in the trial of Andrea Yates. Her defense team says she was insane when she killed her children.
"A big clown": That's how the woman who raised one of the dogs that killed Diane Whipple describes the animal. Janet Coumbs took the stand for a second day at the Los Angeles trial of the couple accused of manslaughter. Prosecutors say the owners ignored repeated complaints about the two dogs and were proud that their dogs scared the neighborhood.
The Supreme Court is taking a closer look at executions of mentally retarded, questioning whether it's time to declare them unconstitutional. The case involves the death sentence of a man whose I.Q. was 59. More than 3,700 death row inmates across the country possibly would be affected by a Supreme Court decision.
Also on the docket today: a landmark school voucher case that tests the constitutionality of using tax dollars to pay for tuition at religious schools. It's a case that could have profound impact on the education system across the nation.
And, as CNN's Kathy Slobogin reports, there are strong feelings on both sides.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) '
CROWD: No more vouchers. No more vouchers.
KATHY SLOBOGIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Today was high noon for one of the most controversial school reforms.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do we want?
CROWD: School choice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When do we want it?
CROWD: Now.
SLOBOGIN: School vouchers paid for by taxpayers to send poor children to private schools. The Supreme Court took up the case of Cleveland, Ohio, for more than 95 percent of the students in the voucher program go to religious schools. That is because few nonreligious private schools participate in the program or have tuitions that are low enough to be covered by the state voucher.
Voucher opponents have charged the program violates the First Amendment establishment clause, which bars government support for religious institutions. At the Supreme Court, lawyers for the Ohio program argue that parents, not the government, choose to use their vouchers at religious schools, and that Cleveland offers parents other nonreligious choices in its magnet and charter schools.
KEN STARR, ATTORNEY: Isn't that what this country stands for: the idea of freedom and educational opportunity? Why would people oppose the right of parents to choose for their child? Why? Why?
SLOBOGIN: Opposing lawyers argued the other schools available to Cleveland parents are in the public school system, that the only real choice the taxpayer-funded vouchers offer parents is a religious school. HOLLYN NOLLMAN, BAPTIST JOINT COMMITTEE: The question is whether the state can subsidize religious indoctrination in parochial schools. In our view, the Constitution forbids such funding. The First Amendment should not be sacrificed in the name of education reform.
SLOBOGIN: What the Supreme Court is not considering is whether the Cleveland voucher program actually works. The original idea was to give poor students in Cleveland public schools a better education. But evaluators compared the academic performance of voucher children to those in public schools over the first three years found virtually no difference.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does anyone know what the first commandment is?
SLOBOGIN: Voucher parents seem to embrace the moral values their children learn in religious schools. But public school advocates say the program drains money from already struggling inner city schools.
(on camera): While those issues may be the real ones for parents in Cleveland and elsewhere, it is the contentious church-state debate before the court that will the determine the future of the voucher movement.
Kathy Slobogin, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And imagine yourself traveling overseas and taken hostage by terrorists. How far will the U.S. government go to get you released? Find out about a possible change in U.S. policy just ahead. And later: A third-generation Olympian learns if he is gold medal material.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: There is late word now of another possible shift in the way the United States government handles hostage-takers.
With the latest, here is our State Department correspondent, Andrea Koppel. She joins us live -- Andrea.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it actually is a major policy reversal by the Bush administration. Today, the policy was announced, saying, essentially, that the U.S. is leaving the door open to paying ransom to kidnappers for American hostages.
Previously, the U.S. government had said, had actually ruled out ever paying for the freedom of an American hostage. But now it's leaving the door open. It's also saying -- and the language is actually very cleverly worded -- but what it is saying is, they are going to get the money back. So, once the hostage has been released, in the words of one official: "We are going to get you. We're not going to walk away." They are going to get that money back. This is something that has actually been in the works for a number of months now. It has nothing to do with the Danny Pearl case in Pakistan. It actually dates back to October 2000, when there were four American oil workers who were taken hostage in Ecuador. The company paid about $13 million to get them back. And, Wolf, the U.S. government, along with Ecuadorian officials and some Colombian officials, tracked down the kidnappers and got the money back.
This is before this policy has been changed. And so the philosophy now of the Bush administration is, it worked in Ecuador. Let's try it again in the future.
BLITZER: And so the whole notion that, for years and years, successive U.S. administrations have adhered to no negotiations with terrorists or kidnappers, no concessions to them, in this particular case, what you are reporting now, Andrea, does represent a significant shift.
KOPPEL: It does.
Now, obviously, this is the last choice, the last option that the U.S. government would want to take. They are also saying, if a U.S. company is asked for money, that they should try to do everything but pay it. But they are finally -- and this really is -- this is quite a significant step, Wolf -- leaving the door open to paying money for an American hostage, any American hostage, not just a U.S. government official.
BLITZER: A more aggressive U.S. government stance in dealing with American citizens kidnapped around the world.
Andrea Koppel, thanks for breaking that story on this program. And I'm sure we are only beginning to hear the beginning of what is obviously a significant change in U.S. policy. Thank you very much.
And when we come back: The estate of a former NBA star is now a crime scene. Coming up: details of the homeowner and the homicide. And, later: Are vaccines safe for your children? Researchers believe they have the answer. We will share that answer with you coming up.
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BLITZER: Checking these stories making news around the world: Colombia's president is suspending peace talks with leftists rebels after the kidnapping of a Liberal Party senator. It started as a hijacking. More than 30 people were on the plane, which was taken over by members of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia. The president has already recalled a team that's been negotiating with rebels for the past three years.
At least 373 people are dead after a passenger train caught fire south of Cairo in Egypt. Workers are going through each car pulling out charred remains. Authorities say the fire started near the back of the train. They are looking for the cause of the blaze.
Children who went to school near the World Trade Center are visiting Berlin today, invited by the German chancellor, Gerhard Schroeder. The 25 students are the first of a thousand asked to visit Germany as a sign of solidarity with the United States following the September 11 attacks.
And just ahead here: addressing health concerns about vaccinating your kids; and the golden ride for a third-generation Olympian. We're live from the Winter Games next.
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BLITZER: Another emotion-filled day at the Winter Games, especially for American and Norwegian Olympians.
Here to fill us in on all the excitement from Utah, CNN's Sports Illustrated correspondent John Giannone -- John.
JOHN GIANNONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf.
Yes, skeleton was reintroduced to the Olympics for the first time in more than a half century. And make no bones about it. It was a golden day for the United States. Jim Shea, third-generation Olympian in U.S. history, won the gold medal in the men's skeleton event by less than a tenth of a second. Now, Shea, you might remember, lost his grandfather, a 1932 Olympic speedskating gold medalist, in an auto accident last month. The younger Shea carried his grandfather's funeral card inside his patriotic helmet during the gold-medal run.
On the women's side, Tristan Gale, her hair streaked red, white and blue, streaked to a surprising gold in that event. Lea Ann Parsley, the Ohio firefighter who helped carry the World Trade Center flag into the opening ceremonies, won the silver medal.
Now, in the women's 1,500-meter speedskating event, Miami native Jennifer Rodriguez won the bronze medal. That's her second bronze medal of these Games. So here is the current medal stand for the United States: 25 total medals. Eight of them are gold.
The single elimination part of the hockey tournament began this afternoon. The United States will take on Germany tonight. And there has been some give-and-take between the coaches in recent days. The German coach on Monday said: "I don't mind facing the U.S. In fact, I look forward to it." U.S. coach Herb Brooks responded by saying -- quote -- "Maybe that's why Germany lost World War II." Canada will take on a resurgent Finland team. Two finals already in from today: In the shocker of the tournament, Belarus beat previously unbeaten Sweden. And, also, the Czech Republic, the defending Olympic champions, they are out. They lost 1-0 to Russia.
Apolo Ohno, the American short track speedskater, will try to get back on track tonight in the 1,500-meter short track event. He, of course, will try to put behind him the six stitches in his left leg and also memories of that horrible spill from Sunday night, a race in which he ended up winning the silver medal.
From a snowy and blustery Park City, Utah, I'm John Giannone -- Wolf, back to you. BLITZER: Thank you very much, John.
Now let's check some other stories on today's "Newswire": Former baseball star Dwight Gooden is out of jail after posting a $500 bond. He was arrested overnight in Tampa, Florida for drunken driving. Gooden, who pitched for the New York Yankees and the Mets, was suspended from baseball in 1994 and 1995 for using cocaine.
In New Jersey, a medical examiner has ruled the shooting death of a chauffeur a homicide. Costas Christofi died Thursday in the home of former NBA player Jayson Williams. Police say 12 people were there at the time and all have been questioned. The investigation continues.
John Glenn says it feels more like 40 days than the 40 years it's been since his historic flight. On February 20, 1962, Glenn became the first American to orbit the Earth. His three-orbit, five-hour mission put the U.S. back into the space race with the Soviets, lifting the nation's spirits.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN GLENN, FORMER U.S. ASTRONAUT: I think people felt that we were really on the way back. And there was sort of an outpouring. The national feeling and the national mood sort of changed, I guess, the way the sociologists have analyzed it since then. And we were sort of inundated with all this attention when we got back. It wasn't something we really expected.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: John Glenn, a true American hero. Thank you.
And shifting focus now to health issues: Many parents of infants and toddlers are questioning whether the extensive regimen of immunizations their children get could be making them sick, not keeping them well.
Our medical correspondent Rhonda Rowland joins us now live with details.
Rhonda, first of all, the current, as you know, immunization schedule calls for infants to get about 20 shots, by the time they hit the age of 2, for 11 different diseases. But what about the concerns that parents have about all these shots, the health risks from them?
RHONDA ROWLAND, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, what you said is exactly right.
These children are getting so many shots. And, for anyone out there who is my age, when we were small, we only had five different vaccines. So parents today are very concerned about what all these shots are doing to their children's immune system. But there is reassuring information out today from a new report that says that parents do not have to be concerned.
They looked at some specific immune-system diseases, like type I Diabetes, asthma, pneumonia, meningitis. And what the report showed is, there was not an increase in juvenile diabetes or any of these other infections. However, when it comes to asthma, the report was inconclusive.
And what this means is that there was no evidence that the shots increased the risk of asthma or decreased it. So this suggests that maybe, in this area, there needs to be a little bit more study. But, Wolf, overall, parents should be reassured, because the benefits of these shots are still far outweighing any of these risks or any of these concerns.
BLITZER: Now, Rhonda, as you know, some parents believe very strongly that vaccines could lead to autism. Is there anything new on that front?
ROWLAND: There is nothing new. But that is still a big concern. Even though there was report, a big report that came out last year, finding no conclusive evidence that the MRR vaccine, which protects against measles, mumps and rubella, is linked to autism, a lot of parents are still concerned. And this is an especially big concern in Great Britain right now, where hundreds of parents are refusing to get their children immunized.
And they even asked Tony Blair if he has immunized his child. So this is a concern. There is still no evidence. And, once again, these are deadly diseases that you can prevent your child from getting by getting these vaccines.
BLITZER: Finally, Rhonda, as you know, the shortages in the flu vaccines, there have been shortages over the past few years, even some delays this year. What's the outlook, your experts are telling you, for the next flu season?
ROWLAND: Well, that's right. In the past two years, there have been shortages. There have been delays. So they are looking ahead to this flu season. And what they are suggesting is, young children between the ages of 6 and 2 years also be encouraged to get the vaccine, that the parents go in and get their child those shots. So, Wolf, those parents should maybe get that on their calendar now for October, because small children need two shots, one month apart.
BLITZER: Rhonda Rowland, our medical correspondent, always, always giving us useful information, thank you very much.
And today's poll question result and your e-mail when we come back. Stay with us.
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BLITZER: Let's go to New York now and get a preview of "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE." That, of course, begins right at the top of the hour. And Lou Dobbs is standing by to tell us what he's got -- Lou.
LOU DOBBS, "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE": Wolf, thank you.
A spectacular rally on Wall Street today. I will be talking with Vince Farrell about the direction of this market. Also, a dry spell hitting much of the Eastern Coast, it may become a full-blown drought. We will tell you about what is likely to be the worst drought in decades. And, despite a brutal retail environment, Martha Stewart's company meeting estimates -- she will be among my guests this evening.
Please join us for all of that and a lot more coming up at the top of the hour. Now back to Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Lou.
And today's poll question was this: "Who do you support in the conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians?" So far, 46 percent of you say the Israelis; 10 percent say the Palestinians; 9 percent say both; 39 percent say neither. Remember, this is not a scientific poll. We will have another poll question tomorrow at my Web site: CNN.com/Wolf.
And time now to hear from you.
Chuck from Indiana shares his memories of the Korean demilitarized zone. He wrote us this: "He said, Wolf, I understand the eerie silence that you spoke of in your report on the DMZ. I was serving in the United States Air Force during a tour in South Korea from 1995 to 1996. I found myself somewhat intimidated, as the look upon their faces appeared stern and bold. Here I was, face to face with the enemy."
And Rich from Connecticut wrote us this. He said: "I would still like to know why, after 50 years, we haven't been able to train 40,000 South Korean troops to defend their border."
And Phil from Iowa has this comment: "It's sad to see that we need a Tyson fight to get our nation's capital on its feet financially. It sends a hell of a message to the world: Boxing, corruption and politics, three of a kind."
Remember, you can give me your views, your opinions. Go to my Web site: CNN.com/Wolf.
And I will be back in one hour with much more here in the CNN "War Room." Among my guests: the former CIA director, James Woolsey. That's at 7:00 p.m. Eastern, 4:00 Pacific. We'll also go to our correspondents live in Afghanistan for the latest on the war.
And don't forget tonight's palindrome moment. At 8:02 p.m., which, on the 24-hour clock, would be 20:02, February 20, 02/20 that is, 2002. And, remember, it is all the same forward and backward. That is what a palindrome is, the same forward and backward. That's today, a palindrome moment.
Thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" begins right now.
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