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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
U.S. Suffers Heaviest Casualties of the War; Israeli Warplanes and Tanks on Offensive Again
Aired March 04, 2002 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Now on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: the heaviest U.S. combat casualties of the war.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I deeply regret that a number of U.S. servicemen and several Afghan fighters assisting us have been killed in action.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Is al Qaeda making a comeback?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REAR ADM. JOHN STUFFLEBEEM, JOINT STAFF DEPUTY OPS. DIRECTOR: They're well dug in, well reinforced, and apparently have lots of weapons.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Airline security -- help is on the way. But will the skies be safer? And in the Middle East, a soaring death toll. Fierce Israeli reprisals after a weekend of devastating Palestinian attacks. I sit down with Egypt's President Hosni Mubarak and hear about his unexpected new proposal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOSNI MUBARAK, PRESIDENT OF EGYPT: Let us give the people some hope that peace could prevail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Topping our news alert: U.S. troops suffer their deadliest battle in Afghanistan.
Based on early reports from the battlefield, U.S. officials say at least eight American troops have been killed in heavy fighting in the mountains of eastern Afghanistan. The U.S.-led offensive was launched Friday against well-armed al Qaeda and Taliban forces. We'll have much more on this in a moment. The Defense Department has released the name of one of the Americans killed in the fighting in Afghanistan. He's Army chief warrant officer, Stanley Harriman. Harriman was killed by enemy fire Saturday. He was assigned to the third special forces group at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. Harriman was 34.
President Bush says he is saddened by the deaths of the Americans killed in the latest Afghan fighting, but he vowed to continue the war against al Qaeda until the terror network is defeated. The president's comments came during remarks at a high school in Minnesota.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think anytime somebody loses their life, the American people mourn, are sad. And I feel that way, too. On the other hand, I am just as determined now as I was a week ago, or three months ago, to fulfill this mission. And that is, to make sure our country is safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: In the Middle East, Israeli warplanes and tanks are on the offensive again. Late today, Israeli jets struck Palestinian security facilities in Bethlehem. Israeli helicopters also targeted Palestinian security headquarters in Ramallah, near Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat's compound. Arafat was not hurt. In all, 16 Palestinians were killed in retaliatory raids.
Over the weekend, 22 Israelis were killed in Palestinian attacks.
More now on the heavy fighting in the mountains of eastern Afghanistan. At least eight American troops have been killed in fighting against al Qaeda and Taliban forces since Operation Anaconda was launched Friday. Our military affairs correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, is covering all these late-breaking developments. He joins us now from the Pentagon with more -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it's been called Operation Anaconda after the tropical snake that kills its prey by crushing it in its coils. And the U.S. military has now encircled an area where they say between up to about 400 or so al Qaeda are believed to be holed up. And the U.S. forces are said to be in the lead, with Afghan forces in blocking positions.
Today Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said the U.S. would do whatever it takes to take out those al Qaeda forces.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: We intend to continue the operation until those al Qaeda and Taliban who remain are either surrendered or killed. The choice is theirs. We have ground forces in position to check any large scale effort to escape. And we will continue to add pressure until they have been taken care of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: The operation is going on in what's called the Shahi Kot (ph) area, just south of Gardez. This Pentagon map shows the area of operations about 60 to 70 miles. It's a very mountainous region, elevations ranging between 8,000 and 12,000 feet. The temperature is cold. It's getting down to between 15 and 20 degrees, occasionally some sleet. That is pushing some of the U.S. helicopters to their limits in operating in that area.
But the U.S. says it has been very successful in inflicting casualties on the enemy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GENERAL TOM FRANKS, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND COMMANDER: I would say at this point, there have been between 100-200 al Qaeda and enemy soldiers killed in this fight up to this point. That number may turn out to be dramatically higher. The number may turn out to be a little bit lower. But the evidence that I've seen has indicated that forces on the ground have done a hell of a job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: Now, the U.S. is taking casualties as well. One special operations soldier killed on Saturday. Then today, at least seven killed in a second incident, in which a helicopter was landing a reconnaissance team, putting it into an area where there was hostile fire. At this point the Pentagon can't say if the deaths came from the hard landing of the helicopter or from the fire on the ground. Although it's believed that the fire on the ground was the main cause.
Also, another person in a separate incident killed when a helicopter took fire as it was on the ground. It took off quickly. Apparently the one soldier who was killed there either fell out of the helicopter or was hit by ground fire, causing him to fall out of the helicopter -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon, thank you very much for that report. And as we just mentioned, two U.S. helicopters were hit by enemy fire during the fighting in the Paktia province. Joining us with his insight on these helicopters and their use in this latest battle is our military analyst, retired Air Force Major General Don Shepperd.
General Shepperd, thanks for joining us. I want to put up and show our viewers what these helicopters look like. I have a little model over here, and we'll just put it up to show it. Tell our viewers, as we focus in on this helicopter, what these missions were all about.
MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET), U.S. AIR FORCE: Yes, twin rotor refuelable helicopter. It has seats for up to 33 people. It can carry 24 litter patients. But at these high altitudes, likely much reduced, depending on how much gas it has on board and how much ammunition it's carrying.
These reportedly were inserting a reconnaissance team in the area when it came under hostile fire -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Is there a sense that these helicopters were shot down? Just mechanical problems? Hard landings? What are you hearing?
SHEPPERD: I don't think it was mechanical problems. I think General Franks has been very careful about characterizing it as whether they were shot down or had a hard landing. We're just not sure yet -- to be reported, I think, more in detail by Centcom in next 24 hours.
BLITZER: Is there a sense that the al Qaeda and Taliban fighters, who may still be out there, that they do have these stinger shoulder-fired missiles, that presumably could bring down a helicopter?
SHEPPERD: General Franks says that there are man pads in the area -- man portable air defense systems, including perhaps the stingers and other anti-aircraft missiles, such as the ASA-7. There were no reports of any of them being fired so far, but they do suspect they're in the area. So we have to be careful. Helicopters are always vulnerable because they fly at low level, Wolf.
BLITZER: Can they fly, though, at higher levels and get the job done as well?
SHEPPERD: They can, but again, any time you get in thinner air, the higher you get in any airplane, the higher you get in any helicopter, the more difficult it is, the more careful you have to be and the less weight and room for air you have available -- especially if you have to land in tight places. High altitudes are a real problem. We lost 200 of these airplanes in Vietnam, a couple in the Gulf. It's a venerable old warrior, very reliable, built by Boeing. So it's unlikely that mechanical problems brought these down. Probably gunfire.
BLITZER: Put your analyst hat on for a second. General Shepperd, is this al Qaeda's last stand in eastern Afghanistan, or can we expect more of this same?
SHEPPERD: I think you can expect more of the same. We can more U.S. casualties. You can expect more U.S. helicopter losses, as we go about the various areas of this desperately difficult and dangerous country. Cleaning up the remaining pockets that can emerge any time, Wolf. This is by no means over, or even real close to it.
BLITZER: General Shepperd, thanks for that update as usual.
And for more now on the U.S.-led military offensive in eastern Afghanistan, we go to CNN's Brian Palmer, who's covering developments from the Bagram air base.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN PALMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: On Monday at midday, the ground operation being launched by the U.S. forces and the Afghan allies ceased, so that more intense bombardment by B-52s and AC-130 gunships could begin against these dug-in positions.
Now, we've heard people ask, how could these al Qaeda and Taliban forces survive the withering bombing that has already occurred on previous occasions, during the weeks of this campaign against al Qaeda and the Taliban? I think one only has to look at that very rugged terrain.
It's been called inhospitable, it's been called almost inaccessible. And it is. But once you get in, it's very difficult to be dislodged. Brian Palmer, CNN, Kabul.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: For a closer look now at the military strategy involved in this allied offensive in eastern Afghanistan, we turn to retired Air Force General George Harrison. He's in our CNN map room in Atlanta. General Harrison, thanks for joining us.
If you take a look at the way these al Qaeda and Taliban fighters are using the terrain in eastern Afghanistan, what have you learned?
GEN. GEORGE HARRISON, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET): Well, as you examine the terrain, in looking down here at the map, you can see that this terrain does in fact favor the defense. It's very rough terrain, it's very tough areas, and it allows small units the kind of operations that al Qaeda are apparently using -- to use this terrain and use it to very great advantage. They will defend and they'll be very tough to dig out of there.
BLITZER: What kind of weapons, General, are they using to help them in this kind of terrain?
HARRISON: Well, from all indications, they have individual weapons. They are using things like AK-47s, the automatic weapons that we're used to from the Vietnam era, even. They use rocket- propelled grenades. This is very favorable territory for mines and mining. And as General Shepperd just talked to you about, they may very well have some military -- some man portable air defense systems available to them.
BLITZER: It's always easy to second-guess from the sidelines. But from what you can tell, is the U.S. military using the right strategy in going after these pockets?
HARRISON: Well, I think they are. You can either wait this operation out for a long, long time and let al Qaeda have the opportunity to reconstitute and develop a bunch of other options, or you can move in with -- as we are using in this case, with very direct, close, face-to-face operations, and figure out how to get them out of there, disrupt their communications and make sure that they can't continue to operate.
BLITZER: So how long can this battle in eastern Afghanistan, that began over the weekend, continue?
HARRISON: Well, as Don Shepperd just said, this can go on for a long, long time. This is a longer term process than a short-term process. We figured from the beginning that this was a month and years kind of operation against terrorism. and I think that that's proving to be the case, as we see it unfold in Afghanistan.
BLITZER: General Harrison, thanks for your insight. Appreciate it very much.
Our Web question of the day is this: how dangerous is Afghanistan for U.S. forces now, compared to when they first arrived? You can vote at my Web page, cnn.com/wolf. While you're there, let me know what you're thinking. There's a "click here" icon on the left side of the page. Send me your comments. I'll read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. Also, by the way, that's where you can read my daily on-line column, cnn.com/wolf.
And a new CNN-"USA Today"-Gallup poll shows most Americans think the Muslim world sees itself as being at war with the United States, and only 1/4 of Americans look favorably on Muslim nations. The poll follows last week's report of surveys showing strong disapproval of America throughout the Muslim world. Rob Sobhani, he's an adjunct professor at Georgetown University, is an expert on U.S. international policy toward the Middle East. He joins me now live.
Are you surprised, first of all, by that poll that came out last week showing basically a very unfavorable attitude towards the United States in the Muslim world?
ROB SOBHANI, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: I think, Wolf, that poll last week is reflective of 20, 30 years of state-run media in the Arab world, in the broader Muslim world, where the only information that the populations of the Muslim world have is from the governments, which are, for the most part, authoritarian systems of government. And that's the result that we see in that poll last week.
BLITZER: And if you look at this new poll, the CNN-"USA Today"- Gallup poll out today about American attitudes toward the Muslim world, it almost looks like a mirror reflection. This question -- and we'll put it up -- does the Muslim world think it is at war with the United States? Among Americans, 71 percent believe that the Muslim world at least believes it's at war with the United States, which suggests a serious problem.
SOBHANI: Absolutely, Wolf, if there is a serious divide between the United States and the broader Muslim world. Which means that we need to focus more resources and energy on bridging that gap. Because to the extent that that gap exists, it really affects our public diplomacy. It affects our foreign policy, because we need to have an effective message. And to the extent that that message is not getting through, we're going to lose the public relations battles.
BLITZER: Another question that was asked in this new CNN-"U.S.A. Today"-Gallup poll, U.S. opinion of Muslim nations. Look at these numbers. Only 24 percent have a favorable opinion, 41 percent unfavorable, 33 percent neutral. Are you surprised by those numbers?
SOBHANI: I'm not necessarily surprised, because I think after September 11th, there was a lot of hedging on the part of very many Muslim clerics in this country. And I think that hedging is reflective in those poll numbers. We have not yet to see a gathering of Muslim clerics in this country, getting on a plane, going to the region and condemning this act. And I think that's why you see the unfavorables on our side of the Atlantic.
BLITZER: In a nutshell, very tough question, but you only have a few seconds to answer it. What are the most important things that the American public must do in improving America's image in the Muslim world, and what are the most important things that Muslims must do to get a better image of the United States?
SOBHANI: I think the United States, we need to send ambassadors of goodwill -- Muslims who are Americans, who like America, who have lived the American dream -- go over there and tell them the story about America. We have a great story to tell.
The Muslims, I think the issue is more difficult. You're looking at authoritarian countries. The media there is restricted. There's a lot more time that needs to be spent on opening up those societies. That's when we'll be able to change their attitude.
BLITZER: The Muslims and the Arabs almost always say it's -- it's the result of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, U.S. support for Israel, that's why America has a negative image in the Muslim world.
SOBHANI: That's a little spillover effect. But the Muslim world does not only include the Arab world. It includes Iran, it includes Pakistan, it includes Turkey. And if you look at the poll numbers there, they're slightly different. But yes, there's a spillover effect.
But the heart of the issue is this: the Muslim world, it seems the leadership and the people, for the most part, have yet to graduate from self-pity to self-criticism. And that's really one of the key issues. They need to start looking at themselves, their own leaders, their own systems. And that's when we will hopefully see some changed attitude, positively, towards the United States.
BLITZER: OK. Rob Sobhani, always good to have you on the program. Thank you very much.
SOBHANI: Thank you.
BLITZER: By year's end, you might feel more safe flying on a plane. Coming up: how the government is going after explosives. Do they have the right strategy?
And later, a famous comedian that an airport security personnel took very seriously. Learn why they arrested him.
Also, my interview with Egypt's president and his unexpected announcement.
And assessing the smallpox threat. Encouraging signs the U.S. may be more prepared. But first, our news quiz. How long does it take for a smallpox vaccine to start protecting you? Is it several hours, several days, several weeks or several months? The answer, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. The government's transportation security administration will spend $100 million to hire a private firm to recruit 30,000 new airport security screeners. It's also considering new technologies to help enhance airport safety. Our Kathleen Koch is following the story. She joins me now live with more -- Kathleen.
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, you know the new transportation security administration, which took over airport security last month, they have a slew of deadlines bearing down on them. One of them is by mid-November they have to hire some 30, perhaps even 40,000 screeners for the nation's airports. That's why they've got this private firm now, that's going to help them get the high-quality workers they're looking for.
Today they acknowledged that they're getting some help on another sticky deadline problem that they're facing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): They have been the million-dollar quandary in aviation security: machines that screen checked bags for bombs -- machines Congress told the government to put in every airport by the end of the year. But the two approved manufacturers couldn't make the 2,200 needed, and it would cost more than $5 billion. Now the government says it's signed agreements with other suppliers.
JOHN MAGAW, TRANSPORTATION SECURITY ADMINISTRATION: We can use some of these other companies, and now these other companies are looking at how many they can build in a certain period of time.
KOCH: But they don't have much time or money, their entire budget just $2 billion. So the government is also considering cheaper technology, so-called trace detection systems used to check bags during the Olympics. Some lawmakers believe that would meet the December deadline to have explosive detection equipment in all airports.
REP. JIM OBERSTAR (D), MINNESOTA: What I envision is totally in keeping with the law, explosive detection systems, trace detection and enhanced X-Ray technology that, taken together, will speed the process of screening checked luggage.
KOCH: Even supporters caution the focus must be not just on getting technology, but making sure it works.
MICHAEL GOLDFARB, FMR. FAA CHIEF OF STAFF: The danger would be to rush technology to meet a Congressionally-imposed deadline, as opposed to designing technology to protect the public who fly every day. That has to be the goal.
KOCH: The transportation secretary says they're aware of that.
We don't want to be spending multiple billions of dollars on a machine that, technologically, may be out of date in two or three years. So again, we're trying to take a look at the big picture.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOCH: Now, getting all this equipment in place come December would mean that, for the very first time, all checked bags would truly be screened for explosives. And, Wolf, what we are hearing now is that the next issue for the transportation security administration is, once they find these threats, is determining perhaps a better way to handle them.
BLITZER: And what is on the table, in terms of a better way to handle them?
KOCH: Well, Wolf, for instance, what happened in Los Angeles today and then also last Thursday. They emptied these terminals, numerous terminals, and hundreds of passengers were delayed. There were numerous flights that were delayed. And what the TSA wants to do is find a way to compartmentalize and isolate incidents. Perhaps only evacuate one terminal, instead of the entire airport, instead of inconveniencing thousands of travelers.
They also want to start putting guards at the secure entrances and exits, so that if someone runs up a down escalator or breaches one of those entrances, that there is someone there, Wolf, who can pursue them, run after them. In the past, they couldn't leave their posts. Basically, all they could do was yell, "Stop."
BLITZER: OK. Kathleen Koch, thanks for that report.
And there are certainly big changes under way for our nation's airports. But, will they work? Joining me now from Denver is aviation consultant, Michael Boyd, from the Boyd Group, which offers airlines and airports expertise in marketing and strategic planning. Mr. Boyd, thanks once again for joining us. What do you make of these security measures that are about to go into effect right now?
MICHAEL BOYD, BOYD GROUP: Wolf, they're half-baked. Those machines they're talking about, just like the secretary of transportation kind of alluded to, they really can't do the job very well. They don't have the through put we need. The technology probably isn't the right one.
We need to move a lot faster in getting everything that goes on an airplane checked. But having messed around now for six months -- actually, since 1996 -- with the wrong technology, we're behind the curve.
BLITZER: What about these trace detection procedures? I've been at screening facilities at airports where they go ahead and they put that little brush on, to see if there's any residue. How effective it that procedure? BOYD: If you're a sloppy bomber and you have residue on the handle of the bag, you're going to get caught. But if you're very, very neat and tidy, it probably won't. We need different technologies that can screen luggage very quickly, like neutron technology. It can find what's in that bag. If there's something embarrassing in that bag, like a bomb or a bottle of Old Spice or a bottle of perfume you shouldn't be bringing home to Mama, that should be found right away.
We're not going after that technology. This computer tomography does not work very well and those machines are way too big and way too slow.
BLITZER: Some people say it's not just the technology, it's the entire screening process, including the profiling, which needs to be rethought. Is that what you think is the procedure that should go forward?
BOYD: I believe so. The thing with profiling, I mean, that's basic police work. You profile based upon the threats that you perceive. The problem we have is -- and this is why I'm against profiling right now -- is I don't think we have the people in place or the technology to avoid it turning into just racial warfare with anyone with a last name of Mohammed. I have a real problem with that.
BLITZER: I do a lot of flying, and lately, a few times, I've been stopped, so-called random security checks at the gate. And I've seen a lot of other people -- people that I wouldn't think have any problem, but just random security checks. Is that a good idea to have these random security checks? A 90-year-old grandmother, for example?
BOYD: It's totally incompetent. Ninety-year-old grandmothers, and literally, 10-month-old children, get this. That's just shooting in all directions. That's not focusing -- it's not trying to identify, anticipate, and respond and deter threats. We're not doing that. We're just shooting in all directions.
We're acting like passengers are the problem. That's not it. It's a threat out there. We're not defining threats. We're buying the wrong equipment to do it.
BLITZER: Are you encourages, though, by these new 30,000 screeners that are about to hired, presumably more qualified?
BOYD: No, I am not, because basically they're going to pay $100 million to some firm to basically hire the same people who are there today, who don't need a high school degree. And they're going to be supervised, Wolf, by the same entity, the Department of Transportation, that's been on site since, you know, the last 30 years doing it. And the problem with that is, they've know the FAA hasn't worked very well. They've known the FAA has missed deadlines. That's with a Department of Transportation. The same people are going to be in charge with a new acronym, TSA.
BLITZER: Michael Boyd, thank you for joining us.
BOYD: Thank you, sir. BLITZER: And let's check some stories on today's "Newswire." You're looking at the detonation of what authorities thought was a hand grenade. Here it is. It caused the evacuation of a terminal at Los Angeles international airport this morning. Not much of a bang there, because the grenade -- get this -- was a dummy. Federal authorities have arrested the man they say brought it to the airport in his luggage, but they haven't yet filed charges against him.
As if that weren't enough excitement, at L.A.X., during the evacuation, an American Airlines jet made an emergency landing. After losing power in one engine, flight 76 dumped its fuel over the ocean and landed safely with 87 passengers and nine crew members aboard.
And yet more aberrant airport activity. Look at this. The comedian, Kevin Meaney, faces federal felony charges after allegedly shoving a National Guard officer at a San Francisco international airport security gate yesterday. Officials say Meaney started acting up when security personnel selected his wife at random for a secondary screening.
And if you decide to put your parents in a nursing home, you wouldn't expect this to happen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was not able to reach my brother at home at about 4:00 p.m. Immediately went to nursing home and called me from there. He was alarmed at my mother's condition. Her neck was very sore and painful and she had bruises on her chin and chest, and lacerations on her right wrist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Learn why the alarm bell is ringing across America.
And later, is the United States closer to protecting you from smallpox?
And my interview with Egypt's President Hosni Mubarak, the latest player for peace in the Middle East. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Checking the top stories in our "News Alert": There was a homecoming celebration in San Diego today as hundreds of sailors returned home. The USS Peleliu, Dubuque and Comstock arrived just a few hours ago. These three ships were among the first to arrive in the waters off Pakistan during the opening days of Operation Enduring Freedom.
It was another big day on Wall Street. U.S. markets rallied today, responding to signs that the recession may be behind us. Looking to the Big Board: The Dow Jones industrial average was up 217 points. And the Nasdaq moved up 56 points.
The fighting near Gardez in Afghanistan continues. Earlier today, the Pentagon released the name of the U.S. servicemen killed in combat over the weekend. Army Chief Warrant Officer Stanley Harriman was killed Saturday during intense fighting with al Qaeda and Taliban forces. At least eight more Americans were killed today.
The hunger strike at the detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba is now in day six. U.S. officials say the Afghan detainees appear to be taking turns in their participation. At its peak, almost 200 prisoners took part in the hunger strike. But only 13 prisoners have not eaten at all since Wednesday.
In the Middle East, Israeli forces continue to build military pressure on the Palestinians. Sources say Israeli warplanes struck Palestinian security facilities in Bethlehem earlier today. And two Israeli missiles struck Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat's offices in Gaza, that according the Palestinian sources.
More on the fighting in a moment, but first look at efforts to revive the peace process: The Egyptian President, Hosni Mubarak, is in Washington this week. He is scheduled to meet with President Bush tomorrow at the White House. Earlier today, I spoke with President Mubarak about Egypt's role in the peace process.
He revealed he recently spoke by phone with the Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon, to propose a summit with Palestinian Authority President Yasser Arafat in the Southern Sinai. But during that conversation, Sharon was more interested in meeting with Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah, who has put forward his own peace plan.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HOSNI MUBARAK, EGYPTIAN PRESIDENT: He had a long talk with me on the telephone. And I told him after I sent him a message to come to Sharm-al-Sheikh. He told me, I would like to sit with you bilaterally." I told him, "I have no problem with you." There is no problem between Egypt and Israel. The main problem is the Palestinian problem and the one which is going on. Your people are affected. The Palestinians are affected.
Let us give the people some hope that peace could prevail. That is my intention at that time, to ask Arafat and Sharon to come and sit. We're not going to solve all the problems in one meeting, just as a change, to change the atmosphere, to see the people, the both of them sitting with each other. They have never met with each other. Then, after that, with the help of the United States, I think it could move forward.
He apologized, but he asked me to arrange a second meeting with Crown Prince Abdullah to understand from him the initiative. I know it is a very difficult question. So I told him, "All right, I am going just to pass by this message.
BLITZER: Did you send that message to Crown Prince Abdullah?
MUBARAK: Yes, I send the message.
BLITZER: What did he say? MUBARAK: I send the message to Crown Prince Abdullah.
BLITZER: What was his response?
MUBARAK: I just send him that Sharon said so and so. But I don't think that Crown Prince Abdullah, the country, in all the places, will be able to meet with Sharon unless there is peace.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: As this was happening, there was fighting, of course, in the Middle East. Palestinian sources say Israeli warplanes fired on Palestinian positions in Bethlehem, Gaza and Ramallah earlier today, this after a weekend of terror and violence in the region.
Our Jerusalem bureau chief, Mike Hanna, joins us now with more.
First of all, Mike, any reaction in Israel from the government of Prime Minister Sharon to what President Mubarak said to me earlier today about a summit with Sharon, Arafat and Mubarak at Sharm-Al- Sheikh in Southern Sinai?
MIKE HANNA, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF: Yes, there has been reaction, Wolf. And the initial response is not encouraging.
A spokesman for Prime Minister Ariel Sharon says that Sharon is prepared to meet President Mubarak anywhere and at any time. But, says a spokesman, until the violence ends, Ariel Sharon will not consider meeting Yasser Arafat. And the spokesman adds that Arafat cannot travel anywhere, as he remains under virtual house arrest in the West Bank city of Ramallah.
The Palestinian chief negotiator, Saeb Erekat, says that Palestinians deeply appreciate President Mubarak's efforts to achieve a cease-fire and achieve a wider-scale peace. However, says Mr. Erekat, these efforts are undermined because they are continually rejected by Prime Minister Sharon -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And what about that Israeli strike at the compound, or at least near the compound of Yasser Arafat's headquarters in Ramallah? What was that about?
HANNA: Well, this is part of a massive and ongoing campaign by Israeli military forces. And, early on tonight, there was a missile strike in Yasser Arafat's compound or very near to the compound in the West Bank city of Ramallah.
There has been a strike in this particular area of the compound before. The Palestinian leader himself was unhurt. But it is very much interpreted as another warning by Israel that it will continue to take action against Palestinian militants and also against symbols of the Palestinian Authority until the violence stops, violence that Israel says is the responsibility of the Palestinian Authority, violence, though, that the Palestinian Authority says lays at the door of Israel -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Mike Hanna, in Jerusalem, thanks for that report.
So, what should the United States be taking -- bringing to the peace table right now? What should the U.S. policy be?
Joining us now for some insight: the former national security adviser to former President Bill Clinton: Samuel Berger.
Mr. Berger, thanks for joining us.
This proposal from the Egyptian president coming on the heels of the Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah initiative, is it going to go anywhere?
SANDY BERGER, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, I think, Wolf, it is a positive gesture on the part of President Mubarak and reflects, as the crown prince's initiative earlier, the sense of desperation.
I think it is more likely to have positive results if such a meeting, if it were possible, comes out of a process which involved real security steps on the ground. And those steps, I think, are most likely to be taken if they are accomplished in the context of some kind of expectation of what the political vision would be if those steps are taken.
BLITZER: But it sounds like a vicious circle, though. The Israelis say they are not going to do anything until Arafat stops the suicide attacks, the terror strikes against Israel. He says he is stuck in his compound in Ramallah; there is a limit to what he can do, given the Israeli retaliatory strikes.
How to do you break what the State Department calls that cycle?
BERGER: I think you break that cycle, first of all, with much more aggressive American engagement at this point. Every conflict in the Middle East ultimately has required American involvement.
Second of all, I think that security steps have to come first. But they are more likely to happen if they take place in the context of a vision of a political process, an expectation of what comes after, which enables the Palestinians to do what they have to do to ramp down this violence.
I think the security steps come first, but they can't be detached from some expectation of what the political process will be in the aftermath of actually taking steps.
BLITZER: I interviewed Colin Powell, the secretary of state, recently. He said, until Arafat does more to clamp down on terrorism, there is not much General Zinni, the special U.S. envoy, or any other U.S. official can do.
BERGER: Well, this is not an easy situation, but we are sliding into an all-out war.
And military escalation here, on both sides, has not worked for the last 17 months. And we need something here to break this cycle. And I think that the time has come for the United States to put the pieces together that we have heard from Secretary Powell, from President Bush and from others: security steps first, but in the context of some vision of what the political future may bring, so that it is possible for those security steps to actually be carried out.
BLITZER: And very, very briefly, any hard feelings about Ari Fleischer's comment last week, which he later retracted, that President Clinton was at least in part responsible for this violence because of the Camp David summit that he convened at the end of his term?
BERGER: Well, Dr. Rice said very quickly that that did not reflect the views of President Bush. It was, I think, a foolish statement. Mr. Fleischer has retracted them. And we ought to be focused here not on casting blame. We ought to be focused on trying to break this very, very dangerous slide into all-out war, which is exactly where we are headed.
BLITZER: And we will see what happens at tomorrow's meeting between the president and the Egyptian president, Hosni Mubarak.
Samuel Berger, thanks for your insight.
And this note: The complete interview with the Egyptian president, Hosni Mubarak, will air tonight 7:00 p.m. Eastern, 4:00 Pacific here on CNN on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Turning now to Iraq: That country's foreign minister says he will fly to New York to meet with the United Nations to talk about weapons inspections.
Our Jane Arraf is in Baghdad. She is following this story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This could be Baghdad's last chance to avert war against Iraq. Foreign Minister Naji Sabri on a mission from President Saddam Hussein: the first talks with U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan in more than a year, aimed at ending a dangerous impasse over weapons inspections.
NAJI SABRI, IRAQI FOREIGN MINISTER: It is a dialogue.
ARRAF: Iraq's allies fear it will be more of a monologue. Diplomats say Iraq simply recited a list of grievances during a similar meeting a year ago. The talks went nowhere. But this time, with the U.S. pressing for an immediate return of weapons inspectors, the stakes are much higher.
SABRI (through translator): We hope that this round would be a serious step towards achieving what the people of Iraq deserve legally and legitimately of legitimate demands.
ARRAF: Iraq's demands: that the U.N. Security Council certifies Iraq has no weapons of mass destruction and sanctions be lifted. The U.S. demand that the Iraqi leader let U.N. weapons inspectors back in or risk the biggest attack since the Gulf War.
There is quite a lot of ground between those two positions and not much time to cover it. The Iraqi foreign minister is in New York only 36 hours before he heads to Cairo for an Arab League meeting, a lot of pressure for one day of talks, a lot riding on this plane trip.
Jane Arraf, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And if smallpox comes to the United States, how can the government protect the people? That story when we return.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Earlier, we asked, "How long does it take for a smallpox vaccine to start protecting you?" Is it several hours, several days, several weeks, or several months? The answer: several hours. Within hours of receiving the vaccine, you are protected. Other vaccines usually take weeks and multiple shots to give you full protection.
And we will know for sure soon, but nearly completed studies show the government's supply of 15 million smallpox vaccines can go a lot further.
CNN medical correspondent Rhonda Rowland joins now us from the CNN Center.
Rhonda, first of all, why is the United States, in the first place, looking into diluting this smallpox vaccine supply?
RHONDA ROWLAND, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, as you said, we just have 15 million doses.
And if -- if -- there was a biological attack where smallpox was actually released, that would not go very far. So, back in November, a study was started in St. Louis -- that was the first center -- and you are looking there at the first woman ever to receive this vaccine in the study -- to see if they could stretch it further, if they could dilute it five times and cover 75 million people or 10 times and cover 115 million people.
Apparently, the study has gone on track. It is completed. The scientists have tallied their data. And, while we have a little bit of information, we don't have complete details, because they don't want to let anyone know until they publish the data. But, Wolf, if, just say tomorrow, there was an attack, scientists have the information in hand to know how far this vaccine could go.
BLITZER: Well, I've got to ask you this follow-up question, then. Is there any indication yet how many vaccines they think they can create by diluting the existing supply?
ROWLAND: Well, very early on, they felt quite sure that they could stretch it to 75 million people, 75 million doses.
The trickier question was diluting it 10 times. And there is some indication that it works, but not as well as with diluting it five times. And, again, what we hear from some of the top researchers, it is a little bit complex, but they are very encouraged by the results. And they say this study was very successful.
BLITZER: Is the vaccine going to be offered to the general public any time soon?
ROWLAND: No, it will not. And, in fact, last fall, we understand from some doctors' offices, especially pediatricians, they were getting calls from parents asking if they could get it for their child. I even had some friends asking me that. Even once the study results are out, you will not be able to go to your doctor and get this shot.
What we understand is, the CDC has actually formed a task force to look at how they should actually distribute it. What we do know is, if there was an outbreak, the first people to get it would be the emergency responders and anybody exposed to somebody who has been exposed to the virus.
BLITZER: Rhonda Rowland, thanks, as usual. Appreciate it very much.
And when we come back: a reason why your relatives may not be safe at all in nursing homes -- just ahead: a major investigation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
A congressional investigation shows nursing home staff members across the United States have been escaping prosecution after beating and sexually abusing patients. The disturbing news was presented today at a hearing convened by the Senate Special Committee on Aging.
CNN medical correspondent Rea Blakey has been covering the hearing. She joins us now live.
This is shocking stuff, Rea.
REA BLAKEY, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: One particular story that is extremely graphic -- and we just want to share with you that this actually is one of those circumstances that does not occur every time. And, generally, 2 percent of the cases in nursing homes are this extreme.
But, nonetheless, it's the story of Helen Love, who was a woman who, on her deathbed, said, "I'm no fraidy-cat." But there is one thing that Helen told her family she did fear. And that was the possibility of being neglected in a nursing home, just languishing there with no one assisting her.
Unfortunately, Helen was actually the recipient of a lethal dose of very negative attention. A nurse's aide assaulted her so extremely that she died two days after this deposition you are about to hear in which, basically, her neck was broken and she was, basically, incapacitated.
And so here are the words of Helen Love about what happened to her.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HELEN LOVE, NURSING HOME RESIDENT: He choked me. And he went and broke my neck and broke my wrists.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was he always nasty to you?
LOVE: No. He was pretty good. He really got mad because I had asked him if he could change my -- because of the diarrhea.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLAKEY: Her speech a little slurred there, but, again, the attendant became angered because she asked him to change her diaper when she experienced diarrhea.
Helen wanted her story to be told. And she wanted her sons to tell someone who could make a difference, someone who could help. And one of her sons, Bruce Love, testified today before that Special Committee on Aging at the Senate. Basically, he was keeping a promise to his mom.
And what he wanted authorities to know was that, even though this is an extreme case, there are many things about their circumstance that are very common when it comes to institutional elder abuse: the inability sometimes to get authorities at nursing homes to report information; to help the family find out what went wrong. In their case, they basically had to extricate their mom from the home because the nursing home authorities did not want her to leave. They wanted to cover up the circumstance.
Here is Bruce Love testifying before the Senate today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRUCE LOVE, SON OF NURSING HOME RESIDENT: Prior to my mother's death, the offender had pleaded not guilty to the charge of assault and elder abuse. After my mother's death, he immediately changed his plea to guilty of elder abuse in order to avoid the manslaughter charges.
If I could add another point where I was very frustrated with this was, his people beat us to the district attorney's office. And they had a plea bargain before we could even get the rest of our information there. So the district attorney's office did not help us.
He spent one year in a Sacramento County jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BLAKEY: That individual also had prior information in his file that he had threatened people in nursing homes before, Wolf. And so the family is very concerned that more background checks be done more efficiently, and that there be a universal system not only within the states, but federally, to consider what constitutes federal elder abuse and to also make certain that there are strongly enforceable laws so that this kind of circumstance does not get repeated.
BLITZER: We hope.
Rea Blakey, thanks for that report -- shocking, but thank you.
And let's go to New York now and get a preview of "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE." That begins right at the top of the hour -- Lou.
LOU DOBBS, "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE": Wolf, thank you very much.
This the deadliest day yet in the war against terrorism in Afghanistan: I will be talking with CNN military analyst General David Grange. We will also hear from Israeli Ambassador Alon Pinkas about today's attacks on Yasser Arafat's headquarters and the ongoing spiraling violence in the Middle East. And today, we will tell you about another triple-digit rally on Wall Street. We will have all of that, a lot more at the top of the hour.
Please join us -- Wolf.
BLITZER: We certainly will. Lou Dobbs, thank you very much.
And when we return, the results of our web poll: "How dangerous is Afghanistan for U.S. forces now compared to when they first arrived?"
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Now the results of our "Web Question of the Day: "How dangerous is Afghanistan for U.S. forces now compared to when they first arrived?" Just over half of you said it was just as dangerous. A reminder: Our poll is not, repeat, not scientific.
And time now to hear from you. Many of you had comments on the war on terrorism.
Chuck writes this: "Wolf, the support is there for the war. Let's make sure that we are allocating the proper resources to get the job done. It seems, from an outsider's view, that we may not have enough troops and equipment to complete the job."
Ellie says: "Let me get this straight. Senate Daschle wants Congress to be consulted about how the president is running the war. He has got to be kidding. By the time Congress agreed on anything, our military would be retired members of the Veterans Association."
But Nick (ph) has a very different view: "Senator Daschle needs to be applauded for finally questioning this administration publicly. Daschle isn't saying anything to threaten national security or troops in the field" -- that from Nick.
I will be back in one hour with more coverage. I'll speak with the Egyptian president, Hosni Mubarak, about the escalating violence between the Israelis and Palestinians.
Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" begins right now.
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